Let’s define ‘national controversy’

I have a feeling Kevin Drum might tease me again for writing this, but I can’t help myself. It’s just too annoying.

The New York Times’ Deborah Solomon chatted with notorious televangelist John Hagee this week for an interview that ran in today’s NYT Sunday magazine. Hagee, of course, is best known as a bigoted mega-church leader in Texas, whom John McCain embraced and campaigned with.

This exchange from the interview stood out for me.

Solomon: As a prominent evangelical pastor based in San Antonio, you were recently catapulted into national controversy when you endorsed Senator John McCain for president. Is it true that McCain actively sought your endorsement?

Hagee: It’s true that McCain’s campaign sought my endorsement.

Now, there’s some news value, I suppose, in Hagee’s acknowledgement, but that’s not the part that irks me.

Instead, it was the question. Solomon prefaced her question by noting that Hagee was “catapulted into national controversy.” I’m not necessarily blaming Solomon, but I don’t think that’s even remotely true. I wish Hagee had been “catapulted into national controversy,” but thanks to political reporters, including those at Solomon’s own paper, that didn’t happen.

Using Nexis and Google News, I went ahead and did another search this morning. How many of the nation’s largest daily newspapers ran stand-alone articles about McCain’s outreach to a bigoted and nutty televangelist?

Here’s the list:

Washington Post — Zero

New York Times — Zero

Los Angeles Times — Zero

Boston Globe — Zero

Chicago Tribune — Zero

USA Today — Zero

Wall Street Journal — Zero

Now, to be fair, in a couple of instances, some of these papers made brief reference to the flap in editorials or columns. More recently, a couple of the dailies ran huge stories about Barack Obama and Jeremiah Wright, and made brief reference therein to “questions” about McCain’s Hagee association.

But despite condemnations from the Speaker of the House, the chairman of the DNC, Catholic groups on the left, Catholic groups on the right, and Jewish groups, none of the major dailies ran a single article about the Republican presidential nominee cozying up to a bigoted megachurch preacher or the outrage it caused in some circles.

As such, Hagee wasn’t “catapulted into national controversy.” He should have been, but political reporters collectively decided to give him a pass, for reasons that are still unclear.

I remain agog.

Uhhh…. correct me if I’m wrong here, but I’ve never heard of San Antonio, OHIO…

  • Clinton visited the border to talk with refugees. She was not talking about arriving at the airport when she discussed dodging bullets. This is an unfair pro-Obama distortion of her remarks.

    Here is what Richard Holbroke said about Clinton’s participation in Kosovo, someone with more stature than Sinbad:

    “Concerning Kosovo, the Obama memo – citing their own advisors and supporters — falsely claims that Hillary played no role in the larger effort to open the border to more refugees. Richard Holbrooke, the architect of the Dayton Accords, lays out the facts:

    It was dire in May 1999 when Hillary Clinton arrived in Macedonia. The government of Macedonia had slowed the flow of refugees from Kosovo to a trickle. After visiting refugees and gaining a first-hand assessment of the situation, the First Lady had intense talks with President Gligorov and Prime Minister Georgievski. In these talks, one in the Presidential Palace, another in the residence of the American Ambassador, Christopher Hill, Mrs. Clinton pressed the Macedonian government to fully open the border so that Kosovar Albanian refugees could flee the war zone to safety. She also committed herself to work with the government and people of Macedonia who also faced an emergency because of the threat to their own safety and stability. Hillary Clinton promised to take action to help the Macedonian economy. Returning to Washington, she pressed hard in the administration for action to support the Macedonians. She even contacted American business executives to ensure that American textile contracts in Macedonia were not canceled. There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of those people I worked with in the Balkans at the time – that her intense efforts resulted in easing a crisis of significant dimensions and contributed to saving many lives.

    Hillary’s trip to Kosovo in May 1999 took place during the air war over Kosovo. Despite concerns about security, she traveled to the international border on the edge of the war zone, and visited with refugees. More, including more testimonials, HERE. [ visit Clinton’s website]”

  • OK, Steve – here it is, in simple words, following the Atrios Rule:

    1. Corporations own the media.

    2. Corporations like Republicans for gutting the FCC and letting them have media monopolies of papers and TV stations.

    3. McCain is a Republican.

    Thus, McCain gets a pass so long as the Tribune Corp., the Post Corp, etc., can own TV stations and newspapers in the same cities.

