‘Dream Ticket’ talk off to a bad start

Last night, Barack Obama called Hillary Clinton to congratulate her on her win in South Dakota. Voicemail messages were exchanged and a connection was dropped before the two were actually able to talk at all. And when they did speak, it was kept brief, in part because of some less-than-ideal technical issues.

There’s a campaign metaphor in there somewhere.

In any case, the two reportedly did speak today.

And while it’s safe to assume the two did not speak at all the Democratic ticket, the Obama campaign did announce today that Caroline Kennedy will lead a three-person working group responsible for vetting prospective VP candidates. Kennedy will work with Jim Johnson, who also helped John Kerry with his VP search, and Eric Holder, a deputy attorney general in the Clinton administration and has been a senior legal adviser to Obama’s campaign.

Throughout the day, there’s been ample evidence that Clinton supporters are leaning heavily on the Obama campaign to pick Clinton for the ticket, but I can’t help but think they’re going about this the wrong way.

The Clinton campaign reportedly gave Robert Johnson the green light to push for Clinton as the VP:

“Johnson said he talked specifically with Clinton on Tuesday about his intentions. ‘She said, ‘Go ahead,” he recalled, although asked that he wait until Wednesday to do so.

In other words, Hillary basically authorized Johnson to launch the campaign. This is all pretty suggestive stuff.

Lanny Davis is still doing whatever it is he does:

On Tuesday night, he launched — without, he said, coordination with the Clinton campaign — a petition drive aimed at persuading Obama to tap her as his running mate.

Clinton herself seems anxious to stir the discussion:

Velazquez said that Hillary didn’t bring it up, but also said that Hillary clearly signaled her openness to the idea — suggesting that she did indeed go beyond her previous statements on this.

Some of Clinton’s congressional supporters are organizing to begin pressuring Obama to do the same.

I’ve even heard some veiled threats in some circles, about how Obama won’t be given a choice: no Clinton means no support in November. A TPM reader noted:

Let’s be clear about what Hillary is doing here. By signaling that she’ll take the VP slot if offered — and insinuating that a joint ticket is necessary to heal the party(!) — she is foregoing the normal diplomatic niceties in order to screw Obama. It sticks him with the choice between looking like the bad guy (for not offering) and doing something he really doesn’t want to do (putting her on the ticket). Either way, he loses. And either way, she wins: she gets on the ticket or else she engenders a lot of bitterness in her supporters, hurting Obama’s chances in November….

This strikes me as a very poor strategy, if this is, in fact, what Clinton’s supporters have in mind.

Obama is the Democratic nominee for president. He is now the leader of the party, and stands a reasonably good chance of being the leader of the free world. The very last thing Clinton associates should do is try to seize the VP slot in some kind of brute-force move. That’s backwards — threats, ultimatums, and coercion about what he “has” to do makes it less likely Obama will find the message appealing, not more likely.

My advice: stop pushing and start working. It’s obviously only been a day since Obama clinched — not even 24 hours — so it’s too soon to know everyone’s strategies going forward. But if Clinton wants to prove that she’d be a valuable addition to the Obama team, she can endorse him, encourage others to do the same, and get out there to make his election more likely. Become the kind of asset that the nominee would want for the ticket.

This notion that Obama can be backed into a corner and forced to accept a running mate is foolish. It’s more likely to backfire than succeed.

Why did we ever think that the Clintons were talented politicians? Or were they once and have just completely gone tone deaf?

  • Bitches are always demanding. Just kidding. JUST KIDDING!!!

    Maybe sicko Mo Dowd is right. Maybe Hillary is trying to “emasculate” Obama.

    I’m sure she’s not too worried about it but she just keeps alienating me more and more. And I used to like her.

    I hope this is not Obama’s first compromise as the nominee.Orange

  • “This strikes me as a very poor strategy, if this is, in fact, what Clinton’s supporters have in mind.”

    Totally, completely and absolutely agree.

    And no I don’t think Clinton’s supporters have this in mind.

    More like Charles Kruathammer (actually, this is exactly what he suggested doing).

  • For sure it will backfire–there will be a few of her supporters that think this heavy-handed blackmail attempt is a good idea, but it appears even some of her supporters are getting tired of this. I just saw Charlie Rangel on MSNBC, and he strongly suggested he would speak to her today to stop the madness (my words, not his).

    And the committee that is working on the vetting for VP are people that I’m sure can not easily be bullied.

    On another note, last night rocked the universe! I had always thought the first AA would be some conservative like James Watts–but amazingly I was so wrong, and I am so glad I was so wrong!

  • …there’s been ample evidence that Clinton supporters are leaning heavily on the Obama campaign to pick Clinton for the ticket, but I can’t help but think they’re going about this the wrong way.

    It is actually humorous. These people continue to underestimate Barack’s backbone. He is a hell of lot tougher than they imagine. For perspective consider this: Remember going into Texas and Ohio and the kitchen sink? He stuck by his guns and ran his campaign according to its foundational principles. A weaker man would have caved and gone negative to match strides.

    He is strong. Iron strong. Trying to shove a veep down his throat this way is an ignorant strategy.

  • It also shows a real lack of concern for Democratic liberal goals, refusing to concede and trying this tactic. If she succeeds it only makes Obama look weak. And why are all these calls for Democratic party unity? What happened to national unity? (Plus, really, do we think all of those hispanics and appalachians voted for hillary because they love hillary, or because they’re frightened of a black man? If any white man had been his primary opposition, wouldn’t we have gotten the same results? Can’t help feeling that this should have been Obama’s night, and if she decides to keep undermining him…. well, she’s lost my respect.)

  • Obama should have Caroline Kennedy call Hillary to say she is instructed to begin a vetting process. “Before I can start, I need to get the all the data on contributions for Bill’s library,” the conversation would begin. “Is there any way we can get a list of women who might accuse him of well, you know? And I’m still not real clear on your relationships with Christopher Korge, Peter Paul and some of these other donors and bundlers who have been under investigation or sued you for one reason or another. Tell you what, how about I just mail you the list, since I know your time is valuable. Do you think Mark Penn and some of your other aides would cooperate? I’m particularly interested in talking to the people who contributed to that Vanity Fair article. Don’t worry, it’s just standard procedure…”

  • Rick said:
    What ever I said in the last thread applies here too, but I’ll add bitch!

    Rick your mom called. She said watch your language young man. 🙂

  • Whatever Hillary is doing it is NOT abetting her stated ends from yesterday’s speech. Because… at this point anything that harms the democratic party and its nominee will endanger those ends.

