Kos vs. Ford

August 13, 2007

Meet the Press offered one of the more compelling line-ups in a while yesterday morning, with the “debate” between Daily Kos’ Markos Moulitsas and Democratic Leadership Council Chairman Harold Ford, Jr. You’d think, given recent history, that there is no love lost between the two, and a high-profile confrontation on national television could lead to some fireworks.

That didn’t happen. It was a fascinating, substantive discussion about the future of the party, but the interaction was about improving Democrats’ electoral prospects, not drawing blood. (You can watch the video of the discussion online here or here.)

Ed Kilgore, who used to work for the DLC, offered this take, which I largely agree with.

The much-anticipated face-off between DLC chairman Harold Ford, Jr. and DailyKos founder Markos Moulitsas on Meet the Press happened this morning. And it wasn’t quite the slugfest most people expected. Ford nicely undercut the netroots-demonizing reputation of the DLC by repeatedly praising the importance of the netroots to recent Democratic successes, and pledging to attend next year’s Netroots Nation (nee YearlyKos) gathering. And Markos abandoned his usual DLC-is-dead line by treating Ford’s organization as representing a serious faction in the Democratic Party — and indeed, by agreeing to debate Ford in the first place. Both men made a lot of billing and cooing noises, and ended the session with a handshake.

Ford seemed anxious to smooth the waters, mentioning twice how much he respected Markos and the work that he does. Markos graciously noted that, ideally, he’d be sitting next to Senator Ford on the program, in reference to Ford’s unsuccessful campaign in Tennessee last year.

The program was definitely worth watching (or, in the case of the transcript, reading), but I wanted to highlight one serious error Ford made, which helps demonstrate some of the confusion (read: ignorance) institutional Dems have about the online community.

Shortly after Kos suggested that Ford and the DLC stop appearing on Fox News, there was this exchange:

REP. FORD: But, but, Markos, in all fairness, your site has posted awful things about Jewish-Americans. Your site…

MR. MOULITSAS: That’s not true.

REP. FORD: …has offered…

MR. MOULITSAS: It’s not allowed.

REP. FORD: You—now you have a site up about…

MR. MOULITSAS: It’s not allowed.

REP. FORD: …something about Cindy Sheehan, she uses it as a—she has a heavy presence there in talking about her run against…

MR. MOULITSAS: It’s called democracy…. I don’t control hundreds of thousands of voices. You and your organization have a few dozen people. You can control that message. And you don’t need to attack Democrats.

Ford was trying to make a very cheap shot, but more importantly, he was highlighting just how little he understands about blogs. By arguing that Daily Kos features “awful things about Jewish-Americans,” Ford was implying that Markos runs some kind of anti-Semitic forum. That’s patently absurd. Daily Kos is a large community, and sometimes, people in a community will occasionally say offensive things. To besmirch Kos’ site this way, on national television, was O’Reilly-esque. If Ford doesn’t know better, he has a lot to learn.

It was an offensive remark, but I don’t want to be overly negative about the program. Ford agreed to appear at next year’s Yearly Kos (aka Netroots Nation), and the DLC apparently wants to be inside the Democratic fold, not outside.

MR. MOULITSAS: …I’m looking forward to hopefully merging factions. Everybody else in the party coalition has come together. You’re the lone holdout. I hope that’s not the case next year.

REP. FORD: We’ll be there, and I hope you are as well.

Did anyone else see it? What’d you guys think?

The DLC feels the changing winds. They want to be there next year to slow their fade into irrelevance. I hope their invitation gets lost in the tubes.

  • I loved the clarity of Kos’ comments. He didn’t shout, he wasn’t offensive, he smiled – but he made his points without ambiguity and with substance. And countered Ford CW talking points very effectively.

    Sad he wasn’t wearing his PJs though. And it would have been better if the interview had happened in his 1 room walkup so he would have been more comfortable. Smile.

    This interview just made me extremely happy. When people say they are tired of hearing about all the problems, that they want solutions, I can just tell them to look at KOS, or Benen, or TPM, or John Aravosis, or Jane Hamsher, or any of the other spokespeople from the netroots who have learned to write and speak proudly and clearly about our progressive beliefs and policies – beliefs that are shared by a clear majority of the nation. All we have to do is speak out, and force the msm to do their job and report accurately.

    And we’ll win.

