Maliki, Obama, and the elusive ‘mistranslation’

Just as Barack Obama was poised to visit Iraq, Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, unprompted, announced his belief that Obama’s withdrawal policy “would be the right time timeframe for a withdrawal,” and is “more realistic.” Maliki added that a McCain policy of “artificially extending the stay of U.S. troops” would “cause problems,” and concluded that Republican talking points in general are, at their core, mistaken: “The Americans have found it difficult to agree on a concrete timetable for the exit because it seems like an admission of defeat to them. But that isn’t the case at all.”

The new, political response is that Maliki didn’t actually say what he was quoted saying. A statement released by U.S. Central Command on the Maliki government’s behalf suggests Maliki was “misunderstood and mistranslated.”

Der Spiegel, the magazine Maliki spoke with, not only released a detailed transcript to bolster its report, but issued another statement today standing by its story.

Obama is pleased, but McCain certainly is not. In an interview with SPIEGEL, Iraqi Prime Minister al-Maliki expressed support for Obama’s troop withdrawal plans. Despite a half-hearted retraction, the comments have stirred up the US presidential campaign. SPIEGEL stands by its version of the conversation. […]

A number of media outlets likewise professed to being confused by the statement from Maliki’s office. The New York Times pointed out that al-Dabbagh’s statement “did not address a specific error.” CBS likewise expressed disbelief pointing out that Maliki mentions a timeframe for withdrawal three times in the interview and then asks, “how likely is it that SPIEGEL mistranslated three separate comments? Matthew Yglesias, a blogger for the Atlantic Monthly, was astonished by “how little effort was made” to make the Baghdad denial convincing. And the influential blog IraqSlogger also pointed out the lack of specifics in the government statement.

SPIEGEL sticks to its version of the conversation.

Well, of course it does. There’s no reason at all to question its accuracy.

The “clarification” said there was an error, but didn’t actually name any. Maliki made three separate comments about the superiority of Obama’s policy, and a transcription error couldn’t explain all three. Maliki’s comments were allegedly misunderstood, but the follow-up didn’t quote Maliki at all. And it really doesn’t help that the clarification was issued by the U.S. military’s Central Command press office, not the prime minister’s office.

I think Ben Smith summarized the situation nicely.

It’s almost a convention of politics that when a politician says he was misquoted, but doesn’t detail the misquote or offer an alternative, he’s really saying he wishes he hadn’t said what he did, or that he needs to issue a pro-forma denial to please someone.

The Iraqi Prime Minister’s vague denial seems to fall in that category…. Maliki’s words illustrate a political reality: Foreign players have a real influence on American politics, and they know it. Osama bin Laden appeared to be trying to tilt the 2004 election with a sinister 11th hour statement. His motives are unknown, but observers including John McCain thought he helped President George W. Bush. There’s already quiet speculation about how Al Qaeda will seek to influence this election, and whether they see themselves as standing more to gain from continued American presence in Iraq or from withdrawal. […]

Iraq’s elected leaders have more power than any others. There used to be occasional references to Iraq as the 51st state; the number of American soldiers and civilians in Iraq appears to be well north of 150,000, more than a quarter of the population of Alaska. And both McCain and Obama cast their policies, in part, in terms of what’s good for the Iraqis and what they want.

So while there’s been some suggestion that Maliki was playing domestic politics, this seems like the opposite. (Who plays domestic politics in the pages of Der Spiegel?) Maliki is playing international politics, American politics even. While some may object to that, it may be a sign that he intends to be a player in the American election from now until November, and realizes how much more leverage he has now on the next president’s stance toward his country than he will after our election.

Stay tuned.

Who plays domestic politics in the pages of Der Spiegel?

Germans.

Joking aside. It’s going to be sad/interesting to see the War Machine try to back spin this and arm twist Maliki. How much you want to bet that CENTCOM reminded the Prime Minister that it could take him out. No wonder he wants to U.S. out of there. Playing the marionette can’t be any fun for anyone of intelligence and personal pride.

  • The wingers will destroy al Maliki’s credibility and authority. He will become an ungrateful foreign leader that needs the support of the American military for his nation’s own good. His opinions will be cast aside as irrelevant.

    Personal destruction is what they do, and they do it fairly well.

  • Just out of curiosity, has anyone heard from al-Maliki in the past 24 hours?

    Anyone?

    Anyone at all?

