North Dakota snow job: The not-so-independent spirit of the upper Midwest

March 11, 2006

Guest Post by Morbo

Recently someone sent me one of those ubiquitous e-mail messages parroting right-wing claptrap that morons think reflect “common sense” and straight talk. This one was more offensive than usual. It began:

North Dakota News: This text is from a county emergency manager out in the western part of North Dakota state after the recent snow storm.
WEATHER BULLETIN: Up here in the Northern Plains we just recovered from a Historic event — may I even say a “Weather Event” of “Biblical Proportions” — with a Historic blizzard of up to 44 inches of snow and winds to 90 MPH that broke trees in half, knocked down utility poles, stranded hundreds of motorists in lethal snow banks, closed ALL roads, isolated scores of communities and cut power to 10’s of thousands.
FYI: George Bush did not come….
FEMA did nothing….
No one howled for the government…
No one blamed the government
No one even uttered an expletive on TV…
Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton did not visit
Our Mayor’s did not blame Bush or anyone else
Our Governor did not blame Bush or anyone else either

It went on like this for some time and then concluded:

Even though a Category “5” blizzard of this scale has never fallen this early…we know it can happen and how to deal with it ourselves.
I hope this gets passed on.
Maybe, SOME people will get the message: The world does not owe you a living….

Ah, the moral superiority of the farm belt! First of all, I was not aware that this snowstorm killed 1,420 people. Somehow I missed that in the news. Oh, you mean it didn’t kill that many people? Then it’s not really a fair comparison, is it?

As it turns out, the entire message is based on a tissue of lies.

One of my favorite sites, Snopes.com, debunked it handily. A serious storm did indeed hit the Dakotas, Montana and Wyoming on Oct. 4, 2005. More then two feet of snow fell. Guess what happened next? The usual crew of GOVERNMENT agencies came to the rescue — led by the National Guard and the Highway Patrol. Furthermore, on Oct. 31, North Dakota Gov. John Hoeven wrote to Bush and demanded federal assistance from FEMA. Hoeven put in a “request that you declare a major disaster for the State of North Dakota as a result of a severe winter storm/snowfall, accompanied by record-breaking snowfall, rain and high winds, that occurred on October 4-6, 2005.”

Here’s the kicker: I’m assuming that whoever wrote this doggerel lives in North Dakota or at the very least believes that the North Dakota spirit encapsulates rugged independence and self-reliance. In fact, North Dakota would not exist were it not for the federal government. The state receives the highest percentage of federal farm subsidies among them all. Three out of four North Dakota farmers receive this aid. In an April 4, 2005, Washington Post story, one farmer, Owen Olson actually said, “If it wasn’t for the federal government here, nobody would be farming.”

I’m not knocking the subsidies — especially to family held farms. I’m just sick of people out there in the corn fields acting like anyone who accepts help from the federal government (even in light of a killer hurricane) is a weakling and or sponge on the rest of us when many of them are, as I said in a post many months ago, “welfare queens with tractors.”

Yes, I’m sure the people of North Dakota were glad when FEMA came to their rescue after that big snowstorm. After all, they need the roads to be clear so they can get out to their mailboxes and get their hands on their fat farm-subsidy checks.

March 11, 2006 at 10:00 am

Morbo,

I wish your post could get national distribution. It’s brilliant. I get those emails all the time (often from my own family, though most of them have given up writing, it seems).

I have to say that here in Nebraska, at least the farmers I know (including half my family) are usually pretty appreciative of fed support. There’s still quite a few who are like the kind you described, but we had a number of communities that lent support to Katrina victims. And I’m sure many went to go help North Dakota, too.
If anything, they’re really critical of how the big agribusiness companies get a huge chunk of the subsidies, and A LOT of them are VERY PISSED OFF at the Bush administration, as the fear-mongering they exploit is starting to get more and more tiresome.
So take what this guy said with a huge chunk of salt.

Go Big Red

The operative sentence is this piece of bull is “I hope this gets passed on.” That’s all the writer is really interested in. Conning a bunch of idiots into passing along lies.

Strong entry pointing out the hypocrisy of feeling entitled because you’re white and of northern European ancestry and feeling judgemental about minorities that want the same sorts of handouts farmers take for granted.

What I don’t get, though, is our love affair with so-called small farms. Forget them; they died long ago. My former(and now deceased) father in law farmed in southern Virginia for 80 years. He was a wonderful man, great farmer–mostly tobacco–who had seen the farm economy shift from small holders to corporations. He had little patience for the romanticized version of the family farm. Those days were gone long ago, he believed.

