McCain and Russia and China … oh my

When John McCain delivered his high-profile speech on his foreign policy vision about a month ago, the usual suspects swooned. The NYT’s David Brooks said it was “as personal, nuanced and ambitious a speech as any made by a presidential candidate this year.” He was especially impressed with McCain’s perspective on how best to treat some of the country’s biggest rivals: “McCain noted that we are not only fighting a war on terror. The world is seeing a growing split between liberal democracies and growing autocracies. We are seeing a world in which great power rivalries — with China, Russia and Iran — have to be managed and soothed.”

Likewise, the WaPo’s David Broder was predictably impressed, arguing that McCain’s vision “might heal the wounds left here at home and abroad by the past seven years.”

In the new issue of Newsweek, Fareed Zakaria has a more detailed look at how McCain specifically perceives the future of U.S. relations with China and Russia.

[McCain’s] contained within it the most radical idea put forward by a major candidate for the presidency in 25 years. Yet almost no one noticed.

In his speech McCain proposed that the United States expel Russia from the G8, the group of advanced industrial countries. Moscow was included in this body in the 1990s to recognize and reward it for peacefully ending the cold war on Western terms, dismantling the Soviet empire and withdrawing from large chunks of the old Russian Empire as well. McCain also proposed that the United States should expand the G8 by taking in India and Brazil — but pointedly excluded China from the councils of power.

We have spent months debating Barack Obama’s suggestion that he might, under some circumstances, meet with Iranians and Venezuelans. It is a sign of what is wrong with the foreign-policy debate that this idea is treated as a revolution in U.S. policy while McCain’s proposal has barely registered.

Quite right, there is an odd imbalance in the discourse. When Obama addresses international issues, he’s looked at with a skeptical eye. So, when he suggests he would not use nuclear weapons to attack al Qaeda camps along Pakistan’s border with Afghanistan, it’s perceived as some kind of gaffe. When he raises the specter of discussions with rival heads of state, the establishment feels comfortable questioning his foreign policy judgment.

But when McCain talks openly about poking China and Russia with a large point stick, the establishment thinks, “Well, he’s John McCain. He must know what he’s talking about.”

The consequences of his vision deserve to be scrutinized in far more detail.

What McCain has announced is momentous — that the United States should adopt a policy of active exclusion and hostility toward two major global powers. It would reverse a decades-old bipartisan American policy of integrating these two countries into the global order, a policy that began under Richard Nixon (with Beijing) and continued under Ronald Reagan (with Moscow). It is a policy that would alienate many countries in Europe and Asia who would see it as an attempt by Washington to begin a new cold war. […]

The single most important security problem that the United States faces is securing loose nuclear materials. A terrorist group can pose an existential threat to the global order only by getting hold of such material. We also have an interest in stopping proliferation, particularly by rogue regimes like Iran and North Korea. To achieve both of these core objectives — which would make American safe and the world more secure — we need Russian cooperation. How fulsome is that likely to be if we gratuitously initiate hostilities with Moscow? Dissing dictators might make for a stirring speech, but ordinary Americans will have to live with the complications after the applause dies down.

To reorder the G8 without China would be particularly bizarre. The G8 was created to help coordinate problems of the emerging global economy. Every day these problems multiply — involving trade, pollution, currencies — and are in greater need of coordination. To have a body that attempts to do this but excludes the world’s second largest economy is to condemn it to failure and irrelevance. International groups are not cheerleading bodies but exist to help solve pressing global crises. Excluding countries won’t make the problems go away.

Zakaria, whose work I generally like, is pretty widely respected among the chattering class, so it’s my hope that a column like this will at least put a kernel of doubt in the minds of those who assume McCain is credible and knowledgeable on foreign policy. He isn’t.

As for the politics, in the grand scheme of things, McCain’s intention to spark a new round of hostilities with China and Russia is more than a little weightier than whether Barack Obama might pursue diplomacy with Ahmadinejad.

CB, I’m tellin’ ya. McCain is the darling of the media. He will be president, it has already been decided.

  • Of course, McCain will flip flop when he is told that China owns a significant chunk of US debt that funds the war in Iraq he loves and the war with Iran he wants then he will break out his kneepads and start licking, er, boots.

