Obama’s uncle, a concentration camp, and molehill politics to the extreme

John Harris noted the other day, “The signature defect of modern political journalism is that it has shredded the ideal of proportionality.” Important stories, resulting after extensive journalistic work, go by unnoticed, while trivial stories — “the kind that are tailor-made for forwarding to your brother-in-law or college roommate with a wisecracking note at the top” — capture the political world’s attention.

Yesterday, was Exhibit A. In a sign of just how desperate far-right conservatives have become — and just how odd their standards are — we saw one of the dumber outrages of the 2008 presidential campaign.

Speaking in New Mexico on Memorial Day, Obama said a great-uncle had helped to liberate the Auschwitz death camp at the end of World War II. “I had a uncle who was one of the, who was part of the first American troops to go into Auschwitz and liberate the concentration camps,” Obama said (a YouTube clip of the remarks quickly went viral online).

He continued: “And the story in my family is that when he came home, he just went into the attic, and he didn’t leave the house for six months. All right? Now, obviously something had affected him deeply, but at the time, there just weren’t the kinds of facilities to help somebody work through that kind of pain.”

That may be a fact, the RNC noted gleefully — but only if Obama’s uncle had served in the Red Army of Joseph Stalin, which liberated Auschwitz on Jan. 27, 1945.

Obama’s campaign said yesterday that he had erred in naming the camp but not in describing the role of his great-uncle, who partook in the liberation of Buchenwald.

That’s it. That’s the whole story. Obama said his uncle had liberated one Nazi concentration camp, when in fact, his uncle had liberated a different Nazi concentration camp. Obama got the name of the camp wrong. There was no obvious intention to deceive anyone, or exaggerate a record in a dishonest way. A presidential candidate simply misidentified the specific camp his mother’s brother liberated. An innocent mistake, barely worth raising an eyebrow over.

And yet, Republicans instantly turned the Outrage Machine to 11, as if Obama had claimed to have liberated Buchenwald himself.

For the entire day yesterday, most of the far-right voices wanted to talk about nothing else but Obama’s shameful “lies.” The Republican National Committee issued a statement, arguing that Obama’s minor error “raise[s] questions about his judgment” and his “readiness to lead.” Unhinged conservative bloggers went completely around the bend — Red State said Obama’s remarks were “sickening” and “a bold faced lie.”

It’s as if Republicans woke up yesterday, ate a bowl of Crazy Flakes, and then went straight for their keyboards. (Regrettably, some of Clinton’s more rabid supporters joined the far-right on this one, though there’s no evidence that the campaign itself was pushing this story.)

The service of Obama’s great uncle was actually pretty amazing. He served in the 89th Infantry Division that liberated Ohrdruf in April 1945, a Subcamp of Buchenwald, which was the first camp liberated by Americans. Obama misstated the name of the camp. What difference does it make? Has the political world become so consumed with bile, and so overwhelmed with trivia, that this harmless error is evidence of something important?

Or, as the LAT’s Stuart Silverstein put it, “What’s worse, Obama’s apparent gaffe or the RNC pouncing on a Holocaust-related historical mistake for political advantage?”

If Obama’s uncle hadn’t served in the military, or hadn’t even left the country during World War II, I could see this being more embarrassing and newsworthy. Ronald Reagan, for example, boasted that he’d served in an Army unit that filmed recently liberated death camps. In reality, Reagan never left the U.S. during the war. Later, Reagan claimed to have seen secret military film of Nazi atrocities, though the film didn’t actually exist.

That’s controversial. Obama’s inconsequential error was utterly meaningless. That this became a huge deal to the Republican Attack Machine highlights just how far off the edge these poor schmoes have fallen.

Of course, it were a Repub candidate, the Repubs would have demanded that the history books were to be rewritten so that the gaffe was indeed true.

I’d rather support a candidate who got the name of the concentration camp wrong but whose great uncle helped liberated it over a president whose great grandfather indirectly helped the Nazis fund them.

  • Wow, that’s all they’ve got? Really?

    November is going to hurt like a bitch for them.

  • Why does the Republican Smear Machine go into overdrive over something so trivial?

    It’s all they’ve got.

  • And to think, this is just the start. We have months of this kind of nonsense ahead of us. No discussion or dissection of policy issues. None on any items of substance to our lives. Sound blips to be taken in whatever context the deliverer so chooses.

    And then the ultimate attack will come about three days before the election when the wingers and compliant media release a “Obama killed and ate his dog” type of out there story (can you imagine if the whole Madrassa/Muslim story hit just prior to the election? Look at how many people still believe it!) and that will be that.

    There is nothing these criminals won’t do to retain power. And since we are a population of the dumbest kind, it will work.

  • How long before Hillary’s campaign makes this a talking point? I give it about 6 more hours.

  • And yet, Republicans instantly turned the Outrage Machine to 11

    It doesn’t have any other setting.

    I imagine there’s a “boy who cried wolf” dynamic at work, where no one but the wingnut core bothers to pay any attention to these faux dustups. At least I hope so.

  • The whole thing was indeed stupid and meaningless, but it was no more stupid and meaningless than the uproar over Hillary Clinton’s RFK remarks last week.

