Most scientists believe the Earth is round

Guest Post by Morbo

The United States entered World War II after Pearl Harbor was attacked on Dec. 7, 1941. Victory in Europe Day was celebrated in May of 1945, and Victory in Japan Day occurred the following August.

We can safely say that World War II, at least as far as the United States’ military involvement is concerned, took place from 1941-45. If I began arguing that World War II actually occurred in the 1920s, you’d say I was crazy.

No journalist in his right mind would write something like, “Most historians believe World War II occurred between 1941-45.” Yet how many times have you seen a story about the supposed conflict between evolution and creationism that portrays the two as rough equivalents when in fact the former is well established scientific fact and latter is a ton of horse manure?

This drives me crazy. Why does it keep happening? In part because journalists are trained to give both sides of an issue. If Mr. Jones is accused of robbing a bank, a reporter might write, “Police say Jones robbed the bank on Thursday, but Jones insists he was at home during the robbery.” A court will sort out which side is correct eventually, but for the time being the story must be written this way because not all of the facts are known.

Journalists don’t need to write like this when the facts are known. Recently, Leonard Steinhorn and Charles Steinhorn wrote a great column on the History News Network, a site run by George Mason University, pointing this out.

Leonard Steinhorn is a professor of communication at American University and Charles Steinhorn is a professor of mathematics at Vassar College. The two are brothers. In their column, they smack down the idea that journalistic balance requires evolution and creationism to be treated equally.

The two write:

Recently we conducted a newspaper database search of the phrase ‘believe in evolution’ and found nearly a thousand citations from the last five years. Typical is a New York Times article that describes a married couple as “Christians who believe in evolution,” which suggests that scientific evidence and facts, like religion, can be true or false based on whether we believe in them or not. […]

Compounding the problem is the he-said, she-said style of journalism so prevalent today, which leaves media vulnerable to a trap set by proponents of the latest attack on evolution, “intelligent design,” which is little more than an artifice devised to inject religion into the biology classroom.

Bingo. You see, I can really, seriously, strongly and sincerely believe that World War II occurred in the 1920s. No matter. It still occurred in the ’40s. My belief that it occurred in the 1920s need not be respected by the media or portrayed as plausible, as it is simply wrong.

This has implications for political reporting as well. When Candidate A accuses Candidate B of having raised taxes 12 times as governor, when in fact Candidate B raised them only 10 times, that is a distortion, the kind of thing that happens during campaigns. The record can be easily corrected. When Candidate A accuses Candidate B of being a Muslim when Candidate B has never in his life been a Muslim that is a made-up-out-of-whole-cloth, huge, honking, outright lie and should be labeled as such.

Being “fair and balanced” is important for news organizations, but some things are just facts and some beliefs, even those sincerely held, are just wrong. There is no need to balance truth with falsehood.

But Morbo, that would mean that many elite journalists would have to dig into the facts and actually do something investigative instead of taking down dication.

  • “We can safely say that World War II, at least as far as the United States’ military involvement is concerned, took place from 1941-45. If I began arguing that World War II actually occurred in the 1920s, you’d say I was crazy.”

    Actually, by my count, World War II took place from 1946 to 1990. Looking back with the benefit of hindsight, it’s obvious to me that the “peace” of 1919 set up the political field exactly as it was in 1914 and failed to solve the problems that led to the war. Hostilities simmered until 1939 and the situation was not resolved until 1945. As far as I’m concerned, this was all one big war.

    The second World War, by this theory, would be the decades-long conflict between the U.S. and the Soviet Union, which ended when the Soviet economy collapsed.

    Nonetheless, this is simply a reinterpretation of the same facts you’ve referred to. The problem with Creationism is the wholesale dismissal of thousands of people’s work as a pack of lies – the moon landing conspiracy on a super-large scale.

    I have a feeling that this will eventually get solved in the courts. Creationists will continue smearing scientists as serial liars distorting their facts to support the “theory” of evolution until a few of them start suing for libel.

  • Bill Maher once said, you can’t call yourself a think tank if all your ideas are stupid. And it may have been Maher, or one of the other pundits, who said, you don’t have to give both sides of an argument if one of them is stupid.

