Obama eyes May 20; Clinton won’t ‘accept’ 2,025 finish line

In less than two weeks, the Obama campaign will have claimed a majority of the pledged delegates, and depending on the circumstances, possibly a majority of the superdelegates, too. At that point, according to one report today, the Obama campaign will feel comfortable claiming victory.

Not long after the polls close in the May 20 Kentucky and Oregon primaries, Barack Obama plans to declare victory in his bid for the Democratic presidential nomination.

And, until at least May 31 and perhaps longer, Hillary Clinton’s campaign plans to dispute it.

It’s a train wreck waiting to happen, with one candidate claiming to be the nominee while the other vigorously denies it, all predicated on an argument over what exactly constitutes the finish line of the primary race.

Yes, the finish line has been static for nearly a year now. The first candidate to get 2,025 delegates wins the nomination. As we get close to wrapping this contest up, though, the Clinton campaign has decided that the agreed-upon threshold needs to get pushed back a bit.

The Obama campaign agrees with the Democratic National Committee, which pegs a winning majority at 2,025 pledged delegates and superdelegates — a figure that excludes the penalized Florida and Michigan delegations. The Clinton campaign, on the other hand, insists the winner will need 2,209 to cinch the nomination — a tally that includes Florida and Michigan.

“We don’t accept 2,025. It is not the real number because that does not include Florida and Michigan,” said Howard Wolfson, one of Clinton’s two chief strategists. “It’s a phony number.”

Reasonable people can certainly disagree about the value of Obama declaring victory on May 20, but to call the DNC finish line “phony” doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Why? Because the Clinton campaign has been using this “phony number” for quite a while.

* Clinton used it on national television a month ago.

* Howard Wolfson has used the “phony number” he doesn’t “accept” in a strategy memo.

* The Clinton campaign has used it in press releases, too.

And therein lies the problem. It’s more than a little awkward to announce, after 50 of 56 contests have already been held, and after accepting the DNC’s agreed-upon finish line for nearly a year, that the 2,025 threshold the Clinton campaign has been aiming for no longer counts.

Of course, the good news for the Florida/Michigan dispute is that once the Clinton campaign packs it in, Obama will no doubt rush to ensure their delegations are seated at the convention. Yglesias noted this morning:

Nothing would do more to help resolve the Florida and Michigan issue than for Clinton to drop out and endorse Obama. If she did that, the only remaining issue would be to strike a balance between representing FL and MI at the convention and slapping FL and MI on the wrist hard enough that states don’t pull this kind of stunt again. That’s a needle you can thread any number of ways.

It’s the fact that the campaign is continuing that makes the question difficult to resolve because it has both campaigns focused on maximizing their delegate counts rather than dealing with the aforementioned issue. Which, I suppose, is part of what makes it such an appealing pretext for staying in the race — as a rationale it has a nice circular logic where the campaign can’t end ’till MI and FL are resolved, but the issue can’t be resolved until the campaign ends, so on and on we go.

Stay tuned.

There is really nothing to say from this side.

Go for it Obama boys and girls. You’ve earned it and I can’t deny you the opportunity.

“We don’t accept 2,025. It is not the real number because that does not include Florida and Michigan,” said Howard Wolfson, one of Clinton’s two chief strategists. “It’s a phony number.”

How freaking stupid.

I had expected the Obama Campaign to go on until they had nailed the nomination including Florida and Michagin, but if they don’t want to…

  • My disgust with the Democratic party has reached an all new level. They’re completely undisciplined. They don’t even know how to follow their own rules. Then they have a candidate who doesn’t seem to give a d-mn about their party and they don’t have the balls to tell her enough. If the Democrats lose this bid, they have only themselves to blame.

  • This seems like a bad idea to me. True, the primary contest has already been waaaaaay too long, but what is the major harm in waiting until May 31, or June 3? Sure, HRC could make this academic by bowing out gracefully May 20 or before, but that ain’t gonna happen. Declaring victory May 20 is just going to get Clinton’s back up against the wall and further inflame those who still support her, making it more likely they’ll abandon Obama in the general. And this to save a few bucks by not having to campaign in the couple of primaries after May 20?