    You say parenthetically (liiterally): “(Regrettably, some of Clinton’s more rabid supporters joined the far-right on this one, though there’s no evidence that the campaign itself was pushing this story.)” The same was true for Obama supporters on the silly RFK flap.

  • There is also the diversion factor. Obama’s point was that we need to care for soldiers who come home from war with PTSD. In light of the Perez memo from last week, and the increased incidence of PTSD over the last two years, the right would far rather be talking about death camps. Would anyone like to chime in now about Bush’s ancestors during that time period?

  • What goes around comes around. Senator Smirky and his band of merry followers savaged Senator Clinton for misremembering a few minor details about her brave trip to Tuzla. Now he’s being caught in a net of his own arrogant making.

    Of course Obama supporters will not stop to consider how average, hardworking Americans in red states will view this horrendous lie, so let me explain it to you. They will see this as further confirmation that Sir Hide-a-lot has socialist connections galore in his family, from his lifelong friendship with Bill Ayers to his great-uncle’s position in Stalin’s Red Army. Obama will lose in November because of his sneaky propensity to hide his real views from real Americans and the women of America, including me, will laugh, yes, laugh, laugh, laugh as he goes up in flames and John McCain is elected president.

  • Plain and simple: REPIGLICANS EQUAL A FIENDISH EVIL … REPIGLICANS EQUAL THE STENCH EMANATING FROM THE ASSHOLE OF LUCIFER HIMSELF, REPIGLICANS ARE NOTHING MORE THAN HEMMROIDS ON THE ASSHOLE OF LUCIFEER … REPICLICANS EQUAL NOTHING MORE THAN RANCID SECRETIONS , SHIT, COMING OUT OF LUCIFER’S ASSHOLE

  • That’s what CNN is reduced to these days – a TV arm of redstate.com.

    Candy Crowley’s puke-inducing coverage was quite a spectacle.

  • “There is also the diversion factor.” — DanP

    Yep! SOP for the right, but interestingly, one of the tactics that Obama is running against. I hope he keeps pointing it out until maybe people start to catch on.

  • All this outrage coming from the same party whose PRESIDENT’S PRESS SECRETARY didn’t know about the Cuban Missile Crisis?!?!

  • A presidential candidate simply misidentified the specific camp his mother’s brother liberated. An innocent mistake, barely worth raising an eyebrow over.

    A blogger simply misidentified Obama’s great uncle as his mother’s brother. An innocent mistake, barely worth raising an eyebrow over. 😉

  • This camp or that camp, what’s the difference. To Pastor Hagee they were all just hunting lodges.

  • Remember The Wizard of OZ? Remember the silly little man behind the curtain, using smoke and mirrors and a big scary voice to portray himself as the all-powerful wizard?

    It’s the same thing here—except that the silly little man in The Wizard of OZ was a much better man than the pimping little boy-whores over atRedState….

  • By all means, let them try to generate outrage on this one. In my opinion, I think reasonable conservatives and independents will see the molehill for what it is here. And that will simply make the outrage-mongers look dumb.

  • It’s deja vu all over again. I recall Al Gore stating in a debate that he had accompanied (highly competent) FEMA director James Lee Witt to the scene of a tornado in Texas, then having a conservative friend rail on about Gore lies (Gore had visited the Texas disaster site – but not with Witt, though he had been to other recovery locations with Witt) and how this proved Bush had “superior character” to Gore.

    I hope this was a one-day spectacle, though the right-wing will milk as much slime as they can — since they live in it.

  • Yes, nos. 9 and 13. The diversion factor not only works against the point that Hon. Sen. Obama was making, but this nonsense also crowds out any chance that the nightly news might cover some other real story.

  • Mary,

    For what it’s worth, Hillary’s comments on Tuzla were a complete lie. If that incident had happened, but it was somewhere else and she had gotten the name of the city or country wrong, it would have been analogous to this case. But it wasn’t.

    -Franklin.

  • You weren’t so kind when Clinton misremembered Tuzla. Now we have Bush misremembering whether he used cocaine or not. Memory is fragile no matter what someone’s political views, and even Obama is not immune to memory mistakes. If he deserves a pass, so do the others. But you folks were brutal to Clinton, so I’m not inclined to forgive Obama — that deliberate liar, that embellisher of facts to enhance his own stature. See how unfair that is?

    I’m glad to see Obama hauling out his white relatives whenever it suits him and completely ignoring his relatives in Kenya who would not reflect so well on him, being part of the oppressive ruling party there. Everyone cries guilt-by-association when opponents attempt to link a candidate with an unsavory other, but you also cannot be wonderful by association either. Obama is not a patriot because his great uncle was in WWII (when most able-bodied men had little choice about going), nor does he understand what PTSD is like because someone he heard about in family stories was upset by the concentration camps. PTSD occurs when a person narrowly escapes death or disfigurement — it isn’t the same as depression or adjustment problems or whatever other distress Obama’s uncle had.

