People don’t know not to trust them

Politically-engaged people often forget just how little everyone else knows about politics. Many of us take it for granted that the typical person who’s vaguely aware of current events at least knows some details, for example, about the upcoming presidential race, who the candidates are, what side they’re on, etc.

But we’re reminded, on occasion, that people are frequently confused. Take the latest Gallup poll, for example. (via T. W. Farnam)

A new Gallup Panel survey finds each of the five best-known 2008 presidential candidates scoring similarly in ratings of public confidence in their ability to recommend the right thing for the war in Iraq. This suggests that despite public dissatisfaction with the war, it is not necessarily a winning issue for Democratic candidates. […]

Unless there is a major shift in Bush administration policy on the war in Iraq between now and next summer, that issue is likely to dominate the 2008 presidential campaign. But the poll finds none of the major candidates standing out from the others on this issue. Aside from Romney and Thompson, the five other candidates score between 50% and 55% on this measure of public confidence in their ability to choose the proper course of action in Iraq.

Specifically, when respondents were asked which candidates they trusted to handle the war, McCain and Giuliani tied for first (55% each), followed by Obama (54%), Clinton (51%), and Edwards (50%).

Now, the natural question is: how is this possible? How can the same people who support troop withdrawal and abhor Bush’s current policy trust candidates who oppose troop withdrawal and support Bush’s policy? I suspect it’s pretty simple: most people have no idea what these candidates think about Iraq. They probably heard something, from someone, at some time, about McCain and Giuliani being “strong” on foreign policy, so they assume they’re trustworthy on Iraq.

The Gallup question on terrorism was even more discouraging.

When respondents were asked which candidates they trusted to handle the terrorism, Giuliani was the big winner (with 69%), followed by McCain (66%), Clinton (55%), Obama (53%), and Edwards (48%).

And why does Giuliani fare so well? Because he held some press conferences six years ago, and the media has been telling people ever since what an expert he is on counter-terrorism and national security.

Of course, all of this should be taken with a grain of salt. It’s July, the year before the campaign. Public perceptions can and will change, and people can and will learn about the candidates. A voter might think Giuliani is great on Iraq, right up until he or she learns that Giuliani has no Iraq policy, avoids talking about the war, and has a fourth-grader’s understanding of the Middle East.

It’s a reminder, though, that uninformed public perceptions can last quite a while, and Democrats have a lot of work to do help change them.

Guilani?…Guiliani…GUILIANI???? I choked on my snack food. How the hell is that possible? No one is more ignorant on terrorism or Iraq or foreign policy than Guiliani. God I’m depressed. Those statistics are horrifying. Guiliani is a joke on any of these issues. Just pathetic.

  • And I just promised a poorly-informed friend that the Democrats could coast to victory on a platform of “we dress like hippies”. Guess I’ll be emigrating. *sigh*

  • These kind of results really piss me off. Here we are, with a solid majority of citizens fed up with Bush and his machinations, yet they are utterly uninformed with respect to a host of issues of the day.

    I got the following from a website when searching for the appropriate quote from the time of our Forefathers regarding an ‘informed populace’:

    “The Founders spoke of the need for an ‘informed populace.’ Information is now available only to those who seek it with discretion – those who have the leisure and the resources to discover what one needs to know to be an effective citizen. We are relegated to being consumers rather than citizens, cheerleaders rather than an informed populace.”

    That is what is particularly annoying. The people realize that they’ve been and continue to be had, yet they largely do not seek out the truth. Surely, not many people have the ‘leisure’ to search out this stuff, but the resources are certainly there.

    I suppose the adage ‘you get the leaders that you deserve’ has some measure of truth to it. People have to stay informed–and that is defined as knowledge of current events that is not filtered by a particular worldview or political slant. Surely, I do not haunt the far-right sites, but I have a good idea what they’re saying. It’s hard to stay informed for most people. What to do?

  • A voter might think Giuliani is great on Iraq, right up until he or she learns that Giuliani has no Iraq policy, avoids talking about the war, and has a fourth-grader’s understanding of the Middle East.

    Although they certainly could learn this vital information from blogs, most of America gets their info from the media bobbleheads who continue to foist Bill Kristol on us all as if he’s an expert at anything but making bad predictions. Everyone should read Glen Greenwald’s latest rant on the media:

    http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/07/31/ohanlon/index.html

    …For sheer deceit and propaganda, it is difficult to remember something quite this audacious and transparently false.

    As was demonstrated yesterday, O’Hanlon and Pollack were among the most voracious cheerleaders for Bush’s invasion and, as the war began to collapse, among its most deceitful defenders. But it goes so far beyond that.

