Praying for sanity in Alabama
Guest Post by Morbo
Is there something in the water that makes judges in Alabama go insane?
This is the state that brought us Roy Moore, formerly chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, who was ejected from that position after he defied a federal court order and would not remove a Ten Commandments monument from the state judicial building.
Now another Alabama judge, Ashley McKathan, has decided to merge religion with the courtroom. McKathan, who actually has a judicial robe with the Ten Commandments embroidered on it, is accused of forcing people to pray in his courtroom. He is being sued by the Alabama branch of the American Civil Liberties Union.
The Associated Press reported:
The ACLU complaint said McKathan dropped to his knees and prayed aloud during a court hearing in February. He told the 100 people in the courtroom that he was not afraid to call on the name of Jesus Christ, witnesses said, and ordered all to join hands and pray, according to the complaint filed soon after the hearing.
The AP story added, “The complaint said McKathan violated ethics rules and the U.S. Constitution by ordering the group to pray.”
Yeah
, I think he did.
Naturally, McKathan, who is a circuit judge in Covington County, can’t understand what all the fuss is about. Asked about the matter by one Alabama newspaper, McKathan quoted the Book of Romans.
This should not be hard. You pray at church, synagogue, temple, mosque or in your home. Pray in your car if you like. You can even pray on the job as long as it’s a personal and non-disruptive thing and no one else is being pressured to take part.
But expecting everyone to join hands, hit the floorboards and pray in the courtroom is not cool. It not only subjects people to possibly unwanted religious coercion, it sends a message that the court has some kind of religious cast to it, that the judge might make decisions based not on state laws and the Constitution but on religious principles.
Those types of courts exist in Iran, but they are alien in the United States. If Judge McKathan can’t understand that, he deserves to meet the same fate as Roy Moore: unemployment.
jimBOB
says:Is there something in the water that makes judges in Alabama go insane?
Not insanity, just an anti-intellectual/theocratic social context. The Taliban with grits.
Sometimes I think Lincoln made a mistake in forcing these bozos back into the Union.
majun
says:When McKathan shows up in court as defendant, the presiding judge should roll out a prayer rug, face east and start praying and tell McKathan that if he wants a chance in that court he better follow suit.
He might get the message then.
Shalimar
says:I live just outside of Covington county and know hundreds of people there, including McKathan. As far as I can tell, McKathan is more of an opportunist who has intentionally tried to gain national attention using Moore as a model, not a true believer.
McKathan is also a Mason, which shouldn’t be a bad thing, except McKathan has a habit of ruling in favor of his lodge brothers regardless of how outrageous their case is (I know of 3 examples personally, all child custody cases where he was extremely biased against the mother). Not something you expect from someone who actually follows biblical teaching. There are lots of stories about McKathan around here, very few of them good. He has ambitions far beyond Covington county, which is why you are reading about him.
SteveT
says:The zealots like Judge McKathan always seem ready to quote Old Testament restrictions and punishments while rejecting the ideals of tolerance and forgiveness taught by their religion’s namesake. Unfortunately, the irony is lost on them. They are irony-deficient — because they have to be.
Matthew 6:
the seal
says:I think Shalimar has it right, he must be thinking about a run for governer.
PaulW
says:Then this isn’t a problem with the judges in Alabama. It’s a problem with the PEOPLE in Alabama who can’t see past this grandstanding and hypocrisy and recognize that these praying judges are just publicity hounds. And that passage from Matthew 6 is completely spot on.
Shalimar
says:BTW, he wasn’t wearing the ten commandments robe either time I have been in his courtroom. That was his attempt at national publicity 3-4 years ago, he doesn’t appear to have kept at it once the publicity value was gone. Admittedly my observation was limited, maybe I just caught him on non-biblical days and he still wears it most of the time. But it definitely isn’t the only robe he has.
ericfree
says:Seriously, let’s cut Alabama some slack. The nutballs get the publicity, while those who oppose them are often dismissed, taken for granted or seen as outsiders, and they’re not. The Federal judge who slapped down Moore was an Alabaman, as are the members of the Alabama ACLU who are suing in this case. The Southern Poverty Law Center, which has done more to destroy the Klan and the White Citizens Councils than any other entity, has been headquartered in Montgomery for over thirty-five years. Everybody remembers George Wallace, but few are aware of Richmond Flowers, who ran against him twice as a racially moderate Republican in an era when it was physically dangerous to do so and even though he knew he’d lose.
The South is like everywhere else, only more so. There are a lot of nuts there, but more than a few nutcrackers too, and they deserve as much recognition as the bigots. That’s one of the ideas behind the Fifty-State Strategy.
olo
says:These people are a social disease. Sherman should have burned down the entire South, Not just Atlanta.
