Obama causes stir with talk of Reagan, JFK

Barack Obama sat down with the editors of the Reno Gazette-Journal the other day for a fairly lengthy interview, most of which was interesting, but hardly ground-breaking. The senator caused a bit of a stir, though, when we learned yesterday about his perspective on some recent presidents.

“I don’t want to present myself as some sort of singular figure. I think part of what is different is the times. I do think that, for example, the 1980 election was different. I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. They felt like with all the excesses of the 60s and the 70s and government had grown and grown but there wasn’t much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. I think he tapped into what people were already feeling. Which is we want clarity, we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing.” […]

“I think Kennedy, 20 years earlier, moved the country in a fundamentally different direction. So I think a lot of it has to do with the times. I think we are in one of those fundamentally different times right now were people think that things, the way they are going, just aren’t working.”

My hunch is the comments are likely to be yet another in a series of Rorschach tests. Obama critics will perceive these comments as being complimentary of Reagan — hardly a good idea during a Democratic primary — and lending credence to conservative frames, such as his reference to “the excesses of the 60s and the 70s.”

Obama fans will hear/see the same comments, and come to a different conclusion — that Obama was merely characterizing this election as one in which the country is ready for a fundamental change in the way Washington works (or doesn’t), as voters were in 1960 and 1980. As Greg Sargent noted, “In this context, Obama is presenting himself as a potentially transformational figure in opposition to Hillary, who, Obama has been arguing, is unequipped to tap into the public’s mood due to her coming of age in the sixties and her involvement in the political battles of the 1990s.”

The entire hour-long interview is online here, so readers can get a sense of context, but I looked at this from a couple of different angles.

First, I think Obama could have probably been more cautious in his references to “excesses.” If, for example, he’d said “perceived excesses,” the comment would probably have been far less contentious.

Second, it sounded to me as if Obama were criticizing Bill Clinton far more than he was praising Reagan and Kennedy. It was subtle, but Obama seemed to be saying that Clinton, while successful, didn’t fundamentally change the political landscape (and, by implication, Obama probably wants people to believe that Sen. Clinton wouldn’t either). Whether there’s any real appetite in Democratic circles for this kind of criticism of Bill Clinton remains to be seen.

Matt Stoller argued:

There are many reason progressives should admire Ronald Reagan, politically speaking. He realigned the country around his vision, he brought into power a new movement that created conservative change, and he was an extremely skilled politician. But that is not why Obama admires Reagan. Obama admires Reagan because he agrees with Reagan’s basic frame that the 1960s and 1970s were full of ‘excesses’ and that government had grown large and unaccountable.

Maybe, but I’m not sure of that’s what Obama really meant. Indeed, with the added context of the Kennedy part of the quote, it’s not at all unreasonable to think Obama was talking about Reagan’s political skills/victories, his ability to bring voters into the GOP fold, and his success at tapping into the public’s attitudes of the time.

(For what it’s worth, in 2006, Obama noted on “Meet the Press” that Reagan “was a very successful president, even though I did not agree with him on many issues.” Obama cited Reagan having “transformed the culture and not simply promoted one or two particular issues.” It sounded more like praise for Reagan’s ability to generate broad change, and less like an endorsement of Reagan’s worldview.)

So, that’s the debate. What say you?

Update: Yglesias offers a counter to Stoller’s take:

Obama is pretty unambiguously claiming that much as Reagan was a friendly, popular face of a much more conservative governing agenda than the country had seen before, he thinks he can be the friendly, popular face of a much more liberal governing agenda than the country has seen before.

Obama thinks — as do a lot of people — that the country may be primed for big change in 2008 the way it was in 1980 and that he’s the kind of person who can sell the country on that sort of big change. He may be wrong, either in his assessment of the times or in his assessment of himself, but those are exactly the sort of claims you want to see a leader make on behalf of itself.

I certainly hope that we’re ready for a less venal, less greed-headed, more socially and ecologically conscious path. I’m just sorry it took 25 years of Reaganism to get there.

  • I’ll even start by ignoring the “excesses” slam (although Obama has said things in the past to suggest that he is not exactly supportive of the counterculture), and by assuming he is not necessarily supporting Reagan’s policy specifics.

    The quote still reinforces perfectly my qualms about Obama. He sees himself in the same general style of a Reagan – “clarity,” “optimism” – things that are about style rather than substance. Reagan’s “clarity” was borne of a simple-mindedness. His “optimism” was denial of reality (no homeless in America? ketchup is a vegetable for determining if children have nutritious meals?) That Obama would suggest that as a good thing, a positive comparison, is disconcerting. Reagan’s “fundamental change” was accomplished by running against government — and I’ve seen evidence of Obama (and his supporters) trying to run against Washington, rather than just against Bush, and I think that is dangerous for progressives who believe government can be a force for good.

    Clinton may not be as inpiring or fun to listen to, but she is exceedingly grounded in the realities of governing. Obama has bought too much of his own Hope Hype. As a President, if people would take off the blinders and look at reality, Reagan was a disaster that lasted for a generation after his term ended. I’d rather not have another President whose biggest speciality is a jovial quip. If that’s what Obama wants to be, I’ll continue to pass.

  • Obama’s main point is pretty clear–that the times are ripe for real change and that he is best positioned to be that change agent–like Reagan and JFK before him. But if he continues to mouth extreme right talking points regarding things like alleged “excesses of the 60s and 70s” I am going to be inclined to shift my current leanings towards Obama towards Clinton or Edwards. Just like Clinton, he needs to be careful how he says things. I will give him a pass on not necessarily praising the first Clinton presidency (as long as he is not really criticizing it) because to do so might lead some people to think “well, Obama has praised the first clinton presidency, and the second potential clinton presidency couldn’t be much different than the first, so if the first was good the second should be,” which really would not help his candidacy.

  • I think it’s conservative pandering (I think he’s starting to think about how he’s going to sell himself in the general- he’s been too focused on beating other Democrats and is realizing he might not sail through the general), and I don’t think it’s going to help him.

    Regarding any implicit Clinton criticism, I think Obama should stop criticizing the Clinton White House as if those people were a bunch of idiots and failures. It’s just not true. If they failed in their stated intentions and goals, to the extent they failed it was due to conservative opposition that liberals and Dems as an entire, broad movement were unprepared to really see realistically or to confront. It hardly makes sense to lay it all on the shoulders of the Clintons, as if they were the ones who should have seen 10 years or 20 years before Bill’s terms what was going to happen so they could, for examples, somehow take steps to prevent the conservative intellectual/think-tank movement that had been forming up for 40 30 years (by then) or so from having influence, Rush Limbaugh’s show from being on the air, conservative/moderate dissatisfaction with Democratic handling of various issues, etc.

    It’s just not reality, so he should pick a different tack in criticizing or commenting on them.

