Poll offers a lay of the land as the general election gets underway

Now that both parties have presumptive nominees, general-election polls have grown considerably more salient. Voters now have a clear, one-to-one choice, between two candidates, two parties, and two worldviews.

And at the starting line, a new CBS/NYT poll shows Obama with an edge.

Presumptive Democratic nominee Barack Obama holds a six point lead over his Republican counterpart John McCain, a new CBS News poll finds. Obama leads McCain 48 percent to 42 percent among registered voters, with 6 percent of respondents undecided.

The poll contains troubling signs for Obama as he looks to mobilize the Democratic Party behind him following his long and sometimes bitter battle with Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nomination, however.

Twelve percent of Democrats say they will support McCain in the general election. That’s higher than the 8 percent of Democrats who defected to President Bush in 2004. Nearly a quarter of Clinton supporters say they will back McCain instead of Obama in the general election.

First, if Obama is leading McCain nationally with a quarter of Clinton’s backers siding with the conservative Republican candidate, that’s pretty impressive. Second, I have to assume that these same Clinton backers will, slowly but surely, move towards the Democratic ticket and the issues, values, and priorities that Clinton takes seriously. This will be easier once intra-party animosity begins to cool down, and after Clinton endorses and begins campaigning for Obama.

In other words, Obama leads McCain nationally by six before some of Clinton’s most ardent backers are prepared to move away from the conservative Republican and towards the candidate who agrees with Clinton on almost everything. With this in mind, Obama’s lead should get bigger, by virtue of these Dems alone.

Granted, a poll like this, five months before the general election, offers little predictive value (especially without state numbers pointing to the electoral college). It is, however, a helpful benchmark, and while CBS News’ report emphasizes that the results contain “troubling signs for Obama,” the truth is the numbers look considerably worse for McCain.

* Bush: The president’s approval rating is down to a stunning 25%, and “more than four in ten voters believe McCain would, indeed, generally continue Mr. Bush’s policies.”

* Favorability: Obama has a favorable/unfavorable rating of 41/31. McCain’s numbers are 34/37.

* Age: Nearly one-in-three voters believe McCain’s age (he’ll be 72 this year) will be an obstacle to his effectiveness as president.

* Caring about voters’ problems: While Obama and McCain are even on sharing voters’ values, poll respondents were also asked if the candidate care about voters’ problems. On this, Obama led McCain by 16 points.

* Iraq: Most Americans seem to reject McCain’s approach to Iraq altogether.

Sixty-one percent say Iraq will never become a stable democracy – the highest number since CBS News starting asking the question in December 2003. Just one third think Iraq will become a stable democracy, and most of them think that will take longer than two years.

Thirty-five percent of those surveyed say things are going well in Iraq, down from 40 percent in April. Sixty-two percent say things are going badly.

Americans would like U.S. troops to come home from Iraq sooner rather than later. 42 percent are willing to have U.S. troops remain in Iraq for only a year or less. 21 percent say troops should stay for one to two years more, while 30 percent are willing to keep troops in Iraq longer than two years.

No word on how folks feel about “100 years” in Iraq after a war with an indefinite end.

Like I said, this is a benchmark, which can be used to monitor trends and movements in various directions as the general-election phase begins in earnest. But at the outset, the landscape doesn’t look too shabby at all.

You put Age twice, the second time at the start of the Iraq section.

  • …Clinton backers will, slowly but surely, move towards the Democratic ticket and the issues, values, and priorities that Clinton takes seriously.

    Unless what’s important to those 25% is experience (or perceived experience). There are some who believe Obama is too inexperienced for the job and would rather have someone they feel is qualified, even if they disagree with him on the issues.

    I recommend that Obama remedy this problem by growing a beard and/or putting on 50 pounds. Something to make him look less like a scrawny kid.

  • No word on how folks feel about “100 years” in Iraq after a war with an indefinite end.

    Speaking of indefinite ends…

    A secret deal being negotiated in Baghdad would perpetuate the American military occupation of Iraq indefinitely, regardless of the outcome of the US presidential election in November.