    I believe you can now un-agog yourself.

  • I guess Bloody Mary is back from Spring Break and still can’t figure out how to post anything relevant to the thread at hand. Further proof that those who can, do – those who can’t, teach.

  • I think it was the Rev. Parsley, (McCain’s new crazy “spiritual advisor”) not Hagee who is based in Ohio.

  • Hey, CB – OT but Glenn Greenwald just posted about Instapundit’s link to Instapunk. Start with Instanpunk’s latest post about the glory of Christ and then scroll down to Friday’s post about niggers:

    I’m not proposing the generalized use of the term, just trying to be clear for once, in the wake of Obama’s call for us to have a dialogue about race. However much they may scream and protest, black people will know what I mean when I demand they concede that the following people are niggers:

    – Jeremiah Wright
    – O.J. Simpson
    – Marion Barry
    – Alan Iverson
    – William Jefferson
    – Louis Farrakhan
    – Mike Tyson

    You know what I mean. They hold you back. They’re dirty, violent, and stupid. They make you look bad, and you foul yourselves by defending them, by reelecting them to office, by admiring them in spite of all their awful behavior.

    We can have this conversation now — should have this conversation now — because African-Americans are on the verge of the greatest setback they’ve experienced since the election of Rutherford B. Hayes. You see, you’ve just given life to the suspicion that black people in America are, and have long been, a fifth column — unanimously hating the very country that has afforded the highest standard of living ever achieved by black people in human history. We’re teetering at the edge of believing that you’re a secret society, a massive collection of sleeper cells just waiting for your chance to do serious harm to the rest of us. You’ve made it possible for us to believe that. Because you’re never outraged by what the worst black people do. Because you continue to make excuses for what should be inexcusable to everyone.

    One of the commenters has said here a couple of times that by then end of the campaign, the Republicans will be screaming “Don’t vote for the nigger!” Maybe we won’t have to wait that long.

    Happy Easter!

  • To expand a litttle on Tom C’s #3, I think it’s also worth pointing out that McBush, in addition to being a Republican who has been endorsed by TWO (count ’em) lunatic America-hating “Men of God”, is also a white man, as are his endorsers.

    Black preacher who points out that the US has been less-than-straight with people of colour for most of its history=Scary.

    White preacher who openly espouses the idea that US foreign policy should be focussed on bringing about the biblical apocalypse=Not At All Scary or Even A Teeny Bit Controversial.

    Go figure.

  • Hagee wasn’t “catapulted into national controversy.” He should have been.

    Or elsewhere.

  • Those who can, attack the message. Those who can’t, attack the speaker.

    Be a jerk if you must, Cleaver, but refute what I posted.

    The only topic here is wonderfulness of Obama. Nothing else is being discussed.

    Who cares about Hagee? No one.

  • Using Nexis and Google News,…

    I think maybe using the search of the newspapers themselves would probably yield better results. I found three at the New York Times 10 days ago, and that covers 8 days of coverage. Provided anybody is actually looking for them instead of just saying they are.

  • I think it was the Rev. Parsley, (McCain’s new crazy “spiritual advisor”) not Hagee who is based in Ohio.

    Yep, sorry ’bout that. It’s fixed.

    I found three at the New York Times 10 days ago, and that covers 8 days of coverage.

    Wrong. There have been stories that mentioned Hagee, but that’s why I was specific about the parameters. If Hagee had been “catapulted into national controversy,” there should have been at least one stand-alone article. There hasn’t been.

  • You nutjobs trying to equate McCain’s 1 hour meeting with Hagee to Wright’s 20 year mentorship of Obama just don’t get it do you? Just can’t see the difference can you?

    Let me give you a hint. McCain has a real pastor, and it’s not Hagee. Go knock yourselves out trying to pin something on him.

  • Bill Moyers’ program on PBS covered Hagee’s organization Christians United for Israel back in October 2007 and then again in early March. Many of the clips of Hagee portray him as someone far on the fringe of our political system, while plenty of mainstream politicians are seen at Hagee’s conference or sending letters in support.