    *crickets chirping….*

  • President Bush Thursday proclaimed Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki “the right guy for Iraq,” and said they had agreed to speed the turnover of security responsibility from American to Iraqi forces. But Bush dismissed a reported decision by an independent bipartisan panel to call for a gradual withdrawal of troops.”

    “I know there’s a lot of speculation that these reports in Washington mean there’s going to be some kind of graceful exit out of Iraq,” the president said during a joint news conference here with Maliki, referring to the panel’s final report that is expected next week. “We’re going to stay in Iraq to get the job done so long as the government wants us there.”

    Well, so much for actually allowing Iraqis to actually run Iraq.

    So much for actually creating a democracy.

    I’m SHOCKED, SHOCKED that our President is lying AGAIN.

  • The mistranslation is simple, just replace “Maliki” with “official who asked for anonymity because they are not authorized to speak on behalf of the Iraqi government.”

  • This is bad for McCain and bad for any media outlets that play along with the ‘clarification.’ It will be very interesting to see how this plays out in the next few days in terms of what Maliki and other Iraqi government officials say, what centcom and other US military officials say, what Bush and other administration officials say, what the McCain campaign says, what the Obama campaign says and, last, what various media outlets say.

    This could hardly have happened at a more opportune time with Obama in the region and a string of high level major media figures in tow. Make some popcorn — this is going to be good. If the major media plays along with the mischaracterization angle, what little credibility they have left will be pulverized beyond any hope of recovery. If on the other hand, out of an awareness of their precarious position they finally turn on St McCain in the service of a basic survival instinct, then he is cut off at the knees and basically finished. Let’s see what happens.

  • This is definitely going to take more than another photo-op or Bush-“freedom”-blabber to sweep under the rug. Bush’s puppet talks. I think I will make some popcorn!

  • The “clarification” is designed, of course, to do just the opposite. It now gives the braindead media another opportunity to do “he said, she said, you decide” nonsense. By muddying the waters the real story – the Iraqi PM siding with Obama – is buried, which is what Bushco wants.The only things this bunch is good at – besides rape, plunder and pilage – is PR and propaganda. And they’re brilliant at both.

  • And John McCain’s response was “al-Maliki is just a politician.” Um, one who was elected by the Iraqi people, senator.

  • The notion that Mr. El Maliki would “endorse” Senator Obama’s Iraq policies while he is negotiating the exit of foreign troops from his country with the Bush administration is preposterous. You, Common Dreams, have made yourself ridiculous by aping “Der Spiegel”, a notoriously unreliable German rag which is plugging its issues for the upcoming visit of Obama to Germany.

  • #10,

    Yes, of course. By all means, pay no attention to what he actually said three different times in the article or the transcript provided by the magazine. Just attack the magazine, attack (for some reason) Common Dreams, attack anyone who says anything that doesn’t fit with your preordained narrative. Facts are easy to ignore and cover up. Pay no attention to ones that don’t comport with your dogma. Don’t worry, no one will call you on it.

  • With McCain losing so badly to Obama on domestic issues like the economy…WHAT CAN HE SAY? What possible response could McCain make that would help him at all? “I’m willing to admit when I’m wrong”???

    Like his totally incoherent statement on social security this should have been the last nail in the coffin yet his campaign must continue even though it’s dead in the water

    . Like the condemned murderer before the firing squad whose only last words are “wait..wait..wait… the McCain campaign is pretty much speechless containing only a huge list of reasons not to vote for their candidate. “We spun as best we could considering what we had to work with”.

    McCain…Wrong on Everything.

  • Someone should fake a French or Italian story claiming that Ahmadinejad has said the United States should get out of Iraq within the next 16 months since it is now stable, and distribute it to all the leading right-wing blogs. Then wait for the outrage to brew. I wonder how long it would take that story to dominate the news cycle while the al Maliki sits gathering dust?

    BTW, the top left story at CNN.com is a fawning Time magazine piece about Purity Balls. It’s still creepy for fathers to be that obsessed with their’ daughter’s sexuality, regardless of how sweet the Time writer and editors think it is.

  • A problem being the lame duck is that sometimes reality gets a little out of hand, and the lame duck is surprised after easily manipulating reality for so long a time. The angry lame duck strikes back twisting arms and reality back into his will. By tomorrow, heck by today, this statement from al Maliki will not exist and all the little ducklings in the McCain/Bush camp just wiggle their tails and splash, content that the momentary lapse of control is safely forgotten. Thank you Wolf, thank you Charlie, thank you Dicks (Gregory and ..eh, Cheney?), thank you very much Chris and Brit. There’s barbecue in Sonoma. My friends, we thank you.