  • Seems like one senator on the ticket should be enough. And why the hell would Clinton even want to give up her senate seat to be a VP for anyone? If she stays in the senate she can be a real force for change, and maybe even replace the wimpy Harry Reid. As VP, what is she actually going to be able to accomplish? Could she ever disagree with Obama? WTF would she even want with that kind of subservient job?

    Maybe she saw Cheney’s take on the VP being an actual fourth branch of government and liked it.

  • If she decided to contest the VP selection at the convention, she already has close to enough votes.

    I’d personally rather be a second term Senator from NY, on the Armed Services Committee, and introduce the next undeversal health care bill, but who’s to say …

  • it’s like clinton has paid zero attention to obama’s message: strong-arming your way onto his ticket is precisely the opposite way he would do anything.

  • Hillary’s posturing on this whole VP thing smacks of political henpecking. There’s no way Obama can choose her for the ticket without it looking like a purely political move. And, unless I heard wrong, his whole thing is about ditching purely political moves.

    Jon Stewart says your veep choice is a chance to win back those party members you’ve disenfranchised. That would certainly include Hillary supporters.

    I see this VP choice thing as a huge challenge for Obama. McCain could pick Danny Devito to be his running mate [just ot make him look taller] and no one would bat an eye. But, everyone’s going to be watching how Obama deals with the VP question. It’s an opportunity for him to show his ability to come up with creative solutions to tough questions. And chances are, his pick will show us all what he’s made of.

  • In other news, Taylor Marsh has threatened to drink Draino live on Larry King if Barack Obama does not chose Hillary clinton as his running mate.

    I predicted that the moment the primary campign ended we would segway immediately into a fevered 24 hour a day non stop Will Hillary be the VP Nominee? blitz. Hillary, Bill, Ikes, McCauliffe, well connected supporters will be everywhere a camera is pointed relentlessly hammering away at this. The media will be whipped into a frenzy and talk of nothing else.

    The headline always has to be CLINTON, they always have to manopolize the attention. Will we ever be through with them?

  • I second TR’s statement. Hillary still needs to be “vetted”, in that the anonymous donors to the Clinton library need to be examined, seeing as how they have given millions of dollars to Hillary’s family. And since Hillary probably wouldn’t agree to be examined in that way, she’ll be eliminated.

  • Are there any on-line petitions to sign for those of us who think Clinton as VP would be a particularly bad idea? Aside from how rotten Clinton has been acting ever since she lost the front-runner’s spot in the nomination contest and thus totally undeserving for higher office, if Obama were to pick her as a running mate in exchange for her political support, it would undermine his message of political change. He’d come across as just another political hack and lose far more votes than he would by having the self-serving Clintons on the campaign trail.

  • Does anyone seriously believe that Obama would have chosen H. Clinton for VP even before this latest batch of revelations? The optics around Hillary are terrible and have been for some time. For example, can you imagine Hillary in the VP debate having to ‘eat’ her words about the ‘supreme commander threshold’?

    I agree with Maria @1, the Clintons have become remarkably tone-deaf. Astonishingly so.

  • Bravo, Danp. Bill’s loose-cannon qualities and questionable associations are the biggest reason–well, maybe second-biggest, after Hillary’s own reprehensible conduct (e.g. “…as far as I know”)–she shouldn’t be anywhere near the ticket.

  • I saw a clip of Clinton’s speech to the Jewish organization this morning, and she looked depressed. If so, that’s a good sign.

    Clinton really does seem to be moving through the five stages of grief. It was over when Obama won Wisconsin. Since then it’s been denial, anger (“Shame on you, Barak Obama”) and bargaining (e.g. inappropriately advertising her desire to be on the ticket). Maybe she’ll move into depression, thereby giving us break, and then acceptance, thereby giving us a hand.

    Fingers crossed.

  • By the way, Caroline Kennedy leading the vetting team? What qualifications does she have? I know it’s a sentimental pick and a payback for her endorsement, but it’s ridiculous.

  • Hillary wasn’t a force for change in the senate before this why would she be now?

    I think we’ll see Hill’s “base” evaporate like summer rain in the next few weeks.

  • Ok. We are all well aware of the “cons” of a Joint Ticket. Yes, I have heard some quite compelling arguments for why Clinton is the devil-spawn. If nothing else, this blog-munnity is, well, emphatic.

    But, are there any “Pros” to a Joint Ticket? My question to the Obama camp would be two fold:

    First: yes, Obama has the delegates, and yes the popular vote. However, the difference between the two candidates is ~61K people, or 0.17% of 36Million voters. How does that make you feel?

    Next: If he did choose Clinton, would that discourage you from voting for him?

    I’m curious – so let ‘er rip!

    lease

  • Ward’s Sister said:
    Maybe she’ll move into depression, thereby giving us break, and then acceptance, thereby giving us a hand.

    Fingers crossed.

    Hope so, but if she doesn’t give us a hand, she’ll likely give us one of the giners.

  • Ward’s Sister said:
    Maybe she’ll move into depression, thereby giving us break, and then acceptance, thereby giving us a hand.

    Fingers crossed.

    Hope so, but if she doesn’t give us a hand, she’ll likely give us one of the fingers.

  • Quick—let me get this one in before Cleaver beats me to it:

    Clinton herself seems anxious to stir the discussion cauldron

    Should we add “the Clinton Cackle” to that paraphrase?

  • If Hillary hurts Obama in 2008, he’ll be in an excellent position to return the favor in 2012. He’d be the automatic front-runner, and if Hillary couldn’t beat him now, what makes her think it would be easier four years hence?

    Hillary for Veep is a dreadful idea, but if it happens, she’d be entirely dependent on Obama for her political survival, since she’d be giving up her Senate seat. Stray off the reservation, and she’d be dumped in, ahem, a New York minute.

  • “Bitch, ” “emasculator,” “henpecker”–will you guys lay off the sexist insults? The gender-neutral “asshole deluxe,” “towering megalomaniac” and the simple but solid “pain in the fucking ass” are totally serviceable.

  • “Next: If he did choose Clinton, would that discourage you from voting for him?”

    Not at all. I’d disappointed with the choice, and I’d feel it wasn’t a good choice, but I’d acknowledge the politics behind it. If he does chose her it will be because the Party leadership pressured him. I don’t think they will, and I don’t think he’ll chose her. My impression from his speech last night was that he’d find something for her to do. It didn’t sound like he was hinting at a running mate situation to me.

