McCain to follow bin Laden to the gates of hell — unless the gates are in Pakistan

July 29, 2008

John McCain appeared via satellite with CNN’s Larry King last night, and the two covered a fair amount of ground in a short amount of time. There were a handful of important exchanges, but this was arguably the most striking.

For those of you who can’t watch clips online, TPM first showed McCain vowing to follow Osama bin Laden to “the gates of hell.” Then, from the CNN interview, King asked McCain what he’d do, as president, if he learned that bin Laden was in Pakistan, and he had a choice to send in U.S. forces after him. McCain replied, “Larry, I’m not going to go there and here’s why, because Pakistan is a sovereign nation…. But I want to assure you I will get Osama bin Laden as president of the United States and I will bring him to justice no matter what it takes.”

Unless, “what it takes” includes going into Pakistan.

I have to admit, I’ve heard McCain staking out a similar position for months, and I have no idea why he’s sticking to this. Barack Obama has said he’d pursue high-value terrorist targets into areas of Pakistan where the Musharraf government has little or no control, launching limited attacks based on actionable intelligence. McCain believes we shouldn’t pursue these terrorist targets, because he’s concerned about Pakistani “sovereignty.”

But this is crazy. Existing U.S. policy, under the Bush administration, is to go after terrorists in Pakistan. Obama wants to keep this policy in place. In fact, we’ve already executed this policy on more than one occasion, and have killed al Qaeda leaders hiding in Pakistani mountains. McCain thinks this is a mistake? McCain disagrees with existing U.S. policy? He wants to do “what it takes,” but Pakistani “sovereignty” is so important, McCain would scale back counter-terrorism efforts in the region?

If there’s any coherent rationale behind McCain’s approach, it’s hiding well.

As long as we’re on the subject, there were a few other tidbits worth noting from McCain’s CNN interview.

He claimed, for example, that Obama “wants basically government to run the health care program.” That’s an obvious lie. McCain insisted that Obama “wants to raise taxes,” without noting that Obama is targeting those who make more than $250,000 a year, and actually offers more generous tax cuts for the middle class than McCain does.

McCain also boasted, “I would remind you, I said we would have an easy victory [in Iraq]. We did,” proving once again that the twisted “Mission Accomplished” mindset is identical in both Bush and McCain.

This might have been my favorite exchange, though:

KING: You said yesterday that you endorse an Arizona ballot referendum to eliminate affirmative action. Ten years ago, you described a similar effort as “divisive.” What changed?

MCCAIN: You know, I don’t know what we’re talking about. About 10 years ago and I’m going to look it up.

“I don’t know what we’re talking about.” That’s one of my favorite McCain quotes in a while.

Lets see if I follow this.

McCain would go anywhere and do anything to get bin Laden, with the sole exception of Pakistan. So, presumably, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Syria, Somalia, etc etc etc are all fair game. Are none of them sovereign nations? Are the US and Pakistan the only two sovereigns on the globe? India – would McCain unilaterally go into India? How about Belgium?

And what of Iraq – since McCain apparently would ignore Maliki’s request for us to leave if Gen. Petraeus disagreed. Is Petraeus the sovereign of Iraq?

ouch my head hurts.

  • Don’t worry, McCain may have made such a statement on King’s show, but he’ll contradict or reverse his position. Soon. Get ready to expand your list.

  • I hear the Gate of Hell may be near the Iraq-Pakastan Border.

    And yesterday there was a missle stike on the Pak side of the border killing a high up henchman.

    McCain should pu his money where is mouth is and demand to know if the US was involved in the strike. And if so, he should condemn the killing a this Al Qaeda lowlife or STFU.

  • It’s damn obvious this man is not qualified to hold the highest office in the land. Yet, polls show swing voters and undecided making it a dead heat, and in some, (according to Newsweek – http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/07/28/poll-position.aspx ) he is actually leading by a small margin.

    Now what does that say about the average intelligence of the American electorate? How could such a great country, a country that harnessed electricty first, invented the light bulb, the telegraph, the gramaphone, telephone, cars, discovered flight, split the atom, fall so far so fast?

  • Rhetorical question there by the way…
    the answer is: THE RIGHT WING MEDIA!

  • I cannot recall in our recent history a presidential candidate as bad as McCain. He practically makes Obama/DNC campaign commercials each time he opens his mouth. If, after all of this, we elect McCain, we will deserve the result

  • This breaking news just in—John McLie has just vowed to follow Osama bin Laden to the gates of Czechoslovakia….

