Obama exceeds expectations in Saturday contests

Barack Obama was expected to win yesterday’s Democratic contests, but I think it’s fair to say he exceeded expectations.

Senator Barack Obama won decisive victories over Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton in Washington, Louisiana and Nebraska on Saturday, giving him an impressive sweep going into a month when the Democratic nominating contests are expected to favor him.

The successes come just as Mr. Obama is building a strong advantage over Mrs. Clinton in raising money, providing important fuel for the nominating contests ahead. Still, the results were expected to do little to settle the muddle in the delegate race that resulted after the wave of contests last Tuesday in which the two candidates split up states from coast to coast. […]

While Mr. Obama had been expected to win the contests on Saturday, the margin of victories were surprising, particularly in Nebraska and Washington, which offered the day’s biggest trove of delegates. In both states, he captured 68 percent of the vote in caucuses, compared with Mrs. Clinton’s roughly 32 percent.

It was more or less an afterthought, but Obama also appears to have won big in the Virgin Islands, with nearly 90% support.

The Clinton campaign responded to the setbacks with a line officials had been using preemptively in recent days: “The Obama campaign has dramatically outspent our campaign in these three states, saturating the airwaves with 30 and 60 second ads. The Obama campaign has spent $300,000 more in Louisiana on television ads, $190,000 more in Nebraska and $175,000 more in Nebraska.”

All of that is, of course, true. I’m not sure, however, if it’s a compelling spin. In effect, the Clinton campaign is arguing, “We lost these states because we weren’t trying very hard.”

That may be accurate, but it leads to questions about why the Clinton campaign wasn’t making a concerted effort to win these races. At this point, every contest counts.

On a related note, Kevin Drum asked a question I’ve been pondering myself.

…I’m a little puzzled about Obama’s consistent success in caucuses, which usually seems to get chalked up to his background in community organizing. Somehow, though, that doesn’t really seem like a persuasive explanation. After all, I’m sure Hillary Clinton’s team knows perfectly well how to organize in a caucus state. And yet Obama has won every caucus state but one, most of them by wide margins. Does anybody have a good explanation for this? (And no, “Obama is teh awesome” doesn’t count as a good explanation.)

On the one hand, historically, primary victories are considered more impressive than caucus victories, in large part because more people participate in primaries. But Obama’s caucus victories certainly seem impressive, don’t they? After all, the key to winning caucuses is on-the-ground organizational strength and an effective mobilizing strategy. Obama’s been excelling in caucuses in states like Kansas and Nebraska — where there aren’t a lot of minorities or fired-up college students — by very large margins.

Before voting began last month, I was inclined to assume the opposite — that the caucuses would favor Clinton. In caucuses, turnout is generally low, and the process is guided by local party leaders and unions. It’s exactly the kind of landscape that tends to favor the establishment candidate, which, I think it’s fair to say, has been Clinton.

And yet, Obama is winning these caucuses with relative ease, while Clinton is excelling with equal ease in many big primaries. It seems counterintuitive.

(Please don’t look at this as an opportunity to say Clinton lost these caucuses because she’s evil, or Obama won because he’s amazing.)

I think that Obama’s success in caucuses is due to an Enthusiasm Gap. Obama’s supporters seem to me to be more passionate than Clinton’s.

Kind of like Ron Paul’s supporters? 🙂

Not entirely off-topic, but I think that congratulations are due to the Carpetbagger Crowd for elevating the tone of the comments to the posts about the primaries yesterday evening. That talking-to that CB gave us yesterday morning seems to have had a beneficial effect. Keep up the good work!

  • Okay, an off-the-cuff hypothesis here:

    Obama has more dedicated, fanatical supporters; Clinton has more not-paying-much-attention name recognition.

    Thus, in states where voting is a pain — where you have to go and caucus — Obama does best.

    In huge states where there wasn’t that much intensive politicking (because super Tuesday meant there was too much going on for it), and where voting is easy (ie primaries) Clinton’s name reconition caries her over.

  • The caucus environment is interactive. It seems to me that voters going into a caucus are forced to confront (or, at least, acknowledge) arguments and entreaties from the other side in a way that primary voters are not. Okie’s point about an enthusiasm gap is well taken in this context.

    One other factor that I’ve never heard discussed: By definition, everyone has to show up at a caucus. There’s no early voting. I suspect that at least some of Hillary’s edge in primaries is due to early voters who did not see Obama as viable when they voter. Certainly that was the case for many voters here in Florida. I believe it’s well-established that late-breaking voters have trended towards Obama. If this theory is correct, then Hillary’s going to start looking progressively weaker in upcoming primaries.

  • Thing is, Hillary can’t afford continuing to lose lopsidedly like this. Caucus or no, few or large delegates, these blowouts get huge air time that make upcoming contests harder to win, or even lose close and still remain competitive.

  • This is completely off topic, but I have to share and clarify a couple of comments I heard on TV this morning —

    First, President Bush said, “History takes a long time.” Classic.

    On MTP, Huckabee reported that “fried squirrel is a Southern delicacy.” For those of you outside the south, IT’S NOT TRUE!!!

  • I’d second all the previous comments and add that it might have less to do with format – caucus versus primary – and more to do with demographics. Part of the problem with a lot of Clinton victories is that they are by hairline margins (or even negative delegate margins such as Nevada). I think the momentum is clearly on the Obama side, and with Hillary fairing well only in those states where people voted early, or the demographic tends toward seniors.

  • Obama came to Nebraska, the first Democratic presidential candidate to visit Nebraska in who knows how long. In contrast, HRC basically dialed it in – – she sent Chelsea.

    We’re looking for a leader here. Chelsea Clinton is a poised young woman, but she is not, herself, a leader. Her appearance felt almost obligatory – – as in “we have to send someone, but we don’t want to waste Bill’s or Hillary’s time, so off you go, Chelsea.” In contrast, Obama took the time and the effort to tell Nebraskans that “yes, we can” make a difference with our votes. (This was the first time that Nebraska Dems had a caucus – – always before, we had to wait until May to vote, when the nominee was already a certainty.) HRC disparaged Obama’s talk of hope and change, and then backed up her attitude by telling Nebraska Dems she didn’t care how they voted. I hope she’s thinking about that now.

  • I think it comes down to strategy. Obama has competed hard in these states because he had to find a way to off-set Clinton’s huge advantages in terms of name-recognition and party machinery. Even now, the punditry expect him to get thumped in the upcoming big states. His only path to the nomination has been to out-work the Clintons across the country. My guess is the Clintons assumed that once they sucked up all the money and the institutional backing, they’d win NH and SC, and then crush Obama on Super Tuesday. Under this strategy, all these pesky caucuses weren’t worth the money or effort. They didn’t need them. But something happened along the way to Hillary’s coronation. She lost S.C. by huge margins,changing the landscape dramatically. But it doesn’t seem like the campaign really adjusted. Maybe because it blew so much money on parking and Mark Penn, but they haven’t pivoted the way such an amazing machine would be expected to do. Now they’re in a Giuliani-esque crouch, waiting for their big firewall to catapult Hillary to the nomination. It could still work, but I think no matter what happens, Obama has clearly run the far superior campaign.

  • After all, the key to winning caucuses is on-the-ground organizational strength and an effective mobilizing strategy.

    This is the reason. Obama has this like I’ve never seen before. This is NOT because he’s a better strategist than Clinton, it’s just that he has many times more crazed volunteers to work with.