  • hcnal (14) Just can’t see the difference can you?

    Obama did not ask Wright to endorse him. You ask for an endorsement when your own credence isn’t enough to reach a certain constituency. Obama asks for endorsements from Ted Kennedy, Richardson and others. Both are important because of their experience and age. What do Hagee and Parsons offer?

  • A good source of info (from a orthodox christian theological point of view) on Hagee and Parsley check out Hank Hanagraff’s work on the Prosperity Gospel.

    http://www.equip.org/site/apps/s/google_search.asp?q=Prosperity+Gospel&btnG=+&entqr=0&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&output=xml_no_dtd&c=muI1LaMNJrE&ie=ISO-8859-1&client=equip_frontend&b=2574195&ud=1&site=equip&oe=UTF-8&proxystylesheet=equip_frontend

    Both Hagee and Parsley preach this, along with other nonsense, of course.
    Now, to be sure, Hanagraff has his own set of issues (i.e.: regards contraception as a form of abortion, creationism and so on) but on matters of classical Christian Theology he’s pretty dead on. Both Hagee and Parsley are hucksters and heritical when you get right down to it. Their appeal comes from two things: Hagee’s pitch concerning how a form of Christian Eschatolgy (Premillinial Despensationalism) works out in the real world and his support for Israel; Parsley because of his staunch conservative social agenda. Both feed into the fear/bigotry of their adherents and both fleece them thru books, collection plate, CDs, credit card donations, DVD’s, tapes, and videos. Hanagraff has taken a lot of flack for calling out the Prosperity Gospel but he’s right, they’re crooks.

  • Hagee and Parsley offer nothing, and that’s the point. Wright offered Obama guidance for 20 years, and that guidance was bigoted, anti-American crap.

  • Addendum: Parsley isn’t McCain’s pastor either. Still can’t figure out the difference?

  • Thanks to #12 PeteCo for the link that gave documented evidence of Clinton’s lie. Quotes from that site below for Mary:

    Here is the Lie:

    “I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base.”
    –Hillary Clinton, speech at George Washington University, March 17, 2008.

    And note:
    “Clinton made no mention of “sniper fire” in her autobiography “Living History,” published in 2003, although she did say there were “reports of snipers” in the hills around the airport.”

    In summation:

    “Clinton’s tale of landing at Tuzla airport “under sniper fire” and then running for cover is simply not credible. Photographs and video of the arrival ceremony, combined with contemporaneous news reports, tell a very different story. Four Pinocchios.”

  • THANK YOU Mr. Cleaver @ #3 for stating the obvious. I am continually underwhelmed by those who express surprise that the MSM behaves the the way it does.

  • hcnal, JanetP et al. = foot soldiers in Operation Chaos (i.e., right-wing tools). How long will it be before we see the emergence of a group called Trinity UCC Veterans for Truth? I’m afraid we’ll be hearing about this through November and beyond.

  • hcnal said:
    You nutjobs trying to equate McCain’s 1 hour meeting with Hagee to Wright’s 20 year mentorship of Obama just don’t get it do you? Just can’t see the difference can you?

    So, if I had a 1 hr meeting with, say, Hitler, to get his endorsement (and of course stipulated I didnt support all his views;not that I would say which ones I actually disagreed on) cause ya know, his ideas appeal to a certain percentage of the constituancy I’m targeting, that would be okay; cause, like, it’s not like he was someone I knew for 20 years…would that be okay, hcnal?

  • “A politically influential figure in Ohio, Parsley could also play a key role in McCain’s effort to win this bellwether state in the general election. McCain, with Parsley by his side at the Cincinnati rally, called the evangelical minister a “spiritual guide.”

    http://www.motherjones.com/washington_dispatch/2008/03/john-mccain-rod-parsley-spiritual-guide.html

    So tell me, how is a “Pastor” different from a “Spiritual Guide” ?

    Now you can go back to Instaracist, where they are comfortable with th N-word.

    http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/03/23/race/index.html?source=rss&aim=/opinion/greenwald

    Thanks for playing, though.

