NRO’s John Derbyshire’s imaginary heroism

You’ve got to be kidding me.

As NRO’s designated chickenhawk, let me be the one to ask: Where was the spirit of self-defense here? Setting aside the ludicrous campus ban on licensed conceals, why didn’t anyone rush the guy? It’s not like this was Rambo, hosing the place down with automatic weapons. He had two handguns for goodness’ sake — one of them reportedly a .22.

At the very least, count the shots and jump him reloading or changing hands. Better yet, just jump him. Handguns aren’t very accurate, even at close range. I shoot mine all the time at the range, and I still can’t hit squat. I doubt this guy was any better than I am. And even if hit, a .22 needs to find something important to do real damage — your chances aren’t bad.

Yes, yes, I know it’s easy to say these things: but didn’t the heroes of Flight 93 teach us anything? As the cliche goes — and like most cliches. It’s true — none of us knows what he’d do in a dire situation like that. I hope, however, that if I thought I was going to die anyway, I’d at least take a run at the guy.

One of the words I’ve seen used quite a bit since yesterday morning is “unimaginable.” As in, the shootings at Virginia Tech were an “unimaginable nightmare.” As the madman picked his targets, there was “unimaginable horror.” When students were literally jumping from classroom windows, they were faced with an “unimaginable scenario.”

But not for National Review’s John Derbyshire. For him, it’s all perfectly imaginable. Not only that, he feels justified in offering a critique of the victims’ decision making in the midst of the crisis.

And not only that, he seems wholly unimpressed that these young people and their professors, with their lives on the line, didn’t meet his expectations.

Ana Marie Cox mocked Derbyshire for “blaming the victims … because they’re total wusses.”

If I had to choose a favorite insane statement here — like, say, if someone was holding a gun to my head — I think it’d be the idea that, “At the very least, count the shots and jump him reloading or changing hands. Better yet, just jump him.” Or, best yet: you could always try the ol’, “Shoe’s untied!” bit. Works with my theoretical mass shooting murderers all the time.

That’s not bad, but my favorite insane statement was Derbyshire’s argument that “even if hit, a .22 needs to find something important to do real damage — your chances aren’t bad.”

Let’s make this perfectly clear. Students are sitting in their classroom. They hear gun shots and screaming, and the noises are getting closer. They quickly realize that their lives are in immediate danger. At this very terrorizing moment, Derbyshire thinks that these students should think to themselves, “Hey, I think I know the caliber of that firearm! Not only that, I also think that a .22 would only do minor damage to me after it’s fired into my body at close range! Millions of years of well-honed instincts are telling me to run like hell, but instead I’m inclined to run towards the well-armed madman!”

Derbyshire’s thoughts are a special kind of stupid, combing a unique blend of blame-the-victim arrogance, Monday-morning quarterbacking, unearned machismo, and a breathtaking degree of callousness.

I suppose it’s possible we’ll find a dumber response to yesterday’s tragedy, but it’s hard to see how.

Update: Nathaniel Blake at Human Events Online joins in on the fun, defending Derbyshire, and then writing that the students at Virginia Tech should feel “heartily ashamed” for not acting more bravely.

what an asshat! too bad he wasn’t in the line of fire. my guess is he’d run faster than anyone else.

  • Previously posted at another entry – more appropriate here:

    If our constitutional right to keep and bear arms hadn’t been illegally abridged by Liberal Weenies it would be a reasonable supposition that some Red-Blooded American Patriot within the student body might have been in a position to pull that ole hog leg out of his pack, take careful aim, and splatter Mr. Cho’s brains all over the mural well before he got to his tenth victim.
    One might also consider how far the 9/11 hijackers would have gotten if 5% to 10% of the airline passengers were packin’.

  • I can just imagine the damage that this clown could do with a concealed carry permit. A truck in the parking lot next door backfires and Rambo jumps up with his own guns blazing. Take his ideas to the extreme and imagination if everyone turned into that.

  • It could well be that a significant number of the dead were the folks who tried to attack and disarm the guy.

  • Handguns aren’t very accurate, even at close range. I shoot mine all the time at the range, and I still can’t hit squat.

