Obama outlines counter-terrorism policy

I read (and re-read) Barack Obama’s major speech on terrorism — titled, “The War We Need to Win” — and was very impressed. I wouldn’t necessarily say it broke new policy ground, but it was as strong an articulation of the Democratic approach to counter-terrorism as I’ve seen in the last few years.

It hit every note that the left has been wanting to hear since Bush’s counter-terrorism policy began to crumble in late-2002. Obama articulated a counter-terrorism vision that highlighted the tragic flaws of the current policy, while offering a strong, common-sense alternative.

Better yet, politically, Matthew Yglesias explained how Obama effectively re-framed the broader debate.

More interesting is that Obama, unlike some of the reporters who covered the speech, refused to frame his determination to fight al-Qaida as a contrast with his dovish views on Iraq. Rather….he says that “by refusing the end the war in Iraq, President Bush is giving the terrorists what they really want, and what the Congress voted to give then in 2002: a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences.” Opposition to the war in Iraq, then and now, in other words, is part and parcel of a commitment to a serious struggle against al-Qaida.

This is precisely right, and it’s precisely Obama’s ability to move the conversation in this direction that’s his campaign’s most underappreciated asset. It’s not just that [Hillary] Clinton took a different position on the authorization vote four and a half years ago. Rather, Obama, having established more space between his views and those of the Republicans can, in effect, punch much harder, accusing conservatives of radically misconceiving the problem.

Now, Kevin Drum notes that Obama’s speech was probably not unique to Obama, and suggested he might want to comb through it, looking for sections that wouldn’t appear in speeches from the other top Democratic candidates. I suspect there isn’t much — Obama was articulating a Democratic vision, which I suspect would be embraced by most credible Democrats.

But Obama did it first, did it better, did it without Bush’s frames (there was no explicit mention of a “war on terror”), and did it in such a way as to make the progressive approach to counter-terrorism the strong approach to counter-terrorism.

And then, of course, there’s Pakistan.

As you’ve no doubt heard, this was the provocative part of a lengthy and detailed speech.

“As President, I would make the hundreds of millions of dollars in U.S. military aid to Pakistan conditional, and I would make our conditions clear: Pakistan must make substantial progress in closing down the training camps, evicting foreign fighters, and preventing the Taliban from using Pakistan as a staging area for attacks in Afghanistan.

“I understand that President Musharraf has his own challenges. But let me make this clear. There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al Qaeda leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won’t act, we will.

“And Pakistan needs more than F-16s to combat extremism. As the Pakistani government increases investment in secular education to counter radical madrasas, my Administration will increase America’s commitment. We must help Pakistan invest in the provinces along the Afghan border, so that the extremists’ program of hate is met with one of hope. And we must not turn a blind eye to elections that are neither free nor fair — our goal is not simply an ally in Pakistan, it is a democratic ally.”

The right went berserk with breathtakingly hypocritical criticism, insisting that Obama wants to “invade” Pakistan. That’s simply not what he said — he’s talking about attacking terrorists who have taken refuge in parts of Pakistan. Why conservatives are balking at a plan that focuses on killing terrorists is a mystery.

Some on the left were equally outraged. Jerome Armstrong wrote, “[T]his is basically a continuation of the Bush-Cheney doctrine of endorsing unilateral pre-emptive military attacks abroad, lighter perhaps, but certainly not the mentality that would pull us out of the mideast quagmire.” Some of the initial news accounts were misleading, and I can see how someone who didn’t read the entire speech might have gotten that impression, but that’s not at all consistent with what Obama actually said.

We’re talking about a country where al Qaeda has sought refuge in tribal areas outside the reach of Musharraf, who, by the way, Bush’s nonsense to the contrary notwithstanding, is a military dictator, not a democratic leader. Are Obama’s critics saying if the White House gets actionable intelligence on, say, Osama bin Laden in a Pakistani cave, and the U.S. is in a position to act, we shouldn’t? Indeed, given those circumstances, wouldn’t Musharraf approve a special-ops mission anyway? (And for good measure, attacking al Qaeda leaders responsible for 9/11 is not “pre-emptive,” it’s “responsive.”)