What killed them was the Federal Government. Not necessarily a bad thing, since we now grow vastly more food, but it isn’t the same. The average subsidy check mailed out by the DA goes not to a farm, but to an urban address. Either to corporations, or to retired farmers who live elsewhere while someone else works the land. The family farm is our form of the Potemkin Village. We reassure ourselves that they somehow embody values we are afraid we may have lost, and in trying to preserve the farm, we hope to preserve the past.

Growing up on a farm, according to my ex-wife was no picnic at all, though at the time the family mythology also followed the party line, telling her she was living in a paradise. It was no paradise, and having before and since known many people who grew up on farms, I feel able to generalize. Not to mention the unanswered question, if it’s so great why do so few children want to stay? Because it doesn’t pay? That may be a part of it, but we didn’t keep the buggywhip factories open after the triumph of the auto simply because of what wonderful places they might have been to work.

No, this did not come from ND. This is a classic piece of crap from some reactionary right wing propaganda shop. They manufacture crap like this out of news blurbs on a constant basis, then mass e-mail and post it so it looks like a grass roots thing. It keeps the atmosphere in the ‘ignorant masses’ clientel in the proper anti-minority, distrust the gubbmint frame of mind. Prob’ly redneck krishten barn a’gins, ifn I had ta gess.

Sometimes I think these emails originate with the same person who bakes the mythical Christmas fruit cake that just gets passed along. Like Ed, I’ve had these things forwarded to me by family members – in my case my family from Maine. These messages touch on a powerful part of American mythology, which is that Americans are and SHOULD BE self reliant. I do not criticize the notion that people should be responsible and look after themselves as much as possible in their day-to-day lives. But, those who read and forward to me these emails, which imply only certain “types” are benefiting from federal largesse, often overlook how they are benefitting from it, as well. It is almost comical. I probably should point the irony out to them, but I never have. Peace in my family relations has always trumped debunking these nuisance emails.

Who is suppressing the chorus of complaints and maledictions directed against the Bush Administration from Biloxi and the other severely Kartina-storm trashed coastal areas of Mississippi? Has everybody able to do so left the state, allowing it to revert to its pristine, natural habitat for furry woodland creatures and naked human hunter-gatherer bands leading lives free of urban cares and processed foods (such as ice-cream)? There is an anomaly here that is not being reported! Even LIBERALS should want to know ~~ “WHY?”

Tell y’all what… Next time we get a nasty storm here in the much-maligned “farm belt,” and my power goes out, I shall refrain from starting my generator. Instead, I shall wait until after the situation is resolved, and then loudly demand that someone else pay for the contents of my refrigerator, freezer, and keg tapper. And for my pain and suffering during withdrawal from The Media.

Possibly I shall also loot my neighbors. Break some windows, burn down the local liquor store. That sounds like a capital idea.

Today’s music is bluegrass (from an SACD player through an antique Marantz preamp, into a modded Hafler amplifier, and the onto a pair of Magneplanar speakers – capitalism is GOOD) – possibly it is twisting my synapses…

And remember – friends don’t let friends loot Bose systems…

Now, onto the “news story” which has been documented… I think that the whole idea of it was to take a sarcastic (today’s left seems to have largely lost any sense of humor or irony that it may have ever had…) look at the differences between populations… Where I grew up, if you had a nasty storm, you’d have truckloads of good ol’ boys with chainsaws out. Clear roads before they were even dry. Them good ol’ boys just LIVE for that sorta thing… You run off the road in the snow, don’t worry – some fellow will drive by in a 4×4 that he’s just itchin’ to use – “Gee, that new German car shore do look funny in that snowbank! Could you use a hand?”

We haven’t heard squat about the rest of the gulf coast. They’re too busy either rebuilding or getting along with their lives. We’re hearing from the folks from New Orleans tho – They’re wondering why nobody’s doing anything… clue bat time – it’s because you’ve been sittin’ in a Houston motel room drinkin’ forties instead of back home working at cleaning things up.

Bogieville is what’s wrong with America under BUSH

Bogieville –

What utter nonsense. New Orleans ex-residents can’t get building permissions until the government has rebuilt the levees and utilites. Many have gone back to gut their houses, but can’t proceed until the insurance money is released. Whole neighborhoods (1,000’s of buildings) are still waiting to be cleared because there is nothing but rubble.

We’re not talking about a handful of people here. I realise some people who have never lived in a city can’t grasp the magnitude of damage, but it’s a huge mess. Kind of like every house in North Dakota being blown away.