    Translation: I’m such an arsehole that not only do I blame victims of mass murderers, but I blame my gun for the fact I’m unable to hit the target!

    Sounds like an ideal candidate for the Rethuglicans.

    I bet he blames “stuck up women and frigid livestock” for the fact he’s never been laid. And “foreigners” for the fact he can’t hold a job and has to live in mommy’s basement. And mommy for the fact he’s run out of Doritos…

    Excuse me for being unpleasant but I’d like to see how this Keyboard Warrior reacts if some freak started charging around in his vicinity with a gun. It would be fun to see him explain why he had to knock down several people in an attempt to save his worthless unwashed hide. (I wanted to give them a chance to be heroes!)

    This piece of shit makes Little Debbie look quasi-human.

  • “I suppose it’s possible we’ll find a dumber response to yesterday’s tragedy, but it’s hard to see how.”

    We might.

    I was listening to some guy on MSNBC yesterday, who stated that he was a gun rights supporter, basically blaming the tragedy on people who failed to notice that the perpetrator was about to go on a shooting spree and therefore failed to intervene before it all happened. He said this was “disturbing.”

    I hope I can find a transcript of this.

  • I’m all for a draft John for Iraq.

    What is a guy, no, hero like this doing here in the safe confines of the NRO? He should be over in Iraq volunteering to be on point for every foot patrol and house search. Be in the lead HMMV for each stupid road patrol. If the enemy blow of his legs, be able to drag himself with his arms and beat them to death with his amputated legs.

    Heroism has a new name and it’s John Derbyshire.

    /snark

    So easy to say when it’s not your ass that’s being shot at.

  • “Handguns aren’t accurate, even at close range”?

    In a post full of absolutely stupid statements, this has got to be a contender for the stupidest.

    Care to test that theory, Derb? Stand right there….

    Seriously, I don’t know much about guns, but if ANY handgun isn’t accurate at close range, then — really — what’s the point of manufacturing, selling, and possessing it?

  • If our constitutional right to keep and bear arms hadn’t been illegally abridged by Liberal Weenies

    Which “well regulated Militia” are you a part of, Sumi Nod?

    And, if someone actually had the means, the ability, and the opportunity to intervene in such a situation as the classroom shooting, what exactly about obeying a primal instinct of self-defense makes that person a “Red-Blooded American Patriot”?

  • Far be it from me to defend a repug weenie, but I’ve had similar thoughts myself. What in the hell would I do – any of us do – in the same situation? If you’re going to die, why not make a grab for the gun? I just don’t know.

  • To the notion that More Guns Will Make Us Safer, Sumi Nod, I have this to say.

    At work, I look out one window and see a major league baseball statium. (SBC Park in SF) would players or other fans there feel safer if 5% of the drunk yahoos there had guns? Didn’t think so.

    The other window, I see Interstate 80, off the Bay Bridge. Do you think drivers will be safer if 5% of the other drivers had guns? Including 5% of the drunk drivers? Perhaps not.

    Sitting on BART public transportation, including all the nuts talking into their imaginary cell phones, or walking down the street, more guns means more public gun deaths in aggregate. Perhaps fewer massacres, but it would be overwhelmed by the increase in ‘background’ violence.

    It’s not the ‘Wild Wild West’ anymore.

  • It is too bad that Bruce Willis wasn’t receiving an honorary degree in kicking-ass from VT yesterday. He could have executed a perfect “Derbyshire” and saved countless lives!

    I think the next time there is a major disaster/horrifying mass murder John derbyshire should be immedately flown to the site of the event and should then immedately stop it!

    Someone needs to stop watching the Sci-fi Channel and surf over to the History Channel. What a tool.

  • Amendment II
    “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

    It don’t say nuthin’ about mandatory militia membership. It says I got a right to ‘keep and bear’ in case the militia needs me. Or vice-versa.

  • “Handguns aren’t accurate, even at close range”?

    tell that to the police officers who, thanks to diligent practice at the shooting range, can pick off an armed criminal with little problem. john’s difficulty (other than being an idiot) is he has no clue how to fire a handgun. they’re accurate john. you’re not.