I thought Obama’s speech was close to perfect, and could help serve as a model for how the party articulates a counter-terrorism policy. Read the whole thing and let me know if you agree.

i know a lot of posters are saying that obama keeps making mistakes by saying things that are politically incorrect, but i find his candor to be very refreshing. i really like this guy.

  • Thanks CB… Very well said.

    The most amusing aspect of all this was some of the other candidate’s supporters, who were deeply offended by Obama’s remarks — only to have their candidate agree with virtually everything Obama said by the end of the day.

    Yesterday was a big day for Obama as he defined the message for his whole party.

  • Two weeks ago, Obama was for precondtions.

    Last week, he was for kumbaya-ing with Iran, North Korea, Syria, Cuba, and Venezuela with no precondtions.

    This week, he’s for unilaterally invading an unstable Muslim nuclearized ally preemptively?

    All this from a guy who claims to be the most-experienced in foreign affairs of the entire Presidential field, Democratic and Republican?

  • I tried to do my due diligence and read Obama’s whole speech before commenting, but the way it starts out short-circuited by desire to read more.

    Back at my law office, I watched the images from New York: a plane vanishing into glass and steel; men and women clinging to windowsills, then letting go; tall towers crumbling to dust. It seemed all of the misery and all of the evil in the world were in that rolling black cloud, blocking out the September sun.

    Most people will dismiss what I’m saying, and in a sense I’m glad for that fact, since it probably gives me a certain protection the first amendment can’t, but I believe the event on 9-11 was a planned demolition resulting from planted explosives. If the fire in the towers was hot enough to melt the steel and cause the buildings to fail so dramatically- collapsing perfectly into their own footprints- how could there be any survivors clinging to the windowsills? Where’s the science?

    I don’t think there’s a single in person in congress willing to look at the truth of that day. Apparently not Obama. So really, what’s the difference? Obama’s speech was an experiment and his whole campaign is a laboratory from which Hillary Clinton will take the best ideas into the general election.

    Hillary Clinton is my candidate.

  • Ditto Vermonter, CB.

    Bill Press on Air America parroted the right wing accusation of Obama wanting to INVADE.
    He said nothing of the kind.
    I envisioned cruise missile strikes a la Clinton and only if Musharif does nothing.

    I hope the Democratic vote doesn’t punish Obama for standing up0 for something and reward Hilary for staying vague and center-of-center. Leaders should have courage.

  • Are Obama’s critics saying if the White House gets actionable intelligence on, say, Osama bin Laden in a Pakistani cave, and the U.S. is in a position to act, we shouldn’t? Indeed, given those circumstances, wouldn’t Musharraf approve a special-ops mission anyway? (And for good measure, attacking al Qaeda leaders responsible for 9/11 is not “pre-emptive,” it’s “responsive.”)

    That’s still violating the sovereignty of another country by unilaterally going into it in the pursuit of American political-military objectives.

    That’s America telling the community of nations: “We can do whatever we bloody want! Who’s going to stop us? Who?”

    I don’t think 9/11, or anything else, justifies that.

    Then, of course, there’s the whole complex question of what that might do to de-stabilize Pakistan, the very real risk of causing the India-Pakistan blood-feud to boil over again, this time with nuclear weapons maybe.

    I think Obama is pandering to the American psyche with strut-and-pose tough guy talk, just as Bush has done.

    I think it’s irresponsible and dangerous. And thoroughly dishonest.

  • JoeCHI, please go play the concern troll somewhere else. We’re discussing big things in here. As CB said, Obama was not at all stating an intention for pre-emptive invasion or attack. And speaking to our enemies in the worst of times (see, ‘cold war’) actually worked out for us.

    Run along, now.

  • OBL is in Pakistan, and Pakistan really does have Nuclear weapons – Musharif is one bullit away from the former dot connecting to the latter dot.

    Afghanistan was sovereign, Iraq was sovereign, I fail to see the right’s objection to Killing Osama bin Laden – wherever he may be hiding.

  • Ed Stephan @ #8- You’re a smart guy, what with your professorship and your charts and all that- What say you? Do you really think the twin towers were collapsed because of planes crashing into them, as Obama said? Do you think there’s sound science behind that explaination?