  • Morbo, to pick up on Splitting Image, I don’t think ANY historians would say WWII started in 1941. Ok, possibly a few cranks that believe all history revolves around the United States;>

    As to your bigger point, do any journalist outside of the US make this attempt at “balance”? I honestly don’t know and haven’t checked. I willing to guess that it is just another US-centric oddity we are forced to live with in a country full of stupid.

  • And now, rereading your opening paragraph, I see you mention as far as US military. Yet paragraph 2 has the absolute statement from the hypothetical journalist. So first we need to educate your hypothetical journalist;>

  • There is also the simple fact that the vast majority of “journalists” have absolutely no understanding of science and how it functions.

    Just talking of evolution as a theory shows this lack of comprehension. The fact of evolution has long since been settled. There are theories about mechanisms that drive evolution, but that evolution has and does occur is beyond dispute. It is the same as gravity. No one displutes the fact of gravity (at least not for long), but all we have are theories about the mechanisms of gravity. A so-called theory of “intelligent design” makes as much sense as a theory of “intelligent falling”.

  • In part because journalists are trained to give both sides of an issue. If Mr. Jones is accused of robbing a bank, a reporter might write, “Police say Jones robbed the bank on Thursday, but Jones insists he was at home during the robbery.” A court will sort out which side is correct eventually, but for the time being the story must be written this way because not all of the facts are known.

    Nitpick: Journalists make such statements about legal matters to avoid libel suits. I hate writing about pending legal cases because there are only so many ways you can say “alleged,” without exceeding the reader’s comprehension level.

    But here, the “debate” over the age of the planet doesn’t have squat to do with “balance,” neither does it have anything to do with the nefarious machinations of the TalEvan. It all boils down to lazy arsed reporters (and editors). Need to squeeze a few more ‘graphs out of a story? Easy, find some whack-a-loon and ask him what he thinks.

    I have to admit it sometimes makes me jealous. I write for a business publication and if I wrote “[Huge government agency] says everyone must X in order to receive payment, but Joe Cretin says that’s not true and everyone should stick beets up their nose,” my editor would take my pens away and bundle me off to a psychologist.

    And papers wonder why their circ rates keep slipping. Cretins.

    tAiO

    p.s Thanks for posting this, I’m going to send the article to some fellow Vassarites.

  • I have relatives who don’t believe in evolution, or rather don’t believe they are related to other primates. They do believe in Intelligent Design. I always tell them with a straight face that I have problems with Intelligent Design because we aren’t designed very well so how can it be intelligent?

  • …(H)ow many times have you seen a story about the supposed conflict between evolution and creationism that portrays the two as rough equivalents when in fact the former is well established scientific fact and latter is a ton of horse manure?
    This drives me crazy. Why does it keep happening?

    There is one and only one reason: management doesn’t want to piss off any possible, potential readers.
    They know that the rational folks will just go on, dismissing the ‘literalist’, ‘creationist maroons as the anti-intellectual, anti-rationality dickweeds they are.
    They don’t lose any readers among the rational community for their pandering to the prejudices and stupidities of the ‘faithful,’ who would instantly forsake the newspapers advertizing in a fucking heartbeat if their ‘side’ weren’t told with the ‘seriousness’ with which they believe themselves entitled.

  • …(H)ow many times have you seen a story about the supposed conflict between evolution and creationism that portrays the two as rough equivalents when in fact the former is well established scientific fact and latter is a ton of horse manure?
    This drives me crazy. Why does it keep happening?

    (I don’t think this is a dupe wordpass does)

    There is one and only one reason: management doesn’t want to piss off any possible, potential readers.
    They know that the rational folks will just go on, dismissing the ‘literalist’, ‘creationist maroons as the anti-intellectual, anti-rationality dickweeds they are.
    They don’t lose any readers among the rational community for their pandering to the prejudices and stupidities of the ‘faithful,’ who would instantly forsake the newspapers advertizing in a fucking heartbeat if their ‘side’ weren’t told with the ‘seriousness’ with which they believe themselves entitled.

  • I have to agree that very few historian would say WW2 started in 1941. They may say the US entered the fighting in 1941.(which I fully accept is what you were saying).

    I wonder though if a random selection of people were asked in the street what started WW2 and when did it start?.

    My betting is more than a few would say Pearl Harbor and 1941.

  • Controversy is sexy. It’s exciting. It stirs our emotions.

    Journalists and Infotainers (Misinfotainers?) want that. So they’ll create controversy where none exists (War on Christmas) and write stories that pit morons with genius, like it was a fair fight. If knowledge could cause a black eye, we’d be much better off.

