McClellan responds, falsely, to Feingold

This morning, Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.) unveiled his resolution calling for a congressional censure of Bush over his warrantless-search program. Shortly thereafter, Scott McClellan told reporters what he thought of the idea.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan said Feingold’s move “has more to do with 2008 politics than anything else.” […]

“I think it does raise the question, how do you fight and win the war on terrorism?” McClellan said. “And if Democrats want to argue that we shouldn’t be listening to al Qaeda communications, it’s their right and we welcome the debate. We are a nation at war.”

Looking over the rest of this Reuters article, there’s no fact-checking for McClellan’s claim and there’s no quote from the other side to respond to the argument. It’s not even a “he said, she said” — it’s just “he said.”

And of course, what he said was wrong. It’s a tired and predictable White House response, but the notion that Democrats don’t want to intercept al Qaeda communications is absurd. McClellan knows this. When he levies such a charge publicly, he’s either a) intentionally trying to mislead people; or b) is intentionally uninformed. It’s just shameless.

Glenn Greenwald argues that it’s up to Reuters to say so.

It is completely unacceptable, and a total abdication of their responsibility, for the media to pass along the White House’s factually false claim that Democrats oppose eavesdropping on Al Qaeda. The media does not need to, and should not, take sides in the NSA debate, but it ought to inform American citizens about what the arguments actually are and what the debate is about. If it doesn’t do that, what does it do?

That’s a very good question. McClellan offers reporters these demonstrably false claims because he knows, more often than not, he’ll get away with it.

Most of the press hasn’t been doing their job during the Bush administration – I doubt they are going to start now. Professionalism is for losers.

  • We are NOT “a nation at war”.

    After three years and nearly 3,000 American deaths, we are still to trying to find a way to justify our claim on the 14 military bases and all the oil in the nation our country “conquered” after 139 American deaths (“Mission Accomplished”). A country which, under our “control”, will probably soon drift into civil war.

    I haven’t been asked to save an ounce of cooking fat or forego a single cube of butter since this “war” began. 72% of the troops actually fighting this “war” want it to end within a year; 26% want it to end NOW. Our CommandChimp in Chief says he could care less about the whereabouts of Osama. In fact, his closest amigos are from land controlled by the Royal House of Saud which launched the original attack against us. What kind of a “war” is it?

  • The TV media is owned by three corporate interests. Time Warner, GE and Fox. What do people expect? This administration acts on corporate interests every time. Napoleon said the old regeme could have avoided the French revolution of 1789 if they had understood and controlled the newspapers. Today, he would add electronic media.
    Most people don’t read newspapers, they get the news from TV.
    Lou Dobbs, one of the founders of CNN stands alone with his true coverage of the destruction of our middle class. CNN has limited his show to one showing with no repeats until 1-4am. Eventually, they will get rid of him as well.
    The apathy of the American people id the best helper of the thinly veiled dictatorship we now live in. Welcome to Germany circa 1935.

  • How exactly is the mainstream media liberal? It seems they are either letting this administration slide, or are a convenient Emmanuel Goldstein for the administration and their allies to blame their problems on, because the MSM isn’t getting “their message” or “the good news” out to the public.

    Speaking of Nineteen Eightyfour, anyone catch Sandra Day O’Connor’s remarks about our proud nation slipping into dictatorship? Olbermann had something on it, but that’s about it. Your media at work, America.

    “Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn’t mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”

    “When the politicians complain that TV turns the proceedings into a circus, it should be made clear that the circus was already there, and that TV has merely demonstrated that not all the performers are well trained. ”

    -Edward R. Murrow, the last true American reporter

  • Ed,
    Well said. Remember what this administration told us after 9/11?:
    “Go out, shop, and buy big Hummers, America, because if you change your lifestyle, the terrorists win.”
    “The best way to win this war is with massive tax cuts.”
    “Why draft when we can call back vets who hadn’t worn BDUs in 10 years?”
    “The best way to beat the terrorists is to keep funding super-expensive weapon systems that are still decades away, or designed to defeat a 1980s-style Soviet invasion of Western Europe.”