    It is one of the more inane statements to suggest that Obama’s uncle was affected by his war experiences and therefore needed help. War is horrible and human beings are affected by it, as they should be if they remain human. Everyone in war is and should be similarly affected. That doesn’t mean they have PTSD or require therapy. When people go through modern day traumatic experiences (such as earthquakes or tornadoes, car accidents or death of a relative) they are similar upset and affected by them, but studies are now routinely showing that universal therapy is not needed and not even beneficial, except for the small proportion who have serious difficulty coping. Unless Obama’s uncle spent the rest of his life in that attic, his reaction isn’t particularly problematic. The expectation that soldiers should immediately resume their normal lives and the overwhelming desire of those at home to get back to normal was the problem, not the soldiers’ understandable need to decompress and readjust.

  • And was it even Obama’s mistake? It may really have been the family story that it was Auschwitz, and the error came from another family member who had misremembered the specific camp.

    We have plenty of family stories that are slightly wrong in the details. (One example I have is that an ancestor was a milnewright–wagonmaker–when in fact, as I found out when I researched further, he was a millwright–he engineered and build gristmills.)

  • Rush played a clip of Obama’s Memorial Day speech at least 10 times where Obama said something like “a long unbroken line of fallen war heros; some of which I see are here today.”

    I know my paraphrase is not accurate but the point was that Obama saw a bunch of dead veterans in the audience.

    OK, he said something stupid. Cut Obama some slack.

    Of course, Rush would never, ever, NEVER be unfair to a Democrat, now would he?

    After all, what Obama did wasn’t tooooo terrible.

    It is not like he bowled a 37.

  • given that the Repubs went to their 04 convention wearing purple band aids mocking Kerry’s Vietnam service, I assume they are looking for a similar tactic this year. Maybe they will go to the 08 convention with “I liberated Auschwitz” buttons.

  • Dude, Mary.

    Tell me which would be more memorable.

    Whether or not YOU PERSONALLY had to land somewhere under sniper fire?

    Or details about your great-uncle’s story about how he liberated a camp in World War II?

    How can you even compare them?

  • Mary, come on. Obama was remembering something a relative had told him – not a personal experience. Also Obama’s anecdote did not make Obama look better or worse than if he had been talking about some complete stranger. Hillary, on the other hand, was telling the Tuzla story (several times, I might add) at a time when she needed to defend her claims to have dealt with international crises. There’s a huge difference.

  • the ultimate attack will come about three days before the election

    when Cheney/Bush initiate the shock-and-awe stage of the air war on Iran,
    counting on Americans to once again rally ’round their government in wartime
    and counting on being able to steal this election too
    while we’re distracted watching explosions on CNN

    … if the election isn’t “postponed” during the “national emergency”

    … or perhaps it’ll be an October Reichstag fire / terrorist attack within the US

    One thing I’ve learned over the last eight years:
    nothing is beyond the pale with these guys. Nothing.

  • Also, Mary, Obama wasn’t specifying that his uncle had PTSD. He’s just saying that war will mess people up, and that we should prepare to take psychological care of our soldiers when they come home from war.

  • Franklin, the news media at the time were filled with video of people running across streets under sniper fire. Source monitoring failure does not only occur between items that are part of one’s own personal experience, but also across media events witnessed and personal experiences, or even things imagined and personal experience. That’s why Reagan confused his own past with a movie. Ulric Neisser demonstrated in his book about memories of the Challenger disaster that people routinely confused their own memories with what they saw on TV as that event was replayed over and over in the ensuing days. Clinton was talking about an event 12 years in the past. It would be surprising if she could get every detail correct and it is obvious where her conflation came from.

    But, when so many people think the sun goes around the earth, it is not surprising that a bunch of Obama supporters know nothing whatsoever about how memory works, including everyday memory errors that EVERYONE makes. You probably have wonderful “he said, she said” arguments with your wife in which you both accuse each other of lying about past conversations. “I distinctly remember telling you…no, I said…” This is what happens when people think their minds are like videorecorders and any deviation during playback must be a deliberate lie.

  • Mary. Are you saying that I’m likely to confuse watching a video of sniper fire to actually experiencing it?? Or that I might remember I had been involved in WWII when in fact I had NEVER LEFT THE STATES DURING THE WAR?

    Wow. What the hell has happened to you?

    Sure, I could misremember an argument I saw on TV as one I had in the past.. maybe. Because my freaking life was not in danger and it was not a pivotal epic part of my career. But sniper fire and freaking WWII? How messed up are your family/friends that you have these standards?

  • And the Red meme also rises. Obama’s great uncle was a commie soldier?

    Republican are always “gone phishing.”

  • …“a long unbroken line of fallen war heroes; some of which I see are here today.”

    When you’ve been used as a prop by the Bushylvanians, then you can be accurately defined as “fallen.” As in “knocked off the pedestal and into a bucket of bovine excrement” fallen. The kind of fallen where it’ll take you years and years to get back up, after scrubbing away all the filth that is the “blanket of besmirchment”—whereby you become hideously soiled merely by being used for political gain—placed upon you by the Bushylvanians/

  • Tamalak,

    And I am saying that you don’t need to give therapy to the entire military when they experience horrible events. Horrible events are part of life and definitely part of war. We are evolutionarily equipped to deal with them. It is abnormal coping that needs support, the failure of coping. When a loved one dies, this failure to cope is called complicated grieving and you recognize it when someone isn’t improving after a year. In war or other trauma, it is called PTSD and it occurs under limited and specific circumstances. Obama needs to get his staff to read something about PTSD before he equates his great uncle’s behavior with a disorder, and he also needs to read the literature on post-traumatic therapy. Scott Lilienfeld reviews some of it in his book “Science and Pseudoscience in Clinical Psychology.” There is a whole section on PTSD. Not only does therapy not help in many cases, it can be harmful when a person is already working their way through an experience. The problem is the expectation that a person shouldn’t be affected by what has happened at all or should bounce back on someone else’s time schedule (Obama’s, for example).