    You should have seen Wilmington in Delaware on Super Tuesday. It was absolutely saturated with Obama canvassers. You couldn’t turn a corner without seeing a guy holding up an Obama sign and screaming. You couldn’t get inside your house without stepping over a pile of Obama propaganda. If you lived in inner-city Wilmington, there was nowhere to hide.

    I canvassed all day in Wilmington and saw Obama signs, doorhangers, literature everywhere. We got in arguments with other canvassers because we were stepping in each other’s turf.. there wasn’t enough Wilmington to go around.

    The entire day – 11 hours of walking around Wilmington – I saw one Clinton sign. One. And nothing else to suggest that she even existed.

  • Well, this could be the answer I suppose, but I think it’s probably because Obama has a bigger, and better ground team. That is now a big bad and seasoned ground team. Every time I run across an news stories about how the campaigns are run on the ground I see that Obama usually has more offices, and a lot more people on the ground in the state than Hillary does.

    My guess is that Obama folks are lot more enthusiastic than Hillary folks. And he gets swamped with very high level and motivated volunteers. I recently read a story about the campaign in Missouri I think it was, where the field operator was joking about the Volunteer resumes he was receiving. He said waving a pile of resumes, something like, “I’ve never seen so many road scholars in my life.”

    Again, this is all anecdotal speculation.

  • On MTP, Huckabee reported that “fried squirrel is a Southern delicacy.”

    Next he will let every one know that a seven course meal in Arkansas is a possum and a six pack.

  • #2

    I think that is an excellent observation. I think that when applied to a situation where the candidates don’t campaign and have absolutley no contact with the voters – like here in Florida – you see the effects of that quite clearly.

  • I find it amazing the the democratic party would call caucases democratic for instance in Iowa people are actually paid to caucas for one canidate or another (so to speak). I personally beleive that caucases are the most undemocratic process in the election system no matter who win them. And lest we not forget that a caucas in a precinct is not binding in the county or state caucas. Meaning that delegates could go to county for Obama and get steam rolled by to powers to be at county or state.

  • But for me, this is not really the exciting or interesting part. For me, is how the Hillary Spin changes from week to week.

    Iowa: Inevitable. THE Democratic Nominee.
    NH: Sad. I’ve found my voice.
    NV: Angry: Don’t let the Culinary Union Vote!
    SC: Pissed: He only won because he’s black.
    Pre Super Tuesday: High Minded. Michigan and Florida should be Heard.

    And finally Super Tuesday left us with, these two gems.

    Obama is the Establishment Candidate! (My favorite)
    And we stopped his momentum in California (My fear)

    But these elections, Obama’s growing national numbers, and his raising more fundraising dollars from ordinary Americans rather than big money people and lobbyist cash, all tell a completely different story.

    And Hillary’s seeming strategy to put all her hopes in big state wins like Pennsylvania really does seem like a 9ui11an1’s Florida strategy. God bless Mr. Penn. He is saving us all from ourselves.

  • What I am seeing (generally speaking) is Hillary winning the states that Democrats always win (Cal, NY, etc.), and Obama winning the states that Democrats rarely win. This tells me that Obama holds the possibility of expanding the Democratic coalition in the Fall more than Clinton does. Surely, Cal. and NY, etc. would vote for him, just as they voted for Hillary in the primaries, and hopefully a few of these other states — Kansas? Missouri? a Southern state or two? — could be persuaded to join the Democrats, as well.

  • I think the caucus system puts the Obama campaign’s nationwide metaphor of “the crown is moving to Obama” into reality. If you’re at a caucus and you’re undecided, you literally have to watch the crowd move over to Obama with cheers and smiles on their faces and all that excitement, and then go pick Clinton. Unless you’re really committed that sounds tough to do, especially after days of headlines and news stories saying basically “holy crap look at this huge crowd at the Obama rally” which he has received in most states.

  • One observation about Washington. It has been reported that Obama had 20,000 people at an event and when I look at the vote totals from the state I don’t really see it turning into to many votes. The totals from WA were 21,629 for Obama and 9992 for Clinton with 100% of the precincts reporting.

    Can anyone explain the descrepency or were those in attendence at the rally the only ones that bothered to show up to caucas?

  • I agree with most of you guys stating that Obama message is not that well known in the primary states because unlike primaries, caucuses allow the voters to do the preaching for Obama. This allows for people who haven’t heard anything about him to make a decision to back him. This goes to show if Obama advertises more and gets his message to those Americans who doesn’t know him very well he will get a lot more support.

  • My God. Look at the final results.

    Lousiana: 100% reporting
    Clinton: 36%
    Obama: 57%

    Nebraska: 99% reporting
    Clinton: 32%
    Obama: 68%

    Washington: 96% reporting
    Clinton: 31%
    Obama: 68%

    These are not small margins.

  • I personally beleive that caucases are the most undemocratic process in the election system no matter who win them.

    That’s great, but it has zero bearing on the situation.

    One could argue that the electoral college is hihghly undemocratic because the winner-takes-all system essentially invalidates millions of people’s votes. However, those are the rules and you don’t get to change them in the middle of the game.

    I find it disheartening that these critiques semm to come from Clinton supporters the most, not because I think the opinions are invalid but because they seem to be disingenuous. I guess this comes from the candidate herself, who in petitioning to have the FL and MI delegates seated seems to be arguing not for democracy, but for her own personal gain.

    I am a Florida voter, and while I don’t like having my vote invalidated, that was the hand we were dealt. The DNC stripped our delegates and rendered our primary totally invalid. Sure, it sucks and is wholly undemocratic but the state party broke the rules and the candidates agreed to the edict handed down. Changing the rules after the fact is simply wrong, especially when the rationale to do so comes from those arguing for their own advantage.

  • “What I am seeing (generally speaking) is Hillary winning the states that Democrats always win (Cal, NY, etc.), and Obama winning the states that Democrats rarely win. This tells me that Obama holds the possibility of expanding the Democratic coalition in the Fall more than Clinton does. Surely, Cal. and NY, etc. would vote for him, just as they voted for Hillary in the primaries, and hopefully a few of these other states — Kansas? Missouri? a Southern state or two? — could be persuaded to join the Democrats, as well.”

    Exactamundo! Well said. Also Hillary is expected tow in those states, not only because she been around the Democratic establishment longer, but also because she is a current senator of New York; her Husband is a former governor of arkansas; New jersey is next to New York and they know her better; California have a huge Hispanic population who loves her husband Bill Clinton, and a lot of them voted early. Obama will be a great asset is the General election because like you said his appeal to ;independents; his ability to get new younger voters to participate, and to challenge a dysfunctional republican party and steal their voters.

  • Trying to crack the nut of Obama’s appeal, it seems there is more going on than Obama the candidate. Yes he’s charismatic. Yes he’s the anti-Bush, an articulate person who can speak extremely well on political topics with teleprompters or talking points. And yes there are the ideas he’s pushing forward.

    But there’s also the idea of Obama that’s also adding to the momentum. The American public wants things to change … a lot. The only candidate in the field who looks like, talks like, presents the greatest image of change is Obama. Some may argue that the perception of Barack’s ability to alter the course of this nation is undeserved, but there are an awful lot of Americans who look at Barack and see idea of a radical break from the Bush years. Hope is indeed infectious.

  • “…Obama had 20,000 people at an event and when I look at the vote totals from the state I don’t really see it turning into to many votes…..21,629 for Obama and 9992 for Clinton with 100% of the precincts reporting….Can anyone explain the descrepency?

