Mark Penn’s bad weekend: ‘There won’t be a tear shed here’

The professional demise of Mark Penn, Hillary Clinton’s pollster and top campaign strategist, has been predicted, expected, and demanded for several months now, but to no avail. Despite having lost the support of key Clinton supporters and staffers, despite questionable advice and tactics, and despite fairly obvious conflicts of interest, Penn maintained the confidence of the one person who mattered: the candidate.

It took longer than expected, but lobbying to pass a Colombian trade deal that Clinton opposes turned out to be the one controversy Penn couldn’t spin out of. A day after the Colombian government fired Penn, Clinton decided to make a change, too.

Mark Penn, the pollster who has advised Bill and Hillary Clinton since 1996, stepped down under pressure on Sunday as the chief political strategist for Mrs. Clinton’s struggling presidential campaign after his private business arrangements again clashed with her campaign positions. […]

Mr. Penn’s shift — he will continue to do some polling — is the latest upheaval in a campaign that has seen its manager replaced, faced critical money shortages and has often lagged behind Senator Barack Obama of Illinois in a cohesive message and ground strategy. The move comes at a crucial juncture, just two weeks before the Pennsylvania primary on April 22, which Mrs. Clinton needs to win to keep hope of her nomination alive.

Mr. Penn’s work on the trade treaty with Colombia threatened to undercut Mrs. Clinton’s support among the blue-collar voters who are a crucial part of her base, as well as call into question the sincerity of her populist economic message.

A statement from Maggie Williams, the campaign manager, and comments from aides suggested that Mr. Penn voluntarily stepped aside, but other knowledgeable aides said that Mrs. Clinton was furious when she learned of the Colombia talks and insisted on Mr. Penn’s demotion. Mr. Clinton concurred in that judgment, aides said.

That last point is of particular interest, in that there’s some question as to whether Penn jumped or was pushed. All evidence points to the latter.

This isn’t a situation in which Clinton detractors celebrate her campaign’s internal disarray, while Clinton supporters dismiss the shake-up as trivia. If anything, it’s largely the opposite.

By all appearances, Penn had little or no support among top Clinton aides, many of whom have been pushing for his ouster since early January. With Penn out as the campaign’s top strategist, there’s already talk of improved morale at campaign headquarters.

The WSJ talked to one Clinton advisor last night who recalled that the team was saddened by the departure of Patti Solis Doyle, the senator’s former campaign manager, who was forced out several weeks ago, but Penn’s “demotion” was welcome news. “[T]here won’t be a tear shed here, I can assure you,” the advisor said.

The word “demotion” is also of interest, since it appears that Penn wasn’t actually fired — he’ll still reportedly be responsible for doing polling work for Clinton. It’s not at all clear how this is going to work, nor is it likely to “mollify influential labor groups” who don’t want Penn to be associated with the Clinton campaign at all.

Nevertheless, it’s a major development for the Clinton team, and raises a few questions:

* Will Penn still linger in the background, quietly feeding advice to the Clintons, or has he really stepped aside?

* Will the campaign now try to shift to messages and themes that haven’t been shaped by Penn?

* Is Penn’s demotion too late to really help?

* Two days before the Ohio and Texas primaries, Penn tried to argue that he had no real authority in the campaign. How quickly will he make the same argument again?

* Will any major presidential campaign ever again make the mistake of putting one person in charge of strategy and polling? (The conflict is absurd — Penn crafted a plan, and then provided his own data to show how right he was.)

* How soon will Penn actually collect the $2.5 million the campaign still owes him?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Penn is like a hangnail that keeps coming back. Hillary seems to think his advise is worth having, so I suspect she’ll keep taking it.

  • She can’t make sound choices in her campaign she can’t make sound choices for America. Her campaign full of lies, deceit, arrogance and excuses sounds just like 7 years of Bush to me. We need change & she is not it!

  • At least he still has Blackwater USA, some union busting gigs, Execlon and other paying clients.

    I’d take Samantha Powers on staff any day, I would never hire Mark Penn.

  • It will take a Herculean effort to clean out the mess left behind by Penn. He might have been considered Hils Karl Rove, but despite Karl Rove’s non existent heart, you had to give Turdblossom his due because he was competent unlike Penn.