  • I have no problemo with the comment. Like him or not (I did not) Reagan created a governing coalition and was able to move the country in a new direction — his direction.

    Obama’s canadacy presents this type of opportunity, and for the better this time.

    Bill did alot of good making the govt run right (including making student loans more user friendly…Thanks Bill). But man I still remember election night 1994 when the local Dog catcher got swept out of office just for being a Dem.

    Obama, to me, represents that bridge to the next century Gore spent time talking about in 2000 and an opportunity to form a new and effective governing coalition which we urgently need.

  • “I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America.”

    Yes he did, and clearly for the better. Needless to say, Obama has the character to state that fact. I like this guy better every day… even though his policies are very much left of center, he does not seem like he is a partisan and realizes to get things done, he will have to work with both sides — much like Reagan did.

    Statements like this will piss off the partisan sheep like zeitgeist, but is an attractive quality for the moderates and independents he will have to garner to win the election.

  • Yesterday Tom Cleaver claimed that Hillary and Bill were in no way members of the counter culture of the 1960s and 1970s. Here we have Obama blaming the 60’s and 70’s for their excesses as preceived by Ronald Reagan. If Hillary and Bill weren’t part of the excessive counter culture, then they can hardly be blamed for it, now can they?

    If the implication of Obama’s comments above is that America is ready for a massive shift in direction, I’d say he’s rather confused. Boy George II has spent the last seven years dragging America off in a new direction of corporatist-statism, hollowing out the military and civilian federal governments and transferring billions to his contractor croynies (just as a note, I’m a Government Contractor). It hasn’t been a good thing.

    If anything, we need to get America back on track.

    If the implication of Obama’s comments is that he’s like Reagan, but going in a different direction, I would just point out that Reagan did NOTHING to advance his proposed platform of conservatism:
    Balanced Budget – No,
    Disband the Education Department – No,
    Overturn Roe-vs-Wade through the courts, constitutional amendment or other – No,
    etc., etc., etc..
    So Obama would be saying that he’ll make us want to go in a different direction but actually achieve nothing.

    My wingnut brother likes to point out that Reagan ended the Soviet Union. I point out that he did that for all of America, not for conservatism. And of course Condi and BGII are trying to reverse the gains by midwiving the resurection of an authoritarian Russian Federation.

    And if Obama gets to claim to be a new JFK, can Hillary claim to be an LBJ without Obama surrogates crying racism?

    Re #4. Fargus, if you don’t campaign on your policies than you don’t get a mandate from the voters. If Obama wants to be a black Ronald Reagan, he’ll end up being just as successful pushing his agenda.

  • What I mean is, if Obama thinks that had he been in the Clintons’ shoes he would have somehow leapt back into the past, and prevented the consolidated conservative opposition (especially in congress) they faced from taking shape, then he has a reason to criticize them. He can’t say that, so all he can really say is something like “They tried the best with what they had, but up against the machine they were facing, it just wasn’t enough.” An assessment like that would make me believe a lot more in Obama and have a lot more confidence in him as a leader.

    To his credit, he’s that guy on a lot of things, but it’s disappointing that he’s still not on something like this. And it’s a thing to irk liberals, too. What, is he saying that the Clintons are not smart, or that they didn’t try? We know it to be quite the contrary.

  • Obama: “(Reagan) put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. They felt like with all the excesses of the 60s and the 70s and government had grown and grown but there wasn’t much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating.”

    This statement is really troubling. The “different path” Reagan put us on was a return to an imaginary Golden Age that a particular segment of America that yearns for — a time portrayed by television shows like “Father Knows Best” and “Leave It to Beaver” where a woman’s place was in the home, the heathen Chinese was peculiar and a negro strove to be a credit to his race.

    I hope Obama will quickly clarify his statement and emphasize how disasterous Reagan and his Supply Side fairy tale has been for the bottom 80 percent of people in this country. Otherwise, I don’t know if I can vote for him. I was already pretty sure I wounldn’t vote for Clinton.

    I am so fucking tired of having to hold my nose and vote for someone who is slightly less odious than their opponent.

  • “My wingnut brother likes to point out that Reagan ended the Soviet Union.”

    Yes, by continuing the policies started by JFK–force them to spend money they did not have on military/space/technolological programs.

  • In comment 7, I was talking about the right-wing creation and funding of “think tank” intellectual institutions in the United States to counter the influence of liberal intellectuals about 30 years before Bill Clinton took office. This was an intentional undertaking by the conservatives.

    I don’t know how the number “40” crept in there before the “30.” I thought I deleted it.

  • The “excesses” of the 60s can only be seen as such when compared to the utter torpor of the 50s when stultifying conformity was considered a virtue. Said excesses also included the Civil Rights movement and the passage of the Civil Rights Act. I wonder if Obama is willing to blithely repudiate all the progressive cultural change that occured for women and African-Americans during the 60s and still try and position himself as the “change candidate”. Invoking the empty suit, Reagan, and his equally empty sloganeering is simple pandering to the moderate rightwing. Exactly what “trajectory” is Obama referring to in the interview? Does he mean the trajectory of the aggregate national debt which has increased to nearly 10 trillion dollars mainly under three Republican presidents starting with his precious Reagan? Perhaps it’s the trajectory of the country’s defense budget which is currently the highest of any nation in the history of civilization? What of the trajectory of positive social change that occured in the much-maligned 60s, the benefits of which acrue to women and minorities to this day? Or is he saying not all trajectories are created equal?

    Using Obama’s calculus I suppose he could say the American Revolution was a tad “excessive”.

  • This statement is really troubling. The “different path” Reagan put us on was a return to an imaginary Golden Age that a particular segment of America that yearns for — a time portrayed by television shows like “Father Knows Best” and “Leave It to Beaver” where a woman’s place was in the home, the heathen Chinese was peculiar and a negro strove to be a credit to his race.

    SteveT, I think you’re overly minimizing him. I think it was stuff like the 1960s-early 90s crime wave that motivated swing voters who went for Reagan; media portrayal of the Warren court criminal justice decisions and the war on drugs consolidated that perception. In the public’s mind, cutting back on the welfare state or fighting affirmative action were made to be part and parcel with getting tougher on crime. I totally appreciate what you’re saying and where you’re going with it, and I know your statement may be a more accurate portrayal as to some people, but I think you may just be a little too unfair in ascribing that more extreme cast to what I think Barack is describing (the more moderate phenomenon). I just think it helps out a lot, during a lot of times, if in these discussions politicians (and us) are both really clear in describing things.

  • Swan @#7 says …I think it’s conservative pandering… well, I think it worked for JRS Jr @, so maybe Obama isn’t that far off target…after all, all you have to do is stroke a rethug and they are yours for life…see BGII..Mittmus..