  • US Central Command: a collection of what my old friend the late Colonel David Hackworth would have called “Perfumed Princes of Versailles-on-the-Potomac.” The senior American military is about as truthful today as they were 40 years ago with “there’s light at the end of the tunnel.”

  • Pet Rock @ 10 once again demonstrates that he is a pet rock. No substance; no intellect; no factual context. Just rock.

    @ 10, we find a particularly dense rock, known as “Ignoramus Rock.” Ignoramus rocks are crystalline solids which form directly from the flip-flopping of kool-aid in a soft-serve ice cream machine. This is an exo-neuron process (it loses brain matter) and involves a phase change from the liquid to the solid state. The Republican Party is made of ignoramus rock – at least at the surface where they are exposed to the coldness of Truth. Ignoramus rocks are given names based upon two things: composition (thieving neoconservative or xenophobic fundamentalist) and texture (whether they’re chasing under-aged females in a bar, or undercover policemen in airport restroom stalls).

  • When asked by SPIEGEL about the reasons for the improved security situation in Iraq, Maliki said: “There are many factors, but I see them in the following order. First, there is the political rapprochement we have managed to achieve in central Iraq. This has enabled us, above all, to pull the plug on al-Qaida. Second, there is the progress being made by our security forces. Third, there is the deep sense of abhorrence with which the population has reacted to the atrocities of al-Qaida and the militias. Finally, of course, there is the economic recovery.”

    ..and the ‘Surge’? Of course, Maliki is not a commander on the ground.

  • McCaint is adopting the time-honored practice of elderly curmudgeons everywhere in using the fact he is hard of hearing, as perfected by Emily Latella:

    “Eh? What’s that you say there, Malicky? A pine label for withdrawal? A lime gable? Speak up, sonny, don’ mumble.”

  • What he actually said was “I would like a pine table for the drawing room.” See? Makes a lot more sense.

    Obviously, Mr Maliki was referring to some kind of occasional table or sideboard.

  • “First, there is the political rapprochement we have managed to achieve in central Iraq. This has enabled us, above all, to pull the plug on al-Qaida. Second, there is the progress being made by our security forces. Third, there is the deep sense of abhorrence with which the population has reacted to the atrocities of al-Qaida and the militias. Finally, of course, there is the economic recovery.”

    All this was possible because of the increased security porvided by the surge, if you do not see this its because you choose not to. McCain was right once again! 16 months? I’m saying the troops will be out in 12, thanks to the foresight and experience of our leaders like George Bush and John McCain to implement the surge. Do you really think these things were possible before the surge? You can’t deny the success of the surge, so dont try it!

  • Kind of OT, but now is a good time to say:

    This is a FABULOUS blog, and I am finding it more and more indispensible . . . keep up the great work!

    P.S. To Dano: Riddle me this: How come all of a sudden the surge has worked so well that we can withdraw? Isn’t Patraeus supposed to give his report in September first? The timing is politically odd, no? Nothing to do with that inconvenient little situation with President Maliki, right?

    lol

  • Well now…. what was that I heard about Obamma wanting to send more troops.. what three more brigades to Afg. ??? what about the pull out.. now they need more troops.. this guy flips more than a cheap burger at white castle…..
    aren’t you all a little confused by his policy or lack of..?? I sure am…..of course with your finger up in the political wind at the moment you say what you think the person standing in front of you wants to hear…. my my my…..
    For you Steve♥

  • Dano, I can’t speak for the Obama campaign, but I for one will not deny that the surge was successful in bringing down the levels of violence and that McCain was proved right on the matter.

    However, McCain was wrong on the necessity to go into Iraq and Obama was right. McCain was wrong in saying that Iraq wouldn’t starve the Afghan operations of much-needed support and Obama was right. McCain was wrong in saying that a timetable was neither possible or desirable and Obama was right. For a foreign policy ‘expert’, McCain manages to make bad call after bad call after bad call.

    I’m glad you’re saying that the troops should be out in twelve months, because McCain doesn’t think it’s possible or a good idea. Perhaps you should write a letter and tell him.

  • The pivoting begins.