  • “I would remind you, I said we would have an easy victory [in Iraq]. We did,”

    I’ll bet he remembers the same kind of success in Viet Nam.

  • McCain doesn’t want to chase Bin Laden into Pakistan because he might actually catch him!!! What would the MIC do with out a boogeyman to shake at us to keep us cowed and cattled?

  • thank you, zeitgeist for making the point
    McCain will go nowhere, as every nation is soverign.
    Not just Pakistan.
    Not just the U.S.

  • “But this is crazy. Existing U.S. policy, under the Bush administration, is to go after terrorists in Pakistan. Obama wants to keep this policy in place.”

    Therein lies the rub – if he agrees with to go after Bin Laden in Pakistan, then he’s agreeing with Obama, who he has already criticized, I believe, for saying that he would “bomb” Pakistan (of course Obama never said he would bomb Pakistan).

    In a sad moment last week, I heard them talking about Obama and Pakistan and a commentator on Morning Edition actually stated that Obama said he’d bomb Pakistan – I wrote them a comment, but as far as I can tell there has been no correction.

  • Behold once more the amazing presidential power that is John McCain! Using his powerful tool of language subterfuge, he is luring bin Laden slowly into the trap. A confused bin Laden has been searching for over a week for the mythical border between Pakistan and Iraq. Now McCain throws the terror master off balance even further by declaring that he remains safe so long as he’s in Pakistan. Next step? What? Have you no imagination? With the mighty military industrial powers the McCain machine will move Pakistan to the current location of Iraq, thus pulling the magic carpet right out from under the unsuspecting bin Laden.

    Now, I must go look up ten years ago. I must have said something.

  • This was the best comment I read all day (over at TPM):

    “Today’s News: A tsunami of tstupidity”

    Goshen, kudos for the best tagline ever.

    Bumper stickers anyone?

  • Wilson through Kennedy: Tried to deal with reality
    Nixon: Dealt with reality by lying about it.
    Reagan: Sometimes confused about reality.
    — (“Ketchup is a vegetable, trees cause more pollution than cars, etc., etc.”)
    Clinton: Very carefully parsed reality
    Bush: “We make our own reality”
    McCain: Absolutely detached from reality, and even from the need to pretend to have one.

  • I highly doubt the gate to hell is so close to the Garden of Eden. I’ll bet the gate to hell is somewhere in Texas.

    Maybe in Craford.

    Or maybe France.

    Would McCain follow bin Laden to France? To an art museum?

  • If there’s any coherent rationale behind McCain’s approach, it’s hiding well.

    Oh, come, CB, there’s an obvious rationale – McCain & the Republicans dare not actually catch OBL, at any time, because that would remove their last shred of electability.

  • @citizen_pain:

    The RW media finds fertile ground for sowing stupidity among a lazy, uninterested electorate. Those of us who care about truth can find it.

    I’m philosophically a conservative Libertarian. I was more-or-less hoodwinked by the Bush administration up until early 2004 (although I never endorsed some of their excesses such as the Patriot Act stuff) but I found my way out of it by reading about what was going on. The truth is there for those who want it.

    It’s far more gratifying to whine “I don’t care about politics,” and just despair of our ability to change anything. TBH I too despair of our ability to ever change things for the better. But at least I’m going to inform myself so I know what’s going on.

  • KING: Ten years ago, you described a similar effort as “divisive.” What changed?

    MCCAIN: You know, I don’t know what we’re talking about. About 10 years ago and I’m going to look it up.


    And of course this isn’t the first time he has claimed to “forget” a position he’s taken in the past, and it usually happens right after someone asks him a question which could get him in trouble. So here’s a question for the McCain team: How can you run on a platform of “experience” if your guy can’t remember what the hell he did ten years ago?

  • McCain is following the Bush tactic of dumping a truckload of (whatever it is…corruption or confusing bullshit) of crap out there…so you can lie at will while keeping everyone distrated and confused by the sheer volume and running out the campaign (or administration’s)clock by “gumming it to death”.

    71 flip-flops and counting…what a massive amount of crap to use to confound or confuse the voters while saluting and coming to a parade stand of patriotism as he gums it to death.

    It will never stop because McCain is a phony with no substance just show.

  • Oy, sorry for my about to be long ramblings. And ofttimes off topic, too. Apologies in advance.

