Mayor, you’re no Jack Kennedy

Richard Cohen is often wrong about a great number of things, but this is just silly.

In this already dismal presidential campaign, where nary an original idea has been broached, Rudy Giuliani said something remarkable the other day. When asked if he is a “traditional, practicing, Roman Catholic,” the former mayor of New York essentially told the questioner to shove off. His religion, he said, was his own private affair.

This bold statement, as old as thought but as modern as today, was downright refreshing in its reverent plea for spiritual privacy. “My religious affiliation, my religious practices and the degree to which I am a good or not so good Catholic, I prefer to leave to the priests,” Giuliani said. […]

Whether Giuliani knew it or not, he was echoing something John F. Kennedy said back in 1960. Kennedy, only the second Roman Catholic presidential nominee — Al Smith of New York had been the first — gave an oft-cited speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association in which he declared that he was not, as he put it, “the Catholic candidate for president” but the “Democratic Party’s candidate for president who happens also to be a Catholic.” In this way, Kennedy was attempting to rebut the bigoted smear that he would, if president, be taking orders from the Vatican.

JFK’s 1960 speech was a beautiful piece of work. Though it seems odd in retrospect, there was a genuine national discussion at the time about the whether a Roman Catholic could be an effective president, free of undue influence (or threats) from the Vatican. Kennedy articulated a forceful and uncompromising defense for the separation of church and state, and vowed that his presidential decisions would be “in accordance with what my conscience tells me to be the national interest, and without regard to outside religious pressures or dictates, and no power or threat of punishment could cause me to decide otherwise.”

Giuliani’s response, which Cohen is so fond of, was a political dodge, meant to divert attention from a scandalous personal life and evidence of a weak character. Nothing more, nothing less.

There was nothing “bold” about it. Republican primary voters routinely take an active interest in their leaders’ religious beliefs, and Giuliani has been subtly inserting more religious language into his stump speeches and debate responses.

Asked, however, if he is a “traditional, practicing, Roman Catholic,” Giuliani was uncomfortable, so he steered clear of the topic altogether. To answer the question would be to acknowledge Giuliani’s multiple marriages, adultery, and his general disinterest in matters of faith. It would, in other words, run counter to GOP orthodoxy.

To consider this Kennedy-esque is rather silly. In 1960, JFK’s point was that he, as president, would put religious interests aside and act in the nation’s (secular) interests. In 2007, Giuliani’s point was he, as a candidate, doesn’t want to talk about his Achilles’ heel. Cohen sees these perspectives as practically identical. They’re not.

Let’s put it this way: if Giuliani could have answered the question about being a “traditional, practicing, Roman Catholic” in the affirmative, wouldn’t he? Or does anyone seriously belief his response was based solely on a deeply-held principle about separating religion and politics?

Richard. Cohen. Is. A. Moron.

Repeat as necessary.

  • Steve, I agree with what you said as far as it goes about Roodee, but even a lousy messenger sometimes delivers the right message. His motives may be suspect, but every candidate of every political, religious, or nonreligious stripe should say essentially the same thing (adapted to one’s particular belief or lack thereof) whenever the topic comes up.

  • If ReThugs believe that Bush = Churchill, it wouldn’t surprise me that they’d try to push the idea that RudE = JFK.

    Here, by way of comparison is RG’s quote:

    “My religious affiliation, my religious practices and the degree to which I am a good or not so good Catholic, I prefer to leave to the priests,” Giuliani said. “That would be a much better way to discuss it. That’s a personal discussion and they have a much better sense of how good a Catholic I am or how bad a Catholic I am.”

    Intersting that Cohen didn’t run the entire quote in his piece (of dreck). Could it be he realized the quote blew his entire thesis to smithereens?

  • So CB, what you are saying is Rudy said the right things for the wrong reasons.

    Not that JFK was a saint by any means… he didn’t have a “scandalous personal life” at all with an slightly popular actress and model. Was JFK a “traditional, practicing, Roman Catholic?”

  • “My religious affiliation, my religious practices and the degree to which I am a good or not so good Catholic, I prefer to leave to the priests,” Giuliani said. “That would be a much better way to discuss it. That’s a personal discussion and they have a much better sense of how good a Catholic I am or how bad a Catholic I am.”