    All this was possible because of the increased security porvided by the surge, if you do not see this its because you choose not to. McCain was right once again! 16 months? I’m saying the troops will be out in 12, thanks to the foresight and experience of our leaders like George Bush and John McCain to implement the surge. Do you really think these things were possible before the surge? You can’t deny the success of the surge, so dont try it!

    If it weren’t for the foresight (Where are those WMD anyway?)and experience (Drinking and fooling around?) of our leaders we wouldn’t have been stuck in this quagmire in the first place.

  • bttylth, you are confused. Obama wants to pull troops out of Iraq ( minimal al Qeada threat) and increase troops in Afghanistan (major al Qeada threat).

  • And now the wingers are trying to claim that Spiegel misleading and contradictory translations because, you, those darn Germans are just like that. Not true and easy to refute of course, but it’s all they have to cling to at the moment.

    The endgame of this election might have started earlier than expected.

  • I do alot of research and I havent saw anywhere that McCain says its a bad idea to bring the troops home in 16 months, he says its up to the Generals on the ground, bring the troops home when the job is done! As opposed to Obama who wants to bring the troops home no matter what the situation in Iraq might be, I just dont think thats the right way, lets finish the job we started!
    And as for “rege”
    “My position is very clear: The time has come for decisive action to eliminate the threat posed by Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction.”
    Sen. John Edwards Oct. 7th 2002

    “In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members…
    Sen. Hillary Clinton Oct. 10th 2002

    “Saddam Hussein certainly has chemical and biological weapons. There’s no question about that.”
    Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi Nov. 2002

    These qoutes go all day, it sure must be convenient for you to be able to just throw the blame on Bush and McCain but the truth is that this was a joint effort. Ofcourse Obama didn’t have anymore access to CIA intelligence at the time of the invasion then you or me so i think his position would be deemed irrelevent.

  • Dano,

    ‘…finish the job we started…’ Really? You’re really going with that one. You ever hear the song about being ‘knee deep in the big muddy’? I sure as hell wouldn’t follow that old fool McCain anywhere, let alone one more ‘strolls’ through Iraqi markets.

    So, people who bought the BS about WMD are relevant to the argument but Obama’s opposition to it is irrelevant. Sorry, I know you’re in a tough rhetorical position and doing so would be very convenient for you, but I’m not willing to concede that premise.

    McCain has to be reminded time and again of the difference between Shias and Sunnis; he is clueless about the antagonism between Iran and Al Qeada; he’s up for another hundred years in Iraq and he jokes about bombing Iran and killing Iranian civilians with cigarettes.

    But yah, sure. He’s the foreign policy ‘expert.’

  • “it sure must be convenient for you to be able to just throw the blame on Bush and McCain but the truth is that this was a joint effort….”

    Dano,

    Typical. GOPers talk about personal responsibility, unless someone happened to agree with their decision, and then it’s all somebody else’s fault.

    McCain’s words seem now to be obstinate, more than anything else. What he’s really saying is that “we’ll stay as damned long as we feel like, never you mind,” against the will of the people we’re occupying. And lastly, the President is in charge of making strategic decisions; the military makes tactical ones. If you can’t see the difference, there’s no hope for you.

  • Dano, there’s one thing you can’t deny about the surge, another thousand dead American soldiers and thousands more wounded. Every congressman and congress woman who voted for this disgusting War in Iraq should be voted out, so don’t go quoting Democrats who did not show the good judgment of Barack Obama.

    Look to your leader and reap your whirlwind. Someday grandchildren will ask, “did you vote for that idiot who put us in debt for a war?” How many like you will confess?

  • Anyone who thinks violence is down in Iraq because of the surge has never taken a course in logic. An increase in the number of American troops is undoubtedly one of the reasons, but Maliki cited other reasons in his Der Spiegel interview.

  • Dano,

    Bush lied about WMDs in Iraq. He lied, Cheney lied, Condi lied, and Tony Blair lied. Did you miss that story back on June 5th? They lied. The Bush White House lied. Say it with me now: THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION LIED TO JUSTIFY INVADING IRAQ.

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/244/story/39963.html

    Bush lied, he knew he was lying, and the Senate Intelligence Committee proved it. While the rest of us KNEW flat out he was lying (he was talking, wasn’t he?), Congress had very little reason to believe that the President of Unites States was LYING to them to justify an invasion of Iraq. What person would LIE in order to start a war?

    A Republican. That’s what.

    http://www.metafilter.com/72297/Senate-Intelligence-Committee-Phase-II-Reports

    Feel free to download the .pdf files for yourself.

