National discussion on race takes conservative pundits in the wrong direction

It’s always the downside of any major discussion — someone ends up saying something that doesn’t make any sense. In light of Barack Obama’s speech last week on race in America, we’re apparently in the midst of a national conversation of sorts.

I get the sense this is one conversation in which Lou Dobbs deserves to be interrupted.

On the March 21 edition of CNN’s Lou Dobbs Tonight, host Lou Dobbs introduced his program by announcing: “Tonight, Senator [Barack] Obama wins the endorsement of the nation’s only Hispanic governor, Bill Richardson. Is Obama pandering to ethnocentric special interests again? We’ll have complete coverage.” The subsequent report by Capitol Hill reporter Jessica Yellin did not include a discussion of whether Obama is “pandering to ethnocentric special interests.”

Later, during a panel discussion with Washington Post New York bureau chief Keith Richburg, New York Daily News columnist Michael Goodwin, and Democratic superdelegate Robert Zimmerman, Dobbs asked: “Are each endorsement, are we going to hear, as white Americans, as black Americans, as Hispanic-Americans, I mean, is this going to be part of what is the group and identity party in this country? Are — is that not — is it just — I mean, just tell me, is there some sense that the Democratic Party is being overwhelmed by its own sense of group and identity politics here?”

I’ve read the transcript, and watched the clip, and I’m still don’t have the foggiest idea what Dobbs is talking about. Obama is “pandering to ethnocentric special interests” by accepting the endorsement of a governor? I don’t seem to recall Dobbs asking similar questions when Obama was endorsed by, say, Virginia Gov. (and white guy) Tim Kaine.

And why, exactly, would Dems be “overwhelmed by its own sense of group and identity politics”? Because Richardson is a Latino?

I’m afraid I’m a little lost.

For that matter, is it me, or have conservative media personalities been pushing the racial envelope a little more than usual lately? Pat Buchanan’s intolerance was unusually apparent this week in his syndicated column:

…America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known.

Wright ought to go down on his knees and thank God he is an American.

Second, no people anywhere has done more to lift up blacks than white Americans. Untold trillions have been spent since the ’60s on welfare, food stamps, rent supplements, Section 8 housing, Pell grants, student loans, legal services, Medicaid, Earned Income Tax Credits and poverty programs designed to bring the African-American community into the mainstream. […]

We hear the grievances. Where is the gratitude?

And Rush Limbaugh, predictably, is spewing his nonsense.

“I have a question: I wonder how white college students at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, are feeling these days.

“I wonder if they are nervous walking down the street, and they see a couple of black boys dressed in baggy clothes with their hats on backwards swaggering toward them. I wonder how they feel. I wonder if it makes them fear that they’re going to be shot in the face for their ATM cards and their PIN numbers. Obama, do you think there might be reasons here rather than this being inbred?”

A national conversation on race would be far more encouraging if conservative media personalities had intelligent things to say.

How do you get someone’s PIN from brains splattered on the sidewalk? That’s a new one on me.

Also… Richardson is latino? News to me.

Lastly… Do these guys really believe only white guys are allowed in the tent? Richardson isn’t, because he’s latino (like the majority in my state)?

  • Dobbs, to prove he’s the one pandering, said that 99% of the American people are not prejudiced.

  • And therein lies the risk in Obama’s strategy: he may have overestimated the maturity of the masses in seeking to have a rational discussion about racial issues. Sad, but predictable. It was still a damn fine speech.

  • I’m afraid I’m a little lost.

    I’m afraid Lou Dobbs is a little lost.

    His constant Latino and immigrant bashing is more than a little tiresome. His demographic seems to be white, working-class xenophobes.

  • This is nothing. I think the howler monkeys will really turn up the screeching as November approaches, and as it becomes apparent that their crazy old candidate isn’t going to inspire the wingnuts. Every time McCain says the words “global warming” he will lose 1,000 wingnut votes, and every time he says something like “We’re succeeding. I don’t care what anybody says”, he will inspire 10,000 new Obama/Dem voters.

