Mitt catches praise and flak from the Religious Right

November 18, 2006

Guest Post by Morbo

While Democrats find themselves wondering if the country is ready for the first female or black president, Republicans face a different dilemma: Is America ready for its first Mormon president?

Mitt Romney, the governor of Massachusetts, has definitely thrown his hat in the ring. As a one-term governor of a state that’s bluer than blue, he brings a certain credibility to the race since he at least has the appearance of the kind of politician who can engage in bipartisanship. With the implosions of George Allen and Rick Santorum, Romney is being looked at as a serious contender for the social conservative vote as well.

That’s fine with some conservative Christians. Jerry Falwell has said that as long as Romney continues to speak out against same-sex marriage and legal abortion, he’ll do well with “values voters.”

Others are not so sure. Writing in The New Republic recently, Molly Worthen notes that there remains in the fundamentalist world a hard-core remnant whose members simply can’t abide Mormons. To this crowd, Mormonism (formerly the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) is nothing but a made-up religion and a cult. (The story is available to subscribers only.)

Worthen profiles a bizarre couple — the wife is a Mormon whose husband runs an evangelical anti-Mormon ministry! The dynamic between these two makes my head hurt, but the larger issue of the story is quite compelling: How far does religious tolerance extend in the world of the “values voters”?

It’s one thing for Falwell or James Dobson to give a stamp of approval to Romney. Will the average fundamentalist in the pew follow suit and actually touch a screen for him? Even Dobson is not so sure, as he admitted recently.

I find the discussion amusing.

Fundamentalists score Mormons for following a made-up religion. They note with scorn that church founder Joseph Smith claimed an angel handed him golden tablets in New York state in 1830. Smith translated these tablets, which became the Book of Mormon.

Sure, it’s an implausible story. But is it any harder to swallow than the claim that God ordered Moses to a mountain top and handed him two tablets containing the Ten Commandments?

Moses’ story is more familiar to us in a culture sense. We’ve all heard it a thousand times. Thus, it’s more socially acceptable.

Fundamentalists also attack Mormons by pointing out that Book of Mormon makes certain assertions about American history that are not supported by archaeological evidence. Of course, one could say the same thing about the claims of the Old Testament as they relate to the history of the Middle East. And we all know that other assertions fundamentalists make — a 10,000-year-old Earth and “flood geology” — are absurd on their face.

Many people don’t take holy books literally, of course. And therein lies the problem with religious fundamentalists of any stripe: a dogged insistence on literalism leads them to embrace ridiculous positions. They then compound the problem by basing a political movement on these faulty premises. They would employ the raw power of government to force all of us to live by weird interpretations of ancient books that often speak metaphorically with great power but that were never intended to be read as a manual for governance of modern societies.

The problem with Romney is not that he’ll establish a Mormon theocracy. (What would that look like anyway? Would we all be required to have six kids and drive mini-vans?) The problem is he’s yet another far-right candidate who does not respect the reproductive rights of women and equal rights for gay people. I don’t care where Romney goes to church. I do care that he’s already quite far to the right and will probably move farther to get through the GOP primaries.

In short, yes, America is probably ready for a Mormon president — I just hope this guy’s not the one.

Thanks Morbo.

Message to all Americans who play your-religion-is-goofier-than-mine. You all win!

We all have to accept our collective schizophrenia (to an atheist all candidates are lesser evils) and vote for people who believe in some version of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but like you said, we can at least hope for candidates who are least likely to act on the mysogynistic premises of dick-centric belief systems.

  • (formerly the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints)

    As a ‘recovering’ mormon, I have just a small nit to pick–the word you want is “formally”. They are still officially The Church of…. They prefer LDS to mormon, though.

    And Dale, your Flying Spaghetti Monster is a fraud. Everyone knows that the invisible giant flying Purple Unicorn of Saturn is the lord and ruler of the universe.

  • Oh, and if you want to know what a mormon theocracy looks like, try living in Utah for several years. Be prepared to set your clocks back about 50 years, though.

  • 50 starting at what point? The Republican party is stuck in the battles of the ’60s, so 67 minus 50 seems about right. Still part of the Victorian world.

  • It’s right up there in the Constitution – there is NO religious test for public office. It says something loud and clear that these people are willing to put their religious bigotry ahead of the Constitution and fundamental precepts about being American – yet it is treated casually as something rather unremarkable and just one of those things and no one bothers to extend the inference to other Constutional principles and their attitudes toward other Americans.

    It’s an indictment of the corruption and fundamental anti-Americanism of the Republican party that these people serve as it’s primary and most loyal base.

  • There’s no religious test allowed for public office but there’s plenty of religious tests to pass in order to campaign. The phrase “values voters” is code for religious people attempting to influence the political process. The right wing has become more strident in recent years about shoehorning their dogma into the secular political process and they’ve been successful. The entire Terry Schiavo debacle was a sop to the religious right, not to mention those gassy “Justice Sunday” meetings led by the pious fraud, Bill Frist, himself.