  • I guess we Asians are too much lightweights to carry anything heavier than a pair of handguns. We all wear glasses, too, because we can’t hit anything in front of us without them. Why not try and rush us math nerds?

  • Will Derbyshire be making a call to the family of the RA who was the second person to die, telling them how much he salutes his bravery for approaching the gunman?

    As someone who actually has had a gun to my head, I have more respect for the effect of those millions of years of evolution than Derbyshire’s fantasy world. In the moment, a sudden flood of stress hormones has a unique inhibiting effect on the brain’s ability to assess the ratio of gun caliber to bodily damage.

    Paradoxically, the hindbrain maintains a preternatural ability to judge the likely failure of an attempt to cross a chaotic classroom and execute a tackle before the bullets take you down, and to quickly adopt another tactic for survival.

    Stupid as he is, I hope Mr. Derbyshire is never in a situation where he actually does try to count shots. It’ll sure suck when he discovers the shooter has an extended magazine.

  • What’s amazing is that, given time to think about it, the best strategy he can come up with is a cannon-fodder, full frontal assault.

    These were college students, with big heavy textbooks. If I were to suggest someone be a hero, I’d tell them to throw one book across the room as diversion, one at the guy and then the bumrush. Not run at the guy and hope he doesn’t get a facial hit. However, I’d probably be hiding behind a desk or something.

    Idiots.

  • “even if hit, a .22 needs to find something important to do real damage — your chances aren’t bad.”

    First off, what about the one that wasn’t a 22?

    Second, by all accounts, the mortality rate on those he shot is well above 50%.

    Third, no word on how many he shot at and missed, but it doesn’t seem like he missed that often. A medical examiner or treating doctor (I think the latter) on the radio this morning stated that all of the wounded had at least three bullets each in them. Maybe an overstatement, but still –

    All in all, I don’t think I’d like those chances.

  • So offensive, I’m surprised he didn’t go for the piss-everyone-off hat trick and assume the madman might’ve been a better shot cuz them Asiana is always squinting. Unfrickinbelievable.

  • You know, I meant no offense in my prior message- I was trying to imply what an asshat might think as opposed to trying to be an asshat myself-but it comes across harsher than I intended, so apologies if anyone is offended.

  • My next door neighbor was deployed for anti-terrorism duty in a secret location and he bought a .22 for his pregnant wife to use for protection while he was gone. Since she wouldn’t shoot it, he bought me one as well, so we could both practice at the range, thinking that having female company would help her be more confident. Being special forces, he thought a .22 was enough protection. Just to be sure, he bought us exploding bullets. How did John know that the bullets in the .22 the young man had weren’t loaded with exploding bullets?

  • john’s difficulty (other than being an idiot) is he has no clue how to fire a handgun.

    And/or his piece is a POS, and/or he’s expecting the gun fairies to come in the night and clean the gun so it fires properly.

    The only thing that makes up for his crap is I now have an image of some wide-bottomed, pig eyed fRightie blamming away at the target range, shells bouncing off his nose, never coming within a yard of the target and when he’s standing knee deep in casings, he shouts “Damn it, what’s wrong with this thing?!” while around him people fall down laughing.

  • Looks like the Nazis are back.

    slappy,

    This Asian takes no offense as I knew what you meant.

  • Pretty much everybody who ever fired a gun at me was Asian. I remain very respectful to this day.

  • I went reading stories about this and it looks like many people, students and teachers, some still living and some now dead did in fact act to save lives. The only problem seems to be nobody busted a cap in his ass..

    Sumi Don, I hope you take more care when cleaning your gun than you do when reading the Consitiution. Please explain to me how this murder rampage threatened the security of a free state. Do you think this guy was hoping to become dictator of Virginia by taking over this university building?

    If you want a gun, bully for you. Just keep it away from me and my family. Just for arguments sake what would have happened if one of the students had a gun, shot at the gunman and accidentaly killed a classmate? Would that dead person’s family feel better that s/he was killed by Billy the Kidd of VT or a derranged gunman?

    I think you are off your nut. Go hunt a muskrat.