  • #7 Bingo. In fact, as a country, we are woefully ignorant in the area of science. It’s pathetic, actually. It is why ID has flourished.

    IMO, lots of folks have the idea that if they personally can’t understand something, it must not be true. Which is ridiculous.

    Hannah, who has a degree in zoology, and that means the study of animals, not zoos, which contain animals, OK?

  • Typical is a New York Times article that describes a married couple as “Christians who believe in evolution,” which suggests that scientific evidence and facts, like religion, can be true or false based on whether we believe in them or not. […] — Steinhorn Bros

    I flip a toggle on the wall and the lightbulb on the ceiling comes to life. I’m told that it’s due to something called “electricity” — a bunch of invisible particles travels through the wires and makes magic happen. It really is hard to believe that what I’m told is true; it’s equally likely that a bunch of invisible elves sits in the switch, with matches and does their bit whenever they see my hand extend to the toggle.

    I think that’s where you get the “Christians who believe in evolution” construct. They’re willing to accept the word of scientists for something they cannot, empirically, check for themselves. So, to them (as to me), it’s a matter of “belief”. We believe that the scientists know what they’re talking about. But some people don’t trust scientists (all those absentminded professors, with their heads in the clouds, what do they know?). And so, they don’t believe in evolution, either.

  • As Fox news clearly demonstrates, “fair” means they not only lie to you but they lie to everybody. “Balanced” means they will lie about both sides of an issue to prove a point and the SC backs them on this. Whenever a reporter list “both sides” with the he said she said, when one side is clearly false (Joe Klein) I know they are just reciting dictation and posing the clearly wrong side as if it were somehow plausible or justified. They used to get away with this easily, after all, who could call them on it? That was before the internet with its series of tubes made playback and fact check readily available.

  • For those (and their number is steadily declining) who still believe in the fairy-tale of evolution, which is genetically impossible (it requires that creatures can increase their genetic information) and for which there is no evidence in the fossil record, try giving us a brief outline of the descent of man from amoeba and single-celled creatures down to ‘homo sapiens’.

    And if you can do that, try also telling us how non-life became life – without a pretty picture of a bolt of lightning fro ma dark sky, against a background of erupting volcanos and some sea.

    Huckabee is right on the issue of creation vs. evolution

  • Uuuhh, Tony? Stick to “I Left My Heart in San Francisco” and leave the science to those of us with a clue.

    Everything in your statement is false.

  • Wasn’t it about twenty years ago that news bureaus in the US got rid of all their researchers and just decided that they simply needed to find an “expert” representing “both sides” of every story? And noticed that people were as willing — or more willing — to watch this new, cheaper, news, then the old kind? That’s why reporting on the horserace of politics gets precedence over the facts of candidates’ positions — the horserace turns it into a gameshow, and we all like gameshows, don’t we? Much more entertaining than school.

    Of course, in today’s world, research should have become so much cheaper and faster, with the internet, but that still doesn’t make facts enough fun to catch our attention. (That’s assuming it isn’t all a vast, economic elite conspiracy, to keep the people dumb enough to keep voting in those who will do what they want…)

  • I see no-one’s accepted my challenge yet. Can’t say I’m surprised.

    According to this poll in 2004, 55% of Americans hadn’t been brainwashed into thinking that we evolved from amoeba. That’s very encouraging:

    QUOTE

    Poll: Creationism Trumps Evolution
    Most Americans Do Not Believe Human Beings Evolved
    NEW YORK, Nov. 22, 2004

    (CBS/AP)

    Adam And Eve Vs. Darwin

    A CBS/New York Times poll finds more Americans believe God – not evolution – is responsible for human beings. It’s an issue that divides Americans, reports Mark Strassmann.

    (CBS) (This poll was conducted November 18-21, 2004.)

    Americans do not believe that humans evolved, and the vast majority says that even if they evolved, God guided the process. Just 13 percent say that God was not involved. But most would not substitute the teaching of creationism for the teaching of evolution in public schools.

    47 percent of John Kerry’s voters think God created humans as they are now, compared with 67 percent of Bush voters.

