Obama vs Wallace, Round 1

About half-way through his interview on “Fox News Sunday” yesterday, Barack Obama, in response to a question about his propensity to toe the party line, said, “There are a lot of liberal commentators who think I’m too accommodating.”

The irony, of course, is that Obama was saying this on Fox News, which led many to argue he was being far too accommodating by appearing on the Republican network in the first place.

On Friday, after the Obama campaign announced that the senator would end his informal boycott and appear on “Fox News Sunday,” Greg Sargent talked to a campaign advisor who said, “We are clear-eyed about Fox’s role in the dissemination and amplification of Republican talking points this election. They have been the tip of the spear when it comes to repeatedly broadcasting some of the most specious of rumors about Obama. He is going on their Sunday show to take Fox on, not because we have any illusion about their motives or politics in this election.”

That’s not exactly what happened. Not at all, really. Obama did “take on” some of the typical Republican attacks — which Chris Wallace was happy to put into question form — and he was pretty effective at defending himself, but Obama did not push back against the network itself and Fox News’ role in disseminating bogus Republican talking points and pushing smears into the political mainstream.

TPM was kind enough to put together a highlight reel.

Who benefited from Obama’s appearance? It’s hard to say, actually.

Fox News, regrettably, certainly benefited. The reason progressives in general have been so aggressive in urging Dems not to appear on the network is that it legitimizes a partisan news outlet. By Obama appearing on “Fox News Sunday,” the network gets a ratings boost and a credibility boost.

Some wondered in advance about whether Obama might challenge Wallace the way Bill Clinton did during that famous exchange in which the former president became quite animated pushing back against slanted and unfair questions. That was probably an unrealistic expectations; it’s just not Obama’s style.

Which leads us to wonder whether Obama benefited from the appearance. I suppose it was a question of what he hoped to achieve. If the goal was to impress Republicans who might not otherwise hear what he has to say, then Obama may have done fairly well. John Hinderaker, of all people, responded to the interview this way:

Obama showed, once again, that he is a rare political talent. In contrast with his uncharacteristically poor performance in the Pennsylvania debate, Obama handled questions about Wright, Ayers, flag lapel pins–all the hot button topics he would rather avoid–deftly. Rather than showing resentment at being asked about such things, Obama acknowledged that voters want to know who he is, and that these topics are therefore fair game. He skillfully deflected questions on these as well as more substantive issues.

The problem, though, is that Fox News viewers aren’t going to consider Obama anyway, so the strength of his performance is almost secondary.

Andrew Sullivan added:

One of the most striking things I discovered about Obama last year was how many conservatives and Republicans who have encountered or met or engaged him over the years think highly of him. When the partisan right tries to swift-boat him with any number of polarizing clips, smears and half-truths, his best bet is to counter them directly, in the lion’s den. He should do more of these interviews. He should go on O’Reilly and Hannity. His ability to talk to and engage those on the other side of the aisle is real. It’s an asset he shouldn’t hide.

Maybe, but I’m not convinced. The number one indicator of Republican support in 2004 wasn’t NRA membership or attendance at evangelical churches; it was Fox News viewership. We’re talking about an audience that is not just conservative, but blindly loyal to the Republican Party.

They saw Obama capably and intelligently respond to a series of process and trivia questions — polls, Wright, flag pins — but did he “engage” the Republican activists that constitute Fox News’ audience? I’m skeptical.

He may, conceivably, maybe, perhaps, possibly, taken a tiny bit of his Faux generated negative edge off among Fox viewers.

Maybe.

But probably not. They’re probably more convinced than ever that he is a clever stealth Muslim terrorist. And he surely was black, wasn’t he!

But he probably did have to deal with that stupid Faux News Obama clock.” So he did.

  • I AM SUPPORTING A WRITE IN CAMPAIGN FOR OBAMA IF HILLARY WINS THE NOMINATION. ALL OBAMA SUPPORTRERS SHOULD WRITE IN OBAMA ON THE NOVEMBER BALLOT TO PROTEST CLINTONS DIRTY, DESTRUCTIVE, DEVISIVE, CAMPAIGN SHOULD SHE WIN.

  • Obama’s boycott of Fox was always something I liked a lot, but I think he needed to do this.

    I do wish he’d pushed back more forcefully against their BS — or even backhandedly thanked Matthews for smacking down the morning-crew morons of Fox and Friends for all their Obama bashing — but you’re right, that’s not his style. Also, this was a longer pre-taped interview, and if he’d gone for the jugular, there’s no telling how they’d splice it.