    I can do that: Around two-hundred thousand folks showed up to caucus in WA. The 21269 / 9992 numbers you quote are the delegates generated from the 200,000. I’m one of those delegates.

  • John S @22

    So then by your writing that that is the rules that were set then you will be happy when the super delegates pick Hillary or is that just for the caucases?

  • I think Clinton may have made a strategic mistake in thinking the caucuses – other than Iowa, of course – wouldn’t matter that much, perhaps not imagining that she would be in a dogfight for every single delegate. Obviously – big mistake.

    And even though the numbers of people who participate in caucuses bear little relation to the numbers of people who vote in primaries, headlines matter, so I think that for the moment, Obama is also winning the perceptual contest.

    I do think the caucus system is less representative of the will of the people, because it happens in a very small window of time – if you can’t be at your caucus site at a particular time, after which the doors are closed, and be able to stay until it’s over, you can’t participate. I think there’s something inherently undemocratic about it, even if it purports to be politics on an extremely personal level.

    That being said, Obama looks to be poised to win all three primaries on Tuesday, and as he comes to Maryland – my state – it’s clear what his strategy is. He’s appearing on the campus of the University of MD – which is located outside the DC suburbs and in an area with a high AA population, so he gets youth and blacks – and he will be appearing in downtown Baltimore, also a predominantly AA area. Clinton will be in Bowie – also a predominantly AA area.

    I think the compressed primary schedule has made the ground organization absolutley essential to winning, and it looks like he has the edge there.

    After the Washington State primary on February 19, I think there may be nothing until Texas and Ohio in early March and then there is PA in late April. If you think the people of Iowa and NH saw a lot of the candidates…sheesh – Ohio, Texas and PA are going to be inundated with visits, ads and phone calls like they never dreamed.

  • I think there are two reasons why Obama does well in caucuses. First because Obamites are extremely vocal and not embarassed to shove people in their direction. Secondly because Obamites are more likely to be highly educated elites they are more likely to work in salaried positions instead of hourly. This makes it more likely that they have the flexibility to show up during caucus hours. I guess I could add a third in that Obama followers are more likely to be young and thus aren’t jaded by the process thus having more enthusiasm than the older Clinton voters.

  • g8grl

    and I’d add a 3rd the students don’t have anything else to do because mommy and daddy are paying their freight.

  • Regarding whaht Petorado Said:

    Disclaimer. I wrote this at the end of an old thread that will probably never be read. Note, If you don’t like what he said. Don’t read this:

    myiq2xu Wrtote:

    The reason I believe that this is true is that these trolls don’t seem interested in extolling the virtues of Obama, they just want to attack Hillary and her supporters. And their attacks not only rely on right-wing meme’s, they don’t sound like any liberals or progressives I’ve ever heard.

    ~

    We’ll I’m not sure that you’ve got this quite right, on a couple of fronts. I’m not sure these are “Trolls” and I assume you’d count me as one of them. There are two issues here. Firstly, if you talk about Obama in a positive light, for his leadership skills, his vision on international policy or any of the other good things about him. People start sounding off, calling you Borg, Zombie, Cool Aid Drinker or Wing Nut Praying at the Temple of Obama.

    That makes it kind of hard to talk much about his positives, don’t you think?

    Secondly, if you’ve been Drinking from the well of Obama Naiveté like I have, you understand that Hillary is a BIG part of the problems we have in America, the insane partisanship, a culture where lobbyists control Washington, and a congress and senate divided and conquered by 50+1 politics.

    Most people who support Hillary do so because of her long experience in DC, her insider knowledge, and her ability to “Work” the system. I on the other hand think this is exactly what’s wrong with her. She is built into our rotten system. She is part of the lobbyist machine and so was her husband before her. She has mastered “That Game”. (Hillary is the biggest receiver of lobbyist cash in the election, on either side of the isle.) I believe deeply, that we as Americans need to “Change the Game”.

    By that I mean. Washington has to fundamentally changed. This is what inspires me about Obama. His service and beliefs in constitutional law. His stated desire to add transparency in order to enhance participatory government. His belief that an democracy needs an informed and motivated electorate. And his belief and ability to get voters involved in the process. For me, Obama is the “Change” I’ve been looking for the last 15 years.

    PS: Yes I believe Hillary will fight fight fight, those “Rat Fuckers” to get herself into the white house. But, I unfortunately am not willing to fight that fight with her.

  • (Please don’t look at this as an opportunity to say Clinton lost these caucuses because she’s evil, or Obama won because he’s amazing.)

    So I guess it’s ok to say Obama is evil and Clinton is competence, non pareil –just kidding.

    In addition, perhaps we should refrain from referring to the oppositions supporters as crazed, naive, non-thinkers or timid, hopeless, matrix dwellers. Even if our hero gets the nomination, it wont mean spit without the presidency.

  • What I am seeing (generally speaking) is Hillary winning the states that Democrats always win (Cal, NY, etc.), and Obama winning the states that Democrats rarely win. This tells me that Obama holds the possibility of expanding the Democratic coalition in the Fall more than Clinton does. Surely, Cal. and NY, etc. would vote for him, just as they voted for Hillary in the primaries, and hopefully a few of these other states — Kansas? Missouri? a Southern state or two? — could be persuaded to join the Democrats, as well.”

    Obama does well in states where Republicans outvote Democrats by large margins. His delegates will not translate to electoral college votes in ND, Idaho, Alaska or Nebraska. The southern states where Democrats outvoted Republicans this primary were OK, Tennessee and Arkansas. Those all went to Hillary by a large margin. Hillary is far more likely to carry the party to victory in November.

  • Two more things about caucuses:

    One – while Washington’s caucus participation was higher than in the last presidential cycle, 200,000 participants is a very small percentage of the state’s almost 4 million registered voters.

    Two – someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but delegates elected in these caucuses for one candidate or the other could go into the county and/or state conventions and change which candidate they will support. That’s a knife that could cut both ways, of course, but I think it’s another reason why the caucus system is not truly democratic.

    Oh – many a third…I also believe that even delegates elected in a primary are only pledged to the candidate they represent for the first ballot at the national party convention – so if there is no clear winner after the first round, delegates are released and can vote for whichever candidate they want. Obviously, this was designed to break a deadlock, and we haven’t seen it in years – and hopefully, we won’t see it this year, either.

  • g8girl writes:

    “Obama followers are more likely to be young and thus aren’t jaded by the process thus having more enthusiasm than the older Clinton voters.”

    Thanks for calling this 44-year-old young. As well as the other middle-agers in my precinct. And the three septugenarians. We *did* have one fella in his twenties amongst us.

    You’re right about one thing. The five Hillary supporters amongst the sixteen of us were sure a dispirited bunch. One threatened to vote for McCain if Clinton wasn’t nominated, and they couldn’t even find enough volunteers to be delegates for their own candidate. One Hillary lady who agreed to be written in as a delegate flat out said she wasn’t gonna show up.

  • -g8grl

    And I suppose that ignores the scads of black people of all age groups and classes that have been coming out for Obama in droves? Two, that salaried bit is a false assumption, since you don’t get your pay for not showing up, you have to be there at work and work in order to get your salary. If you leave early, you get a cut taken out of their check proportional to the time they missed. Three, I think that’s an unfair assumption that older voters can’t be excited about the voting process, and that’s not really representative of reality either, given Obama’s growing chunk of older adult votes.