  • I took this as a total hatchet job by meet the press and it did not position the party well. The debate fed into the narratve that bush and the republicans have been spouting all these years. Is the democratic party medium liberal or really super liberal. No mention by anyone that the country agrees with the us on the war and most other issues. If we’re super duper liberal – so is the rest of the country. I wish someone had said that. By debating each other are we not divided and conquered? Ford’s on their talking about how a party has to prove itself to the voters on national security, fiscal responsibilty, ethics, etc. Is he really worried that the republicans are ahead on those criteria? I did not understand why they agreed to do it. How come there are no debates on whether the republicans have screwed eveything up in a centrist kinda way or in an extreme right-wing way?

  • I watched it online. Good exchange, I would say it was Talkingpointstalker vs. Authenticity. And authenticity won.

    “You’re the lone holdout” kind of nailed the whole thing.

    I checked dailykos.com after I saw the show to see if there was any reaction to Ford’s “anti-Semitic” attack. There was already a diary titled: “Hi. Jew here.” calling for Ford to apologize. Nice work.

  • Kos pulled the rug out from under Ford pretty early. By the time Ford grabbed for the anti-semite card, it was over. Fortunately Ford seemed to recognize this and had the good sense to drop it. Kos came out ion top in terms of setting the terms from here forward. The DLC is welcome in the tent, but it’s not their tent.

  • #3 – not necessarily. I thought a lot of our countrymen would have seen Markos for the first time and methinks would have been pleasantly surprised at the lack of “viciousness”. They would have thought, “Waitamminnit. This guy isn’t nearly as vicious as that O’Reilly guy. Let me check out his website…”

    I also think Markos took down Ford on taxes, the war etc. so I don’t think he seemed super duper liberal. Now will the MSM continue with that ‘narrative’? Maybe. Or maybe EVEN David Gregory is beginning to say things like, “Is liberal the new center”?

  • I’ve been impressed with Moulitsas lately, particularly in how he’s cast himself and his role in the upswell of political interest and activity among the citizenry. I may not always agree on issues, but he understands the dynamic and at this point in time, that may be his most useful role.

    What impressed me most about the “debate” is that it happened at all. Slowly but surely, the interests that drive the liberal (progressive?) netroots are earning a seat at the table.

  • As has been discussed on Daily Kos, the neo-cons—the folks who ginned-up, pushed for, and planned the Iraq war—are/were disproportionally Jewish. Yes, there is anger at pro-war Jews (e.g. Sen. Joe Lieberman, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Bill Kristol, Douglas Feith …). The point that has been made and understood over in the Kos community is that neo-cons Jews were a vocal and influential minority of a minority, and that many Jews–like many non-Jews–are anti-Iraq war.

  • cal Seff (#3), your point is well taken, but I think the meme of DLC v Netroots was out there in the media and public anyway, and not having this debate was not going to change that fact. Starting from that assumption, I think the debate was a Good Thing in that the differences looked smaller, calmer, and more rational than the MSM and the wingnuts have made them out to be. Besides, any block of time on a Sunday Pundit Show where we actually get two Dems (since we usually have none) is that much less time the R’s get to freely take their shots.

  • I took exception to Ford’s “anti-semitic” cheap shot and his attack, utterly baseless and bizarre, on Cindy Sheehan. to me, that says it all about the DLC and who they think they are appealilng to when they talk about representing the party. I don’t care how “reasonable” Ford was or how he praised Markos to his face–give me an honest, partisan, attack any day of pretend. I’m a jew, and I post over at daily kos and I don’t find the site anti semitic and anyone who says it is is either lying, misinformed, or determinedly lying *to* misinform. And I feel the same way about Cindy Sheehan and her posts over at Kos. I don’t agree with her most of the time but she’s a citizen entitled to fight for what she believesin. What was Ford’s point supposed to be? That she’s a commie and that the whole site looks like commies? Well, come out and make that argument directly and say you *don’t like american citizens whose viewpoints on politics and the economy are different from those of large corporations. Say it. but don’t pretend you are saying anything else.

    There’s a reason why the DLC has 350 members and the netroots has thousands–because the DLC is an elitist, corporate front that launders money and campaign contributions and candidates themselves for elections under the democratic brand. they have no more interest in actual progressivves or progressive politics than my cereal company has in actually nourishing my children. they market democrats to the masses, they don’t want the masses actually talking aback and asking for the democrats they want.

    aimai

  • It was almost like Ford was saying being anti-Lieberman (which many of us at Kos are) is the same as being anti-Jewish. So, with his reasoning, I guess that makes me anti-Black since I don’t like Ford?? By the way, I’m anti-Ford because he is anti-Gay.