    VIEWS ON EVOLUTION/CREATIONISM

    God created humans in present form: All Americans – 55%

    Humans evolved, God guided the process: All Americans – 27%

    Humans evolved, God did not guide process: All Americans – 13%

    Overall, about two-thirds of Americans want creationism taught along with evolution. Only 37 percent want evolutionism replaced outright. More than half of Kerry voters want creationism taught alongside evolution. Bush voters are much more willing to want creationism to replace evolution…

    END QUOTE

  • In today’s news…

    “WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The National Academy of Sciences on Thursday issued a spirited defense of evolution as the bedrock principle of modern biology…”

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080104/sc_nm/evolution_usa_dc_4

    Being journalism, it’s forced to use some conventions. Wait for it…

    “Creationism, based on the explanation offered in the Bible, and the related idea of “intelligent design” are not science and, as such, should not be taught in public school science classrooms, according to the report.”

  • Uuuuuh, Tony? You have offered no challenge. You have simply regurgitated previously refuted crap from creationist Web sites. That you even think evolution is “amoebas to man” shows that you understand so little of the topic that all anyone should do is refer you to a basic biology text or to the TalkOrigins Archive.

    Until you’ve done that, step away from Mommy’s computer and go back to the coloring book. And stay inside the lines!

  • Jen at 9:

    you’ve nailed it. The late Steven Jay Gould used to point out that the makeshift nature of adaptations is exactly the best reason to believe in evolution. The Panda’s ‘thumb’ is a prime example. Pandas need thumbs to strip the bamboo leaves off the stems (that’s their only food), but don’t have any. The Panda’s ‘thumb’ is in fact an overgrown wrist bone that sort of serves the purpose. Not the kind of design work I’d expect from an omniscient, omnipotent being. Even Tony could do better.

  • We are all sloppy and/or lazy with how we present our arguments sometimes. What I find equally egregious is all the ‘scientific’ shows, even on PBS, that attribute evolutionary adaptations to conscious decision. There was a show on PBS the other day about plants that did it ceaselessly. I don’t know if they ever did give an accurate description of how evolution works; I got so disgusted that I turned it off.

    Even Dawkins, in his most seminal works, falls into the trap repeatedly, but he knows it and every 20 pages or so reiterates the more wordy, less anthropomorphic explanation.

  • azportsider said: “The late Steven Jay Gould used to point out…”

    REPLY: He was the chap who, after noticing that the fossil record showed absolutley no evidence of change from one species to another, but merely variation within a ‘kind’, or species, suggested the laughable theory of ‘punctuated equilibrium’ to get round this awkward fact.

    Indeed, he proposed that after no change in a species for tens of millions of years, there would be a sudden rapid burst of ‘evolution’ whereby one species rapidly changed into another. It was not a million miles away from the even more absurd ‘hopeful monsters’ theory.

    So rapidly, in fact, that it left no trace in the fossil record!

    A theory, then, for which there was a complete absence of evidence.

    And they call this ‘science’!

    Oh dear

  • Evolution’s Deathtrap

    As parents, we are to “train up a child in the way he should go:”. In doing so, the child is directed to “remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth,”. So what are our educators presently doing? They are teaching our children that there is a tooth fairy that gives you a dollar for your lost tooth if you put it under your pillow at night. How about the teaching that there is a “Santa Claus” that flies through the air with reindeer, who comes down the chimney on Christmas Eve to deliver gifts that you wished for. I guess that those that live in apartment buildings have to have some other delivery fable taught. What about “magic Santa keys”?

    Yes, I am pointing out the insanity and bias of the practice of only teaching our students the theory of evolution, causing an imbalance in education. Creationism can hardly be taught, but the “Observations of Moses” can easily be taught our students, as a counter balance to the blind teaching of evolution (Atheism). There is no evidence for evolution, except in the closed mind of blind academics, administrators, and scientists. Evolution is a shallow conclusion of the fossil record (of death), and there is another, more probable, interpretation which is not being considered.

    What circumstantial evidence is used to come to the conclusion of “evolution”? The very same evidence that (the “Observations of Moses”) states that there was “death by escalation”, meaning that death to life forms first came to the simplest of creatures in the water (out of sight of land dwellers), before escalating to higher life forms that already lived on land. With this position, you get the exact same results in the geologic record, but without the phantom “transitional forms”. Original created life did not grow old and die, if left to it’s own. External forces caused their escalated death on at least three occasions, the most intense being in 245 Million BC. Just because death is discovered to have occurred initially in the water, does not mean that there was not also life on land at the same time.