  • g8grl – are you seriously saying you think Obama could turn Idaho from red to blue, or Nebraska, or any of the other states where the GOP traditionally wins the general by those same 70-30, 60-40 margins?

    And remember, a lot of those “impressive” wins were caucus wins, which may give him an advantage in the delegate count, but which are unlikely to represent a real shift in the voting metric vis-a-vis shifting the entire state away from going for the Republican in the general election.

    I would be very surprised if, in a general election campaign, you would see either candidate spend a whole lot of time in these solidly red states; I think the only reason you saw it in the primary/caucus season is as part of the quest for the nomination.

  • I think it comes down to commitment and motivation. You have to feel very motivated to show up at a specific time and go through a caucus, which involves declaring your views in an open setting and debating with others over the merits of the candidates.

    Because Obama supporters are so excited and passionate, they show up at the caucuses.

    Primaries work for Hillary because she can reach a large audience at once and rely on early voting, name recognition and the fact that voters can vote all day mostly, insuring a larger turnout. Also, these voters are not influenced by the other voters, which happens in a caucus.

    I don’t know how Hillary Clinton can counter this. She lacks her husband’s warm Southern charm and does not possess Obama’s amazing ability to tap into people’s emotions. Her best bets are debates, which make her seem in charge and quick. Obama is hampered with a stammer that makes him look like he can think on his feet.

    Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t watch debates. The most she can hope for is that she’s able to project dependability and competence, making her case for the presidency calmly and politely but firmly. Then praying that something awful happens, like a crisis overseas or at home that freaks people out and brings them back to her protective hawkish side. Or praying that Obama will fall under the weight of “expectations,” becoming deflated based on a personal gaffe or him just f*cking things up.

    That’s not likely. But a roboClinton can dream.

  • These state delegates are obligated to support the choice they were elected to vote for unless their candidate (like Edwards) drops out of the race. I’m not sure what Anne (34) means by “if there is no clear winner after the first round, delegates are released and can vote for whichever candidate they want.” Since there are only two candidates left, why wouldn’t there be a clear winner?

    I like the caucuses for one reason. You actually have to arrange your schedule and then be willing to spend an hour or more in order to participate. Everyone has a right to vote, but in a caucus, the party nomination is not decided by the yard-sign counters.

  • Two points I would like to make then I’ll have said all that needs to be said:

    1.) Obama won 27% of the white vote in LA, 24% in SC, 32% in AL and nationally in primaries he has averaged about 35%. This is not in noway to mean anything racist but in the November election I beleive that at least half of this voting block will stay home. When it comes to latinos they will vote for McCain. So therefore this brings California in play along with NM that is just my prediction.

    2.) 90% of the students that are pushing Barack through these caucases will be no where to be found come November. Right now this is exciting to them and they don’t really have much to do but in November it is time to hit the books and pass some of their courses. So therefore they won’t have time to vote or won’t make time. Right now its a novelty to them that will where of shortly after they have made some noise. The only block of voters that is reliable is the 50 and older group who vote in every primary and every general as well as special elections.

    And I will add one more cavaet to the equasion if FL doesn’t have a say in the nomination just color it RED for John McCain because there will be no reason for democrats to show up and vote.

  • I have attended caucusses in WA state for Hart, Kerry and Obama. They have consistently gotten bigger and now they are swollen with enthusiastic people who want a say about the electoral college and some participatory democracy.

    What is it like? It’s the most intimate community experience possible. True democracy. People enlightened, hopeful, focussed. Absolutely amazing.

    See http://www.silencedmajority.blogs.com where I photographed (2nd story) our caucus. The art in the first story is from the school (mostly white) where the caucus was held and may show you something about why even our 17 year olds showed up and voted their conscience, their hope.

  • Anne Said: are you seriously saying you think Obama could turn Idaho from red to blue, or Nebraska, or any of the other states where the GOP traditionally wins the general by those same 70-30, 60-40 margins?

    Actually yes. If Clinton is the nominee, I believe Hillary will win or lose with a 50+1% or 50-1% calculus. All the republicans are now scattered and dispirited, broken down on NeoCon, TheoCon, PaloCon and GroverNorquistCon lines. Currently, they are piling up on their front runner McCain. If there is anything they agree on, its that Hillary can never be president. If
    is the nominee, they quickly unify and fight Hillary. Raise Bajillions of dollars. And fight the good fight. They will win or lose by 1%.

    Obama is another story. I’m pretty confident that he will pull a Ronald Reagan. He will win the popular vote by a bit, but win the elector collage by a landslide. Drawing from republican strongholds. Gaining young people for the party. And finally, finally, finally, giving this country a popular mandate to make so many of the changes we need so desperately.

    I’ve held this opinion since his announcement speech in January of last year, but hey, that is just me.

  • I agree mostly with #2 and #3. I believe that a lot of Hillary’s voters vote for her due to her established name and reputation and from early voters; and that they do it out of default because they don’t know Obama very well. But in caucuses, where it takes more effort to vote and you can’t vote early, Obama has the clear advantage. Because they vote for him because they like him, not just because they consider him the default choice.

    Now, it can be argued that caucuses aren’t democratic because they make it too difficult to vote or whatever, but as John S said at 22, this is the system we’ve got. Moreover, I like the fact that motivated people get more say in a nomination than someone who doesn’t really care as much. It’s also undemocratic that people actually have to go somewhere in November to vote and possibly wait in long lines (voting should be easier than making your morning coffee), and motivated people will do so in larger numbers than unmotivated people; and they’re more likely to motivate other people to vote too. I like that Obama is getting people excited about him, as opposed to picking the default candidate. And let’s not forget that in 2004 Dean had excited people, yet he got trounced in Iowa. It’s not just the campaign workers who are excited; Barack’s clearly exciting the voters too.

    Now, maybe that’s not what’s happening, but I haven’t seen a better explanation. Even the Clinton people admit that the Obama people are more excited about their candidate. And from my perspective, I don’t understand what they’re waiting for. It’s fun to be on the motivated side. Barack has proven he’s no lightweight. He’s got a great organization. He’s a better fundraiser. And he’ll give us excellent speeches for the next eight years. I don’t see what’s not to love. I only joined on the Obama train after Dodd dropped out, but I now feel silly for not having joined sooner. It’s really nice to have someone to be excited about. For the first time in my life, I’m looking for a campaign sign to stick in my yard. I might just steal one of my neighbor’s.

  • It’s worth noting and correcting a couple misconceptions, and making a few other points:

    1-Obama actually has more votes than Clinton in primaries alone. I did the math. In head-to-heads, he has 50.07-49.93. Real close, of course, but that margin is likely to only grow in the coming days. He has as many big wins in primaries (SC, Georgia, Illinois) as she does, or at least is comparable. The only state where she’s gotten over 60% of the vote, IIRC, was Arkansas…while he’s done it something like 9 times, doing it primaries as well as caucuses.

    I can copy/paste all of them if you like, I’m keeping a running google spreadsheet

    Total primary votes: 7,757,567 to 7,778,930

    2-The SUSA poll from a couple weeks back that accurately predicted Obama’s margin in the caucuses today also showed him up by similar margins for a primary. Those numbers seemed to have changed a little (looking at a more recent poll), but I imagine that has more to do with people realizing the primary is a beauty contest more than anything. Also: Hillary’s strong age demographic, 65+, reported the worst likelihood of attending the caucuses and primaries. I thought he big advantage was that she got the people who vote, the old people. Remember Howard Wolfson and Mark Penn smirking and dismissing Obama’s youthful crowds? Also: Obama dominated the more recent poll in 35-50 voters as well. If he’s as strong with them across income as he is with under-35 voters, he’s gonna be hard to beat.