    As the elections near, l think they’ll crank up the screeching desperation to the point where even the dumbest “centrist” will wonder which planet they’re on. It will be painful, but I think it will be almost fun to watch as they try to smear a guy who McCain’s own people can’t bring themselves to go after.

  • Let’s talk about hillary’s ball face lie about Bosnia, now that should be the HOT TOPIC on this blog..She’s a LIAR…

  • Definitions should aid your understanding.

    Ethnocentric = not white enough

    special interests = things only whites can take for granted like jobs, living wages, a healthcare plan, schools that teach well, a retirement plan.

    Bill Richardson = the only lobbyist in the nation working in behalf of obtaining ethnocentric special interests.

    Lou Dobbs = xenophobe with a penis smaller than his peanut-sized brain.

  • whew, thanks branqua. i was afraid our discourse was going to get too intellectual. you saved us on that one.

  • Mark Pencil @4 – We really need to get over the idea that Limbaugh or Buchanan represent “the masses”. They don’t. We’ll never win over the dittoheads, but most Americans are far more intelligent than we give them credit for and never listen to Limbaugh. Remember, Bush has been hugely unpopular for quite awhile and he had to steal both elections to win. Most people don’t support this crap.

    We just need to remember that politics is our hobby. We talk about this stuff because we enjoy it (or I do, anyway). But just because most people don’t follow political news doesn’t make them dumb. The masses are about to elect a Democrat to the Whitehouse as well as increasing our majority in Congress, and most likely by a respectable landslide. While the dittoheads and racists will eat up what Buchanan and Limbaugh said, most people who hear this stuff will be as offended as we are. Obama’s speech was not only brilliant, but the people who care to listen will be impressed and enlightened. And even those who don’t listen to it will be told how brilliant it was and like him even more.

  • @7: How is this related to Lou Dobbs?

    VIPs are often told things which may or may not be true about their surroundings, ‘for their protection’. So she probably was told by Secret Service or military security to keep her head down, they were worried about snipers. That doesn’t mean there was a sniper, or that one fired, or that they guys on the walls were even told this.

    So yeah, who cares? There was a real threat there, although apparently none materialized, so how does that make her a liar? It doesn’t.

    Nor does it have anything to do with this thread, either.

  • Pat Buchanan keeps topping himself when it comes to his douchebaggery.

    “I have a question: I wonder how white college students at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, are feeling these days.”

    “I wonder if they are nervous walking down the street, and they see a couple of black boys dressed in baggy clothes with their hats on backwards swaggering toward them.”

    Hey, Fatboy, since I live in Omaha, I’m more nervous about white boys with mental disorders having easy access to firearms with large-capacity magazines.

    Pieces of shit, both of them.

  • 11. Crissa said: @7: How is this related to Lou Dobbs?

    It wasn’t, he shouldn’t have posted it here and you didn’t need to respond. Come on people, we have 3-4 Clinton/Obama threads a day, please limit the campaign talk to them. We even had a Bosnia thread earlier, no need for that topic to contaminate the discussion of other areas of political interest.

  • Liam O’Dowd, who is one of the Clinton Campaigns fundraiser’s didn’t get the memo that only the right-wing were talking race in the wrong direction. Over at TPM they have him saying that “Reverend Wright is like David Duke.” Sheesh.

    I keep hoping that by keeping this Wright thing so much in the headlines now from all the screeching howler monkeys in the MSM that by Oct and Nov the general populace will be inured to it.

  • “I wonder if they are nervous walking down the street, and they see a couple of black boys dressed in baggy clothes with their hats on backwards swaggering toward them.”

    Jesus Christ, did these idiots even listen to his speech?

    I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother – a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street.

    … to wish away the resentments of white Americans, to label them as misguided or even racist, without recognizing they are grounded in legitimate concerns – this too widens the racial divide, and blocks the path to understanding.

    Obama explicitly said he understands that his own white grandmother gets nervous when she sees strange black men coming towards her on the street, but loves her all the same. He said these fears are not simple knee-jerk racism, but inspired by larger fears.

    So what’s the purpose of these new talking points? They’re echoing his very argument, and trying to use it against him? WTF?