    The Clinton Staffers might be happier (and I don’t blame them), but the real problem is that Penn wasn’t the only one undercutting Hils campaign. The other major headache is the Queen of Antiwar Sniper Dodger Anti-Free Trader herself. Considering herself a populist is almost a big a stretch.

  • I Think Former Dan makes a good point.

    Penn may be a loser and all, but ultimate it was Hillary who tried to remake her image every other week. Hillary coulda run as Hillary, instead of running as: Hillary the envitable, or as the person nobody knows, or as the crying candidate, or as the bosnian action hero, or as Hillary the fighter, etc.

  • my prediction: it’ll be business as usual in the Clinton campaign. They’ll still behave like unprincipled entitled asses, assuming the demotion of Penn will appease the supporters & mollify detractors.

  • This story has so many parallels to the Bush administration. Fire ’em, give ’em a medal of freedom, have insiders spin the story so it doesn’t look like polls are driving the decision. Next we should see Penn used as a scapegoat, not that there’s anything wrong with that. Now the question is can Bill be far behind?

  • Danp, above, has touched on what MY inquiring mind wants to know; the sentence that jumped out at me was “Mr Clinton concurred in that judgment”. What? Does every Hillary Clinton decision have to pass the Bill Clinton threshold? I understand Penn was a colleague of both Clintons, but it still looks to me like Bill has far too much input to Hillary’s decision-making loop, like he still thinks that “two for the price of one” is some kind of positive selling point. It isn’t, and he’s not doing her campaign any favours. I can’t imagine reading “Michelle Obama concurred with her husband’s decision to…” Her concurrence is assumed, she’s his wife, and doesn’t rate a sidebar of its own.

    There are serious drawbacks to being married to a former president; for some, when he doesn’t behave at all like he did when he was president – for others, when he does.

  • So, my question to Clinton supporters is, if she has to fire two top staffers from her campaign within the past six months, why are we supposed to think your candidate is capable of running and staffing an administration? Would her Cabinet have a revolving door? Would her appointees be covertly working against her policies as Penn did with the Colombian trade deal?

    Isn’t the first test of competence in a Presidential race the ability to create and manage an effective campaign? By this measure, Clinton flunks, badly.

  • What Slappy said with more snark.

    They took out the trash, but they only put it outside their door, and they’re still the same people who let the trash get so stinky in the first place. The guy worked for fucking BLACKWATER.

    Having a douchebag like Penn in a high position is very, very disturbing for me, because it says “to hell with principles, and even the appearance of principles, just do whatever it takes to win”. His hire (and retention) fit 100% with the fact that Clinton had a huge NAFTA problem (and tried to act like Obama had one), and her current position on trade looks more and more like it’s about as legit as her bosnian sniper reports. Also, the fact that Clinton/Penn have gotten away with using NAFTA as a weapon speaks volumes for the press corpse.

  • Carpetbagger:
    Will any major presidential campaign ever again make the mistake of putting one person in charge of strategy and polling? (The conflict is absurd — Penn crafted a plan, and then provided his own data to show how right he was.)

    Yes. The next Bush family candidate.

    The arrogance of certainty is a trait of those who inherit a “right” to the Presidency. Dynasties are dangerous that way. George Bush’s usurpations of power are a direct result of his father having been president. Had his father not been president, “Little Boots” would be far more meek in his willful lawbreaking. He has been emboldened by the “rights” conferred on him by his ancestry. Similarly Hillary’s presidency, had it come to birth, would have seen similar injurious assumptions of inherited power. Call it: Arrogance from Day 1.

    Barack on the other hand, and even McCain, will be far more respectful. Neither will willfully smash up traditions with initial abusive power grabs. Barack even more so than McCain of course. I suspect he will walk the halls of the White House almost on reverential tiptoes for a while.

    I am looking forward to that sort of historical sense and innocence.
    The country, and the world, desperately needs that sort of human balance again.

  • Will any major presidential campaign ever again make the mistake of putting one person in charge of strategy and polling?

    I think the problem was not so much the number of hats being worn as it was the head that was wearing them.

    Two comments: 1, this is far too late to matter, and 2, the cossacks work for the czar. (i.e. Hillary is the one who hired and kept this guy on for as long as she has. It was obvious to us outsiders for the entire campaign that he was sleazy. She had to know it too.)

    At this point the only meaningful decision left to the Clinton campaign is when they get out of the way of the actual nominee, Barack Obama. The rest is just them working through their own personal psychodrama.