    The atheist and evolutionist are motivated by the evil spirit of rebellion against God, whose goal is to destroy as much of mankind as possible. Take notice of their strategy, which is to only have the secular theories of science required and taught in public schools. But when it comes to teaching (the correct data) from the book of Genesis, they say “teach it in religion class, because it’s religion, and not science”. That is a bold face lie!! The very teaching of evolution is indoctrination into the religion of Atheism!! It is Satan’s mission to deny the reality of God and His Word, or at least redefine the scriptures, so that he can destroy all of mankind that he can. Evolution denies the existence of both the Creator, and of the Entity of Evil. Denial of the supernatural, which gave birth to the natural, is worst than foolishness.

    How can the Observations of Moses not be science? If Moses was given an overview (six visions) of the 4.6 billion year history of our Earth and universe, and saw the several different life forms as they lived in the ancient past, how is that not science? Is science the denial of reality, and the redefinition of history? Does it seek to destroy the minds of our students? Take notice that evolutionists don’t want any other theory taught in science class. The truth is not afraid of exposure, but a falsehood is fearful of the light. Also take note that evolutionists require much more evidence for “creation” than they do for their own beliefs. For example, ask for proof of the “primordial soup”.

    The seven-day creationists, such as those who support Creation Science and Biblical Reality, are motivated by the desire to rescue mankind, by trying to convey the truth of history, and the reality of our existence. However, Creation Science teaches foolish doctrines, by denying scientific reality, and along with Ruin & Restoration, they end up redefining God’s Word in order to make it “fit” their false teaching. For example, ask them “where did the water come from on the first day?”. Also, ask them “were the birds created one day before Adam, or on the same day after Adam?”. They can’t answer without redefinition of what is written, throwing “literal interpretation” out the window.

    Theistic evolution, Day/Age, and progressive creationists deny the truth of God’s Word, and also teach false doctrine. They deny the 24-hr day, saying that those days were long periods of time. They call God a liar, by denying that God created our Earth and universe all in six 24-hr days. Ask them “How long did God tell Joshua to march around Jericho?”. Were those also long periods of time? But at least they try to acknowledge the Eternal Spirit, His creation of our existence, and the truth of history.

    However, this article is named “The Deathtrap of Evolution”, and for good reason. Since there indeed is a Creator, there is indeed a coming judgment of all mankind, both modern and prehistoric. At the White Throne Judgment, approximately 1,020 years from now, every (remaining) human being, that has ever lived on this planet, whether they be Homo Sapiens, Cro-Magnon, Neanderthal, or original mankind, will stand trial and must give an account of their deeds while they lived on this Earth.

    What sort of “an account” will an atheist or evolutionist be able to give? Will the excuse “I didn’t see any evidence” be accepted, and the person will be allowed to live forever in peace? Or will the option to remain in ignorance, and denial of the truth of Genesis (as written in the book “Moses Didn’t Write About Creation!”), be charged against the person, and they be thrown into the waiting Lake of Fire to be tormented forever? What about those in public office that failed to provide a balanced education?

    Just imagine the laughter that many atheists and evolutionists now exhibit when the thought of a Creator is discussed. They want to believe, and teach to others, that all life on Earth, and the origin of the universe, all came into existence by random chance. Now imagine their shock when they find themselves standing in line, with tens of thousands of other humans, waiting to be judged by someone that they may have laughed at. Be assured that those that have done wrong against certain others, will be judged by that very same person, who will have the given authority to grant everlasting life or everlasting torment. This scenario would be discussed in another book, not yet written.

    So what is the final conclusion? It is that the fossil and geologic record of the ancient past gives solid proof of the truth of Genesis, namely the Observations of Moses, without the need of non-existent transitional forms which the theory of evolution relies on. God first created, and then restored life on Earth after each extinction event, in six different geological eras of mankind in the past. No modern human has both seen and written about the prehistoric past, except Moses, as revealed to him by God Himself.

    So if secular science wants to teach their conclusions from geologic data, so be it. But also teach the correct interpretation of early Genesis (not creation science), else the religion of Atheism is being indoctrinated into our students, by the state and local governments, contrary to the U.S. Constitution.

    Herman Cummings
    Ephraim7@aol.com
    PO Box 1745
    Fortson GA, 31808

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