Monday’s Mini-Report

Today’s edition of quick hits.

* Bill Clinton and Barack Obama spoke on the phone today, reportedly for about 20 minutes, and both issued statements afterwards indicating that it went well. I shudder to think about the extent to which their statements will be parsed and analyzed for evidence of animosity.

* I’ll try and have more on Obama’s Missouri speech on patriotism tomorrow, but in the meantime, here’s a good report on his remarks.

* McClatchy: “The Pentagon Monday announced a proposed death penalty prosecution of a Saudi man at Guantánamo, alleging he organized the October 2000 suicide bombing of the USS Cole off Aden, Yemen, that killed 17 American sailors…. It seeks to try him by military commission at the U.S. Navy base in southeast Cuba, and execute him if convicted.”

* AP: “Former detainees of the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq are suing U.S. contractors in four states for alleged torture…. The complaints allege that innocent people who were arrested and taken to the prison were subjected to forced nudity, electrical shocks, mock executions and other inhumane treatment by employees of defense contractors CACI International and L-3 Communications, formerly Titan Corporation. The plaintiffs are represented by law firms in Philadelphia and Detroit and by the Center for Constitutional Rights.”

* We never really stopped having to deal with the consequences of the administration’s early catastrophic errors in Iraq: “The U.S. Army’s official history of the Iraq war shows military chiefs made mistake after mistake in the early months of the conflict.”

* It’s stunning to see just how badly major media outlets screwed up reports on Wesley Clark today, over and over again.

* The Mukasey Justice Department sure does like to act like the Gonzales Justice Department: “Two weeks ago, Chairman Henry Waxman (R-CA) of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee issued subpoenas for FBI paperwork regarding interviews with President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney on the outing of CIA operative Valerie Plame. And now the Justice Department has responded: Think again, Henry.”

* Keep an eye on this one: “The Bush administration said Monday it will delay paying doctors for treating Medicare patients in early July to give Congress more time to block a scheduled 10.6 percent fee cut. The decision by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services doesn’t block the cut, scheduled to take place Tuesday. It’s up to Congress to decide that. But to give Congress more time to act, the agency will instruct its contractors not to process any physician or non-physician Medicare claims for health care services given during the first 10 business days of July.”

* Have the National Journal rankings about the “most liberal” senator not been debunked enough already?

* Lieberman and the White House agree on the likelihood terrorism. It must be a day that ends in “y.”

* I guess this is some sort of progress for free speech: “The fence around the public demonstration zone outside the Democratic National Convention will be chicken wire or chain link, authorities revealed in U.S. District Court today. That may allow protestors to be seen and heard by delegates going in and out of the Pepsi Center during the convention.”

* I get the feeling Nevada Governor Jim Gibbons (R) is not exactly the kind of guy you’d call “pro-family.”

* Good news, we probably have nothing to fear from the latest atom-smashing experiment. (thanks to R.K. for the heads-up)

* The no-bid contracts have not gone unnoticed: “Sen. Charles Schumer called Monday for an independent probe into the Iraqi government’s decision to open the country’s oil fields to foreign oil companies. ‘This is a head fake by the Iraqi government,’ Schumer said just hours after the Iraqis announced their plan. ‘The Iraqis have shown they will pursue these contracts at all costs, their nation’s political stability be damned.'”

* And Ari Fleischer’s father, a Democrat, told his local paper that “if his son was going to rebel, it’s better I became a Republican than a drug dealer — but not by much.”

Anything to add? Consider this an end-of-the-day open thread.

“The fence around the public demonstration zone outside the Democratic National Convention will be chicken wire or chain link, authorities revealed in U.S. District Court today. That may allow protestors to be seen and heard by delegates going in and out of the Pepsi Center during the convention.”

How nice of the “Now We’re All For Obama And We Always Were” wing of the Democratic Party to let the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party participate in American democracy.

Senator Obumma: meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

  • * I’ll try and have more on Obama’s Missouri speech on patriotism tomorrow, but in the meantime, here’s a good report on his remarks.

    Seems Obama has a problem with 60’s counter culture. Yeah?, well f23k you man. They showed more bravery than I’m seeing from you lately.

  • I’ll try and have more on Obama’s Missouri speech on patriotism tomorrow, but in the meantime, here’s a good report on his remarks.

    Patriotism means to cheer for your countrymen in the World Cup or the Olympics.

