Looking for a magic bullet

Listening to today’s floor debate in the Senate on Bush’s detainee bill, and reading various commentaries and analyses, I keep hoping to find that one summary that will magically help the nation understand that the legislation under consideration isn’t just another piece of right-wing nonsense, it’s an assault on our democracy. It’s literally offensive. It’s that bad.

But there is no magic bullet. Worse, for Senate Republicans, they’re embracing this legislation with eyes wide open. This isn’t an instance in which, years from now, embarrassed lawmakers will look back and say, “I just didn’t realize what a mistake it was.” They know what the bill does, they recognize the ways in which it undermines our values and system of government, and they’ve decided that it simply doesn’t matter. They’re doing it anyway.

In fact, as it turns out, “eyes wide open” is probably an ironic metaphor. As Slate’s Dahlia Lithwick explained, lawmakers are going to approve legislation that intentionally keeps their eyes shut.

For the five years since 9/11, we have been in the dark in this country. This president has held detainees in secret prisons and had them secretly tortured using secret legal justifications. Those held in secret at Guantanamo Bay include innocent men, as do those who have been secretly shipped off to foreign countries and brutally tortured there. That was a shame on this president.

But passage of the new detainee legislation will be a different sort of watershed. Now we are affirmatively asking to be left in the dark. Instead of torture we were unaware of, we are sanctioning torture we’ll never hear about. Instead of detainees we didn’t care about, we are authorizing detentions we’ll never know about. Instead of being misled by the president, we will be blind and powerless by our own choice. And that is a shame on us all.

Indeed, it is. Today’s vote is happening with our consent. The administration’s conduct will be done in our name. When Lithwick describes this tragedy as a “shame on us all,” she means that quite literally.

Dan Froomkin is asking all the right questions.

Today’s Senate vote on President Bush’s detainee legislation, after House approval yesterday, marks a defining moment for this nation.

How far from our historic and Constitutional values are we willing to stray? How mercilessly are we willing to treat those we suspect to be our enemies? How much raw, unchecked power are we willing to hand over to the executive?

That last question is of particular significance today in light of the partisan breakdown of today’s debate. Republicans — the party of small, limited government — are giving the president extraordinary, extra-constitutional power. But it’s probably worth keeping in mind that it’s not just a static action; Congress is now expanding the power of the presidency, not just the president.

As Kevin put it, “I wish conservatives could back away for a few minutes from their fear of breaking with a president of their own party and ask themselves if they want any president to have this power. The constitution is there for a reason, guys, and a day is going to come when you wish you hadn’t gutted it.”

But gut it they will. As soon as the president puts his signature on this monstrosity, he (and his successors) will have the power to define what torture is, label people unlawful combatants and detain them indefinitely, discard a centuries-old commitment to habeas corpus, and use evidence obtained through torture in trials in which the defendant will not have access to the evidence against him.

As 609 law professors said in a joint statement to Congress:

“Taken together, the bill’s provisions rewrite American law to evade the fundamental principles of separation of powers, due process, habeas corpus, fair trials, and the rule of law, principles that, together, prohibit state-sanctioned violence. If there is any fixed point in the historical understandings of constitutional freedom that help to define us as a people, it is that no one may be picked up and locked up by the American state in secret or at an unknown location, or without opportunity to petition an independent court for inspection of the lawfulness of the lockup and of the treatment handed out by the state to the person locked up, under legal standards from time to time defined by Congress. This core principle should apply with full force to all detentions by the American state, regardless of the citizenship of detainees.”

Yes, it should, but after today, it won’t. It’s an American tragedy.

Apparently it hasn’t occurred to the nitwits and cretins lining up to vote for this pernicious nonsense is that some future president, if not this one, will feel free to extend the use of illegal torture and detention to people he just doesn’t like. Not “terrorists,” citizens. Like, um, Democrats. Or gay people. Or union members. Or, whatever.

  • As a Canadian I am floored. No offense to you guys, but your country is rappidly becoming a police state, and I pray that we are not dragged down with you. Back in the early 90’s, my wife and I were just starting out and having trouble getting career traction. We seriously considered moving down south because we saw a land of freedom and opportunity under Bill Clinton. Now, all I can do is sadly shake my head and thank god I didn’t go. You have my deepest sympathy for what these bastards are doing to your country and it’s reputation.