I got that piece of trash a while back from a friend who should know better. It is absolutely amazing that anyone with an IQ above 50 would fall for that crap. First clue, it’s author is anonymous. Second clue, no exact time of event. Third clue, participants not named. Geez, cut me some slack………

Wards of the Government are but one step above serfdom. When the money runs out and the demand for serfs is still nil, what are these folks going to do? Today they are human beings and sinking. When their “Color Privilege” is withdrawn, as it must be when the money runs out, what will be their fate? They will offer their bodies, when hunger and withdrawal demand it, but there will be few takers. The whiners and complainers and the invokers of rage against the “SYSTEM” will be ignored by their busy fellow citizens and disposed of on “reservations” when their inportunings become excessively inconvenient or inconveniently urgent. Then it may occur to a few of them that they are the cheated ones, seduced by their governments’ alms into beggary, and deprived by the National Education Association Cartel of the mental resources required to climb out of that awful trap.

That is their way of saying that they (the farm boys, north dakotans, whoever) are tired of hearing about poor niggers.

I think they really want to say that they wish all them niggers should just shut up and drown with dignity.

I’m what’s wrong?

Being self-sufficient is wrong?

Okay. Send me all your money. I’ll take paypal.

I’m waiting…

Oh,and I used to live at roughly the geographical center of the St. Louis metro area… Granted, this is “flyover country,” and obviously not as enlightened as Boston, New York, or Washington DC, but there still was one heck of a lot of people in a rather small space. I fear that some of you may be seriously guilty of stereotyping – Just because someone does not dwell in a “coastal” environment does not mean that they’re some sort of backwoods rube.

One of the primary critics of government assistance for victims of Katrina was Rep. Hostettler of Indiana. Two months after Katrina, a tornado left a path of destruction in Evansville, the largest city in Hostettler’s district. I don’t recall Hostettler insisting that the Feds stay out of his state.

I must most strongly protest the use of an invidious racial epithet by the Poster calling himself “THOR likes Pizza”. Such language has no place in a civil discussion of the issues affecting Citizens of these United States. I urge this Citizen to rethink hi methods of civil argument. Perhaps he might want to re-read Pericles on Citizenship.

Bogieville,

The City of St. Louis and nearby suburbs are the bluest of blue in a largely “red” state. The Illinois side of the metro are is largely Democratic. Spare us the bullshit about flyover country and coastal elites. You hold the opinions of a backwoods rube, you get called a backwoods rube.

“Just because someone does not dwell in a “coastal” environment does not mean that they’re some sort of backwoods rube.”

Perhaps not. But, when one makes a sweeping generalization about the victims of Katrina (Gulf Coast Vs. NOLA) such as, “We’re hearing from the folks from New Orleans tho – They’re wondering why nobody’s doing anything… clue bat time – it’s because you’ve been sittin’ in a Houston motel room drinkin’ forties instead of back home working at cleaning things up,” it tends to bury the needle on the bigot-o-meter. Hopefully, the day will never come when you find yourself hung by those boot straps of which you’re so proud.

Subject for Class Discussion:

Why is the Personal invariably the Political (et vice versa) with most of the Liberal Posters on this site?

They would all do well to revisit their student communion with Pericles.

I don’t know, waumpuscat. Say, why don’t you review any of your comments about the Clintons and Janet Reno, and get back to us on how the personal is invariably the political (et vice versa).

Bogieville

Driving Magneplanar speakers through old electronics is almost offensive!! I can only assume you are a true environmentalist to make a sacrifice this great! I salute you.

Why would anyone of taste desire to discuss former Attorney General Janet Reno? The fact that this Officer of these United States ordered the ONLY POGROM against an heretical religious sect to be executed by her direct subordinates and assisted by other government employees has conveniently been forgotten by the LIBERAL NEWS Cartel, and she walks free, armored by the ongoing conspiracy of silence and averted awareness. As all the World knows, former Attorney General Reno was the then First Lady’s creature. There was an awful crime done at the Branch Davidian Compound. Women and children were gassed and burnt to death. In the recent history of the Balkans, such enormities were deemed “War Crimes”. What do we call that Texas Horror? “FORGOTTEN!” But there is no statute of limitations on murder. And the Doctrine of Administrative Regularity cannot be said to apply.

There: This is a short discussion of Senator Clinton and her creature.

excellent waumpuscat,

Historically accurate with no reference to the “personal”.

I am sure those encumbered with a public education will marvel and learn.