    The terms of the impending deal, details of which have been leaked to The Independent, are likely to have an explosive political effect in Iraq. Iraqi officials fear that the accord, under which US troops would occupy permanent bases, conduct military operations, arrest Iraqis and enjoy immunity from Iraqi law, will destabilise Iraq’s position in the Middle East and lay the basis for unending conflict in their country

    …The Iraqi government wants to delay the actual signing of the agreement but the office of Vice-President Dick Cheney has been trying to force it through…

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/revealed-secret-plan-to-keep-iraq-under-us-control-840512.html

    I’m pretty sure the Iraqis will have something to say about Cheney’s latest attempt to enslave them further, and that their actions will help a lot more Americans realize how little they want Cheney’s buddy McCain to be president.

  • I think it’s good for Obama that the report downplays his support. It’s best to lower expectations now, then as expectations rise and, hopefully, better reflect reality, it will feel like the kind of surge we’ve been waiting for.

    I’m obviously glad that Obama has sewn up the nomination and I think he will do well in the general. The only discomforting aspect is that he (to use a sports metaphor) “took a knee” and “played out the clock” for the final primaries. That was probably a smart strategy for several reasons, but I would have liked for him to finish strong. The dynamics of the general election will be different and I expect him to fight for votes all the way to November.

  • I think they are wanting to include contractors in that immunity also, Racer X.

    Obama is going to have to get out his fine-tooth comb to go through all the crap Cheney has left around.

  • What I find surprising, especially this early (relatively speaking) – pre Labor Day – is that only 6% claim to be undecided. I have to think that is historically unusual.

    It is worth noting as well that even if every one of those undecided broke for McCain (unlikely) he would still only be tied with Obama. Not an enviable position for McCain. If 33% of the undecideds break Obama, he is over 50% and locks. McCain will need to convert people who presently express a preference for Obama to get a winning number; that is a bit harder to do.

  • That’s a great point, Happy Shiny. At this point in the general election, the undecideds are generally a much larger group.

  • Everett, I wouldn’t be looking too close at bumps after a campaign of this length and magnitude. McCain has a tendency to go down when people know him. Obama goes up.

  • These numbers are a LOT better than they look. McCain’s problem was Hillary’s problem. Neither one of them had an upside. There were never many people who said “I used to be against Hillary, but I decided that she was a good candidate, so I switched to her.” She was maxed-out at the beginning and could only lose votes as Obama got stronger, or with the aid of Limbaugh, or by placing the race and gender card, or by arguing that ‘McCain was better than Obama, but I’m better than either of them’ and all three of them cost her more support than she gained.

    But McCain is in an even worse position. People have known it was going to be Obama for months. McCain already has the anti-Obama vote. And everyone who was going to be impressed by McCain’s supposed ‘strengths’ are already in his corner.

    (Even the MSM isn’t going to be able to help much — assuming they want to, which — as most of you know — I doubt. They’ve exhausted their supply of ‘pet phrases’ in his behalf. If they are going to write anything about him, it’s going to be ‘something new’ and the only new things to say about him are negative. Think about it — can anyone here suggest a serious headline featuring McCain that would cause people who wouldn’t vote for him to do so — and would not involve an incredible flip-flop like suddenly opposing the war and joining with Obama in pledging to bring the troops home.)

    And how much of his current support consists of ‘piqued’ Hillary supporters who are lashing out but who will calm down and see they can’t support Hillary by supporting someone who opposes every one of her positions?

    On the other hand, Obama does have an upside. (How many of us were wary of him at first, but came around to realizing he was for real? Me, for one.) Every time he speaks, he brings a few new supporters over, either people who were dubious as we were, or people who simply admire his courage and gentlemanly style — or realize that his solutions make sense and McCain’s don’t and provably have only made things worse.

    Relax guys, let’s dig in on the down ticket races, and keep up the pressure on JMcC, but let’s do it realizing that this time we really are going to win.

  • One thing is for sure, we need to all get out and register voters, and make sure that all our voters have the required IDs as needed, so that the inevitable Republican attempts to keep them from voting will fail.

    Obama’s candidacy is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to get people to register as Democrats, and we need to take full advantage of this. Everywhere he goes we need to be there with registration cards, and get the millions of normally apathetic people to sign up and vote. We can make this a blowout of epic proportions if we all just do a little legwork in the coming months.