  • I have super powers. My amazing mental abilities tell me that in this thread there shall soon appear those who claim that to deny MI and FL the right to have their votes counted amounts to massive disenfranchisement orchestrated by a scary black man and the hollow, meaningless campaign he runs. They will then proceed to state that should this state of affairs persist, they will not vote for Scary Black Man, therefore ensuring the doom of the entire Democratic Party through their mighty recalcitrance.

    I have spoken.

  • Obama has been claiming victory almost since he entered the race. Why wait until he has the majority of delegates? The nominee is the person nominated by the party, not the person who claims victory.

    It’s odd. People here seem to be saying that Clinton isn’t following the rules, but neither is Obama. For that matter, Dean isn’t either, stripping MI and FL of all their delegates when the rules say he should have taken 50%. Then there was the rule about not campaigning in FL which Obama broke by running ads there in the week before the election. But rules are for Clinton, not Obama.

    Where is the rule that says a candidate must quit whenever his or her opponent tells them to? Where is the rule that says no candidate gets to go to the convention unless Obama gives them permission? Where is the rule that says if a majority of Obama’s supporters think you should quit the race, then of course you have to?

  • I really thought (hoped) that things were winding down now – and even Clinton had to realize that. Surely both Clintons could see how damaging this campaign has been to their reputations and standings in the Democratic Party. WRONG!

    At this point I would be very unhappy if the money I have donated to Obama went to Clinton to pay off ANY campaign debts – especially the $11 million she loaned her own campaign. That would be taking the money from the REAL little people and giving it to the idiotic Washinton Insiders – just like what happens now.

  • Mary, Obama has NOT been claiming victory ever since he entered the race. What are you even talking about? Has he ever declared victory, in the overall primary, even once yet? When?

    And no opponent of Hillary Clinton’s is telling her to quit. It’s just everybody else, including common sense, that’s telling her to quit. Obama has never pressured her to do that. I definitely think she should quit, but that does not mean she has to, you’re right about that. It also doesn’t mean that we all can’t talk about how we think she should drop out. That’s fair game.

  • First off, someone needs to put Wolfson’s back to the wall—the “Political Firing Squad” wall, if you will—and ask him point blank how he justifies calling 2025 a “phony number” when his employer was part of the ratification of that number. The rule that excludes FL and MI from seating their delegations was adopted unanimously—and She-Unworthy-of-Naming was part of that rule’s adoption. Even contemplating a rollback to the original, pre-violation number would be the political flip-flop of all time.

    As for Spero’s concern @4—

    to save a few bucks by not having to campaign in the couple of primaries after May 20?

    —Allow the remaining contests to go ahead as scheduled, and then move those last primary states up to the front row, as the initial jumping-off point. Let THOSE states become the opening barrage in “The War on McPhony….”

  • Amazing superpowers from Belligerent Academic…

    He/she predicted Mary a full 2 minutes before her post…

  • Clinton’s intransigence makes perfect sense if their opinion is that America iss too racist to elect a black person.

    Ed Koch pretty much said it, and I’ll bet it’s their overall view.

  • Emily, Mary’s scared of the scary black man. She assigns all of society’s ills on the scary black man. Her candidate would be winning were it not for the scary man. Therefore, any negative characteristic she can assign to the scary black man, the scary black man has. All those speeches the scary black man about how it will be hard-fought campaign translates in Mary’s brain as the scary black man declaring victory the day he entered into the race. “Oh, waiter, Mary didn’t order any logic in her argument, please, take it back!”

  • I hope this is some kind of trial balloon, because I see no good reason for Obama to declare anything early—unless HRC goes completely off the deep end…

    I hate this idea.

  • Up is down, right is wrong, hate is love, war is peace, and magical flying bunnies are everywhere! WEEEEE!!!!!!!

  • Obama Doomsday Scenario Contest Results!

    Yesterday, Trailhead invited readers to imagine what would have to happen for Barack Obama to lose the Democratic nomination. And boy did you respond. You, dear readers, are a motley assortment of creative and disturbed geniuses.