  • Hell, in 1984, the 40th anniversary of D-Day, that senile old fartbag claimed he’d been there, too.

    Rule #1 for Republicans: IOKIYAR

  • Former Dan said I’d rather support a candidate who got the name of the concentration camp wrong but whose great uncle helped liberated it over a president whose great grandfather indirectly helped the Nazis fund them.

    Actually, it was grandpa Bush, Preston, and he didn’t “indirectly” help – he funded the rise of the Nazis and invested directly in companies that did take part in supplying the necessary materials for the death camps.

  • Tamalak, yes, that is exactly what I am suggesting. Read something about False Memory. There was a teacher who recalled being at a sniper playground shooting when she was actually at a doctor’s appointment (verifiably) on that day. There was another person who recalled years later being part of the group kidnapped at Chowchilla who was verifiably not on the bus. These are described by Ofshe in “Making Monsters,” I believe. There were people debriefed from WWII Camp Erika who witnessed a murder by guards, who 20 years later stated that they had never seen such an event. Another person was reported as beaten by guards (by other witnesses and by his own statement upon liberation) who later stated during the war crimes trial that the beating had happened to someone else. These cases are described in Baddeley’s textbook on memory.

  • Mary– Awesome parody of a Hillary troll. Really spot on, especially in the complete stupidity of the logic and the mean little nicknames. You, my friend, are an artist. Keep up the good work!

  • “..A presidential candidate simply misidentified the specific camp his mother’s brother liberated.”

    Wow! Steve finally made a mistake. He meant to write “his grandmother’s brother.” I hope you all realize this means he’s unfit for blogging. 😉

    btw, doesn’t everyone call their great uncle uncle?

  • Interesting comments. Mary, youre deluded. Hillary flat out claimed, not once, but multiple times, of enduring sniper fire and having to run for cover even after she was confronted time and time again with the actual facts of the matter. Only then did she reluctantly suggest that she might have mis-remembered those events. She didnt even have the guts to admit an obvious lie. She counts on folks like you to overlook it. We have had enough lies and dishonesty.

  • There was also the professor of history at UMass Amherst (or Amherst college?) who was teaching a course about Vietnam. Initially he told stories about events that had happened to another person but over the years he began attributing the stories to his own experience. When it was demonstrated (because of a new book he had published) that he had not been at those battles or in those locations during the Vietnam war (although he was in Vietnam in another capacity), there was a scandal and he left his teaching position. I actually think it is common for people who have been in war to start telling stories about being in well-known battles, especially if they were a clerk behind the lines and didn’t do anything exciting or heroic, and then come to believe their own stories. But, there is no doubt Clinton was actually at Tuzla and also little doubt that she frequently went to places less safe than the USA. Her worry about her trips might have inflated memories of the relative danger 12 years in the past. Anyone would worry about going into a war-torn country, even under protection. Most of us worry before each plane flight. As I said, memory is not a record of truth. It is a vehicle for using past experience to guide current action, and it errs on the side of safety. It is reconstructed from schemas and concepts, not a factual record of experience and the less actual episodic memory (sensory detail) remains about an event, the greater the reliance on schemas. Clinton’s statements were made 12 years later. Everyone’s schema for Bosnia includes sniper fire because that is what we all saw on the news (and later in “Wag the Dog,” where Bosnia was thinly disguised as Albania) — recall the girl running from snipers shown repeatedly throughout the film?

  • Are you kidding? — “the sun goes around the earth, the sun goes around the earth”

    I included the references to sources above so that you could go and look up these examples. Choose to disbelieve if you want, but that excludes you from the reality-based community. It is no crime to be stupid, but it is a great crime to be uneducated, deliberately so it appears in your case.

    You cannot simultaneously criticize Clinton and excuse Obama when both have merely been human. Rejecting an entire psychological literature in order to maintain hatred of Clinton is majorly pathetic, in my opinion.

  • Well then its simple. If Hillary has this mental “disorder” of remembering things that never happened, then its safe to say she shouldnt be President. What if she “remembered” that we were attacked by some rogue nation when in fact, we werent?

    Seriously though, its not her memory thats the problem, its that she lies so much she cant recall what she has said and she trips herself up. She thinks people are idiots and will believe whatever she tells them. Thank God, we live in a digital age where someones comments and remarks can be verified within minutes. She lied, end of story.

  • So Mary is now a parody of herself, right?

    Apparently so. Tears are running down my face, I’m laughing so hard.

    It also appears from the comments in this thread that this clearly disturbed individual is either a professor of psychology or falsely remembers being one. This is just comedy gold. Endless material here!

  • Well, when Obama flat out makes shit up, Ill be the first one to condemn him. He got the name of the camp wrong, so what? The fact still remains that his uncle/great uncle/whatever was there and did indeed help liberate that camp. Hillary flat out lied about Bosnia (among other “false memories”) and you have the stones to suggest that Im not part of the reality based community? Hysterical. I suppose you will be telling me how Hillary is going to win the nomination next.

