Obama, McCain spar over supporting the troops

I’ve been obsessing over John McCain’s incoherent opposition to a modernized GI Bill for veterans, so I was especially pleased to see Barack Obama, at a campaign stop in West Virginia, help elevate the issue and hammer McCain for his misguided position. From the speech:

“When our troops go into battle, they serve no faction or party; they represent no race or region. They are simply Americans. They serve and fight and bleed together out of loyalty not just to a place on a map or a certain kind of people, but to a set of ideals that we have been striving for since the first shots rang out at Lexington and Concord – the idea that America could be governed not by men, but by laws; that we could be equal in the eyes of those laws; that we could be free to say what we want and write what want and worship as we please; that we could have the right to pursue our individual dreams but the obligation to help our fellow citizens pursue theirs.

“[W]hen our loved ones do come home, it is time for the United States of America to offer this generation of returning heroes the same thanks we offered that earlier, Greatest Generation – by giving every veteran the same opportunity that my grandfather had under the GI Bill.

“There is no reason we shouldn’t pass the 21st Century GI Bill that is being debated in Congress right now. It was introduced by my friend Senator Jim Webb, a Marine who served as Navy Secretary under President Ronald Reagan. His plan has widespread support from Republicans and Democrats. It would provide every returning veteran with a real chance to afford a college education, and it would not harm retention.

“I have great respect for John McCain’s service to this country and I know he loves it dearly and honors those who serve. But he is one of the few Senators of either party who oppose this bill because he thinks it’s too generous. I couldn’t disagree more. At a time when the skyrocketing cost of tuition is pricing thousands of Americans out of a college education, we should be doing everything we can to give the men and women who have risked their lives for this country the chance to pursue the American Dream.”

Nicely done. McCain has gotten a free ride on this, and Obama’s criticism should elevate the matter considerably.

The McCain campaign quickly responded: “It is absurd for Barack Obama to question John McCain’s commitment to America’s veterans, when Obama himself voted against funding our nation’s veterans, and troops in the field during a time of war. Voters need a leader with uncompromising judgment, and will reject Barack Obama’s decision to vote against funding our troops in the field, after he said it would be irresponsible to do so.”

Good. This is what campaigns are all about.

You’ll notice, of course, that the McCain campaign’s response didn’t come close to responding to Obama’s point. They didn’t even try. I don’t blame them, necessarily, since I can’t think of a good defense for McCain opposing a bipartisan measure to expand educational benefits for veterans, either.

As for Obama voting against the “troops in the field during a time of war,” it’s worth taking a closer look at the accusation. When Obama voted this way (along with most Dems, including Hillary Clinton), it was the only option available to war opponents to change the administration’s policy. Obama’s position was endorsed by most Americans — polls showed strong support in favor of cutting off funding. McCain, obviously, disagreed.

But before McCain gets too self-righteous about supporting the troops in harm’s way, we might want to consider how McCain felt when Bill Clinton was president and McCain didn’t care for his military policies.

For example, when Republicans didn’t like the conflict in Somalia in 1993, the congressional GOP decided Congress had all kinds of authority to intervene and shape U.S. military policy, whether the president liked it or not. On Oct. 19, 1993, John McCain argued that Congress had the power to force Clinton to begin an “immediate, orderly withdrawal from Somalia.” He added, “[I]f we do not do that and other Americans die, other Americans are wounded, other Americans are captured because we stay too long — longer than necessary — then I would say that the responsibilities for that lie with the Congress of the United States who did not exercise their authority under the Constitution of the United States.”

What’s more, McCain introduced a measure to cut off funding for the troops while they were in harm’s way. He later changed his mind, but McCain nevertheless argues now that anyone who even considers such a move is untrustworthy.

So, what do we have here? The McCain campaign can’t defend its own position on troop benefits, and is blasting Obama for pursuing a military policy option that McCain himself embraced a decade earlier.

Beats debating pins and pastors, doesn’t it?

I love it when you find quotes to show the Republicans lack consistency.