  • Oh Jr, please do enlighten us — what did Reagan give us that was “clearly for the better”? I can’t say I saw it.

    I did see a lot of family farmers lose their land under Reagan, including a friend of mine whose dad was one of many who committed suicide during that period. He gave us more indicted cabinet members than anyone I can recall. He gave us the largest debt in US history – until W of course. He essentially killed the labor movement, clearing the way for the unbridled corporate excesses to follow. He blew billions on Star Wars, which was little more than corporate welfare for big defense contractors. He gutted OSHA, he gutted food inspection, he gutted childhood nutrition programs — he can rightly be called the Grandfather of E.Coli Conservatism. He engaged in the blatently unlawful and immoral Iran-Contra shell game.

    What is it that I am missing? That he nonetheless snowed us into believing it was “morning in America” and that made us feel falsely good about what his administration was doing? That is a good thing?

  • SteveT, I think you’re overly minimizing him.

    Unfairly minimizing Barack, I mean, not Reagan! 🙂

    Reagan may have wanted that “different path” that is more like what you describe, but what Reagan was actually able to sell and what a lot of voters actually thought they were buying from him is I think more like what I describe, and I think that’s what Barack was trying to describe to.

    Also, and kind of tangential, I want to point out that I think the voters who were disappointed with, for example, what the Warren court decisions (or whatever) did to the war on crime were right to an extent, but that it was the media blowing the situation out of all proportion that made the nation err too far in the wrong direction in responding to it.

  • I think all you have to do is compare Obama-the-orator with Obama-unplugged to see that while there is plenty of lofty – if fairly undefined – vision and inspirational fervor coming from the former, it is the latter who, if president, will determine how – or if – things get done; I am less than confident that Obama is prepared for the nuts-and-bolts of governing, and I am troubled by his buying into the Reagan myth. Leaving aside the question of how much ego one has to have in order to glory in comparisons to JFK, RFK and now Reagan, there’s something else to consider.

    By the time we get to the election, there is a pretty good chance that the economy will have continued to slide, and the effects of the subprime crisis will be even worse. What we will need is someone who can dive into this mess with a true understanding of what needs to be done to help those in the most dire straits, ameliorate the damage and set things on the road to recovery. If I want to feel better, I will take an Advil with a Zantac chaser – thanks – but as far as my government goes, I want someone who will roll up his or her sleeves and work like a dog, who will care more about the details of making things work again than which legendary hero of American political history he or she most resembles.

    And it disturbs me that Obama seems more interested in emphasizing the “Morning- in America” aspects of Reagan and fails to appreciate the damage that man did as president.

    Sorry – Obama’s not ready fro prime time.

  • “after all, all you have to do is stroke a rethug and they are yours for life…see BGII..Mittmus…”

    So true. Those morons are so brain dead and maleable, merely say the appropriate key words, over and over, and they become hyptontized or zombiefied and will salivate towards you. Regardless of whether you intend to follow through.

  • Obama is WAAAAAAAY to charmed by his own big, bright smile.

    It doesn’t matter what he ‘meant.’ What matters is how it is perceived.

    Fuck Obama….oh, izzat too excessive?

  • Yet another round of substance-free criticism that seeks to lambast Obama for supposedly using words or frames which “good” progressives should no must never be said…

    Are we that simple-minded and doctrinaire that we need to pick through anyone’s statements like this for hints that they are a secret stealth GOP terrorist.

    Especially when this point has been made numerous times by Obama and others for the past year…

    Yes, of course, words matter.

    But so does context, political history, and plain-old common sense.

    This primary season has really opened my eyes to how myopic and reactionary so much of the progressive blogosphere really is…

    (Oh no, I’ve said something which must not be said. I must be channeling Joe Klein. Get me a muzzle…)

  • I wrote: “My wingnut brother likes to point out that Reagan ended the Soviet Union.”

    bubba said: “Yes, by continuing the policies started by JFK–force them to spend money they did not have on military/space/technolological programs.”

    Actually I’d put credit for defeating the Soviet Union on Truman and the policy of containment. Sadly, no wingnut is going accept either that or your premise. So I just like to point out to him that all of America wanted the Soviet Union defeated, not just wingnuts, and if he dares to claim Democrats were secretly in love with the Marxist/Leninist state I point out to him that it’s BGII and Condi who seem to be trying to bring it back.

  • Speaking of which…Sullivan now has a post and link to his article dubbing Obama the LIBERAL Regan.

    Obama and Reagan don’t share the same upbring, outlook and political philosophy.

    One was a Conservative and one is a LIBERAL.

    There’s a difference here.

  • “Excesses” should be changed to “perceived excesses.”

    I am a liberal Dem who “participated” in the sixties and seventies. I look back on them fondly and mostly proudly. But I’m not so sure that LSD, key parties, Abbey Hoffman’s “Steal this Book”, and a political correctness that included such terms as “domestic engineer” needs to be qualified with “perceived”.

  • All this is lofty conjecture. Right now, this year, we have a chance to reverse the “fundamental change” this WH has tried to force down our throats these past 7 years, so while you’ll debate and discuss what Obama meant in his benign reflection of past political history that is, I believe, supportable by historical evidence, I will focus on the reversal of our pathway to a one-party Soviet-style republic the Bush Administration has been trying to pull off under its Rovean strategy of politicizing every democratic institution in our federal system – even the DoJ!

    Edwards, Clinton, or Obama – I will support the Democratic nominee over the madness offered up by the seemingly already moribund Republican candidacies.

    I will be focusing on how the three Dem. candidates continue to present themselves. Articulation and presentation of thoughtful ideas and reflections of our American political traditions are welcome, but I will not spend too much time blathering about the potential “meanings” of them except to hear them in the context of an election cycle. I’m all good, and I hope you’ll are too! -Kevo

  • Fargus @ 4 – but in the quotes Steve provides, isn’t that what Obama himself is suggesting people do?

    Seriously – all that was arguably good about Reagan was his optimistic rhetoric, if you’re turned on (or should I say blinded) by that sort of thing. If Obama doesn’t want people like me over-emphasizing his style, he should stop running foremost on style and “the moment” and leading a movement. Jim Jones ran a movement, too, and must have been a good leader if he could get all those folks to die with him. Me, I’d rather not have the kool-aid. If Obama wants the focus to be on his policies, then he should campaign on his policies. If he wants people to confuse him with Reagan, he should praise and glorify St. Ronnie some more.

  • “Obama and Reagan don’t share the same upbring…”

    Although, to be fair, Reagan was not a child of privilege. Not in any sense of the word.

  • Vermonter said: “Are we that simple-minded and doctrinaire that we need to pick through anyone’s statements like this for hints that they are a secret stealth GOP terrorist.”

    After the flap over Hillary’s statements about MLK/JFK/LBJ being ‘racist’ you think we can’t pick through Obama’s statements?