    3-Multiple polls have suggested that the tighter the voter screen, the better Obama does. That suggests something to me: the higher the barrier to registering preference, the better Obama does. Obama supporters seem to want to go support him, while many Hillary supporters, apparently, choose her by default or have settled on her but aren’t particularly excited about going to make their support official. Polls right now show them neck-and-neck with registered Dems and Dem-leaning independents. When she narrow that to likely primary voters, Obama’s margins increase. And as we’ve seen, when you go from primaries to caucuses, his margins get even bigger. Which leads me to a big point: you don’t win elections by having nice poll numbers, you win elections by getting people to the polls. Obama, thus far, has been better at getting his people to the polls, better at getting them to volunteer, better at getting them to give money, and better at getting them to caucus. Regardless of what you think of the caucus system, those things surely are in his favor.

    4-At this point, when you add in caucuses, Obama has a clear edge in total votes cast for him, total states won (where his lead is substantial), and total pledged delegates. He’s also put together a more impressive fundraising machine and seems to have had a much more thorough, effective, and creative election strategy. By any metric, he’s simply run a better campaign than Clinton is pretty inarguably, at this point, the superior politician. In spite of her huge Name-ID and institutional advantages, he’s beating the pants off her right now.

    5-Does anyone else get the impression the Clinton campaign is surprised to still be battling a this point? They went broke and into debt to stay alive on Super Tuesday to only duel to a draw, were completely unprepared to battle in any of the February states as far as I can tell, and it seems they threw together the “wait until Ohio/Texas” on the fly without even realizing how specious a strategy is there. Every advantage she’s had over Obama has disappeared in pretty much every state (save Arkansas) as the elections have approached, and I expect Ohio and Texas to be no different. Coming off a string of big wins for Obama, one would think those trends would only be magnified in those states. It seems the “tested” and “ready from day one” campaign has not been ready from day 1 for any of this, and didn’t see Obama coming at all.

  • BioBrain Said:

    It’s really nice to have someone to be excited about. For the first time in my life, I’m looking for a campaign sign to stick in my yard. I might just steal one of my neighbor’s.

    ~

    I’m going to have to ask you to stay the fack off my LAW bro…. After last night, I decided that Gun Control was not my primary issue. And I’ve purchased a Heat Seaking Earth to Neighbor Missle.

    You’re going to have to ask Fred if you can borrow one of his.

    Got it?

  • Here experience matters. That is experience as a community organizer, giving Obama an edge in the caucus states.

    Caucuses give Obama supporters an effective means to overcome Clinton’s advantages in name recognition. Clinton’s main argument is that she is the inevitable winner. When she discusses issues, she does so by techniques such as sending out mailers which outright lie about Obama’s positions. Obama supporters have the opportunity to respond with the truth. This is one reason why Clinton might win by small margins in some states, but Obama wins by overwhelming margins in caucus states.

    Home state advantage helped Clinton a bit more than Obama. Obama won Illinois, but Clinton’s home state advantage helped in both New York and New Jersey, tipping the big state number a bit more in her favor. Early voting also helped Clinton in California. Two of Clinton’s big state wins, Michigan and Florida, were not won fairly. When these factors are taken into consideration, Clinton’s big state edge is no longer so great.

    The red state/blue state divide makes a big difference. The larger states tend to be blue states, where people will vote for either Clinton or Obama. Many of the smaller states are red states where people will vote for Obama but will not vote for Clinton. People who turn out to vote for a candidate in a primary will turn out in a general election. Obama can tip some of these states, along with carrying the Clinton states in a general election. Clinton would be limited to the blue states with a couple other potential pick ups.

  • Jim

    Two points I would like to make then I’ll have said all that needs to be said:

    1.) Obama won 27% of the white vote in LA, 24% in SC, 32% in AL and nationally in primaries he has averaged about 35%. This is not in noway to mean anything racist but in the November election I beleive that at least half of this voting block will stay home. When it comes to latinos they will vote for McCain. So therefore this brings California in play along with NM that is just my prediction.

    Obama won the white vote in California, Connecticut, Washington State, Utah, Missouri, Iowa…and you neglect to mention that SC was split 3-ways and that Obama was statistically tied with Clinton on that measure (Edwards won 40% of the white vote, Clinton and Obama ~30% each). Further, you neglected to mention that 70% of the white voters in SC said they’be enthusiastic about an Obama nomination.

    As for Latinos, every indication is he won the Hispanic vote in SC and polls have shown him splitting that bloc with Hillary in Maryland and Virginia, and he won it handily in his home state or Illinois. It’s no guarrantee McCain wins the Hispanic vote. I expect him to continue to strengthen his standing as they get to know him better.


    2.) 90% of the students that are pushing Barack through these caucases will be no where to be found come November. Right now this is exciting to them and they don’t really have much to do but in November it is time to hit the books and pass some of their courses. So therefore they won’t have time to vote or won’t make time. Right now its a novelty to them that will where of shortly after they have made some noise. The only block of voters that is reliable is the 50 and older group who vote in every primary and every general as well as special elections.

    Wait, wasn’t this why Obama was supposed to lose the primaries? Because the “youth” vote is supposedly unreliable. But, now I get it! Young voters who are getting up to go to caucuses or participate in low-turn-out primaries won’t vote in actual elections, just like they wont turn-out for the primaries they’ve already turned out for. Hey, here’s a tip: get your head out of the sand.


    And I will add one more cavaet to the equasion if FL doesn’t have a say in the nomination just color it RED for John McCain because there will be no reason for democrats to show up and vot

    Oh yeah, for sure, every Democrat I know in Florida is just gonna stay home in November. Oh, wait, actually: as a Floridian, I can say everyone I know is eager to have an election that actually matters, making them more likely to vote come Novemeber. I mean, do you have any evidence to back up your claim here? I would think not, since it’s obviously false on it’s face.

    Basically, you made a strong of ill-supported assertions, that do not persuade, and sound more like spin or agitprop than an attempt at good faith discussion

  • DiAnne, thanks for the pictures!

    I’m a sucker for elementary school age kids: the most honest, real people that you’ll find anywhere. And if you talk to them as small adults, they are a treasure trove of wisdom not yet forgotten.

    But i loved the picture of all those adults crammed into the gym. Democracy works best when people participate, not in a solemn civic duty kind of way, but with actual human interaction. I’m far more inspired by seeing a roomful of Americans taking their future into their own hands, together, than i am by any soaring rhetoric.

    It ain’t about the candidate, its about the process. If We the People can sustain the process, the candidates at every level will get better and better. The actuality of this election so far (again, not the candidates) has given me more hope for my country than i’ve ever had before…and sometimes more than my bitter, cynical heart can take.

  • Obama is another story. I’m pretty confident that he will pull a Ronald Reagan. He will win the popular vote by a bit, but win the elector collage by a landslide.