  • I hope, however, that if I thought I was going to die anyway, I’d at least take a run at the guy.

    This is as good an explanation for “suicide bomber” as I’ve ever seen. Many Iraqis must feel like this every day of their lives.

  • MNProgressive

    You’re drawing unimplied conclusions.

    Amendment II says you HAVE THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR. It states a reason why you have that right but not a prerequisite.

    You don’t have to exercise the right but you also don’t have the right to infringe upon my right.

    If we want to limit gun ownership in this country the answer is simple: amend the constitution. You’d probably have more support than the flag burning amendment has.

    At last count there were more guns in America than people (300,000,000)

  • The argument that someone could have/would have/should have stopped this guy with their own handgun just fails the history test.

    Case in point, Killean Texas, Luby’s Cafe (Fort Hood for God’s sake). One gunman, twenty-three dead victums.

    Did a heat packing patron do the gunman?

    No!

    Did the police do the gunman?

    No!

    Shot himself, he did.

    The same day as this incident the Washington Post had an article noting that of the 30,000 successful suicides in this country a year, HALF are committed with guns. Guns make suicides very successful.

    Do we really want to make a college campus an armed camp? A campus full of depressed and stressed students?

  • What was that about keeping bears…?

    Anyhow, I guess the victims just didn’t get their scripts, and had little time for rehearsal. The killer had probably rehearsed a great deal — which is the problem with people who live in Fantasyland. Rather, for those around them.

    People who spend a lot of time planning how they’re going to use their guns in home defense, etc. often get killed, sometimes by their own weapons. It’s the obsessive planning that does them in.

    I grew up with guns, own one Vietcong 53 carbine I’ve never fired, and an SKS I’ve fired once. My contingency plan is to maybe grab my SKS, look all around for some bullets, then run. Better still, just run.

  • If he can kill 32 people with an inaccurate handgun – a mere slingshot, really – a peashooter – I’d hate to think what he could have done if there were such things as accurate handguns. NRO: always first in the race to the bottom.

  • Maybe Mr. Derbyshire should speak to an ER doc.

    9mm’s are jacketed bullets. Typically a lead core with a copper or steel covering. They generally go through tissue and bone leaving a hole.

    .22’s are typically unjacketed, just a lead slug. They can richochet off bone and splinter causing more internal damage that is far harder to stabilize and treat.

    One is just as deadly as the other.

  • The answer to gun violence is not more guns, it’s less guns. Any fool can see this except, it seems, people that tow the NRA line.

    Worse yet are the reichwing Monday-morning-quarterbacks blaming the victims for, of all things, not behaving in a way almost certain to get themselves killed rather than save themselves. The sheer stupidity of the comments, not to mention the truly horrible timing of them, is a perfect example of the kind of ass-backwards rightwing bullshit this country is swimming in.

  • What an idiot.

    First, a .22 can do world’s of damage. The bullet is very unstable and is very fast. Unless the round is full metal jacket, it literally disintegrates upon impact.

    It creates in one hole going in, and 5+ holes on the way out (if it does in fact exit).

    Second, he’s obviously vomiting a lie when he says handguns are inaccurate at any range. I doubt the shooter made a single shot over 10 yds….most of them were probably from 10-20 ft. And it’s not like he was shooting ping pong balls…these are people.

    People make large targets. Any one of you could hit a 1.5 x 2 ft target at 15 feet even if you’ve never once shot a gun, ESPECIALLY when you’re not rushed and take your time.

    See, Wunderboy should have, and would have, known this…IF he was a shooter. But he’s not. Wonderlick, together with inside/out Don Imus on this here board and Black, are simply a bunch of wannabes who cannot come to terms with the fact that they’re nothing but a bunch of big ol’ pussies.

    They sit down when they pee. Isn’t that right, Big Don?

    Pussies pop off like these two…oh, and that cad Blake from HEO.