    Pot – Kettle

    Besides, no one here suggested he’s a secret stealth GOP terrorist. That’s just a stawman argument.

    Re Anne at #20.

    You’d think someone (Michelle maybe?) would point out to Obama that he’s comparing himself to three guys who got shot and only one of which survived because of the great work of the doctors of my school, The George Washington University. I know that at the end of the Civil War Lincoln felt the cold hand of death on his shoulder, but really Barrack, isn’t this a little unseemly?

  • “I think it’s conservative pandering”

    I don’t consider myself a conservative and have voted for candidates in both parties throughout my life. Hence I consider myself a moderate. Among the Dems, perhaps Hillary fits my ideology better than Obama, but I won’t be able to deal with the continued divisiveness and partisanship that she would track in.

  • Caution, I think, is a thing that we must abandon. The “caution” of a Congress that continues to enable a criminally-inept administration; the “caution” of a House Speaker who takes impeachment off the table (for an as-yet-to-be-explained reason); the “caution” of a Senate Majority Leader (who should actually be labeled “Majority Bleater,” to coincide with his acute sense of timidity) who lacks the intestinal fortitude to actually force a recalcitrant minority to filibuster—and people who call themselves Liberals and Progressives actually dare to suggest “caution?”

    To paraphrase Mr. Shakespeare: Caution is for those who “hold their manhoods cheap.”

    In Mr. Obama, we are offered a candidate who dares to be bold; who stands in the front and declares that “it is time.”

    Not for a continuation of the back-and-forth pendulum that American politics have become, and not to continue with “legacies” and “dynasties” that represent the culture of kings and monarchies against which this nation fought and bled—but for a change of quantum proportions that will propel this Republic into the 21st century and beyond the extremist polarization that the two dominant political parties in this nation have become.

    JFK stood his ground against the greatest threat the nation ever faced—or have so many forgotten the missiles of Cuba? Are the words “Ich bin ein Berliner” now consigned to the scrapheap? Is the technological challenge of reaching the moon now merely hearsay? Were the goals of rebuilding America’s education system and social infrastructure just a warm-and-fuzzy daydream?

    Likewise, Reagan played the “change” card when it needed playing the most—or is everyone here too young to remember the quaint colloquialism, “welfare Cadillac?” How about the pedagogical concept of “social promotion?” What about the influx of professional sports figures who, degree in hand and playing for professional franchises, had to sign their big, fat paychecks with an “X” because they never learned how to write their own names?

    I would argue that Obama is not pandering to Republican-centric values, but rather that, by choosing to not pander solely to Democrat-centric values, he is, in fact, aligning himself with American-centric values—and in so doing, he is placing the critical needs and ideals his Country—on both sides of the aisle—on a higher plane than the talkling-point ideology of his Party.

  • It’s hard for me to specify just what JFK or Reagan actually accomplished, how either of them altered our nation or the path it’s on. As opposed, say, to LBJ’s Great Society programs or Eisenhower’s Federal Highways Program.

    As with everything else post-WWII (roughly), they stand out on matters of style rather than substance. Kennedy scored (against Nixon) on TeeVee, and Reagan scored in both movies (Knute Rocke) and TeeVee (G.E. Theatre).

    Occipital lobes agree: JFK, Reagan and Obama look good on TeeVee. They also sound good, at least when they’re reading expertly crafted scripts. Not sure how they come out when we turn our frontal lobes on them, examining them critically (which is almost never).

    Given that, you’d expect John Edwards to be taken more seriously by our shallow viewing nation. He’s very good looking on TeeVee (god knows we’ve paid enough attention to his haircuts), and he sounds eloquent when he pounds out his anti-corporate message (unless you find Confederate accents annoying).

    Oh, silly me, I just let the cat out of the bag, didn’t I? Unlike the others John Edwards has anti-corporate (get ready for this) ideas. Americans have been trained for decades now to be averse to anyone anti-corporate, anyone who might promote what the obscenely wealthy denigrate as “class warfare”. And ideas? well, c’mon now, who needs that?

  • Some Clinton-era legislation was pretty good for large corporations and not too good for everyone else.

    Telecommunications Act of 1996
    Allowed the re-aggregation of T-coms. Withing three years of its passage we went from thirteen telcos to five. Also removed many of the ownership limits for broadcast stations enabling the rise of abominations like Clear Channel.

    Financial Services Modernization Act
    Passed in 1999, this act deregulated much of the banking and investment services industry. It enabled the creation of hedge fund – an investment vehicle that remains completely unregulated, bears a startling resemblance to a Ponzi Scheme and which has shown its phoniness in the recent meltdown.

    NAFTA
    Where to begin? This legislation was originated in the Bush 41 administration and Clinton pushed harder than anyone for it. It was the codification of the Republican dream of chasing cheap labor with no thought of consequences. While worker productivity in Mexico went up by nearly 60% subsequent to its passage, wages there went down 5%.
    How good was NAFTA for Republicans? In the House, two-thirds of Republicans voted for it while 60% of Democrats voted against. In the Senate, Republicans voted for it by 4 to 1 while a slim majority of Dems voted against.

    So, no, I don’t get all mushy and nostalgic about Clinton’s term in office and no I don’t want more of the same. Clinton was good on the environment, no doubt about it. He was affable, charming and witty – so is Mike Huckabee.

  • One thing I notice in all these comments is that if a key word is mentioned, i.e. MLK/LBJ or RR it gets people’s dander up. All those people who wanted to ascribe a certain meaning to Hillary’s statements when she mentioned MLK, such as that she was trying to downplay his role in the civil rights movement (i dont agree with her, but i dont think she was) are doing the same thing with Obama with the mention of Ronnie…he was an idiot, but there were lots of lemmings in this country then, as there are now, who followed him over the cliff. So, take a deep breath and let’s find out what the he$$ Obama REALLY meant by those comments…they confused me and personally, I dont think anyone should ever try to use Ronnie as an example of something positive..

  • I have seen polls of favorable vs unfavorable that say Obama has higher negatives (unfavorables) than Clinton. If “continued divisiveness” is really your problem, you may be disappointed in the amount of “unity” Obama is able to deliver. Waving the Reagan red flag in front of partisan Democrats probably not a good way to acheive party harmony, either.

  • Zetigest, the problem is you’re missing that style is substance in politics. Reagan was able ot implement a broad “conservative” agenda and change the entire culture of the country, not because of his policies, but because of a political style that opportunistically poached “reagan Dems” and was winning with independents at a time when both groups were incredibly dissatisfied with the Democratic party.

    We’re at a point in time right now where similar voters (independents and moderate republicans) are ripe for the picking, which presents a chance to mainstream progressive ideas and realign the electorate. But you can’t do that by campaigning on a laundry list of policies. The belief that you can do that is precisely what sank campaigns like Kerry’s.