    Scenarios tended to fall into a few categories: embarrassing revelations, major screw-ups, Clinton ex machinas, and unfortunate occurrences. Others involved Obama turning out to be someone—or something—other than himself, such as the Rev. Jeremiah Wright (“note that you never see the Rev. & Obama in the same place!”), “the smoke monster from Lost,” Dennis Kucinich in disguise, and John McCain’s illegitimate black child. Several other scenarios involved zombie attacks and alien invasions. Yet another described a heinous Aristocrats-like stage performance by the Obama family.

    We can’t possibly share them all, but here’s a sampling organized by category. Winners are at the bottom.

    Embarrassing revelations:

    Obama is actually 34 years old, too young to be president.—Marc Sylvestre

    Video surfaces of Obama at that Rev. Wright “God Damn America” sermon that he claims he didn’t attend, especially if the video shows him applauding that statement.—Brian Weber

    Obama photographed raising pinky while sipping latte!—Benjamin Clark

    Customs agents find one of Natalee Holloway’s “Carlos ’n Charlie’s Aruba” T-shirts in his luggage.—Tom Grayman

    Obama’s opening his mail while being interviewed by Bill O’Reilly. He drops a Hallmark card. O’Reilly helpfully picks it up for him and reads the inscription: “Barack: Thanks for the visa! See you soon! Your BFF, Nadhmi.”—Boyd Reed

    Pictures of an 8-year-old Obama in his local neighborhood bomb-making class with William Ayers and other Weather Undergrounders.—Jen Geiger

    The Drudge Report uncovers shocking photographic evidence that Barack Obama and Osama Bin Laden were actually college roommates. … They depict Bin Laden doing keg stands while Obama stands to the side holding his turban and counting in Arabic.—Rudy Santelises

    He shot Alexander Hamilton. And there’s video.—Andrew Rice

    Reader Mark Schondorf submits a whole list of shocking twists, including: “Hillary summons a Kraken”; “Obama was a ghost THE WHOLE TIME!!!”; “Hillary goes back in time to kill Obama’s mother”; “Hillary wins because, as it turns out, she’s Keyser Söze”; and “Unbelievably, the aliens are afraid of water.”

    Major screw-ups:

    Obama confesses that the blackout “ending” of the series finale of The Sopranos was his idea.—Scott Schiefelbein

    The only way that Obama could possibly lose the nomination is if video of him punching a baby surfaced.—Nick Wilhelmy

    There is only one unforgivable crime in America … dogfighting.—Tom Bianchi

    The reason he doesn’t believe the government created AIDS is because he did.—Shane Mehling

    Clinton ex machina:

    The best scenario for Hillary is to run as John McCain’s running mate. And for McCain to die.—Dea Henrich [So Obama would still be the nominee, but we had to include.—Ed.]

    The Clinton campaign digs up records in the National Archives proving that Hawaii was not a state at the time of Obama’s birth, thereby making him ineligible.—Pamela Belyn

    Bill Clinton starts campaigning on his behalf before June 3.—Eric Samuels

    Hillary sheds two tears.—Jon Cowan

    Unfortunate occurrences:

    Obama will need to be photographed windsurfing … and then get eaten by a shark.—Stephen Defibaugh

    Obama, trying to fit in with the Oregon locals, goes on a white-water rafting tour arranged by Lanny Davis Excursions.—Boyd Reed

    Hillary invites Barack to her home in Chappaqua to talk about ending the race. The visit eerily resembles the movie Misery.—Boyd Reed

    The winners: The best submissions managed to make a concise joke, summarize all of Obama’s vulnerabilities at once, or vividly capture the mind-bending paucity of Clinton’s odds of survival. Here are three that did the job:

    3rd place: Hillary appeals to the Supreme Court, which, based upon a 2000 ruling, decides that the candidate with fewer votes wins the election.—John Kirkbride