    In the end, I think it worked. True, Fox viewership is a reliable indicator of Republicanism, but it’s not just die-hard Republicans who watch it. Conservative Democrats and, more important, independents watch the station too, especially in states like Ind. and NC. Given Obama’s need to reach out to them, it’s probably good that he spoke up for himself there. (And, too, given all the charges of elitism, seeming to duck an interview wasn’t helping.)

    I wish he could’ve maintained the boycott, but I think this was a necessary move on the campaign’s part.

  • Obama does not have what it takes to take it to the jokers on Fox. Clinton (both of them, actually) do, and should Obama win the nomination, the DNC should send each of the Clintons to Fox to battle it out. As the article suggests, it would not lose the Democrats any voters – And it might gain a few.

    Going on Fox does, to a certain extent, legitamize Fox. But no more so than the millions of other appearances that these candidates do in the smallest hamlets, or localest of local radio and TV, do to “Legitamize” the views of these outlets.

    The left has to learn how to know and engage its enemy. Kerry was too reluctant, and I fear Obama is, also. Remeber Dean’s appearance with O’reilly? O’reilly had to cut it short, he was getting his ass kick so bad. Sure, it’s their crib – We can not be afraid of that.

    Swiftboating will rear its ugly head – What will Obama do to respond? You can not “Engage” Hannity and O’reilly. You have to beat them at their own game, on their own turf. I don’t think Obama has that in him.

  • This is a smart move when viewed from the “blindly loyal” angle. If Obama can show he’s not what Fox says about him, he can start the task of attacking the network as a whole.

    The people who watch Fox do not want their worldview challenged, probably more than most. It’s part of his “blue collar” problem. People with less education, more religion, living in rural areas probably have not travelled much or been exposed to many people different from them. Makes for difficult to change people….

  • He was smart not to go on and attack, he wants to reach out to the bear-swigging, gun toting, white person group, and he can’t do that if he comes off as combative, they’ll think he’s a militant black person, but by coming off as friendly he appears non-threatening, less radical. He needs to wind Indiana so he can finally end this foolishness and get focused on McSame, I think his Fox appearance helps him.

  • Forgive me if somebody mentioned this, but to my surprise, Chris Wallace didn’t wear his usual condescending smirk during the interview, was significantly less combative than usual when interviewing Democrats and, for the most part, he didn’t interrupt.

    This is pure speculation, but I can’t help but wander if the Obama campaign laid down some ground rules about Chris Wallace’s conduct before agreeing to the interview??? Ignoring the questions themselves for a sec, it was unusual to see Wallace behaving like an adult for a change.

  • Bignose (#4),

    While you are free to back whichever candidate you like, and the Clintons are certainly playing up the fighter theme, I’d just point out the things that have gotten the most traction in the MSM have been things like Reverend Write, lapel pins and Ayers–all of which Obama has handled as well as any candidate could–and he is still winning. I don’t buy the idea that Barack Obama can’t fight the Republican slime machine. He can and will. What we are seeing now is his class in choosing not to shred an opponent in his own party.

    Further, there are really two factors why the Democratic Party nomination is still going on. One, the Clinton machine is the biggest, most entrenched faction currently in the Democratic Party. Any candidate other than a Clinton would already be out. Second, this is an historic nomination because it is between a woman and an African American man so naturally the party is torn about which to back. This creates the situation we find ourselves in where the delegates are split between two strong and history-making candidates.

    You may not prefer Obama, but the time is coming soon when the Party will have its nominee. If, as seems likely, Obama is that person, then prepare to support him…unless you want McCain to be the next POTUS. Same goes for Obama backers. If Clinton somehow gets the nomination, then they need to rally around Clinton.

  • I think it was a good move…in fact, an aquaintance (34 yr old repub woman), who owns her business, is very intelligent, but for some bizarre reason sincerely believes Fox news IS the most fair and ballanced has seen the light and will be voting for Obama. I’m hoping there are a lot more of her out there!

  • @ #2: ALL OBAMA SUPPORTRERS SHOULD WRITE IN OBAMA ON THE NOVEMBER BALLOT TO PROTEST CLINTONS DIRTY, DESTRUCTIVE, DEVISIVE, CAMPAIGN SHOULD SHE WIN.

    Nope. If Sen. Clinton gets the nod, I’ll vote for her. I may not enjoy it, but anything beats four more years of slope-browed, knuckle-dragging retards in the White House.

    I mean, really. Is throwing a temper tantrum really more important to you than your country? Think hard about this.

  • Independant Thinker –

    I think you need to go back and read my post again, before you get your hackles up. I was not advocating Clinton, or really dissing Obama. My point was to point out a difference in styles that make Obama vulnerable in this particular case.