    You need to offer those voters a vision of America…

    Style v substance is a false dichotomy; we all agree that political style, governing style, etc will be massively important in each candidate’s ability to pass legislation, no?

    And Anne–there is ample evidence that Obama is quite skilled in the nuts and bolts of government. We’ve gone over this. Steve Benen has linked to and quoted articles detailing this. And you continue to pretend like you didn’t read it. I no longer believe your approaching this discussion in good faith.

  • Also, I find it troubling the way Obama keeps invoking figures like JFK, MLK, and now Reagan to describe what we should expect from him. Not full of himself much now, is he? How does he assume he can assume great things just by invoking a name.

    Our current white house guy likes to compare himself to HST and FDR and Churchill. Not all of us see the validity of the comparisons.

  • Sorry, JRS JR @#31…anyone who thinks Ronnie is kool has had way too much of the kool-aid…RR is the first presidential election I got to participate in…I thought he had alzheimers at the time and lo and behold…

    My dad was an air traffic controller and found out after the fact why it’s not good to be a rethug…so, yes, I do think you are a conservative…

  • Zeitgeist,

    Are you interested in listening to a reasonably nuanced argument? Let me put it this way: What I think Obama was getting at is that Reagan changed this country in a fundamental way, whether we like it or not. Do you remember the “Reagan Democrats”? He convinced a majority of this country over to his views. Obama is not saying that he agrees with those views, merely that Reagan changed the political landscape. As I 100% committed Democrat, even I can see that. Recognizing that Reagan was transformational does not imply support.

    What Obama is getting at is that we have the opportunity to create a generation of Obama Republicans and create a governing majority that could carry our party for many years to come. He is trying to change the playing field and that is the only way to effect lasting change.

    I admire Hillary and will definitely vote for her in the general election if she is our candidate (ditto for Edwards), but I think that we have a better chance as a party to create a long term change if we choose Obama as our candidate. Hillary is possibly a safer short term bet, but Obama gives our party the opportunity for longer lasting change.

  • “My dad was an air traffic controller and found out after the fact why it’s not good to be a rethug”

    So you view is not biased? HA!

  • Exit polls after the 2004 election showed that, overwhelmingly, voters wanted a candidate with “values”. That didn’t mean they wanted a candidate with the “family values” the Republicans claim to believe in. It meant that voters wanted a candidate who has some values — principles that they hold so dear that they would rather lose an election than go against those principles.

    Like him or not (and I most emphatically do not), Bush actually believes in what he’s doing. He believes that Supply Side economics works. He believes the neocon idea that an American hegemony can force countries we don’t like to become countries we can like (provided there is a leader anointed by God on top). Bush is willing to veto anything that goes against his principles, even if it hurts his or his party’s popularity. Yes, his administration has cheated and stolen more than most, but since he believes all government is corrupt, that’s not inconsistent with his principles.

    So what do the Democratic presidential candidates believe? What issues will they refuse compromise on, even if it costs them an election?

    So far, it looks like Clinton really, sincerely believes that she should be president. Everything else can be compromised.

    Obama really, sincerely believes that he is the only person who can heal the poisonous partisan atmosphere in Washington. What he’ll do after that is kind of fuzzy.

    Edwards is really, sincerely proud of his father, who worked in a mill. Edwards will work hard to end the corporate domination of politics, but it doesn’t look like he can win over even a majority of Democrats.

    The Republican success is due, in large part, because they have had long-range plans. Twenty-five years ago, Reagan declared that we should eliminate the Inheritance Tax and Capital Gains taxes. Everyone laughed at him for being unrealistic. Twenty-five years later, the discussion isn’t whether to eliminate those taxes, but how quickly.

    What is the long-term plan of each of the Democratic candidates?

    One issue demonstrates the problem. The current system of health insurance is out of touch with the rest of the western world, it fails fully one-sixth of Americans, and it underserves even more (three quarters of Americans who file for bankruptcy do so because of what they owe for a medical crisis, half of those people actually had health coverage). And yet Clinton, Obama and Edwards all think the best solution is to bring everyone into this failing system using various methods that ultimately transfer taxpayer money to the health insurance corporations.

    So what is the next step? How do we fix the broken system?

    All we hear is the sound of crickets chirping.

  • “What Obama is getting at is that we have the opportunity to create a generation of Obama Republicans and create a governing majority that could carry our party for many years to come. He is trying to change the playing field and that is the only way to effect lasting change.”

    Great. Then let him say that, and not unfairly criticize those of us who do not necessarily find the 60s and 70s to have been “excessive” in a negative fashion by using far right talking-points. As I said previously, I understand and see clearly the point Obama is making, but if he cares to include comments that he should know many of his potential supporters might find insulting, then he runs the risk of losing some of us in the primary. Maybe he doesn’t care.

  • Seems like Obama is having the same problem with you far lefties as McCain is having with the far righties.

    When are those of both right and left fringes going to realize what you really are… Nothing but a small fraction of each party with views that are not in line with most Americans yet are causing the rediculous partisanship in Washington today that is in fact pulling America apart seams?

  • Thank you Michael. Spot on. Also Brian at 8.

    Swan at 7. Note the sentences together:

    I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it.

    The difference is that the country wasn’t ready for it. I can be okay with the 90s (I am) and still think that what was best then isn’t best now. A moderate centrist was a good thing when the electorate was as centrist as it was in the 90s. But it isn’t now. It is polarized, and a lot of that means momentum will swing our way if only we have a leader that solidifies that sentiment.

    As has been pointed out, style matters. Leading people isn’t just getting good policies out there. It is also inspiring people. Reagan inspired a generation. His impact lasts far beyond the actual term of his presidency precisely because he changed a culture. Just because you dislike the change he brought is no reason to discount the way he brought it.

    Lastly, describing people you disagree with as lemmings is more telling of your character than theirs. Sometimes I am amazed at how many people pretend they don’t know anyone who disagrees with them politically. Do you all live in liberal enclaves somewhere. I know a lot of people who are strongly conservative because they were inspired by Reagan. We disagree profoundly on the issues, but they aren’t lemmings. They usually have very well thought out political ideas. Because of that, most are leaving the sinking ship that is the current right. But you won’t when them over with technocratic liberalism, because that just assumes they already agree with you. You have to win them back by showing them a better way and convincing them that we can all be in this together.

    Sometimes I feel like there are a lot of people in both liberal and conservative camps that would much rather fight the enemy than build a coalition, much to the detriment of our republic.

  • “Twenty-five years ago, Reagan declared that we should eliminate the Inheritance Tax and Capital Gains taxes. Everyone laughed at him for being unrealistic. Twenty-five years later, the discussion isn’t whether to eliminate those taxes, but how quickly.”