  • As Kevin put it, “I wish conservatives could back away for a few minutes from their fear of breaking with a president of their own party and ask themselves if they want any president to have this power. The constitution is there for a reason, guys, and a day is going to come when you wish you hadn’t gutted it.”

    This is a weird alliance of anti-constitutionalists of two different strains.

    The Rovian Republican’ts plan to Diebold themselves into premanent ruling majorities for, well, forever. Thus they could give a damn about the image of Hillary Clinton with dictatorial powers.

    The Theocratic Reactionary Rapturists plan to twist American Foreign Policy to induce the End Times, and thus get to go directly to Heaven without having to pass personal death. For many of them (Jerry Falwell, say) their time on this Earth is limited anyway. They need to bring about Apocolypse ASAP.

    Why the Chuck Hagel’s and John Warner’s of the world embrace this vision is beyond me. Is party loyalty a greater good then the constitutional order of America?

    “It’s an American tragedy.”

    Too right!

  • I called my Rep, who voted for this monstrosity yesterday to tell him how ashamed he made me of being an American. He’s up for re-election this year, and I am doing everything I can to get him out of office. I fear it is too late for us.

  • In 5, 10, 15, 20 years when something comes out like what Hoover was doing, they are going to be able to point to this president, this Congress, and this administration and say “this is where it started.”

    But we have a political class (and a fair number of the general public) who are Pat Robert’s (“You have no civil liberties if you are dead”) and very few Patrick Henry’s (“Give me liberty or give me death”) and to add futher to the mix a press that is more interested in being balanced than it is in being analytical, so I can’t say I am at all surprised – though somehow I still am.

    Fear based responses – like this one is – take peiple to places that are places they never thought they would go. In this case hindsight is not 20/20 – those of us that are still in possession of our full faculties and have not been so brainwashed or become so fearful see what is coming.

    Republicans who under Clinton during the whole Elian Gonzales tempest in a teapot , were wailing about “jack booted thugs” really do have a lot to answer for. These tactics and all of the other things that can be grouped with this piece of crap (that can be laid at their door) better be prepared to have them used against them. Today’s party in power is tomorrow’s minority party, because it will by the next president who is looking for creative ways to fight the nexty boogyman – who ever that might be. And in case they really don’t get it, the next enemy may not be some anonymous Muslim on the other side of the world, it could be their church, their group, their whatever.

  • Do you want Hillary Clinton to have the power to arrest you as an enemy combatant?

    I think that should meet your objective

  • Can someone help this ignoramus out? It seems like saying habeas corpus no longer applies would require a constitutional ammendment. Obviously it doesn’t cause no one is talking about that. Why is that? How can they take away freedoms in the constitution w/o ammending it?

  • Daddy, how long does Mr. Bush get to be President?
    Well, as long as he likes Timmy.
    Why doesn’t somebody else get a turn?
    Well the Democrats who wanted to take a turn all disappeared.
    Daddy, what’s a Democrat?

  • What’s the thinking about this detainee bill vis-a-vis the courts???…is there any chance that lower federal courts will start throwing out its provisions???…does the ACLU plan to challege it???…nobody’s commenting on this as far as I can tell…

  • When you look at all of the things they’re doing, it doesn’t really look like they’re planning for Democrats to come back to power. But Democrats statements on these things can sound weak. “This lowers our credibility and our standing” sounds like a sound-byte- it’s not much of an explanation. We need to get across to people that Democratic control wouldn’t be people who don’t know security and don’t know military concerns running security and the military– it would just be the same people or most of the same people who have proved their capability running things, but with Democratic oversight; and no unnecessary things would be part of security and military endeavors- like unnecessary torture.

    That the Republicans are pushing for the unnecessary things like unnecessary torture shows you where the people who really want those policies are going. When they start turning those policies on more and more people, the Republicans who help them out will stand there and let them. They’ll be too self-restrained and modest to ever hint at a limit for any of it. So we’ve got to get it across now and communicate it to people now. And if a Democratic politician or another really sophisticated Dem seems like they’re really not doing a good job talking about it and messing it up, we have to be ready to step in and try to talk about it a little better than they do.

  • While we’re in the habit of rewriting truisms, how about an amendment to Godwin’s Law: “…except in such instances where a Nazi analogy would have merit.”