  • Someone repeats a false memory multiple times because they believe it is true. It doesn’t matter how often she said it — that doesn’t prove she was lying or not lying. She continued to believe a false memory was true because she never went back and compared her memory against the videotapes that others used to discredit her. None of us routinely checks our own memories against such records. We assume we are remembering correctly. It you assumed from day to day that your memory was inaccurate, it wouldn’t be useful in guiding current action. It isn’t always inaccurate, just often enough to be imperfect.

    In the final analysis, what does it matter whether she landed under sniper fire or not? She was at Tuzla and she did travel to over 100 countries while first lady. Unless you are contesting those verifiable facts, why call her a liar for a trivial mistake? The motive is obvious, exemplified by the imperviousness to explanation. I can’t get you to like Hillary, but perhaps you will understand that even your own memory is subject to distortion, so you will not be so harsh on the people in your personal life. Having a delusion about how memory works causes a fair amount of human misery.

  • Someone on some other blog brought up the point that Obama told this story about his great uncle to help raise awareness of the PTSD problems currently affecting soldiers involved in the Iraq war. With all the troubles people are trying to stir up between him and Jewish voters, her never once brought it up in that context – which is an indication that he chose to use it to help others rather than to help himself.

    Meanwhile, I wonder what Mary is going to have to comment on after next week. I was thinking that I sorta missed her effusions, but that cleared right up when I experienced her twisting of the definition of PTSD, and her use of Ronald Reagan’s lies to justify her heroine’s. What’s even more repellent is her modeling of what she perceives to be bad behavior by Obama supporters and using that as another prop to her arguments that she’s always right and the rest of us perpetually wrong. Mary – get a life!

  • The person who deserves our pity is Chelsea. She has to sit by silently as Hillary Clinton repeats what Chelsea knows to be untruth; if that’s not bad enough, the story involves her mother repeatedly bragging to the world that she’s such a poor parent that she chose to take her own child through sniper fire. Imagine how that makes Chelsea feel.

    I saw a clip of some college student asking Chelsea for her commentary on the events in Tuzla and Chelsea said, with evident embarrassment, “I agree with her [Hillary Clinton],” and then abruptly changed the subject. Her humiliation was palpable. Between Bill Clinton’s sexual misconduct and both Bill and Hillary’s lying, those two have put that kid through absolute hell.

  • Im not calling her a liar for a trivial mistake, Im calling her a liar for making up events out of whole cloth that never happened. I liked Hillary just fine prior to this election cycle. When she found out she was not the annointed candidate and that the electorate might want someone else, she totally lost it. She has waged a very negative campaign and on top of it all, she cannot face the reality that she has 0 chance of the nomination. Beyond all that, she is hurting the fundraising abilities of other Dems in key races across the US. The lying is just icing on the cake as to why I believe she is killing us.

    As for my memory, Its pretty poor on average, but I know damn well that I never was under “sniper fire”.

  • This false memory stuff is amazing. Never have I seen anyone jump to such amazing leaps of faith to justify a lying politician. By this standard, nobody should ever hold politicians accountable for their statements because, hey, it could be a false memory. Im sure the standards on when to apply the false memory solution differ from candidate to candidate though, right?

  • “OMG HIS RELATIVES LIBERATED PRISONERS FROM NAZI DEATH CAMPS!”

    This tells you all you need to know about the sad, sad state of the fRight Wing. All reflex, no reflection.

  • Geez, then they must be really pissed at Ronald Reagan for claiming he was with the troops liberating concentration camps when he never left Culver City. Right? Am I right?

    I said, Am I right?

    Hello?

    Anyone?

    Is this thing on?

  • Roddy, those were false memories. Perfectly acceptable. Why are you picking on the mentally afflicted?

  • It seems:

    Clinton was making stuff up about her personal experiences.

    Obama was repeating a family story he had been told about what others had done 20 years before he was born.

  • There was a teacher who recalled being at a sniper playground shooting when she was actually at a doctor’s appointment (verifiably) on that day. There was another person who recalled years later being part of the group kidnapped at Chowchilla who was verifiably not on the bus. These are described by Ofshe in “Making Monsters,” I believe. There were people debriefed from WWII Camp Erika who witnessed a murder by guards, who 20 years later stated that they had never seen such an event. Another person was reported as beaten by guards (by other witnesses and by his own statement upon liberation) who later stated during the war crimes trial that the beating had happened to someone else.

    Exactly: I don’t want any of these people as my president. I don’t want any of these people taking care of my pet gerbil.

  • Give me a break, Mary.

    Clinton clearly stated (several times) that she landed in Tuzla under sniper fire when, if fact, she and Chelsea and Sinbad(!) calmly strolled around waving and kisssing little girls’ cheeks.

    This is definitely not in the same league as mistating which concentration camp Obama’s uncle helped liberate.

    Also, if this uncle really did sit up in the family attic for months after the war,then he clearly needed help. Whether or not his particular condition would be classified as PTSD is not important. What is important is the point Obama was trying to make that we need to provide more comprehensive support to vets returning from war.

