Paul says he won’t support GOP nominee

Last month, during a Republican debate, Ron Paul was asked whether he promised to support the GOP nominee next year, no matter who emerges from the primary process. “Not right now I don’t,” Paul said, “not unless they’re willing to end the war and bring our troops home.”

Apparently, in the ensuing weeks, “not right now” has become “no.”

Paul called his Republican presidential rivals, including frontrunner Rudy Giuliani, “neo-conservatives” whom he couldn’t support in the general election should his own bid fail.

“They think we’re supposed to spread our goodness through force,” Paul said. For example, none will pledge not to wage war on Iran, he said. “How could I support something like that?”

Apparently, he can’t. But it means that of the top seven candidates in the Republican field, Paul is the only one who isn’t prepared to support the party’s eventual nominee. It’s not the kind of thing that will go over well within the party, but then again, Paul’s interest in the Republican Party appears nominal — it’s a venue for him to advance his ideas and agenda, not necessarily an opportunity for him to lead the party.

It’s interesting to note the contrast between Paul’s comments and John Edwards’. A couple of weeks ago, Edwards hedged when asked if he would support the eventual Democratic nominee, no matter who it is. When he initially hesitated, it caused a minor stir in Democratic circles — how can Edwards expect to be the party’s nominee if he’s not willing to commit to honoring the party’s nominating process?

No one seems to be saying that about Paul, in large part because no one seems to consider Paul part of the Republican mainstream.

For that matter, it also once again raises the specter of an independent Paul bid.

During an MSNBC interview earlier this month, Norah O’Donnell followed up on this point:

O’DONNELL: Congressman, as you know, most of the other Republicans running for president that you have stood onstage with during the debates, they support a continuation of the war in Iraq. You want to end the war in Iraq. If one of them is awarded the Republican nomination, will you choose a third party? Will you not back that nominee?

PAUL: No, I don’t plan to run in a third party. That’s not my goal. But if we have a candidate that loves the war and loves the neo-con position of promoting our–

At that point in the interview, O’Donnell interrupted, and the interview didn’t return to the subject. But the “I don’t plan to run” language, coupled by this week’s remarks about not supporting the eventual GOP nominee, should continue to raise eyebrows when it comes to Paul’s intentions.

Republicans: Giuliani
Democrats: Clinton
Libertarians: Paul
Greens: Kucinich (time for Nader to retire)
Plutocrats: Bloomberg
Theocrats: Huckabee
Who am I forgetting?

It could be a wild election year.

  • I don’t see a difference between RP’s quote from before compared to the most recent one, it’s just a different phrasing of the same thing, that he wouldn’t be able to support a candidate that disagreed with him on so many areas. RP doesn’t prepare speeches ahead of time to the extent that other candidates do, where you can analyze every nuance to try to figure out what they’re really implying, so a difference between not right now and no is nothing with RP, where with another candidate it would probably signify a change of some sort.

  • Ridiculous RP is the only one that can ensure our freedom, save the world, cure cancer, end oil dependence, fix the deficit, pay off the debt, etc.. comments to follow below. Thanks and drive through.

  • What exactly is or will be main stream Republican ideology today and down stream? The southernization of the Party is creating a new Democratic Party middle with Hilary as the leader. The Democrats are now going to be all about the middle, a haven for Northeast Republicans and Wall Street money to merge with like minded Democrats and Independents. The left may become the odd man out in this game as Hilary provides a secure political base for the military and security apparatus to continue their work, the women rights groups get their judges along with the Environmental growth is ok crowd and the continued development of the credit/debt based finance driven economy is left intact.
    Ron Paul the throw back politician who distrusts anything Federal, hates international warfare under the cover of National security, and no friend of Wall street is not welcomed in either party.

  • Ron Paul vs. The Philosophically Bankrupt

    After reading the name-calling and other non sequiturs from the anti-Ron Paul crowd, I am of the view that their hostility arises less from his opposition to war, or the direction American foreign policy has taken for decades, or any of the other specific programs he has criticized. What troubles them the most is that Paul has a philosophically-principled integrity in what he advocates and that, to challenge him, one must be prepared to deal with him at that higher level.

    But modern political discourse long ago gave up on principles, in favor of the pursuit of power as a sufficient end. There is an intellectual bankruptcy exhibited by writers and speakers on the political “left,” “right,” or “middle.” Competing ideas and values that once engaged the minds of thoughtful men and women have given way to little more than pronouncements on behalf of narrowly-defined political programs; the validity of a proposition no longer depends upon reasoned analysis, but upon the outcome of public opinion polls.

    Ron Paul’s campaign interjects an energized, principled inquiry into the political realm, an undertaking for which men and women with no philosophic center or rigorous minds find themselves woefully ill-prepared.

  • GO RON PAUL! GO RON PAUL! GOD BLESS RON PAUL!
    RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT 2008!

    1st Best Ron Paul Video
    I am delighted, proud and honored to post this…

    2nd Best Ron Paul Video

    “To calm fears, Americans accepted the patriot act and the doctrine of pre-emptive war. We tolerated new laws that allow the government to snoop on us, listen to our phone calls, track our financial dealings, make us strip down at airports and even limited the rights of habeas corpus and trial by jury. Like some dysfunctional episode of the twilight zone, we allowed the summit of our imagination to be linked up with the pit of our fears.” Ron Paul 7/30/07

    “None are more enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.”
    — Goethe

  • I’m glad Dr Paul is consistent and has the integrity to not support someone that doesn’t share his concerns. The two party system is a fraud. It is one party. Both sides to the middle with the illusion of creating division as to never do a thing for the people. Death to the two party fraud I say. It is for criminals to take advantage of the people. Vote Ron Paul in the primaries …Think delegate..become a delegate!!

