Obama, Mudcat, and the elusive ‘Bubba Voter’

I’ve never been especially convinced by Dave “Mudcat” Saunders’ worldview when it comes to Democrats and rural voters, but I generally find his perspective interesting enough to at least consider, whether I end up agreeing with it or not.

With that in mind, I found the Weekly Standard’s Matt Labash’s new cover story on Mudcat, and his thoughts on Barack Obama’s chances in Appalachia, worth reading. I came away, though, less persuaded than going in.

When I contacted Mudcat, he was in a state of blood-spitting agitation at all the Poindexter reporters trafficking in stereotypes, depicting mountain people as racist mouth-breathers, while explaining Obama’s “Appalachian problem” as if they were anthropologists dropping in on the lip-plated savages of America’s last exotic tribe. […]

[A]s he once told a woman who stood up after a speech he gave to a Democratic audience to say he made compelling points, but they’d be more effective without the swearing, “Lady, there’s nothing I can do about it. Because if you’d seen what I’ve seen from elitist Democrats, you’d swear too.”

He’s speaking of the breed of mostly Northeastern elitist liberal that he encounters even on his own campaigns: condescending, green around the gills from consuming too much arugula, with overdeveloped thumbs from clacking nonstop on their Blackberries, all of whom jealously guard their titles such as “deputy campaign manager of the coffee pot.” He calls them “the Harvards” (a term pinched from LBJ), though in fairness he stipulates that “there’s a lot of jerks that went to other places too.”

I see. So Mudcat thinks the problem with the Democratic establishment is that DC-types look at “Bubba” with an anthropologist’s eye. Mudcat looks at the Democratic establishment as over-educated, arugula-eating elitists obsessed with their Blackberries. He went on to argue that Dems should invest less energy in pursuing the “liberal pinko commie” vote.

Remind me, who’s engaging in cheap stereotypes? Who disdains some Americans’ culture? Who’s the anthropologist?

Just to illustrate the sort of cultural shorthand by which Dems hand Republicans the truncheon to club them with, he pursues the issue of guns. While nobody’s going to take anyone’s gun away in a country of 90 million gun owners, he says,

“Why make our members vote for bulls– bills that’ll get ’em beat in November? It’s all perception–nothing’s going to pass. Yet the deal is, Democrats are perceived as anti-gun. And so with a slogan like ‘Close the gun show loophole,’ what are the first four words of that? ‘Close the gun show.’ Bubba doesn’t mind an instant check, but closing the gun show is all he can hear. He doesn’t need to hear “loophole,” after he’s heard the first four words.”

Really? This is Mudcat’s argument? Candidates should respect Bubba’s intelligence, but they should intentionally dumb down their rhetoric because he’ll only listen to the first four words of a five-word phrase?

As Isaac Chotiner noted, “Now just imagine for a moment that Howard Dean had said this. The clear implication is that ‘Bubba’ is, er, not smart enough to understand more than the first four words. Or that ‘Bubba’ does not have the capability to focus on more than four words. Either Saunders is being condescending, or he is revealing something about his beloved ‘Bubba Voter’ that proves the argument he believes elitist Democrats are making.”

If anyone holds that a black guy can’t win in these parts, says Mudcat, then they ought to notify former Virginia governor Doug Wilder, a black guy who won 20 years ago. Wilder, of course, knew how to speak the language and get through to even the most resistant parts of the culture.

Well, maybe. Virginia also has a few populous counties along its northern border that are pretty liberal, and Richmond that has a sizable African-American population. Neither can be said about West Virginia, which is where Mudcat thinks Obama should invest his energy.

Mudcat doesn’t deny that Obama’s race could be a factor. Since Obama doesn’t come around Appalachia much, having taken a powder in places like West Virginia and Kentucky, “nobody knows about Obama out here. All we know is that he’s black. That’s all we know. That’s all anyone wants to tell us.”

Maybe it’s because there’s ample evidence, at least in advance of the Democratic primary, that race was a deal-breaker?

If the article is any indication, I still feel like Mudcat’s pitch needs some work.

It’s his whole schitck. It’s how he makes a living and gets on TV. Doesn’t matter if it makes no sense, he has to find ways to press the “Dems are elitist” narrative.

  • You might be a redneck if your nickname is Mudcat. In this case he’s a professional redneck. Like Elvis says, it’s his schtick. There are a lot of smart refined people from the south and there are a lot of rednecks from everywhere. And vice versa.

  • Saunders did a week guest posting at Time magazine’s Swamp blog (about six months ago?), and blundered in with a long rant about cosmopolitain, wine-swilling, opera-loving elitists who didn’t care about poor people.