    Well, to be fair, then, it was only 15 years ago that Clinton declared we should have a nationalized single payor type health insurance. And lots (especially on the right) laughed at and belittled her for being unrealistic. 15 years later this issue is now front and center and no one is laughing at or belittling any of the Dem candidates for taking the issue forward (and health compaines are now trying to come up with their own versions of such a system of health care). That is progress, and maybe this can be accomplished in less than 25 years (and running) on the inheritance tax/capital gains tax.

  • The point Obama is making is that when leaders with vision come along at times when the country is ready for a change in direction, that leader can have sweeping impact. Obviously, he thinks the country is ready and he is the man. There should be no argument that Kennedy and Reagan had such influence, but I don’t see mentioning that as an endorsement of the direction they took the country. To the contrary, the remnants of Reagan’s “vision” that lingers today is the climate he wants to change. So I see no problems there.

    As for excesses of the 60s and 70s, I can assure younger folks that they existed and I’m thankful to have survived some of the cultural variety (though it was touch and go for quite a while). Moreover, I think that any fair assessment of the times would reveal that the momentum of the counterculture overwhelmed much of the country. Change was coming faster than it could be assimilated (including many young folks who were attracted to the style and freedom of the counterculture, but never really embraced it’s soul). When reality intervened some of the idealism faded and the momentum slowed. Gradually, those who had been bowled over by it — and were threatened by it — began to find their voice. Certainly “excesses” is a republican frame, but there’s some truth to it as well. I prefer to think that the pendulum swung a bit further to the left than society as a whole could handle, much as it’s now further to the right than society can handle.

    I don’t mean to say that it was all excess; much of what was accomplished was good and necessary and became so mainstream that our kids have the luxury of taking it for granted.

  • If you want change, you need to be working to elect progressive Democrats to every legislative office from the local school board and town council all the way up to Congress, because change is not just a top-down kind of thing.

    Further, look at the change we need, and where we need it, and then look at Obama’s track record on change. It is not sweeping, it is not transformative, it is incremental. Baby steps.

    Baby steps offer a multitude of opportunities to slow down change, to protect the special interests a little bit longer, to delay until the forces that oppose change can marshal their efforts to stop it.

    Transformative change is needed on multiple fronts – and the planning for it should already be underway. Now that we have all agreed that Obama can give a kick-ass speech, can we see what his actual plans are? How he sees his policies shaping up? And please don’t send me to his website – it’s time to hear, from him, how – how – the change will come.

    Finally, someone needs to define for me what an Obama Republican is – and what it is on matters of substance that Obama offers that appeals to them – what about his philosophy, policy or plans makes Obama acceptable to Republicans?

    There’s something about his efforts to appeal to people who would ordinarily vote Republican that makes me uneasy about just how serious he is about bedrock Democratic principles, and how much of them he is willing to compromise or sell out from under us. I’ve had enough of being sold out by Democrats to last a lifetime.

  • How many “ideas” does a president really have that he or she can act upon? Franklin D. fully understood that he was the executive and that his people had the “ideas”, his so-called “liberals” with which he surrounded himself. As poor as I consider Reagan in the “ideas” business, his strength lay in his ability to sell “ideas” whether he understood them or not. All he had to do was listen to his advisors.

    Jack K. was also a great salesman as was Billy J. Dick N. was not nor is George W. Lyndon B. was, Jimmy C. was not. I am not sure if any of the above really had great ideas, the ones we remember were simply excellent salesmen. Did they have “the vision thing”? Maybe not, maybe so, but I rather doubt that vision is worth much to someone who can’t sell it in this day and age of the media domination.

    So, the question becomes, who’s the best seller in the bunch? Can Hillary sell, can O’bama, Edwards, Romney, McCain, Huckabee or someone hereto unknown? Always keep in mind “The Fireside Chats”, “Ich bin ein Berliner”, “I have a dream!”, “My fellow Amuricans” and “Tear down this wall!”.

    And P. S., consider that RWR did not win the Cold War, nor HST, nor any American. Russia cost the Soviet Union an empire.

  • Jane Hamsher http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/16/ronald-reagans-slipping-halo/ is not as gracious as some here in the comments about Obama’s comparing himself to Ronald Reagan. All the Democratic candidates talk about change. After the MSNBC debate, Rachel Maddow defined “change” saying, Hillary believes the thing that needs to be changed is that Bush needs to be out and the Democrats need to be back in there. Edwards believes the thing that needs to be changed is that the moneyed interests and the lobbyists need to be taken out of the political game. Obama believes that what needs to change is that he needs to be the president because he is a personally unifying character. Democrats are being asked whether they believe in party, in which case they should be for Hillary, if they believe in power they should be for Edwards and if they believe in personality, they should vote for Obama.

    I am not an independent voter. I believe in the traditional principles of the Democratic Party, equal rights for all, respect for our constitution, habeas corpus, economic opportunity, regulation of market excess, our natural heritage and environment, fairness, justice, and checks and balanced in government. I support Hillary Clinton because she has a long history of fighting for these principles and it is the reason why more democrats than independents vote for her. I believe that Republicans live to compromise these principles and would rather see the unifier, Barack Obama as president if they can’t beat him in a general election.

  • SteveT @ 42, I thought that was a very good comment – and I would note only that Democrats had the chance in 2004 to nominate someone who had a vision for a long-term change, not just a flash-in-the-pan movement. We rejected him. Fortunately, his 50-state strategy is managing to hold on at the DNC.

  • Bubba said:
    Great. Then let him say that, and not unfairly criticize those of us who do not necessarily find the 60s and 70s to have been “excessive” in a negative fashion by using far right talking-points. As I said previously, I understand and see clearly the point Obama is making, but if he cares to include comments that he should know many of his potential supporters might find insulting, then he runs the risk of losing some of us in the primary. Maybe he doesn’t care.

    I just watched the video again so I could see what you were getting at. His quote: “I think THEY felt like, with all the excesses of the 60’s & 70’s, and govt. had grown and grown, there wasn’t much sense of accountability…”

    He is referring to the mood of the electorate!! That is exactly the definition of the Reagan Democrat. Unfortunately for us, there were enough of them in 1980 and they pushed Reagan over the top.

    Obama is saying that the mood of the electorate in 2008 is the same. With Bush’s approval around 30%, that leaves 70% who want a different path. Obama’s message is clearly a general election message and I am convinced it will resonate with our party and disaffected Independents & Republicans, who we will need to beat the GOP in the Fall. Hillary (whom I do admire) is a much better primary candidate. She appeals to the base of our party better. But a general election is exactly that. General. EVERYONE can vote.

    I’m not saying Hillary can’t win. In this climate, she may well. But our party has a better shot of winning, and not only that, but creating a mandate if Obama is our candidate in the fall.