    It’s Obama opponents who assert that his speeches lack substance, and it’s these same political opponents who force him to make speeches about patriotism, one of the most unsubstantial words in American culture.

  • I still want to know what “statement ” by Clark the Obama campaign “rejects”. Was it the statement that said riding in a plane that is shot down and being captured and held as a pow does not make McCain more qualified than Obama to be president. If it’s not the statement that he respects McCain’s service and considered him to be a hero what else could he reject except this doesn’t make Obama less qualified than McCain to be president.

    Bill Burton…STFU. It was probably him that told Obama that he should also support a Bush enabling incumbent Georia dem rep over an aligned with Obama progressive Georgia primary challenger dem. He doesn’t know what he’s doing just what is convenient.

    We’re just trying not to lose…who cares about winning. Idiot

  • “The Bush administration said Monday it will delay paying doctors for treating Medicare patients in early July to give Congress more time to block a scheduled 10.6 percent fee cut.

    I found this caption to be misleading as was the WaPo story on it Saturday. The House has overwhelmingly passed a bill to keep doctor payments where they are. The Senate Repubs blocked the bill by one vote. This would have dropped the doctor rates and many doctors have said they would then refuse to treat medicare patients. Reid then decided to take a week to let Republicans stew in the bad news that they blocked the bill, so Bush blocked the implementation of the new plan, even though he plans to veto this bill. It sounds like he’s trying to force a compromise on something, but what?

  • The Pentagon Monday announced a proposed death penalty prosecution of a Saudi man at Guantánamo, alleging he organized the October 2000 suicide bombing of the USS Cole off Aden, Yemen, that killed 17 American sailors…. It seeks to try him by military commission at the U.S. Navy base in southeast Cuba, and execute him if convicted.

    When will we learn the basic truth that violence begets violence? The death penalty, under any circumstances, is our continuing disgrace.

  • Read your CERN link. Now I know what it must feel like to support flat earth, I.D. and GOP. It’s tough being ignorant.

  • Read your CERN link.

    Does anybody know what this person is talking about? If so, please enlighten me.

  • Eight years later, and they finally think about trying the guy?

    Excuse me, but a giant WTF. I am dubious of the timing to say the least.

  • what Chopin is talking about or what the article is talking about?

    I hate to assume, but if you mean you dont know what Chopin is talking about, you may want to actually read the articles in the Mini Report before throwing stones.

    if you meant what is the article talking about, that is a whole different matter and I retract my above comment.

    (the point being that CERN is discussed in one of the linked articles. yes, i’m intentionally being an ass and not saying which.)

  • Trista (8) Does anybody know what this person is talking about? If so, please enlighten me.

    He’s talking about the link in the story about the atom smashing equipment (third from the bottom).

  • For me, the story of the week is buried away in an aside in a NBC article on McCain’s spending plans. In order to justify himself as economically competent, you’ll recall that he’s on the record as saying that pretty much everything in the world can be afforded if we just cut out the pork barrel spending:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25441188/

    The really interesting quote is on page two:

    McCain promises to shave at least $35 billion annually from the federal budget by eliminating earmarks. Tough enough, considering Congress spent only around $15 billion on earmarks last year.

    I wonder if any of America’s fine and upstanding press corp will have the temerity to ask Senator McCain about this $20b a year discrepancy?

  • Thanks Danp for the assist.

    No, asshole at No. 10, I was not throwing stones. And no, I do not read every article that CB links to before scanning the comments. I think it’s safe to say that I’m in the majority in this regard.

  • I’m disappointed with Obama’s reaction to Clark’s comment– it would have been nice to see his campaign try to clarify Clark’s remark instead of piling on with McBush and the MSM. Pick your battles and all that, I suppose.

    It appears that they’re hedging their bets that out of context it sounds bad and off-message so they’re treating it as such. I just hope it doesn’t become something they do too often.

  • “It’s stunning to see just how badly major media outlets screwed up reports on Wesley Clark today, over and over again.”

    Yeah, and even more stunning how quickly the Obama campaign joined the lynch mob. Only they didn’t screw it up. They just strung him up for saying something politically indelicate, knowing full well what he said was right, but not giving a damn because it was considered politically inexpedient to stand behind him.