    There’s never been a shortage of religious speech coming out of the mouths of elected officials. JFK was a devout Catholic, the first Catholic President. Jimmy Carter was the first born-again Christian President although I don’t recall his religion being a reason to vote for him. Elected officials pander furiously to religious types, it’s an old story. As long as it remains speech, there’s no danger of usurping the Constitution. When religion becomes the basis for policy or legislation, that’s when the line will have to be drawn.

  • Actually we should all become Newtonians. That way, we could worship a guy for whom there is ample,independently-verifiable evidence that he was actually born on December 24 and not some other date that was changed to hijack an ancient Roman solstice festival, and who anyone who studies his life would be able to conclude that he did indeed fundamentally change the way everyone of all other religions looks at the world and how it operates in a way that can never be challenged on its fundamentals.

    Merry Newtonmas to Sir Isaac Newton, born December 24, 1643.

    back to being serious:

    Michael W. is entirely right about what a Mormon theocracy would look like, to go look at Utah. People who think a Mormon president wouldn’t be a Bad Thing don’t really know what they’re talking about. Remember all the Protestant fears that JFK would be taking his orders from the Pope? Well, with a Mormon, that’s not a fear – it’s a fact. Any Mormon who refused to follow in detail any order put out by their current “prophet” – the President of the Church – gets excommunicated. So it really is true: vote for a Mormon and get a Theocracy – and a very far right theocracy, since there are no “real” Mormons who aren’t far righties.

    As far as understanding those people is concerned, you do what my father told me long ago: remove the second “m”.

  • Before BushCo, I was tolerent, even respectful, of others’ religious beliefs. No more. We have reached a point where what someone believes is more important, even divorced from, what they do. When a person claims to believe one thing and their actions demonstrate another, I find their beliefs irrelevant. If they do act accordiing to their beliefs, then I can judge them on their actions. Either way, beliefs don’t matter. Actions matter.

  • Perhaps Michael W could comment on this, but the thing I find most appalling about Mormonism (as I recall) is that they believe that they can, by their actions, become God (or like God). Please correct me if I’m wrong, Michael.

    They also do not allow non-Mormons in their worship spaces. Someone I used to work with could not attend her brother’s wedding because it was in a Mormon church and she was not a Mormon. Ridiculous.

  • Hi, Hannah (post #10). I’ve been out of the church for over 20 years, but I’ll try to address your questions–even though this is not a religion board.

    Mormons believe in the concept of eternal progression. One of their favorite scriptures is “As man is, god once was; as god is, man may one day become.” In one sense, it’s remeniscient of reincarnation since the ultimate goal there is to rejoin the Brahmin. In another sense, it’s antithetical to that in that they (mormons) believe you only have one life to “get it right”. There’s quite a bit more to it than that, but I don’t want to take a lot of space for this. In a sense they’re quite unitarian in that everyone eventually gets ‘saved’–it just takes a LOT longer for some people.

    As for your friend attending the wedding, that would only happen if the ceremony took place in a temple. Anyone can attend worship services at a regular chapel, but the rites and ceremonies that take place in a temple are reserved for the “best of the best” so to speak–members in good standing who pay their tithing, etc.

  • I have often wondered how otherwise very intelligent and highly educated people can believe in Mormonism. And I have to admit to some bias against them in making this judgement since the belief is so obviously not derived from revelation but were simply the schemes of a huckster who borrowed heavily from some of the wierd thinking floating around America at that time. But I also know some very smart people who believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible including the creation myths.

    You probably will find very few politicians out there who can speak more thoughtfully, fluidly and persuasively than Mitt Romney. I cannot think of a better match between two potential candidates to stimulate some really good debate than a match between Mitt and Obama. Sure, Mormonism is as goofy as they come, but I’ll try to give Mitt a pass on it.

  • While I miss my conversations on the religion boards that used to exist (CNN, ATL, CBC, The Gaps, etc.), please let’s not turn this into one.

    Most (if not all) religions are crap. They give their adherents something positive, though, and that’s nothing to be sneezed at. Even if they are doing it for the wrong reasons (hope for eternal life or whatever), they are doing something positive and trying to make the world a better place (in their own misguided way).

    To paraphrase Thomas Jefferson, ‘I have no problem with your religion unless it picks my pocket or you become a public nuisance.”

  • (formerly the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints)

    > As a ‘recovering’ mormon, I have just a small nit to pick–the word you want is “formally”. They are still officially The Church of…. They prefer LDS to mormon, though.

    Indeed, “formally” is the word I wanted. A lame typo on my part. Thanks for catching it.