  • palmbeachmaven thanks for the link to instapunk; proof positive that racism is alive and well(?). Unfortunately, I just couldn’t bring myself to finish reading that garbage..it reminded me too much of people I come into contact with everyday, one my best friend, who I call on the carpet from time to time to actually think about what she just said. If it gets the ball rolling, however, and makes someone feel better to use the n-word, then by all means. Can we then start talking about the real problems. Oh, one last thing, what in the world is wrong with words like asshole, idiot, insane, etc.; they work for everyone and every situation…

  • Ah, can always count on the righteous to bring in Hitler if they don’t have a real argument.

    Presidential candidates meet lots of people campaigning. Are you sure you want to connect Obama to everyone he ever shook hands with?

    Still can’t see the difference between a 1 hour meeting and 20 years mentorship?

  • I have a real argument, which you are ignoring. McBush’s self-described “spiritual advisor” is way more extreme than Wright.

    Doesn’t fit your little racist media generated narrative, I guess.

  • hcnal:
    OK, I’ll call your bluff. Please characterize Sen. Obama’s personal relationship with Rev. Wright and the lessons he has learned from him. Not what Obama has said their relationship and lessons learned were or what you inferred they were but the actual relationship and lessons themselves.

  • Hard to tell what a person learns in 20 years. He’s a bright guy and a very good student, I’m told. Maybe Obama could explain it instead of giving a speech that changes the subject.

  • Don’t feed the troll. He only has one talking point, and nothing you say will ever budge him off of repeating it over and over.

  • Few developments provide greater schadenfreude for liberals than division and conflict among the ranks of the American Taliban. So watching the Catholic League’s Bill Donahue burst a blood vessel over John McCain’s embrace of the endorsement of Pastor John Hagee is must-see entertainment for Democrats. But when it comes to his End Times vision of conflict with Iran, John Hagee is no laughing matter.

    For the details, see:
    “McCain, Hagee and Armageddon as Foreign Policy.”

  • I know how ill advised it is to feed the trolls but this particular fake controversy irks me so much that I feel the need to push back. Mostly because I believe this is going to be a line of attach against Obama until November and probably beyond that. I don’t care about hcnal or JanetP or any other particular troll but this guilt by association smear has to be pushed back against. So, when they assert that some sort of taint has rubbed off on Obama because of his 20 year association with Rev. Wight I ask, oh yeah? Prove it. As you see from hcnal’s response @ 32, they can’t.

  • If McCain explains what he learned in 1 hour from Hagee and Parsley, and Obama explains what he learned in 20 years from Wright, the voting public would be better off all around, don’t you think?

    Not sure you want to start linking foreign policy with pastors, have you read Wright’s Black Liberation Foreign Policy? Obama was schooled in it for 20 years, maybe he can explain it to you. Not sure McCain heard about Hagee’s in his 1 hour meeting.

  • Do people actually think Obama got foreign policy advice from Wright? When he met him, he was already an adult with a degree in International Relations from an Ivy League school. He didn’t ask Wright for help finding a good Mid East strategy, he asked him for advice on how to find God. Something which Wright is supremely qualified at doing.

    So supremely qualified, in fact, that he was present during LBJ’s surgery and President Clinton sent him a personal thank-you letter for attending a luncheon.

    Oh, and ask the white members of Trinity UC if Wright hates white people. Hint: They’re outraged at the way he’s been covered the past few weeks.

  • Shorter hcnal: “My guilt-by-association beats your actively-solicited endorsement! So there! P.S. 20 years!”

  • Do people actually think McCain got theological or foreign policy advice from Hagee or Parsley in 1 hour?

    I believe that was the original point of this post, was it not – lamenting the fact that the MSM would not hang Hagee around McCain’s neck no matter how many thousands of times you post and blog about?

  • “Do people actually think McCain got theological or foreign policy advice from Hagee or Parsely in 1 hour?”

    How you do know he didn’t? Since when is it not possible to get “theological or foreign policy advice” from someone in 1 hour?