Prup (aka Jim Benton)
says:Shalimar:
I find it fascinating that he is ‘also a Mason,’ given the long history of the Masons being seen as the center — at one time — and even now at least a part of various ‘secret masters’ conspiracy theories on the right — going back to the original ones aimed at Jefferson — I used to remember the clergyman behind this but his name slips my mind and It’s too early for me to go digging through my libraries.
In fact, there was even an anti-Masonic twist the the “Jesus Family Tomb” inanity — on the website, though they didn’t put it in the tv documentary.
And, Shalimar, going back to my own ‘theme of the week’ — that ‘WE are Obama’s surrogates — have you told the type of people you know about Sturgis, and asked them how “regardless of the politics they could even considering voting for someone who chose to prostitute himself for votes by even showing up and speaking at a festival of ‘drunken, fornicating’ bikers, could serve, effectively, as the ‘opening act for Kid Rock’ and could, even as a joke suggest that Cindy should enter the competition.”
They will be in a totally cleft stick. If they argue ‘well, he didn’t know what he was saying,’ then ask them if this is the type of judgment they want in a President — and point out his advisers have denied this. If they say ‘it was a joke’ point out that, unlike the newsreports, which just mentioned the ‘toplessness,’ that the event included acts of ‘simulated sodomy’ (to RRers, oral sex is sodomy), etc., etc. (And remember, a lot of these people DO HAVE computers to keep in touch with their favorite evangelists. Tell them to disable the ‘parental controls,’ send the kids out of the house, and look at even the milder videos from Sturgis, and then at McCain’s speech.)
And remind them that this wasn’t just a scheduling error, that he deliberately — unlike any politician before him — chose to speak there.
THEN — oh, will you be hearing this repeatedly from me today — tell them to tune into the Faith Forum tonight. I’ll discuss this more in the “This Week in God” forum, but this may be the most important campaign event of all, simply because of the ‘expectations’ game.
Prup (aka Jim Benton)
says:olo: the contrast between your comment and ericfree’s before it makes the point I would have made.
People, not only is ‘category thinking’ just as wrong when we do it as when Republicans do it, but did you ever think that one way Kerry and Gore managed to lose their races — or keep them close enough that they could be stolen — was by thinking like this.
Isn’t this what the Dean strategy is all about — not ‘writing people off’ and forcing the Republicans to spend money and time defending their candidates even in ‘sure thing’ races? Sure, most of the people are hopeless, but there are always enough who aren’t that it is worth the effort — again, especially if we are the ones and not the campaign who are making the effort. (And remember, we don’t have to convince them to vote FOR Obama, just to decide not to vote for McCain.)
olo
says:I can enjoy tolerance and the effects of positive persuasion & conversion upon people and events as well as I can revel in my moods that call for total annihilation of whatever bugs me.
I certainly get off on winning an argument and getting “that look on someone’s face” when he/she discovers that he/she has been fool. But I also am exhilarated by crushing an intransigent opponents face who choses to toss a fist my way.
These christofacists will never stop tossing fists in my face so I will likely continue to wish for their immediate journey to the afterlife.
Prup (aka Jim Benton)
says:olo:
Death wishes are NEVER acceptable here. Period. Even in jest.
Between this, your comments to me yesterday — which showed you no more know the difference between ‘socialism’ and ‘social democracy’ than the average Republican — and other comments you have made, isn’t there a different site you can go and infest?
We have a lot of contributors who are also guilty of taking ‘rhetorical exaggeration’ to the extreme, but sooner or later they show an ability to contribute useful comments. I haven’t seen that from you, but maybe I should be patient — since several people have accused me of being too patient with the trolls on the other side, I guess I should be with the ones on our side.
But, because we don’t need this sort of name calling, because we have the issues and the facts on our side, and because this sort of preposterous blather turns off any ‘undecided, leaning Republican’ who stops by, thinking they might actually be able to learn something here. it’s harder to be as patient with our own idiots.
Prup (aka Jim Benton)
says:And one more thing. In your comments yesterday, you said ‘only old people…” I am an old person (62 — as I have repeated many times). So?
joey
says:Oh if the defendant in the court would have screamed out “Allah be praised” giving them the right of appeal no matter the consequences of their case. Living in the bible belt I can tell you that having Jesus shoved down your throat by bigots makes one extremely resentful.
If the bible were only taught with Roman soldiers waling around during the sermon on the mount beating and whipping people and eve hanging them if they weren’t paying attention to Jesus then this blovating by blowhards would be easier to accept. Shall we resurrect the Inquisition to get rid of Jews and non-Catholics again to teach these “heretics” a lesson. They push for a theocracy as long as it’s their brand of religion in control…”We want under God not under Allah” yet can’t see it’s the same principle. How can you debate with willful ignorance and educated stupidity…like I’m an aero-space engineer and president of the “if man were meant to fly God would have given him wings” society. Just pathetic.