  • Sen. Chris Dodd gave a moving speech today about his father who participated in the Nuremberg trials, and he ended with a quote from one of the Judges:

    DODD : As Justice Jackson said at Nuremberg, “we must never forget that the record on which we judge these defendants today is the record on which history will judge us tomorrow. To pass these defendants a poisoned chalice is to put it to our lips as well.” Mr. President, to rubber-stamp the Administration’s bill would poison one of the most fundamental principles of American democracy. I urge my colleagues not to allow that to happen.

  • On the lighter side, and in line with “spencer’s” observation, it would be a rather delicious irony if President Hillary disappeared Bush, i.e. the Mandubyan Candidate…

  • These are indeed times when desperate men cling desperately to power. The Republic may be able to recover from this criminal assault on consitutional and common law principles. Again, it might not.

    One would hope that a few Republican senators understand their treachery and hope to survive long enough to repeal the legislation. Or that the Supreme Court may declare the abomination unconstitutional. Yet it is hard to put one’s trust in lackeys that lack the courage to uphold their oath of office.

    I attended grad school with an older guy that had been a noncomisioned officer with the 82nd Airborne in 1974. The 82nd, he said, was often one of the first units called into action by the president. His CO, a captain, asked him what he would think about being deployed on the grounds of the Whitehouse.

    He did not tell the CO what he really thought. His thought was it depended upon whether the guns were aimed at or away from the Whitehouse. He preferred the former.

  • I’m not a card-carrying member of Salon.com – is there anywhere else to see the letter from the law professors?

  • freek – the Constitution states in Article I, section 9:

    “The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.”

    I haven’t seen the discussion on it, but I would imagine they are either taking the position that habeas corpus is not being suspended (plausible deniability is usually a position taken by tyrants), or if they concede that it is being suspended, they classify the attack on 9/11 as an invasion.

    Or they just don’t give a shit and they’re doing it anyways and let’s see what the SCOTUS does with it. While we wait for some test case to matriculate, we will be in the midst of a full-blown dictatorship.

  • I was reminded today, that this legislation is about two categories, i.e., terrorists and material witnesses. The nation understands the term terrorist, but does the nation understand the term material witness? A material witness is someone who is detained and held without charge for as long as bush wants her held. Taken under the cloak of darkness, never to be seen again, as a material witness to some nebulous case, never to be disclosed. Will you be the next (yes, the bush gang has been abusing this process for years) material witness to disappear? Luckily, the bush gang is about to have such atrocities legitimized by legislators that do understand the term material witness. Their eyes are indeed, “wide open”.

  • The only “magic bullet” that will make John Q. Public understand is the one that hits him in the ass.

    JQP isn’t getting that worked up about it because he doesn’t really care what happens to a bunch of foreigners and he doesn’t care what they think of the US. I’m not condemning Mr. P for this, it’s only human nature. We (humans) aren’t so hot when it comes to giving a fuck about strangers. We think we’re upset and horrified by what’s happening in Iraq but that’s nothing, not a twinge when compared to what the Iraqi people feel. That’s human nature. Politicians have exploited this flaw in our design since the first ones crawled out of the primordial ooze in their ugly suits. “Hey, it’s only a bunch of foreigners,” they’re telling us and most of us are replying “OK.”

    And frankly I think the chance that loud mouth lefties in the US will be rounded up and dragged off to a dark hole is, I think, miniscule. This isn’t about most of us.

    Unless said lml is from a predominantly Muslim country.

    The beams penetrating my tin foil hat tell me Haliburton built a sprawling, razor wire-fenced compound some where in the wilds of America and it is waiting for the first shipments of Enemy Combatants, A.K.A people from or descended from people from browner sections of the population.

  • Realistically, this will be challenged in court and overturned. It is so cartoonishly unconstitutional that even Scalia would probably overturn it. This is pure demagoguery, and its only purpose is to try to give GOP congresspeople talking points to use against their opponents in the next few weeks.

    The GOP doen’t have anything to run on other than national security, and even there they are weak because Iraq and the general WOT are fiascos. The point of this is to pump up the jingoistic volume to raise the salience of security issues and scaremongering.

    The american way of life is under threat from authoritarian religious fanatics financed by a ruthless band of megarich dynastic petro-monarchists. No, not Al Qaida. The GOP.