  • Here is an interesting quote from the article about Obama’s speech, linked by CB:

    “Obama’s speech was first planned for this spring, when the rumors began to gain ground. At the suggestion of former senator Bill Bradley, Obama had hoped to deliver it in Gettysburg, Pa., a wrenching site for such an address from the first African American nominee of a major party. But the Wright controversy supplanted patriotism with race as Obama’s primary concern, and the speech was postponed.

    The Obama campaign today denied having had such plans.”

    The article also notes that Wes Clark was echoing comments made earlier by another Obama surrogate (Rockefeller?), which supports my contention that the remarks about McCain’s service were part of the campaign, not an unfortunate gaffe by Clark. Here is my point — patriotism is not about symbols, such as using Gettysburg as a race-card backdrop (much as Bush did with servicemen and aircraft carriers). It is about sacrifice and service, the last full measure of devotion. Military people are asked to give that. Community activists are not. The service is not comparable, nor is the commitment. I’m sure Obama loves his country, but he loves his comfy life too. McCain was willing to put his life on the line. Obama wasn’t. That’s why McCain’s service matters, even if he joined up but never saw action. McCain put himself in harm’s way for his country. Obama made the choice not to do that.

    When Obama explains that he has taken his patriotism for granted, he doesn’t win points. We are all taught as children not to do that — it is the point of saying the pledge of allegiance and singing the national anthem that we not do so. It is why we have fireworks on the 4th. How does Obama’s statement solve anything?

    I do not buy Obama’s argument that the 60s counterculture taught people to regard dissent as unpatriotic. The 50’s, where everyone was suspected of being a red, were much more pernicious because they punished people for participation during earlier decades when dissent was organized by communist and socialist organizations. The red scare had a chilling effect on dissent. The presence (suspected or real) of enemy agents in government or the media made people suspicious and hostile toward dissent — it wasn’t the 60s dissenters themselves who did that. If anything, I think the 60s made dissent possible again because it was middle-class kids doing it. They, in turn, made the dissent of the civil rights movement possible because protesters such as MLK were joined by Ivy League college students who could not be imagined as subversive. The 60s made dissent patriotic again. This kind of nonsense from Obama is perhaps why so many boomers didn’t support him.

    Obama is also a bit off base when he refers to Mark Twain in a speech about patriotism. He clearly hasn’t read much of Twain’s writing. But, the name does evoke warm fuzzies, so throw it in there.

    But, the overall problem is that Obama is using words to address a problem that requires action. What has Obama done to demonstrate his patriotism? His strongest points are when he talks about the ideals of the nation, how these are embodied in the community activism he engaged in after college, and how his vision for America is a deeply patriotic one because it embodies the core values of our founding fathers, yada yada. It is hard to tell whether he said any of that in the excerpts linked to, but when someone wishes to serve his country after being excluded or marginalized from the mainstream or the good things of society, and still pledges his life to the betterment not only of African Americans but all citizens, that is a powerful argument. Unfortunately, it is not one Obama can convincingly make because he was a full participant in such goodies, from his prep school and Harvard education to his current comfortable lifestyle in Chicago. Which brings us full circle to the character issue. Why did Obama lie about his previous plans for this speech, and why does he consider patriotism something you demonstrate using media events instead of self-sacrifice?

  • 1: Getting harder to believe, but Obama actually was nominated by a “Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party” group. Hillary was the choice of the other side. And 2: like Obama, his supporters never experienced the 60s, and, because of 40 years of rightwing propaganda, don’t appreciate them as much as they should. I was pretty shocked too when I found out (Richmond Times Dispatch interview, February), now I’m just resigned.

    I’d hoped Wesley Clark was going to be the vice presidential candidate; it would have been a good balance. O’s refusal to support Clark, who supported him and only told the truth, is really discouraging. Is Robert Shrum back? I hope that’s not Dukakis I’m smelling…. All in all, a bad week for O that’s stretching into ten days.

  • Wesley Clark is being Swiftboated and Barack Obama and the Democrats are once again cowering. After Obama’s responce to this there is no critisizm of John McCain that will be allowed. Bad, bad, move. Obama’s had a bad coeuple of weeks…hmmm and its been since he brought on a few Clinton strategists.

  • Obama personifies that old warning: be careful of what you wish for.

    He still has my vote – with no enthusiasm.

  • Obama is using his same old technique. Use a surrogate or supporter to say something out-of-bounds. Have the candidate deny it. But the message is still out there and it got a lot of play because it was so out-of-bounds. It is an ugly and dishonest technique and Obama has used this approach all along.