  • Ludicrous storyline that parrots the mass media line that people can’t make change happen. Ron Paul will support the GOP nominee because he will BE the GOP nominee. And that is going to happen because Ron Paul supporters are going to join the Republican party – identify themselves as Ron Paul Republicans – and change the GOP from the inside. Starting in 2008 – and even more so in coming years.

    Join the GOPrising!

  • Ron Paul is highly unlikely to go the 3rd party route. Plus, Wayne Root is running for the Libertarian nomination and will have millions to spend. Paul would have a tough time beating Root with his legions of loyal Las Vegas Gaming backers.

    No, what’s more likely is that his followers are likely to be dejected and distraught after Giuliani secures the nomination on Feb. 5.

    Sure, they’ll make some noises about “Doing something” for ’08. There may be a convention or two of Ron Paul supporters to decide on a direction for the Ron Paul movement. But it won’t amount to much. They’ll fizzle, just like the Perotistas and Reformers of past.

    What’s funny is that in the end, I bet a great many of them will end up holding their noses and voting for Giuliani to block Hillary. They’ll never admit it now. But mark my words. A good number of the Paul folks will become defacto Giuliani backers after February.

    Eric Dondero, Fmr. Senior Aide
    US Congressman Ron Paul
    1997-2003

  • Eric Dondero:

    I will write my dog’s name on the ballot before I vote for Giuliani. Ron Paul will do well, I have no doubt. Unfortunately, the media is still not reporting important information on him as they should.

  • There is a lot to like about Dr. Paul’s issues web site, http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/: honoring the Bill of Rights, individual liberty, a quick end to the war in Iraq, the end of global empire building, stopping the destruction of the dollar by the Federal Reserve, returning the dollar to the gold standard, and more.

    However, the destruction caused by criminal opportunism does not appear on the issues site. The founding fathers would not have designed Congress if they did not realize there is a place for law and regulation. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    To counteract corrupted power from overwhelming the Republic, the founders provided for ordinary people through their elected representatives to create legislation, including laws that regulate and provide penalties for the practice of criminal greed. I can attest that in my line of work, “States Rights” is a poor answer for business regulation, because it requires national businesses to play by at least 50 different sets of rules.

    His argument that Enron was not prevented despite regulation by the SEC does not point out what it is widely known in the finance industry, that penalties for breaking the SEC laws are selectively enforced, with extreme prejudice against minor players, while the biggest players steal billions without penalty.

    It appears that Dr. Paul would limit Federal law enforcement and veto any legislation giving new enforcement authority to the Federal government, once again leaving it up the free market to regulate itself, creating an ideal environment for the cheaters, the greedy, and the unscrupulous to maintain dominance in the market place.

    We have seen how well Federal deregulation of the food, drug, energy, banking, media, etc. industries has worked out in the last several years. It’s worked great for CEOs and insiders. It’s been terrible for workers and consumers.

  • Even if Ron Paul had the majority of supporters, he wouldnt win. Why? I love Ron Paul. I havent been this involved in a Presidential election in my life. This is my 5th time I’ve been eligible to vote & never remember a candidate that so closely relayed the message of what I felt. But Why wont he get elected? Electronic voting machines. EVP are easily corrupted, & with no paper print out to validate your vote……..its easy, very easy to program a vote for Paul tallies into a EVP vote for Giulliani. Easy. Bush won this way, & things arent changing for the better. Along with your stripped civil rights, habeus corpus, They are also stripping your vote, secretly of course, you will leave the election booth thinking you really made your vote………then at home later in the evening, your candidate will lose. The winner is already known to the powers that be. The winner is the most corrupt candidate that is already bought & paid for. AmeriKa is no longer, our poiticians have sold us out. Soon we shall be the North American Union, Mexico, USA & Canada………right in line with the NEW World Orders plans.

  • I think Ron Paul running as a third party candidate would be really bad for the Democrats. It would split the anti-war vote. I can’t imagin Paul getting much GOP support as a third party candidate

  • After reading the name-calling and other non sequiturs from the anti-Ron Paul crowd, I am of the view that their hostility arises less from his opposition to war, or the direction American foreign policy has taken for decades, or any of the other specific programs he has criticized. What troubles them the most is that Paul has a philosophically-principled integrity in what he advocates and that, to challenge him, one must be prepared to deal with him at that higher level.

    No, it’s that his principles are simply insufficient to deal with a complex modern world.

    Libertarianism is an abstractly admirable and appealing political philosophy that simply doesn’t work for a society in which most people aren’t equipped to take full advantage of the freedoms–and handle the daunting insecurities–that it would unleash. Like it or not, government is the only institution of collective democratic will large and powerful enough to take on the great challenges of our time–from infrastructure to national defense to stewardship of the Earth to running the courts to, yes, educating our young for the modern economy.

    Do we do any of those things as well and as efficiently as we should? NO–and from this truth arises the understandable frustration, if not outright rage, of the libertarians. But the answer isn’t to dismantle government; it’s to reclaim the public sector from those who use it for private enrichment, to reinvigorate our democracy so that government is *our* instrument, not theirs.

    It’s for this reason that I’m a Democrat–however reluctantly at times–and that I support Barack Obama in this election.

    With respect to Congressman Paul’s former aide, I devoutly hope that Paul’s followers don’t choose to support the candidate who is most inimical to their sincere beliefs: Rudy Giuliani. If this despotic nut is elected, you’ll see government by and for the special interests, endless war, and repression at home–the libertarian nightmare, I would think.