  • Mary,

    With all due respect, I am aware of false memories, although I didn’t know anyone was making this as a serious claim about Hillary’s particular statement.

    And I’m not personally trying to demonize her; I think other statements like the RFK one were completely overblown. I would have voted for her in the general election. My only point was that the situation with Obama’s Auschwitz claim was not analogous.

    And by the way, I was responding to Mary, Mother of Odd, who I assume is different than you?

    -Franklin

  • Exactly: I don’t want any of these people as my president. I don’t want any of these people taking care of my pet gerbil.

    Damn, I never thought of that.

    (pause. thinking frantically.)

    You’re just being sexist! Everyone loves Ronald Reagan and in 28 years, no one has ever said a word about his deteriorating cognitive ability being a problem for his presidency! Not one word!

  • The Republican National Committee issued a statement, arguing that Obama’s minor error “raise[s] questions about his judgment” and his “readiness to lead.” — CB

    I guess that’s why they never supported Mitt Romney, whose judgment was so questionable when it came to memories and stories built around them. Wasn’t there something about marching with Martin Luther King?

    Re the Buchenwald vs Auschwitz mistake: when I was a small child, a group of my mother’s friends often talked about being liberated from the camp, by Americans. If they’d said which camp it was, I must have blanked it out. It’s possible that they never said, because they all knew where they’d been. At that point, I had never even heard about Ravensbrück or Buchenwald or Theresin, so I assumed it was either Oswiecim (Auschwitz) or Majdanek, because those are on Polish territory and those were the ones everyone knew about. It was only once I was in school (about 7th grade) and we got to modern history (and who liberated Auschwitz), that I began to doubt. When I asked them, they said, “oh no, we were in Buchenwald by then”.

    My point is that the stories of concentration camps were pervasive in Poland — our history course included a trip to Auschwitz (where I puked my guts out and was sick, with high fever, for a week afterwards) — and especially in my mother’s circle, which included several survivors. And yet, even I got confused about which horror was which and where. I’m not surprised that an American boy, so much further removed (both in space and in time — he’s 13yrs my junior) from those horrors would get that same detail messed up.

  • As an old person who lived in WW2 Europe, I remember as a child seeing the liberation of all of these camps in our daily newspapers, our parents tried to keep the pictures from us. The people who liberated these camps were indeed all heroes. I don’t think it matters which one an individual liberated, I do know that the one Senator Obama’s relative helped liberate was probably one of the worst, and original prisoner camps, they were known for conducting experiments on prisoners. In addition to the jews I believe they also imprisoned russians and people who were gypsies.In addition to this, I well remember spending many nights in dug-outs, sheltering from the bombs in England from 1939 till after the battle of Britain in 1941 – I might add that it is well known that Prestcott Bush aided and abetted the Nazis.Perhaps he helped finance the bombs that killed so many British.

  • PTSD is the subject I believe Obama was trying to address on Memorial Day. That our troops are not receiving proper care. As usual the Rs are looking only at the tree (the misstated concentration camp name) rather than the forest (the PTSD issue) because they have ignored this issue for too long. It’s the old “Hey look over there because I have something to hide over here” ploy.

    ~~~~~

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24842653/
    Wartime PTSD cases jump to 38,000
    Multiple combat tours heighten symptoms, say experts
    Reuters
    updated 11:43 a.m. PT, Tues., May. 27, 2008
    Newly diagnosed cases of post-traumatic stress disorder among U.S. troops sent to Iraq and Afghanistan surged 46.4 percent in 2007, bringing the five-year total to more than 38,000, according to U.S. military data released on Tuesday.

    ~~~~~~~~
    And is this is the understated number I wonder? More and more we read about the high numbers of suicides of returning soldiers who are not getting treatment. Shameful, absolutely shameful. I’m glad Obama brought up the subject.

    There was a link at the above article to an interesting one about older German WWII survivors who have PTSD, but it manifests itself after they’ve retired. Here’s the link and a sentence from the article:

    ~~~~~~~

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24708346/
    Study: Older Germans, suffering WWII trauma, register high instances of PTSD
    Often the effects of the trauma do not appear until after retirement, when people have been able to take stock of their lives, Braehler said.

    ~~~~~~~~~~
    Which brings me to wondering about the Iraqi survivors of bush’s illegal war. Do we owe it to the Iraqis to help these people, not only with the physical assets – buildings, bridges, etc. – that we’ve destroyed, but also with restoring their mental health? Has this been brought up at all?

    And on and on… wars have consequences too many to name.

  • Let’s see. This is a long-standing family story about how Obama’s great uncle liberated the Buchenwald labor camp in Germany. Apparently told over and over and handed down two generations. Dosen’t it strike anyone as strange that Obama would “misspeak” and recall that he had liberated Auschwitz (in Poland) instead? Of course Auschwitz is much more notorious and grabs everyone’s attention. Particularly Jewish people whose relatives suffered so much agony there. What a coincidence! Just when Obama is trying to win over the Jewish voters and promoting his own style of patriotism. How transparent! How deceitful! And how gullible of his supporters and the media for not seeing it for what it is-pure manipulation. When Hillary does this stuff, they are all over her. Well, as P.T. Barnum said, “there’s a sucker born every minute…” and they all seem to be backnig Obama.