    That was his pitch to get people–the people he was insulting and dismissively stererotyping– to support John Edwards. I was (and still would be) an Edwards supporter, but the fact that he had such a clueless, obnoxious jerk speaking for his campaign gave me pause.

    Suanders seems to have a massive ego and a massive inferiority complex, all packed into a big chip on his shoulder. He promptly got his ass handed to him. He seemed genuinely surprised that people would be offended by his reductice, strawman caricatures. I guess he has learned anything in the meantime.

  • I think there’s a little willful misunderstanding here. Mudcat isn’t saying that Bubba is too stupid to hear beyond 4 words. He is saying that Bubba interprets any attempt to limit gun show activity as an attempt to close gun shows down because Bubba believes that liberals truly want to outlaw guns, not control them and that a slippery slope is involved in gun show regulation.

  • With a name like Mudcat, what else are you going to say? “Simple folk elected the moron who totally screwed the pooch, but we need to listen to them anyway, not the people who said the moron would screw the pooch?”

    I’ll listen to Mudcat when and if he ever says the following:

    “The Hippies Were Right”.

  • Obama does need to go to Appalachia. It’s part of America, too, and should be part of the “50-state” strategy. I’m not sure what he’s so afraid of. People in WV and Kentucky can’t be any more backward than some in rural Illinois.

  • Mudcat is the kind of Dem who hates liberals as much as the Republicans do, thinks the only Democrats who should count are the ones who are indistinguishable from Republicans, and feels the rest of us are too leftist to deserve representation in a god-fearing democracy. Douchebag.

  • Taritac,

    Obama should go to Appalachia. That’s not the dispute. What he should not do is try to dumb down his message and pretend to something different from what he is.

    Just as liberals should not apologize for being liberal, educated liberals should not apologize for being educated or dumb down what they say.

  • This guy confuses me. He obviously want to be insulting to certain parts of the Dem party, but to what purpose?
    I could understand if he limited it to “I’m gonna keep insultin’ y’all ‘cuz y’all keep insultin’ us country folk.”
    I really understand the “close the gun show” bit, because he’s right. Stated the way he did is off message. Instant Check is the message, but people hear what they expect to hear. If you’ve had it pounded into you that the Liberals want to take your guns away, that’s what you expect to hear. the Dems need to stay on message better.
    My confusion is his apparent “my way or the highway” attitude.
    Hey, Bubba, we want most of the same things, and sometimes we say it in a different way. Bring us together, don’t split us apart with Republican talking points.

  • Either Saunders is being condescending, or he is revealing something about his beloved ‘Bubba Voter’ that proves the argument he believes elitist Democrats are making.”

    Mudcat Saunders is an ignorant asshole who is his own best example for proving the argument “elitist Democrats” are making.

    As he demonstrates personallty, those people are ignorant, inbred mouthbreathers.

  • People in WV and Kentucky can’t be any more backward than some in rural Illinois.

    I don’t know about Kentucky, but my buddy who was born and raised in WV would say all the people there now are pretty damn backwards. All the smart people move away. I frequently repeat his story about his brother-in-law:

    After getting a divorce and moving into an empty apartment, his sister, my buddy’s wife, calls him up and offers him some old furniture for his daughters room- when she spends some weekends with him. He accepts at first but then inquires about the color. She tells him it is a white dresser. His reply: “I can’t have no white furniture. People might think I was gay.” And he refused the dresser for his daughters room.

    He tells me lots of stories about WV. Many of those folks are backwards.

  • One reason Obama should go to Appalachia is that this is a region which includes portions of several states where Obama could be competitive. Even if he still loses Appalachia, campaigning there could reduce the gap and improve his state wide total. Losing by a lower amount in Appalachia might result in victory in states he might otherwise narrowly lose.

  • Here’s how Obama wins West Virginia:

    1) Tell West Virginians that he understands that unions (and their rank and file members) have been taking it on the chin for 28 years, and he’ll fight for their right to bargain collectively for decent pay, benefits, and safety.

    2) Tell West Virginians that he understands that coal mining is the lynchpin of the economy there, but he also understands that mountaintop removal results in fewer jobs and poisoned streams. Ask them if they know anyone who has gotten sick from drinking water with heavy metals. Ask them if they can think of places they used to hunt and fish that they wouldn’t go near now.

    3) If asked about guns, give Howard Dean’s answer: some states have gun crime problems that other states don’t, and the states with gun crime problems should be able to do something about it.