    We need a liberalism that better enables freedom–that helps people toward self-sufficiency, that gets them to the point where they need less government. If libertarian-minded Americans join progressives in this effort, we can all get closer to our goals.

  • Really, how much difference is there between Giuliani and Clinton? Both have cheated/cheating spouses, both supported gun control, both support bigger government by raising taxes.

    Ron Paul is a real choice, and he can win the election if he gets the Republican nomination.

    Ron Paul cured my apathy!

  • The reason Ron Paul has support is there is very little difference between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. Almost no difference between Rudy Giuliani and Hillary Clinton. No Ron Paul supporter would ever vote for Giuliani, that they would is nothing more than wishful thinking. The only difference is Democrats like Hillary spend money and tax to pay for it. Republicans like Rudy spend money and add to the debt making the next generation pay for it. So Hillary taxes now, Rudy taxes later. Ron Paul supporters want change, real change. Stop the running debt, stop the sliding dollar, end the corporate welfare that both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party are corrupted by. Only Ron Paul has stood up in Congress and stood for fiscal responsibility, the others are pretenders. If Ron Paul is not on the ballot, his supporters will write him in or stay home. They are not going to vote for big spenders from either party.

  • 1. On November 24th, 2007 at 11:23 am, OkieFromMuskogee said:

    —-

    I always figured Gravel would end up somewhere on a Green ticket, but you may be right about Dennis doing it instead, especially since his wife has started weighing in on his future possibilities.

  • Ah the Ron Paul effect. Mention his name and the number of responses quadruple, all chiming essentially the same love fest. This roboto response really gives me the creeps.

  • On November 24th, 2007 at 2:54 pm, Jen Flowers said:
    Ah the Ron Paul effect. Mention his name and the number of responses quadruple, all chiming essentially the same love fest. This roboto response really gives me the creeps.

    What really gives you the creeps is the support he has and your candidate lacks. Wherever you go you see signs for the “Ron Paul Revolution” and Ron Paul bumper stickers. That must really creep you out to see that Ron Paul has real support. I am sure the moving dollar tally on his web site gives you the creeps. Check it out it keeps going up. http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

  • Bo @ 22 said:

    What really gives you the creeps is the support he has and your candidate lacks. Wherever you go you see signs for the “Ron Paul Revolution” and Ron Paul bumper stickers. That must really creep you out to see that Ron Paul has real support. I am sure the moving dollar tally on his web site gives you the creeps.

    Signs and bumperstickers? Haven’t seen one in my city. It’s heavily Republican here. I see more “W ’04” stickers than anything else, followed by anti-W and then Kucinch and Obama stickers.

    The only place I see support fer Paul is on progressive blogs. And I see a lot of the same names postin’ comments in support of Paul. And I never- NEVER- see the Paul supporters postin’ comments on threads where Paul hasn’t already been mentioned.

  • Scary Ron Paul will not magically change the way the government functions overnight. As scary as he may be to some people their still has to be a consensus for him to implement any of his plans for limiting the government. The scariest thing to his opponents is the fact he empowers Americans and cures the disease of apathy. Apathy the disease and Dr. Paul has the cure. His message questions the status quo, he makes you reevaluate what government is and what we as a people should expect from our government. His message is a freedom message, and it is ringing loud and clear, and it will continue to ring long into the future. Ron Paul’s re-invegeration of American Constitutional debate and government limits will continue to build a consensus of disaffected Democrats and Republicans that agree with his message. Oh yeah, Ron Paul kicks ass.

  • neil wilson @ 16 said:

    I think Ron Paul running as a third party candidate would be really bad for the Democrats. It would split the anti-war vote. I can’t imagin Paul getting much GOP support as a third party candidate

    I disagree. Dems already have at least two anti-war candidates in Kucinich and Gravel. I don’t think a Clinton nomination would see the Dems losin’ a whole bunch of support from those who normally vote the Democratic slate. The war isn’t the only issue in the election.

    I don’t think Paul will peel voters from either of the two major parties. What he seems to be doin’ is motivatin’ a bunch of guys to get out of their moms’ basements.

  • Excuse me. I said @ 25:

    What he seems to be doin’ is motivatin’ a bunch of guys to get out of their moms’ basements.

    What I meant to say is:

    What he seems to be doin’ is motivatin’ a bunch of guys to get out of their moms’ basements on election day.

  • Wherever you go you see signs for the “Ron Paul Revolution” and Ron Paul bumper stickers. That must really creep you out to see that Ron Paul has real support.

    Actually, this week I saw a “Fred Thompson 2008” bumper sticker. THAT creeped me out. How can you support Thompson enough to put a bumper sticker on your car yet? Those things are hard to get off – you should be SURE that you’re not going to be embarrassed by it in a year. (You should give almost as much thought to your bumper stickers as your tattoos – make sure that you’re SURE that a year from now you aren’t going to be wanting to take a razor blade to it in anger…)

    Ron Paul just reminds me of so many other “cult of personality” candidates that have come and gone in my lifetime. He reminds me most of Ross Perot in ’92 actually. Especially when I see things like “Ron Paul cured my apathy” or “Ron Paul has real support” and other phrases that I remember hearing through that ’92 campaign. Until Perot exploded in a fit of crazy. Good times, good times. Ron Paul looks more disciplined, though – I doubt he’ll go Ross Perot crazy anytime before the primaries are done, but one never knows….

    (Full disclosure – I was a Ross Perot supporter in my misspent youth. It taught me many, many lessons – including that you can never, ever be too cynical about ANY candidates running for any office. And that Saviour politics are always a terrible way to go about finding a candidate for any office, but ESPECIALLY Presidents.)