    Do you have to be retarded to listen to these idiots? I know it helps, but is it a prerequisite?

  • TR@15:

    To paraphrase Upton Sinclair–

    It is very hard to get someone to understand something when their relevance depends on their not understanding it.

  • So yeah, who cares? There was a real threat there, although apparently none materialized, so how does that make her a liar? It doesn’t.

    That’s not the part that makes her a liar. The part that makes her a liar would be when she went into a detailed description of the C-17 she flew in specifically because it was heavily armored, of the pilot taking evasive maneuvers on the way down, of her being asked to move up into the cabin, and of being rushed off the landing with no greeting because it was so dangerous. She’s a liar because none of that stuff was true. She repeated this story at least twice.

    There are several videos out there on the web with her description of the events used a voiceover for footage of her landing, and a greeting ceremony where an 8 year old girl read a poem to both Hillary and her daughter. There’s simply no conceivable way that anyone who could potentially be President would misremember things to such an extent and in such detail. They’d be either a liar or delusional, and we have plenty of both in the White House right now.

  • I know that when I see a white guy walking down the street, I become fearful that he’s going to kill me, chop up my body, store it in his refrigerator, and eat it.

  • That’s what’s wrong with this politically correct yet deficient use of hyphenated Americans. It divides us far more than it unites us and along useless lines. All it does it keep us defining everyone as other than real Americans which are, I suppose, Caucasians.

    It’s very stupid and very bigoted. I for one am quite tired of it.

  • I’ve never understood the obsession with “race” we’re all human and that’s all that matters..

  • Letsee… The aircraft was heavily armored, and they would’ve flown an evasive pattern on the way down anyhow…

    Yeah, real liar there. She sooo lies about race. Because that’s relevant that the President never have stories that are embellished.

    Unless You Are a Republican, right?

  • Someone should be sure UNC students hear those comments. The campus is fairly liberal, and the newspaper is one of the better ones given the journalism school there.

  • I’m really getting scared for Obama. The crap being spewed out by Limbaugh, Buchanan, and the other screeching creatures of the right is simple racist angst that will morph into more overt nonsense over the next several months. I worry that some wingnut will feel enabled to commit violence; this is the kind of rhetoric that can inspire such action. It’s not that he shouldn’t run. We need more diligence than ever and we need to energetically go after these twerps.

  • From Buchanan you wouldn’t expect any better.Lou Dobbs, on the other hand, has clearly lost his natural mind. “Socio-ehtno-centric special interests….” He’s been riding that hobby-horse since the 2006 elections. It still sounds like a made-up cuss-word.

  • I’ve always been fascinated at how racists will go on and on about how blacks have been “given this” and “handed that” but never finish the thought. I.e.: that blacks are inherently unappreciative and inferior and that “we’ve” done all “we” can possibly do (as though, given his druthers, Pat Buchanan would ever have allowed welfare, food stamps, or Earned Income Tax Credits to see the light of day; but he sure seems to glory in it). Are they afraid that the next discussion will be on what to do with these ungrateful human scum? Why don’t they just go ahead an offer up “solutions” to the “Black Questions” that perplex them so?

  • “We hear the grievances. Where is the gratitude?”

    Sure, Pat, just like your wonderful president said that the Iraqi people owe the American people a debt of gratitude. Ingrates all.

  • A national conversation on race would be far more encouraging if conservative media personalities had intelligent things to say. “Liberals” have had the run of the media for 40 years, and they still can’t do any better than trot out Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Again and again and again and again.

    “Liberals” like to say they want to have a “national discussion” on race, but that’s it; they like to say it, not do it. They never did.

    Conservatives don’t believe any “national discussion” will do any good, and that is precisely because of the passions of all parties involved, regardless of their race.

    What I’ve seen is Democrats play identity politics, using a variation on a political technique designed to keep the minions at each others’ throats, while those doing the instigating remain in power.