    I’ll say one things about the Mormons: They have cool churches. Here in D.C., as you drive on the Beltway from Maryland into Virginia, you are greeted with stunning view of the Mormon Temple in Kensington, Md. There is an overpass bridge in the sightline, and years ago some wiseacre painted “Surrender Dorothy” on it, which made for a nice juxtaposition. The killjoy authorities scrubbed it off.

  • Go to Utah, and you’ll see lots of small stable communities in a landscape that is mostly naturally hostile but which is carefully managed by people who have invested heavily and long-term in order to make homes there. Go to Wyoming and you’ll see lots of unhappy results of boom and bust cycles built by people thinking in terms of short-term extraction and gain followed by departure, rather than long-term building of communities. Mormons are also very big on happy family life and healthy sensible living. Religion aside, if you had to choose between the two as a place to grow up as a kid, Utah would seem to be the better choice.

    That’s the upside, and the Mormons get much credit for it.

    However, the downside is everything Tom Cleaver said. The theology is bizarre, the religion requires complete subservience to the prophet and the bishops (who are stiffling and ultraconservative), and the church has very little tolerance for “Gentiles” (the rest of us) and for separation of church and state.

    The mormon church progresses and changes by successive new revelations given by god to the current prophet. (The revelations can be suspiciously convenient, like the revelation to John Smith permitting polygamy, and the subsequent revelation to Brigham Young that explained how god had been misunderstood, just prior to invasion of Utah by federal troops, in order to enforce a Supreme Court order against polygamy.) Anyway, I’m not voting for any mormons for anything, no matter how nice they are as individuals, until I hear about a whole bunch of revelations favoring separation of church and state and progressive, tolerant policies. That’s when I’ll know that they can safely be admitted to leadership positions in our diverse and secular society.

  • Maybe we should be encouraging more intercene warfare within the religious right. Let’s get ’em going after Catholics (again) and other denominations (weird or otherwise) that fail to meet the bizarre litmus tests that qualify one as a bonafide member of the evangelical crowd.

  • No way Romney could cut it in the south. The evan-fundies are still being taught that Mormonism is a false religion. To them it is a cult right up there with Hinduism, Islam, Satanism, etc. Hell, just 20 short years ago they were still debating whether or not Catholics were Christians. Funny that hate is the thing that brought Mormons and fundies together. The very value Christ tried to abolish. I feel sorry for them.

  • I think Mitt’s style is good, but not that good. He strikes me as smarmy, needly, and talkative. I don’t think he frames issues well. Smooth talking is not enough…..

  • And Dale, your Flying Spaghetti Monster is a fraud. Everyone knows that the invisible giant flying Purple Unicorn of Saturn is the lord and ruler of the universe.

    Comment by Michael W

    Apostate! You’ll be plunged into bubbling hot meat sauce and attacked by serpentine pasta for that heresy.

    My only concern with a Mormon Prez is all the digging up the back yard looking for manuscripts and golden swords and such. Not to mention the stables they’ll build out back for the winged horses.

    Gott Mitt Uns?

    PS congrats on 15 years.

  • Sure, Mormonism is as goofy as they come, but I’ll try to give Mitt a pass on it.

    What, you haven’t had enough with delusional presidents? Isn’t religion considered by most people to be the basis for their life? So you’d gladly elect to be the leader of the USA some guy who is naive enough to willfully set aside his rationality and glom onto a patently bogus religion to build his life around?

    I hope I live long enough to see the day when an atheist can be elected president of this country. As far as I’m concerned, if I knew not one other thing about Romney, the very fact that he’s a Mormon would absolutely keep me from considering a vote for him. If he really believes all that BS, he’s off the deep end, no matter how nice he talks otherwise. If he doesn’t believe it, then he’s a liar to call himself a Mormon. Moron, yes.

  • Pres. Lindsay,
    I have never met anyone who was not delusional about something. We all suffer some some mind imprisoning belief or cultural construct of some kind whether you realize it or not. I am much more concerned about the techno/optimist mind frame that seduces individuals and engulfs this country than any screwy religious beliefs.

  • “Hell, just 20 short years ago they were still debating whether or not Catholics were Christians.” – Andy PHX

    I don’t think they have actually stopped debating that.

  • Being my usually picky self:
    Actually, i believe that the story is that God led Joseph Smith to the place where the tablets were found, and that they were ‘translated’ mostly by the angel. If you’ve read the Book of Mormon, it is one of the more hilarious of ‘sacred-texts’ with about every fifth verse starting ‘and it came to pass’ and some really wacky beliefs about the remnants of the Jews settling America before the time of Christ.

    Of course, any religion which supplies its inner circle of followers with special long-johns (‘temple underwear’) that they are always supposed to wear is high on the absurdity spectrum. And don’t forget, when you are discussing ‘convenient revelations’ that originally Mormons taught that blacks could not be ministers — or whatever they call them — but when the civil rights movement noticed this, gee the elder of the time happened to get a revelation that they were wrong about this.

    • Comments are closed.