  • A few days ago I suggested here or on Daily Kos, that the Democrats should offer an amendment (to the bill) to guarantee that American citizens could not be label “unlawful enemy combatants”; but any citizen that is a terrorist suspect could be prosecuted under the treason laws–thus protecting a citizen’s legal right to due process. Such amendment would serve two purposes: 1) It would protect American citizens from a caprious government, if approved, or 2) it would serve as a “poison pill” to those in Congress who strongly favor the yielding of all power to this president–or any president.

    I’m looking for some brutal honesty here. Is this idea for an amendment to salvage a shred of our rights lame? Unworkable? Are the Democrats in the Senate even listening?

  • freek and homer:

    one more aspect to consider, and the way the Supremes have managed to duck a number of issues lately where the clear legal answer was contrary to their politics, is standing.

    who would have standing to challenge the legislative destruction of habeus? you and I haven’t been detained, and we have no evidence that our detention is imminent. so, the argument would go, we have no standing. ok, so someone who is detained and wants to bring a habeus case has it dismissed, and appeals. which would be the normal process. but since this administration believes the detention itself can be secret, with limited access to counsel, how does this hypothetical case ever arise?

    answer: it doesn’t. those not subjected to the new autocratic regime have no standing. those with standing have no access. ergo, the law stands because no constitutional challenges ever get heard.

    not that i’m cynical or anything.

  • “Today’s vote is happening with our consent.”

    ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING?

    Our consent? ALL of my representatives voted NAY on all this crap, except maybe Feinstein.

    Bushco just finished killing 200,000 people, destroying four countries (Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, and Haiti), while poisoning every child who will ever live in whatever Iraq becomes.

    MAJOR warcrimes — WITHOUT OUR CONSENT AT ALL — NOT IN OUR NAMES — which CAN eventually be punished with the worst punishment our courts or an international court will order.

    And not an inch of rope less.

  • Here’s the magic bullet:

    This bill gives the rest of the world permission to TORTURE OUR SOLDIERS.

  • I think JimBob is right. These assholes are willing to throw away the constitution in order to win in November. All they have left is the war on terror. The law will probably be overturned, though with this current court, nothing is for sure. We all need to breath and not lose focus. Don’t let this overwhelm the overriding issue. Laws can be passed, but laws also can be repealed. There will be challenges and I don’t believe congress can amend the Constitution. Let us all hope that this stunt backfires like Terry Schivo. GET OUT THE VOTE IN NOVEMBER!

  • I’ve been saying this (privately — I rarely post) for some time: America is, sadly, well on the way to being the world’s largest banana republic. This is just the most recent step in the wrong direction — it’s only different from Dubya & Co.’s previous steps in that it’s very large, and in the worst possible direction.

  • Zeitgeist – as usual, good point. If the law works the way it’s intended to, a person with actual standing, i.e., a detainee, doesn’t appear to have any (or at least very limited) rights of appeal. Plus, since the real goal seems to be to “disappear” them (another example of the verbification of the English language), they probably wouldn’t be around anyways.

    The law does allow for people/groups to have standing to assert the rights of others if, for example, the actual injured party finds it difficult to assert their own rights. For example, the NAACP can represent voters whose right to vote is being blocked. The individual voters don’t necessarily have to be named.

    Another way is to have organizational standing. We could start an organization (Citizens Opposed to People Disappearing). Then if one of the members gets snatched, the organization might arguably have standing.

    I can’t believe that I’m discussing this.

  • Where do I find the list of House legislators (and Senators, too, when they pass it) and their votes on this issue? I know it has to be somewhere on the web but I don’t know what to search on.

  • Anney,

    The Senate vote on the entire bill is here:
    http://tinyurl.com/j8ko8

    I haven’t yet read the list myself but, according to the TPMmuckraker, it passed 65:34. That’s far worse then the vote on the habeas corpus-stripping amendment, which was rejected 51:48 (Nelson from NE was the only Dem voting with the torturers, and several Repubs crossed the party lines. Not the “independent stalwarts”– McCain, Warner and whatshisname from SC — though) earlier today.

    If you go to the TPMmuckraker
    http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/

    they have links for each of the votes including the House’s. You’ll just have to scroll down to find that one. I know, I know, I should be producing more direct links (or so my son tells me) but I’m none too handy with the puter-beastie myself.