I sincerely appreciate any encouragement, whether derived from a desire for enlightenment concerning past government actions or a fellow Poster’s honest expression of agreement with a matter of opinion expressed by me. The first step in our civil discourse is agreement on the meaning of certain terms and the well founded words of our glorious English Language. Eric Blair had some cogent thoughts on these matters, writing under the Nom de Plume, George Orwell. All of us would do well to learn from him. Following his example is infinitely more difficult. Such pellucid prose is rarely encountered these days.

So suggesting that someone is at fault because they’re sitting around waiting for government assistance is racist?

I don’t give a damn what “color” someone is – if they’re sitting on their fourth point of contact wondering what’s going on, they are, by definition, not going anywhere.

Now, I’m wondering – are you suggesting that residents of the other areas of the gulf coast (New Orleans is but a part of it…) might be more motivated? WHY are you suggesting that? I think you have preconceived notions.

Now, not to get your panties in a wad or anything, but the City of St. Louis (which is actually a rather small entity) banned forties about 15 years ago or so… It seemed that the broken glass on the city streets was becoming a little too much to bear – both in north city and in south city… The resulting conversion by Anheuser-Bush resulted in Really Big Aluminum Cans, which are quite prized by urban outdoorsmen. The city looks a LOT better now…

And back in ’96, I partook in my fair share of those big ol’ boys, while helping an acquaintance “gentrify” a 3-story in a then dodgy neighborhood… I could communicate with all the folks he had working for him, etc. It’s amazing what kinda motivation you can get going with a regular Friday afternoon happy hour (if I see you at work Monday to Friday, the tap opens at 4:30… if not, well, you’ve got your check…). Just so long as the neighbors don’t call the po-po…

Do NOT stereotype.

Bogie, it’s old design, but hey – it’s all clean… And I do have to say that I’m fairly impressed by the Waumpuscat’s transmission line speakers…Those things will get DOWN with the fat lady, and it’s a darn good thing that most of his neighbors are deaf… Altho they may be wondering about things at the local seismic research unit…

My upstairs system does rock – I’ve got each maggie paired with a 15″ sealed low-q sub – I can make the picture frames boogie on the walls… My next move will probably be to build a tube preamp (I’m thinking Bottlehead Foreplay). The Hafler amp (slightly modded, with new caps) puts out 135 wpc into 8 ohms with 0.0015 distortion… More watts into the 4 ohm maggie loads… May consider a bigger amp, but I _really_ like this one. Next best thing to nothing in the way… Didn’t the Waumpus tell you that I know how to solder? The Bunker, which is all Infinity except for four home-built (remember that glue room?) 15″ vented subs, with about 4,000 watts, mostly in a stack comprised of a pair of Hafler DH-500s, and several DH-225s and P230s (headroom is good…), makes Sib’s basement look (and sound) sorta, well… lacking (Sorry, Sib, but hey… You’ve got the mansion, but I’ve got The Bunker – the neighbor kids really dug Harry Potter’s new one last night, and the kids’ parents sorta liked the kegerator – when they weren’t trying to crawl over the backs of the furniture to get away from the bad guys…)- and I’m getting ready to build some higher efficiency/higher power handling speaks – should give me another 8db on the top end…. Thus far I’ve got about $100 invested in the drivers, and will likely drop another $150 on speakers, $300 on electronic control, and go through 4-5 sheets of 3/4″ MDF… Making sawdust is strangely calming. The fun part is that I should be able to unload my existing speakers for more than I paid for ’em!

Interesting thing is that I started on all this about 8-9 years ago, when I started scoring stuff Real Cheap from goodwill/ebay, etc… Nothin’ quite like picking up $2,000 worth of electronics for $250… Bedroom’s got a rebuilt Marantz 2230 with large Infinity studio monitors… Total investment around $150, after I worked up the receiver and had a local shop refoam the woofs (woulda done ’em myself, but they’re hard to replace, so I figured that it’d be better for someone who actually knew what he was doing…).

That Bogieville is some shopper. The cheaper the better, just like his opinions.

Bogieville: Cheap ain’t the only criteria about wether something is good or not. If it was, we would have already won the war because we were cheap on troop armour, bought the CHEAP Humvees, instead of the ones with more body armour, and we used reserves to fight the battles that fulltime soldiers should have been fighting.

If CHEAP is as great as you brag, then why is Bush so baddd?

Dear waumpuscat,

I apologize for offending you with my choice of words.

Allow me to rephrase:

That is their way of saying that they (the farm boys, north dakotans, whoever) are tired of hearing about poor black folk.