    If so, how do you explain the collapse of the third building, WTC 7, over seven hours later? Building 7 wasn’t hit by any planes, yet it too collapsed at freefall speed perfectly into its own footprint.

    Do you really believe in this 9-11 myth we’re basing everything on Ed?

  • I read the speech as well, and I would agree that it did hit many of the right notes, ones that I think we certainly will be hearing, in large part, from the other candidates. I think it makes clear that the Democrats are not looking to go all flower-child on security and terrorism issues, but rather that they are looking for ways to approach these things with pragmatism, some caution, but with muscle on standby, if needed.

    I think people desperately need the vision part – we need a sense that the person we elect as president is not going to be flying by the seat of his or her pants, and is not going to be the public face of a private and dangerous agenda (like PNAC). I think it is important, however, to make sure the vision does not obscure how difficult it is going to be to implement because of the huge and complicated reality of Iraq. I do have confidence that the next president will be able to work on many fronts, and will not employ, as Bush has, magical thinking as part of the plan.

    There’s something about the Pakistan thing that troubles me, and it may be that I’m just having a knee-jerk reaction to something that sounds too much like something Bush would say. Or it could be that I fear Pakistan is a far bigger and more dangerous Pandora’s box than anyone really understands.

  • Any Democrat who proposes a strategy for dealing with terrorism that promises in any way to be more intelligent or more effective will be savaged by the Republicans. Terrorism is the only issue the Republicans have and anyone who outsmarts them on it will become a prime target. He or she will also be savaged by elements of the Democratic Party because that’s what Democrats do.

    I’m not saying that Obama has the answer. I am saying that the reaction from both sides is dismally predictable.

  • Haik – I addressed WTC 7 yesterday. While I normally agree with your posts here, the notion of two 100 story buildings having planned demolitions is simply beyond far-fetched. WTC 7 adds nothing to the story.

    I am curious whether commenters here and elsewhere, left or right, are consistent regarding Obama and Pakistan. If you believe Obama’s view on Pakistan is too aggressive, I assume you also disagreed with our attack on Afghanistan? I don’t see any principled line that would make one ok but not the other. I have heard very very few people from anywhere on the political spectrum disagree with Afghanistan — indeed, the Dems have largely argued that one big problem with Iraq is that it detracted from the legitimate fight in Afghanistan, dooming the opportunity to get that one right. Yet people from all over the spectrum are finding fault with Obama’s Pakistan position. I’m not sure I see it. . .

  • Sheesh! They’re coming out of the woodwork . . .

    Having worked in the foundation of the WTC when it was built in the 70’s and having been an employee of a contractor working at the WTC on 9-11 and being a Civil Engineer familiar with the structure and the infastructure of the buildings I can believe it was the planes. WTC #7 did not drop perfectly in it’s own footprint.

    Perhaps, Haik, you know who really killed Kennedy?

  • Obama gave a well-crafted speech, backed up by knowledgeable foreign policy advisors. The reality of modern politics is that criticism is likely to come from anywhere. But, my question is this: What does Obama really believe? (Remember that George W. Bush said in 2000 that he didn’t believe in “nation-building.”) And yes, Obama has a “squishy factor” to overcome.

  • zeitgeist, didn’t we go into afganistan with their permission? as opposed to obama’s statement we’d go into pakistan even without their permission? maybe my memory is incorrect here……

  • WTC 7 adds nothing to the story.

    Way to dismiss the complete collapse of a skyscraper because of a couple of fires. That’s never happened before or since anywhere in the world. What’s “beyond far-fetched” is the official explanation.

    Besides, I was asking Ed Stephan, not you time-ghost.

  • If you believe Obama’s view on Pakistan is too aggressive, I assume you also disagreed with our attack on Afghanistan? I don’t see any principled line that would make one ok but not the other.

    There’s a world of difference between the two situations.

    It was Afghanistan’s official policy was offer safe-haven protection to al Qaeda. They were officially in cahoots.

    Pakistan is fighting al Qaeda with us, just not very effectively when it comes to finding Osama.

  • Perhaps, Haik, you know who really killed Kennedy? -Conspirator #14

    What are you talking about? Lee Harvey Oswald killed Kennedy. Everybody knows that.