  • “… A TPM reader noted:

    Let’s be clear about what Hillary is doing here…”

    You are quoting a TPM reader??? As a source of information about the motivations of Clinton??? How do you know that Obama isn’t thinking this way or that he isn’t trying to figure a way to get her on the ballot.

    Either way Obama Loses??? Why would you draw that conclusion. Has it been 24 hrs. since Obama hit the magic number yet.

    Demonizing Clinton as trying to “bully” her way into the VP spot just seems like a ploy to create enough pressure on her to not be able to accept the offer if it was made. This is pure speculation behind the motivations of Clinton and Obama which has a pure anti-Clinton bias. You could just as easily have written a post saying the complete opposite yet you chose this most divisive speculation.

    I’m an Obama supporter and feel he would be better equipped to win (which I believe he will anyway) with Clinton on the ticket but here you are going along with the suggestion that she is forcing herself off on Obama bringing a sour note to the idea which could easily be seen as an attempt to prevent it from happening. And your authoritarian TPM reader starts off with “Let’s be clear about what Hillary is doing here…” As if this were certain knowledge and not just biased opinion. “Let’s be clear…” alright…I’m going to demonize Hillary and try to make it too embarrassing for Obama to even think about adding her to the ticket…that’s what’s clear.

    Over 17 million voter for Clinton…over 17 million voted for Obama…That is strong representation together. But rather than encourage this strong ticket your “TPM reader” would prevent it by demonizing Clinton and pretending to know her motivations.

    btw… the TPM reader could be anybody these days…maybe even Harry Kellerman or even Clinton herself..ha.

  • Obama doesn’t need Clinton at all. About 140,000,000 million are going to vote in November. She clinging to 17 million and some of those in Florida and Michigan would have voted for Obama. States that were republican in the last couple of elections, are going to vote democratic in November. States like Virginia, Iowa, Missouri, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Nevada. It will be a land slide in November without Clinton. Obama will get close to 300 electoral votes. Check the numbers for yourself.

  • Actually, on a more serious note….

    The more I look at this, the more I see the possibility of Clinton attempting a “Presidency by Proxy”—whereby Obama becomes merely the figurehead; the “false front” for another round of Clintonian shenanigans and GOP-embracing triangulations. She and her inner cohort seems to be wanting to end-run both the Senate and the House; the leadership of both chambers abandoned her in her “noble cause”—and the atmosphere among many of her kool-aid-swigging sycophantic banshees supporters is coming across as a cry to avenge the fall of their glorious leader.

    I’ll give her until Friday morning—and then I’ll start calling for whatI’m seeing: a coup….

  • I’ve seen temper tantrums in the grocery store checkout line that showed more maturity than HRC has displayed. If Obama should cave in to her petulant demands, there is no way he could live up to the promise he holds forth. I don’t think there’s a snowball’s chance in hell that he will.

  • ““Bitch, ” “emasculator,” “henpecker”–will you guys lay off the sexist insults?”

    A guy can cut off balls too, you know.

  • Obama should not even consider Hillary unless she concedes, publicly endorses Obama, devotes a full speech about HIS qualities and the historic nature of Obama getting the nomination.

  • I think there is potential danger in Hillary’s approach. Potential danger to…Hillary. I don’t think Obama needs Hillary as much as people think he does.

    For a variety of reasons that I won’t go into here, I find a McCain victory very difficult to imagine. When Obama becomes President he will have achieved it either with Hillary’s help or without her help. Obviously, she’s not off to a good start in the “providing help department.” And her heavy-handed tactics regarding the VP slot are not helping her case (nor do I think they will ultimately be successful).

    So imagine what it means to Hillary’s political future to be seen by the President as having been exceedingly unhelpful in securing his victory? She (and Bill) will be frozen out at every opportunity. Her image (not to mention her husband’s legacy) will be further damaged. And all these silly people who claim Obama can’t win without Hillary will be forced to reckon with the fact that Obama has, in fact, won without her help.

    Obviously, it would be better if she were pulling with the rest of the team. But I don’t think it’s fatal to Obama in any way if she decides to take her ball and go home.

  • Everett said:
    First: yes, Obama has the delegates, and yes the popular vote. However, the difference between the two candidates is ~61K people, or 0.17% of 36Million voters. How does that make you feel?

    I’m still disappointed that the Green Bay Packers lost last year’s NFC championship game to the NY Giants in overtime, 23-20. I believe Green Bay was a better team than the Giants. And I wanted to see Bret Favre in the Super Bowl one last time.

    But I don’t think the Packers were robbed. I’m not going to whine about bias against them. Green Bay simply made too many mistakes and had the wrong strategy for the field condiditons.

    And I certainly don’t think that the NFC’s representative in the Super Bowl should have been an all-star team made up of players from both the Packers and the Giants.

  • Hillary may help Obama win bigger in states where he’s expected to win anyway. Most of her supporters will come back because of Roe v Wade, and common sense, in any case. Not many will go Jonestown with her. Her presence on the ticket will take some of the shine off the ticket, fairly or not so, and probably take some states out of play. Their platforms are very similar, electorally it may be at best a wash…If she gets it, she will have extorted it. Sure would be nice to get her on tape threatening to burn down Denver.

  • The only reason she is still talking is she wants you to pay her debt and force Obama into giving her the VP spot. I trust the Clinton’s as much as I trust Bush. You can’t lie all the time and never claim responsibility for it and expect intelligent people to believe you. There is a reason educated people voted for Obama were as the rest voted for Clinton. It’s sad because those are the people who are too busy to read a book or research facts. Those are the people that get fed lies and take them as fact. Here are some facts. President Clinton was impeached because he lied. The Clinton’s were investigated many times because of DIRECT relationships and deals that were shady to say the least; NAFTA, Whitewater, Filegate, etc.. Hillary lied 6 or 7 times about sniper fire until she got called out. Republicans that are upset are going to vote for Obama, if she isn’t on the ticket.

  • http://hcsfjm.com/

    Website of National Organization of Hillary Clinton supporters for John McCain. Clearly Hillary has been a hit with the nutcases. If Obama is weak and stupid enough to pick her for VP he doesn’t deserve to win.