  • Sorry to be the bearer of bad news (not really; I’m ecstatic to bring you Paulopholes this news), but Gone Paul just fired a broadside salvo at himself—at point-blank range—by out-&-out refusing to back whoever wins the GOP nomination. Most Republicans wouldn’t have voted for him anyway in the primaries, and that’s where he’ll have to make his version of Custer”s Last Stand.

    Paul’s “Little Big Horn” is less than 90 days out now. You Paulophiles better stop throwing your money away on the dying horse, and start worrying about where you’re going to get the cash to pay back taxes, penalties, and interest fees on all those gold-backed VonHaus “dollars” once the IRS gets through digging through his company computers.

    By the way, I haven’t seen any of those RP signs and bumper stickers, either; I have, however, seen a few “Ron Paul” flyers.

    Oh…wait, I’m sorry—those were targets for the BB rifle I’m giving my son for Yule this year….

  • I’ve seen perhaps two cars with Paul bumper stickers, but by far the most common message on bumpers around here is still “W” or “Bush/Cheney” or something else Republican left over from an earlier election cycle. I haven’t seen a single sticker for any other Republican candidate. I guess that means that Paul is winning the Repblican Bumper Poll around here.

    I’ve seen a few (very few) “Hillary” stickers. Nothing for other Democrats.

    I’m calling my Bumper Poll inconclusive. But there’s no way all those “W”‘ supporters are voting for Paul. They want to stay in Iraq.

  • The curious thing about RP is that no one really heard of him before a few months ago. All of a sudden he makes a big splash as a vocal anti-war Republican. He’s never really had any high profile legislation. He didn’t put a big fight while Bush was starting his war of choice. He didn’t do anything when Bush pissed all over the Constitution. Not a peep when Bush outed a CIA agent. Nary a sound when Bush institutionalized torture. Lots of crickets when Bush refused to divulge just how much spying on the American public he was doing. I don’t recall seeing him standing next to John Murtha and calling for a end to the war 2 years ago. Now all of a sudden he’s our savior? Oh, I forgot, the Republicons and the MSM are scared of his machismo and brilliant intellect and have been ignoring him. He’s probably been doing that all along.

    The problem for RP is that to get wingers to vote for him he would have to convince them that they have been wrong all along (about W and his war.) Like Bush, they’ll never admit that. Ever. 20 years from now those wingers will sit around and bemoan the next POTUS for losing Iraq. And say it with a straight face. We’re in a perpetual “just give us another 6 months and everything will change” state.

  • Playing like the profit media wants you to play. Keep it competitive to keep it interesting to sell more media time…Just pathetic.

    ELECTABILITY IS NOT AN ISSUE IN THIS ELECTION. Whoever wins the democratic primary will be the next president. After the horrors of Bush and with the current GOP field(except Paul) being such a joke, whoever wins the democratic primary will be the next president. Certainly not another worse neocon or a phony-baloney plastic suit, and most certainly a democrat. Which makes most of the discussion above just so much gibberish.

  • The fact that people vote for a republican or democrat is sheer idiocy. You should vote for the person you feel will be the best president based on their understanding of the issues. The most important issue for me is the war that is bankrupting the poor and middle class American. The majority of the military is supporting Dr. Ron Paul. They are the ones fighting this war without proper armor and coming home with debilitating injuries or mental trauma. The VA hospitals are horrible and some of the military are on food stamps while Halliburton, Blackwater, and all the other contractors are raping Americans with the contracts they were given. I support the military in their efforts to be home with their families and not building an empire for which the average American will not profit. In my opinion, to be President of the USA, you should have served in the military since you will be Commander in Chief. Dr. Paul is one of two candidates that actually served in the military, he understands war, and was prescient enough to vote against it.

  • Ron Paul said it himself: how could he vote against the principles he has devoted the last 30 years of his life to?

    If party is more important than principles, we live in a sad world.

  • GDS (well, to any of you Paulists in general) –

    Answer me this, please: If Paul is against the war in Iraq because it’s unconstitutional, why hasn’t he sued to remove us from it? He must have an awfully compellin’ reason fer his inactivity on that front.

  • ***John B and Bo*** you both show your ignorance by thinking there is no difference between Guiliani and Clinton. That’s just stupid. And what does RP plan to do about the trillions we already owe…no taxes now right so how does he pay for it?
    dajafi***comment 17**has the right perspective. Corporations are too large now that only a big government can deal with them. Our nation’s infrastructure alone is massive and calls for a more efficient government that requires our collective involvement to provide for our constitutional rights. Not privatization, not ignoring the corporate checks and balances by government to provide protections to consumers. With Paul only about 50% of him is legitimate to the issues, the rest is unrealistic, policies that would fail miserably to achieve the desired effect. Elections always mean we have to settle for less. There are as many people standing in the way of progress as are actually solving our problems. Paul is only half right. The republicans put us trillions in debt…once again the dems must bail us out.