  • Ford was trying to make a very cheap shot, but more importantly, he was highlighting just how little he understands about blogs. By arguing that Daily Kos features “awful things about Jewish-Americans,” Ford was implying that Markos runs some kind of anti-Semitic forum. That’s patently absurd.

    This is a terrible remark by Ford. What, do Jews vote for the Dems in proportions of around 70%? That’s more than Catholics, and only less than blacks or university professors, probably. Being a liberal is almost like being an honorary Jew. A Democrat saying this kind of specious stuff about outspoken liberals hurts the party.

  • Yeah, unfortunately, in the DLC and the Beltway Dems, pointing out that the Israelis are not the moral compass of the planet is “anti-Semitic.” Proof that Pavolovian conditioning works: Let the Israeli tail wag your dog and you ring the bell and get money. Simple enough that even politicians can understand it.

  • Terry Turner:
    Ford doesn’t know squat about DKos. If he did, he’d know that if it were up to DKos readers, Feingold would be the next President of the US. Disgust with HoJo is centered squarely at HoJo, not any insinuations he tries to make.

  • One point I haven’t seen in the comments was that Markos effectively demonstrated the difference between the Daddy party and those in the progressive blogosphere. David Gregory consistently tried to pigeonhole Kos by comparing him, in essence, to O’Reilly as being a liberal partisan who controls the message of the site. Specifically, Kos told him that he doesn’t speak for all members, but rather fosters discussion throughout the site. Rather, his site is meant to be bottom-up as opposed to the lock-step mentality on the right.

    Oh, and Harold got owned as a representative of the Democratic Lieberman Council.

  • What was more obvious to me about the “debate” was Gregory’s ignorance about participatory democracy and conservative-leaning bias. Markos was very impassioned, impressive and knowledgeable.

  • “they have no more interest in actual progressivves or progressive politics than my cereal company has in actually nourishing my children. they market democrats to the masses, they don’t want the masses actually talking aback and asking for the democrats they want.”

    best analogy yet. Thanks, aimai, btw which way to your blog? 😉

  • I was very surprised to see Ford praising Moulitsas. After what Moulitsas has said about the DLC in the past, I could not imagine any DLC-guy offering praise.

    It seems as though the netroots are winning. Recently, Hillary Clinton came to YearlyKOS and now the head of the DLC is saying wonderful things about Moulitsas.

    Smart Moulitsas did not behave as a winner on Meet the Press but as a uniter. I was wondering why he was so nice. But I see that he is trying to get ALL factions in the Democratic Party to talk to each other – so we may win.

    Hurray to ALL – liberal, conservative and in between – Kossaks!

  • The GOP wants to limit all political debate to three issues — taxes, national security and values. Per Harold Ford, the DLC is happy to oblige.

    Netroots, on the other hand, is wiilling to discuss these issues, but also has much to say about minimum wages, fair trade, environmental destruction, health care, income inequality and many more topics that Republicans prefer to avoid altogether.

    Why the DLC wants to debate Republicans exclusively on GOP turf is beyond me. If Dems offer to cut taxes, the GOP will cut them more. If we propose new military spending, they’ll spend more. If we talk about values, they’ll attempt to bully us with their narrow views — and, in the end, we just come across as Republican-lite.

    Howard Dean had it right. Progressives should ignore the DLC and stand up for progressive issues. We’ll move the center to left while bringing new voters into the fold.

  • Ford’s tactic is the oldest one in the book: take a minority and extremist group within a larger group and make it definitive of the group. It’s the same tactic Jerry Falwell used in his “homosexual agenda” bullshit: leather queens in ass-baring chaps and gyrating flamboyant trannies in a San Francisco Gay Pride parade (theater) represent the entire gay community. Hardly the case. The reason I approach this from that particular angle is that I have rather specific memories of Ford using homophobia lite (against gay marriage) as a talking point in his run for the Senate. Now it’s the few intemperate commentors on Daily Kos that are supposedly defining the entire effort there. Harold Ford is an ambitious snake with talents that are undeniable. He’s just one of the things that make me cynical about teh Democratic Party. But unlike him, I won’t let that define what I think of the party as a whole.

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