    I forsee November 4th as a day in history, with HUGE lines of happy people stretching out as far as the eye can see, waiting patiently to vote FOR a truly good candidate, and AGAINST the guy who backed up the worst president ever. MILLIONS of those voters will be voting for the first time ever, and the Democratic party will have many of them for life, especially after president Obama, with his HUGE mandate, kicks the living shit out of the Washington political scene.

  • Racer X said:
    Speaking of indefinite ends…

    “A secret deal being negotiated in Baghdad would perpetuate the American military occupation of Iraq indefinitely, regardless of the outcome of the US presidential election in November.”

    — The Independent

    I hope Obama gets out in front of this and declares that he will not be bound by any agreements Bush signs with the Iraqi government.

    Since Bush won’t submit this “understanding” for Senate approval, it won’t have any force in law. And after Bush saying that all along that he didn’t intend to have permanent American bases in Iraq, I can’t imagine the American people are going to be happy to learn that he lied to them — again.

    This will really undercut McCain’s attempts to backpeddle on his “Hundred years” statement, too.

  • RacerX,

    An addendum to you unfortunately necessary warning:

    Encourage everyone you know to vote early if your state allows it. You skip the long lines, and you make yourself available to volunteer on election day.

  • On a related note (and recognizing Haik’s legit point at 14), The Votemaster has retooled his site for the General Election and shows good news to start the race.

    Seeing the map also impacts my thinking re VP. I still like Schweitzer. But it puts Richardson back toward the top for me as well. I had been concerned about the fact that Richardson tends to be a bit of a loose cannon (drafted by a major league baseball team?), but he would put a number of southwestern states in good shape or in play for us in a way that would make McCain’s taks Herculean.

  • You never want to put the cart ahead of the horse, and I think there’s a decent shot McCain comes out a lot stronger than many of my friends here seem to believe.

    But to Racer X’s point, it’s worth noting early that the bigger Obama’s margin–and the more money he raises, the more energy he unleashes on this process–the stronger he’ll be when he actually takes office and starts doing the real hard work of cleaning up the Bush/Cheney mess. This guy has a chance not only to make history, obviously, but to emerge as an elemental force in Democratic politics the likes of which the country hasn’t seen since FDR. But that really depends on all of us, as much or more than him.

  • HSD:
    Sorry. I am a long-time Richardsom supporter — he was my first choice way back when — but he would be an impossible pick, sadly. I have no doubt that America is ‘ready’ for the Black President she will have, but a ‘black/Hispanic’ ticket might be too much for some people to accept. (Ironically, the best R VP would be Crist — if he weren’t gay. The best or second-best D VP would be Richardson — if he weren’t Hispanic. (Remember how incredibly large a percentage of the anti-immigrant, send ’em back, make ’em learn English crowd isn’t objecting to immigrants per se, or even ‘illegal immigrants’ but, in reality, Hispanic immigrants.)

  • There are some who believe Obama is too inexperienced for the job and would rather have someone they feel is qualified, even if they disagree with him on the issues.

    I can’t really believe this is true — why would you want someone “experienced” to put in policies you disagree with? Isn’t that doubly stupid? But, I know, logic doesn’t necessarily enter into it.

    It’s really too early to tell what people will do — if the situation were reversed, I don’t know as an Obama supporter what I’d be saying right now, but I do know that in a month everything would look and be different.

    I truly don’t get how a democrat and someone who believes in those issues could *ever* vote for McCain, especially after what we’ve seen over the last 7.5 years. It’s like when I’d see W 2004 bumper stickers and think, really, you really still think that’s a good idea?!

  • “The only discomforting aspect is that he (to use a sports metaphor) “took a knee” and “played out the clock” for the final primaries.”

    Nah. Coach Hambone has won a lot of games by following the old adage of never throwing the ball in the 4th quarter with a lead. Defense wins championships!!

  • Certainly some of those Hillary supporters will come home to the Democratic presidential candidate after their animosity fades. But I fear that a big chunk of the Hillary demographic (white, not so well-off, older, especially in Appalachia and the South) will never vote for Obama. I don’t even have to tell you why.

    Exhibit A? My 87-year-old mother, who never voted for any Republican in her entire life except Eisenhower. She has never been an overt racist. In fact, when I was a little kid I got in huge trouble once for using the “n” word. (I never used it again.)