    At least Obama 1. did not actively seek out an endorsement from Wright the way McCain did with Hagee and Parsley; and 2. has said that he disagrees with Wright’s inflammatory remarks (McCain said that he disagrees with Hagee’s anti-Catholic rhetoric, but hasn’t distanced himself from the latter’s other wackjob views. He hasn’t distanced himself from any of the crazy things Parsley, whom he calls his “spiritual guide,” has said).

    Also, let’s try a (somewhat) less inflammatory comparison than Hitler. Do you actually think that if Obama had a 1 hour meeting with, say, Farrakhan, the Republicans would not make a big deal out of it?

  • When I was about 35 yrs old, (I’m now 66) my long standing minister was being transferred to a new church in another state. I half jokingly told him I might have to change churches when he left as I really liked him and considered him to be a friend. He told me that one’s involvement in a church is about the people in it, the work and love they promote in the community and NOT about the minister. Having heard some of Wright’s OTHER sermons, they could have been given by any number of everyday ministers in any town USA that hosts multi-cultural congregations.

    My grandfather was a racist against Jews, my dad against Blacks or “oloreds”as he called them. One of my sons calls Middle Easterners “raghheads”. Do these long term relationships with these people I love prevent my involvement in the public discourse? No, I actually think it makes me a better contributor as I can see the dangers and havoc produced by such racism. It certainly did not make me a racist.

  • None of this nonsense is about race or religion, it’s about judgement, and that’s why Obama tried to change the subject to race with his speech.

    Putting someone with Wright’s ideology on your campaign staff shows what kind of judgement Obama has, and it’s up to the voters to decide if that’s important or not.

  • So you’re supporting “Mr. Bomb Bomb Iran who doesn’t know the difference between a shi’ite and a sunni” based on his good judgment? I also hear from his own lips that he doesn’t know much about the economy Brilliant choice you’re making there, he’s going to do a bang-up job making good decisions.

  • I’ll take my chances. Like I said, it’s up to the voters to decide, and the polls are looking pretty good right now that the voters know real character and judgement when they see it.

  • Wrong. There have been stories that mentioned Hagee, but that’s why I was specific about the parameters. If Hagee had been “catapulted into national controversy,” there should have been at least one stand-alone article. Fair enough. But tell me how many stories from these same newspapers chastised the entire Catholic faith and faithful for the priest scandals, when in fact it was a few priests who actually committed those criminal acts, along with some powerful members of the church hierarchy who covered it up? Was anybody in the press discussing this with Hagee at that time?

    The reason Hagee isn’t a national controversy is because too many on the left believe as he does, but with less vitriol. Now he’s convenient to bash McCain with.

  • Too many on the left believe the same as an insane ultra-rightwing preacher? What the hell are you smoking?

  • To be honest, the lack of coverage of Hagee wouldn’t be so aggravating/unbalanced if the Wright story hadn’t been so big/destructive for Obama.It truly shocks me that two virtually identical scandals for the candidates are handled so distinctively.

  • Are the trolls getting dumber?

    Obama is associated with Rev. Wright because he was a spiritual advisor who brought him to Jesus and got him involved in Christian faith. The political views of the man aren’t why Obama sought him out and the relationship wasn’t one born of politics — in fact, it predated Obama’s political career by nearly a decade.

    McCain, meanwhile, interrupted his campaign schedule to fly down to Hagee’s church and get his endorsement strictly for his political views. There was no spiritual connection, as you note, because McCain has a wholly different religious mentor for those causes. Nope, McCain sought Hagee out because he has a large political following in circles of evangelical voters, and therefore Hagee’s political views — the sole reason for the visit — are wholly valid.

    Oh, the “campaign role” that Wright had thatyou keep hyping was as a member of the committee on African American Religious Groups. Wow, that sounds like it’s just a notch below Campaign Manager on the organizational chart.

  • I don’t know if the trolls really are getting dumber, or just more desperate.

    But I’ll tell you what, every time a new one shows up here, I’m donating another $50 to the Obama campaign.

    This one’s dedicated to you, hcnal. I’m sure the Obama campaign will appreciate it.

  • None of this nonsense is about race or religion, it’s about judgement

    Well, the great thing about McCain is that he’s allowed to take both sides of every issue.