    2nd place: Hillary Clinton must parachute into Pakistan while under heavy sniper fire, infiltrate al-Qaida using a fake beard, putty nose, and duct tape, and capture Osama Bin Laden, whilst singing the “Star Spangled Banner” with one hand over her heart and an American flag lapel pin prominently shown on her outfit. She must film all of this in HD and create a montage scored to Lee Greenwood’s “God Bless the U.S.A.” Meanwhile, Barack Obama must publicly convert to Islam and change his name to Osama Hafez al-Mohammed Hussein Ayatollah Obama, while burning an American flag in the Crystal Cathedral as he replaces the crucifix with a do-it-yourself Piss Christ, while performing an abortion on the exhumed body of Terri Schiavo. He should also be naked. It should then rain frogs. That ought to do it.—Jason in San Diego

    1st place: One of the lesser-known consequences of quantum physics is an event called “quantum tunneling.” Here’s how it happens: At a campaign stop in West Virgina, completely out of the blue, the aggregate wave functions of all the particles in Barack Obama’s body end up instantaneously transporting him through the entire Earth and leaving him treading water somewhere in the Indian Ocean, or leaving his various particles scattered inside the mantle. The odds of this occurring are such that any macroscopic object tunneling through any barrier is highly unlikely in the lifespan of the universe, but it could occur!—Michael Blessington

    Thank you for the submissions. You heard them here first!

    Published Thursday, May 08, 2008 2:48 PM by Christopher Beam

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/trailhead/archive/2008/05/08/obama-doomsday-scenario-contest-results.aspx

  • Wow, tough nuggets Hillary, you agreed to these rules. Does anyone really believe she’d be pushing this hard (or at all) if her role were reversed? I have zero sympathy for her. I just want her to go away now.

  • How do you think the Clintons would react if Hillary was in Obama’s position, and it was Obama who began insisting that 2,025 wasn’t acceptable? Their hypocrisy is staggering.

  • […] to call the DNC finish line “phony” doesn’t make a lot of sense.

    Why? Because the Clinton campaign has been using this “phony number” for quite a while. — CB

    To preempt IFP (since Mary has already delivered her salvo):
    Like all good strategists, Clinton adjusts her arguments and tactics according to the changing conditions on the ground; that’s exactly the kind of quick thinking and lightning-speed reaction w need to see in our future C-i-C.

    To return to reality:
    As we all know, the issue of seating Michigan and Florida, became the burning issue of voter disenfranchisement only recently; to begin with, Sen. Clinton had been perfectly content to have it so. In fact, some in her own campaign co-signed the book on those rules. That they only now began to question the “phony number” is, as usual, due to the campaign’s incompetence — they’ve, probably, *just* discovered that 2025 doesn’t include those two “disenfranchised” states…

  • The best news for me at this point is that by the time Hillary is done with all of this, the Clinton brand will be so indelibly tarnished that no one will take her nonsense seriously in the future. I, for one, have heard as much Hillary Clinton over the last few months as I ever need to hear.

  • doubtful, @16,

    I’ll bring my own (elitist) dry white wine, but you provide arugula. OK?

  • You know, Clinton and her supporters like Mary remind me of that psychotic lover who, once told the relationship is over, refuses to accept it.

    Instead, the PL (Psychotic Lover) decides that the breakup wasn’t official because it happened on an answering machine.

    So they have a person-to-person phone call, but the PL decides it’s still not official because it wasn’t done in person.

    So they have a face-to-face conversation, but the PL decides even that still isn’t enough because it wasn’t in writing.

    So the really-just-wants-it-to-be-over dumper writes a letter to the PL explaining — in outlined detail — the reasons and terms of the breakup.

    The PL decides that STILL isn’t enough and spend all night on the lawn, yelling incoherent pleas toward the window of the person the PL just can’t let go, in the hopes maybe this will be the “game changer” and make the PL whole again.

    And that’s the problem — these people just can’t accept the fact the people HAVE spoken and they have made up their minds. Even if MI and FL are seated, she STILL won’t have enough. Even if she wins by double-digits in the remaining contests, she STILL won’t have enough.

    She. Can’t. Win.

    So she has to keep changing the terms and conditions. To do otherwise is to acknowledge reality. And some people just aren’t good at doing that.

  • Did you read the Clinton pre-Florida press release that CB linked to? It said, “Regardless of today’s outcome [in South Carolina], the race quickly shifts to Florida, where hundreds of thousands of Democrats will turn out to vote on Tuesday. Despite efforts by the Obama campaign to ignore Floridians, their voices will be heard loud and clear across the country, as the last state to vote before Super Tuesday on February 5th.”