  • Obama appears to be taking the lead on expounding a rational and considered anti-terror policy. Edwards is pretty much right along with him and adds an (apparantly) honest program to ameliorate poverty in this country. Even when she agrees, Hillary still has to add weasel words to her statements. It looks like the Democratic money and power are going one way while the people go another.

  • Zeitgeist – what’s the difference between Pakistan and Afghanistan? Maybe the nuclear weapons. Maybe the army. Maybe the possibility that it would end up de-stabilizing Pakistan and opening up the possibility that Musharref would be deposed and his replacement would gather support from factions and countries not sympathetic to our goals. I just think it’s not as simple as our attack on Afghanistan, and bears much analysis and review of intelligence. I hear Obama saying, I think, that this would be a necessary component of any decision, and I think I can trust that his – or any Democratic president’s – assessment of the situation would not just be a gathering of information that supported what he wanted to do, but would consider all the information available.

    I suppose what I fear is the possibility that we will end up launching attacks on any number of countries as we chase down terrorists all over the world. Am I saying that we should not be tracking them down and eliminating them? No, and I realize that terrorists are likely to locate themselves in countries where their presence is, if not welcomed, then tolerated. But are we committed to launching attacks on any country where terrorists find refuge, and are we prepared for the consequences of that commitment?

  • Re: Haik @ #4

    …I don’t think there’s a single in person in congress willing to look at the truth of that day.

    Dennis Kucinich is preparing to hold Congressional hearings into the events of 9/11.

    Perhaps he will investigate the thermal hot spots reported by the NASA/ United States Geological Survey (USGS) Spectrometer performed on 9/16/2001 that indicate temperatures at the site of Ground Zero as high as 1341F –including a temperature of 1160F at the site of the collapse of World Trade Center 7. Could the uncontrolled hydrocarbon fires in the Twin Towers have caused these temperatures –five days later, at that?

    Of course that information from USGS was summarily omitted from the 9/11 Commission Report. Perhaps Congressman Kucinich can add a few appendices to the $15M 9/11 Commission Report explaining these anomalies. And, perhaps, he can persuade Dick&Bush to testify at the hearings. That would be more than the President and Vice President were willing to do for the 9/11 Commission, since they insisted upon testifying to the 9/11 Commission together, in private, not under oath, and without transcript.

    If you are interested in learning more about the 9/11 Commission (The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States), please see the exceptional documentary 9/11: Press for Truth, which chronicles the Patriotic “Jersey Girls,” the 9/11 widows who bravely petitioned the Federal Government for the creation of the 9/11 Commission and led the 9/11 Commission Family Steering Committee.

  • Haik (#17), you’ll note I referred you to yesterdays threads, where WTC 7 was discussed by a number of people. I did not merely dismiss it – I discussed my first hand observations of surrounding buildings from 4 months after the attacks.

    Anne, I understand the realpolitik of the nuclear weapons and the armed forces etc; those may drive a “yes” or “no” in any individual decision. But at the doctrinal level, the “would it be just” as opposed to “would it be practical,” I see little difference between Afghanistan and Pakistan if we (a) knew OBL was there and (b) Pakistan was unwilling to do anything about it. (I believe those were Obama’s predicates as well).

    There is a fine line between legitimate protection of our sovereignty against terrorists and observation of the sovereignty of others when they harbor, activiely or tacitly, those same terrorists. Because of how badly Bush screwed up Iraq, I understand the concerns about running all over the globe making military strikes in other countries. But assuming they wont fully cooperate (again, Bush has hurt us terribly in this regard), what option should we use? There cannot be a total lack of consequence of attackers just because they can find a reasonably safe haven.

    Both as a matter of defense and, to go back to your realpolitik, domestic politics, we have to strike back at terrorists who attack the US or its citizens – we just need to do it in a much smarter, more targeted way than picking a surrogate about whom we know almost nothing and launching a full scale ground war. Any Dem who even implies that certain circumstances might mean we simply do not strike back at known terrorists with known locations is wholly unelectable at the present time.