    The truest Democrat in the race is clearly Dennis Kucinich. But the voters took a look at his viability in the general and have said no thank you. Now we are down to three candidates who we want to face the Republicans in November. If I was betting on the race, I would put my money on Hillary. I assume on Feb. 5th, we’ll have a very good idea who will represent us in November. I will support whoever that is.

  • Over at “The Left Coaster,” they are comparing Obama to Joe Lieberman, and finding lots of similarities.

  • I think Obama did a pretty damn smart thing. Granted, he will first have to get the Democratic nomination secured, but if he does so and he can lure some Independents and progressive Republicans by saying some nice things about Reagan (which are not necessarily untrue), then why not? Besides that, its a pretty smart critique towards the Clintons. Especially since they started their political careers somewhere in those “excessive” Seventies…

  • DanP wrote:

    But I’m not so sure that LSD, key parties, Abbey Hoffman’s “Steal this Book”, and a political correctness that included such terms as “domestic engineer” needs to be qualified with “perceived”.

    DanP, it’s not a president’s job, or it shouldn’t be, to try to force people’s culture to be what he think it should be. You’re arguing for the president to be able to use his power to influence people to, say, stop playing the boardgame Monopoly if he doesn’t like Monopoly and thinks it’s a bad influence. If you think that is what government is for, you are really wrong and you are really in the wrong country for that deranged idea. The president’s job is just to handle a few aspects of what government traditionally handles (and that’s not things like what songs people should sing, what they should do with their private lives).

    Also, I should point out that a lot of the hoopla over the kind of things you point out was just that- BS, blowing the extent of things way out of proportion. It led to a situation where people in one part of the country have really wrong ideas about what another country is like and what goes on there, just because there are a few people who do certain things. Those people with the wrong perception are also not likely at all to change correct their perceptions, even when they visit the other part of the country and see what it is really like. They don’t want to tell themselves or their misguided friends that they are wrong, and that they just got taken in by hysteria. We don’t need people who are taken in by hysteria (or who are prone to being taken in by hysteria) trying to influence anything or making any big decisions for themselves, or other people.

  • “If you want change, you need to be working to elect progressive Democrats to every legislative office from the local school board and town council all the way up to Congress, because change is not just a top-down kind of thing.” — Anne @ 49

    YES! That is the only solution to our discontent with both Democrats in Congress and our presidential candidates. Someone yesterday mentioned Jefferson’s idea that “The tree of liberty must from time to time be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” The likelihood another armed revolution is remote at best, but new blood in the form of new representatives is would have a similar result.

  • It led to a situation where people in one part of the country have really wrong ideas about what another country is like and what goes on there, just because there are a few people who do certain things.

    Should be “what another part of the country is like and what goes on there.”

  • Re: the update– that’s a pretty vigorous attempt by Matt Y. to save what Obama said. Remember, here are the actual words Obama used, amounting to what can fairly be perceived as nice praise of the Reagan White House:

    “He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. They felt like with all the excesses of the 60s and the 70s and government had grown and grown but there wasn’t much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. I think he tapped into what people were already feeling. Which is we want clarity, we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing.”

    If Obama isn’t trying to get people who are conservative see him as not so unpleasant, he needs to follow this up with a qualifying statement, such as (at the mildest): “Or that’s the way Reagan’s voters saw it– that’s what they thought they were doing.”

  • Maybe it was coalition building, not pandering or ignorance? Who knoweth.

    But Reagan years were nothing to write home about and I don’t think he should have referenced them: Those years were the beginning of the effective republican media propaganda machine….and the beginning of corporate welfare under the guise of the “trickle down” theory instead of build it up, invest in infrastructure & people theory. The elderly and the infirm were hurt a lot by this sugar tongued old man and his directors. It was the beginning of the Greenspan years too, which saw the undermining of our social security system: as they robbed it to back up the federal debt and top tax reductions they instituted. Same thing Bush&Co did in 2001 when they gave a tax break to the BIG investor class…they robbed SS again to pay for it.

    People or Corporations…taka your picka

  • Reagan turned the country, Swan. You might not like it, but he did. So saying “that’s how Reagan saw it.” is adding an unneccessary and silly qualifier.

    Is it really just out of habit that we all deny the sweeping changes he made?! That’s how Reagen saw it really does mean “that is how most of America saw it”. Geeze, you would think Reagan was a nut fringe guy who DIDN’T build a lasting coalition and change the American political landscape for decades after.

  • “He is referring to the mood of the electorate!! That is exactly the definition of the Reagan Democrat.”

    Dunno if that is accurate. He is unclear and lets the presumption stand as if that were the case. As CB noted, injecting “presumed” or “alleged” would have gone a very long way here, or what Swan states in 62 above. The way it was stated leaves the reader with the impression that Obama agrees with that view.

  • The truth might hurt, but “facts are stubborn things.” For all the monstrous things he did–the extremely dirty wars in central America would be at the top of my list–Reagan was a successful president. During his eight years in office he fundamentally changed both the policy direction of the country and the political alignment of the electorate. I regret both changes, but I won’t stick my head in the sand and deny them.

    During his eight years in office, Bill Clinton survived a slow coup attempt, governed reasonably well as a Rockefeller Republican, got head, and saw his party severely weakened at the congressional and gubernatorial levels.

  • socratic_me, you have to understand that there are some folks here like Swan that hear the word “Republican” and their immdiate reaction is “bad.” These partisan sheep will forever remain in denial of what Reagan’s coalition accomplished in the ’80’s.

    This unhinged denial of the dem partisans very much reminds me of those those religious sheep who ignore the theory of evolution.

  • So, do we need another Bubble Boy President? Does it matter if the Bubble Boy is a Democrat or a Republican? They are both out of touch with reality, and reality is that being a uniter is going to be impossible when the aristocracy is ready to fight you tooth and nail. You need at least to recognize that there is an aristocracy, and you need to be willing to fight them on behalf of the rest of us.

  • You know, if Obama had talked with admiration about the transformative changes that Karl Rove brought about, you all would be clutching your chests and the veinson your foreheads would be visibly – and dangerously – throbbing.

    I have a stupid question. Why is it that Obama can’t seem to talk about his own candidacy without referring to other leaders, comparing himself to them, or suggesting that he wants to be like them? Every president has accomplished something, has effected changes – that’s what presidents do. As a Democrat, when I hear Obama talking about Reagan’s effectiveness, I’m not dispassionately looking at Obama’s cerebral analysis of the process, I’m thinking about what Reagan actually did in those 8 years – and I remember that a lot of Reagan Democrats felt snookered by his promises.

    Okay, so there’s an opinion out there that says that Obama means that he will take the Reagan process and use it to make progressive changes – but why don’t I hear Obama saying that? Well, that’s easy enough to answer – it’s because he wants the Democrats to “know” what he means without saying it – wink-wink – and he wants the Republicans to “think” that if they’ve been pining for Reagan, he’s their man. He may think it’s possible, but when someone thinks he can be all things to all people, disappointment will be the emotion we become intimately acquainted with in an Obama administration.