I believe that you wrote that On Oct. 19, 1993, John McCain argued that Congress had the power to force BUSH to begin an “immediate, orderly withdrawal from IRAQ.”

I suppose I should remove the quotes but isn’t that EXACTLY what McCain meant?

  • The Republican response to any substantive criticism of anything: “Look! Over there! A shiny object!!”

    Worthless scum that they are.

  • “My friends, I want to be absolutely certain that our young men chose to stay in the military, not to run off the first chance they get to pursue a so-called ‘higher education.’ Young Senator Obama, of course, supports a plan to encourage our brave soldiers to desert.”

    I’m really looking forward to this.

  • And then there’s this.

    In 2005 and 2006, McCain voted against expanding mental healthcare and readjustment counseling for service members returning from Iraq and Afghanistan, efforts to expand inpatient and outpatient treatment for injured veterans, and proposals to lower co-payments and enrollment fees veterans must pay to obtain prescription drugs.

  • McCain’s obviously just trying to keep our young and impressionable veterans from becomings elitists.

  • Maybe McCain is hoping that Iraq will be going so well that the troops will want to stay there and attend those new schools that are being built all the time.

    Seriously, McCain’s BS about Obama not supporting the troops will resonate with the people who we will never get, and that BS will really resonate within the McCain bubble, so he will keep saying shit like that, thinking that it will work on the general public. Hopefully he will refuse to believe the polling data and never question whether he has a bubble problem.

    And I wonder how many Democratic bills with regards to body armor and hummvee armor McCain voted against?

  • John McCain knows what the average military veteran needs. If anything goes wrong on the professional side, they can just look to their own admiral-father or admiral-grandfather for help, right? And if they need financial help, well, that’s why God created beer distributor heiresses.

  • The nuances of Obama’s position will be lost on the average voter. They will only hear McCain’s complaint that Obama voted against funding for the troops. Not your more complex argument about why Obama voted as he did. Yet, you consider this exchange some sort of triumph for Obama? He needs to do better than this if he is to make any inroads among people not already enamored of him.

  • “What’s more, McCain introduced a measure to cut off funding for the troops while they were in harm’s way. He later changed his mind, but McCain nevertheless argues now that anyone who even considers such a move is untrustworthy.”

    Well, I at least halfway agree with McCain, being that I don’t trust McCain at all.

  • Mary, the absence of subtleties wont matter if, in November as when the poll was taken, a majority of Americans favored cutting funding for the occupation in Iraq. It is highly unlikely that the poll involved the subtleties – indeed, it was likely at the most generic level: “Do you favor or oppose efforts in Congress to stop further funding of the military action in Iraq” or some such thing. The Obama/Clinton et al position polled well. No reason to think it wont as the conflict drags on even longer.

  • The nuances of Obama’s position will be lost on the average voter. -Mary

    And Clintonistas call Obama supporters the elitists.

    Mary, your inability to grasp simple concepts should not be extrapolated to all of America.

  • McCain doesn’t care about the troops as people only as political fodder. He smiles and shakes hands and plays oh so nice “my friends” but sees troops as being capable of making rich the privatized health care companies who win contracts from Walter Reed because they are the ‘lowest bidders’ yet still have to show a profit to shareholders (which also had the effect of running off dedicated health care professionals who refuse to be a part of the privatized medical fiasco).

    Casualties are easily acceptable losses for someone who wants to bomb the hell out of everything (except when a dem president is in control, then congress needs to tie his hands) and feed more troops into the grinder…as many as it takes…for as long as it takes…. Hey McCain…SUPPORTING THE TROOPS MEANS PROTECTING THEM AND SHOWING YOUR APPRECIATION…not just throwing medals on their dead or wounded bodies with lip service. You have no trouble awarding contracts that pay millions to companies who pay their personnel to do what our troops are doing at double + salary yet bitch about providing a higher education incentive to our soldiers? That demonstrates where your priorities are and they aren’t with supporting the troops.