    As to McCain’s sanity, Nicole Belle over at C&L posted this (from Young Turks):

    MCCAIN: I believe that, when he said that we had to leave Iraq, and we had to be out by last March, and we had to have a date certain, that was in contravention to — and still is — the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General David Petraeus.

    Of course, Gen. Petraeus is not the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Admiral Mike Mullen is. That is a terrible mistake, if he really meant that. This is supposed to be his field of expertise and he has talked about Gen. Petraeus approximately one billion times.

    http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/07/29/another-mccain-gaffe/

    Let’s first look at what “gaffe” is:

    gaffe – a socially awkward or tactless act, faux pas, slip, solecism, gaucherie, blooper, blunder, boner, boo-boo, botch, bungle, flub, foul-up, fuckup, pratfall, bloomer – an embarrassing mistake

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/gaffe

    We keep talking about mistakes and flip flops. These are NOT gaffes that McCain is making. He is uninformed, confused and ill advised.

    Not knowing the difference between Shia’a and Sunni is not a gaffe. It is a lack of understanding of the most underlying pining of what is wrong with this war.

    His policy flip flops are not gaffes. They are due to ill advice from his campaign people that he has to be everything to all people.

    And on everything else, the man is just damned confused. Czechoslovakia stopped existing 15 (or so) years ago. Pakistan is sovereign but Iraq and Iran are not? Iraq and Pakistan share a border. Russia is evil.

    All of this collectively goes so much deeper. McCain is living in the past. He is out and out lying. He has no clue what he’s speaking of. He is constantly confused.

    This is from a Russian diplomat:

    “We want the American electorate to answer for the choice it will make …

    At the moment, they are turning Russia into a scapegoat for the mistakes of their foreign policy,” said the diplomat, who spoke on condition of anonymity. The United States “is on the verge of an existential crisis,” he added.

    http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/29/top-russian-diplomat-were-not-interested-in-what-mccain-has-to-say/

    ThinkProgress highlighted different words than ones I think are critical for each and every person in this country, and those are:

    The United States “is on the verge of an existential crisis,”

  • One more thing; when McCain “looks it up” will he issue a statement, explaining why the repeal of affirmative action would not be divisive?

    Just wondering.

  • Racer X, that point is excellent: some reporter should ask the follow-up(s):

    “Senator, if not 10 years, just how far back can you remember how you voted and what positions you took?”

    then

    “Should we really count your experience before that date if it no longer informs your judgment?”

    I suspect this would be assured to trigger the famous McCain temper.

  • If the gates of Hell are near the mouth of Hell, McCain only has to follow Bin Laden all the way to Sunnydale, CA where I’m sure Buffy will help him. (Sorry for the old pop culture reference – my household is a little behind the times.)

  • Zeitgeist, do you think most of the vapid reporters today have the ability to ask ANY follow-up questions?

    When I listen to people ranting about media figures not calling the bullshit that politicians and their surrogates say, I say that they don’t have the ability. Yeah, yeah, some do, but most don’t. (The best one was Matthews on Appeasement-gate. That was what television gotcha’s should look like. And if the media did shit like that often, their ratings would be through the roof! That was a media Springer moment)

  • I would remind you, I said we would have an easy victory [in Iraq]. We did.

    Tell that to the more than 4,000 dead American service members … the more than 500,000 dead Iraqis … the 5 million and counting displaced Iraqis …

    Oh, and hasn’t McCain said that we can’t leave until we achieve victory in Iraq? Well, he just said we have achieved it (easily, no less) — so all the troops will be coming home, and soon, correct?

    Or was he wrong and we have not really won and, thus, can’t leave yet?

    Or was he wrong and we have to stay, even if we already won?

    Or was he just talking out of his ass once again, thus proving he is the easily the most clueless candidate since … well, ever?

  • Last time I checked, Afghanistan had been a sovereign nation too.

    It’s funny, the affirmative action quote is basically exactly how he responded to that question about covering birth control and Viagra under health care. He clings to this “Well I don’t remember how I voted” excuse when the interview knows and tells him exactly how he voted. That’s not just insulting to both the interviewer and those watching the interview, it’s not even a particularly good way to circumvent a question. It’s just too obvious, and it makes him look like an idiot.