    Efforts by Obama to ignore Floridians? SHE SIGNED THE SAME PLEDGE HE DID!!!

    Such comments to the national press are a clear violation of the Four State Pledge that Hillary signed in which she agreed not to “campaign or participate” in the Florida election. This press release is, itself, “campaigning and participating” in the Florida election.

    She cheated, and she now wants to benefit from her cheating.

  • First: I love this site, the Benen posts and the dialogues that follow. Thanks. Second, I know we’re all plum tuckered out, but this extended primary season has an upside: 1) millions more are engaged, have registered, and are taking part in the process, including states that usually get ignored (see Gail Collins today in NYT); 2) we’ve had a chance to our candidates tested, how they dip and rebound; 3) Obama, new to national politics, has learned a few lessons and is tougher; 4) Hillary, and it makes me so sad to see this as a Democrat and a woman, has resorted — and maybe her advisors are to blame, but she hired them — to awful mud-slinging including veiled and not veiled racist arguments that are, frankly, nauseating; 5) we’ve begun to have serious, adult discussions of race so long overdue; 6) it looks like (slowly I turned) Democrats are finally focusing on McCain, also overdue; 7) we’re talking about core ethical issues such as a) Who is above the rules, Should anyone be above the rules, and Why rules matter, and b) guilt by association — where do we draw the line and why? (This, by the way, applies to all three candidates.) These are authentic American questions, and I’m glad we’re talking about them. Sorry about the lists within lists, but everyone here can fill in the outline. What’s great, and forgive me if this sounds Pollyanna-ish, is that we’re thinking and talking, not just reacting to Republican frames.

  • @ 11:

    Amazing superpowers from Belligerent Academic…

    He/she predicted Mary a full 2 minutes before her post…

    It’s true. The mental image I had was of myself, short and slight, in a too-large Doctor Doom costume, gesturing grandly while my cape blows in the breeze of an off-panel box fan.

    There’s your visual for the day. However [looking around], I may have shot myself in the foot by making my prediction openly. Next time, I’ll keep it to myself until after it’s come true, then proclaim my retroactive wisdom. It’s how those Bible Code folks do it, and I guess that’s good enough for me.

  • john said @8, “At this point I would be very unhappy if the money I have donated to Obama went to Clinton to pay off ANY campaign debts – especially the $11 million she loaned her own campaign. That would be taking the money from the REAL little people and giving it to the idiotic Washinton Insiders – just like what happens now.

    Hear hear. Donating any portion of my monthly $25 donations to Obama to a couple who made $20 million-plus per year for the last several years would piss me off.

  • What would happen if Obama, without declaring Democratic Nomination vicotry, just started campaigning against McCain ever so subtly?

    My opponents want a gas tax holiday!
    My opponent has been in Wahington too long! Doing business the old way!
    My opponent voted for the Iraq war!
    My opponent on the Straight Talk Express is throwing free BBQs for the media and with holding tax returns!

  • I’ll bring my own (elitist) dry white wine, but you provide arugula. OK? -libra

    Arugula!? Is that elitist for ‘lettuce?’ Haha.

  • I’ve never forgiven Hillary for supporting the war resolution. But I haven’t actively disliked her. Indeed I’ve admired her in some ways. Today I feel great animosity toward her for her selfish refusal to accept reality and do what is right for the party and the country.

  • When my little niece changes the rules in the middle of the game so she can win, it’s cute, because she’s 6 years old.

    When someone running for President does it, it’s just embarrassing.

    Come March ’09, 2 months after the new President is sworn in, whill Clinton still be campaigning, saying that “despite what the elite say, I’m fighting on” ???

  • Mark D, @23,

    What you describe is called “stalking”. You call the police and complain, then get a restraining order from the court. Then hope you don’t end up on a morgue slab.

  • Party at my place on 5/20. BYOB.

    I don’t need to ask what race you are. As we all know, a white American would provide all refreshments for his or her guests, not use throwing a party as an excuse to cadge free booze.