  • * How soon will Penn actually collect the $2.5 million the campaign still owes him?

    If there’s any justice, he won’t see dime one until all the vendors they owe have been paid.

    And then they should pay him in day-old donuts.

  • As usual the Clinton trashers are blaming Hillary for what is not her fault. How could she know that Penn had Colombia as a client? Running for president is a full time job and she is too busy to have to be looking into everything her staff is doing. She believed, because she believes in people, that he had her best interests at heart. It’s not the first time a man has brazenly lied to a woman because he thought he could get away with it, and it won’t be the last.

  • Had his father not been president, “Little Boots” would be far more meek in his willful lawbreaking.

    If his dad hadn’t been president, the little shit would never have even been considered for the nomination. However if you look at the rest of the GOP field for 2000, the others were no different; they were all wingnut fanatics bent on authoritarianism.

    even McCain, will be far more respectful.

    I wish. This problem is part of the DNA of the modern Republican party.

  • How soon will Penn actually collect the $2.5 million the campaign still owes him?

    Obama might consider spotting it to Penn, given everything Penn has done for him.

  • I’ve had to keep asking myself during the past seven years whether various actions taken and statements made by those in the Bush II Administration were motivated primarily by stupidity, lunacy, evil, or some toxic mixture of all three.

    In a Clinton II administration it looks like I’d be asking myself the same question.

  • Now, when will Hillary step down ? This is really becoming pathetic. Yes Clinton supporters… we all know that Hillary has every ‘right’ to stay on … just NO good reason at all. What she is effectively saying Now is that she is willing to sacrifice the Democratic Party’s chances in November to insure her leverage to petition for the VP slot. That’s pretty Sleazy politicking Clinton supporters and you know damn well it is. What does that make YOU at this point?

  • Insane Fake Professor half beat me to my point, which was that Mr. Penn’s day job wasn’t exactly a secret. It seems like lobbying for positions diametric to Hon. Sen. Clinton is hunk-dory just as long as one doesn’t go abroad and get in the paper. Even after the first blush of this flap, Mr. Penn did not say that he lobbying was a mistake, only that the trip looked bad. This is my objection to the Clintons in a nutshell: all optics all the time; the permanent campaign as governance.

  • “Barack on the other hand, and even McCain, will be far more respectful.” (#11)

    I see what you’re saying, ROTFLMLiberalAO, and I agree with most of it. But I’m not so sure of McCain. I think he’s much like Hillary, and the current Bush for that matter. They all, except for Barack, have a sense of it being their destiny to take the presidency.

    The fact that Bush and McCain are both embarrassments from the point of view of their fathers and grandfathers doesn’t alter it. They’re not so much “redeemed” by the presidency as able to spit on their family traditions because of it. Bush can say to his father: see? I may have been a legacy C-student and failure in business, and I may have dodged the draft by accepting a privileged position in the National Guard and then never showing up, but I got re-elected and you didn’t. McCain can say to his people You may have been four-star admirals while I finished fifth from the bottom of my Academy class of eight hundred ninety-nine, but I got elected Commander-in-Chief.

    Barack is the only one for whom the presidency seems both the completion of his own personal potential and yet a prize to be respected and appreciated rather than expected.

  • These are the magic words:

    lobbying to pass a Colombian trade deal that Clinton opposes

    It is important to remember that there is ample evidence to show that Clinton was 100% pro-NAFTA, until it became politically expedient to flip. Given this, it might be a wise step to “reconfigure” the above quote, thus:

    lobbying to pass a Colombian trade deal that Clinton “publicly” opposes

    The reason for such a change is simple: This “trade deal with the Colombians” didn’t come into existence overnight; it’s been around for a while, and it’s probably safe to say that Penn’s company has been working on it for a while.

    A LONG while.

    If we unfold this just a little bit, the premise leads to one of two particular conclusions, suggesting either that (1) Clinton herself didn’t have any problem with Penn’s “Colombia Connection” until it became public (suggesting the subterfuge of the already-established practice of “say-this-do-that”), or that (2) Clinton has absolutely no idea what senior members of her staff are up to (suggesting gross incompetence and an elemental disconnect from factual reality).