  • A web poll from the site:

    What “Swing” State should we consecrate (sic) on. Vote for 3
    Ohio
    Pennsylvania
    West Virginia
    Colorado
    New Mexico
    Nevada
    Florida

  • Throughout the day, there’s been ample evidence that Clinton supporters are leaning heavily on the Obama campaign to pick Clinton for the ticket[…] — CB

    Not According to Our Mary 🙂 According to Mary, it’s *Obama* who’s doing all the pushing, because he knows he cannot do without her. Something to do with being ambivalent about his feelings about mother figures…

    If he did choose Clinton, would that discourage you from voting for him? — Everett, @25

    I replied to this at the “What does Hillary want” thread, but it was so far down, I doubt you’d see it, so I’ll repeat it here:

    No, but I will vote with a much heavier heart and will be prepared for another loss in November. I think Clinton as VP would be as poisonous to Obama’s chances as Lieberman had been to Gore’s. The two are from two different planets, almost, when it comes to personal style and general philosophy of politics, for all the similarities in their platforms.

    It would be like yoking an ox and a donkey together — something the Bible prohibits and rightly so.

  • Choosing a VP has always been about political maneuvering to swing in more voters and solidify the ticket yet I will never understand how Gore ended up with the likes of Joe Lieberman. There must be an IQ test involved where the VP has to remain below a certain level.
    The Kansas Governor would be about as effective…just go back and listen to her rebuttal to Bush’s SOTU address. Can’t remember what she said five minutes after she said it. Webb is far too inexperienced to add to the ticket…so this should be really interesting.

    If Clinton had not run for president she would have been a excellent choice…oh but wait…that shouldn’t make any difference. She could tell McCain about Obama that “experience” has got his back..eh? So far she’s the best of the suggestions as a running mate and could set the country up for another dem win in 2016 after Obama’s two terms.

    In choosing a VP you have to ask yourself “would this person also make a good president?” There went Kathleen. Edwards has said he’s not interested…hmm..Biden has set himself up for SoS…wonder who is best situated and would also make a good president? Can’t wait to see the short list…which could be very very short.

  • I think the vetting team is great idea.

    Let them look over the possibles for VP ..and let them try to vet HRC

    But at first I misread and thougth that O had picked a short list FOR VP with Caroline Kennedy on the top.

    And my heart leaped..

    I think the vetting and selection team should look to itself …and there find the name for the dream ticket…a Kennedy..one who has plenty of savvy and experience to be VP.

    Caroline.

    She has lived her life with integrity and grace. She certainly knows the insides of the governing process.

    Carloline for VP…NO you know who’s the name never to be mentioned again.

    From this day on I will NEVER so much as say that name again.

  • I can’t believe I ever considered HillBill-y astute politicians.

    It’s as if they set out to do a bad parody of themselves and all the worst of their public image in this primary race.

    God, they’re just embarassments.

    She’s getting no VP offer. The Clintons and their crony jackasses have locked themselves out of Democratic power for the foreseeable future. The party is no longer theirs and will no longer be ruled by triangulators. What a relief.

  • All these Hillary-centric threads, yet it seems like ol’ Black Hole Mary’s not responding. Someone should check her garage, make sure the engine’s not running.

    In any event, I’ll add to what ROTFLMLiberalAO, as well as others, are saying. It’s not just that Obama is too strong to fall for intimidation tactics, he’s also smarter than that, too. With the nomination sewn up, he can start calling Clinton’s Clintonian tactics for what they are. He can start calling out Hillary, personally, for dividing the party in unhealthy, damaging ways. Sure, it might poss off some of the Ferraro-heads who think she was robbed, but the less die-hard will see he’s got a point, PLUS it will endear him to the mods and left-leaning Republicans who never really like Clinton in the first place. Now that the primary’s over, pissing off Obama will backfire in so many ways. No matter how thick Hillary’s bubble is, she must know how Obama’s been making mince meat of McCain in public. Does she really want that ire thrust upon her? Can she handle it? Can she respond in kind? I know her handlers don’t mind getting their hands dirty. but all Obama has to do is remind voters that Hillary gave Bush the authority to go to war without Congressional approval, not once, but TWICE. All he has to do is remind the voters about 8 years of Clinton scandals that, even when they were unfair and unfounded, crippled the Administration’s ability to do its job. And he’ll make her seem small and petty while he does it. By the time he’s done, Hillary will be lucky getting a gig checking IDs at the Congressional Library. She’s spent enough time underestimating Obama, she’s lost enough goodwill fighting Obama. Now’s the time to let go, accept her loss and go back to being a Senator, one we will need if the Obama agenda – so very similar in so many ways to the Clinton agenda – has a chance of succeeding.

  • Obama is in no hurry at all to choose a VP.

    The convention isn’t for another 10 weeks.

    Obama and McCain will start having weekly debates soon. They will be extensively covered by the media.

    What will keep HRC in the news cycle? Nothing. There’s no story there. No primaries. No hearings. No news.

    By the time Obama chooses his VP in August no one will be talking about Hillary Rodham Clinton.

  • Hillary Clinton is STUNNING!!!

    You have just witnessed the greatest political campaign fight in American history. One for the textbooks, and the history books. Hillary Clinton fought her heart out against all odds to win for all of the American people . While at the same time doing her best to prepare Sen. Barack Obama to win in November if he was the nominee. STUNNING!!! WELL DONE HILLARY CLINTON. WELL DONE! Your AMAZING! 🙂

    Sen. Obama could not have had a better opponent than Hillary Clinton. Nor could he have had a better opponent to prepare him for the battle royal to come against John McCain and the Republicans ahead of the November elections. Hillary Clinton was like a big Mama cat determined to teach her kitten how to hunt, and hang with the big dogs for the fights ahead.

    And how about Bill Clinton, Chelsea, and th whole Clinton team. They were magnificent. They really showed their metal. BRAVO! TEAM CLINTON… BRAVO!

    And how about YOU! my fellow Americans. I’m so proud of you. And proud to be one of you. You showed what you are made of. And what makes America so great. You never gave up on your Champion Hillary Clinton. Time, and time again you eagerly waited your turn to vote for Hillary Clinton. To pick her up and pass her along down the line to the rest of your fellow Americans.

    You never gave up on her. Just as Hillary Clinton never gave up on you. No matter how many times they counted her out. No matter how many times they brutally knocked her down. You knew she would get back up. And you were ready to support her when she did. AMERICA LOVES A FIGHTER. AMERICA UNDERSTANDS A FIGHTER. AMERICA IS A FIGHTER. I’M PROUD OF YOU AMERICA!

    Hillary said she would accept the VP spot on the ticket if ask. And I am thrilled to hear that. I think it would be crazy not to take her up on that offer. You could not have a better VP than Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton is Sen. Obama’s best chance of winning the Whitehouse in November. And it is essential that the democrats take back the Whitehouse.