    To preempt IFP (since Mary has already delivered her salvo):
    Like all good strategists, Clinton adjusts her arguments and tactics according to the changing conditions on the ground; that’s exactly the kind of quick thinking and lightning-speed reaction w need to see in our future C-i-C.

    (Grudgingly) Good parody of me. I was thinking about becoming offended, but being mocked and trashed by supporters of Mr. Half-Breed is par for the course, and I’m used to it now. Like Hillary, I have a skin tougher than leather at this point.

  • Speaking of the gas tax holiday, even though I don’t drive I decided to take the amount of money that I was supposedly going to save and donated it to the Obama campaign.

  • On May 8th, 2008 at 2:45 pm, Mary said:
    Obama has been claiming victory almost since he entered the race.

    Oh Mary, this is just patently false. In fact, it was Clinton who ran as the encumbent candidate, the inevitable candidate, the practically annointecandidate, from the beginning…on the strength of Bill Clinton’s presidency. To be sure, the Clinton years had their good points, but let’s face it, Hillary Clinton was not the POTUS.

    Getting back to your assertion, Barack Obama did voice confidence in his ability. And yes, he has said that he and his inner circle decided to run when they saw a path to victory, but that is not the same thing as claiming victory from the beginning. And I recall many times in the days leading up to Super Tuesday when Obama said things like, this is going to be a tough fight…or we feel we are going to do well on Super Tuesday. But I do not recall him or his surrogates saying anything so blatent as a claim of victory even up to today.

    There is certainly a lot of movement and buzz to that effect now, for good reason. The math is looking more and more difficult for Clinton to overcome. Now, I will say that I believe Clinton has the right to stay in until the last primary is done, but for the good of the party if she hasn’t overtaken Obama in delegates or the popular vote, then she should concede. I would say the same thing for Obama if the roles were reversed.

  • She won’t “accept” it? What is she going to do? Hold her breath and stomp her feet? She’s not in charge anymore!

  • Like Hillary, I have a skin tougher than leather at this point. -IFP

    But…isn’t leather brown?

  • “It’s odd. People here seem to be saying that Clinton isn’t following the rules, but neither is Obama. For that matter, Dean isn’t either, stripping MI and FL of all their delegates when the rules say he should have taken 50%. Then there was the rule about not campaigning in FL which Obama broke by running ads there in the week before the election. But rules are for Clinton, not Obama.”

    Mary – first of all the rules stripping FL and MI of 50% of their delegates are the REPUBLICAN rules; it was clear from the beginning that the DNC was going to strip them of 100% of their delegates. (I live in Florida and I know this to be the truth). They were warned and both Obama and Clinton agreed. Secondly, Obama did NOT run ads in Florida. Those ads were NATIONAL ads run on cable stations. Neither candidate ran ads on the local stations (of which there are 5). Try using facts in your arguments, not bullshit.

  • Hey…want to create a real tax revenue stream? Tax the gas coming from the Clinton campaign ;-P

  • I think it is pretty disgraceful of people that don’t live in Florida or Michigan to think that those people should not have a say in who wins the nomination. If one of you lived there and your vote didn’t count I bet you would sure be irked. The nomination is suppose to be by all the people not just some. Is the democratic party splitting? I think so because I have voted Democratic for 34 years but if Obama wins – guess what – If I have to vote for a liberal
    I think I will vote for the best liberal — McCain (not Obama )

  • Randy, rules are rules. Tough nuggets. No one gets to change them in mid stream. sorry. How about Obama supporters in MI who couldn’t vote for him because he was not on the ballot? Your argument is blatant horse waste, to put it bluntly. Sorry… And if you truly are a Democrat, isn’t it the height of childishness to vote against a candidate who is 90% similar to your instead of an extension of the Bush administration just because you didn’t win? Sheesh, you folks need to get a grip. You’re the ones who brought the nasty, it is now your time to make amends.

  • #42 Randy – I LIVE in Florida so perhaps you, who evidently don’t live in either state, are talking through your own hat. And frankly, any so-called Democrat who would vote for McCain if Obama is the nominee obviously neither really supports the Democratic platform, or the policies of the Dem candidates. It makes me question your reasons for supporting Clinton then. And calling McCain a “liberal?” Perhaps you should check his voting record!!