    Either conclusion is the basis for this candidate—Clinton—to be deemed unqualified for the presidency. We’ve suffered over 7 years of such, and a spineless Congress dooms us to nearly yet another year of it; we do not need another 4 years of such disingenuous defiling of the Executive branch of the Republic.

  • Birds of a feather flock togeather

    The Clintons have a long financial relationship with mark Penn, they have big plans if hillary is elected. They will make millions from lobbyist.
    Bill is the first SUPER LOBBYIST AND hILLARY WILL BE THE SECOND.

    Bill is the first president to become a SUPER LOBBYIST he is also the first president to make a fortune it.

    There a lot of corporations that would like to have an Ex-president in their pocket who wife is The President. Bill will be making million dollar speeches while claiming it has nothing to do with lobbying. Are we the American people suppose to be that ignorant?

  • Will Penn still linger in the background, quietly feeding advice to the Clintons,…?

    The answer is yes. And that’s the continuing tragedy here.

  • Well, just to be fair, I think it is pretty clear that no primaries that occurred before Penn was fired should count.

  • Will the campaign now try to shift to messages and themes that haven’t been shaped by Penn?

    No.

    Although these messages and themes may have been shaped by Penn, they’re ultimately a reflection of the candidate herself.

  • Hillary has run a bad campaign from the start.I hope with Penn gone things smooth out so she can win.We don’t need a high tempered OLD man like McCain and we certainly don’t need an empty suit like Obama in these troubled times. What’s strange to me is every little thing every slip of the tongue from Hillary and the media got wild and repeat,repeat and repeat. Yet Obama’s ties to a criminal on trial in Chicago his voting present 130 times while a state Rep. his wife not liking this country get about a day’s play then the media are anointing him as if he is the second comming.If you want another disaster vote for Obama because that’s what you will get he is all talk no substance

  • TPM

    Statement from [Hillary’s campaign manager] Maggie Williams —

    “After the events of the last few days, Mark Penn has asked to give up his role as Chief Strategist of the Clinton Campaign; Mark, and Penn, Schoen and Berland Associates, Inc. will continue to provide polling and advice to the campaign.

    Geoff Garin and Howard Wolfson will coordinate the campaign’s strategic message team going forward.”

    This media show is horseshit. Penn is still on the payroll. He’s still advising. And he’s still polling to provide his own data “to show how right he was”. In short, this resignation stuff is just another big lie from the Hillary camp.

  • “dawnt” over at Daily Kos has a recommended diary up about this: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/6/20620/63110

    Quoting from a story in The Nation:
    After the events of the last few days, Mark Penn has asked to give up his role as Chief Strategist of the Clinton Campaign; Mark, and Penn, Schoen and Berland Associates, Inc. will continue to provide polling and advice to the campaign. Geoff Garin and Howard Wolfson will coordinate the campaign’s strategic message team going forward.

    dawnt’s highlighting:
    Notice that Garin and Wolfson will only be coordinating the message. They won’t be developing it, creating it, or managing it. Huge difference. Ask anyone who’s worked in middle or upper management — these words are chosen very carefully, and coordinating is a much lesser role.

    Read it all – it’s not long – and it has some action items at the end, including contacting press in Pennsylvania…

  • Clyde (#28),

    Enough of the Rezco and present vote stuff. Contrary to your characterization, Obama’s ties to Rezco have been thoroughly vetted. There’s just nothing there. Second, and this has been discussed repeated here and elsewhere, voting present in the Illinois legislature is a procedural matter and not some duck and cover strategy.

    Third, to characterize Obama as an empty suit is way beyond disengenuous. The man has a law degree and lectured on constitutional law, worked as a community organizer when he could have made millions working for some high priced law firm, crafted useful legislation while in the Illinois senate (such as mandating videotaping all police interrogations), spoke out against invading Iraq, has several published books…and oh yeah, he delivers a pretty good speech too.

    You may not prefer him as the Democratic Party nominee–and I can respect that choice–but please don’t deny his accomplishments out of hand.

  • PulSamsara, This contest, if you will, is STILL neck in neck. She STILL has more superdelegates. The polls are very favorable for HER. It must be that you have already voted, so you feel the rest of the country should’nt be allowed to. One thing you should think about is the dems will have no chance at all if Obama in nominated. The republicans are fully aware of this so they will continue to shove him down your throat. HILLARY 08

  • How is someone supposed to effect change when people involved in her campaign at the highest level are working for those entrenched parties who will be negatively affected by the very changes being espoused?