  • ***I fail to see the right’s objection to Killing Osama bin Laden – wherever he may be hiding.***
    ———————————-bcinaz

    Killing Osama takes away the bogeyman that justifies the Right’s “forever war.” No bogeyman equates to no fear-factor for controlling the populace. No forever war equates to no rapacious profitmongering on the part of the inner circle of Bushylvanians.

    Killing Osama short—an extinction event for “Tyrannasaurus Neoconnius….”

  • Jerome Armstrong is that perfect example of what I mean by the “idiot left” that has been our own worst enemy for the past 40 years. The man suffers from a severe case of Cranial-Rectal Adhesion Syndrome (in othre words, he has his head where the sun doesn’t shine). What Obama has proposed is about as far from the failure of Bush-Cheney as you can get, and someone who can’t see that no longer deserves the reputation of Gnu, er, I mean Guru, that Jerome has. He’s stuck back in the days of “political correctness” that clobbered the left in the eyes of anyone with a brain.

  • read july 25 senate CFR statement

    http://www.senate.gov/~foreign/hearings/2007/hrg070725p.html

    Here you will see how torn Barack was during the last week.

    He had Hillarys niave statement and he also had to deal with the REAL TRUTH

    That lead him to SAY THE RIGHT THING

    and that wasn’t good for POLLS

    I believe Barack has not just reacted to Hillarys statement at the last YOUTUBE DEBATE but he is using what he has learned to help let the people of Pakistan understand that he is a potential candidate who will take action and it can be good and it can be bad depending on their actions in the upcoming elections.

    Now this was not what many expected to hear from Barack. Especially after coming out on top after the Clinton/Obama fued.

    To me it tells me Barack has decided that letting the Pakistan people know what is going on and by making it public that the future president is willing to help with 5 billion dollars in aid to that region. This is
    important because they do need funding for stability.
    Barack knows that much has been lost due to all the funds going to the war in Iraq. This i am sure hurts Barack. He knows Bush had a chance at doing great things in afghanistan and Pakistan but that was detored with the Iraq war.

    I know, this was a shock to me, a supporter, to see his statements about invading Pakistan, but now that i have read the “full report”, i am proud of Barack, for doing whats right, versus just trying to win an election through getting good polls numbers.

    For this i have to thank Barack for pushing the envelope and helping to do the right thing that is best for the long run for american for Pakistan and for the world.

    Also Bush’s BILDERBERG buddies with the bin laden family habe created HAVOC around the world and i am sure Barack was also letting Bush know he would act and not follow along with Bush’s buddies.

  • Pakistan (Government) does not control the region where OBL is currently residing. It is theirs by name only, so sending in US forces to remove them is NOTHING at all like invading another nation to overthrow the government, and take control of all their oil interests as well as building up a pro-US government.

    Now get the WTC bullshit off of this site. Go dig a hole somewhere and bury whats left of your brain in there. Or find the hole you buried it in years ago, and put it back in. The only “conspiracy” was that the American voters put a stupid man into the presidency, and didn’t care about lil terrorists to try and stop them. Its a sad state of mind when you think the most incompetent people in the world could pull off an attack on US soil by Saudi’s, so that we invade Iraq. They couldn’t even get a blow job in the white house without being caught.

  • Re: Zeitgeist @ #23
    Haik (#17), you’ll note I referred you to yesterday’s threads, where WTC 7 was discussed by a number of people. I did not merely dismiss it – I discussed my first hand observations of surrounding buildings from 4 months after the attacks.

    You never did respond to my last question(s) from yesterday’s thread:

    […]

    I mentioned the $15M allocated for the 9/11 Commission — which I believe is sorely anemic (especially considering that $40M was spent by Congress investigating the truthiness of Bill Clinton’s sexual escapades).

    Furthermore, look at what that $15M did not do for us — 40% of the American Public still believe that Saddam Hussein was in on 9/11. More money should have been spent for public awareness alone.

    I mentioned the collapse of WTC7 — which I, myself, had not been aware of until just last year — thanks to the Corporate Military Industrial Media!

    No, I have not been to Ground Zero and yes, I understand WTC7’s proximity to the Twin Towers. However, WTC3 & 4 were closer in proximity.

    Still, destruction of property is certainly a facet of terrorism, wouldn’t you agree? And here you have WTC7 omitted from the 9/11 Commission Report. Why do you feel compelled to answer why it was omitted? Let the government respond. How could that be construed as unreasonable?