    C’mon

  • Censure Bush!!

    By making such false and slanderous statements McClellan is knowingly undermining our democracy

    He should be ashamed

  • Lets see if I have this straight;

    Feingold puts forth a resolution based on NSA’s wiretaps of calls from known “persons of interest” overseas to phones in the USA and McClellan is lying?

    Please bring this up again in October

  • Bogie,
    Where do we find any proof that this program is after “persons of interest.”
    I find the “trust me” meme about played out.

  • All you have to do is parade just ONE person before the media who has been abused by this program. JUST ONE

    But just like the Florida 2000 accusations, allegedly preventing blacks from voting, NO ONE will parade before the media to support a claim of violation of rights.

  • Finegold for President…. and Murtha for Vice President..

    I tired of safe slip and slide democrats that won’t take a stand.

    Oh and Scotty for late night infomercials.

  • Well, I can’t respect either Feingold or McCain – Their incumbent-protection act was a travesty.

    Keep in mind too that all it’s going to take is one of the “brave freedom fighters” driving a propane tanker into a basketball game (maybe Spike could be there!), or something equally heinous, and these same people who are disturbed that our overpaid intelligence forces are actually doing their jobs, are going to be demanding heads on pikes.

    Let’s see…

    Ab-duhl straps on a semtex vest. He walks into a crowded marketplace, howls about how _his_ god is great, and yanks the rip cord. Thing is, he sorta snoozed during Bomber 101, and screwed the pooch big time. The crowd is dispersed, not soon enough to save anything to have a trial, but the police do get his cell phone. And he’s been making calls. Those phones are traced. Then it looks like someone is calling someone in the US…

    Now, I may be committing a cardinal sin here, but I’m going to ASSUME that Ab-duhl may have been talking to other graduates of his Bomber 101 class? Maybe even the professor? Hmmm… Would it maybe be a good idea to know what these people are doing, like maybe before they kill a whole buncha folks?

    I don’t see how anyone can support these killers.

  • For probably the last twenty years, the media has just repeated what ever the Republicans say without fact checking or pointing out that the Republican statements are wrong. The Right Wing won the “war” with their continual cry of “liberal bias in the media.” The media has decided that to point out Republican misinformation would be evidence of a “liberal bias”.

  • Bogieville,
    How did Ab-duhl get into the country? Where did he get the Sem-tex? How does his cell phone survive? Was it blown clear from his body, and in a condition to be of any value to the authorities?

    Still, it make a good episode of “24”.

  • Oh… Our bud Ab-duhl (if you read Dilbert, you likely know where I get the spelling…) _isn’t_ in the US… He’s over in Iraq, trying to kill as many Iraqi citizens so that he can spread his message of… what… I’m not sure… As for semtex, well, it could just as easily be any of several other high explosive compounds. Give me the source materials and a decent lab, and some highly motivated and very dumb people, and I can cook up something similar – it’s all in the textbooks and patents. Pandora’s SUV, you know?

    And as for his cell phone surviving? Ab-duhl was hoping a little too much that Allah would ensure his martyrdom, and didn’t pay attention in little bomber’s class (I’ll try to use short words here, and avoid the vernacular), and Ab-duhl no go boom. Oops. Just ruined his whole day. No virgins – be kinda hard after the ladies in the marketplace who just realized that he was trying to blow ’em into little pieces pull off a few interesting pieces of their own…

    Our folks have recovered cell phones from terrorists. They’ve also recovered phones which were intended to be used as trigger devices (see “pay attention in bomber 101, or it won’t go off…”) And they’ve traced the calls. I do not have _any_ problem with that.

    Now, if there was some sort of massive conspiracy going on, with thousands upon thousands of little NSA dweebs double-checking the thousands upon thousands of NSA supercomputers that are monitoring “our” phone communications, don’t you think a few of ’em would have said something? “Oh yeah, I was listening to some kids talking about stealing beer from Daddy’s fridge.” Clue time: That isn’t what the NSA is paying attention to, so you don’t have to worry.

    People cannot keep secrets, and more people increases the likelihood of spillage exponentially.