I think they really want to say that they wish all them black folk should just shut up and drown with dignity.

I am sure those encumbered with a public education will marvel and learn.

Wait, now I’m confused. Are we supposed to be the out-of-touch elite, or are you?

Lefty, let me guess… You probably have a nice expensive Bose system, right? Good thing that you only hear what you want to hear… It sounds like you’re a _good consumer_.

Or, is your “cheap is bad” an invention of one of your economics professors? I was taught that if you can purchase quality cheaply, that was a good thing… I’m a HORRIBLE “consumer.” But I’m a good customer to have. When you buy the best, you only have to cry once… (mmm… good coffee… from a Krups coffeemaker that I picked up, new in box, for $20 – it sells for $90ish at the home stores. The coffee is my Hawaiian special weekend stuff, ground fresh about 15 seconds before I flipped da switch – or maybe I really should have used my Chemex – ah, if that is my only regret of the day…).

Think of the definitions of the two words, and think of how the term “consumer” has been foisted upon us by our media. My purpose in life is not to consume.

On Hummers and armor… If you’re standing next to, or driving next to, a 500 pound bomb when it goes off, it doesn’t really matter if you’re in a Yugo (anyone else remember those things?) or a tank. It _will_ ruin your whole day. If you put the “good” body armor on soldiers, then they can’t move fast. Dodging is a far better defense than waddling while you’re taking rounds to a chest plate. Or maybe your face… Oops…

Boy, it’s simply amazing that we won WWII with nothing but Jeeps and steel pots… (I was in when they issued the “new” Kevlar helmets to replace the steel pots – biggest grip was that all they were were helmets… You couldn’t dig with ’em, you couldn’t use ’em to heat stuff, etc., etc…)

Also, I would appreciate it if you nice people on the coasts or in urban areas would kindly refrain from stereotyping people who choose to not live in the hive worlds that you inhabit – I did it for 20 years, and while it does have its benefits, it has just as many down sides.

Just because you remember “everyone bein’ a bubba” from when you were whackin’ off while watching Daisy Duke bend over doesn’t mean that everyone who lives outside the urban jungles aspires to live in a trailer park surrounded by confederate emblems… Next time you leave the canyons in search of the manicured parkland that you think is “nature,” try interacting with the people in some fashion other than demanding service.

How many African-American people are your friends? Or do you just know a few tokens who you see at the proper parties? I watched the Super Bowl with a neighbor… I swilled the White Man’s brew (okay, well, it was Michelob Ultra – I’m on a diet again… No Pabst for me…), and he and his ol’ lady sipped some good cognac… Sometimes I think he does that just to be “ghetto” and pimp on folks… Neither beverage precluded the occasional “touchdown dance.” Good thing I’ve got a big basement. I really miss a lot of the guys from college and the Army, but hey, I’m the one who moved after college, etc., and it’s just so darn hard to keep in touch. Had one bud from Detroit,and I keep wondering how he’s doing… Probably a millionaire by now…

Oh, and Sunday morning is Brubeck, then maybe some Bela Fleck – with the 15″ subs, the Cosmic Hippo will really knock the dust off the knicknacks… Off to brunch in a few minutes, so that I can eat a fluffy omelet, read the real estate section, and overtip my favorite waitress.

North Dakota has a population density of what? Mr Stereo Equipment connoiseur? How many people per square mile? Name the unit. How many people?
How many dead bodies are still sitting in houses destroyed by North Dakota’s blizzard? Google didn’t find any, so maybe there is a farmgoogle or vastemptypostglacialwasteland.com that has those figures and I’m just not seeing it. How many people spent weeks in an empty enclosed sports stadium there in Fargo? None?
How many people were shot at by sheriffs from neighboring towns to prevent them from evacuating across their territory? Right.

So you are bogieville the stereo racist. Why run from what you believe to be true? The biggest problem is the dishonesty of racists who deny they just hate black people because they are different. Who hate poor people for being poor. Who hate victims because people in need make you ashamed of your selfish unwillingness to help others in need, knowing you would ask for help if the situation was reversed.

BOGIEVILLE

“Boy, it’s simply amazing that we won WWII with nothing but Jeeps and steel pots”.

What’s really amazing is that the U.S. was in WWII from 12/41 thru 8/45, a total of 3.5 years before VJ day. We are now approaching 3 years participating in this imperial farce in a country the size of California.

The most powerful nation on earth( or so we are told) can’t even control an area the size of California in todays world.