    For anyone who, like me, was not aware of the collapse of WTC7, World Trade Center 7 collapsed at 5:20 PM ET, 9/11/2001, some 8 hours after the collapse of the Twin Towers. WTC7 was a 47-story, steel-framed skyscraper that was not struck by an aircraft and any mention of WTC7 or its collapse was entirely omitted from the 9/11 Commission Report.

  • Zeitgeist – If it can be as close to definitively established as possible that Pakistan is both harboring bin Laden/terrorist training camps, and is doing nothing about it, I think we have to work on many fronts to change that. This is something we never did with Afghanistan, I don’t believe, but I don’t think that Afghanistan should necessarily be the model for how we would proceed in Pakistan, unless the circumstances would duplicate those that existed when we went into Afghanistan – namely, after a direct attack on the US that can be tied in some substantive way with Pakistan.

    There is some value in a policy that says we will hunt down terrorists wherever they are, but we also cannot impose ourselves on sovereign countries at will. As to whether Pakistan does or does not effectively control the region where bin Laden is reported to be hiding, we all know that that won’t matter when or if we attack without the express permission of the Pakistani government. In fact, it will probably be the first thing that gets thrown in our faces as that thing we know as an “act of war,” and the justification for retaliatory action.

  • JKap, you seem fixated on WTC 7, and I suspect that is just because of the “WTC” in the name. I did not respond to those questions in part because I believe my prior comment had covered the same ground.

    When I say “fixated on WTC 7” I mean that you do not seem concerned with any of the literally dozens of other buildings that were partially collapsed, rendered so unsound that they were later demolished, or which were severely damaged but salvagable. I agree with you that property destruction is surely one impact of terrorism. But here the focus of the attacks, presumably for reasons symbolic, financial, and deadly, were the two towers. Everything else was collateral. So it makes sense to focus on (a) the real target and (b) where the most, and most direct, damage was done. If you say “they should have looked at WTC 7 as well,” on the property destruction theory, then why not the severely damaged hotel across the street, the condo building that was still too damages for occupation years after 9/11, the Verizon HQ where debris impaled the switch building like those photos of tornadoes driving straw through house walls (aside: that was pretty freakin wild to look at)? There was literally blocks’ worth of collateral damage – worse up close, but still some in the next block or two out. Where do you draw the line? What does it add to the investigation to go out any distance? (I’ll give you one: engineering training on how to make buildings stronger, but that is true of every building problem and we don’t do federal reports on every building issue across the country.)

    The absence of perfect information does not a conspiracy make. The best information we do have, combined with the implausibility of truly maintaining a cover-up of the magnitude required for any other theories, along with the well-advised application of Occams Razor all suggest that this was as it appeared on my live TV broadcast as I got ready for work on 9/11/2001: two big, heavy, fuel-filled airliners hit two tall buildings designed to be nearly transparent and the result (not surprising, really) was catastrophic failure.

  • the three main pillars Military/Defense. Financial/Investment Banks, Ag/corporate farming, The Democrats are backing all three pillars, no difference between them and the Republicans, as Pat B. has rightly called the Republican Party the War Party so will many liberal democratic’s after Hilary and Obama are busy expanding the Army and dropping Cruise Missiles all over the planet in the name of the War on Terror.

  • There is some value in a policy that says we will hunt down terrorists wherever they are,

    Gee Anne, maybe some other country will decide you are a terrorist and want to hunt you and your family wherever you are living, oh, they even might use cruise missles so don’t stay in the same spot over night.

  • Occams Razor tells me 9-11 was a planned demolition. It also tells me something about comment 14.

    I went to ground zero three weeks after 9-11 and saw signifcant damage to one of the surrounding buildings. There was a huge hunk of skyscraper sticking in it like a knife. It was surreal, yet the buiding was standing there. Building 7 collapsed completely from a couple of small fires, but this building with a hunk of trade center stuck in it, that I saw with my own eyes, was standing fine.

    There’s a reason JKap is “fixated on WTC7.” A good reason.