    I definitely could see that happening, though I wouldn’t bet on it. For me, the bigger issue is making McCain fight for red states which already aren’t very enthuastic about him. To see McCain wasting time, money, and hardcore conservative rhetoric trying to make sure South Carolina, Georgia, and the rest of these states Obama swept would warm my heart. Particularly if McCain finds himself in the bad position of having to use covert racist language to woo these states back. One inadvertent “Macaca” slip-up would pretty much ruin him faster than George Whatshisname. He’d then have to backtrack on it, and thus piss-off the racists he was trying to win over in the first place.

    These people always believed Bush was a secret conservative, allowing him to act moderate during his campaign; but they’re already worried about McCain’s credentials, and if guys like Limbaugh don’t embrace him, he’s screwed. Not that these conservatives will vote for Obama, but they’ll be less motivated to turn out at all; which is almost as good. Yesterday’s primaries show how bad McCain’s position on this is.

    And sure, it’s possible we could see the flip side, of McCain putting blue states in competition and making Obama fight for them, but that’s not nearly as likely or hurt him as much. Obama can use the same appeal for both his blue and red state sales pitch; while McCain can’t. He’ll have to pick a side and it’ll hurt him with the other. I honestly could see Obama turning this into an electorial landslide, but see the more likely scenerio just being that he denies McCain any safe states and makes him compete in all fifty states; and that plays heavily to Obama’s advantages.

  • RonChusid Said:

    Home state advantage helped Clinton a bit more than Obama. Obama won Illinois, but Clinton’s home state advantage helped in both New York and New Jersey, tipping the big state number a bit more in her favor.

    ~

    Just as a heads up. NY and NJ share TV stations and advertising. That is how she got a bigger “Home state advantage”

    But on the other hand. Barrack crushed in Ill. Hillary did not get the same results in her home state or NJ.

  • This is not in noway to mean anything racist but in the November election I beleive that at least half of this voting block will stay home. -Jim

    What leads you to believe that half of traditionally white Democratic voters will stay home in November?

    90% of the students that are pushing Barack through these caucases will be no where to be found come November. -Jim

    Ignoring that you think students are responsible for Obama’s success, again, what makes you think they will stay home? That age demo has been voting in rapidly increasing amounts since 2000 and will likely make up a fifth or more of all voters in November.

    And I will add one more cavaet to the equasion if FL doesn’t have a say in the nomination… -Jim

    It’s just not possible at this point. Time, money, fairness: take your pick, there are so many reasons at this point and this is just rehashing settled arguments.

  • Bio Said:

    These people always believed Bush was a secret conservative, allowing him to act moderate during his campaign; but they’re already worried about McCain’s credentials, and if guys like Limbaugh don’t embrace him, he’s screwed.

    ~

    Ok. Reasonable minds can disagree, but I think you’ve got the Republican Party mixed up with republican voters. I’m a democrat in a sea of republicans, (all my friends and business colligues) none of whom agree with Bush. Remember who Bush squeaked by in 2004 by a hair, then by the end of January his approval ratings had dropped to 32%. Now, Bush and Cheney swing between 17% and 35%. Republicans have brains too. Yes they were suckered into narrowly defeating Kerry… But can you blame them?

    That is not what we’re facing today. Right now. To a man, every republican friend of mine is now an Obama backer. They are all sending the maximum $2600 to Obama.

    All of my acquaintances who are republicans are pfffffttttttttt……….. on McCain. Hate Hillary. Will vote McCain in a heart beat over Hillary. And all of these people would vote for Obama or they fear him winning a landslide.

    That’s what I’m seeing. I don’t think firm wins in Repub States by Obama is unreasonable. And I I’m sure slim ones could create a national Electoral Collage landslide. All it takes is a 50+5 solution, rather than Hillary’s 50+1 strategy.

  • So then by your writing that that is the rules that were set then you will be happy when the super delegates pick Hillary or is that just for the caucases?

    Jim, do you think me so patently false that I would argue for playing by the rules – excoriating those that argue otherwise for their horse – but not for MY horse? Come on, man. Rules are rules. You play by them or you don’t play the game at all.

    Your analogy doesn’t hold water, though. First of all, you assume the superdelegates are all going to line up behind Hillary. Don’t be so sure. Second, there are NO rules governing whom the superdelegates back. That is part of the issue some people have with them.

    Obama himself isn’t arguing to throw out the superdelegates (even though I see Clinton supporters recycling this meme). He just thinks they should follow the will of the people. He’s entitled to his opinion, just as Hillary is entitled to think those superdelegates should honor whatever backdoor deals were cut with her months ago. But there is absolutely no rule governing how they vote.

  • I’m going to have to ask you to stay the fack off my LAWN bro….

    I’m not worried. My neighborhood is so liberal we have anti-gun weapons lying around. That kind of thing is important here in Texas, where there are more guns than non-guns. I’m sure my neighbor wouldn’t mind sharing. But I wouldn’t do it, as they have a corner lot with more traffic than me. Much better advertising.

    As a side note, my scariest moment was two years ago when my sister visited from Houston in her minivan with the Condi for President bumpersticker on the back. I was worried that my neighbors would start chunking rotton tofu at us. It was very embarrassing.

  • Adding on to what Biobrain said above, I think that, with Obama as the nominee, we can make McCain fight on his actual home turf– the west. Notice how Idaho went big for Obama on Super Tuesday . . . because (gasp!) he actually showed up to talk to people there. For too long, Democrats have ignored the Rocky Mountain states, concentrating instead on a Southern past that will not revive itself anytime soon. Now, I doubt Obama would carry Arizona, and there’s no way he could take the GOP bastion of Utah. But the other states? Well, it’s possible. With the right strategy, and the right VP (Brian Schweitzer, anyone?), Obama could win New Mexico, Colorado, Montana, and Nevada. That would be a great big slap in the face to McCain, and to the GOP as a whole.

    I know, a lot of you are probably thinking, “But many of those states have high Hispanic populations, and Obama hasn’t done well with Hispanics.” To which I say, “While it is true that Obama did not fare well amongst Hispanics in California, he did perfectly fine with that demographic in Arizona, in the still-to-be-determined New Mexico, and even in Connecticut!” What that really shows is, in parts of the country where there are pre-existing tensions between the black community and the Hispanic community (meaning Southern California,) Obama’s campaign has come up against some friction. But that phenomenon does not apply across the board to Hispanics in other states, thus, I stand by my conviction that the West can be won.

  • BioBrain Wrote:

    My neighborhood is so liberal we have anti-gun weapons lying around. That kind of thing is important here in Texas, where there are more guns than non-guns. I’m sure my neighbor wouldn’t mind sharing.

    ~

    Houston….

    Ahhhh…. You all Texans are just hippies. Ask Steve Benen. In Vermont we’re allowed to carry loaded shotguns into super markets. You just have to have it uncocked over your elbow.

    To this I say, Texans are a bunch of card carrying commies…

    Come to Vermont for the real men.

  • I’m with John S @ 54 and think the super-delegates suck. It’s one thing to set-up a system that makes it harder for voters to pick their candidate. It’s another thing when a select group of insiders gets to subvert the will of those voters. As I said above, even the General Election process is deeply flawed, as voting should be easier than getting out of bed in the morning. In 2004, there were empty voting booths when I voted in one city, but my wife had to wait when she voted after work. In 2006, I had to wait thirty minutes to vote here in Austin. Some people have to wait hours, while others will see the long lines and leave. The fact that some people find it much easier to vote than others is undemocratic.