    Religious right leaders were “agents of intolerance” and now he’s only to happy to kiss their rings. The Bush tax cuts were bad and now they’re good. Major campaign finance reform and immigration reform measures bear his name, and now he’s running away from them. Iran is supporting al-Qaeda, no they’re not, wait, yes they are.

    When you pick every answer on every issue, you’re always going to be able to point to a moment when you were right.

  • “But tell me how many stories from these same newspapers chastised the entire Catholic faith and faithful for the priest scandals, when in fact it was a few priests who actually committed those criminal acts, along with some powerful members of the church hierarchy who covered it up?”

    Probably zero. I’ll concede that I was wrong if “SteveL” can point to literally one newspaper article that engaged in “chastising the entire Catholic faith and faithful for the priest scandals.” I know that defending the news media isn’t exactly popular, but when they are accused of writing articles they probably didn’t write, they should be defended, especially when not a single example is given of said articles.

    “The reason Hagee isn’t a national controversy is because too many on the left believe as he does,..”

    Even if true (and I don’t believe it is), “too many on the left” didn’t share the stage with McCain and endorse him for president. “Too many on the left” weren’t actively sought out for an endorsement by McCain. False comparison, sir.

    “Now he’s convenient to bash McCain with.”

    Yeah, because Jeremiah Wright isn’t “convenient” to “bash” Obama with.

  • Oh, how stupid, the very fact that the media reported on the priest scandals means that they were “chastising the entire Catholic faith” (I’m being sarcastic, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s how people like “SteveL” felt).

  • In my last post, I meant to write “how could I be so stupid,” not “how stupid.”

  • If Clinton confuses her border landing with Tuzla does that mean she didn’t help broker peace in Bosnia? You totally ignored may post of Holbroke’s statement about what Clinton contributed to the peace process in Bosnia.

    Why would she lie about a small, easily checked detail? When you are 60 and you confuse one memory with another, shall we all call you a deliberate liar who never tells the truth about anything, Pinocchio as she is being called on AmericaBlog?

    You people grasp at trivialities and misrepresent them as substance. The substance here is that Clinton’s claim to experience is supported by the people who were there (not Sinbad but the diplomats and key players). Portraying Clinton as someone who must lie about her contributions is the BIGGER LIE in this situation.

    How desperate is Obama’s campaign that it must distort Clinton’s genuine accomplishments this way to make her appear to be unreliable? This is another example of the ugliness you and Obama have injected into this campaign.

  • hcnal, yeah the polls are looking good because the press won’t report that McCain wouldn’t know the difference between a Sunni and a Shiite Muslim if one were pissing on him. But we have a long ways to go in this election “my friend”.

    McCain sought a political endorsement from Hagee. Obama did not seek a political endorsement from Wright. There is a difference “my friend”. McCain sought the political endorsement from a man who is ready to throw Catholics and Jews “under the bus” to use the popular parlance of the day. Hagee is willing to do this to advance his demented view of the apocalypse. Hagee thinks and welcomes the idea that McCain will attack Iran and set the Middle East on fire. He may be right, but he is insane. When McCain sought his endorsement, he bought his views, and frankly, Hagee has about 10 times the amount of crazy that Rev. Wright will ever have. Wright may have anger, but Hagee has true lunacy. Such dangerous crap should never come near a presidential contender.

  • I’d like to thank Mary for once again adding a very relevant comment to a discussion.

    That’s twice now that you’ve posted a comment in the wrong thread, Mary. It reveals not just an incompetence with the intertubes, but a contempt for the rest of us.

    I mean, could you at least try to *pretend* you’re reading what other people are posting here rather than just blindly coughing out Clinton Cultist talking points?

  • TR, @60,

    I’m sure that Mary didn’t mean any disrespect for us. I’m sure that she simply — between decompressing from the past week of “teaching” and girding her loins for the next one — has forgotten to take her meds (Prozac, antacids, whatever else is the med-du-jour)

  • The most interesting part of this debate that I think is missing, is the fact that supposedly since Wright has had 20 years of hate and fear influence on Obama that this influence has not showed up in any of Obama’s policy’s, his speeches, or his actions in pretty much all of his public career. I have not heard of this so-called hate coming out in his work as a community organizer, his time in the Illinois legislature, or as a US Senator.