  • Doooonnnnndeeeerrrroooooo!!!!
    You swine. You vulgar little maggot. You worthless bag of filth. As we say in Texas, I’ll bet you couldn’t pour piss out of a boot with instructions on the heel. You are a canker. A sore that won’t go away. I would rather kiss a lawyer than be seen with you. You’re a putrescent mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little worm deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. You are a jerk, a cad, a weasel. Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a stench, a revulsion, a big suck on a sour lemon. You are a bleating foal, a curdled staggering mutant dwarf smeared richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying your alleged birth into this world. An insensate, blinking calf, meaningful to nobody, abandoned by the puke-drooling, giggling beasts who sired you and then killed themselves in recognition of what they had done. I will never get over the embarrassment of belonging to the same species as you. You are a monster, an ogre, a malformity. I barf at the very thought of you. You have all the appeal of a paper cut. Lepers avoid you. You are vile, worthless, less than nothing. You are a weed, a fungus, the dregs of this earth. And did I mention you smell? Try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting to impress us with your insight. The evidence that you are a nincompoop will still be available to readers, but they will be able to access it more rapidly. You snail-skulled little rabbit. Would that a hawk pick you up, drive its beak into your brain, and upon finding it rancid set you loose to fly briefly before spattering the ocean rocks with the frothy pink shame of your ignoble blood. May you choke on the queasy, convulsing nausea of your own trite, foolish beliefs. You are weary, stale, flat and unprofitable. You are grimy, squalid, nasty and profane. You are foul and disgusting. You’re a fool, an ignoramus. Monkeys look down on you. Even sheep won’t have sex with you. You are unreservedly pathetic, starved for attention, and lost in a land that reality forgot. And what meaning do you expect your delusionally self-important statements of unknowing, inexperienced opinion to have with us? What fantasy do you hold that you would believe that your tiny-fisted tantrums would have more weight than that of a leprous desert rat, spinning rabidly in a circle, waiting for the bite of the snake? You are a waste of flesh. You have no rhythm. You are ridiculous and obnoxious. You are the moral equivalent of a leech. You are a living emptiness, a meaningless void. You are sour and senile. You are a disease, you puerile, one-handed, slack-jawed, drooling, meatslapper. On a good day you’re a half-wit. You remind me of drool. You are deficient in all that lends character. You have the personality of wallpaper. You are dank and filthy. You are asinine and benighted. You are the source of all unpleasantness. You spread misery and sorrow wherever you go. You smarmy lagerlout git. You bloody woofter sod. Bugger off, pillock. You grotty wanking oik artless base-court apple-john. You clouted boggish foot-licking twit. You dankish clack-dish plonker. You gormless crook-pated tosser. You churlish boil-brained clotpole ponce. You cockered bum-bailey poofter. You craven dewberry pisshead cockup pratting naff. You gob-kissing gleeking flap-mouthed coxcomb. You dread-bolted fobbing beef-witted clapper-clawed flirt-gill. You are a fiend and a coward, and you have bad breath. You are degenerate, noxious and depraved. I feel debased just for knowing you exist. I despise everything about you, and I wish you would go away. I cannot believe how incredibly stupid you are. I mean rock-hard stupid. Dehydrated-rock-hard stupid. Stupid, so stupid it goes way beyond the stupid we know into a whole different dimension of stupid. You are trans-stupid stupid. Meta-stupid. Stupid collapsed on itself so far that even the neutrons have collapsed. Stupid gotten so dense that no intellect can escape. Singularity stupid. Blazing hot mid-day sun on Mercury stupid. You emit more stupid in one second than our entire galaxy emits in a year. Quasar stupid. Your writing has to be a troll. Nothing in our universe can really be this stupid. Perhaps this is some primordial fragment from the original big bang of stupid. Some pure essence of a stupid so uncontaminated by anything else as to be beyond the laws of physics that we know. I’m sorry. I can’t go on. This is an epiphany of stupid for me. After this, you may not hear from me again for a while. I don’t have enough strength left to deride your ignorant questions and half baked comments about unimportant trivia, or any of the rest of this drivel. Duh. The only thing worse than your logic is your manners. I have snipped away most of what you wrote, because, well… it didn’t really say anything. Your attempt at constructing a creative post was pitiful. I mean, really, stringing together a bunch of insults among a load of babbling was hardly effective… Maybe later in life, after you have learned to read, write, spell, and count, you will have more success. True, these are rudimentary skills that many of us “normal” people take for granted that everyone has an easy time of mastering. But we sometimes forget that there are “challenged” persons in this world who find these things more difficult. If I had known, that this was your case then I would have never read your post. It just wouldn’t have been “right”. Sort of like parking in a handicap space. I wish you the best of luck in the emotional, and social struggles that seem to be placing such a demand on you.

    RON PAUL is raising MMMMMMMMMMIiiilllllllliioonnssss. Mmmmmmiiiilllliioonnnnnssss and mmmmmmmiillllliioonnnnnsss of dolllllaaaarrrsss. Bwah ha ha ha ha. Now at last the time has come to unleash the the r3VOLution. Arise my fellow libertarian minions! Arise! No longer must we hide our true selves as we walk among the people. Show yourselves, stand up and be counted! For now at last our time has come, and we shall rule the earth!!

    And what is the first thing we shall do once we seize the reigns of power? I will tell you. We will give Dondero a wedgie.

  • I actually sort of liked Ron Paul at the beginning of the campaign, thought he was refreshing. He asked some questions which needed to be asked about Iraq. His supporters, though, have convinced me to be very scared of him. People this rabid do not support sane candidates.

  • Looks like Puck has seen the political writings on the wall—the ones that spell “epitaph.”

    *evil laughter ensues….

  • Why sane, mature Americans should not vote for Paul, Exh. A: Puck at 36.
    Moms and Dads, please monitor how much time your kids spend playing Halo alone in your darkened basement.

    GDS at 32, that is stunning naivete. When Ventura was elected Gov of Minn, neither party in the legislature would work with him. When Carter brought all outsiders to the White House and said he would not play partisan, insider games, neither party in Congress would work with him. Reality: the next President will operate in a 2-party system, like it or not, for better or worse. Given that reality, for a voter to ignore the party ramifications of their vote is really self-defeating. But you go right ahead – that makes it easier for the rest of us to marginalize the nutjobs (although I had hoped after we got rid of Ralph Reed, Ralph Nader and Lyndon LaRouche perhaps we could take a short rest. No such luck.)