    Even through this year, they have remained loyal Bush supporters. They were not only advocates of the war, but cheerleaders for the Surge. They were, and continue to be, on the fringe of pro-war sentiment in this country. And yet all day yesterday, this country’s media loudly hailed them as being exactly the opposite of what they really are. It was 24 hours of unadulterated, amazingly coordinated war propaganda that could not have been any further removed from the truth…

    I want to know how many of us still think Saddam was behind 9/11 or that we found the WMDs. Until those numbers get below 20% we’re still living in a media-induced fantasy.

  • No surprise.

    “Who is strong on terror” = “Who will off brown people in large numbers on little or no evidence?”

    Pollsters would like to ask the second question, but still have some residual shame.

  • It reminds me of what a famous law professor once said concerning the reasons people vote shares of stock the way they do: “Most people are idiots,” said the learned prof.

  • Tim Grieve had a good post last Friday in Salon’s War Room blog about how easy it is to forget what it is like to be “out of touch” with the news. For those of us who do not track and analyze current event as part of our jobs, the “keeping up” with it all can be tough. First one must find the time and then one must find his / her way to accurate reporting. A small change in emphasis here and a little too much conventional beltway wisdom there and even a “tuned in” person can draw the wrong conclusions. That is why it infuriates this citizen so much when the MSM fails to report news that (e.g., the Downing Street Memo) that seems to them “not to be news.” They assume that because “everybody in town (Washington)” knew about a story or a story angle, that the rubes outside the beltway must know, too. This is wrong.

    I do not talk politics much these days because my fascination with current events far exceeds that of most of my friends. But, the other day I was part of a conversation on politics. One person was offering that he was going to vote in the next Presidential election for the first time (at age 30). He said he wished he could support John Edwards because he was a “Tar Heel,” and he thought UNC roots = “Good.” But, alas, Edwards had been a dirty trial lawyer, and therefore, UNC ties notwithstanding, he could not be considered for the job as President. The other person gave an opinion that a person who will not take a stand but tries to have it both ways by appealing to “both sides” cannot be taken seriously in politics today. Then that person announced how much he admired Joe Lieberman. I waited for Rod Serling to walk into the room, but he never came.

  • Dumbest. Empire. Ever.

    America is like a Potemkin village filled with idiots.
    You wonder what’s holding the whole dumb thing up…

    Of course the answer is debt…

    LOL.

  • A voter might think Giuliani is great on Iraq, right up until he or she learns that Giuliani has no Iraq policy, avoids talking about the war, and has a fourth-grader’s understanding of the Middle East.

    Problem is, the average American has no Iraq policy, avoids talking about the war, and has a fourth-grader’s understanding of the Middle East. So Giuliani seems just like them, except he’s so manly. (And also, he was on TV on 9/11.)

  • I don’t mean to step on Former Dan’s turf, but here goes.
    Apologies to Rice & Weber. (And how eternally dangerous to parody a song from Jesus Christ Superstar!)

    To the tune of “I Dont Know How to Love Him”

    I don’t know not to trust them
    I don’t keep up on the issues
    ‘Cept for the tabs, their Britney jabs
    In these past few years, when I’ve seen D.C,
    its really not for me.

    I don’t know not to trust them
    They’re elected – they must know best
    Like Ru-di, there for NYC
    the media seems to think they’re swell,
    In very many ways,
    how could I tell?

    Should I try to learn?
    What is their policy?
    Its so easy to ignore
    What I don’t want to see
    I never thought I’d need to know
    What its all about?

    Don’t you think it’s rather funny,
    We should be in this position.
    We’re the citizens who’ve always been
    So calm, so cool, no voting fools,
    Ignoring all the world.
    Now they scare me so.

    I never thought I’d need to know
    What’s it all about?
    Yet, how can I know better
    without missing Inside Edition?
    Its too much work, just too much work
    Someone else can save the day
    I just don’t want to know.
    They scare me so.
    I trusted them so
    I just don’t know.

  • Looks like there was no party affiliation given when the question was asked. Most people form their political opinions based on network evening news broadcasts, which are probably averaging two or three minutes of political news a night right now (if that), so the wider, non-political-junkie public probably still has a fairly shaky grasp of who’s who. If the question had been asked in the form of “Republican Mitt Romney” or “Democratic Candidate Barack Obama” I’ll bet you’d have see significantly different results.

    (Fox Noise knows that too, which is why they’re probably running a photo of Ted Stevens with “D-AK” next to his name, right this minute, while they read the story of the FBI raiding his house.)