If we are so great. so moral, so good(quoting our Pres). why are we having so much trouble with “evil”? We have strength and morality on our side so it MUST be a LACK of LEADERSHIP from the pathetic, divder who is leading our forces.

Bush couldn’t lead a baseball team. He is the “Brownie” of all the presidents we have had.

Cum stains on blue dress: impeachment proceedings and
NO deaths.

Lying about reasons for going to IRAQ: 2200+ deaths with no successful end in sight and the IDIOT still in the WH

The reason for the previous paragraphs is that if we weren’t wasting our resources in Iraq, many of the people( or do you call them freeloaders) stranded in other cities from Katrina would be able to move back because:
A: the national guard would have been in Loisiana to help the states in times of emergency instead of getting picked off in Iraq.B: All the equipment that the President had shipped to Iraq could have been used in its originally intended area of use, not 8,000 miles away. C: all the money wasted in Iraq could have been used to help our own citizens in a national time of need.

Bogieville: Is a country defined as a great country by it’s military strength or by the way it treats it’s citizens? Either way, we are nowhere near as great as we used to be and the reason is sitting in the WH

So if Billary had been in the White House, the hurricane would have gone elsewhere?

Let’s see… the folks in New Orleans KNEW they were living below sea level. They KNEW that a hurricane was coming sooner or later.

Pardon me, but I went to private schools… I am intelligent enough to avoid living in areas prone to flooding.

Not really sure about the population of North Dakota – I suppose I could look it up, but hey… I’m sure that there are likely several different figures available from different sources, so any answer I provide will be decried as being inaccurate. Sigh… I will agree that the population isn’t very condensed. Are you implying that that is a bad thing? Should we maybe forcibly herd the entire population into a hive in the center of the state, and give them a check on the first of every month? Are North Dakotans _bad_ people because they are self-reliant?

In the case of New Orleans, people helped destroy their own neighborhoods by looting – are those business owners going to want to return? I wouldn’t. Perhaps if the hurricane had hit a few days later, after more people had their checks, more people would have evacuated. We’ll never know.

Some of you folks also are VERY prone to spewing hate – name calling, etc… I am not a racist. If New Orleans has been comprised of a buncha trailer-dwelling poor white trash, I would have the same opinions. Can you say the same about yourself?

I love the Discovery channel – there’s a program on right now that has something to do with hurricanes (I’m cleaning out my trailer in preparation for the camping season, so wasn’t really watching it…), and it seems that Wal-Mart’s top seller in areas “preparing” for hurricanes is…

Beer.

Of course, it’s probably the same in North Dakota as people “prepare” for snowstores (I actually prefer a good Kentucky bourbon for my “snow” beverage…), but those are people who are ready to wait out a snow storm, snug in their houses, as opposed to people who are sitting around waiting for their welfare checks, hoping that their houses don’t end up under 10′ of water…

Let’s take a look…

Area A: It’s gonna get really cold, windy and snowy for a while. Stay inside, and throw another log on the fire. Get reacquanted with your ol’ lady. Dig out in a couple of days.

Area B: It’s gonna get really windy and wet. _REALLY_ windy and wet. Stay inside, wait for it to blow over, and then steal anything you can until you realize that your ankles are starting to get a little damp. Go to the local stadium, shit in the hallways, and rape someone. Sit in a motel room, and complain that nobody is doing anything for you. Sit some more.

If Biary was in the WH during Katrina: we would have had the national guard at home, where they belong. FIMA would have been headed by a profesional, instead of a crony. Bilary wouldn’t have continued on his vacation, like some lazy idiot did.

Those people in New Orleans would have a federal response that was adequate and professional. Some things( like a cat 5 hurricane) are too big for just the state and local governments, The Federal govt. failed these people and allows sickies like you to spew your racist rhetoric.

What FIMA failures were there during the Clinton years? I do not know the answer, but I know you will enlighten me when you find them.

Finally: Bogieville sure talks about alcohol a lot. This important part of your life is probably why you can’t see what others on this board see: YOU IS ONE FLAMING RACIST. Your last paragraph says all anyone needs to know about you, except which hole you came from.

Are you saying that the people in New Orleans did NOT steal from their neighbors? That they didn’t trash the Superdome? That they were not committing violent crimes upon each other?