    Thus to hcnal’s statement that it is about judgment, I’d have to say that Obama’s judgment appears to be pretty darn good. He is taking the positive aspects of hope and peace and not letting the negative aspects of his paster influence him – thus showing extremely good judgment.

  • McCain regulates the media through his committee seat. The media will not harm McCain in any way. Also, the corporate media is owned by corporations. Corporations will not jeopardize the lack of regulations they enjoy through republican-based laws. That’s why McCain gets a pass for everything.

  • Obama wasn’t running for the President of the United States when, at Harvard Law, he supposedly “sought out” (whatever that even means outside of the context in which TR used the term) Wright. Can’t say the same for McCain and Hagee. Get some better arguments, trolls.

  • You’re still trying to push the false argument that 1 hour on a stage is equivalent to 20 years of mentorship and a place on the campaign staff.

    The reason that the MSM hasn’t taken this bait is because it’s laughably disingenuous, and at least some of them are smarter than you dingbats, although Olberman bites at an worm, no matter how slimey.

  • “You’re still trying to push the false argument that 1 hour on a stage is equivalent to 20 years of mentorship and a place on the campaign staff.”

    Let’s put that reasoning into a little perspective: John McCain has sought out the endorsements of Hagee and Parsley (his “spiritual guide”) after they made their offensive and radical and bigoted statements. Obama had already joined Wright’s church and been “mentored” by him when the latter made his crazy remarks (his conspiracy about AIDS, his America-bashing, etc).

  • Hagee is no Rev.Wright

    Rev. Wrightly stole the headlines with his hate mongering.

    Its only one of many obstacles Obama faces in his fruitless quest for power.

  • TR… uhh, Obama sought out Wright when Obama was at Harvard Law.

    Which only supports my point all the more.

    Obama reached out to Rev. Wright in the early ’90s and renewed his faith in Christianity through the man. That’s what their relationship is all about — spiritual issues. (Or are you arguing that Obama knew that ten years later, Wright would make some heated remarks in the wake of 9/11, and that’s why he sought him out back then?)

    McCain reached out to Revs. Hagee and Parsley now — after Hagee’s inflamatory remarks about the Catholic Church being the Great Whore and all the rest, after Parsley’s call for the destruction of all Islam and his hateful anti-gay comments — with all of their hateful history on the table, and actively pursued their endorsements for the express purpose of the political campaign.

    Hagee and Parsley’s relationships with McCain are purely, crassly political, and McCain needs to be called to account for the political views he has linked himself to explicitly. Wright was first and foremost Obama’s pastor — he led him to Jesus, married him and his wife, baptized his girls, etc.– and therefore his political views aren’t the key to the relationship.

    So, yes, thank you for proving my point.

  • One thing that seems to be missing from all this “spiritual guides to the candidates” stuff is any real discussion or consideration of Clinton’s long-time association with “The Fellowship?”

    It’s not like there aren’t any articles about it, but somehow it just doesn’t seem to occur to anyone to include any analysis of it in this discussion:

  • What I find strange about this argument is that the same people who feel comfortable boiling down Obama’s 20 year membership at Trinity to 30 seconds or 5 minutes or heck, I’ll be generous, 20 minutes of “offensive” sermon snippets out of what must have been hundreds, if not thousands, of minutes of Wright’s sermons suddenly see an hour as an insignificant amount of time (at least in respect to McCain).

  • danielrotter said, “Let’s put that reasoning into a little perspective: John McCain has sought out the endorsements of Hagee and Parsley (his “spiritual guide”) after they made their offensive and radical and bigoted statements. Obama had already joined Wright’s church and been “mentored” by him when the latter made his crazy remarks”

    The problem with your “little perspective” is that Obama put Wright on his campaign staff after he knew of his crazy remarks, which can only be seen as an unqualified endorsement of those crazy remarks. Obama thought those crazy remarks were ok for 20 years.

    Your “perspective” also includes one outright falshood, in that McCain called Parsley “A spiritual guide” not “His spiritual guide.”