    I will vote for him if he’s the nominee, but I will do it with some disappointment and without much enthusiasm, or trust.

  • Swan said: it’s not a president’s job, or it shouldn’t be, to try to force people’s culture to be what he think it should be.

    That certainly was not my argument. But culture was one reason people voted for Reagan. All I was saying is that there were examples of excess that needn’t be qualified by the word “perceived.”

  • So if Obama is such a “uniter,” why is this dogfight going on around the blogosphere? (They are having fun with this at places like Redstate, BTW).

  • socratic_me@64 said:
    …Geeze, you would think Reagan was a nut fringe guy who DIDN’T build a lasting coalition and change the American political landscape for decades after…

    Well, duh, he was a nut fringe guy….and really , that lasting coalition is really not something to be proud of…unless you think it’s okay for the top 1% to dance on the other 99…

    And to Jr@41, actually, I grew up in a house where my parents negated each others vote….they were not particulary vocal about their polital view but I still remember my mother’s dismay when I came home from school with my latest art project…a straw boater with a “Nixon” hat band (she supported Humphrey)…I grew up with the best of both worlds, but with the changes that Reagan introduced to the GOP and the country my dad finally learned that enough was enough…hard lesson to learn…

  • There’s something about his efforts to appeal to people who would ordinarily vote Republican that makes me uneasy about just how serious he is about bedrock Democratic principles… -Anne

    I believe his record, especially in the Illinois Senate, illustrates he will hold to Democratic principles.

    I especially like his work on behalf of the accused requiring that all homicide interrogations be recorded and his drive for transparency in government.

  • Hey, Obama’s right! Bill Clinton didn’t change anything, other than there was (D) behind the name of a president for 8 years and he was the first Democrat to get re-elected since Roosevelt. Big frickin’ deal. He and Carter were merely blips in the Republican dominance of the past 40 years.

    I’m still waiting to see that list of Actual Accomplishments That Helped People from you Clintonistas out there.

    And like it or not, we do all still live in the shadow of Reagan, who was as transformative in his impact as FDR was – unfortunately.

    All the interview demonstrates to me is that when Obama leaves the room, the average IQ there drops to room temperature. He’s at least as intellectual as Kennedy was (unlike Bill, who is merely Very Facile).

  • Danp (#26) said: But I’m not so sure that LSD, key parties, Abbey Hoffman’s “Steal this Book”, and a political correctness that included such terms as “domestic engineer” needs to be qualified with “perceived”.

    As someone who was actually there in the 60s, and who participated in many (but fortunately not all) of the “excesses,” I would agree with Dan, and would list further the idiocy of my old comrades who became The Weatherman, and the overall attitude that came to be defined as “politically correct thinking.” From the vantage point of 20/20 hindsight, I don’t think that the drug-taking accomplished anything positive. Hell, by 1969, when I saw someone with long hair, the onus was on them to prove themself “my brother,” rather than assuming the outer style had any connection to inner content.

    As with all movements, when you release the pendulum from an extreme as far to once side as the 50s were, it’s going to swing waaaaay over to the other side before it gets anywhere close to a “happy mean”.

    Oh, and I didn’t see anything in Obama’s interview that made any connection of the Clintons with anything in the 60s. Indeed, this is a “Rorshach test” for most of you Clintonistas – and it’s one you’re flunking by focusing on the trees and missing the forest.

  • Anne Said: “Why is it that Obama can’t seem to talk about his own candidacy without referring to other leaders, comparing himself to them, or suggesting that he wants to be like them?”

    That appears to be his argument. He is the “leadership” candidate.

    And you’re not!

  • When LBJ signed the Voting Rights and the Civil Rights Acts, he all but guaranteed a half century of prresidential nebbishes, just as Lincoln did a century earlier.

    The only two presidential “heroes” – to most Americans, if you believe polls – were JFK and Reagan, i.e., unusually photogenic TeeVee celebs with humor sufficient to undercut the pundits’ pomposity (as I said way back up there at #33).

    And we’re still left with a bunch of nervous nebbishes, too afraid to chart a course and win enough us to follow that — i.e., leadership — rather than trying to please everyone by offering nothing beyond their TeeVee images.

    The only exceptions would be Edwards and Kucinich, and in corporate America they’re about as welcome as Thomas Jefferson at a sports bar.

  • “…he thinks he can be the friendly, popular face of a much more liberal governing agenda than the country has seen before. ” That may be what he thinks, but that’s not what I got from the Reagan comment. I don’t hear him offering that kind of vision, at least not clearly enough for me to understand it as such.

    I read the Reagan statement the same way Stoller did. And it left me cold. Too much subtlety for me.

  • when i read the obama/reagan bit i thought i was reading an onion piece… when i realized obama really said it… my thoughts ran along the lines of “WTF was he thinking?!” i like obama… i admire his ability to inspire people with his words… but my reservations have to do more with does he have what it takes to begin to clean up the messes made by the bushies. i live in michigan with a very ineffective governor… governor granholm, a dem. all the dems rallied around her to get her elected… moderate r’s also joined in. everyone rallied because she talked a good game but she didn’t and doesn’t have what it takes. my fear is that obama may not be strong enough yet in his skill set to get things done. he needs to talk more about what he will do… what he has done… rather than compare himself to leaders… especially “leaders” like reagan.

  • This is not rocket science here folks.

    Reagan put together an effective governing coalition. So effective was this coalition that it elected a half-witted fool named Shrub over far better qualified people.

    As far as talking about his positions on issues, Hillary has already said that her plans and his are largely the same. So if she’s cool with his liberal street cred then so am I.

  • OK, I’m watching this, not intolerable like Reagan the great communicato was. You know what he’s like? there was a tv show, The Amazing Mrs Pritchard, I sat thru all thouse episodes too. He seems to premise his hopes for getting somethings done on the idea that politicians have a sense of shame, and that transparecy of process would engage us citizens, or at leat innocultate us a bit to the advertizing campaigns put out by whoevers ox is being gored. He’s selling himself to the local newspaper here,

    OK, he knows how sausage is made, and he thinks he can bring in people that think like him to work with him. So not The Amazing Mrs Pritchard in that respect. Mandate if he’s elected, part of my appeal is people want change. I guess i want to believe, he just said ‘paradigm’ and I didnt get that fingernails on the blackboard feeling. Obama, the great communicator.

    My feeling is, he can be so likeable, that people will listen, including the press, when he starts getting hit over the head. He knows the issues, the problem is it’s a complicated world, can he explain them to people. We’ll if he talks about mortgages and health care and education, probably. More coherent than I am anyway.

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