  • Steve M, @39,

    Heck, no! My 84yr old husband wears a reversed baseball hat every time he works in the yard. Even though we live in south-western VA, he doesn’t want to become a redneck 🙂

    And, for the record… As a 58yr old, small, white, female, I’m a bit leery of *every* strange male, especially one met after dark. And I’ve been that way from the time I was 12 or so, in Poland, where everyone was WonderBread white. I always try to ward off the potential danger with a (slight) smile and, so far (knocking on wood), it’s worked. On whites, blacks, browns and pink ones with spots.

  • Lou Dobbs sees Richardson’s endorsement of Obama as the Hispanics and blacks ganging up on the whites. Holy crap, the whites will then be treated as like some kind of minority, you know, like how whites treat minorities. If Barack gets to be president and sidles up with Richardson’s crowd, before long their will be gated communities and country clubs that won’t want Lou Dobbs as a member. This just must not happen in his America, according to Lou.

  • I watched a brief segment where Dobbs was attacking Obama over the whole Wright thing. There were two comments that stood out for me:
    1) Lou Dobbs claimed that 99. whatever % of the country wasn’t racist, which I thought was ridiculous.
    2) A female contributor via video link asked why we couldn’t go back to being color blind, which made me think how tough it must me to be a satirist in America. This is basically Colbert’s stance on race.
    Can’t find the transcript, but if anyone can find the link it’d be great, it was either Sunday or Monday.

  • Yup, we Europeans and Americans really did do Africans a favor by kidnapping them from their homes, packing them into pestilential hell ships, sailing them across the ocean (killing many in the process), selling them into permanent bondage, forcing them to labor for us, raping them, beating them, murdering them, mutilating them, selling their spouses and children, and in general treating them like beasts. And then, after we liberated the ungrateful wretches, we did them a further huge favor by terrorizing them, lynching them, undermining their voting rights and civil rights, excluding them from our neighborhoods and schools, and systematically denying them economic opportunities for, oh, about a hundred years or so.

    But we introduced them to Christianity and now many of their descendents are in the mainstream of American life, so I suppose that makes it all peachy keen in the long run.

  • I’ll be the first to admit that some on the Left don’t want to have a discussion of race that disagrees with their position. For the most part, however, the objection to how conservatives want to discuss race is the “facts” they offer as “evidence” of their position. Take, for example, the assertion that blacks in America are all pissed off and hate America. Nothing could be further from the truth but right wingnuts expect this assertion to be accepted as a premise in the discussion! When the Left says “that’s stupid, ignorant and racist” they are then accused by the right wingnut of not wanting a real dialogue. It’s the conservatives who don’t want the discussion because they will have to account for their false premises.

  • My jaw dropped at first reading of Kristol’s “The last thing we need now is a heated national conversation about race” in the NYTimes. Hell, it’s only been two hundred years. They i realized that he was right; if we had such a conversation, it would be much harder to say stuff like “I wonder if they are nervous walking down the street, and they see a couple of black boys dressed in baggy clothes with their hats on backwards swaggering toward them” or “Wright ought to go down on his knees and thank God he is an American.” without being called an asshole.

  • “Yup, we Europeans and Americans really did do Africans a favor”
    Well, you have to look at it from the point of view of Buchanan, et al. Sure, white Americans committed unspeakable crimes on black Americans for hundreds of years. but then, because we are doing quite a bit less of that now, mostly, don’t we deserve an award for Most Improved? Hmm?

  • me again:

    “You burned down my house, killed my family, and enslaved me, and now you expect me to thank you? For what?”
    “Hey, I saved your life when I took you from the burning house.”

  • Through all the din, it would appear that the Democrats are prepared to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory once again.

  • (here is something I attempted to publish on Pat’s site as a rejoinder only to learn that the comments column had been shut down. I then published it on another blog site as an open missive):

    Ahhhh, but, Pat, putting aside what happened on the North American continent, what about the 12 million or so whose bones litter the ocean floor between here, the West Indies and Africa?

    And, should you be patting Uncle Sam on the shoulders for the entrepreneurial spirit many of its founders and settlers, and their descendants had in increasing their livestock/inventory? And, should the progeny of that inventory, no matter how altered [and, for sure, not always for the better], should look at their presence in the Republic as the greatest boon to ever be bestowed upon mankind?