  • Some people live for nothing but the shock-value of their insanity. A few of them dye their hair pink and their teeth green while blowing their eardrums back to the Dark Ages with a stereo that could be considered weaponized. A few others run around like hairless albino chipmunks on meth while wearing head-to-toe black spandex, painting their fingernails black, poking a few hundred bits of shiny metal through their skin, and waving plate-sized pentacles around on a smidgen of string and squealing “AY-VOH-AY” while not knowing the first thing about what it means, except that they read it in a mass-market paperback printed by some fly-by-night, coven-in-a-box twit.

    And then there’s this “mudcat” fellow. The only guy called Mudcat that I ever respected was Mudcat Grant—used to pitch for the Indians….

  • So they won’t vote for “elitists” who look-out for their better interests but they will continue to vote for people who “mine” them for their money and keep them afraid, dirt poor and uneducated without health benefits. Now I understand. Let’s see if the theory holds true, my first sentence is way too long for them to comprehend. Let’s try this one:

    “Vote for me I’m black” Think that’ll work?…

  • I’m not sure what he’s so afraid of. People in WV and Kentucky can’t be any more backward than some in rural Illinois.
    Taritac, drive fifty miles inland from just about any point on the California coast and you’re in Red State heaven. Hell, I live thirty miles east of Los Angeles and my Representative is Republican David Dreier.

  • By the way, Obama did come to WV a day or two before the primary. Good sized crowd, though not outdoors. Well received.

  • There are two Americas– urban v. rural. Diverse areas v. homogenous areas. Both seem to have fairly negative opinions about the other much of the time because they often have very little exposure to one another. This is a gap that Obama and Dems in general must bridge.

    Much has been made about “Appalacia voters” but they basically represent an isolated extreme of rural voters that can be found in nearly every state of the country. Appalacia has become shorthand for poor, white and uneducated. Why are they GOP voters? Because of guns, gays and God. This is a pretty well established fact. We need to simply point out that GOP policies aren’t helping them, their lives are not getting better and the future doesn’t look too bright with the GOP in charge. Jobs are a HUGE issue. Health care as it exists now is a huge problem since in our current system it is tied to jobs. They’re also hard hit by rising gas prices because they MUST use cars to get around, to go to work, and so on.

    We have to counter the GOP’s “culture war” issues with talk about things that really do impact people’s daily lives. So what about a clear message about jobs, health care and education? The Dems need to hit their message about “hope and opportunity” in these places and they might be surprised at how successful it is.

    Also, all the city dems need to realize that looking down on “poor white trash” is no better than looking down on the people in poor urban neighborhoods. They are just as much in need of opportunity as anyone else.

  • Mudcat’s stint at Swampland — or rather the commenters there — seemed to briefly set him straight (my favorite was IIRC “Southern Opera Strategy” who relentlessly took Mudcat to task for his “Metropolitan Opera wing” of the Democratic Party meme). But he seems to have reverted to old ways. That’s how his bread is buttered, I suppose, his schtick as you say. In the end, he’s promoting his own career first and foremost, not necessarily the Democratic party, progressive causes or the truth.

  • ‘Elitist’ is just code word for intellectual.

    This is the only way that Obama can be considered an ‘elitist’ and it is the only way that McCain can not be considered an ‘elitist’.

    Anti-intellectualism has been a part of the rethugnican platform for many years, with the willing help of the Corporate News Media.

    Mudcat should ask for a co-chair position on SWW for McCain! Their motto is ‘He’s one of us!’. SWW = stupid white warmongers

  • I think there’s a little willful misunderstanding here. Mudcat isn’t saying that Bubba is too stupid to hear beyond 4 words. He is saying that Bubba interprets any attempt to limit gun show activity as an attempt to close gun shows down because Bubba believes that liberals truly want to outlaw guns, not control them and that a slippery slope is involved in gun show regulation.

    And our choices to combat that problem are:

    1. To tell people the truth: No one wants to take anyone’s guns away. They just want to make sure every crazy, homicidal asshat can’t get an assault rifle at the local Ramada Inn.

    2. Pander to people too fucking stupid to read more than four words in a row.

    Mudcat chooses option two — which is reason enough to ignore anything the hypocritical jackass says or types.

    Mudcat is a concern troll of the highest order who, somehow, keeps convincing journalism types that he has anything worthwhile to say. Probably because all he does is bash liberals.

    Why Edwards ever listened to this clown is beyond me.

  • Mudcat’s stint at Swampland — or rather the commenters there — seemed to briefly set him straight (my favorite was IIRC “Southern Opera Strategy” who relentlessly took Mudcat to task for his “Metropolitan Opera wing” of the Democratic Party meme).

    That’s the post that made me actively loathe the guy, instead of just finding him irritating.

    Somebody has to say it: Mudcat Saunders can kiss my Yankee ass.