  • It’s hard to stay informed for most people. What to do? — terraformer #3.

    It’s hard to pass a driving test for most people. What to do? — Don’t let them drive.

    What fundamentally is the difference? An automobile can kill people, and a government sure can. Almost everyone devotes a lot of money and time to getting a driving license, so why don’t they spend the same time and resources getting a competent government they can trust? The needs and the dangers are not so different.

    Monarchies have not always been, in history, the total disasters they are currently held to be. ‘Monarchy’, ‘dictatorship’, ‘oligarchy’ — words with sinister implications. There are examples, however, of benign and even enlightened monarchies / dictatorships, which have worked very well. We don’t want to give people (one in particular) any further ideas or encouragement in that direction, though, so I’ll just state it and leave it.

    Democracy, with the huge populations and territories now involved, are very different from the Greek forums and town squares from which the idea originated. This poll shows that the system is ailing and needs maintenance. What to do? — Muddle along? Keep our fingers crossed?

    Personally, I favor consideration of ‘voter license’ (nothing to do with discriminatory voter registration). Something like driving license. You have to show that you know how to get the information you need, know how to use it, and have adequate awareness of issues, context and mechanisms of government. Sounds rather ambition, but what else. You wouldn’t let someone take control of an automobile with less, would you?

    The corollary of this would be, unfortunately, the imposition of some obligation to use the vote you are endowed with. The three would have to work together : universal suffrage, minimum comprehension (IQ-linked?), maximized turnout.

    I floated this notion some months back and got pounced on by Morbo, who dismissed it as unworkable in USA. I recognize it has a spooky, Brave-New-World-like tinge to it. But the status quo is also something of a disaster. And the idea has been tried and operated successfully in other countries (Australia, best known example).

  • Goldi, we could have a very short, simple Voter Qualification (VQ) test:

    Circle all that apply. “Petraeus” refers to:

    a) The Great Right Hope
    b) A brand of bottled water
    c) Tony Snow in a uniform
    d) I don’t know, but it sounds French so I don’t like it

  • These poll numbers come as no surprise to me. We take for granted the intellect of most Americans. Truthfully, and sadly so, there are millions upon millions of uneducated and gullible citizens out there.

    The media preys upon them with Paris Hilton while tricking them into believing the lies told by the same people that are fucking them to begin with.

    It is by design – a true middle class, an educated population, is the enemy of the republican corporatists.

  • 2nd the motion (mine’s shaking too).

    But seriously, I’ve often wondered what government would look like if people had to pass a simple current events and civics test before being allowed to vote.

  • CP: I’ve seen several recent polls indicating people generically trust Democrats more than Republicans on Iraq these days — and everything else for that matter, but especially on Iraq. That’s why I was nearly sure before I even looked that the way the question was worded in this poll did not include party affiliation for the candidates’ names.

  • As Ohio’s Republican Senator Robert A. Taft, a man whose patriotism cannot be questioned, remarked less than two weeks after Pearl Harbor, “Criticism in time of war is essential to the maintenance of any kind of democratic government…. The maintenance of the right of criticism
    in the long run will do the country… more good than it will do the enemy [who might draw comfort from it], and it will prevent mistakes which might otherwise occur.”

    ”To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.” – Theodore Roosevelt

    The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands whether of one, a few or many, and whether hereditary, self appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.
    James Madison “Federalist No. 47″

    ”A popular government without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy, or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which
    knowledge gives.”
    James Madison, from a letter to W.T. Barry, August 4, 1822

    ”Every nation has its war party. It is not the party of democracy. It is the party of autocracy. It seeks to dominate absolutely.
    In times of peace, the war party insists on making preparation for war. As soon as prepared for, it insists on making war.
    If there is no sufficient reason for war, the war party will make war on one pretext, then invent another……after the war is on.
    Before the war is ended, the war party assumes the divine right to denounce and silence all opposition to war as unpatriotic and cowardly.
    Let no man think we can deny civil liberty to others and retain it for ourselves. When zealous agents of the Government arrest suspected “radicals” without warrant, hold them without prompt
    trial, deny them access to counsel and admission of bail…….we have shorn the Bill of Rights of its sanctity……”
    —Senator Robert M. La Follette, Sr., 1918

    ”Implicit in the term ‘national defense’ is the notion of defending those values and ideas which set this nation apart. It would indeed be ironic if, in the name of national defense, we would sanction the subversion of those liberties which make the defense of the nation worthwhile.”
    –Earl Warren

    No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.
    –H.L. Mencken, 1924

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