    See, this Texan grew up with an assload of guns. My grandpa was a market hunter, my dad was an outfitter for 17 years, and I paid my way through undergrad and some of my grad school tuition guiding people duck hunting. Two separate times I’ve found myself in the unfortunate situation of having a gun pointed at me….once by a drunk in the parking lot of bar in Winnie, Texas. The second by a husband who came home while we were packing up his wife to move her to a woman’s shelter b/c he was beating the shit out of her on a daily basis.

    All this talk about how they’d react is just projection and cover for their lack of testosterone (or it’s the salve for their itchy vagina). Unless you’ve been there, truly been there, you don’t have a fucking clue.

    I’ll bet dollars to doughnuts that if any one of them were to one day look north into a gun barrel pointing south, they’d immediately wet their pants and start crying like the little bitches they are.

    Nothing burns my ass more than someone who knows their all hat with no cattle, and they still can’t keep their damn mouths shut.

  • It’s not like this was Rambo, hosing the place down with automatic weapons. He had two handguns for goodness’ sake — one of them reportedly a .22.

    I wonder how many guys who say or write stuff like this would be one of the ones who actually do it in that situation.

    I doubt this guy was any better than I am.

    I think the fact that this guy was able to kill so many people with those weapons shows that, by natural skill or whatever, he was really good at it. He certainly seems to have been a lot more determined than the Columbine killers. There may be a right-wing tendency to put this guy’s violence-skills down because he was a dorky looking asian kid, but he was obviously a nut. I wish someone had wrestled him down, too, but maybe the idea that he was a putz is Monday morning quartbacking of a pretty despicable kind.

  • uhhh… if they’re not very accurate, or lethal, how did he manage to kill 32 people?

    Not to mention, what a dick thing to say to a community in the aftershock of a horrible tragedy.

    Douchebag!

    You too, Sumi Nod.

  • Darren wins Post Of The Day… by far the best smack down of the Derb I’ve read!

  • Even if you are dumb enough to not be afraid of a lunatic with a .22 in one hand, does the 9mm Glock in his other hand not count for something?

  • .22’s are typically unjacketed, just a lead slug. They can richochet off bone and splinter causing more internal damage that is far harder to stabilize and treat.

    If you ever visit DC you might notice there are quite a few young, (Early 30’s or younger) African-American men in wheelchairs. Apparently this is because your friendly neighbourhood drive-by creeps favour .22s. And the easiest part of a person to hit is the biggest part – your torso. The bullet slams around, whacks the victim in the spine. (In DC it might take an hour to get from the scene of the shooting to a hospital with an ER.) Result: The victim doesn’t walk again.

    But really, I don’t care if the shooter was firing blanks. It is impossible to predict what sort of orders your brain is going to send when you’re shit scared.

    BTW reports are coming out that at least one professor died because he leapt in front of Cho. I don’t know if that will satisfy JD. Maybe not, since the professor failed to disarm the killer.

  • “You know what else would be easy? Knocking off Sadam Hussein. Why do we let him push us around like that? Just take him out. At least assassinate the guy. Problem solved.”

    –Aspiring Young Heritage Foundation member, quoted in Everything I Know About the World, I Learned from Rambo III shortly before dropping out of college to set up Iraq’s Stock Market.

  • Imagine five or fifty students firing at the one who began killing – 33 would be a small death toll.

    If someone is shooting at me, I do not try to be a hero. I try to stay alive. As a character in a movie stated, “Do you know the definition of a hero? Someone who gets others killed.”

  • I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. They call it The Corner because that’s where the DUNCES sit!

    What a shame that Derbyshire could not have been there to personally demonstrate his technique for rushing a suicidal mass murderer armed with two handguns. Best case he could have saved the day and scored one for all gun-toting dunces everywhere who can’t shoot. Worst case, the world would have one less tough-talking, loudmouth, chicken-hawk mama’s boy and one more decent candidate for this year’s Darwin Awards.

    I also can’t help thinking that rushing someone armed with a pair of handguns is likely to be a little more daunting in practice than rushing someone armed only with a box cutter — with all due respect to the bravery of some of the passengers of flight 93.

  • In case my previous post was too obscure: These guys think the world works like Schwarzenegger movies. I really think that, more than anything is responsible for Iraq. Bush formed his idea of how the world worked through Commando rather than book-learnin’ and snooty first-hand experience. It’s true of all the keyboard commandos, bravely picturing themselves taking out twenty guys at once.