    The American people are in a very desperate condition now. George Bush has wrecked America, and much of the world.

    YOU MADE US VERY PROUD HILLARY CLINTON! 🙂

    WE LOVE YOU…

    jacksmith… Working Class 🙂

    p.s. I really liked Sen. Barack Obama’s speech in Minnesota. I think he just maybe ready now for the Bush Republican attack machine, dirty tricks, and vote fraud machine. 🙂

  • Laughing at #37.

    And I agree with Maria. There really is no need for the sexist insults. If you don’t like the way Hillary fights, fine.

  • I have to ignore the Hillary haters because they fortunately represent only themselves while continuously threatening a McCain victory if Clinton is not denounced. They demonize Hillary supporters based on the Hillary fringe never seeing themselves as the Obama fringe and McCain victory is always the blackmail they use to threaten. They are so filled with self righteous hate that the idea of Hillary anywhere in the universe drives them over the edge. So to suggest that Hillary should be considered a serious choice for running mate is not something they can even talk about though she would be an excellent choice for all the right political reasons such a person is chosen. They bring such fear to the table that it strangles our own best interests. This is the year that even a dead guy would bring more votes than McCain will get just like when the deceased Carrnahan beat out Ashcroft in Missouri. People are voting for the country and not the personalities of our nominees and the dems will win big. This republican disaster must be brought to an end and most voters know this. So with or without Clinton on the ticket Obama will be the next president of the USA (yes, yes).

    Knowing this then without any doubt who would we want to be able to take over should something happen to Obama…stroke, heart attack…hit by lightning…whatever…and also who would stand the best chance of retaining the presidency for the dems after Obama’s two terms have ended? These questions are even more important than who would help Obama win because nearly anyone he chooses will accomplish that.

  • Sorry but Hillary got 18 million votes. That speaks volumes. Obama would be a fool not to ask her to be VP. That way the Democrats could have their cake and eat it too.

  • Whole situation has far too much the smell of the Lamont-Lieberman thing for my liking. The sense of entitlement, the casting doubt on the whole process because the Anointed Inevitable One came out the loser. Anyone care to reassure me that all this “go to my website to tell me what I should do and give me more money” thing isn’t prelude isn’t prelude to her running on the Independent Democrat/Hillary for Hillary Party ticket? (Motto: we will honor no primary result that we don’t win.)

  • Hillary should return to the Senate and pursue doing an excellent job there instead of playing second fiddle to Obama. Why would she want to be VP? I notice a lot of gloating in this forum. Remember, POTUS has to work with congress. Obama may want to tap Richardson who may be willing to be VP.

  • How is it not totally obvious that HRC is poison in the general election?

    Do you believe Richard Mellon Sciafe supported here because she want her to be president? Do you believe Rush Limbaugh supported here because she want her to be president? Has it occurred anyone that Karl Rove might have been working some reverse psychology when he said HRC was the stronger candidate?

    The right wing attack machine stopped attacking the Clintons because Bill left office, not because they ran out of ammo.

  • I have to ignore the Hillary haters because they fortunately represent only themselves while continuously threatening a McCain victory if Clinton is not denounced

    Denounced? WTF? We just want her to respect the decision of the goddamn party and get behind the candidate. Criminy.

    Plus I don’t quite get this whole “Obama is an evil, lying, murdering hypocrite of no substance and can Hillary please be on his ticket, please please please please please? Or else!”

  • “. . .but I can’t help but think they’re going about this the wrong way.”

    If we actually know they’re doing it, then they’re definitely doing it the wrong way.

  • jacksmith said:
    Hillary Clinton is STUNNING!!!

    You have just witnessed the greatest political campaign fight in American history. One for the textbooks, and the history books. Hillary Clinton fought her heart out against all odds to win for all of the American people .

    Ummm. . . you’re being sarcastic, aren’t you? Aren’t you?

    Clinton started the primary with a lead of more than 100 superdelegates (out of 800) in her pocket and almost the entire Demcratic establishment behind her. Clinton also had the corporate-controlled media saying that she was the all-but-inevitable nominee while they were not taking Barack Obama seriously as a challenger. And Clinton had a huge financial advantage because all the corporate donors and democratic money bigwigs were backing her.

    How, pray, were the odds stacked against Clinton?

  • First: yes, Obama has the delegates, and yes the popular vote. However, the difference between the two candidates is ~61K people, or 0.17% of 36Million voters. How does that make you feel?

    It makes me feel that this was someone who understood the process and the rules and the situation on the ground. From that he developed a nimble, workable strategy which was carried out perfectly.

    Had it been a popular vote primary, rather than delegates? I imagine his strategy would have been different but the results similar. He planned and worked and spent very wisely for this. It’s impressive.

    Next: If he did choose Clinton, would that discourage you from voting for him?

    Me? No. With the SC sitting there? With the current mess and an opponent looking for more of the same? No. I wouldn’t like it and I think it would be an unwise decision, but I’d vote for him, certainly.

    BUT, I’ve got family members that have turned and would vote dem now. They wouldn’t vote for Clinton at the top of the ticket and she might well be a deal breaker for them still at VP.

  • No matter what Obama does, he should know this:

    Having BILLARY Clinton as vice president would be the equivalent of having a spitting Cobra as a room mate. You CANNOT control its NATURAL HABIT of spitting and biting. Either way, you get POISON in your blood circulatory system!

  • Jen – Thanks for that insight. What I’m trying to ascertain is this.
    1) Would a Joint Ticket repel “already Pro-Obama” voters? It seems that although it is not their first choice, the Joint Ticket is not a deal breaker for this group.
    2) Assuming that the Clinton supporters would like the The Joint Ticket, which it seems they would, The Joint Ticket instantly galvanizes 36 million Democrats.
    3) So, what about the Independent and Centrist Cross-Over Republicans? How do they react to this?

    Does anyone have data on this.

    On another thread, someone linked to a picture of a KKK member (hood and poncho included) with a sign that said “Anyone but Hilary [sic].” Ok, I grant you she might not be able to carry the Grand Wizard vote. No one’s perfect. But in all seriousness, the Gallop Poll recently put Obama at 49 to 44 vs McCain and Clinton at 48 to 44 vs McCain.

    Is there hard data showing that Obama would lose mid-ground voters given a Joint Ticket. If so, I’m all ears.

    According to “Smarter” ~140 million will vote. This less 36 million gives us 104 million voters to consider. Enough with the vitriol, let’s crunch numbers.