    And so a nomination system that favors the candidate with the determined voters does make a difference in November. Again, our entire system is designed to disenfranchise people who aren’t very determined to vote, so the caucus system isn’t as bad as it would seem. But the super-delegates thing is a different story, as they won’t get extra votes on election day and serve no other purpose than to allow the insiders to “fix” the results of the people determined enough to vote in primaries and caucuses. If it does turn out that they hand the election to Hillary, I’ll accept it, but I won’t be happy about it. Nor would I like it if it led to them handing Obama the nomination.

  • Bio Brain Said:

    I’m with John S @ 54 and think the super-delegates suck.

    ~

    I’m basically ok with it, and generally believe it has to follow democratic principals. If someone where to win or lose because some partisan chose the Clintons over popular opinion, it would be seen as betrayal and undemocratic. The backlash in the Democratic Party would kill them.

    The good news for Obama is they remember what the Clintons are like, winning elections while all the other democrats have lost them. I’m pretty sure the Mayors, House Speakers, Senators, Members of the House, governors and all the other Democrats who want re election will remember the record of the Clintons and vote in Obama’s favor.

    I’m sure there where a bunch of Democratic Officials who thought that Hillary was the “Safe Bet” and pledged their Super Delegate votes to her. But reality can make that pledge very sticky. And the more states, and Coat Tails Obama is clearly going to give, the more super delegates will abandon Hillary out of self interest.

    That’s a sinking ship going no where…

    On this note. Our system is far better than winner take all on a 50+1 vs 49 republican model. Their model is good for top down conformity… Only when its not. Ours is worlds better, even if imperfect.

  • COMMENTARY & CRITICISM: Reaganomics (unfairly) advantaged capital over labor, with the ‘Greatest Generation’ taking one-too-many victory laps?
    Now Obama (hopefully) will advantage labor at the expense of capital? And so it goes until we exhaust our resources.

    [Please DELETE this post before the children see it!]

  • thorin @ 54 – Just to clarify, I am NOT in Houston. I lived there for awhile, but came to Austin as soon as I could and like it too much to leave. And I live in one of the most liberal neighborhoods of a liberal city (our car stands out for not having an anti-Bush bumpersticker on it). That’s what made things so offensive when they did that crooked re-districting scam a few years back; because they made our congressman Lamar Smith, who lives in San Antonio, 80 miles away. But a court gave us back our liberal, so I’m satisfied.

  • I was at the Washington State caucus as well and it was a huge turn out. Episty above made some comments regarding Hillary supporters…. Hmmmm. I am also an elected delegate for Hillary… Our group was very diverse group of age, race, gender etc.. etc… and was pretty even and energetic. It was more of the 70 plus that stood up and made the speeches for Hillary. And by the way I am a 57 years old. In the end Obama got 3, Clinton 2. The problem I detected from the Obama group is that they really don’t know what “the is” they believe in… Sorry but that’s a little disturbing from my point of view. Riding a wave is one thing, knowing how and where you’ll end up is another. I’ll take the latter. Another HUGE problem in Washington is that we have a Primary on February 19th… A vast number of people are and were under the impression that is when they actually vote and that it will count…. Wrong. So I don’t think anyone can really say Obama had the solid win they claim here. It’s far from over.

  • Danp said: I like the caucuses for one reason. You actually have to arrange your schedule and then be willing to spend an hour or more in order to participate. Everyone has a right to vote, but in a caucus, the party nomination is not decided by the yard-sign counters.

    No, it’s decided by people who don’t have to be at work at the appointed time, and people who don’t need to arrange child care, people who have easy access to transportation…and so on.

    I think the key to your comment is in this phrase “Everyone has the right to vote, but. There should be no “but” that comes after “everyone has the right to vote.” It may be just the fuddy-duddy in me, but I think that every effort should be made to get as many people as possible to the polls, and I don’t think the caucus system does that, not by a long shot.

    As to my other comment, about releasing delegates after the first ballot – there could be a scenario where one candidate would have more delegates than the other – and hence by simple majority be “the winner” – but still not have the 2,085 necessary to secure the nomination.

    And while I understand the super-delegate concept – I think – it has too much potential to produce a result that differs from eother the popular vote totals, or the regular delegate totals.

    Honestly, I think the way we elect presidents and determine nominees is ridiculous, especially since both parties have different rules leading up to the nominations.

    First, I would establish that all states must hold elections, not caucuses, so that the results more accurately reflect the voice of the people. Second, get rid of the delegate system altogether, at least in terms of them deciding who the nominee is. Instead, every state holds a primary and every vote counts. When all the states have voted, whichever candidate has received a majority of the votes nationwide is the nominee. Then, I think every state is important, and the last states that vote may be as important, if not more, than the first. Schedule the convention for the week following the last states that vote, so that we go into the convention with a nominee who is truly the people’s choice, the time at the convention is spent unifying and rallying the party behind the nominee, and all that’s left is the platform and the VP announcement. There would still be delegates elected to go to the convention, to work on platform issues and work on strategy for a ground game to help get the nominee elected.

    I’m sure there are a million-and-one holes in my suggestion, because I basically just came up with it as I was typing, so try not to make too much fun of it.

  • I’d add one suggestion to the puzzle of why Obama does so well in caucuses. He’s a very attractive candidate, yet people have understandable questions over his experience, his policies, and his capability. This leads to three basic pro-Obama positions. First, many of us who support him have decided that these are not problems, because we’ve read his position statements, compared his background to other politicians with similar experience, and have become aware of what he has been able to accomplish, so we think Obama is objectively and rationally the better choice. Second, some people support him despite their concerns, because they don’t see that Hillary’s experience is that much greater or would be put in service to desirable ends, and because hope and the promise of change outweigh possible negatives. So far, these are Obama’s standard supporters. Beyond that, I suspect a lot of people still like him, but either aren’t well informed about him or aren’t sure that he can win the election, so they consider him too much of a risk. If one of those people goes to vote in a primary, it’s them and their worries in an empty ballot booth. However, if they go to a caucus, encountering lots of people who are enthusiastic aand knowledgeable bout Obama may suddently cause faint hopes to look eminently reasonable. Caucuses really couldn’t be better designed to turn Obama from an apparently risky choice to a seemingly safe choice.

  • Well MSW,

    I’d ask you. What is the “THE?” for Hillary? Looking closely at her record of rhetoric and action, I cannot see what she believes beyond getting herself back into the White House, and her ideas from the 90s regarding health care. I cannot see at all what Hillary believes in? Stopping the war in Iraq? Not invading Iran? (She’s already voted for it) Grown up internationalism, fighting terrorism better than Bush? I mean what? What does Hillary stand for except herself?

    I cannot think of one thing, besides, “I’m inevitable”, “I’ve found my voice”, “Don’t let culinary workers caucus”, “Florida and Michigan should count because they voted for me”, “SC was just because they have too many black people”, and now Obama is the “Establishment Candidate” even though I’m married to an ex-president….

    What does Hillary care about all the shit democrats care about?

    I cannot for the life of me understand who would vote for her. Unless they just think she’d do better to win against the repubs, which is daily being proven to be completely wrong.

  • I think it’s pretty cool that America may be ready for its first African-American president. It makes us look really cool, I think, like we can take this now. Yeah, we are not all under-educated, bloody-minded rednecks.

  • And while I understand the super-delegate concept – I think – it has too much potential to produce a result that differs from eother the popular vote totals, or the regular delegate totals.