    By the way, for someone who does A LOT of research, you obviously HAVEN’T SEEN what proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation look like. Hooked on Phonics, get some. Why can’t the Rethugs hire better trolls?

  • The “people who bought the BS about WMD” had access to intelligence documents, Obama did not. He may have been right but he had a 50/50 chance, his decision was just a guess at best, so yes that is irrelevent. he might as well went to Vegas and rolled some dice, then made a decision.

    Dave G.
    “Typical. GOPers talk about personal responsibility, unless someone happened to agree with their decision, and then it’s all somebody else’s fault.”
    could you rewrite this for me, cause I cant make sense out of it? And I love how sitting at your computer you can actually tell us what McCain “really meant” by something he said.

  • To Professor Keori,
    I’m sorry, I didn’t realize I was being graded on my grammar. I’ll take the time to capitalize and add proper punctuation next time. Thanks. I guess when you have no valid arguement you must turn to personal attacks.

  • So who has the last say on when foreign forces leave Iraq, the commanders on the ground, or the Iraqi government?

    As for Clinton, Edwards, and Pelosi having access to intelligence documents:

    Does Congress have access to the same raw data that the country’s intelligence agencies use, and are able to develop their own analysis and assesments?

    If not, then how did Congress decided on whether or not Saddam had WMDs?

  • what’s all this about a turntable for withdrawal? you think playing records will get us out of iraq?

  • Oh sweet jesus.

    36.
    On July 20th, 2008 at 10:13 pm, Dano said:

    The “people who bought the BS about WMD” had access to intelligence documents, Obama did not. He may have been right but he had a 50/50 chance, his decision was just a guess at best, so yes that is irrelevent. he might as well went to Vegas and rolled some dice, then made a decision….And I love how sitting at your computer you can actually tell us what McCain “really meant” by something he said.”

    Is it possible that you don’t actually see the inconsistency and hypocrisy here or are you just hoping against hope that others won’t see it. Either way, it’s quite sad and embarrassing for you. But I’m sure you’ll just put it out of your head and keep on wading in deeper and deeper.

    Here’s a newsflash: you don’t get to decide what is relevant and what is not. I understand why you want to say it’s not relevant when it clearly is. But saying so doesn’t make it so. Neither does shutting your eyes and wishing really really hard. Facts are stubborn things and they are not in your favor.

  • 39.
    On July 20th, 2008 at 10:38 pm, emily litella said:

    what’s all this about a turntable for withdrawal? you think playing records will get us out of iraq?


    War!
    Huh
    What is it good for?
    Absolutely nothing
    Say it again ya’ll

  • “War!
    Huh
    What is it good for?
    Absolutely nothing
    Say it again ya’ll”

    I guess johno forgot about Slavery, Nazism, Facism and Communism…cause war has been “good” at stomping out these four things.

  • 42. On July 20th, 2008 at 11:01 pm, Dano said:

    “War!
    Huh
    What is it good for?
    Absolutely nothing
    Say it again ya’ll”

    I guess johno forgot about Slavery, Nazism, Facism and Communism…cause war has been “good” at stomping out these four things.

    Oh, ya know I was quoting song lyrics, right? In response to a funny? I know you’re grasping at straws at this point and you appear to be quite dense, but that’s the best ya got. You’re more tired and worn out than grandpa McCain. Stunningly obtuse.

  • Maliki’s acceptance of Obama’s withdrawal plan is not just a validation of Obama’s policy, but it is also another example of Maliki and the Iraqi government stating that the occupation force must leave soon. I wasn’t surprised that the White House tried to alter his original statements and laughed when it was reported that the amended statement came from the U.S. military Central Command. Of course McCain still thinks that it is an American decision when the American troops are told to leave a sovreign country that they are occupying. It is an arrogant approach that flies in the face of McCain’s statements to the Council on Foreign Relations in April, 2004.

  • So Dano do you think that if Edwards, Clinton, or Pelosi were in the White House on 9/11 their response would have been to go after Saddam? All of them at worst showed bad judgment in acquiescing to the public relations campaign of Bush, Cheney, and Rove. They were not the leaders of this ill-fated march of stupidity. Nor would they have been given the opportunity. This idiocy was cooked up by your leaders.

    Many people, Scot Ritter, Paul Krugman, and even I, saw this for the farce it was as it unfolded. You didn’t need CIA briefings to see that it was transparent scam.