  • This push-push-push strategy is what finally pushed Bill Richardson into endorsing Obama. We’ve been hearing for months now that the Clinton team was hounding superdelegates, lots of phone calls that talk bad about Obama and would say nothing good about Hillary other than she “could win.”

    No one likes being pushed around and hounded. There’s a reason why people put their names and numbers on no-call lists.

    The lack of political skill demonstrated in her campaign has been really surprising to me. I don’t know what to make of it.

  • Clinton really is completely deranged. After she has mused publicly about staying in the campaign in case Obama gets assassinated (yes, that IS what she meant), does she honestly think she has a whisper of a prayer? She is collosally arrogant, collosally stupid, and collosally tone deaf, if so. That narcissm is just plain ol’ getting in the way of her common sense, if any.

    She’s going to get nothing, zip, zilch, zero, bupkus. She’ll ultimately be removed from the scene, raving and foaming at the mouth.

  • Sheeez said:
    A web poll from the site:

    What “Swing” State should we consecrate (sic) on. Vote for 3
    Ohio
    Pennsylvania
    West Virginia
    Colorado
    New Mexico
    Nevada
    Florida

    A question I haven’t seen asked:

    How will the voters in West Virginia, Kentucky and rural Pennsylvania who voted against Obama respond to putting a white woman in a subordinate position to a black man? Somehow, I doubt it would make them more likely to vote for Obama.

    Not that Clinton has demonstrated that she is able to be subordinate . . . .

  • Hillary addressing the convention will be a nightmare. Can anything good come of it for the democratic party or America?

  • Maria said:

    “Bitch, ” “emasculator,” “henpecker”–will you guys lay off the sexist insults? The gender-neutral “asshole deluxe,” “towering megalomaniac” and the simple but solid “pain in the fucking ass” are totally serviceable.

    You’re right. Sorry Maria and All Women Everywhere.

  • FWIW, I’m sure Obama has had a discussion about carrying Hillary as his Veep with Democratic leaders not long ago.

    Pelosi: Dream Ticket “Impossible” After Clinton’s Commander In Chief Statements

    March 11, 2008 — Nancy Pelosi tells Boston TV that a Clinton-Obama or Obama-Clinton ticket is “impossible.”

    “I think that the Clinton administration has fairly ruled that out by proclaiming that Senator McCain would be a better Commander in Chief than Obama. I think that either way is impossible,” she said.

  • I’m a 69 year old republican who last voted for a democrat when Kennedy ran. I voted for Obama in the IL primary and plan to vote for him in the general, BUT not if Hillary is on the ticket. I just can imagine anyone in their right mind wants to hear Hillary and Bill whining for another eight years. Besides if she really wants to promote her agenda, the floor of the US Senate is more powerful than the VP slot… she should ask for Senate Majority Leader post instead. She should act like all the other candidates who lost and step back gracefully after congratulating Sen Obama for winning!

  • This is simple, people–a conflation of Hillary’s Hindenburg of an ego, and her need to play the power game. She will NOT turn down Obama’s offer of VP and endure her resulting, excruciating absence from the daily news cycle (her delay in answering is designed specifically to keep attention on her). And she will NOT accept the offer under any terms that don’t keep her as visible, and almost as powerful, as he is once they’re in office. And the beauty of this is that it might mean she gets to skate directly from contender to running mate without the horror of having to give a concession speech like a traditional candidate.
    Ah, she’s not a traditional candidate, you say. Mule piss. They’re ALL traditional candidates. Because they all think they AREN’T. See how that works? You can be a pandering, repetitive, tearing-up-on cue, “we landed under sniper fire and ran to our cars” declaring egomaniac with a decades-long history of nepotism and curruption, and still think you’re the one destined to walk into the Oval.

  • Governor Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas brings more to the table than Senator Clinton of New York.

    Even lthough Sebelius shares Clinton’s demographic – White, Female, 60 – she has more leadership experience, the ability to unite, early loyalty to Obama, and a particular lack of Bill Clinton baggage for Obama to haul around and explain to the electorate.

    All the positives. None of the negatives.

    Why on earth would Obama choose Clinton when so many other qualified candidates – not fixed on subtle sabotage, threats, blackmail, and passive aggression – exist?

    Why would Obama pick a negative, soul-sucking, black hole when so many other rays of light exist?

  • Is there a way to express your opinions in a civil way?
    You use the b….. word and many others on Hillary and you say she is talking though?
    Let´s reverse that.
    Show some civility if you expect civility in return.
    Language reflects excatly who you are.

  • Also Jen – what does SC stand for?

    I don’t know why, but for some reason, spelling out the Supreme Court just seems so arduous! Thus my handy dandy, yet incomprehensible shortening. 😉

  • To Steve T who said:
    “How will the voters in West Virginia, Kentucky and rural Pennsylvania who voted against Obama respond to putting a white woman in a subordinate position to a black man? Somehow, I doubt it would make them more likely to vote for Obama.

    Not that Clinton has demonstrated that she is able to be subordinate . . . .”

    Wow, you’re certainly bound for a career in diplomacy. Klassy. Can’t wait to join up with your side of the Democratic Party.

    Actually, I believe the term would be “Running Mate.”

  • Clinton’s own website, along with polls being conducted by all the major news organiozations, are all pointing to the hardcore Hillistines who are saying that it doesn’t matter whether she’s picked for VP or not—they’re going to defect to McCain in November, regardless of what it does to the country.

    So the question I’d pose to Everett is this—given the rabid anti-Hillary mentality on the Right, would picking someone other than Hillary make the millions of disenfranchised Republicans in this country more likely to abandon McCain for Obama on November 4?

  • Steve: I don’t know. That was the question I was trying to interrogate. I was posing an intellectual exercise to the group.

    Do we have data showing how Indys/Centrists Repubs would vote vis a vis Obama/Clinton vs. Obama/Canidate X, Y, Z?

    If the data is there, I’m all ears.

  • 140,000,000 potential voters.
    104,000,000 voters who didn’t vote in the primary.

    How many of those voters are leaning towards Obama?

    How many of those voters are definitely voting for McCain?

    How many of those voters HATE Hillary?

    Is the Obama campaign better off risking the alienation of the die-hard Hillary coalition if it means attracting a bigger chunk of that remaning 104,000,000 voting block?