    All this “scandal” has done is taught Ab-duhl’s buddies that they need to be more cautious. Congratulations to the “whistleblowers.” They’ve killed people.

  • Bogie:

    Do you comprehend anything?

    The NSA has the right — under FISA — to wiretap anyone they feel like. They just, within three days time, have to submit a wiretap request to the courts. That court (and I dont have the exact number) has turned down said requests less than a dozen time over whatever number of years. That’s almost a rubber stamp – not quite – but almost. All it says is that you’ve got to get a warrant for a wiretap WITHIN THREE DAYS OF STARTING THE WIRETAP.

    Either way, the law remains, you can wiretap whomever you want even ahead of having a warrant to do so — and the Administration basically said, “Screw that, we don’t need this.”

    The Administration did not follow the law. That’s what his resolution is based on — breaking that law. It has nothing to do with what you’re saying — there hasn’t been one person who has suggested we shouldn’t use such operations at all. But we set up a law in place to avoid abuse of power. So are you really that blindingly stupid, or are you just trying to rile people up?

  • All this “scandal” has done is taught Ab-duhl’s buddies that they need to be more cautious. Congratulations to the “whistleblowers.” They’ve killed people.

    How. Explain how, schmuck. If we can monitor these calls provided we get a warrant for a wiretap — even before we get the wiretap — how does this provide them any information? Wouldn’t they have already been cautious? Wouldn’t they have already tried to do what your’e suggesting they’re doing? So cut out the demagoguery and the stupidity and the scare tactics.

  • Dave G.

    Comprehend this
    Reference: Article II Section 2 The Constition of the United States

    Reference:
    http://news.findlaw.com/wp/docs/terrorism/sjres23.es.html

    Per the Constitution the President has authority to conduct war. The President asking for permission is the same as you asking me for permission to post your remarks. His authority is authorized by the Constitution, and the oath he took to protect it.

    Question

    The Constitution establishes three equal branches of government. One branch was created more equal than the others. Which one and why.

  • Per the Constitution the President has authority to conduct war. The President asking for permission is the same as you asking me for permission to post your remarks.

    Permission for what? That’s not what I said. The resolution you cite does not say anything about superceding any other laws that already exist. There’s a court of law — put into place for situations like this — and the president has to abide by that. This isn’t a blank check.

    And as for scare tactics, the use of lines like “you whistleblowers have killed people” is a scare tactic — it’s essentially designed to shut a person up for speaking out. “Don’t speak because the enemy is coming.”

  • So the War On Terror is a criminal venture?

    The resolution gives the President the right to conduct war. Change the resolution, I suggest Congress debate this during the month of October this year.

    If you expose intelligence to the enemy there are consequences, like people getting killed, a simple fact and I know you are proud.

  • The resolution is not a blank check. Period. And as for exposing intelligence, near as I can tell, what anyone knows about is that we may be listening to phone calls, which wouldn’t be a surprise to anyone. You’re still being disengenous.

  • McClellan lies because he converts the desire for appropriate oversight of the NSA surveillance program into the position that we should not attempt to intercept any communications of al Qaeda (and the AG was SO hoping that UBL and Co would forget that we have the ability to listen in). That is not true. McClellan’s briefings are a study in mendacity (not so artfully done). And, of course, by Scotty’s implication, Russ Feingold is willing to throw U.S. national security out the window to further his presidential ambitions, because you’re either with the President or wantonly threatening the welfare of the nation for personal political gain. Interesting that that radical left-winger, Sandra Day O’Connor, is sounding the alarm about our proximity to the slippery slope of dictatorship…

  • The power to conduct war is as close to a blank check as any will ever see. One of the reasons the Constitution makes the Executive Branch more equal than the others.

  • Re post 19: If the terrorists cease to use a communications method because they realize that it has been compromised, they have a better chance of success, which means that they’ll be able to kill more people easier. I’ll try to use shorter words in the future.

  • If the terrorists cease to use a communications method because they realize that it has been compromised, they have a better chance of success, which means that they’ll be able to kill more people easier.