  • BUT no mention of the fact that McCain – just days ago said he would NEVER vote against ANY benefit for veterans.

    AND now of course, he’s voting against Sen. Webb’s proposal.

  • “…I have great respect for John McCain’s service to this country and I know he loves it dearly and honors those who serve. …”

    At least he certainly has been in a position to manipulate the hell out of it being born to military affluence and now hot dogging in his wife’s jet. He never had to worry about paying for higher education or being any closer to war than the fly screen on some arcade like video bomb dropping game. He certainly got a taste of torture but not war. He’s certainly changed his mind on torture and now turns his back on GIs.

    BTW…the first two paragraphs of Obama’s speech were beautifully written…McCain’s response ( “oh yeah…oh yeah well you didn’t support”… blah blah blah) could have been written in crayon.

  • joey said:

    “…BTW…the first two paragraphs of Obama’s speech were beautifully written…McCain’s response ( “oh yeah…oh yeah well you didn’t support”… blah blah blah) could have been written in crayon.”

    Actually, I think Mary wrote it…

  • John McCain is getting a 100% disability pension from the VA, which he certainly does not need, also government healthcare, which comes with his senate position, also with the VA.I cannot imagine how he has the cheek to deny anything for our troops.

  • I’m not sure about those “first shots (which) rang out at Lexington and Concord but I thought the following two snippets were *absolutely brilliant*:
    1) […] the same opportunity that my grandfather had under the GI Bill.
    and
    2)[…] my friend Senator Jim Webb, a Marine who served as Navy Secretary under President Ronald Reagan.

    The first suggests “my grandpa wasn’t an admiral, he was more like you. But he still was able to make something of himself, thanks to this country” (and so did you, and so will your children, if only McCain doesn’t stop it)
    The second reminds them where ex-cohorts of St Ronnie (and people who really know something about the issue), and that’s on the same side as he is.

    Very, very nice indeed.

  • My thoughts exactly, Libra. This is a winning issue not just for policy matters (and because it’s the right thing to do!) but because it helps Obama remind people of those connections.

  • Mark, can you trust McCain to phrase things the way they appear in polls? He will not be presenting this in a simplistic way or even an honest way, but will reframe it to embarrass Obama. That is what I was referring to. It won’t matter that lots of people wanted to defund the war. They will only hear that Obama wanted to defund the troops and that won’t play well, even with those who oppose the war (as most people now do).

    doubtful — notice how politely Mark Pencil offers his corrections, even though he and I have disagreed before on many things. That is the constructive way to have a discussion with someone.

  • The nuances of Obama’s position will be lost on the average voter. -Mary

    The average voter is broke and has been beaten over the head with this “doesn’t support the troops” scam for eight years, even an old cynic who’s been around the galaxies can’t believe there’s people still falling for that. Ah, then I see them almost every day, but they’re much more lonely now, troubled, confused, muttering to themselves, “the economy’s good, the economy’s good…surge working, surge working…count money, count money…”

    What got us here, finishing the eight year Bush wealth securing marathon, was the voters. Two kinds:

    Dumb – Bush/Cheney2000 & Dumber – Bush/Cheney2004

    Those that still insist they don’t regret it are mentally ill at this point.

  • This is a great issue for Obama. For McCain, not taking care of veterans is not taking care of your own and by extension, if elected, McCain won’t take care of us.
    McCain’s response is just a string of non-sequitors, he needed to respond by challenging the criticism head-on and personally. Countering the attack with a bunch of out-of-context Senate votes is bringing a knife to a gun fight.

  • doubtful — notice how politely Mark Pencil offers his corrections, even though he and I have disagreed before on many things. — Mary, @19

    Mary, I don’t know what you and Mark might have disagreed on in he past; both of you are Hillary’s supporters. The main… nay, the *only* difference between the two of you is that he’s at the sane end of the spectrum and you not so much. Which is why he’s a pleasure to read, and you.. not so much.