  • Haik (#10),

    I’m afraid you give me unwarranted credit. Knowing something about demography doesn’t enable me to reach a conclusion about 9/11. I’m inclined to suspect a partial conspiracy, if only through passive enabling by the Bush administration. Even that can run the gamut from total ignorance (still culpable) to seeing political opportunites in letting the attacks occur without interference (a view which I’m inclined toward since it fits what I know about Rove-think and the neocons – the “Pearl Harbor” comment in PNAC’s document).

  • Gee, ron, maybe one day your reading comprehension skills will improve to the point where they will allow you to make comments that actually make sense.

  • Look at this way, Zeitgeist, three skyscrapers collapsed on 9/11/2001 (only two were struck by aircraft). One of those skyscrapers was entirely omitted from the 9/11 Commission Report. To me, there is something wrong with that.

  • “I have heard very very few people from anywhere on the political spectrum disagree with Afghanistan — indeed, the Dems have largely argued that one big problem with Iraq is that it detracted from the legitimate fight in Afghanistan, dooming the opportunity to get that one right.”

    I thought our attack on Afgan was completely uncalled for. It made no sense one only has to look at the experience of Russia in that area to understand what the long term results would be. My view was that we would have been much better off to see this as a police problem rather then military and looked for other nations to assist in bringing the leaders to justice through the world court system, very little glory in it but it offers a much better chance to actually bring to Justice those who commited these acts and doesn’t lead to Irag and the continuing war in Afgan.

  • i’m glad cb doesn’t put up a world trade center post. the comment section would probably explode. wasn’t this post about obama?

  • Gee, ron, maybe one day your reading comprehension skills will improve to the point where they will allow you to make comments that actually make sense.

    Anne, sorry if I misread the intent and direction of your post, will read them more carefully in the future

  • wasn’t this post about obama?

    Just Bill- I respect this forum and I’m not trying to be rude, but as Bush does, Obama did start his foreign policy speech by invoking 9-11, and this thread is about the speech and aspects thereof.

    And really-If our politics are predicated on a set of events, those events should be examined and questions about them should not be dismissed as they have been.

  • Haik (#39),

    Great tape; thanks for the link. Hard to believe the the bringing down of that tower wasn’t even discussed officially.

  • To those with gut feelings….

    Do you have gut feelings or ACTIONABLE intelligence? The National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) should have felt like a slug.

    I’m concerned that somebody doesn’t think we have ACTIONABLE intelligence.

    Short excerpt from the 7/17/07 NIE:
    “We assess the group has protected or regenerated key elements of its homeland attack capability, including: a safe haven in the Pakistan Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), operational lieutenants, and its top leadership. Although we discovered only a handful of individuals in the United States with ties to Al-Qaeda senior leadership since 9/11, we judge that Al-Qaeda will intensify its efforts to put operatives here.”

    If this is true, how effective has the alliance between Pakistan and the U.S. been for the past six years?

    Amazing excerpt from Fox News.Intelligence Report Shows al-Qaeda Resurgence, Special Report Brit Hume, 7/12/07
    Catherine Herridge: The five-page classified threat assessment, called “Al-Qaeda Better Positioned to Strike the West,” concludes that the network led by Osama bin Laden and his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri has regrouped along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. The report says bin Laden’s network has regained significant strength and has attempted to rebuild itself. BUT THE PRESIDENT INSISTS IT IS DIMINISHED.”

    “U.S. officials trace al-Qaeda’s resurgence to an agreement last year that was made between Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf and the tribunal leaders who control this vast, essentially lawless and mountainous region along the borrow. Musharraf agreed to pull his security force as long as tribal leaders prevented al-Qaeda and Taliban leaders from establishing safe havens. Despite the agreement, U.S. officials tell Fox that al-Qaeda operates now with greater impunity. It has more freedom to recruit, train, run its propaganda campaign and plot attacks.”

    Pakistan clearly NEEDED to hear Obama’s message because it sounds like our current president is downplaying our NIE.

    Obama is saying and doing what the Commander in Chief needs to do when the country is threatened directly or indirectly by the actions of another country. It sounds to me like Pakistan is taking an unoriginal defense that it isn’t directly responsible for the resurgence of al-Qaeda on its territory. This is 2007!

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