    Who says no one tried to take him down? Do we know this? Or do we just assume this because anyone who tried to take him down is dead now? Maybe the guys who charge him, you know… got shot?

    In the real world, going hand-to-hand against an armed assailant puts you at a disadvantage — even if you’re the good guys.

  • Derbyshire’s thoughts are a special kind of stupid, combing a unique blend of blame-the-victim arrogance, Monday-morning quarterbacking, unearned machismo, and a breathtaking degree of callousness.

    They’re really just standard issue Derbyshire, the kind of Tory Twit who reminds me what a good thing it was when my ancestors threw bozos like him out of the country 230 years ago. Too bad we didn’t bar the door and keep them out permanently.

  • I had the misfortune to know someone who claimed that if he was at the World Trade Center and saw the planes heading toward him, he would have jumped thru the window and into the cockpit and “fucked those mutherfuckers up!” Not withstanding the spead of the plane “splat!!” or that the building’s windows were of tempered glass and would’ve bounced him back into the center of the soon to be ex room, this idiot was fucking serious! (expletive appropriate in this case).

  • And even if hit, a .22 needs to find something important to do real damage — your chances aren’t bad. — Derbyshire

    32 dead says otherwise.

  • One of the items coming through in news reports about the shooter is that he was obsessed with violence. All of these chickenhawks, like “the Derb,” have that obsession in common with the shooter. All the relish that these righties have shown with the death, torture and destruction featured in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is beyond ghoulish. Derbyshire has much more in common with the bastard behind the guns than anyone in front of them.

  • One other thing: I first learned of Derbyshire a couple of weeks ago when another blog posted his rant about the dreadful British soldiers who had the nerve to be captured by the RNG. And then, horror of horrors, they didn’t even provoke their captors into torturing or killing them. The shame!

    Once I understood this guy wasn’t some sort of sick spoof I realized he was just a sick muthafucka.

  • Derby obviously didn’t see that episode of Kung Fu… where Kwai Chang Caine calmly deflects the bullets of gunslinger with the face of a shovel… then catches the revolver mid-air as the punk flips it up to change hands…

    What elan!
    And no blood!

    That’s how it is done Derby…
    Except maybe using a thick Calculus book…

  • The age of the victims and hysteria may have made a coordinated response impossible. One person making a move would have little chance of success. Put 3 vets, 3 jocks, or maybe even 3 men between 25 and 45 who know each other in the room and things would probably be different. One way or another people beyond a certain age have generally been confronted with their mortality. Most of us have had near misses, probably requiring cool, deliberate, rapid response. Car accidents, climbing accidents, confrontations with people who may kill us,… At that age, most kids cant even conceive of their own death. Not tryin to sound like Rambo. Making no claims.

  • On the news they just said the Glock held 15 rounds I think and the 22 held ten. So what rounds were the kids supposed to count? They ere supposed to just recognize, despite their shock, that he was holding a Glock 9mm from all the gun magazines they all happened to read growing up and happen to know how many rounds the clip held, and the same for the .22?

    Derbyshire is an idiot.

  • Disarming armed madmen is the challenge of our time.

    Prevention with timely mental health intervention is much a preferable way to prevent a slaughter , rather than charging into semi-automatic weapons fire.
    As a society we need to address the reality that neglecting the suffering of the mentally ill opens the doors of Hell to us all.
    All of us, and especially our solders returning with their post-traumatic torments, deserve the finest mental health care this country can provide.

  • We’ve had an armed madman in the White House for six years and no one has been able to stop him yet.

  • I have to admit that a thought about jumping the gunman briefly crossed my mind. Unlike Derb, though, I quickly banished it to the “batshit insane” bin. Besides the various points that people have made about identifying the caliber and number of rounds, you also have to consider the number of attackers. We now know it was one guy, but the people in that building had no idea if it was one or ten. In a situation like Columbine, jumping out to tackle one gunman would likely get you popped by a second shooter. These situations aren’t video games where you just accept dying on the first try at a new level so you can learn where the bad guys are located.