    “Way back when”, some 40 yrs ago, whe I was a teenager in Poland, a Russian dissident named Bulat Okujawa sang a song, of which one stanza went like this:

    And when the first war (happens) — it’s no-one’s fault.
    And when the second war (happens) — it’s anyone’s fault.
    But when the third war (happens), it’s your fault and your fault is visible to all (everyone? There’s only one word for both in Russian).

    We’ve elected the SOBs, even when we didn’t vote for them.

  • Dear President Bush,

    Today the Republican Rubberstamp Congress passed a bill to eliminate habeas corpus and allow the torture American citizens. I’m sure the terrorists are proud of the fact that they had you to toss out over two hundred years of American law and try to turn America into a totalitarian state like the old (and gone) USSR. I’m sure that you’re doing the best you can, but if you cannot outwit a bunch of old farts living in caves in Pakistan then we’re going to have to vote out the Republican Congress and get in a new Congress and change direction.

    You cannot win the war on terror by doing exactly what the terrorist want you to do. I’m sure you have plenty of good advisers in the military that told you torture doesn’t work and that invading Iraq was a mistake. Maybe if you fired that loser Rumsfeld you would have actually heard good advice from professionals. To be blunt, you have to go out, find the terrorists, and put their head on a pike by the side of the road rather than getting sidetracked by a big mess of your own creation in Iraq. Apparently this rather obvious truth has escaped you just like Osama Bin Laden. Instead we’ve turned Iraq into a terrorist boarding school where we make terrorists much faster than we can ever kill them. Now that’s just stupid.

    The downside to all of this stupidity has gotten rather large. Our Army is getting ground up fighting a war it was never supposed to fight. They have performed with the utmost honor and valor, but you, their leader have failed them just like you have failed us. We backed you without rancor after 9/11 despite facts which now show beyond dispute that you left our country exposed to attacked after clear warnings of danger, and you have mired our country in a no-win war in Iraq rather than bringing the terrorists to justice.

    And to top off this all off, you state that it will be up to the next guy to clean it all up. That’s just been the story of your whole life, hasn’t it. One failure after another expecting your Dad to clean up the mess. Well, I’m sorry, but the buck stops with YOU. We expect you to work with the new Congress and the Supreme Count, your peers, and clean up your mess. But go talk to your Dad and get some good advice, because, God knows, you sure need it.

    Just so you know, it’s an unwritten rule in American politics that if you start a war, especially one that had no purpose other than serving your vanity, you had better win the war. You’ve started a couple of wars and are losing all of them. Not acceptable and down right un-American. Get your act together or get out of the way. We’re going to have to win your stupid wars and we cannot afford any more screw-ups from you.

    Your boss,

    John Q. Public

  • anney!!!!!!!!!!!! (scroll drown)

    In the House, Republican and Democrats are divide by non-italic and italic fonts to indicate party The Senate vote has R’s and D’s

  • Libra

    Thanks. THAT was what I was looking for.

    I think that every legislator who voted for Bush’s torture bill should receive thousands of letters telling them they’re fools and fascists. I know that’s strong language, but it seems to be the truth to me.

    With Bush’s SC appointees, do you really think this statute will be knocked down? If it arrives there?

    Send money to the ACLU or anyone who might be able to challenge it!

    I am close to being in a rage about this. How DARE they, goddamnit.

  • All I can think of at this juncture is to offer sincere thanks to those 34 who demonstrated their commitment to the belief that the Constitution stands head-and-shoulders above the filth of political gamesmanship and the quest for brute power over the Peoples of the world. As for the 66 who chose the other path—criminals, cowards, or maybe a little of both in some instances—I renounce their authority over me; my family; my home. I will not fight their war of filth; neither will I support it; physically or financially. I will fly Old Glory in its inverted position, to signify the true distress that has been foisted upon this nation by those who pretend to hold the right to sacrifice my children’s true security for their own false security.

    If, as the lord of hate and fear so eloquently puts it, we must deny the terrorist his support, then that denial must begin here—at home—upon our own shores, and our own streets; in our schools, churches, and farm-fields; the overt network that is Herr Bush’s terrorist regime must be denied every possible shred of the “fuel” than runs its engines.

    Convert portfolios to foreign-entity investments. Wall Street is one of the linchpins of this administration.

    Carpool. This denies the collection of federal gasoline taxes on fuel that’s not used.