    You STILL haven’t explained how this has been compromised. The existence of the FISA court is public knowledge and already has been. That doesn’t give them knowledge of time and place. Just as if we say publicly, “We think they’re going to hit us again,” that doesn’t automatically thwart them because we know they’re coming. Devil is in the details.

  • Dave G.

    Great job there ahhh the intellect it must have taken, I am in awe. You represent those here well. Another product of a public education?

  • What Republicans Believe:

    The terrorists don’t realize that their phones are being tapped.

    And we all know that the various law enforcement agencies would never wiretap on anyone they know is not connected to terrorism.

    Like, for example, a political opponent.

    Because, we all trust our government as the proper steward of our freedoms.

    Remember – we do not have inalienable rights – we have only the rights that the government feels is OK for us to have.

    In time of WAR, we don’t need those rights.

    Security is more important than freedom.

    Questioning authority enboldens (what a word!) the terrorists.

    The lives of ordinary folk in the Middle East are not worth losing any sleep over.

    We need the government to protect us.

    The above is a synopsis of the beliefs of today’s republican party.

    Republican that supports what is happening in this country should be ashamed of themselves.

  • You STILL haven’t explained how this has been compromised. The existence of the FISA court is public knowledge and already has been.

    WHICH MIGHT BE THE REASON NOT TO USE IT

    ya think????

  • Has not been brought out before but since you insist…..

    BTW I have this information because I seek information form a lot of sources instead of just reading the info meant for you kool aid drinkers.

    President Bush informed the leaders of both parties of this program. The Senate leaders of both parties and the leaders (again both parties) of the Intelligence Commitees received breifings on a regular basis.

    Again PLEASE BRING THIS BEFORE THE PUBLIC IN OCTOBER

    I will supply the Kool Aid in November

  • And for the record, for you morons out there who think conducting “war” in the attempt to create a democracy in one country means you should destroy the democracy already established, makes absolutely no sense and even the dumbass republican senators wouldnt vote for such a thing if you were actually to put it down in writing for what it is. For people to say that the congress authorized powers that in affect abolish already existing laws is just ludicrous, and they have already stated quite clearly that this was not their intent. Why do people persist with arguments that are based on bs? That is not reasoning..it is just fallacy. To take the argument of an all powerful executive branch to its logical extreme is to say that in times of war we live under a dictatorship, which is nonsense. To further apply the interpretation is to render all laws null and void.

  • re post 28… My, that was eloquent. Is that the best that MY tax dollars can buy you for an education?

    and 29… Dontcha think that after it was all over every bleepin’ network that even the dimmest bulb among them might have decided that cell phones weren’t quite as optimal a means of communication as they’d previously thought? Oops… a few big words there… Ab-duhl now know cell phone bad.

    and 31… Okay, if the NSA starts tapping phones of “Political Party D,” do you actually think that could go on for longer than 30 seconds before someone would be on the phone to CNN? If you really DO think that, you really should share some of what you’ve been smoking.

    and 35… Destroying an established democracy? Dude, you really should stop sprinkling that stuff on the herb before you roll it up… If Hussein-era Iraq was an “established democracy” then I’ll actually go to an opera with my esteemed father, and try my best to pretend to enjoy it – Whew – looks like I’m saved… Unless your definition of “democracy” is something that oppresses darn near everyone but the males of one specific group.

    Don’t completely turn your back on society for a hollow theory. Genocide, murder and rape are bad things. Just because someone is the enemy of your enemy political party is no excuse to embrace the actions of something that’s just flat-out evil. Mass graves filled with gassed people _could_ be considered something of a wakeup call?

  • It is getting harder and harder for the Bush faithful to hold out against the relentless blundering of their leader, which seems only to be accellerating.

    Bush is getting increasingly desperate and forced by events to act outside his scripted comfort zone(bubble) , and as his (handlers) advisors become tired, entangled in legal problems, and otherwise distracted…. There is the horrible possibility that Bush will listen to his gut instincts, and try to do something risky but decisive on the world stage to try to recoup his political fortunes before his presidency runs out.