  • Edwards did not hedge on the question of whether he would support the eventual nominee. He was asked whether he would support Hillary Clinton, one of the current candidates. He said, rightly, that he was not prepared to address that yet. He’s still running against her and thinks he’s better and he doesn’t believe that she should be the nominee. He thinks he should be. Had he been asked the broader question, he’d likely have given a straight yes, as he did at the ensuing debate. Has Hillary been asked if she’d support Edwards or Obama? It’s a silly question to point out one candidate and reinforces the myth of inevitability on HRC, and shouldn’t be asked at this juncture. Nor should it be mischaracterized. Edwards was asked about one candidate, not his party. Ron Paul was talking about the GOP.

  • “39. On November 24th, 2007 at 6:32 pm, zeitgeist said… ”
    (you can read it for yourselves)

    Thank God the Founding Fathers did NOT share your beliefs… or America would still be a British Colony. You are neither wise, mature, nor correct. You’re just Defeatist. And we’re going to BEAT you. Get over it.

  • Quantumystic @ 42 said:

    “Thank God the Founding Fathers did NOT share your beliefs… or America would still be a British Colony.”

    Would you care to expound on that? Please compare & contrast zeitgeist’s beliefs with those of the founding fathers.

  • Ron Paul is much like a spoiled little child. They didn’t declare the war as he wanted and regardless of successes or improvements, he will oppose it to the bitter end because of that.

    When he loses the GOP nomination, as he assuredly will, I only hope he makes a third party run. Let him be the Ross Perot to the Democrats as he draws anti-war moonbat votes away from the Democrats.

  • *******************************************************************************************

    The GOP fields the strongest candidates on the war on terror bar none. If Paul is of the opinion that the Dems offer a better solution, then he should keep it to himself because he is in effect alienating those of us who had just began rooting for him.

    However his uncompromising attack on the Chinese war machine and their eroding effect on our middle class remains unchallanged and is a big driving force for most of us who feel the economy is a major priority in the forth coming elections.

    Try the new electronic voting machine to see how the candidates fair on the issues:

    http://www.capitalpoliticking.com

  • *******************************************************************************************

    The GOP fields the strongest candidates on the war on terror bar none. If Paul is of the opinion that the Dems offer a better solution, then he should keep it to himself because he is in effect alienating those of us who had just began rooting for him.

    However his uncompromising attack on the Chinese war machine and their eroding effect on our middle class remains unchallanged and is a big driving force for most of us who feel the economy is a major priority in the forth coming elections.

    Try the new electronic voting machine to see how the candidates fair on the issues:

    http://www.capitalpoliticking.com

  • LewWaters @ 44 said:

    When he loses the GOP nomination, as he assuredly will, I only hope he makes a third party run. Let him be the Ross Perot to the Democrats as he draws anti-war moonbat votes away from the Democrats.

    Yeah, uhm, wish away there, Lew. He’s gonna peel away as many Dems as yer fave, Duncan Hunter (and Freddie Thompson, the laziest candidate ever placed second on yer poll- beautiful!). Were it not fer the ban on Paul supporters at so many of the right-wing blogs, Paul might be pickin’ up more steam. Try as they might to convince us that they were once- even very recently- liberals, those of us in the prog-o-sphere see Paulists fer the normally-politically-dispossessed survivalists and immature first-time voters that they are. They and their candidate hold no appeal to those of us who are lookin’ at the possibilities of a single-payer healthcare system. Paul’s further appeal is bein’ made to Goldwater Republicans. How many of those are denizens of TCR or Crooks & Liars?

  • Goldwater Republicans?

    Andy—are you really trying to convince people that wRONg Paul is appealing to Goldwater Republicans? I thought most of them were dead.

    Wait—there’s a punch-line in there somewhere—right? Something about the dead-end candidate, representing a dead movement, seeking votes from dead people. I guess we can start calling wRONg Paul’s supporters “paul bearers….”

  • Any “moderate” democrat or republican who votes for Ron Paul because he will end the war is a rube.

    Ron Paul is a right-wing, theologically time-warped, social conservative. Check out his website. I don’t care if he wants to end the war now. If he really believed in “medical privacy” and “health freedom” as he proclaims on his election site, he would not deny a woman the right to an abortion. Roe v. Wade was a legal case decided on the issue of PRIVACY. He proclaims “I will negate Roe v Wade by removing the ability of Federal Courts to interfere with state legislation to protect life.” That would in effect, make abortions illegal again in most states.

    “The right of an innocent, unborn child to life is at the heart of the American ideals of liberty. My professional and legislative record demonstrates my strong commitment to this pro-life principle.” Well, fuck me and my gender. And fuck any young man who doesn’t want to be a father at 16.

    AND, at the first republican debate, he was one of two candidates, (the other being Huckabee) to raise his hand to proclaim his belief in creationism. For chrissakes, he’s a medical doctor, educated in science and he believes Fred Flintstone walked dino the dinosaur? Guess, what? People who believe this also believe homosexuals are sub-human, sick pervs. They don’t deserve any special rights such as the right not to have the shit kicked outta them for being queer.

    Ron Paul? I’d rather vote for Barney Rubble.

  • I completely reject the analysis in #6. I dislike Ron Paul because I dislike most of his ideas. I do like his anti-war stance, but I like the federal government, when it works as it can and it should. I think the federal government is the best place for environmental laws and civil rights laws. I like affirmative action, I like women having the right to choose, and I’d like gays to be able to marry the people they fall in love with, just like the rest of us. Unlike Paul, I think we still need the Voting Rights and Civil Rights Acts. Paul is against direct intervention in humanitarian missions such as Darfur and Rwanda, whereas when we can do some good, I favor intervention (done properly, with careful planning and clear goals, rather than badly, with war-profits for buddies being the prime directive). Paul opposes the International Criminal Court, the UN, the N. American Union, whereas I favor them as useful constraints on unbridled national sovereignity.