    Combine this with Bill’s income from consulting with Middle Eastern oil producing nations who are screwing us at the gas pump, and the double dealing appearance of a conflict of interest is quite obvious.

    This is classic Clinton – “listen to what we say but ignore what we do.”

    I suspect that a lot of people in Pennsylvania are rethinking their support of someone who talks about change on the one hand, and enriches themselves from the status quo on the other.

  • The Clinton camp looks to be full of crap on this one. Penn got caught doing something that put Hillary in a bind. Rather than taking the opportunity to actually fire his worthless ass and perhaps improve her odds in the last few months of her campaign, she “demotes” him in title, but keeps him on for advise and polling. Basically, scolding him in public while nothing much in private changes.

    If Hillary was unhappy with Mark Penn, and looking for an out,this was it. This was a way to fire him served up on a silver platter, but rather than take it and make a clean break under the only circumstance that looks like she’s doing the right thing in the moment, she bunts it.

    The Clintons are, for whatever reason, addicted to Mark Penn, like a nasty drug habit they just can’t kick.

    I’d have a lot more respect for Hillary if she could break that addiction. After her handling of this current Penn situation, it doesn’t look like she can.

  • his voting present 130 times while a state Rep.

    Spare us. Hillary didn’t bother to show up for the telecom immunity vote in the US senate just last month.

  • Question to the Hillistines: If I create a video of all the Clintonian screw-ups—just from the “Hillary-for-chimpfuhrer” campaign, mind you, and not including all of the pre-2006 stuff—and then apply the audio-track of a wild boar being unmercifully sucked into a great big humongous meatgrinder, would you pay good money for an admission ticket?

    Well, of course you wouldn’t. Why pay for something when the whole blasted world is watching it for free? And besides—Bu$h is already pushing Congress to hurry up and approve the Colombian trade deal—so please don’t go on about how “your candidate” didn’t know anything about the Penn involvement; the world already knows how much of a lie that is.

    *Sounds of bone-crunching, gut-wrenching squealing, and machine motors humming ensue….

  • This isn’t a situation in which Clinton detractors celebrate her campaign’s internal disarray

    I have to admit, I do celebrate her campaign’s disarray, since it gives people the chance to see what a sham the Clintons really are – all smoke and mirrors and no substance ever.

    But it does make me sad to watch Hillary’s incompetence damage the cause of feminism the way her incompetence damaged the cause of health care 15 years ago.

  • But it does make me sad to watch Hillary’s incompetence damage the cause of feminism the way her incompetence damaged the cause of health care 15 years ago.

    I’d call that going a bit far on two fronts. First, Clinton hasn’t damaged the entire cause of feminism, for heaven’s sake, although she’s certainly set back the cause of women seeking to be president. I expect even that won’t have much lasting fallout, except among people who never intended/intend to vote for a woman anyway. Although random sexism has actually been quite prevalent in this campaign season, the great majority of Clinton’s detractors rightfully point to her own outrageous behavior and campaign incompetence as the reason for her losing. People generally are able to separate their dislike of the Clintons in general and of Hillary Clinton in particular from the notion that she represents all women who aspire to higher office.

    Second, although Clinton could have handled the health-care situation much more effectively 15 years ago–losing the arrogant my-way-or-the-highway attitude that turns so many people off, for just one example–I’d argue that the nation was in a very different place 15 years ago, and almost any Dem’s efforts on that front were likely to fail (although not, perhaps, as spectacularly as Clinton’s did). I’m more inclined to blame her for not learning from her mistakes than I am to hold a grudge for ones she made 15 years ago. We have ample current example of her sense of entitlement, failures to play well with/listen to others, and apparent inability to change course when she makes an error.

  • They haven’t actually let him go. He’s scheduled to be part of the run-up planning teleconferences for the Philly debate; he’s still advising and spinning and babbling like a drunken prairie dog; he’s still on the Clinton campaign’s payroll as a member of the senior staff.

    Smoke and mirrors on steroids—only in HillaryLand*

    *A pathetically-cheap imitation of a run-down, seasonal amusement park that’s been out of business for twenty-five years—trees growing up through the roller coaster, collapsed midway booths, a few arson-gutted buildings, and the rusted-out remnants of a ferris wheel.

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