    The number of potential voters in each presidential election often break their political affiliation int near-equal thirds, and elections are often decided by the indies. Imperfect, I know, but imagine: about 47 mllion indies. Would not having Hill on the Dem ballot attract them more than having her on the ballot? Would all 17 mill Hillary supporters in the primaries bolt and not vote for Obama? I doubt it, but some might. And I really think whoever’s a WATB about Clinton’s exile from the ballot wil be MORE than balanced out by indies (and even some republicans) who like Obama, none of whom will be more inclined to vote for him with Clinton, and some of whom would be hesitant to vote for him if he included Clinton.

    So really, people who voted in the primaries might feel more emotionally invested, but I think having Hillary on the ticket as VP is more of a risk than a reward. Not to mention the more obvious debatable points – Obama probably doesn’t feel comfortabl with the vitriol spewed by her campaign, she’s made it clear she thinks McCain is a superior candidate to Obama, SHE STILL HASN’T EFFIN’ CONCEDED, etc.

  • Mr. Magoo:

    How many of those voters are leaning towards Obama?
    How many of those voters are definitely voting for McCain?
    How many of those voters HATE Hillary?

    That’s the question, now, isn’t it. I would posit that your perception Would be that number one and three vastly outnumber question 2.

    Ergo, the request for hard data.

    I do, however, fully agree with your 1/3 model. History tends to bare this out.

  • Do we have data showing how Indys/Centrists Repubs would vote vis a vis Obama/Clinton vs. Obama/Canidate X, Y, Z?

    Not yet. SurveyUSA did battleground state polls with various VP pairings for McCain and Obama, but they didn’t polltest Obama-Clinton. Either they thought it was rude to do so before she conceded, or thought a “dream ticket” was implausible. Or both.

  • Thanks TR. Do you know the results of the ones they did do? Can you post a link. I think that would be an important piece of the conversation.

  • I guess, ultimately, what it all comes down to is this:

    Will Obama attract more Independent Voters with or without Clinton.

    Now, I know, that the members of this blog are probably going to say without. However, let’s look at the data with which you arrive at this hypothesis.

  • Multiple services, including BBC and Reuters, are now reporting that Clinton will concede on Friday, thus ending her campaign. So that part of the equation seems resolved, Mr. Magoo.

    As for the greater variables in this political polynomial, I don’t think that there’s any empirical evidence one way or the other. But this is what we do have:

    It is a known variable that a large portion of the Right really “has it in” for the Clintons. Some reasons are respectably valid; others are so wingnutty as to be worthy of an entire season on SNL. Maybe two seasons.

    It is an equally-known variable that a good many Americans will not vote for Obama, period. Many on the issue of race, and many on the issue of Clinton not being handed her “coronation” as “The Inevitable One.”

    A third just-as-known variable is the collection of gaffes, subtle hints, and vagaries that culminated in the “Kitchen Sink Strategy” and its equally-distorting tactic of arguing for 100% representation of the FL/MI delegations at Convention—even though she knew full well from the beginning that the best-case scenario would be either of two 50% solutions. The mis-steps that mortally wounded the Clinton campaign would be just as fatal in a general election campaign. She couldn’t even control her husband’s own outbursts when SHE was the candidate—could she do so if she was only the bottom half of the ticket?

    On the other hand, there is a strongly-suggestive variable that many Republicans are willing to go to almost any lengths to prevent a McCain presidency—and an equally-suggestive variable that Independents are adamantly against McCain’s policies, both foreign and domestic.

    Then, there are the outliers; nominal and peripheral concepts that suggest the “alternative” voters may be more likely to either (1) embrace an Obama presidency on the mere grounds that it represents the greatest potential for a divergence from the status quo, or (2) reject a McCain effort on purely philosophical grounds. These “outlier” groups will include the Greens (Nader’s not even their candidate this year, and they seem to be leaning more toward Libertarian ideals), the Libertarian movement itself (which will draw more strength from McCain’s dangerously-limited forces), and the greatest outlier-variable of them all—the Ron Paul people.

    Nothing, to-date, is actually empirical, but all of the potentials are present that could identify Obama as a true builder of bridges—and McCain as nothing more than a surly little, snaggle-toothed, knuckle-dragging bridge troll.

    One more measure to consider—what are the historical precedents for telling the nominee who his VP has to be?

    Other than Cheney telling KG43, that is….

  • We might also add this from Fred Barnes—granted, it’s just an opinion, but the plausibility seems to hold up….

    She wants to be his vice presidential running mate, no question about that. She is trying to force herself on the ticket. Obama has won an incredibly impressive victory in winning this nomination over the Clinton machine, which was thought to be a lot more formidable than it turned out to be, but it was still pretty formidable. But it’s clear that she’s trying to preempt him from picking his own vice presidential running mate, and this will be the first test of Obama as the nominee, whether he allows her to force her way on the ticket as his running mate, something we know he doesn’t want. It is well-known he doesn’t want that, and it will be an interesting test. And then, of course, he’s got McCain, and he’s got to prove himself plausible for commander in chief.

    How “presidential” can Obama show himself to be if he comes out of the gate—even before the Convention convenes in August—looking like he can be bullied into a decision by Clinton? That brings us back to a Clinton “Presidency-by-Proxy” scenario.

  • Thanks TR. Do you know the results of the ones they did do?

    Right here on their front page: http://www.surveyusa.com/

    It’s interesting fodder for speculation, but as you can see, it’s largely just a reflection of name recognition. The lesser names are only meaningful to see how they help in their home states where they’re known.

    As a result, Edwards leads the pack for the Dems by a mile. If they added Hillary at this point, and they will soon I’d bet, then I have no doubt she’d edge even him out by a wide margin as well.

  • There’s another way of making this decision other than look at polls that are 5 months out from the general election and probably aren’t that reliable.

    What if the nominee considered principle, his values, and who he honestly thought would compliment his ticket best?

    Being bullied or manipulated into a decision would show a lack of strength and principle and therefore would ultimately hurt Obama more than if he offended some fervent portion of Clinton’s supporters.

    OK, Everett, I’d still vote for the Democratic ticket, but I’d be disappointed if Obama capitulated to the pressure.

    Actually, depending upon how he handles rejecting Clinton’s moves, I could actually see it improving his poll numbers with certain segments of independents. It’s going to be tough though.

  • TR – Great data. Thanks for turning me on to the site. Much appreciated. Worthy of note, those polls were taken in mid-May. We’ll watch to see where the numbers go. I guess we can give up on Kansas and Nebraska. Oh well.

    You said –

    “If they added Hillary at this point, and they will soon I’d bet, then I have no doubt she’d edge even him out by a wide margin as well.”

    So how do you think she would impact the really close sates (like MO and WI)?