The mayor of New Orleans and the governor of Louisiana were so busy trying to keep up appearances (“Everything’s fine here, now just move on, and make sure you vote for me again…”) that they never even requested assistance. Then they throw press conferences. Of course, maybe a few folks were a little busy trying to disappear any paper trail pertaining to all the cash that had been _supposed_ to be spent to beef up levees, etc., but hey, we’ll never know…

And it isn’t just the government that’s screwed up – A friend of mine called the Red Cross, wondering if there’s anything he could do. He’s a doctor, and also a pilot. They told him to make a donation. At the time, nobody could get in or out, and medical care was virtually nonexistant. He’s volunteering his time, expertise and equipment, and they just want money. Typical.

I’m really quite puzzled, and also rather offended. You are very quick to whip out accusations of racism. I think it’s just another part of your culture of victimhood. If you can’t feel pitiful about being a victim, you can feel pitiful about _possibly_ being descended from _possible_ oppressors… And you _desperately_ want to share your pain. Sheesh.

Maybe I should talk about food instead… Gonna BBQ a steak tonight.

Otto
Rest assured, I will never accuse any of you of being elite. I was simply pointing out your condition. You can rise above it!

Bogieville the environmentalist:
Are you running stereo or have you put together a Home Theater? If so what are you using for a monitor?

” A Loveland Republican took to the floor of the Colorado House of Representatives on Friday to apologize for having forwarded an e-mail about black victims of Hurricane Katrina that he now understands was “offensive,” “inappropriate” and “degrading.”

The e-mail contained an essay by a conservative black minister, the Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, who wrote: “It was primarily immoral, welfare-pampered blacks that stayed behind and waited for the government to bail them out” during Katrina’s aftermath.

“If you’re black and a hurricane is about to destroy your city, you’ll probably wait for the government to save you,” he wrote. Peterson also wrote that most blacks in New Orleans “were too lazy, immoral and trifling to do anything productive for themselves.”
(snip/…)”

This e-mail is refernced here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102×2160078

Your last paragraph in post 33 sounds a lot like this to me,

Now, I don’t normally hang around with religious folks all that much (something about having a healthy distrust of superstition-based belief systems), but I think I’d like to meet that minister.

Do you think that the people in question did anything differently? What I saw was a buncha folks who went out and stole everything that wasn’t securely nailed down, and then proceeded to even further prey upon each other.

Last I looked, there were black people living at other areas along the gulf coast… Haven’t been seeing them on the news. They’re too darn busy getting things back together to do press opps at motels. Are you saying that the black people who lived in New Orleans were different? Maybe somehow less able to recover? How could that be so? Could it maybe be that generations of sucking at the government teat has weakened surivival instinct?

For the record, I’m not thrilled about freeloaders. Of any color/race/creed/gender/species/planetary origin (gee, but it’s getting harder to be nonbiased lately…). Next thing you know, sheer laziness is gonna be declared a government disability, and employers will be forced to hire folks to sit on the front stoop and drink beer all day.

That sort of situation was in the aftermath of a natural disaster, but hey, it wouldn’t take much to have it just “happen.” Look at south central LA following the trial of the assholes who whupped up on Rodney King – I think he deserved part of what he got, but nowhere near all of it, but I think that those cops should have been so far behind bars that it’d take a trained ferret to get notes to/from them…

What would happen if New York or Los Angeles was cut off? What if truckers went on strike? You’ve got a three day supply of food. How long do you think it’d be before you’d have riots? Or are the coasties too “noble?”

Bogie, upstairs is stereo, and primarily music, and the TV is just sorta there – 32″ CRT that I’ve had for about 3 years – I think it’s a GE, but hey, it’s the one that had the best picture in the store.

Downstairs, I’ve got a Denon that I’m using as a preamp, feeding a stack of Hafler amplifiers, which make a half-dozen Infinity speakers take notice. I’ve only run one of the amps (the center) into shutdown once, with the remastering of the Who’s Isle of Wight show… (the two fronts and center are bridged for 300 watts each, and the sides and back are 255 wpc). The subs are under the 92″ 16×9 da-lite screen. They’ve got 2400 watts, but don’t use it all.

I posted this on the wrong thread.

The Tax Foundation compiles data each year on the amount of money each state pays per capita to the federal government and data on the amount of money each state receives from the federal government per capita. In a January 2004 NYTimes Op-Ed piece Daniel H. Pink a former Gore speech writer noted that,

78 percent of Mr. Bush’s electoral votes came from Taker states.

76 percent of Mr. Gore’s electoral votes came from Giver states.

Of the 33 Taker states, Mr. Bush carried 25.

Of the 16 Giver states, Mr. Gore carried 12.