  • @ 30 joel hanes said:
    “the ultimate attack will come about three days before the election”

    The likely timing for an attack on Iran is about the middle of September. The fiction that all is going well with the attack can be sustained for about 2 months. This will give the Bush Criminal Enterprise time enough to determine if it will throw the election to the war candidate McSame. If polling shows that it is not working to throw the election, then the Bushites will know soon enough to prevent the elections from taking place.

    The one thing that Obama has promised that Bush cannot allow to happen is to have the Department of Justice investigate the criminality of the Bush regime.

  • Are you Kidding, are you kidding? The lengths the Bush people have had to twist their logic and memory to continue to support a war criminal is a million times worse than a fellow democrat supporting a good candidate who i believe just ran at a time when a rare impressive candidate also happened to run. As a strong Obama supporter I think it is devisive and perhaps selfish for Hillary to continue this contest. But maybe vetting Obama so all the fake swift boat attacks are used up and seen for the dribble they are is not her intention: but i see some value to it. If she can also prepare the American people for the last minute strategy of an invasion of Iran, finding of planted weapons of mass distruction etc she will also be helping our cause. Perhaps for many of us Hillary appears less noble and inspiring, but that doesn’t mean we have to waste our time sliming a fellow Democrat. She is trying to accomplish a goal she set years ago. Who among us wants to give up our dream? So lets stop attacking our own. It is time to concentrate on the real enemy, Corporate slime who use wars to increase their profit. In other words the only people who actually benefit from a Republican candidate. Congratulate Hillary on a great race and lets concentrate on the issues. Whether Hillary was fired on or not is a non issue when compared to war crimes, destruction of the middle class, destruction of human values, loss of American moral conscience etc.

  • But what you don’t know is that Ohrdruf is a famous Jewish spa. The 89th actually evicted the Jews so they could relax. The 89th was famous, at the time, as a bunch of slackers. The whole thing is a big cover-up.

    OTHO, maybe the republicans were just trying to audition as Obama fact checkers?

  • It’s official: Our country includes some of the dumbest motherfuckers to ever exist.

    The comments from the wingnuts — not to mention several comments on this thread — prove it.

    This will probably be my last post on a political blog for quite a while. I just can’t tolerate any more of Mary’s stupidity, as well as that of those like her — they call themselves liberal, yet are willing to tear apart the liberal part in this country due to their cult-like following of one candidate. They don’t care about policy, but the cult of personality. They don’t care about rules, willing to change them or ignore them when it suits their purpose. And they don’t give a rat’s flea-infested ass about electing a Democratic president, but instead support their candidate or no one.

    If that’s where this country and the Democratic party is headed, I want nothing to do with it.

    See ya.

  • 65. Maross said: Let’s see. This is a long-standing family story about how Obama’s great uncle liberated the Buchenwald labor camp in Germany. Apparently told over and over and handed down two generations. Dosen’t it strike anyone as strange that Obama would “misspeak” and recall that he had liberated Auschwitz (in Poland) instead?

    No, it doesn’t. I think Jews know Buchenwald just as well as Auschwitz, so there is absolutely no reason to lie about that inconsequential detail if you know the truth. Far more likely is that in the course of 50 years of telling and retelling within the family, the name of the concentration camp was either changed or the great-uncle never talked about it in the first place beyond the pictures his brother said he brought home. That’s the way gossip works, details frequently change the more often a story is told.

  • It is no crime to be stupid, but it is a great crime to be uneducated…

    Why don’t you educate yourself on how to look up simple articles in Google and copy/paste the damned URL down instead of screaming admonishments for us to “look it up”.

    Copy = tapping the control key and the “C” key simultaneously on highlighted text.
    Paste = tapping the control key and the “V” key simultaneously wherever you place the little blinking thing called a “cursor”

  • So Mary is now a parody of herself, right?

    Yep.

    And a terrific cautionary tale. I was just having a conversation with a friend and mentioned how some of the Clinton supporters have crossed over into the land of delusion. He thought I was exaggerating how bad it was, so I sent him the link to this thread without comment.

    His reply: “Holy Shit! That ‘Mary’ person is off her fucking rocker!”

    Agreed. Thanks for the help, Mary!

  • Of course Auschwitz is much more notorious and grabs everyone’s attention. Particularly Jewish people whose relatives suffered so much agony there. What a coincidence!

    Yeah, Jews are so superficial when it comes to their knowledge of the Shoah. If it’s not Auschwitz, they just roll their eyes and go “Boooooorrrriiiinnngggg!”

  • I agree with libra and Shalimar…Obama may have never been told the name of the camp or it may have been lost or accidentally changed over the last 63 years. My dad never would talk about his experiences in WWII, but I did know that he had been in Germany, and mom sad he had helped liberate some camps. It wasn’t until after they both died that I found out he had been in the 89th infantry and did a little research. The eyewitness reports of soldiers that liberated Ohrdruf were nearly word for word the few things my dad had said.

    The main point that Obama was making, though, was the need for treatment for veterans. I think that to some extent every war veteran (doesn’t matter which war) suffers from what he has seen and perhaps done. I have lived most of my life with a veteran (first my dad, then my husband) and I know that Viet Nam still affects my husband, and I am sure that the horrors my dad witnessed in WWII haunted him until the day he died.