Purp…extremely difficult to act like ignorant scum so we can convince supporters of ignorant scum that what they support is ignorant scum. Difficult for intelligent caring individuals to initiate gutter politics…we respond to them but usually don’t have any desire to mud roll with these maggots…else the USS Forrestal stroy would be all over the net. Democratic Underground had a good video showing McCain in his true light that was well made but won’t see the light of day nationally. Meantime I’m getting extremely viral emails from members of the AEI and so called Christains filled with hate smears and lies on dems and Obama by the dozens. They have money pouring into these negative attacks but no response from dems or $ for our own attacks because we don’t feel that is or should be what campaigns are about enough to fund such smear campaigns like swift boaters. Decent people refuse to play like that…and these repukes count on that.
Give me a couple billion and I could put many in the press in the pockets of Liberals and fund “think tanks” to send negative mailers by the dozens too. Oh, wait, I have principles…I’m fucked.
Shalimar
says:I think Masons have mostly replaced the VFW as the primary male social group in small town Alabama, and maybe elsewhere. I don’t have an explanation for it.
As for telling people about Sturgis, I have made a point of telling religious women about it whenever talk turns to politics. Older men too if I know they are religious, but men around here usually aren’t. They pretend to be Christians, but go in any local church for a service during hunting season and you will find women outnumbering men 10 to 1. Whatever God requires shooting small animals and deer is the worship subject of choice for most males in this area. Somehow I don’t think those fake Christians are going to be disgusted by naked breasts and bikers. Most of them probably wish they had been there.
Timmy
says:Howdy, Couple of things….A) Hey Shalimar…WHERE do you live? I was surprised to learn that you live so close by!
B)I myself actually live not only in the county in question, Covington, I live in Andalusia the county seat itself. As an aside I’m also a bit of an oxymoron (pun intended) as I’m a liberal democrat living in the deep south. I know Judge McKathan (and his family) personally and have for years.
I’ve lived here off and on for over 20. I can tell you I have no idea the motivation behind his wearing of his robe (which I thought was a terrible idea) nor this latest twist. Publicity perhaps. I agree with everyone above who has said that in many cases the only people who get media attention are those who shout the loudest in their (in many cases manufactured) outrage and odd belief that somehow their very Christianity itself is somehow under attack by the rabid secularists.
On the other hand there are a good many people here in this town, and in this state who are on a completely different page. Our state representative is a Democrat and happens to be also the multi term Speaker of the House, Seth Hammet. After living here for all these years I can tell you that those who “believe” in many cases just DO. They’ve been indoctrinated into thinking that their belief system is truly RIGHT and I believe when faced with an alternative, or someone who thinks differently actually hear the teacher from Charlie Brown when they open their mouths.
The other striking thing about the contrast in values and beliefs is this. We seem to be a very silent minority in the south, we progressives, but I have another theory….we’re not silent…we’re just TOLERANT. Imagine. The reason they yell and scream and pitch fits is that they see any difference from their wretched sameness as an attack…me on the other hand?
I say, believe whatever you want, I’m a live and let live kind of guy. You think Jesus comes to visit you in your sleep telling you to go out and minister to the masses…groovy…(and quit bogarting that thing and pass it for God’s sake) fine by me, but don’t stop me in the street and tell me what I’m doing wrong or minister to me. I’m gonna be fine.
What we have to do is somehow change the litmus test for those who are put in a position that DEMANDS impartiality so we don’t end up in situations where you have sitting Judges, State Representatives or (gasp) even Presidents who rely more on their faith than on the ability to weigh choices without judgement and make a reasoned decision.
Being that I live here in the middle of this one….I’ll talk to CB and see (if there’s any ongoing interest ) if I can post breaking news updates, what with me being one of the very first rabid CB minions at the beginning of this blig….plus I got people on the inside…. This little tiny county in south Alabama is a very interesting microcosm.
olo
says:@ Prup ” I am an old person (62 — as I have repeated many times). So?
So you’re almost as old as I am, Big Deal.
I doubt that at 15 comments and slooooowly counting, RepOilican trolls are reaping much in the way of ‘rhetorical exaggeration’ from my opinions. And even if they are, So What? We already know they want us dead! Leting some of them know that I harbor a reciprocal attitude may keep one of THEM off my lawn.
Finally, (for the moment) finding fault with my outrage over what these shits have done to America and the World is little more than apologizing for their rape of the planet and their assorted genocides. Attempts to accomodate wingnuts simply encourages them to be nuttier… no matter how old one is.
I don’t want these “might makes rightists” infesting & spying on my side of the spectrum.
olo
says:One more thing:
The Dems have been the party of Wusses since LBJ went back to the ranch.