  • ah yes..the united states of amnesia…how else can you refer to the founding fathers …as if to infer some level of historical integrity…and then to somehow equate their very distinct aversion to foreign policy based on imperialism(aka New American progressive blah blah blah…)with labeling our merchants of war as returning “heroes”…pathetic…look in the mirror folks…we are living in a country who’s foreign policy template should be called for what it is…murder,Inc….our “moral compass” is the veritable roulette of death…best you not get caught beneath the descending democracy building tool such as a GBU-28 bunker buster bomb…

    BTW..for those who seek comfort in labels…I would pick Obama over Hillary if forced to…although it’s most likely irrelevant as I suspect both would maintain the Congress as Israeli occupied territory.

  • I watched all of Senator Obama’s WV speech and, while I’m still a strong supporter, I have to say that I was deeply disappointed. Even though I understand his political motivations, it saddens me to hear a putative “Progressive” continuing to beat the “support the troops” drum.. The President won’t end the war, Congress won’t end the war and the American people, insulated from the bloody horror wrought by their government, show no inclination to take to the streets to end the war. The only way this mess ends is if the men and women needed to carry it out refuse to do so. Rather than encouraging them to do exactly that, we laud them as heroes, and try to do whatever we can (or at least try to say whatever we can) to make it easier and more profitable for them to enlist in this illegal, immoral and horribly un-American misadventure. And they’re somehow “fighting for American ideals?” Bullsh*t. They’re fighting for the ideals of G.W. Bush and his demented cronies. And there’s no way that deserves the support of any truly patriotic American.

  • Wheresthebeef your not much of an American or a human being are you? I have nothing but respect for people in the military because of the level of trust they place in our country and the level of risk they take (with little reward). Supporting these people (even in wars you don’t agree with) is the moral thing to do. The very fact that these people joined the military knowing that they weren’t allowed to only pick the missions the politically agreed with shows a level of trust in our government and its leaders that isn’t seen too often and deserves respect. The bargain they make is that our leaders take on the responsibility of deciding when and where to best use them. Its plain stupid to blame them when those same leaders have failed them. We elected Bush, we allowed him to invade Iraq, we re-elected him again, we failed to stop the war, we owe them, and we owe them even more in light of our failures. The fact that you want to blame people in the military for not stopping the war is despicable. This is a democracy so its ultimately all of our responsibility.

  • Hello.

    That’s what I like.

    My dad called it common sense.

    Some call it the facts.

    Love your article… keep up the good work.

    Don’t forget to vote folks.

  • Here, here Edward. I have a friend from college serving in Iraq. He signed up for the National Guard, you know, to do things like help rescue people suffering in natural disasters like Hurricane Katrina. Not everyone there signed up to go to Iraq, or even Afghanistanor.

  • I served over twenty years in the USAF from 1962 through 1982, retiring as a Master Sergent. Somehow I never went to Viet Nam, instead spending the entire time fighting the cold war. After being spit at and picketed in California, called names and ‘baby killer’ in other places, it’s been really great seeing how the last ten years have changed the public view of soldiers (I hated being called a ‘troop’). On the other hand, the Bush administration’s method of “supporting the troops” has been handing out band-aids, donuts and coffee. Any soldier expects politicians to send them to war, possibly to be wounded or killed. They also expect to have reasonably good medical care when they get back – that part’s been proven to be missing in action thanks to this administration. I had a GI bill that I used as did many of my generation. Why doesn’t today’s soldier? What – it costs too much? Sen. Webb’s bill won’t cost as much as one bad day in Iraq. The politicians on both sides that oppose this bill are many of the same ones who sent these soldiers to war, but other than buy imported vinyl ribbons to put on their imported cars, they don’t support anyone but themselves.

  • LIBERAL DEMOCRAPS ARE TRAITORS TO THE USA. VOTE REPUBLICAN IN 2008

    In the last 50 years, liberals(LIKE OBAMA) have sided with every enemy that America has had.