    Hasn’t the number 1 priest, the Pope (and his minion), already made the decision as to how good a Catholic Benito Giuliani is? I thought the Vatican already stated that anyone who votes for candidates who support choice/abortion or who himself supports choice/abortion should be denied communion and is not a good Catholic. I also think there are similar comments from the High Primate himself regarding gay issues. The priests have already said people should not vote for Benito due to his beliefs.

  • I agree with Zeitgeist @ #3. What Rudy says is fine by me. But to compare that with JFK is to get on the UFO with Elvis and go searching for bigfoot.

  • Interesting that Giuliani has changed his tune from when he was mayor of New York, famously wearing his Catholicism on his sleeve by threatening to withhold city funding for the Brooklyn Museum of Art over a brouhaha about an exhibit which included an interpretation of the Virgin Mary incorporating the use of, among other things, elephant dung. Quoth the Rude One at the time: ”Where it comes to Catholic bashing, this kind of thing is never treated as sensitively as it sometimes is in other areas,” Mr. Giuliani, a Roman Catholic, said on his radio show, on WABC-AM. ”If this were a desecration of a symbol in another area, I think there would be more sensitivity about this than a desecration of a symbol that involves Catholics.”

    Funny how being Catholic was so important to him then to the point where he was basing city policy on it, but he’s trying to hide it now. I guess being a Catholic doesn’t play well among the GOP bigots in South Carolina.

  • A candidate’s religious beliefs should be entirely relevant to intelligent voters.

    If JFK had been the sort of Catholic who would have taken orders from his local bishop when threatened with denial of communion (as Kerry was threatened in 2004), wouldn’t the public have a right to know that? If a candidate believes that he is on a mission from God to end abortion in America by any means necessary, would we have a right to know that? Is a candidate’s opinion of Darwin vs. Genesis (or science vs. faith) important to you? If a candidate believes that long-term environmental concerns don’t matter because Armageddon is just around the corner anyway, would you want to know that?

  • So CB, what you are saying is Rudy said the right things for the wrong reasons.

    No, he’s saying Cohen is a hack.

  • “Though it seems odd in retrospect, there was a genuine national discussion at the time….”

    At that time I practically jumped out of my skin watching/hearing JFK telling church leaders, including his own bishops, where to get off. That speech virtually did away with the Eisenhower era print cartoons I saw growing up showing a tiara-ed pope in the Vatican controlling puppet strings leading to the capitol dome.

    Now that the Church has become very active in politics — instructing its parishioners who and what to vote for and threatening excommunication — I’m not so sure anymore. When I realize that the five-member majority on the Supreme Court is conservative Roman Catholic I become very concerned. Just last month the current pope stated something which got Fr. Leonard Feeney excommunicated back in the Eisenhower era: that there is no salvation outside the Roman Catholic Church. Shudder.

  • “Giuliani’s response, which Cohen is so fond of, was a political dodge, meant to divert attention from a scandalous personal life and evidence of a weak character.”

    Funny, I’ve never heard CB point out Bill Clinton’s scandalous personal life as evidence of a weak character!

  • Funny, I thought that Rudolf’s religion was the Church of 9/11. He is, after all, it’s most prominent Evangelist.

    But like Rudolf said, “Thank God that George W. Bush is our [Acting] President.”

  • WTF? Some of you seem to be missing the point. Rudy’s response had nothing to do with separation of church and state but rather if he paid any attention to the moral code of his professed faith.

    I was a child in parochial school when Kennedy was elected and the nuns were just ecstatic that we finally got a Catholic in as president as if somehow things would be different now. I guess the difference is that Catholicism is a religious faith but morality deals with personal character and Guiliani’s case deals with hypocrisy as he tries to garner support from the (so called) “Christian” right wing base.
    Really though, I would think his videos and the pictures of him in drag would be enough to sink him with this group.

  • Didn’t Rudee say (fairly recently, but not as recently as this latest “none of your beeswax, how strong my faith is”) that his (past) official attitude towards abortions didn’t matter because, as President, he’d appoint Supreme Justices who’d finish demolishing Roe vs Wade? In essence, it’s the perfect *opposite* of what Kennedy was saying. Kennedy was saying he’d keep the faith and the state separated.Giulia is saying that he’ll mingle the two inextricably.

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