  • We need to keep some sort of “McCain ‘oh, my’ database” (Or a data warehouse, if necessary) – the list just keeps growing…

  • What is going to happen is that the US will be the ones who are looked at as the pariah of the world. It will be us who are excluded. We are an autocracy!

    And how can someone take seriously that it could possibly be a good thing to drop nukes anywhere in the world?

    Amazingly stupid thinking. And the MSM eat it up.

  • McNutjob has probably been made aware of the fact that the remaining supply of oil in the middle east isn’t large enough for us to share it on an open market, and how our “enduring” bases are being built to threaten any supplier in the region should they decide to sell to the highest bidder instead of the bidder with the most advanced attack aircraft.

    Every world war so far has been largely fought over oil, and right now the oil supply is peaking. What we are seeing makes sense when you see the figures on supply and future demand of the greatest source of energy ever found on the planet.

  • This brilliant new idea of McCain’s may have something to do with the arrival of a new baatch of neo-con advisors like John Bolton, Robert Kagan and Max Boot. For a guy whose expertise is supposed to be foreign policy, he seems more Grandpa in his slippers and robe being led from the middle of a busy highway.

  • “Of course, McCain will flip flop when he is told that China owns a significant chunk of US debt that funds the war in Iraq he loves and the war with Iran he wants”

    I have a feeling he’ll never understand that no matter how its explained to him. McCain just wants to act tough. He’s like a little boy playing soldier (except he’s a terminal-looking old man). The problem with Barack Obama’s foreign policy positions is that he requires people to think and reason. Alot of people are too stupid or lazy or both to bother. The Bush/McCain/Republican foreign policy position is so gutteral that it appeals to the basest instincts of the largely uninvolved. Its no coincident that Hillary Clinton spoke of anhiliting Iran. She was playing to the cheap seat, and let’s face, there are alot more cheap seats.

  • Why doesn’t John just say we hate everybody and everything … and we’ll wage war on the rest of the world for at least the next 100 years.

    Today’s Republicans have really drifted off the reservation. Nixon and Kissinger were at least sensible enough to advance the idea of detante and even St. Ronnie was advocating for deescalation. If only Reagan were alive today to tell the Republican nominee, “Mr. McCain, tear down this wall you’re wanting to build around the US.”

  • Check out this blog post on Stephen Biegun, McCain’s brain on Russia. Given that he is a VP of the Ford Motor Company, which is heavily involved in Russia, one might expect that the campaign is playing up Russia policy more than the actual substance if he gets elected. The bark is worse than the bite, as it were…

  • How can a press corp that lacks understanding and critical thinking possibly do anything but cheer on McCain. The whole premise is wrong. McCain has been wrong every step of the way on Iraq and has demonstrated that he is willing to do anything that promotes war profiteering no matter how stupid the politics are surrounding it. So where does anyone get the idea that he is a serious foreign policy expert when he lacks even a good basic understanding of our standing in the world and our relationship to others. America is increasingly being viewed as an imperialistic military nation poicing the world for our own profit. Excluding major powers from global efforts to maintain peace and commerce is ludicrous and shows once again that McCain doesn’t have any idea what he’s talking about. It equates to him saying “America is the greatest country in the world and now we will prove it” in order to get applause but without any substantive plan to back it up. McCain is hardly credible on foreign policy issues and years of being wrong does not make him an expert.

  • I’m glad this got called out. When I read a transcript of the speech I was completely weirded out by that part (among others). Ignoring China and Russia is at best ignorant, and at most openly hostile and stupid. They’re players, like ’em or not, and it’s better to play with them in the system we all margially agree to.

    I’d expect after this another McCain flip-flop – the problem being which side he eventually lands on.

    And that’s the problem with McCain. We literally can’t get an idea of what he’s going to do since he changes his mind, policies, and statements constantly.

  • Oh, please, folks. You’re being unfair to poor St. McCain. It doesn’t matter who we’re at war with — Iraq, Iran, Russia, China — it only matters that the war be endless, a permanent state from which the country never emerges. That way, money can be transferred directly from taxpayers to the wealthy and well-connected with no pesky domestic programs benefiting ordinary citizens getting in the way. After four years of St. McCain, our whole economy will be geared to this and the draft will be reinstated (after another convenient domestic terrorist attack) to provide human fodder for the war without end. It’s why Bush was “elected” and why McCain will be “elected.” Our new fascist state, an unholy marriage of the military and the corporate, is already in place and anybody who’s under the delusion that someone besides its pre-selected candidate will win the general election is dreaming of an America that ceased to exist in the year 2000.