    Viet Cong troops were loved by Hanoi Jane and Hanoi John and you liberals supported the communist troops over those of us that were drafted and had to go over there

    Communist USSR – Stalin was called “Uncle Joe” by Liberals (commie loving scumbags) while he exterminated close to 25 million people.

    Cuba – Fidel a folk hero loved by liberals everywhere

    Venezuela – Chevez, another communist dictator revered and loved by liberals

    Terrorist Nations and terrorist groups (they’re peaceful people who hate women / anyone who’s not in their particular sect / behead people / blow themselves up as well as children

    2. Show their complete hatred of any thing patriotic and Christian

    3. Teach children that perverts are living an alternate and wholesome lifestyle.

    4. Believe that murderers and other deviates are just mis-understood people that shouldn’t be in prison. “If only we could have a talk with them and point out how their behavior disappoints us”….. this also works with terrorists, maybe they just need a timeout!

    5. Liberal support of illegal scumbags causing crime, getting free medical care, subsidized housing and food, free schooling all paid for by us taxpayers.

    6. Demanding and passing laws that give criminals more rights than victims.

    7. Yesterday one of you liberals on here posted saying you were looking for a site that was something like “f&^k the troops” and saying that they wanted to find the site and say how much they supported them. Proving again that you phony liberals don’t really “Support Our Troops” its just another pack of PC lies covering up your hatred of this country.

    And many more ways…. They want to change America to the “new communism” as some of you liberals have told me (being anonymous here allows you liberals to state what your goals actually are).

    Go to this site dedicated to the communist party: http://www.cpusa.org and see that they have recommended every liberal democrat candidate that has run for the presidency during the last 4 or 5 elections and probably more. Read the communist stated goals, compare them to the goals set by the democrats….. suprise! they’re the same. UNLIKE LIBERALS WHO LOOK AT THIS AS A PLUS…..
    I DON’T VOTE FOR CANDIDATES THAT ARE RECOMMENDED BY COMMUNISTS.

  • o.(only) b.(blacks) a.(and) m.(muslims) a.(accepted)

    Why are so many white people voting for a black supremacist? Go to Obama’s church
    website. He’s been a member there for 20 years. Check the website and see what they’ve
    been putting in his and his wife’s head all those years.

    http://tucc.org/black_value_system.html

    Once you do that, go to Politico and check out Mrs. Obama’s Princeton senior thesis.
    http://www.politico.com/pdf/080222_MOPrincetonThesis_1-251.pdf

    Wake up people! The reason she is finally proud of America is because she’s so close
    to being in charge of the white people she despises.

  • Oh my! Are the pieces of the puzzle falling into place about Obama? The truth always comes out in time.
    1) Refuses to wear an American Flag lapel pin.
    2) Doesn’t put his hand over his heart.
    3) His wife has never been proud of America as an adult until now.
    4) Farrakhan now endorses Obama.
    5) The picture is out.
    6) I read somewhere that he is not a strong supporter of Israel.

    This is so scary. What kind of change is he talking about? I believe our country was founded on christian values and we need to make sure that it stays that way. These 6 items may not be anything important-but We cannot gamble with this.

    Obama claims to be for all American’s and that he will unite the Blue and Red States by winning over Republicans and Independents. So, how does Obama plan to reach out to win over Republicans and Independents in these states?

    Here is how Obama is reaching out so far. He refuses to display the traditions of Republicans and Independents.

    He refuses to wear an American flag lapel pin.

    He refuses to place his had on his heart when reciting the Pledge of Allegiance or the National Anthem.

    He does not salute the US Flag.

    His wife claims she has been really proud of her country only once in her adult life.

    A diplomat would never insult a foreign county by behaving as Obama does in HIS OWN COUNTRY.

    How can we have a Commander in Chief that is uncomfortable wearing an American Flag lapel pin, but is right at home in Muslim garb?

    Obama is losing to McCain in the key and crossover red states. With Obamas crass attitude, there is no way he will win over Republicans or Independents there.

    Obama will lose the General Election in one of the biggest landslides. That will be the end of his career and thank God for that.

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