    You can be disappointed in Obama for not standing up for Clark, but that was never the plan. I think you should be disappointed in Obama for using such a gutless way to attack his opponent. It stinks as a method of campainging, particular from someone who touts new politics. The media and his supporters should call him on his dishonesty, not on his unwillingness to own Clark’s words.

  • Clark made this very same criticism of McCain in mid June on MSNBC where he is an analyst. Yesterday’s comments by Clark differed from his mid June comments in only one detail. In mid June, he did not bring up McCain’s POW experience on his own. It was only when the MSNBC anchor reacted to Clark’s remarks by suggesting that the POW experience was relevant, that Clark said that it wasn’t. He was, as he was yesterday, respectful of McCain’s service to the Country.

    There was no coordinated outrage from right wing and the McCain camp in mid June. One can only guess that the Clark argument must have been causing the McCain camp some trouble. Hence the heavy push back today.

  • Now for something completely different.

    The House Judiciary Committee, which is investigating whether certain public corruption probes were politically motivated, has subpoenaed the Justice Department for documents related to the prosecutions of Dr. Cyril H. Wecht and former Alabama Gov. Don Siegelman.

  • * Bill Clinton and Barack Obama spoke on the phone today, reportedly for about 20 minutes, and both issued statements afterwards indicating that it went well. I shudder to think about the extent to which their statements will be parsed and analyzed for evidence of animosity. — CB

    Well, if they used Verizon or AT&T phone service, chances are we might be able to dissect the entire conversation instead of just the statements.

  • Jim Gibbons? Family Values?

    Is this the same Jim Gibbons:

    Trepp’s wife e-mails her husband: “Please don’t forget to bring the money you promised Jim and Dawn on the trip.”

    Hours later, Trepp e-mails back: “Don’t ever send this kind of message to me! Erase this message from your computer now!”

    There also is a paper trail showing Gibbons helped Trepp’s company, eTreppid, get government contracts.

    In a 2003 e-mail, an eTreppid executive tells Trepp that Gibbons helped secure a contract and “we need to take care of him like we discussed.” Two years later, the same executive writes, “He [Gibbons] has always been really good to us.”

  • Man, I was worried that Mary’s whiny sad-trombone noise would go away once Hillary Clinton endorses Obama.

    Thank God we can still enjoy the dulcet sounds of our own Debby Downer.

  • Okay, I guess I’m not resigned. After reading Obama’s speech, I posted this to the Obama campaign:

    From your speech today:
    “…Meanwhile, some of those in the so-called counter-culture of the Sixties reacted not merely by criticizing particular government policies, but by attacking the symbols, and in extreme cases, the very idea, of America itself – by burning flags; by blaming America for all that was wrong with the world; and perhaps most tragically, by failing to honor those veterans coming home from Vietnam, something that remains a national shame to this day.
    .
    Most Americans never bought into these simplistic world-views….”

    Have you ever bothered to learn anything about activists of the 60s at all? I’m sorry, but if it weren’t for them, you wouldn’t be the Democratic nominee for President, you’d still be trying to desegregate a lunch counter, only now it would be a McDonalds. It was the “so-called Counterculture” that broke for good and all the hold that McCarthyism had on this country and punched the first real holes in the racism that had persisted since the Civil War. We didn’t give parades for those who cooperated in the immoral tragedy of Vietnam, but we differentiated between those in both parties who caused it and those who were caught up in it. “Failing to honor the veterans” is a myth created by the discredited columnist Bob Greene, who claimed for his own purposes that “hippies spit on” vets. It’s been repeated often enough that you seem to have bought into it. Only one with no real knowledge of the era could have done so.

    I had hoped that Wesley Clark would be your running mate; it would have been a good balance to the ticket. To turn on one who supported you and only told the simple truth (McCain was never much of a credit to the military for reasons that have been amply stated) is craven, reminiscent of such failed candidacies as Dukakis and Kerry.

    In order to be elected, you need the Boomers, and you need those who appreciate true patriots like Wesley Clarke. Time to be tutored in the real history, not the fake Nixon/Reagan/Bush version, and time to make peace with the courageous activists of the 60s who sacrificed careers and commercial success to do their best for their country and the world. Sneering at the Counterculture does not become you.

  • ericfree said: “Failing to honor the veterans” is a myth created by the discredited columnist Bob Greene, who claimed for his own purposes that “hippies spit on” vets. It’s been repeated often enough that you seem to have bought into it. Only one with no real knowledge of the era could have done so.