  • His reply: “Holy Shit! That ‘Mary’ person is off her fucking rocker!”

    My comments are practically identical to those of all other Clinton supporters. Yet, because I’m female and one of the few non-black people around, you single me out for mockery and accusations of mental illness, insults typically used by men against white women. Well, we’re onto you, pal. And we can’t wait for John McCain’s presidency, when you’ll find out what mental illness really means.

  • Mary – Change your name to Alfred or Paul and never let anyone know that you are female…

    And the remarks on your knowledge and level of sanity will still be the same!

  • all’s mary really needs is a ‘liberal’ dose of PREPARATION H on what she considers her brain .. that will end that problem right there

  • “because I’m female and one of the few non-black people around”

    Mary – I’m being picked on because I’m a white woman is not working for Hillary either. Maybe Hillary should have been a black man! Whoops, probably wouldn’t work! Don’t think Bill would have gotten elected if he was married to a black man.

  • Dear Mary…

    When you finally accept the reality that Hillary is not going to get the nomination, please read the following with an open mind.

    Reasons for Hillary Clinton Supporters to Vote for McCain

    1) Health Care

    The McCain Health Care Plan provides a $2500 tax credit for singles and a $5000 tax credit for families. It also removes tax incentives for businesses to provide medical insurance.

    If you believe that telling people to ‘go get your own insurance’ is a better plan than Obama’s plan, you should vote for McCain. If you believe that a family, with or without preexisting medical conditions, can get quality health care insurance for $5000 a year, you should vote for McCain. If you believe that a family, that does not have a tax bill of $5000 to be credited, can get quality medical insurance for even less than $5000, you should vote for McCain.

    2) Social Security

    The McCain Social Security plan is basically a rehash of Bush’s Privatization, while denying that it is privatization. It calls for ‘younger’ workers to pay less Social Security and Medicare taxes and to put that into ‘Private Accounts’.

    If you believe that telling people to ‘go get your own retirement’ is a better plan, you should vote for McCain. If you believe that the American workers would be better off if Bush’s plan had been implemented six years ago, you should vote for McCain.

    3) War

    The McCain plan for Iraq is continuing war. The McCain plan for Iran is “bomb, bomb, bomb…”. The McCain plan is to continuing killing Iraqis and having our military continue dying until we achieve (an undefined) win.

    If you believe that war is peace, you should vote for McCain.

    If you believe that ‘the only good raghead is a dead raghead’, you should vote for McCain.

    If you believe that war should be the first option, rather than diplomacy, you should vote for McCain.

    War has been credited in the past with bringing the U.S. economy out of recessions and depressions. If you believe this could happen again, you should vote for McCain.

    4) The Economy

    McCain’s plan for the economy is basically Bush tax cuts for the wealthy on steroids.

    If you believe that the problem with our economy is that the rich do not have enough money, you should vote for McCain.

    5) Women’s Reproductive Rights

    McCain has proclaimed that his ideas of quality nominees to the Supreme Court are Scalia, Alito, and Roberts.

    If you believe that men should decide on what medical care options are available for women, you should vote for McCain.

    If you want to see Griswold vs. Connecticut (the real goal of the hardcore Right-To-Lifers) overturned, you should vote for McCain.

  • 81.
    On May 28th, 2008 at 3:42 pm, SadOldVet said

    all these exact things that you rightly point out to mary relative to her rapid stupidity if obama becomes the nominee, i.e. the foam out of her mouth that equals voting for McBush, is beyond her ‘brain’ to recognize and accept. it’s to rational for her. preparation h is her only answer and salvation ………..

  • Hey guys… “Mary” and “Mary, Mother of Odd” are *not one and the same person*. The latter is a parody of the former, though I agree that the former is so over the top crazy, she’s almost impossible to spoof.

  • MaryMotherOf God said Obama “savaged Senator Clinton for misremembering a few minor details about her brave trip to Tuzla.”

    Um, first of all, is your name ironic, or do you really believe a virgin woman could give birth to a male child? Well, I guess if you can believe a human body capable of reanimation three days after death, you can believe anything.

    As to your comment, there’s a little difference between mistaking which concentration camp your uncle liberated years before you were born, and misremembering being under sniper fire YOURSELF several years ago.

    I mean, if bullets ARE whizzing over your head, you would certainly remember them, but “remembering” something like that that DIDN’T happen is either delusional or puffing.

    Still, I do think both examples are tempests in a teapot, and actual “issues” should be the primary stuff of reporting and analysis.

  • So sorry, Mother of Odd. I misread your handle and started off on one of my standard rants.

  • Under Serial Exaggerations , See: Bush, George, Cheney, Dick, RNC, GOP.

  • Everybody and his great uncle wants to be a liberator! The truth is that nobody “liberated” Auschwitz or Buchenwald or Ohrdruf; all of these camps had been abandoned and the prisoners were already free. Great Uncle Charlie did not take his life in his hands to shoot it out with heavily armed SS men at Ohrdruf. The camp had been evacuated two days before. A few prisoners escaped from the evacuation march and came back to the town of Ohrdruf where they met soldiers from the 89th division and told them about the camp.

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