    I agree with him on the ineffectiveness of drug prohibition laws. I also agree with him that immigrants should be treated consistently under a coherent legal system, but I disagree that the answer includes a big fence. We need to actively work to improve conditions in Mexico, the way the EEC works to improve conditions in its (at least initially) poorer members.

    I disagree greatly with his ideas on taxes. Governments should raise taxes from everyone, with rich people and companies paying proportionally more, and the money should be spent wisely on defense, social services, and things that count as investment for the future, such as public health, infrastructure, basic research, and education. No one but the federal government can do those sorts of things fairly and efficiently and in large scale: I think the contributions made by the TVA and building the interstate road system show what concerted government action can achieve in improving the economy in poor regions. Therefore I think his ideas on abolishing the income tax, the Internal Revenue Service, most Cabinet departments and the Federal Reserve are crazy. His idea of a national sales tax is far too regressive.

  • Funny, many here want the government to do what it is not authorized to do. Many fear having to do it on their own. For that, I can understand your fear. It was the early versions of Americans that tasted freedom. To do what they wanted when they wanted with the caveat that they must not infringe upon the rights of others to do the same. You fear that, it is written in your words. What you refuse to see is that with the advent of the internet, the corporations that do not provide a quality product will fall from existence. Everything else that Ron Paul is mindful of offers valid operating mechanisms for us to realize true freedom. We Americans should expect that Freedom is ours, yet you hide, knowingly selecting someone who is promising you a different flavor of “Business as Usual”. You will not look “wrong” in the face and tell it – “You are wrong.” I will support Ron Paul to the best of my ability and if he does not win, I will seriously consider dropping out from this world as it is and becoming an unknown. I will become someone that only affects the limited sphere in which he operates within. I will not harm as that is not in my creed. I will protect, but that will become increasingly hard with the technology in place here. I will remove my family to a remote area and try to live my life seeking what little freedom that I can generate on my own, for freedom will not be found here. No other candidate will dismantle what has been built, by not voting for Ron Paul, you will be acquiescing to your own slavery. I bid you well, may your chains rest lightly upon you… May God Bless those that honor Him.

  • So many lies and distortions above against the good man Dr. Paul.

    He is the most principled politician that I have ever seen. All of the things that liberals say he is too radical on, are things the State government should be doing anyway, not the federal government. No one can win an argument with his positions. That’s why the opposition must rely on ad hominem attacks as you see in many posts above.

    True conservatives that realize the war in Iraq has not made us safer, and continues to make us less safe support this man. Judge Andrew Napolitano is one of these men and there are many more like him.

    Yes, a small minority of his supporters are overzealous. But that is no reason not to vote for someone. It’s just a cop out to avoid the real issues, which is the only thing the opposition can do.

  • Unfortunately it took segregationist Governor Wallace to reveal the truth that “there’s not a dime’s worth of difference between” Republicans and Democrats. The Democrats willingly went along with the War in Iraq, suspension of Habeas Corpus, detaining protesters, banning books like “America Deceived’ from Amazon, stealing private lands (Kelo decision), warrant-less wiretapping and refusing to investigate 9/11 properly. They are both guilty of treason.
    Support Dr. Ron Paul and save this great nation.
    Last link (before Google Books bends to gov’t Will and drops the title):
    http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0

  • Maybe Ron Paul’s candidacy is in fact an opportunity to lead his party.
    You can’t assume that Paul is running just to advance ideas.
    The voters will decide this when the primaries begin.

  • Yard sales for Ron Paul…spread the message and sell what you don’t need. Ebay is your friend too, include fliers or DVD’s with info on Paul on everything you sell.

  • All this shows is that Ron Paul is a man of principle and just back a party. I think it is sad for the others to say yes and then turn around and criticize each other’s positions on different the issues.

  • With Paul refusing to support the GOP candidate if he loses the nomination fight, and Bloomberg being coy about running, it seems there is a distinct possibility for a four-way race next year. If Guiliani, Clinton, Paul, and Bloomberg all square off against each other it may just throw all the Rethug plans for stealing the election into the toilet, and put the decision into the hands of the House of Representatives. Now that would be drama.

    Billionaire Bloomberg is probably the best of that lot as an ex-Democrat, ex-faux-Rethug, recently registered independent. His administrative skills in NYC have been admirable, although the school system is still a disaster. But wouldn’t it be interesting if three of the presidential candidates all hailed from NY? Two ex–mayors, and one senator. Godless Sodom on the Atlantic. How delicious.

  • I stand corrected on my post regarding Paul’s support at the first republican debate for creationism. I was in error. I certainly do not want to post things that are untrue. There’s enough of that. Andrew is correct, therefore I do not know what Paul believes regarding intelligent design.

    However, I do know his belief in “individual privacy rights” and “health freedom” is hypocritical if he works to overturn Roe v. Wade. It totally dumps his whole ideological belief system in the crapper. No one has explained how Paul’s work to end safe, legal abortions, jives with his individual privacy stance.

    Is economic freedom more important to Paul supporters than the individual medical freedom of women? And believe me, this is not just a “woman’s” issue. More men should be standing up for woman’s right to choose. If couples now get “pregnant”, they also get “abortions” together too.

    Sorry about my incorrect post.

  • Ron Paul has some good ideas and some that are a little extreme but he seems like someone that actually believes what he says. Unlike Rudy who tells us the same kind of crap W has been spewing for 7 years. It would seem like Ron would pose a far lower threat to our country and our freedom than Rudy who seems to want to mimic W using fear as an election tool.