    I had forgotten about that. You’re right. Good point.

  • I’m guilty of being too idealistic at times, naive at others. But I think some of the comments above are a bit simplistic. Obama isn’t perfect, and with everything he does viewed under a scanning electron microscope, he’s going to make mistakes. You nor I are going to agree with him on everything — I don’t agree with my spouse on everything, but she’s a damned fine human being.

    But the larger consideration folks are missing is the environment Obama is operating in. He’s fighting 40 years worth of Republican framing, with a party behind him that’s been completely impotent in allowing it to become established (and lost elections because of it). He’s fighting a right wing noise machine for which the left has no counterbalance. He’s fighting a media machine that goes nuts over a simple truth such as Clark uttered today, that nails him for months on Wright and gives McCain a pass on Hagee. In some cases, he’s fighting racial prejudice; in other cases, he’s fighting fear that whites have toward a culture they simply don’t understand. He’s trying to put a party back together that was split by a very competitive primary.

    He’s got to be careful, but not overly cautious. He’s got to tell the truth, except when Americans don’t want to hear the truth and it would be politically stupid. He’s got to end a war that can’t be won without appearing to lose. He’s got to fund initiatives without raising taxes. Oh, and he has to be a good politician without being too much of a politician.

    Our political environment and public discourse have been so twisted by the disingenuous right and and impotent left that no one person is going to fix it — if indeed it’s already not too late. I do believe he’s going to nudge things in a more positive direction than Clinton or McCain.

    I think he’s wrong on FISA and his spokesperson was wrong today on Clark, but I never expected a savior. Walking on water isn’t realistic. Progress would be just fine.

  • http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/06/dcbased_fundraising_firm_raise.php

    TPM Muckraker summarizes an article from the Boston Globe about a firm, BMW Direct, which raises money for various conservative candidates, from conservatives across the country. Only, BMW Direct must stand for “direct access to a BMW, for every employee”; the firm collects, say, half a mil, dispenses about $20K to the candidate and keeps the rest for itself.

    The bit that caught my eye especially was a partial list of the firm’s clients, which includes the presidential candidate Barr. Perhaps his lackluster fundraising is the result of being a client/dupe of this firm?

  • A statement from Clark via Atrios.

    “There are many important issues in this Presidential election, clearly one of the most important issues is national security and keeping the American people safe. In my opinion, protecting the American people is the most important duty of our next President. I have made comments in the past about John McCain’s service and I want to reiterate them in order be crystal clear. As I have said before I honor John McCain’s service as a prisoner of war and a Vietnam Veteran. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands and millions of others in Armed Forces as a prisoner of war. I would never dishonor the service of someone who chose to wear the uniform for our nation.

    “John McCain is running his campaign on his experience and how his experience would benefit him and our nation as President. That experience shows courage and commitment to our country – but it doesn’t include executive experience wrestling with national policy or go-to-war decisions. And in this area his judgment has been flawed – he not only supported going into a war we didn’t have to fight in Iraq, but has time and again undervalued other, non-military elements of national power that must be used effectively to protect America But as an American and former military officer I will not back down if I believe someone doesn’t have sound judgment when it comes to our nation’s most critical issues.”

  • beep52, what happened today was inevitable. If it wasn’t Clark it would have been someone else that would have got the mighty Wurlitzer humming. Obama and his campaign must have known this and yet they could do no better than to respond in the typical Democratic beta dog way by throwing Clark under the bus. Why weren’t they prepared?

  • here are words
    to fill a page
    pages fill a book
    the choicest words
    the wisest sage
    count nothing
    if you don’t look
    in between the
    lines and spaces
    here you’ll find
    your goal
    half impertinence
    half eternal soul

  • For a several hours my curiosity about McCain and the reasons why he got shot down over Vietnam especially in a lake near the middle of Hanoi was leading to a lot of questions about McCain.

    Further, anyone could search to find out McCain took part in some horse play way back then, which resulted in the Navy’s single most horrific accident recorded in history. McCain was quietly shuttled away from the mess. Here, the same as Bush, records have been scrubbed, likely because McCain’s father happened to be the North European Commander during the Vietnam War. McCain was no “Maverick” as by the descriptions actually McCain was more like “Jinx” that was a magnet for wildly irresponsible horrible incidents that surrounded McCains activities.