  • I’m with you, and appreciate the entry. But as for WV, we do have a few “populous” counties. It’s not one big pasture 🙂

  • Scott m’s comments are exactly on the money. WVa may ‘have a preference for white candidates’ but they have a much stronger preference for DEMOCRATS, at least on the Congressional level — and they are a strongly pro-union state. (I’ll remind you, yet again, that they haven’t elected a Repubublican Senator in my lifetime, that they’ve had only one time when they they elected a majority of Republican Congressmen in the same time, the last Republican Congressman before Capito to serve more than one term ended his career in the House in 1968, and that, again, in my lifetime, they have never elected a Republican to replace a Republican.)

    On the other hand, the comments about the snide way too many liberals look down on the people of the state was certainly echoed here after the primary. Look back at the archives and you’ll see what I mean. It was obnoxious then and it continues to be so.

  • Mudcat is the kind of “good ole boy” who used to, automatically, trigger my gag reflex. But, after reading Tom Cleaver’s opinions of the South for a couple of years, I wonder how many Tom Cleavers Mudcat had met in his life and whether his sweeping condemnation of “elitists” isn’t some sort of reaction to that.

  • “nobody’s going to take anyone’s gun away in a country of 90 million gun owners”
    Wrong. They (police and National Guard) will and have (in NOL after Katrina).

  • I like scott_m’s analysis. It is simple, and it respects what I can only imagine are quality of life concerns for many people in West Virginia. I read posts like that of Tom Cleaver (who never met a stereotype he could not use in a post by claiming that the object of his ire “proves it”) and feel discouraged. I do not doubt that there are West Virginians who have world views with which I vehemently disagree. But, then, someone in my Seattle neighborhood has the license plate “BrngMOn.” Can’t say I find that world view one which I would want replicated.

    CB is correct about Mr. Saunders as Mr. Saunders would be correct about some of the comments made here. It is in-group / out-group over-simplification of great swaths of people that is not the least bit constructive. The charicatures enable us to de-humanize people who do not share our situation and opinions. The problem with Mr. Saunders is that he gets a big audience for his invective. I find it very insulting that he writes off my home (Seattle) with his bumper-sticker assessments. If I put myself in the shoes of people who live in rural areas, I would be pissed off by the “mouth breather” characterizations.

    Barack Obama will have to decide whether he thinks he can win these voters or not. I do not know whether he can, and I am unconvinced that Mudcat Saunders has his finger on their collective pulse. One thing is for sure, I do not think much of his spouting off Republican talking points. Here (via TPM/ ABC news) is Karl Rove’s most recent assessment of Barack Obama:

    “Even if you never met him, you know this guy. He’s the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by.”

    Mudcat Rove. I, of course, ask myself how many West Virginia union workers know this guy from the country club?

  • I only wanted to echo those who think scott_m had the best response, because it is exactly correct. I would also add that I’ve lived in Appalachia and I have never met anyone like Mudcat Saunders. He’s like the used car salesman of Southern writers.

  • My experience with Mudcat is extremely limited, but seems like he’s the kind of guy who’s angry that there’s an image of a “typical” Democrat that doesn’t reflect him. To a degree, he might have a point, when you consider how many Dems there are not in the bluest of blue states that don’t match the stereotype of Dems the Republicans claim is typical. So his dopey reaction is an outsider-looking-in one. He’d rather that the “bubba” be the face of the Democratic Party, and because it’s not, he’s going to throw tantrums and cause scenes so Bubba gets more attention. If that’s what it takes to get Bubba noticed, he thinks the end justifies the means.

    What he doesn’t realize is that he’s just coming across looking douchey, as much of a stereotype as the arugula loving beemer lib. Why would combat a stereotype by embracing that stereotype? That shit works on the Beverly Hillbillies or “reality” shows where stories and resolutions are prepared weeks in advance, story arcs as meticulously planned as any soap opera. But in the real world, you just look like…well, like Mudcat.

  • To Racer X…Somebody sent me your comment. I have never said I didn’t like hippies. The Hippies WERE and ARE right. The irreversibly ignorant elitists are the ones who have their heads up their asses. Mudcat

  • National health care.
    Out of Iraq.

    Seems to me, the Dems only started winning when they listened to the arugula eating pinkos.

    Liberalism renamed “progressivism” turned out to be pretty popular with voters. It was Dean who suggested we needed to point out how much bubbas have in common with the Democratic agenda rather than denying our arrogant feelings that we do have better answers than the popular guys at the time, conservatives. After 8 years of proof, they finally figured out they’ve been sold a bill of goods.

    Result? Both houses of congress flipped.
    Follow Mudcat’s “advice” at your peril.

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