    I will happily vote for either one of them, just to be clear – For slightly different reasons, either one will be great as president, I think.

    Obama is not at his best in this type of situation. He is good at separating himself from the fray, and taking the high road – One of his best qualities.

    The Clintons are pit bulls, for better or worse, which is why I suggest they act as surrrogates, if (And most probably, when) Obama is nominated. Kerry should have used surrogates with military credibility more quickly to refute the charges, but he didn’t, and lost.

  • Well, remember that most Fox News viewers probably consider McCain to be a RHINO, so they might actually consider switching to vote for someone who stands by his convictions, or at the very least could just stay home if Obama convinces them he’s no Muslim bogeyman.

  • Do we want Obama to be an avatar for our own dissatisfaction for the way things have become in the Publican/corporate kleptocracy of the past several years – and to be as belligerent as we’d like to think we ourselves would be in the same situations? Or do we want him to be himself, the self that attracted many of us to him in the first place (or maybe the second, after Edwards, Dodd, et. al…).

    Senator Obama has always been very upfront about the fact that he likes to work in a Both/And paradigm rather than the Either/Or foisted on us by the Publicans and their DLC trolls in the Democratic party. So even though we don’t want to help Faux Noise find any legitimization, because we basically want to silence them, we can’t expect that Senator Obama with his already expressed preference for the way to talk with opponents to agree with us 100%

  • I wonder if it’s no accident that Obama agreed to sit down with Wallace, as it was Wallace that criticized those three talking heads on Fox who went on and on about the Wright flap, and did it to their faces on-air and at some length.

  • I did not like his minimizing dailykos – other than that, it was OK I guess; unlike Hillary who uses Ed Rendell to go on Fox and praise the network, Obama made the point that Fox was pushing “distractions”, without actually using those words.

  • Taking on Fox news at this time would have been insanely ignorant.
    Keep in mind it is not just Fox news that is spreading Wright, flag-pins, elitism, and bitterness.
    The Clinton dead-enders are just as responsible.

    CB’s quote from the right-wing John Hinderaker shows Barack nuanced it just right:

    Obama handled questions about Wright, Ayers, flag lapel pins–all the hot button topics he would rather avoid–deftly. Rather than showing resentment at being asked about such things….

    Perfect. Calling these issues bogus would have inflamed the Clinton-Cheney dead-enders and we would have another week of their empty rancor and their eager bitterness.

    It was a great interview; a fair interview.
    Barack handled himself exceptionally well.
    And as far as I can tell: he nailed two dead-ender cults with one stone.

  • My partner’s parents watch Fox. Although they are relatively conservative, it’s in the more traditional sense of the word. They’ve been seriously considering voting for Obama in the fall since neither one of them care for McCain. Better yet, it wouldn’t be a protest vote. It would be because they honestly think he might be the better candidate. While I loathe and despise Faux News, and I admire Obama for boycotting as long as he did, in the end it’s probably better that he went on so he could reach people like my future in-laws and Jess’s (#11) acquaintance.

    Dudley (#15) mentioned an important point, too. If the usual Fox viewers get a look at him and decide he isn’t the devil incarnate, even if they won’t vote for him, they may be more likely to sit it out in November.

  • Mort wrote:Obama handled questions about Wright, Ayers, flag lapel pins–all the hot button topics he would rather avoid–deftly.

    Well, if he had spent as much time practicing his bowling as he has answering those dumbass questions, he’d be good at that too.

    I think the equation is pretty clear. Advisers decide he needs more blue collar outreach so they go to Fox.

    I was disappointed Obama went on Fox. We are the voters. We wuz born to be hurt.

  • Obama was targeting my in-laws. They are people who hate Clinton and who are entirely disillusioned by the GOP but still watch FOX and are trying to figure out what to do.

  • If Fox News came out ahead, then why did they scrub any video of the encounter? Last night my sig-other wanted to read Fox’s take on the ‘stomping’, but there was NO mention of it. All a reader could find was a transcript of the interview. Not exactly exploiting the exposure of Satan. If Barack was exposed in any right-wing sense, they would have played it up BIG, but all was silenced.

    I think BHO handled it well, and the few fence-sitters who tune-in via choice/or hostage were not frightened or infuriated by his words. The rest~ they weren’t gonna vote for him anyway.

  • Why can I see the video of this interview on Fox News website? I was in church and couldn’t watch the interview. I continue to see Fox News play Obama pastor sermons. Why not the interview with Obama. Did he clarify himself during the interview? What happened?

    Fox News, please, please let me see the video.