  • I think I will vote for the best liberal — McCain (not Obama )

    You, sir, are a fool.

    McCain is about as much of a liberal as George Bush is.

    Oh, and I’m a Floridian…I knew my vote wouldn’t count when I voted because those were the rules. And I don’t think the rules should be changed in the middle of the game. But thanks for the concern (troll) about my ‘disenfranchisement’.

  • BA @ 5, close, so very, very close…all but the scary black dude (this time).

    DaddyO @ 23, THAT was priceless!

    Sounds like you’ve been there…and now it seems like we are all there…with no end in sight. That breakup just ain’t gonna happen. Let the stalking begin (er, continue).

  • Clinton won’t ‘accept’ 2,025 finish line

    Kinda like how a horse with two broken ankles acts when it gets spooked…
    Not a lot of brains there.
    Just dumb adrenalin.

  • The Clinton campaign…insists the winner will need 2,209 to cinch the nomination — a tally that includes Florida and Michigan.

    “We don’t accept 2,025.

    Well, fine. Since it isn’t up to the Clinton campaign (you can’t be a player and the referee, too), you guys keep fighting until you get 2,209, while Obama walks away with the nomination at 2,025.

  • one gets the distinct impression that, with the clinton campaign’s attempts to move the goalposts and their regular attempts to revise the rules, that if we want 4 more years of the same shit we really don’t have to look to the republicans.

  • entheo – my impression as well. This also reminds me of playing games as a kid when the winner first had to have 10 points, then 20 points, etc. etc. to win.

  • Susan F (#25),
    8) Obama now has solid organizations in place in nearly 50 states.

    #51
    Bush was reportedly notorious at college for exactly the same behavior – arguing the rules and moving the goalposts until he got lucky and something went his way.

    Joe @#27
    I had the same initial reaction of “no way in hell” to the idea of my contributions to Obama going to cover Clinton’s debt. However,on further reflection I contributed to help him win the White House, and if paying off Clinton would convert her from an opponent who will cost him the White House to a supporter who will help him win it, it will be money well spent. Your contributions and mine went 99.9% or so to buying time for ads on TV stations, to very small effect (a lot of people basically have been voting the way they were going to a month before their primary). Another hard fought primary could be another $5-$25 million on TV ads – compared to that, $5 million to get Her Highness to campaign for Obama rather than against him looks like the best deal this whole election season.

  • Dang, that smiley started as a number eight to add on to Susan’s list.

    I wish we had after-the-post editing here.

  • um….hillary. you don’t get to make the rules. the DNC makes the rules. you agreed to that a long time ago.

  • Like Hillary, I have a skin tougher than leather at this point. -IFP

    But…isn’t leather brown? — doubtful, @38

    I guess she’s a *white* sacred cow…

  • If She-Unworthy-of-Naming refuses to accept anything less than 2209, does that mean she’s renouncing all delegates-to-date?

    This could be spun as a concession speech, y’know….

  • I agree with punkerdubh.

    “Come back here [Obama]! I’ll bite your knees off!”

  • If this is just another desperate ploy to keep a losing game in play it’s bad enough, but if she really wants to try and change the goal posts at this late date, then she’s absolute toast for the future particularly if Obama loses the general. There is no way I would even consider her in 2012, and I would work to get her out of the Senate. The Clintons have truly revealed themselves, and I’m repelled at what I see. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

  • Considering that Wolfson was one of the “Democratic leaders” who DEVISED THIS RULE, this is the absolute height of hypocrisy.

    The Clinton Party is now officially its own extralegal authoritiarian movement. There’s a one-word name for that kind of thing and it starts with “F”.

  • “Like Hillary, I have a skin tougher than leather at this point.” -IFP

    doubtful said: “But…isn’t leather brown?”

    Just like a standard American, never worked with any animal product (other than food) in his life. Nope, most tanned cow’s leather is just that, tan. Hardly darker than a caucasian’s skin tone. You have to dye it to get it brown, red or black.

  • Comments are closed.