    But Anne, that’s the whole point. The Democratic Party decided that it might not be such a great idea to trust The People with their nomination, and so they built-in this ability for party insiders to rig the election against what the people want. It hasn’t been an issue since they created this because we haven’t had a close nomination like this. But this is the exact reason it was created. I certainly hope they won’t do anything as dumb as to overturn either candidate if they have the lead, but that was the very reason it was created.

    As for your all-primary system, I don’t see how that would allow later states to count more than they normally do. The problem with our system is the Momentum issue, and that most voters hop on the bandwagon once a front-runner looks likely. And so there’s no reason for these later states to bother voting, as everyone already decided who the candidate will be. And that wouldn’t change even if we made your changes. The only change would be if all primaries were held on the same day; but that doesn’t matter if they’re primaries or caucuses.

    And finally, as I’ve said, even our general elections favor the candidate who can get people motivated to vote. I fail to understand why that’s not an important factor into who we nominate. Our system has undemocratic elements to it, particularly when some voters have to spend hours in bad weather to vote, while others don’t have to wait at all. As long as it’s still difficult to vote in a general election, I think it can be helpful that motivated voters get a bigger advantage.

    And after all, nobody has to run as a Democrat or Republican. Allowing candidates to associate with the Democratic label is a priviledge, not a right. The nomination process isn’t really part of democracy. They’ve chosen to use a democratic process in order to find a popular nominee. But this is the Democratic Party’s candidate; not the nation’s. This tells us who can use the Democrat label in the election, but if you created your own political party, you could choose your own method to pick your nominee. Whatever method the party picks is their decision. And if a flawed system gets them a flawed candidate, that’s their problem.

  • I hope the intended impression here is not that Obama is buying his way to the Democratic nomination because he has money to burn, and the Clintons are stony broke.

    That was same cudgel used to beat Mitt Romney; that his millions were financing an easy path to the Republican nomination, and he got his ass blown out of the water early on.

  • Campaign philosophy explains it

    The Clinton campaign is trying to win by getting one more vote than the other guy. When she fails, she loses.

    Obama is trying to convince everybody that he’s the best choice, and though he doesn’t convince everybody, he gets enough to win.

  • Hold on a minute there Jim @ #30 “mommy and daddy are paying their (young Obama voters) freight”. Both my kids have pretty much paid for their everything and have done so by choice ever since they were able and they are Obama supporters. Just sayin’.

  • TERROR ALERT: With so many now pushing to reverse the senseless human & environmental exploitaion of Reaganomics, are we headed for extremely dangerous territory? Would a Cult-of-Obama give license here to a similar level of violent passions that the defenders of the Koran & Mohammed exhibit elsewhere? Unfortunately, I already see signs that the answer may be, yes…The again, hey, this is America, not Switzerland.

  • I live in upstate New York in Tompkins County, the home of Cornell University and the only NYS county that Obama won.

    The Obama effort here was visible, enthusiastic and staffed by local activists that we know and trust.

    My wife wanted to contact the Clinton campaign and there was nothing here for her.

    This is one small county, but maybe the same thing is happening in other places.

    More than anything, the Obama campaigning is about EMPOWERMENT and TAKING INITIATIVE at the grassroots level.

    I am confident that next January we will be christening Air Force One the Barakette.

    Robert Chapman
    Brooktondale, NY

  • Anne writes: Honestly, I think the way we elect presidents and determine nominees is ridiculous, especially since both parties have different rules leading up to the nominations.

    I couldn’t agree more, Anne. And while your off the cuff ideas might have a few holes in them, they seem far superior to the hash we’ve got now. If I might once again toss in my own pet voting concept: ALL MAIL-IN VOTING!! Cheaper, better, more reliable, greater participation, no inconvenience for the voters, and proven beyond any doubt by Oregon for years now.

    I would like nothing more than to see the Diebold corporation (or whatever they call themselves now) to be buried under a pile of their crooked voting machines.

  • I don’t know how different the caucus system is in North Dakota compared to other locations, but it is a pressure-free environment here. Clinton and Obama each had a staffed table on location. The voting itself was by ballot and took a total of five minutes of my afternoon.

  • Wow Thorin, hit a little hot spot there? You’ve got your opinion(s), I’ve got mine. God bless the USA and the right to express them… The one thing I am not doing however is making direct attacks on the candidate. I think I could come up with a few “quotes” myself if I wanted to “play” that way… I am still a democrate and will support my party no matter and you??

  • The problem I detected from the Obama group is that they really don’t know what “the is” they believe in…The one thing I am not doing however is making direct attacks on the candidate…

    No. Just directly attacking the intelligence of those who support him.

  • Oh Donna. You weren’t sitting in my caucus group so I really don’t think you are qualified to tell me what I saw or heard… Now maybe your group, if you were in one, had more to say? Great. I still don’t know how he plans to get what he says done. And by the way Donna I didn’t mention anyones intelligence nor do I question it, I believe Obama and those who support him are quite intelligent, those are your words. “The” is still a question. I believe in change also… with a plan. What is the plan.

  • The future is going forward not going back. Elected delegates should decide the candidate, not super delegates.

    Clinton and McCain represent the past. Obama represents the future. If you want the same old politics elect Clinton. The ways of Clinton caused the Democates to lose the House and Senate.

    If you do not vote you will deserve any negative result you feel you get. You have no right to complain if you do not participate. Make a difference, give your time or money or both.
    True leaders are willing to lead and not wait to follow. Are you willing to be one of them?

    Motivate your friends and family.

    Otherwise you will get what generation O depicts in his Emo Cartoon.
    http://mynonprofitwebsite.com/blog/category/emo-cartoon

  • MSW Wrote:

    Wow Thorin, hit a little hot spot there? You’ve got your opinion(s), I’ve got mine. God bless the USA and the right to express them… The one thing I am not doing however is making direct attacks on the candidate. I think I could come up with a few “quotes” myself if I wanted to “play” that way… I am still a democrate and will support my party no matter and you??

    ~

    Actually, I’m doing more than playing a rhetorical game. I’m asking a serious question. I know she’s smart. And I know she believes the children are our future, and we should not let republicans eat our children, and we should not let walmart sell children kababs…

    Honestly, I have no idea what her core beliefs are. I don’t know what she cares about. What democratic ideals she would fight for?

    I’d be interested to know what you think they are.

  • I live in Minnesota where we caucus. It was advertised all over television that if you showed up to caucus you could just vote and leave. Good thing too, because so many people showed up there would not have been enough room to hold all the people. So, no, you don’t have to stand around and listen to someone elses opinion. There definitely was not enough time for everyone to get into the building and vote. A primary would have been the better solution.

  • If you had one criteria to choose a president. the criteria being “Who makes the best commander in chief of our armed forces in time of war?” Who would you choose?
    McCain the war hero and all his background in leadership and military
    Hillary Clinton with 8 years in white house next to her husband, 7 years in arms services committee, 12 years first lady of Arkansa with bunch of full star generals backing her or
    Obama, with two years in Senate and no background in military? but he has a vision and can connect across the isle?
    answer:
    If you are Republican, congradulations, McCain wins. If you are democrat, and for Obama, you are the reason why McCain wins, we are screwed, because Obama looses in General election against McCain for this one reason only. Specially McCain has a history of reaching across the isle himself, and democrats like him, and also they don’t have the backbone to take a big risk about national security, demonstrated in previous elections and by their votes in congress in regard to national security and war, so enough of them will go for McCain to get him elected. Mark my words. I say if dems go with heart again and not head, and they don’t go for Clinton they have no chance to take the White House again folks

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