  • If there’s any coherence to McC’s policies, he’s hiding it well? There is no coherence to his policies, he blithers and blathers because he’s been allowed to do so for decades an inexplicably fawning press that cleans up his messes and — as seems increasingly the only explanation — because he’s gaga. A lot of people, including those dear to me, think he’s just a liar, lying his way moment to moment to please different listeners; but the inconsistencies, contradictions, and inability to stick to one position more than a few hours or even minutes (in numerous cases) suggest that he’s lost it, literally. This is not a nice or good man, his policies when he’s coherent are terrible, but some people like him. Nobody, however, can think it good to elect a person who is mentally not up to the job of remembering what he thinks for more than five minutes at a time.

  • OBL is dead and McCain knows this. Empty rhetoric used to show his manliness. I would rather hearing him say he would chase Bush and Cheney to the gates of hell but then hell has a reserved seat for all three of them….if you believe in such crap.

  • Someone please kick the guy with the hook. McCane needs to be dragged off stage.

    You know, I don’t know what we’re talking about. About 10 years ago and I’m going to look it up.

    Uh yeah. He commented on this a few days before the interview. I clearly recall a debate here over whether this was an actual flip-flop or not.

    I don’t care how old the guy is, I’m putting this down to being a lying crap weasel who’d do anything to gain power. In other words, he’s a Republican so I’m not surprised by this latest laspe of memory.

    Question, does stating an opinion on a bill and then claiming he can’t remember his opinion of the bill count as a flip-flop?

  • Hello commenters. I don’t know how many of you remember any of my posts. I hope my upcoming posts will be worthwhile. It’s been quite some time since I’ve come around. The original problem for me was lack of civility between HRC and BHO supporters. That seems to have pretty much cleared up in short order as some predicted. What has now brought me back is absolute urgency this time. Near the end of June, I went into the hospital for what I assumed was a back spasm problem. Not so much. The hits just kept coming that day and now I think I finally digested most of it. They first gave me a CATSCAN which reported metatastic brain tumors. Novack I hope you handle this with at least a modicum of grace and wisdom. It’s there and more if you are capable. Not everyone is. I hope you are.

    When the physician continued on and told me the chest XRay showed the primary cancer and he had just found several lung tumors I kinda figured there was no denying the facts. I just saw the graphical evidence. In terms of anger, who in hell can you get angry at. I don’t think anyone other than myself was ultimately responsible. In terms of crying and sadness it didn’t seem particularly useful.

    I guess others have tried negotiation and the closest I came to that was can I go home for a day of two to process all this. And finish off the 5 cartons of cigarrettes I had left. Apparently negotiation skills were at a nadir that day. Next order was get into the ambulance and we’re taking you Beth Israel in Boston. So the bottom line inventory for that night was acceptance, no anger, no sadness and no power to make my own decisions. Just about as much as I was ready to handle.

    It’s been just over a month since this and I’ve never had the time nor opportunity to learn quite so much. I know that Kennedy, Prof Randy Pausch, Carl Sagan and Prof Stephan J. Gould have sure gotten me thinking. So’s Novack but I’ve got a bit less confidence in him. Who knows, maybe he’ll suprise and positively inspire someone.

  • You are taking McCain out of context.

    He said he isn’t going to go there publicly and announce his policies.

    How stupid are you liberal bloggers.

    Steve Benen how dense are you.

    You are either dense or lying.

    McCain said he wasn’t going to go there meaning announce his policies on television not that he wouldn’t go there.

    McCain said he would do whatever it takes.

  • First he’s gonna put on the Rambo headband, beat his chest, then hop in the golf cart and send more troops on a fool’s errand.

    I heard Osama bin Laden was last seen at a Mahwah Dunkkin Donuts with Elvis as the night manager.
    Maybe he should try there first.

  • Well since the gates of hell aren’t in Pakistan, McCain can go there. And live in steamy eternity with the proudest of republicans.

  • McCain said he wasn’t going to go there meaning announce his policies on television not that he wouldn’t go there.

    You’re missing the point. Yes, “I’m not going to go there” was referring to the question, not Pakistan. We know that. But in following it up with “Pakistan is a sovereign nation” is the important part. Don’t ignore the fact that this is not the first time he’s spoken against attacking terrorists in al-Qaida, he criticized Obama for saying he would do so. McCain has made it clear he will not launch a unilateral strike on terrorist bases in Pakistan.

  • You are taking McCain out of context.

    It is impossible to take a context-less, geezerly fool with an omniscient case of dementia, compounded with SPLD (Severe Pathological Lying Disorder), out of context.

    He said he isn’t going to go there publicly and announce his policies.

    Senator McTransparency-in-Government strikes again—but “announcing his policies” first requires that he have policies to announce.