  • Do we have data showing how Indys/Centrists Repubs would vote vis a vis Obama/Clinton vs. Obama/Candidate X, Y, Z? — Everett, @82

    Not polling data, but anecdotal evidence (from my own acquaintance)

    Of the *recent* Indy/Repub crossovers that I know (in VA, we don’t register our political affiliation, so it’s sometimes hard to tell who’s what), that is, those who voted in the Dem primary this spring:
    The males are hooked strictly on Obama; will not vote for Obama/Clinton ticket, because the Clinton-hatred is too ingrained. The females are a different story; they were willing to crossover for a woman, rather than for a Dem. Clinton as VP has zero appeal, especially with a black in the coveted position. So both the males and the females are likely to revert to the comfort of what they’ve always been — Republicans — if for different reasons.

    To make that short: the females are going back no matter what. The males only if we have Clinton on the ticket.

    The crossovers from ’06 (the only ones I know in that group are males)… I think they’d be, pretty much, like myself; they’d vote for the Dem ticket, no matter who’s on it, though they’d not be too happy with Clinton. But they’ve had those extra two years to assimilate, to make friends in the Dem “community”…

  • Libra:

    Well, of the four Republicans I’ve spoken to here in Miami, 1 voted for Obama and will no matter what. The other three said they voted for Hillary but would not vote for Obama.

    So, it’s all kind of a wash at this point.

    Perhaps we’re blowing this whole “everyone hates Hillary” thing a bit out of perspective.

  • The coup by superdelegates to support Obama over Hillary is strictly to break the power grip that the clintons have on the DNC. That’s it. They hope Obama is electable, but if he loses big(which is really likely), the Clintons will be on the throne of the DNC and making sure to note those superdelegates that abadoned her.

  • I would like to see Hillary use the exact same techniques against the Republicans, as Senate Majority leader. Now that would be a tailor made position for her – dump Harry, he did good enough keeping the seat warm, but it is time to let a pro take over.

    Hillary will have the Republicans scurry for the corners. Now wouldn’t that make Mary very happy? 🙂

  • Yeah seriously wasnt it clinton who bombed all those orphanages or got impeached? How come noone talks about Whitewater anymore?

  • I totally agree with krkyoldhag that Caroline Kennedy should be strongly considered as a choice for VP. An extremely well-known democrat female with a long long career/life of intelligence, grace, and influence.

  • Many of those who post on these bulletin boards are breathtakingly uninformed and excessively mean-spirited. I am very excited about Obama’s candidacy, and I am so glad I voted for Hillary. The Clintons, like everyone else in the world, have made personal and professional mistakes. But they governed effectively(yes THEY), in the middle of the same silliness from the right that they’ve been dished from the left these past few months. You people who bash the Clintons are a cowardly lot. And in particular the Obama supporters who bash the Clintons. Barack wouldn’t even have this opportunity if it weren’t for Bill Clinton. It’s a fact of which Obama is keenly aware–so much so that he paid tribute to President Clinton by using Clinton’s stump speech and campaign strategy from the 1992 election. It’s disappointing that Obama’s people played the race card in South Carolina(and yes the memos about this DO exist), and it’s disappointiong that they exploited Bobby Kennedy’s death last weekend while hypocritically charging that Hillary was to blame. But I believe Barack will ultimately rise above the immature behavior of his staff and supporters, get elected with or without Hillary on the ticket, and he will be a two-term President, one of our greatest. Long live Barack and Hillary. God Bless America. Keep the Faith.

    Sincerely,

    Ted Tyson
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin

  • If Obama picks Billary for VP I will be disgusted. I’m a Republican and I admit that I am going to vote for McCain. The thing is – I respect Obama and even though I disagree with many of his views and opinions, I understand his message and would not be horrified if he won the Presidency. Ultimately, I believe that both he and McCain both have the Countries best interest in heart and are not self serving like the Clintons. If she is on the ticket, I think more people that want change would vote against the ‘dream team’ because she is just so much of a manipulator and liar. I think that even the most staunch Democrat can only throw ‘McBush’ comments around and really doesn’t have much to say against McCain’s integrity, just like I don’t have anything bad to say about Obama’s. You will have more Republicans that were on the fence storm the booths and vote against Hillary than for Obama – and I really think that the Independents and Democrats that are leaning towards Obama may just stay home That’s just my honest opinion.

  • TR, as I said the other day, I’d be very surprised if SUSA or someone else (I’d rather it be SUSA!) isn’t already polling Obama vs. McCain with a Clinton-as-VP variable (and you’re right–they couldn’t do it while she was still running).

    It will be extremely interesting to see how it comes out. Past polls have indicated that a percentage in the upper 40s of Americans would not vote for Hillary Clinton for president under any circumstances, but those polls are dated after the events of this spring, and things may be different if she’s in the second chair. I’m quite curious to see how she comes out as Obama’s VP in new polls vs. some of the other people Obama is reportedly considering.

  • As I understand it, Obama’s wife detests the Clintons, and there are just too many questions about their ethics. HRC will not be the VP.. my guess is either Wes Clark or Jim Webb.

    The general election will come down to this: Americans are unhappy about Iraq and want a real answer to the healthcare mess. But, do they trust Obama, a black ultra-liberal with ties to a blantantly racist church with the reigns of power ??

    My prediction: McCain wins a close one.

  • As I understand it, Obama’s wife detests the Clintons, and there are just too many questions about their ethics. HRC will not be the VP.. my guess is either Wes Clark or Jim Webb.

    The general election will come down to this: Americans are unhappy about Iraq and want a real answer to the healthcare mess. But, do they trust Obama, a black ultra-liberal with ties to a blantantly racist church with the reigns of power ??

    My prediction: McCain wins a close one.

  • Clinton to suspend? On Saturday HRC will officially suspend her campaign for the presidency. She is incredible. What they are thinking? I think that this is the first time that a candidate who loss the primary is pushing to be in the ticket. She is like a vulture waiting for the opportunity to be fed. Her comments about Kennedy assassination was enough, and her excuses not enough but she is still waiting for something to happen and that is the reason she will not drop out, she suspended her campaign for better opportunity like a vulture. The candidate who won has the choice to pick the VP and the Clinton’s Gang are claiming a right that is not theres. The Obama/Clinton ticket will be a nightmare, and Bill Clinton will be a guillotine to close to our next President. We want a new era, we don’t want to go back to the past, we don’t want any more Monica Lewinsky cases. We want honor and prestige back to the White House.

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