    When I mention Obama, Mom “just doesn’t like him.” She can’t stand McCain either, but I think she won’t vote for either one in November.

    Like Obama said, being an African-American with a name like Barak Obama is no advantage when you’re running for President.

  • “Second, I have to assume that these same Clinton backers will, slowly but surely, move towards the Democratic ticket and the issues, values, and priorities that Clinton takes seriously. This will be easier once intra-party animosity begins to cool down, and after Clinton endorses and begins campaigning for Obama.”

    Agreed. HRC has not begun campaigning for Obama yet but when she does, it will move the poll numbers.

  • This is wonderful news!

    I knew that this was like 1988. At this time in 1988, Dukakis was 20 points ahead of G. H. W. Bush, and Bush won. As people generallyh vote more conservative in the fal, and with Obama tied with McCain in every poll or within the margin of error, it looks like we will be spared the terror of an anti-American secular fundamentalist leftist regime at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
    (Thank you, Lord!)

    YES WE McCAN!!!

  • So is Obama an African American candidate or a white candidate? His mother is white, but yet he is only recognized for being the first African-American candidate. This to me seems offensive to all white voters. Why not say he is the first bi-racial candidate? Why is he not considered white? And the media says it is not about Race.

  • I am from a small state, don’t consider myself a racist and yet can’t find the stomach to vote for Obama. I guess I have issues with the following: I want a leader who has experience, Obama has little. Military strength is learned not something you surround yourself with, I want a candidate who knows the score and not just told things are working, Obama does not have that either.

    Crucify me for saying what others will not say. 9/11 conjours up radical images of terrorists flying planes into buildings. Barrack Hussein Obama reminds me of someone not American. Why will he not wear an American Pin? He has grown up everywhere but here, again not someone I would consider American. Yet when it comes to a corrupt lobbyist in Chicago selling a real estate to Obama and Obama acting like he did nothing wrong then I have an issue with that. Lastly his patronage to his church and having been a part of it for 20 years and ONLY when he runs for President does he seemed conflicted with what Rev Wright preaches. I find major charachter flaws with Obama and for me it is clear I WILL VOTE JOHN MCCAIN even though I am a Democrat. Sorry but Obama spells radical to me.

  • Crucify me for saying what others will not say. -James

    You’re not worth the wood or the spikes.

  • I am from a small state, don’t consider myself a racist [denial works wonders] and yet can’t find the stomach to vote for Obama. I guess I have issues with the following: I want a leader who has experience being wrong, Obama has little. Military strength is learned by crashing airplanes, burning carriers, and being wrong on war and vetrans care policies not something you surround yourself with, I want a candidate who knows to settle the score whith those brown skinned folks (but I’m not a racist) and not just told things are working, Obama does not have that either.

    Crucify me for saying what others will not say. 9/11 conjours up radical images of arrogant white Republican politicians allowing terrorists to flying planes into buildings. Barrack Hussein Obama John McCain reminds me of someone not American. Why will he not wear an American Pin [his was made in China]? He was born has grown up everywhere but here, again not someone I would consider American. Yet when it comes to a corrupt lobbyist in Chicago selling a real estate to ObamaSavings and Loan scandal and ObamaMcCain acting like he did nothing wrong then I have an issue with that. Lastly his patronage to his churchsucking up to Radical Pastors Hagee and Parsley and having been a part of it for 20 years and ONLY when he runs for President does he seemed conflicted with what Rev WrightHagee preaches. I find major charachter flaws with Obama and for me it is clear I WILL VOTE JOHN MCCAIN even though I am an inconsistent hypocrite Democrat. Sorry but Obama spells radical to me.

    fixed it for you.

  • Why is it so hard to believe that someone wouldn’t vote for Obama because he’s a radical? It’s a valid complaint, seeing as Obama is the farthest left Democratic nominee since Jimmy Carter, and that didn’t work out very well in the long run ;).

    Besides, you actually believe that “arrogant white Republican politicians” were responsible for 9/11? Jeez, no offense, but you’re delusional.

  • Funny how some people actually think Obama is a “radical”. Here in Europe he’d be considered right-of-centre. You guys have let the far-right define the political debate for far too long.

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