Fighting is Fighting and there is no such thing as Dirty Fighting.
You either fight to win (fight dirty) or you surrender.
Dems have been surrendering since Nixon kicked them to the pavement.
The so called Gentlemanly Principles are the principal way to defeat.
Hit ’em low, hit ’em hard, hit ’em often if you want to get rid on the bastards.
If you let a bully walk on you he will use you as a shortcut forever.
Unless there is a gun pointed at you, there is no reason to suck up to fascism and zero prospect of converting them with reason.
FIGHT BACK NOW or hang separately.
Shalimar
says:I live outside of McKenzie, in Conecuh County but very close to Butler and Covington. My family is from here back at least 6 generations, but I only moved here 4 years ago. I tend to believe most of the people around here are good people, even the majority who vote Republican, they just don’t have much interest in politics and have a number of beliefs that I don’t agree with. I don’t consider myself a Christian since I don’t have faith in a God who even notices our existence, but I was raised an Episcopalian and most of my values come from that so I have no problem relating to religious people. I also tend to be a very live and let live person, though it might not appear that way from most comments I post here. I absolutely cannot stand liars, and the Republican leadership tends to be so full of them it gets exasperating.
Keori
says:And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I refused a lucrative job posting in Georgia. These idiots and their public enforcers do NOT get my tax dollars or my business.
Having grown up in an extremely religious house where critical thinking was grounds for corporal punishment, I tend to agree with olo: these people are a social disease and need to rapture and get off the planet ASAP, or emigrate to Iran where they can have as much theocracy as they want. I hear Tehran is warm this time of year.
Michael W
says:Heh, all this talk of Alabama reminds me of (a href=”http://blog.jeffreymichael.com/archives/15″>an item I wrote last month, when I actually had to drive through the state while I was moving from Ft. Lauderdale to Seattle.
If I never have to visit Alabama again, I will die happy.
Michael W
says:Damn, I messed up the HTML tag.
Sorry.
Shalimar
says:That depends on what you like. There are pretty good hard rock stations in Panama City and Pensacola. Also two good soft rock/adult alternative stations in the latter. Mobile had the best station in the state in the 80s and 90s, 92.1, alternative in the sense that DJs could play whatever they wanted and generally chose great music like Melissa Etheridge (one of the first stations in the country to play her first CD), Stevie Ray Vaughan, Marcia Ball, Peter Himmelman, David Wilcox, etc. They also played jazz on Sundays, so that was an extra bonus since no one else in the area did. I heard they are up and running again, managed by the best of the old DJs, but it has been many years since I have been to Mobile. There are also several good classic rock stations in Birmingham if you pass through there, though again it has been a long time since I was there so that might have changed.
olo
says:@ 22. On August 16th, 2008 at 4:20 pm, Michael W said:
If I never have to visit Alabama again, I will die happy.
AMEN to that.
Try burning out a wheel bearing in Selma (1968) while transporting a Negro to his Navy job in VA (just a pit stop on the way to The Nam). Those supremacist pricks forced him from the car (where he was sleeping) and out of the shop – onto the street before working on the repair.
A nearby restaurant also denied admittance. Whites only signs were all over the place. and the vapid glares of the racist population were everywhere.
A more recent trip thru the backwards parts of FL affirmed that while they may have removed the whites only signs from the walls, Those signs live on in the sick minds of these asshats.
The notable exceptions to their quasi-institutionalized bigotry, by their scarcity, and as noted above by ericfree, actually reinforce the notion that the deep south is (for now) irredeemable.
Michael W
says:Shalimar (#24), I’m usually pretty open to anything, but I didn’t make it that far west in Florida. We turned north just past Tallahassee to get to Tuscaloosa, so I basically had to drive the entire state from south to north. On back roads, not an Interstate.
Olo (#25), I was only 3 or 4 years old then, but I still remember the images on TV. They stick in my mind just as much as watching the moon landing a year later.
Shalimar
says:Then that does suck. I went to college in Tuscaloosa but can’t ever recall listening to the radio there. I was busy building a CD collection that eventually made it over 1200, so we mostly listened to our own music. I lived in Montgomery for 4 years, they had quite a few pop type of stations, adult contemporary, etc., but I thought all of them sucked. Same with Birmingham, they used to have 2 excellent competing classic rock stations, but otherwise it was a wasteland.
agentx
says:I’ve been to AL before but I can’t say I had the experiences you guys have had there. I must’ve gotten lucky on the road that day.
One thing for sure, if I were in that judge’s courtroom as a plaintiff/defendant/lawyer or prosecutor, I would be filing paperwork for appeals as soon as he banged the opening gavel.
where does he think he is, Iran?