    McCains spiritual advisor of 15 years is here, and it’s not Hagee or Parsley…
    http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed7/idUSN2043191420080322

  • Here’s the money graf from hcnal’s link:

    “That puts Yeary, who heads the church attended for the past 15 years by the Republican presidential candidate firmly in the U.S. Southern Baptist mainstream, and in line with the Republican Party.”

    I’ve lived in Texas for over 40 years and am intimately familiar with “the U.S. Southern Baptist mainstream,” and if you consider this a positive endorsement, I have zero respect for your political opinions. The “mainstream” of this movement, judging from the leadership of the SBC, consists mostly of anti-science bigots who believe the world is 6,000 years old and that Adam and Eve walked with the dinosaurs. People that profoundly ignorant have absolutely no business influencing national policy.

  • “…Obama put Wright on his campaign staff after he knew of his crazy remarks, which can only been seen as an unqualified endorsement of those crazy remarks. Obama thought those crazy remarks were Ok for 20 years.”

    There’s no evidence that Obama knew of Wright’s crazy remarks when the former put the latter on his campaign staff, especially considering that at least one of them did not even take place in his church ( Wright made his ridiculous comments about AIDS at Howard University). Conversely, did John McCain ever state that he did not know about at least some of Hagee’s and Parsley’s outlandish and bigoted comments when he eagerly sought out both of these men’s endorsements and shared the stage with them?

    “…one outright falsehood, in that McCain called Parsley “A spiritual guide,” not “His spiritual guide.”

    If McCain thinks a nutbag like Parsley supposedly being “a spiritual guide” is a good thing (which in the context of the story in which McCain is quoted as saying those words, he clearly does) then we are into “distinction without a difference” territory. If a presidential candidate said in an approving context that Louis Farrakhan is “a spiritual guide,” that hypothetical candidate would be (figuratively) crucified and rightly so.

  • “Hagee is no Rev. Wright.”

    You’re correct. Hagee is a Caucasian bigot and America-basher (remember, one of his televised sermons was entitled “America: the Portrait of Paganism), and Wright is an African-American bigot and America-basher.

    “Rev. Wright stole the headlines with this hate-mongering”

    So hate-mongering is only bad when it “steals the headlines,” (in the case of Wright), but okay when it doesn’t (in the case of Hagee).

    “It’s one of many obstacles Obama faces in his fruitless quest for power.”

    So being a state representative and U.S. senator carry no “power” (in other words, you really should have used the words “the presidency” instead of “power” in your sentence).

  • Republican presidents have been embracing anti-American, anti-minority, anti-Semitic, anti-gay, anti-women, anti-Catholic, etc., etc. Right-Wing Evangelical and Fundamentalist ministers for decades. People like Schaefer, Graham, Falwell, Robertson, Jones, Hagee and dozens of others have all preached that America and Americans are damned by God for one goofy reason or another. These religious bigots have been the advisors and confidants to Nixon, Ford, Reagan and both Bushes. But, the anti-American hate they spew is fine because it furthers the fear-based Right-Wing political agenda.

    Wright’s only problem is that he isn’t Right.

    The Right-Wing became a joke in its efforts to “prove” that Senator Obama is/was a Muslim. Having failed that, they turned to sensationalizing Reverend Wright and Trinity United Church of Christ. According to their warped spin, Senator Obama may be a Christian, but he isn’t the Right kind.

    The Right-Wing is running its smear campaign against what they fear as the ultimate boogieman — a Black president of the United States.

    OBAMA ’08
    YES WE CAN!

  • I am catholic and know that an endorsement is usually asymtrical. But we are taught to forgive and forget, without forgetting there is no forgiveness. That is an error in judgement, not a character flaw. Hope I am not wrong..I am also Floridian by residence, and a born and bred New Yorker. I am a registered Republican. When in doubt vot e your party. I have no doubts about John McCain. Glad to hear Senator McCain seperated himself..from Hagee. He is a brim stone and fire type of guy. Who needs it?Are there still people in the U S that go along with their pastors every word! In this day and age, after Nixon and Vietnam that would be silly. What have we learned from our history? The aging of America brings individuals who do remember the 1960, 70, 80, and 90’s I doubt if Hagees words are all that important, just insulting.Small people with small minds revert to that type of language in a public forum – What and Who fuels this guy?

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