    Oh, and one more thing, if you will. Riddle me this: you’ve claimed confederate officer forebearers, right? Any of those antecedants own considerable, ah, chattel? And, if they did how much do you reckon you and Bey owe to those forebearers’s assets for your present position in life?

  • Given the incredible vitriol coming from Fox News and the Lou Dobbs/Pat Buchanan/Rush Limbaughs of the world, Jeremiah Wright sounds calm and reasonable. Is there really so much race hatred in this country that these lunatics can convince folks to vote for McCain over Obama?

  • As I posted on Salon earlier, in reponse to Glenn Greenwald, he wrote: “…the GOP establishment for years has tied itself at the hip to hate-mongering extremists along the lines of John Hagee, Rod Parsley, Pat Roberston, Ann Coulter, and all sorts of various Instapunks, with no repercussions or accountability whatsoever…”

    The geneology of the rightwing’s noise machine’s tactics follows Nixon’s Southern Strategy; read Dan T. Cater’s “From George Wallace to Newt Gingrich: Race in the Conservative Counterrevolution, 1963-1994.” Rather than the sectional Southern Democrat party constantly shouting “nigger!” (and those people decamped and join the GOP after 1964), the Republican Party essentially borrowed a page from the textbook of George Wallace (see also Carter’s “The Politics of Rage: George Wallace, the Origins of the New Conservatism”).

    What did Obama say in his “more perfect union” speech about this?

    “Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition. Politicians routinely exploited fears of crime for their own electoral ends. Talk show hosts and conservative commentators built entire careers unmasking bogus claims of racism while dismissing legitimate discussions of racial injustice and inequality as mere political correctness or reverse racism.”

    Which is why Bill Kristol in this week’s NYT op-ed rejected Obama’s call for dialog. Kristol, as GG has noted, is the more “moderate” exponent of this tactic, which is why he rejected what Obama said.

    If Kristol were to engage it, he would have to deal with the historical fact that his party has had its hand in some of the seamiest, slimiest racial polarizing tactics in the last 30, 40 years. And the conservatives aren’t going to go there. Of course, this applies to Dobbs, Limbaugh, Coulter, et al.

  • SteveIL says,

    “Conservatives don’t believe any “national discussion” will do any good, and that is precisely because of the passions of all parties involved, regardless of their race.”

    Yeah, it doesn’t do any good to have discussions. They don’t “do any good.” It’s better to go about life remaining willfully ignorant and in fear of the “other” and keeping all that pent up anger and misunderstanding to oneself so that we can then later collectively snap and just kill each other. It’s the Bush doctrine: Talking is for sissies. Let’s blow stuff up!

    How enlightening.

  • Dobbs is a classic demigogue.This guy has only one major talking point and he panders to his core audience of disgrunteled,very conservative white people who are mostly in fear of losing their status.He would operate the same way if the subject was womens’ lib,or gun control.
    He overpowers his listeners with an excellent grasp of the language and an intimidating vocabulary.
    This guy is just the CNN version of Bill O’Rielly

  • It’s hard to believe that our country, or any country for that matter, is interested in giving audience to pundits who make comments as ridiculous as the ones Limbaugh, et al., make here. I’m really getting tired of being spun to death. These guys abhor political correctness, and then they go and attach a heavily ideological interpretation to a political act as simple as one governor endorsing a candidate. Are people really stupid enough to listen to this stuff?

  • Why is Dobbs still on TV? We do not live in Nazi Germany, after all. Shame on CNN that they allow a mistake of nature such as Dobbs to spew hatred every night. Thank God he will lose his battle. History will remember him as the modern day equivalent of Goebbels!

  • Dobbs called Condi Rice a cotton picker the other day. No, he is not racist at all. He hates everybody who isn’t a white-anglo-saxon-protestant. He should be deported!!!

  • MINORITY PRIVILEGE CHECKLIST

    In 1989 Peggy McIntosh, Associate Director of Wellesly College Center for Research on Women, described white privileges as “an invisible package of unearned assets, which I can count on cashing in each day, but about which I ws ‘meant’ to remain obilivous. White privilge is like invisible weightless knapsack of special provisions, mps, passports, code books, visas, clothes, tools, and black checks” (McIntosh 1989).