    I don’t even know why I even wasted the time to respond to that argument.

  • To me, the fascinating thing about this post and thread is how many of us gave this so much thought — now or previously.

    I have, I admit, but when I was younger. I think it’s a “male thing,” and that there’s nothing wrong with it — thinking about it, I mean.

    As I’ve said, I’ve used guns and had them around all my life, but I’ve never thought seriously about firing one at anybody.

    But I DID fire a gun at a person in 1967. Sort of. It was a 50 cal. machine gun and I didn’t hit anybody. Didn’t really see anybody.

    On the other hand, I was on the receiving end several times from mortars and rockets. I doubt Derby has had the pleasure of bracketing fire and hearing them “walking in” on his cocksure ass.

    And I wasn’t even a grunt.

  • As someone who had his friends killed at last years mass murder, can I deliver a full and throaty “Fuck You”?

    This comes from people that were burners, built hundred foot high fire installations, massive gyrsopheres and have set off gas bombs. Plinking at cans was a known target space.

    Knowing all of this the only thing that’s important between you and a man with a gun is space and matter. You try and put as much of both variables between the actors.

    Gee, I wish there was a magic fairy with a gun to stop the shooting once it started, but I also want a magic pony in Iraq, and another one in the accounting department. Unfortunately most of us live in the real world. The kind where your friends get shot. The kind where a quarter of your taxes goes to paying interest. The kind where your brother gets sent off to war to have half of his squad killed in a friendly fire incident. The kind of world where you know more dead people in a year than relatives 60 years your senior.

    The kind of world George Bush decides upon.

    To the morons who kill others to ease their slip into the moral abyss, I say “Fuck you”.
    The the morons who send others to be killed to prevent their slip in the polls I say “Double Fuck You!”.

    The bit of reasoning that gives me hope is that a collective based on sycophantic data will tear itself apart before too long due to the game theory involved. However this same insight also means we are going to see lots of tragedies as this fact exposes itself in a manner that kills thousands of people, allowing their perceptions to evolve.

    I mean you would think between David and Xerxes, Stalin and Hitler, these points would become embedded, but never underestimate the capacity for human stupidity.

  • It boggles my mind that the vast majority of comments here seem to distill down to “stand still and get shot” just because a repug suggested otherwise.

  • I know Derbyshire thinks he is a combination of Rambo, John McClane, and Dirty Harry, knowing the exact specs of the shooter’s weapons (of course, those gentlemen had help from the scriptwriters) and calmly counting bullets. But if he is ever in such a situation, I’m betting on a replay of George Costanza’s famous charge, as he shoved children and old ladies out of his way as he screamingly fled a minor fire at his girlfirend’s apartment.

  • I don’t think anybody was saying the victims should have stood still. I don’t think Derbyshire suggested standing still, and I don’t think anybody tried to refute that. I didn’t, anyway.

  • Even the police use negotiators. The police don’t think the best answer to every hostage situation is to charge in. Sometimes, it might be, but maybe this wasn’t one of them. Maybe this was a situation where the guy was just likely to shoot you before you get to him. The whole thing about counting bullets is insane, it’s a bet even if you know what gun the guy has, and then you still have to be able to beat the guy in hand to hand combat before he manages to reload.

  • It boggles my mind that the vast majority of comments here seem to distill down to “stand still and get shot” just because a repug suggested otherwise.

    Where the hell do you get that, you dishonest twit? Pointing out the lunatic, faux-heroic putziness of The Derb hardly equates to “stand still and get shot,” and I defy you to point out one post that even implies as much. To the countrary, a number of comments point out that someone may very well have tried to resist, for all the good it did.

    If you aren’t completely ignorant, you know that under fire, people’s instinct is to find cover. The US military is among the best-trained in the world, and even it has a hell of a time training that instinct out of our soldiers. There’s no call whatsoever, aside from idiotic, chest-thumping overcompensationist fantasy, for blaming the victims of this tragedy — they were fuicking unarmed against a shooter with two weapons.

    “Count the shots,” my ass. I read comic books too; I just know they’re fantasy. Tool.