    I think that we face a real threat with the out-sourcing of our military to corporate interests. Who would have believed that our country could be pillaged by the neocons as they raid our treasury to finance a corporate war over oil? Blackwater has a huge base in North Carolina and are attempting to open another one in California. This is, according to their web page, in addition to facilities world wide. How can we allow corporate armies to be formed in our country with the help of our government? This army would not be growing exponentially without W’s war in Iraq where our tax dollars are filling their coffers. This administration is eroding many of our constitutional rights using fear and we need someone to put a stop to it.

    I am a Democrat and I feel we face a myriad of problems that are very serious but none pose the threat we face of losing our liberty. We are being bled dry by the oil companies and at the same time pouring money down an Iraqi black hole. If we are going to fight a war then it is truly criminal to not pay for it. We are in effect stealing from future generations with the debt we are incurring. It would seem treasonous to knowingly finance a war of choice with no plan to pay for it. I really do not care where we get the funds from be it taxes on the rich or on the oil companies, but I am looking for someone who will end this stupid immoral war and then pay for it. If Ron Paul can and will do this I will be glad to vote for him. The treasonous behavior of our present administration has to stop…

  • To: Pissant – Ron Paul is personally against abortion. He is, however, more concerned with the abrogation of States Rights in the form of the Federal Government dictating to the States. Yes, he will overturn Roe -v- Wade, not to end abortion for the entire united states, only because that decision is outside of the scope of the Constitution. The states may rule and legislate individually for the right to a safe abortion or not, in this, Dr. Paul will not interfere.

  • I need one of those countdown clocks—but instead of “days until Bu$h is out of office, it has to be “days until the GOP nomination is beyond wRonG Paul’s reach.

    Oh, wait…the countdown has already reached zero—now hasn’t it?

    *evil laughter ensues, as wRonG Paul addicts explode en masse….

  • I think Ron Paul will campaign against whichever candidate he thinks is worse. I think he will actively campaign against Giuliani and possibly throw a few percent to Hillary and get her elected. I think he might be able to make a deal with the others to keep out, but not The Ghoul.
    I think he SHOULD get a talk radio show and go against Rush, Beck, and Hannity.
    He is so much smarter than Beck and Hannity, and much more honest than Rush.

  • I am voting Paul in the primary. I have convinced all of my friends and relatives to vote for him as well. If he doesn’t win the nomination, since there is no one else I prefer to violate my Rights, I will write him in. Paul is the only candidate who understands that our Rights are violated by the taxing mechanism. Once this is in place, our foreign expenditures will always equal of domestic expenditures. It is quixotic to believe that you can shrink one without shrinking the other, so Ron Paul is advocating the only possible path to limiting the size and scope of the Federal Government – shinking both.

    If there were a second best choice, it might be different, but I don’t see a big difference between authoritarian Dems who wish to bring us the goodness of Big Government at home while maintaining our extravagent foreign policy, and authoritarian Reps who wish to export the goodness of Big Government abroad while maintaining our extravagent domestic policy.

  • Neither will I – in fact.. im writing him in in 2008 whether he is a candidate at that time or not.

    When you choose between two evils you end up choosing evil.
    No thanks – not for me anymore.

  • Now what do you think Republicans in his Congressional District and Texas-wide would think of Congressman Ron Paul if he actively campaigned against the GOP Nominee for President?

    Will he also campaign against other GOPers, maybe fellow Congressman in nearby Districts, locally elected Republicans, GOP State Legislators? After all, Ron Paul is the only Republican elected official in the Houston area opposed to Bush and the War in Iraq.

  • Yadda yadda yadda. Is you does or is you doesn’t support american genocide in the Middle East? Ron Paul has a heart AND a mind. He delivers babys for heaven sakes! Note: israel is not a ”country”, it is an Aparthate prefecture of wall street. Soviet Thug Jews migrated from Moscow to Jerusalem to Washington. Now they are “neocons”. Republicans and democrats follow Likud/AIPAC/neocon dictates to the letter. They are in fact agents of a ‘foreign’ power. Ron Paul and his supporters stand against this Bolshevik Leviathan to their own peril. America is only the latest nation of slaves (slavs) to fall under the yoke of the Pharisees. It is in a maze to which there is no escape. Woe be to the slaves of Zion. The enemies of Zion shall inherit the Earth,to be buried in it. There is no justice to be seen. Only pray there is Heaven and Hell.

  • As Chris Lawton inferred… Ron Paul is a man who feels it very important to debate the principals of our country and our government. But he won’t get a legitimate conversation from any of the candidates for the Republican party…as the debates proved, it seems that the other candidates (and with the media leading us by the nose) would rather market themselves as the most electable, not who would make the best president.

    As a Liberal Democrat, and as a gay man, I would seriously consider voting for him. He strikes me as the only candidate who tries to bring to the discussion the philosophy of what America could be and what it should be to its citizens and the world, and goes further to address the systemic problems of privatizing and incorporating of the government that have come in the last few decades and still exists today (Blackwater, Federal Reserve, Charter Schools, anyone?).

    I firmly believe that our past actions of international subterfuge and influence in our foreign policy and world wide trade played a major part in the Sept 11 attack, and has placed us in the situation we are in today. And no administration either has done nothing to reel in our ego, our arrogance, or our supposed need for world influence in the name of national security.

    I am all in favor of any candidate that will help to re-evaluate America on the world stage from an aggressive democratic military force (talk about an oxymoron) into a country that truly cares for its citizens, its place in the global arena, and it’s impact on the world and its people.

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