    Today, March 8, 2007, I Louis Calabro offer my “Minority Privilege List” for those interested in a refreshing and more accurate portrayal of daily life for the minorities among us. As a minority:

    —1. I know that if I walk behind Rev. Jessie Jackson on a dark street I can even scare the pants off of a black man, and have fun doing it.

    –2. I can turn on a television set and see mostly white criminals when in fact there are far more proportionately black criminals in the real world.

    –3. I can turn on television or open a newspaper and never be told that whites are more often the victims of hate crimes than blacks and Asians. ( San Francisco, 2005 &2006–and previous years)

    –4. I can visit a department store and know that because of the criminally violent history of my people the security force lets some things go by without challenge.

    –5. I can be assured that even if I cannot pass a test as high as a white person in an employment competition I may very well get the job.

    –6. I know that even though whites commit suicide more often than my group Government agencies will discuss the increase of suicides of my race.

    –7. I know that even though whites have a higher rate of tobacco use in California they will not be mentioned specifically as a target group in the laws covering the distribution of funds to fight its use, but my race will be.

    –8. I know that the Center for Disease Control will specifically initiate studies about my race even though the disease impacts whites more often. (Tobacco-Suicide)

    –9. I know that my governments, local, state and federal recognize civil rights groups that represent my race, but refuse to recognize any group that tries to represent the legitimate grievances of whites.

    –10 I know that I can probably break more traffic laws and the police will look the other way for fear of being accused of profiling blacks if they stop me.

    –11. I know that there are neighborhoods that I can walk in and whites risk their lives if they walk there.

    –12 I know that whites are never a credit to their race–they just do what they do as people and are raceless, unitl they do something wrong.

    –13. I can yell black power and be praised for my racial/ethnic pride, but whites are treated as supremacists if they yell white power. I like that.

    –14. I can be assure that even if I cannot pass a grade the school system will engage in “social promotion” and move me foward.

    –15. I know that even if I am a receipent of “social promotion” the courts will find a negative impact if enough of my race do not pass an employment competitive test, and give me a job anyway.

    –16. I know that the Ford Foundation and many American corporations will fund groups that protect my civil rights, but whites do no enjoy the same privilege.

    –17. Even though my race is only 12 percent of the population I can demand equal time in places of my choice with the majority.

    –18 I can attend college and know that there are courses that specifically honor and celebrate my race, while denigrating the white race.

    –19. I know that often I will be the only member of my race in a classroom and there is a good chance
    they will make me President.

    –20. I can enroll in a college class and know that there are professors, both black and white who will focus on European American whites flaws, while never revealing the flaws of my

    NEW Add

    Gangs and $$ spent on gangs while talking about Skinheads.

    #1–White studies programs in Colleges that bash whhites, while they have non-white studies in colleges that honor and celebrate non white achievements. (Put the name of the college that the Conference is being held and put this at #1 if the list.

    #2. A denial that race does not exist, except the white race, which must be eliminated.

    #3. A press that refuses to identify the race of suspects in crimes committed by non-whites.

    #4 Examine what is being said at the Whiteness Conference and give an opposite and complete thruth view,

    The truth is not the truth unless it is the thruth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

    Booker T. Washington essentially told blacks to make it on their own.

    If I want to live in a black neighbrohood, no one will call me a racist, and whites will not march in my streets telling me that I am a racist.

    Do we have one, one politician who speaks for European American white civil rights–or even acknowledges that we have civil rights grievances.

  • The wingnuts are the ones who believe in anthropogenic global warming.
    There’s absolutely no evidence that human activity has anything to do with
    the global levels of greenhouse gases, and plenty of science that indicates
    the Earth has experienced massive temperature shifts in its past when there
    were obviously no humans present at all.

    Global Warming is just a fad that politicians have latched on to so that we
    have a reason to vote for them. If they can’t think of any reason we need them
    then they invent a problem and–presto–we need the politicians to solve it for us.

  • Comments are closed.