  • Could be that the whole point of carrying two guns was so to never be without one that was loaded, to make him even less vulnerable when he has to reload one. Or even if it wasn’t the point, or he wasn’t smart enough to think of using them that way, it may work out like that.

  • Susan,

    The world is not black and white. Neo-con Republican world pretends it is but the reality based community, which we are proud to belong to here at TCBR, knows it is a rainbow of grays.

    Beileve it or not there are many options between standing still and shotting someone. Since 33 people died and the shooter kiled himself (he was not blown away in a whirling Derbyshire) I have to assume the remainder of the people in the building found other courses of action.

    Derbyshire made a macho and uninformed comment and everyone here (save a couple 2nd ammendment “fuzzy interpreters”) is performing an appropriate reality based smackdown.

  • I am not a “tool” Gregory, nor am I completely ignorant – thanks loads, pal, for jumping on a fellow liberal, by the way – I am just pointing out that the tenor of the comments here and elsewhere is that “since Derbyshire is a Republican ass” – which he is, by the way – “it’s not legit to wonder why in these situations no one goes for the gun.”

    You all need to read over the comments here and think before you attack me as mindlessly as you’re all attacking Derbyshire.

  • Hot topic.

    There should be fewer guns and they should be harder to get. Agreed.

    Now, what do you think we should do about the literally 300 million guns in circulation in the country now?

    A month or so ago a friend told me about a S&W .38 Police Special for $200. No papers, no permits and no registration. Just for curiosity I checked last night. The offer still stands. The S&W .38 Police Special is an old Cop revolver from before the age of Glock. A cop (not the present owner) sold it into the black market. There are a whole lot of old cop revolvers in the informal market.

  • It boggles my mind that the vast majority of comments here seem to distill down to “stand still and get shot” just because a repug suggested otherwise.

    You’re either trolling or your reading comprehension suffers in the AM. The alternative to not attacking the madman with a gun is not standing in place waiting to be shot, it’s running away from the madman with a gun.

    In a previous comment, you suggested “making a grab for the gun.” You do realize the gun is not an item sitting on a desk in front of you, right? It’s in someone’s hand 30 feet away from you.

    Do you have a degree from the Jack Bauer School of Improbable Survival? Rocket boots? Because that’s what this superhuman feat would have taken.

    Your logic is also flawed. You suggest that we began with the premise that Derbyshire is an ass and therefore what he writes must be inherently wrong. The correct logic is that Derbyshire wrote something profoundly wrong and therefore is an ass. I don’t care if he’s a conservative, liberal, or has the ability to grow his fingernails at an extraordinary rate: what he said unequivocally asinine and morally reprehensible.

    I won’t resort to name calling, but your ideas are indefensible.

  • And according to you, doubtful, the people on Flight 93 should have stayed the hell in their seats.

    As solid a leftist as Orwell railed against the “boiled rabbits of the left.” There are a bunch of them hopping around the blogsphere today.

  • Susan, explain to me how I suggested “the people on Flight 93 should have stayed the hell in their seats.”

    You can’t because I didn’t. You would rather make a wild claim in an attempt to discredit someone, but you just make yourself look more foolish.

    Again, you’re ideas are indefensible and you’ve solidified your position as a troll.

    This is your last feeding.

  • Somebody needs to give the ‘Derb’ a bucket and some rubber gloves and send him into the scene of the massacre to clean up. My guess is that his imaginary bravery would dry up quickly. Anyone who says that they’d do anything other than run from gunfire is either a liar, a stooge, or a former marine. Given that Mr. Derbyshire is a naturalized citizen originally from Great Britain, and admits to being unable to fire a handgun, my guess is he’s not a former marine.

    Further, the heroes on flight 93 had time to form a plan. The VT students were in much more immediate danger in the form of a rapidly approaching gunman. The sort of hubris exhibited by Derbyshire and similar cronies is a shameful and disgusting display of disrespect for the dead.

  • I think we should put John Derbyshire in a room with a maniac gunman and see how he fairs bravely rushing the guy through a room of scattered desks and chairs. Hey and then we could bet on his odds.

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