  • John McCain, October 19, 1993:

    “…Dates certain, Mr. President, are not the criteria here. What is the criteria and what should be the criteria is our immediate, orderly withdrawal from Somalia. And if we do not do that and other Americans die, other Americans are wounded, other Americans are captured because we stay too long–longer than necessary–then I would say that the responsibilities for that lie with the Congress of the United States who did not exercise their authority under the Constitution of the United States and mandate that they be brought home quickly and safely as possible. . . .

    I know that this debate is going to go on this afternoon and I have a lot more to say, but the argument that somehow the United States would suffer a loss to our prestige and our viability, as far as the No. 1 superpower in the world, I think is baloney. The fact is, we won the cold war. The fact is, we won the Persian Gulf conflict. And the fact is that the United States is still the only major world superpower.

    I can tell you what will erode our prestige. I can tell you what will hurt our viability as the world’s superpower, and that is if we enmesh ourselves in a drawn-out situation which entails the loss of American lives, more debacles like the one we saw with the failed mission to capture Aideed’s lieutenants, using American forces, and that then will be what hurts our prestige.

    We suffered a terrible tragedy in Beirut, Mr. President; 240 young marines lost their lives, but we got out. Now is the time for us to get out of Somalia as rapidly and as promptly and as safely as possible.

    I, along with many others, will have an amendment that says exactly that. It does not give any date certain. It does not say anything about any other missions that the United States may need or feels it needs to carry out. It will say that we should get out as rapidly and orderly as possible….”

    Along with many other republican senators demanding withdrawal of our military involvement in Somalia. I guess he sure thought the congress should have the right to end our involvement then but when a republican sits in the WH well then, we should just follow whatever he decides. McCain is an opportunist willing to flip flop on any of his positions to gain power. And in 1993 he still had a functioning brain that could remember where he put his car keys. Now he couldn’t tell you if a Sunni or a Shiite had them, just that they must be in Iran. People should be laughing at the idea of a McCain presidency.

  • citizen_pain said: “CB, I’m tellin’ ya. McCain is the darling of the media. He will be president, it has already been decided.”

    Poor delusional person.

    The Republican’ts don’t WANT McCain to win! Diebold will fix it so he loses in November because:

    1) Despite the loon claims of Charles Krauthammer that General Petraus will win us Iraq, they know the war is lost. They have to get out of the White House before it all falls apart so they can blame us godless liberals for losing the war and hang that around our neck for another generation (Vietnam has finally rotted away).

    2) The McCain mavericky has to be punished as only losing the White House can punish it. The Republican’ts hate McCain not because of his positions, which are all conservative after all, but because he actually stands up to them. They can’t tolerate that in a politician.

    3) It’s safe to give the Democrats the White House for four years. America is so saddled with debts and wars they figure the Democrats can’t do anything seriously dangerous. Not to mention the expiring Bush Tax cuts coming up for renewal in 2010 will give the Republican’ts a wonderful campaign issue for the off year elections.

    As for Zakaria’s commentary. He calls kicking Russia out of the G8 as if it were an act of war. Really? Russia didn’t really qualify for the G7 when it was a democracy. Now that it’s a oil-autocracy it qualifies even less. There is no doubt that McCain is spitting in the eye of Russia (and China) and this should be an issue discussed in the media and the campaign, but that’s hardly the equivelent of committing an act of war on them.

    Trying to get the democracies of the world working together is certainly a good thing. But it is amusing to note that during the Bushite Administration America would send delegations to international conferences on children’s rights or family issue right out of the wing-nut base who would prefer to caucus with the likes of Saudi Arabia and Sudan than our Western democracy allies.

    Is McCain going to stop doing that?

  • The security industry is bigger than Hollywood or the Music industry now and “more wars” McCain doesn’t want that bubble to burst, so he will do everything in his power to create the demand for increased surveillance and security by making enemies of the world. We will need China when Blackwater recruits Chinese soldiers to “protect” us from terrorists.

  • I will join Lance in the minority here.