    I recall even Pat Buchanan saying that it was common knowledge that McCain was not a very good pilot. Plus taking a Sky Hawk into enemy air was considered foolish and only a risk adventure. Should have never been used. But, was a common practice. Today so is a common practice of a back door draft and poor amour on hummer’s. So we know the common practice of the military is just that “practice without accountability”. Mercenaries all over the place.

    Moreover, the ejection seats in this model have been known to have serious flaws and defects that the Navy ignored. Records have been scrubbed for horrible accidents in ejections to include complete destruction of the spinal core in emergency situations that killed some service members. Besides, fracturing any part of the upper body including shoulders or arms. One might argue that the North Vietnam doctors did favor to work on McCains injuries that might not have been torture, but self inflicted. Under these pressures and knowing McCain’s father was a prominent commander in the American war theater during this time a lot crazy things could have been bargained for. Totally, these design flaws were kept silent during and after the war, or likely destroyed by now.

    McCains family is a highly regarded military connected bunch, such as that described by Eisenhower. That factor of the military industrial complex to be aware of in the future. Here America will likely be taken control of, by a government of fanatics, toward a totalitarian form. Heck for another hundred years if McCain has his way.

  • this will probably be about as pleasant as a punch to the dick, but I’m genuinely curious:

    Hey! PUMA Plant Mary!

    Instead of whining/opining rhetorically “what has Obama done to prove his patriotism” howzabout YOU answer that question FOR HIM??? What does Black Hole Mary think that that nonimation-stealin’ Barack HUSSEIN Obama (gosh, Mary, ain’t that just black folk? Always stealin’ white people’s shit?) SHOULD do, or should have done, to prove his patriotism? What’s on the Mary short list of patrioic to-dos? If he got that list done before November, would you still vote for McCain?

    Seriously, what does a patriotic Obama need to do? Run a Scout troop? Feed veterans whose arms were blown off in Bush’s war in Iraq? (Ironically, Bush himself doesn’t have to feed those vets. His patriotism isn’t in question because…you know… he’s white) Run a recycling drive in your neighborhood? Teach the world to sing in perfect harmony? Buy the world a Coke & keep it company? Train retarded kids to swim in the Special Olympics? Learn to “sign” “I’m proud to be an American” for deaf patriots? Tie a yellow ribbon to every American-made car in Chicago? At what point is he patriotic enough FOR YOU?

    For once, someone gives a shit what you think. Don’t dick it up now.

  • fuck you and the horse you rode in on asshole. no progressive would say shit like that – go back to the freeper sites you belong on, you insensitive son of a bitch.

    i hope any children you have a severely deformed. die a painful death and rot in hell.

    pretty easy to talk smack behind 1000 miles of cable; ever say anything like that near me and you’ll be throwing up your teeth for a week. if anyone is “retarded” here it is the person who uses that as a casual insult.

    sincerely,

    father of a “retarded” daughter who participates in special olympics.

  • Hey, Slappy, Youre An Asshole!

    It’s me! Slappy! You know…The Asshole!

    You’re further proof that trolls love to not understand the context of what’s being said so they can feign outrage!

    Black Hole Mary asks what Obama’s done to prove he’s patriotic.

    I ask Black Hole Mary what she thinks Obama HAS to do to prove he’s patriotic! Because I got a sneaking suspicion that, for closet republican/racists like Black Hole Mary, nothing will ever prove he’s good enough.

    The GOP loves people like you. Because you raise your hackles the nanosecond you see a word that offends you regardless of context.

    So before adding me to your enemies list, why not take the 45 minutes out of your day for YOU to re-read what I wrote again…in context…don’t look for your buzzword “retarded” and assume anyone who uses it must enjoy making fun of the mentally challenged…and then figure out if what I said was really insulting to anyone who is or knows a retarded person.

    And then you can go back to being Black Hole Mary and stop trying to hide behind a new screen name to say what you really want to say to me. Pathetic.

  • Eh, this is probably a moot point and all, but for the sake of being a total noodge, am I the only one who finds it MILDLY ironic that “Slappy, Youre An Asshole” talks about me (Slappy) “talk(ing) smack behind 1000 miles of cable,” yet this supposed “father of a retarded’ daughter who participates in special olympics” was just as much of a pussy as I supposedly am? Unless, of course, his Christian name is “Slappy, You’re An Asshole,” and I for one would think if your surname were “You’re An Asshole” you’d probably it change tout suite. Especially if you had a retarded daughter! Kids at school can be so cruel and to give her the baggage of a last name with “asshole” in it is probably worse than having a name with a word in it that SOUNDS like “asshole.” “Smasshole” for example.