    And to this day, McCain, unlike Edwards, Clinton, and Pelosi, has not come to grips with the fact that Iraq was a colossal mistake, even though we now know that White House made a concerted effort to mislead us in to this war. In addition to mushroom cloud fantasies weaved by the principles, the American public was subject to a massive domestic propaganda effort lead by the Pentagon.

    No, you can’t dismiss Obama for not being conned. No, it was to his great credit that he did not bow to the enormous pressure place on everyone to get behind the naked emperor and march off to the quick sands of Iraq.

    You and your kind by clinging to your delusions have helped to weaken this country in name of some bizarre godforsaken form of patriotism. Thank goodness the American public has at long last awakened to what you and your leaders are all about.

  • Why do you guys bother to even acknowledge Drano’s existence, much less argue with his nonsense?

  • 48. On July 20th, 2008 at 11:38 pm, libra said:

    Why do you guys bother to even acknowledge Drano’s existence, much less argue with his nonsense?

    It’s like when you can’t help looking at a car wreck. But good point — I was just wondering the same thing actually…

    It’s the typical troll paradox: if you don’t refute its mutterings, it claims victory by default. But there certainly is a point of diminishing returns.

  • how better spend a slow Sunday evening troll bating?=how better spend a slow Sunday evening than troll bating?

    ….and correcting my typos.

  • I cannot understand why some say the surge is a success. If you announce that you will increase troop levels for a temporary period it makes sense for the enemy to hold back until you reduce troop levels.
    Therefore the success of the surge if true is also temporary.
    How about the cost of the surge??
    Kumar in Singapore

  • 53. On July 21st, 2008 at 2:03 am, Kumar said:

    I cannot understand why some say the surge is a success. If you announce that you will increase troop levels for a temporary period it makes sense for the enemy to hold back until you reduce troop levels.
    Therefore the success of the surge if true is also temporary.
    How about the cost of the surge??
    Kumar in Singapore

    Very good point but I’m afraid it’s a titch too nuanced to penetrate the skulls of most of the bozos who hail the ‘surge’ as an unprecedented success. The others who are capable of grasping your observation know that it’s accurate but will continue to lie shamelessly anyway.

  • This has become a war of propaganda and words. When the military becomes the mouthpiece for this administration, we are edging closer to an out an out junta by proxy, When a duly elected govt of Iraq says something counter to the US agenda- they then try to cover it up with a “mistranslation”? This has become an informational shell game. WTF! get Maliki on camera so he can repeat it to the world.

  • You are right sicko. The amazing fact in the feeble attempt by the Bush/McCain camp to rewrite the response of the Prime Minister of an allegedly sovreign nation by the U.S. Central Command is that how did they think it would even work? Sometimes I wonder how we lost to these idiots in the last two presidential elections. Then I come to my senses and remember that Gore did win in 2000 and Kerry likely won also, if we would ever fully investigate the Ohio voting fix.

  • “Typical. GOPers talk about personal responsibility, unless someone happened to agree with their decision, and then it’s all somebody else’s fault.”

    Dano – what I mean – and you demonstrate ably again, is that because Congress “had access” as you cling to – when it’s known that Congress has nowhere near the level of information that the Administration does – is that you’re excusing the terrible decisions made by the Bush Administration because somebody else agreed with them. This, to you, absolves the Bush people for all of their bad decisions. But the administration still made the decision to prosecute this war, to invade Iraq, to disband the army, to do all of the terrible, stupid things that they did that made such a hash of this mess.

    And as for Obama, another poster is right – you don’t get to decide what is and is not relevant. I have no access to intelligence documents but I knew this invasion was a bad idea. Obama, using his judgment, thought similarly.

    Whatever access the Bush people had (and its known that what they had they were making up because they set up the Defense Dept. Office of Special Plans to funnel any intelligence that confirmed their view directly to Cheney, regardless of what long-time intelligence agencies were saying), they were WRONG. Dead wrong. So wrong they couldn’t have been more wrong. And the idea that Obama was able to recognize that — without even being a member of Congress at the time, as you say — should suggest the folly of the Bush argument. It does not help your argument in the slightest.

  • As far as I can make out, The Dano Defense is:

    1. The Bush administration told everyone that they had unequivocal proof that Saddam possessed biological and chemical weapons.

    2. People believed them.

    3. The people who believed Bush are the people to blame for us currently being in Iraq.

    It’s kinda the guilt-by-gullibility argument.

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