  • a really ‘red’ business associate (from TX) confided after a couple glasses of whiskey that if obama had more ‘experience’ he would vote for him. i somehow doubt it, but for him to even say it opens doors of possibility.

    re: fox news interview — yet another example of obama as uniter, healer, transcender. i think even (some) republicans secretly are drawn to it, against their dogmatic conditioning.

  • I’m very disappointed in Obama for doing this. The Dems need to stand firm in the understanding that Fox is a propaganda outlet, not a legitimate source of news. Obama’s actions weakened that stance. I still support him, but I don’t like this move.

  • McCain breaks a promise by going after Wright after he said he wouldn’t. He is being called unprincipled for doing so.

    Obama breaks a promise by appearing on Fox News after he said he wouldn’t. He is equally unprincipled for doing so.

    Obama is going on Fox News because his momentum has slipped and he is hoping to gain new supporters. He is also trying to reach some of the same audience McCain is reaching with his criticisms of Wright. He is doing it because it serves his campaign interests. There is nothing high-minded about this. Obama made a pledge when he thought it would gain him votes and now he is breaking it because he needs to gain some different votes. It is just about campaigning and Obama is a politician just like all other politicians.

    There are no NEW politicians. There are only elected politicians and defeated politicians. The joke is that anyone believed Obama when he called himself a different kind of politician.

  • Mary,

    I see nothing wrong with Obama’s decision to go on Fox at this time. He has already made his point by staying away so long. But honestly, to completely tune out potential voters (as few as that might be) would be a huge mistake. And come on, changing his mind about going on Fox is certainly not in the same league as, say, committing to not participating in state primaries that violate Party rules and then turning around and participating by leaving her name on the ballot.

  • I just picture a bunch of dead-eyed, midwestern Republican loyalists watching that interview, not understanding a word Barack said, and convincing themselves over and over again that a black man who speaks all slick is trying to con his way into the White House. Like in that movie with Eddie Murphy.

  • Some wondered in advance about whether Obama might challenge Wallace the way Bill Clinton did during that famous exchange in which the former president became quite animated pushing back against slanted and unfair questions. That was probably an unrealistic expectations; it’s just not Obama’s style.

    Not only is it not Obama’s style, it would have been ridiculously counterproductive. Sure, former president Clinton can go on and blast Fox, what does he have to lose? Nobody who is still in politics and trying to engage voters among Fox viewers would go on in an antagonistic stance.

    Fox News viewers aren’t going to consider Obama anyway, so the strength of his performance is almost secondary.

    This is really wrong. As other commenters have noted, there are lots of people who are disappointed/frustrated with Bush in particular and the Republicans in general who nevertheless consider Fox News the most reliable news source. I’ve got a heap of these people in my extended family. (I don’t consider their choice rational, but they aren’t asking me, a naive liberal.) These are exactly the kind of people who can be convinced by Obama’s interview that he might be worth considering, or at least that he’s not such a danger that it’s necessary to vote for McCain when they otherwise wouldn’t.

    Paul Wellstone got votes from a lot of these disgruntled Republicans in Minnesota. I knew people who would say flat out that they didn’t agree with his policies, but they knew that he was honest and open about what he wanted to do and they trusted this more than the “say anything/do anything” approach of other politicians, both Republican and Democrat.

  • And sending either Clinton onto Fox News as “pitbull” surrogates for Obama would be exactly the wrong thing to do for the general election. Unless you want to motivate the Clinton-haters to vote for McCain.

  • I think this might well have been helpful. Remember, elections aren’t just about convincing people to vote for you. They’re also about convincing people they don’t need to vote against you. And sure, while a good 75% of Fox viewers are likely to vote against Obama, if he can convince 25% or 15% or even 5% that he’s not the Big Bad Wolf and that they don’t need to bother to show up on Election Day, that might make all the difference. And the only way to get this to happen is to go into the belly of the beast and directly challenge the lies they keep saying about him.

    Thus said, I’d prefer if Obama didn’t make a habit of going on Fox. But as long as this is an exception that proves the rule kind of thing, that’s fine. I don’t want him making regular appearances on Fox & Friends, but showing up once to fight back just makes his absence all the more poigniant.

  • Obama Clinton made a pledge when he she thought it would gain him her votes and now heshe is breaking it because heshe needs to gain some different votes.

    re: Michigan and Florida; there fixed it for you.

  • #27 Mary: Obama breaks a promise by appearing on Fox News after he said he wouldn’t. He is equally unprincipled for doing so.

    mary, your ham-fisted spin qualifies you for a job with either a) the clinton campaign or b) the MSM

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