    Hold off on buying that house. The harder the bubble bursts, the worse it reflects on this administration’s “fictitious” economy.

    Pay cash, and pay off the plastic. Deny the consumer credit industry a portion of its obscenely-userous revenues.

    Do simple research into natural/holistic health options, in concert with regularly consulting your personal physician. Choke off big pharma’s filthy profits, and their ability to put huge sums of money into Republican campaign-coffers.

    Videotape that ESPN broadcast, and share it with friends. Borrow a Disney film from the library, instead of watching it on an ABC affiliate. Either way reduces the ratings, thus reducing the advertising revenues.

    If you’re thinking about boycotting something, then DO IT. Get people to go in on the idea with you…and write an editorial. Call a radio station about it. A television station. If your 40, then email Bill O’Rielly, and tell him you won’t be able to watch his program until you’re 30-some years older because you’re not a mindless old fart yet. Email Rupert Murdock’s “New York Post” a picture of confetti with a letter explaining that his smut-rag of a paper just isn’t worth the price of baby powder. Get nasty. Get ugly. Get medieval on these imps—hit them until they feel the pain, and then hit them again—endlessly.

    The point is—get out of the recliner chair, step away from the keyboard, put down the remote—and start doing something. The time for “talk’ is over; the time for “walk” is upon us…or we will lose the greatest nation that’s ever existed on this tired old hulk of a planet—and become just another decaying empire….

  • @ 24 [slip kid no more] “I’m looking for some brutal honesty here. Is this idea for an amendment to salvage a shred of our rights lame? Unworkable? Are the Democrats in the Senate even listening?”

    I’ll be brutally honest: It me makes me angry to see intelligent, brave, well meaning people suggest that an acceptable compromise is “Just promise you won’t do it to me.” (You’re not the first person to suggest it either.) That’s playing right into Shrubco’s game and why many people don’t care at all: “We’ll only do this to brown guys who live far away; You won’t hear the screams.” That doesn’t make me feel any better.

    The US has legalized major human rights violations. If I don’t like it when North Korea does it to its citizens, I sure as hell can’t sit back and say I don’t mind when the US does it to citizens of another country.

    However, I don’t think you’re really comfortable with the idea either. And consider this: Such an amendment would leave the tens of thousands of people who live in the US, who might have lived here for decades, but aren’t citizens open to being hauled off some where and never seen again.

    No wonder Orwell was so depressed, he knew people too well.

  • Ladies and gentlemen, may I present, not the “Republofascists”, but the “Democratic anti-Magna Carta pro-torture Caucus”

    I have to say Stabenow and Lautenberg surprised me.

    The dirty dozen:

    Carper (D-DE)
    Johnson (D-SD)
    Landrieu (D-LA)
    Lautenberg (D-NJ)
    Lieberman (D-CT)
    Menendez (D-NJ)
    Nelson (D-FL)
    Nelson (D-NE)
    Pryor (D-AR)
    Rockefeller (D-WV)
    Salazar (D-CO)
    Stabenow (D-MI)

  • Great post #41 TAIO. I was thinking of responding exactly the same way to slip kid’s “Don’t do it to me” amendment suggestion.

  • Orange, I understand your point completely. But, I wanted to do one of three things: raise the profile of the debate for the general public to see; extract something from BushCo and the Republicans that they didn’t want to giveup; focus the public on the possibility that citizenship–with its legal and constitutional protections–could be rendered meaningless. And yes, it is immoral to not apply the same rules to all people.

  • 44. sknm: Understood. Pardon me if I sounded harsh. I’m a tad cynical about the average person’s ability to give a damn. (Can’t imagine why.) I think Shrubco would answer the “What about American’s?” debate with “Well if they’re terrorists, who cares?” Which, it is true, would bring to light the whole innocent until proven guilty thing this disgrace of a law over rules, so that might be a good thing.

    However, I still I think most people assume it’ll only happen to the “other guy,” which is why people haven’t been throwing rocks at the Capitol and no amount of debate on what will happen if they become the other guy will wake them up. Something bad will have to happen to “normal folks” under this law before John Q. Public gets angry.

    I still say this is a run up to mass detention of people from the mid-east (first, second, third generation). Maybe that will upset enough people and the mask will finally be off the monkey.

    Cynically yours – tAiO.

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