    How stupid are you liberal bloggers.

    Apparently, not stupid enough to forget what a question mark is—but then again, one must understand that a sycophantic little prairie dog such as yourself has no need for a question mark, as you clearly lack the “intestinal fortitude” to properly formulate a question. Such, it is said, is a common trait of the lower-caste troll.

    Steve Benen how dense are you.

    See above.

    You are either dense or lying.

    Republicans can’t even manage a good smear any more; this one merely reinforces the theory that Steve Benen is not a Republican—as it is a known, proven fact that Republicans must, by prerequisite, be both dense AND lying.

    McCain said he wasn’t going to go there meaning announce his policies on television not that he wouldn’t go there.

    Jeff is now pretending to be the Mouth of Sauron Dana Perino. But Jeff is too stupid to be Dana Perino. Besides, Jeff is too damned butt-ugly to be Dana Perino. Anyone who can make Victor Hugo’s Quasimodo look good does not have what it takes to be Dana Perino. But going back on topic, McCain noted quite clearly that he wouldn’t go to Pakistan because it’s a sovereign nation—unless McCain is saying that he can’t discuss sovereignty on the airwaves

    McCain said he would do whatever it takes.

    So did his master, Bush43. How well did that one work out—Hmmmmmmmmm???

  • I want to appologize for Jeff.

    He is one of out Outreach bloggers, but not one of our brightest. His goal is to use reason and logic to get one to think twice about J-Mac while being civil at all times.

    How about this argument kids.

    John McCain has many year of Experience. Experience is beneficial, this is a good reason to support John McCain. George W Bush did not have much experience, this was unfortunate. You should consider John McCain for President.

  • Uhm, #40…how about…

    The Bush family was around forever.
    George W. Bush is stupid.
    McCain is too confused about his own policies.

    Obama has a good head on his shoulders.
    He has good judgment.
    He is well respected.

  • Ms. Joanne

    Obama has a good head on his shoulders.
    He has good judgment.
    He is well respected.

    This is all true.

    I like John McCain, or J-Mac, as the kids are calling him these days, because he also possesses these qualities. And he possesses Experience, too, which is beneficial. This is why you should consider J-Mac for president.

  • Sorry, kiddo. McCain has one of those traits. He is respected. That’s it.

    He wants to bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.

    He wants to be in Iraq for 100 years (until he was pushed into accepting a timetable which he won’t call a timetable).

    He has no plan for the economy but the tired reduce taxes (do you even know what a deficit is and that we have one and that it’s $600 billion dollars and that you and your children are going to be paying for it?)

    He wants to make our health care system worse than it is. You can’t give tax credits to people to pay for health care when they can barely eat. (Enjoy this story about the police killing a kid for stealing food: http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/07/taser-atrocity-of-day-by-digby-heres.html )

    There is not one single issue that McCain offers which makes any sense whatsoever.

    I don’t know why you support him but there is no way you will ever, EVER, EVER get anyone here to support McCain. And anyone who says they will is lying to you (or came here with you).

    However, should you like to me say so, I will, if you make us stop writing posts like this.

  • Mrs Joanne

    I only stopped by to clean up after Jeff’s mess. It has been reported at Headquarters that Jeff has been disrespectful in many quarters.

    I aimed to remedy this, today. Jeff by the way has been fined. So this is a show of good faith.

    GBUGBA

  • Psssssttt. MsJoanne? Methinks someone gotchya.

    Or … at least I hope it’s a parody. I mean, dear lord … dude can’t be for real … can he?

    :-/

  • repeating one bad year 39 times is also experience. It’s McCain’s reputation that precedes his experience. We have the pictures of him hugging Bush and all the videos of his blatant stupidity. We know he will say or do anything if it means he could be president. No substance and all show…he just wants the title. btw…I know of no one who respects him really.

  • Mard D (is that you DaddyO?), I looked at that site again and I don’t think it’s at all a IFP moment. I fear this is the real deal. That said, my irony thing has been misfiring lately.

    I’ll give him this…he’s polite. Misguided but polite.

  • MdJoanne–
    Yep, it’s me DaddyO, but I haven’t updated my site much — many, many reasons why.

    Anyway, I’m not 100% sure the guy is a spoof, either. And yes, he is quite polite.

    The thing is, it’s way, way too close to other idiotic online ideas from the right that were “real” but … still … something about it just makes me think it’s too hard to parody and, thus, is parody.

    I just don’t know …

    • Comments are closed.