This speaks volumes about the notion that Bush supporters are self-sufficient while those who vote Democratic are on the government dole. Clearly, the facts do not support this notion.

Let’s take a look at year 2005 and how the two states in center of this debate stacked up. North Dakota received $3259 per capita more in federal funds than it sent to Washington. Louisiana didn’t make out quite as well; it received $2554 per capita more in federal funds than it sent to Washington. While both were taker states see North Dakota beat out Louisiana when it comes to the flow of federal monies. This hardly puts them in a postition to critisize.

How about John Ashcroft’s home state of Missouri? It too was a federal beneficiary to the tune of $1523 per capita. For reference California and New York each sent more to Washington than they got back. The deficits were $1436 per capita and $677 per capita, respectively.

The data can be found at the Tax Foundation website in both pdf and XLS formats. I know Ed Stephens like to play with such numbers so I’m sure he will appreciate the XLS format.

What is that money earmarked for? I’ll guess that the lower-population ND got more $$/head than LA because of interstate road construction, etc… Now, if you were looking at the total/square mile, I’ll bet that LA got a lot more…

And the clowns in LA sure didn’t spend it too well, did they? I wonder what Nagin did with his part of the funds for levees?

And as far as Misery is concerned, there’s democrats here too… STL City generally has a whole bunch of dead ones vote in most elections. The way it usually works is that they see how the races are looking for the state as a whole, then they figure out how many votes they need to “dig up” in the city…

I dunno Bogieville – Some about that last paragraph doesn’t ring true. Both of our U.S. Senators are Republican, 5 out of 8 U.S Congressmen have an R by their name, the Governor is Republican and both of the state houses of Congress have a Republican majority. Seems to me that if the Democrats were rigging the elections then they would hold a lot more seats.

But hey, what do I know. I only live here and take the time to look up the information before I open my mouth.

The funds for the levees that Bush has decreased every year he has been in office.

This was a manmade disaster put into motion by a natural disaster. If the levees had held, NOLA would still be a city with most damage fixed by now.
I think approximately 1200+ people died during Katrina. About 100+ were killed outside of NOLA. If you extrapalate deaths caused by Katrina in the rest of its path of destruction, there is no way that the storm could have killed those 1100+ people in NOLA. The majority of the deaths were a failure of the federal government to have proper levees and to adequately maintain the levees . If the feds had done it’s job, there wouldn’t be all those freeloaders you keep commenting about.

Well, we used to have a whole lot more democrats? Remember the corpse, and his completely unqualfied sympathy vote spouse? Remember all the furor over the concealed weapons stuff in the past 10 years? Following the passage of the law, the _worst_ that anyone can say is that nothing happened. And STL City is wondering why, when they finally quit their end-run around the process, and started issuing permits, nobody is applying? They all took their money out of state.

Misery also had Tricky Dicky… The current situation came into place largely because people had grown tired of the status quo.

The freeloaders were already there, sitting on their fourth point of contact, waiting for their monthly checks. I mean, _cops_ were looting. On video tape. Sheesh. The culture in the area was one of “give me what I deserve” without ever questioning the concept of “deserving.” An interesting psychological thing about many people who commit robbery is that they’ll talk themselves into it….

“I really like that pair of basketball shoes.”

“I should have those basketball shoes. They are rightfully mine.”

“That guy is wearing _my_ basketball shoes.”

“Hey, gimme my basketball shoes, or I’ll kill you!”

Doesn’t have to be shoes – can be anything. A car, a woman, an ice cream cone… The dole-dwellers of New Orleans had already gone past the first steps, and they _expect_ handouts. It’s a small step to demanding…

When you are around someone, and they’re working themselves up like this, get the heck outta there.

The federal government had poured millions of dollars into the city, allegedly for levee improvement, over a lot longer than Bush has been president – you’d think that they’d have been fixed up by now… Maybe it was the dollars who _we_ gave them under Clinton that are at fault? Oh, weeping and gnashing of teeth!

I’m a little late on this one, but it’s interesting to note that it was a North Dakota city (Grand Forks) that was the largest recipient of a well-managed FEMA response ever. In 1997, horrific floods and fires destroyed the city, and a conpetent, efficient, and capable FEMA – under a Democratic administration – saved their citizens.

Wow. Welfare junkies really get pissy when you point it out. I’m not in ND and so (like most of those posting here) have no first hand account like the person being “debunked” here. I do know that the reason things like this get such mass circulation is disgust over the welfare system. No matter how ND handled things, New Orleans was a pathetic shout of what a worthless lot the welfare system creates. That part is true enough.

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