    So, yeah, we’re both a couple of pussies, there, John Doe. Tell your nonexistent daughter you made up for the sake of convenience of telling me off I said Hi.

  • my daughter exists.
    she was born with a serious congenital cognitive defect (and some other physical manifestations as well).

    there are people on here who know me IRL, they can vouch for her existence – a sweet, determined girl who will always have to struggle.

    you are a lying sack of shit. i did not take your comment out of context. your use of “retarded” was gratuitous and had nothing to do with Mary or your point. you were, in fact, making fun of the mentally challenged and it is there for all to see.

    yeah, i’m pretty sensitive to people making light of being “retarded.” I think I’ve earned it.

    and now you continue to make fun of my daughter. glad everyone gets to see what a smug, self-righteous prick you are.

    but hey, believe what you will and rant insensitively all you want. after all, there aren’t real people out here, just nonexistent fathers and their daugthers in Special Olympics. a lot of people here know my postings; i’ll let them judge whether i am just making this up as a reason to come after you. i feel pretty good about my chances.

    you’re a lot of things. progressive sure isn’t one of them. and my “retarded” daughter has a lot more to offer than you ever will.

  • let me just add – i dont care for Mary either, but the “going after Mary” excuse doesn’t give you unlimited license. you went way, way over the line.

  • no, I didn’t. You’re oversensitive to the issue, I said nothing wrong about the mentally retarded, & if you’re going to change your screen name every time you misinterpret what someone wries to wish ill will on them & THEIR children, really, you’re just as far away from the “high road” as you think I am.
    I guess I’m not a “typical progressive” as I’m not about to take your bullshit. I’l suggest, again, you read what I wrote. What did I say that was so bad to the mentally retarded? Do they NOT enter the Special Olympics? Do they NOT need to learn how to swim? Would it be wrong for someone to want to teach them to swim? No? Then STFU..

  • Would you be as proud defending your post if you’d said “niggers in the midnight basketball camp?” “faggots in community theater?” do you think it’d have gone over well with your audience?

    “retarded” seems to be one of the few derogatory terms that somehow is still just peachy to casually toss around.

    seems being the key word. it isn’t. and i wont STFU about it.
    you’re an insensitive ass.

  • Oh, that’s friggin’ rich. The guy who wished deformities on my child and death on me is saying *I’M* insensitive.

    Listen up, Cranky Pants, last time it came up in any conversation *I* had, “retarded” and “Mentally retarded” were OK terms, appropriate even, and “retard” was the line you dare not cross. To say “retarded” and “mentally retarded” meant you were describing a condition, and to say “retard” (or, worse, “tard”) was to ascribe a negative connotation to the person dealing with said retardation. “Retard” was the “nigger” of mentally handicapped insults. So, therefore, I would never have said “niggers in the midnight basketball camp” or “faggots in community theater,” because those are derogative terms. If “retarded” has become a baaaad word in the past 30 years, it sure hasn’t been broadcast in my neck of the woods. You may caught it as an insult, but that’s not how I threw it. Seems to me, a REAL Progressive, as you would define them, would’ve have oh-so-patiently explained that that term is now verboten. Maybe you should go visit some freeper sites, where you can get your hate-on with other like-minded individuals.

    (Oh, I vaguely remember a time in the early nineties “when mentally disabled” was de rigeur but the mentally retarded had a beef with it, because “disabled” had physical connotations associated with it, and since they had control of all their fingers and all their toes, “disabled” was right out. What, you think you’re the only person with retarded people in their family, you self-righteous jackass?)

    Jesus, I can’t believe I even have to have this discussion with a supposed grownup.

    You know what else I find hypocritical? I also made comments about deaf people & armless veterans, and you didn’t bat a friggin’ eye. I guess you pick and choose why you wish death on people who anger you. HOW VERY PROGRESSIVE OF YOU.

    And once again, thank you so very much for obscuring the point of my post (but don’t worry, I’ll make it again, and elsewhere): Black Hole Mary questioned Obama’s patriotism. I want to know what she thinks he’s gotta do to prove he’s patriotic. I’ll include “Does Obama have to teach Slappy You’re an Asshole Slash -daze reading comprehension skills?”

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