    And given that Bush has classic mental health problems that result from “white knuckle” alcohol and drug addiction and paired with rebirth in evangelical right wing Christian mythology of the rapture and given his isolation from rational and honest feedback… it all gets rather scarey.
    Picture Bush as commander and chief with “unitary” interpretations of presidential power trying to create even more international terror to justify his ambitions, but in his own mind….. All in the name of the Lord. .

    I wish our trolls would wake up and realize that we’re all in this together, and unless dangerous George can be brought to his senses, we’re all in a world of shit.

    The real terror level should be based on the mental health of the president and I’m afraid it’s rising.

  • Ok, for the idiot with no reading comprehension skills. The democracy being destroyed is the one in the US. Try and think past your stupid ideology for five seconds. If Im saying you are trying to create a democracy, then obviously one didnt exist – that is Iraq. One does exist here at home, and it is being destroyed. Go suck on your pacifier you idiotic troll.

  • After reading a few of yet another wingnut’s dishonest “comments”, I am reminded that it is pointless to talk to or even hope for anything remotely close to sanity from the GOP base. Time to stop wasting breath on them.

    The only hope at this time is:

    1. Voter registration and trying to educate whatever swing voters you may know.
    2. Letters to the media/editor/advertisers that make it clear that the country has swung too hard right. If the drumbeat for change is constant, it will help.
    3. Write Senators/congress. If they know they are being watched, it will make an impact.

    Eventually the GOP hubris, corruption, failures and endless lies will seal their fate. The Left must be ready with the alternative for voters to turn to.

  • If you want to see how idiotic the base is, go the Wall St Journal today and click on the “grade President Bush’s handling of Iraq” poll. Its about 50% F, 10% D, 5% C, and then of course, the base – 15% B and 20% A. Twenty percent give an A. These are the scariest delusional fucks out there – the hard core cases that will give a grade of A even when civil war is fully in motion, we’ve retreated, and accomplished nothing but a massive regional destabilization. There is no reasoning with people who refused to see reality.

  • The Great MarketPlace Of Ideas that the INTERNET was to become has been somewhat compromised by participants, who invite their demonstrably correct opponents, in the animated discussions that frequently occur, to perform a physically impossible auto-erotic activity.

    As our irreplacable Secretary Of Defense once sagely remarked, you must go to war, if war is demanded, by the Intelligence and Armed Forces available. Those entities that were perforce employed by President Bush subsequent to the Twin Towers Enormity were the Legacy of former President Clinton.The capability of The National Security Agency to read electronic communications already existed when our GOD-Granted President Bush took the OATH To Preserve and Protect. It was built to be used. If it was there, and it was, it was used by former President Clinton, possibly to improve his campaign fund-raising. What else would that ninny use it for? But nobody on the limp-hanging LEFT objected at the time. Would anyone know the reason for that quiet?

  • Why do our Trolls spend such considerable time here?.
    1)They are gradually acquiring a taste for libral thought,
    2) They’ve grown fond of our wonderful company.
    3)They hate us for our freedom (of thought)
    4) It’s somehow kinky for them… as in Waumpuscats phrase -“physically impossible auto-erotic activity”-
    5) Karl Rove is paying them by the word.

    The only other possible explaination is that they are simply mischievious wanting only distract and annoy without real intent to have a conversation.

  • Where goeth bogie, so goeth bogieville. A split personality troll? If we looked at the IP addresses would they match?

    kali — I think they are agent-provocateurs. Unable to assimilate into the playground of life their only recourse is to destroy what they can’t have.

  • Thanks for the support all. These two (or one, rather) don’t seem to comprehend basic reality.

  • Actually, watching y’all is sorta like watching a slow motion train wreck… You know you really should move on, but you wanna watch just a little longer…

    Bush isn’t destroying a democracy. The welfare state started that a LONG time ago. Bush is simply trying to apply common sense to a problem, but that seems so passe… I was looking through the June 12, 1944 issue of Life magazine the other day… Plenty of gleeful pictures of bombs falling on Germany, and I didn’t see a single opinion poll asking if FDR was doing the right thing by trying to bomb Hitler into the stone age.