    While McCain is generally nuts, the idea of kicking Russia out of the G8 is not nuts at all — even though it would be poking them with a sharp stick.

    Historically it is true that Russia was allowed in as a recognition of their reforms toward more openness, non-warmongering, limited capitalism, and limited democracy. Given that, it is hard to see why that reward would not be revoked given the massive backsliding in each of those areas under Putin. The West has done nothing – not one useful thing (handwringing doesn’t count) – to counter Putin’s massive anti-democratic, anti-civil liberties consolidations of power. If being at least marginally a democracy is a common denominator for G7/G8 admission, how on earth does Putin and Post-Putin Russia minimally qualify?

  • But Mark and Lance, couldn’t the same be a good reason for the other members to kick us out of the G8? What exactly have we done in the last 7 years to prove we’re a democracy? What have we done toward any sort of “public weel” as they used to say?

    I can see getting India and Brazil in, though. Wow, one thing I agree with McCain about.

    And honestly, don’t you all think that our executive branch has been well and truly pwned by the Russian’s the Chinese and even the Iranians? Western Europe is able to do very little about Russia becoming much less democratic, Russia provides them with much heating oil. We can’t do anything about China, the human rights violations, the horrible pollution, even when they kill our pets, poison our medicines and toothpaste etc, they own us and will for years.

    They voted against Dear Gerogie’s and Johnnire’s excellent Iraqi adventure and then sat back and slowly smiled as it all turned to hell.

  • Dee Loralei said: “But Mark and Lance, couldn’t the same be a good reason for the other members to kick us out of the G8? What exactly have we done in the last 7 years to prove we’re a democracy? What have we done toward any sort of “public weel” as they used to say?”

    If there were a ten point democracy scale I wouldn’t put us at more than an Eight.

    We recruit seventeen year olds to the Military.

    We have far too many Americans in prison.

    We can’t seem to run a fair, honest and transparent election.

    We have a legislative body (the Senate) that allows representatives of 17% of our population veto legislation.

    We have far too many citizens without voting representation in our national legislature.

    I’m sure you could add a few (the merits of a two-party system should always be considered in the light of Italian parlimentarian instability).

    Do we deserve to be in the G7? Do we deserve to lead the Democratic nations of the world?

    Hard to say.

  • That said, it is pretty extreme relativism to put us in Putinville. Bush never had Kerry arrested and jailed. The government doesn’t completely run the press (hey, the managed to get the domestic spying suppressed by NYT for a year, but not forever).

    And, as a matter of Realpolitik, the G7 is our club, so if we aren’t in it, it likely falls apart for lack of funding (and because Western Europe still feels like it needs our umbrella of protection).

    That we aren’t perfect should not give Putin a pass, nor should it give Bush a pass for the fact that Russia lost its progress toward democracy on his watch.

  • Under McCain America’s image abroad will be completely tarnished especially after 8 yrs of bush. Although McCain presents himself has a foreign policy guy he has more to learn. Here is why, McCain’s foreign policy is tabled on the notion that America will only intervene in conflicts where Americas interest will be at risk. Thats sounds like something I heard time and again. Will that be good for Americas security? This policy will give more ground to terrorists to recruit and strengthen like never before. For instance, neglecting conflicts in Radical Muslim leaning nations like Somali has given grounds for terrorist organizations. How can you explain the presence of Libyan young radicals fighting for Al-qaeda in Iraq? All these are forces that will be in play in order to secure America and ammericans living abroad

  • Russia is a Superpower again. This NATO expansion in post Soviet countries is a direct violation again Russia when the US former president Ronald Reagan promised Russia back in 1989, that they would not allow NATO membership to post Soviet countries and that agreement has been clearly violated by the US & NATO and Bilderberg.

    I support Russia and if it needs to overthrow George & Ukraine (widely higher Russian anyway) of putting NATO in Russia’s backyard, I praise Russia to go in and take them out and over throw these countries to say to the world, that the this private iron curtin called NATO will not invade anymore post soviet union countries. NATO is a threat and people don’t understand what NATO is doing and how they threaten & lie to countries. Google Bilderberg & NATO and find out the new cold war of the West is doing.

    Russia is a Superpower again, ref link here:
    http://www.kommersant.com/page.asp?id=768929

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