    Academics have been taught absolutes – it is, after all, much easier to teach black and white than shades of grey… So you knee-jerk, and parrot “war is bad.” And you completely fail to get beyond that, to the concept that “war is bad, but it is sometimes very necessary.” You have become isolationists, willing to let the rest of our increasingly small world combust. Today a conflict in Zimbabwe is no longer many months’ travel away. It’s 24 hours. If we ignore something too long (i.e., the nineties under Clinton), it _will_ come to us. Or have you forgotten stolen improvised cruise missiles slamming into New York and DC?

    You become apologists for mass murder, using the excuse that the enemy of your political enemy is your friend. This “war” is also being fought in the arena of public opinion. Every time you widen the rift, you increase support for the group that feels that women are property, rape is a valid right, and that genocide is the best way to resolve a dispute. Congratulatons. Oh, and by the way, the Islamic nutjobs don’t like agnostic academics either… So, if they manage to spread their belief system to the US, you better get that old time desert religion, and fast…

    You have preconceived notions, and when someone suggests differently, you cover your ears, close your eyes, and start chanting your “he’s a racist, he’s a racist” mantra. It doesn’t matter in reality if that is true, because it comforts you. I’ve seen snake-handlin’ far-edge Pentacostals with more tolerance for diversity of thought… And likely more tolerance for diversity of people…

  • Anyway, back to Scotty the Liar,

    Yes, CB. Scotty is confusing the issue. Governmental acts and powers should be constitutional. Amendment 4 follows Article II and was necessary to the adoption of the Constitution by the several states who had just fought a war against an executive power that thought it could conduct warrantless searches and seizures DURING WAR. So obviously, FISA is constitutional, the NSA spying program is not legal or constitutional and if Bush had just gone to the Congress in 2002 and told them that he needed some modification for FISA to bring his program under legal authority, he would have gotten it.

    Remember, in 1998, physical searches (of laptop computers) was not covered by FISA, so the Clinton adminstration searched Aldrich Ames’ computer. The Republican Congress took not a moment to amend FISA so that physical searches became part of the law.

    So what FUCKING DOUBLE STANDARD are the Republicans using here?

  • What must it feel like with current dismal realities
    to have blind belief that Bush is on the right path no matter how much he screws up?

    I checked out USA Today when they had comments about Bush’s approval decline. Most folks were highly critical but his few supporters were upset and vocal.

    He’s our President… God Bless Him
    Blame the media, blame the liberals,
    Treason, not supporting our troops
    Stands by his word
    He’s protecting us better than they would.
    Faith based leadership

    It all boils down to a belief structure that requires suspension of reality.
    I am still waiting to hear an argument of support for Bush that also does not deal with his parade of disasters

  • Bogieville,
    Where on any of these posts has someone stated they support either terrorists or insurgents? Or support isolationism? What are we ignoring?

    How would you have handled the Nineties better?

    As for that cover of Life, 500 pound bombs never look “gleeful”.

    “You have preconceived notions, and when someone suggests differently, you cover your ears, close your eyes, and start chanting your “he’s a racist, he’s a racist” mantra. It doesn’t matter in reality if that is true, because it comforts you.”
    Replace “racist” with “liberal traitor”, and you pretty much nailed the thinking of this administration and their supporters.

  • Where is the Democrats official response ?. We need to establish a official office of response, by not responding we appear weak.

  • How could Islamic fundamentalism spread to the US?

    They either convert ’em, or they kill ’em. So that all that’s left are the faithful.

    500 pound bombs, when dropped on the right targets, are Good Things.

    As for the nineties? Howzabout my whole “third world diplomacy plan” in a nutshell.

    Call the Dictator for Life of the country. Invite him for an all expenses paid junket to the US, or another country that everyone can agree upon.

    In a private meeting, explain to him that he can play nice-nice, and not kill folks he doesn’t like, etc., etc., and then we’ll let him live. After he doesn’t play nice, waste him. Show the video of the first meeting to his successor, and suggest that they learn from it. Crude, but likely highly effective.

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