Regardless of today’s results, can Clinton catch Obama?

The question seems to have been percolating, just below the surface, for a while now. When Barack Obama won 11 consecutive contests in February, he built up a noticeable lead in the race for delegates. Given that the competition is for delegates, not states, it created the impression that Obama was the frontrunner for the nomination.

But, the Clinton campaign argued, there’s still time and plenty of delegates left, and Clinton has the resources (and the attack ads) to come back and re-take the lead. Is that true? Can Clinton still do well enough to catch Obama in the race for delegates?

Marc Ambinder interviewed himself yesterday afternoon and concluded that it’s still “mathematically possible” for Clinton to win the nomination, but based on “the math alone and a reasonable projection of external events,” it’s unlikely.

Q. But you said it’s possible.

A. Yes. But lots of things have to break her way. If, say, voting ends and the press discovers that Obama has a secret second family in Idaho and all his superdelegates abandon him; if, for some reason, she wins 75% of the popular vote in the states after Ohio and Texas and half the remaining superdelegates; if, by slow attrition, she closes the delegate gap to about 70 and picks off two thirds of the remaining superdelegates; if the pledged (Obama) delegates concur with the credentials committee and seat the (Clintonian) Florida and Michigan delegations — then, yes, it’s possible.

Q. So should she drop out?

A. I don’t know. Obama’s campaign emphasizes the math. The Clinton campaign emphasizes… well, the more external factors.

I’ll concede I haven’t given “the math” too much thought, so I started fiddling with the numbers today, trying to see exactly what kind of odds Clinton is up against. I was a little surprised by the results.

Slate has a fun “Delegate Calculator” in which folks can guess what the results might be in the remaining contests and see how many delegates Clinton and Obama can win. Even assuming a very favorable calendar for Clinton — which seems like a stretch, given likely Obama victories in states like North Carolina — Clinton almost certainly can’t catch up.

I have a hunch Jonathan Chait has been playing with the same calculator.

With the Clinton campaign now saying they will stay in the race even if they lose delegates in Texas, it’s worth putting into perspective just how difficult it would be for them to close Barack Obama’s lead in pledged delegates. For Clinton to pull ahead, she will need to win 57% of the remaining pledged delegates. To keep that number from rising even higher, they of course need to win 57% of the delegates on Tuesday, which would mean getting at least 213 delegates to Obama’s 161 — a 52 delegate advantage. If they net anything below 52 delegates, they fall even further behind. This is the key number to keep in mind when watching the election returns.

And, of course, even netting 52 delegates is hardly a big win. The Clinton campaign picked Texas and Ohio as its battleground because those states are particularly Clinton-friendly. The remaining primary states include several — like Mississippi, Oregon, and North Carolina — where Obama is likely to rack up major wins. That means that Clinton needs to gain well over 57% of the delegates in the states that are better for her. The only way she could possibly do this would be to utterly destroy Obama’s reputation, make him a radioactive figure, like Al Sharpton. This also seems like an extreme longshot, though the Clinton campaign appears to be attempting to pull it off with its flurry of attacks.

The WaPo’s Dan Balz ran the numbers and reached a similar conclusion.

There are 370 pledged delegates at stake today. After Texas, Ohio, Rhode Island and Vermont have been counted, only 611 pledged delegates will be left in the remaining contests. No matter how you run the numbers, the conclusion is always the same: There is virtually no realistic way for Clinton to emerge from the primary-caucus season with more pledged delegates than Obama.

“His delegate advantage is too great, his resource advantage is too powerful and the effect of PR is too much for her to overcome his pledged delegate lead,” wrote Tad Devine, the Democratic strategist who helped create the proportional system that governs the nomination battle.

So, if Clinton has no realistic chance of catching Obama in the delegate race before the convention, why keep fighting? Because of the superdelegates — the Clinton campaign maintains hope that she can keep the race close, and that party insiders will push her over the top this summer.

Of course, in order for that to happen, Clinton will have to make great strides in narrowing Obama’s delegate lead. To do that, narrow victories won’t be good enough for Clinton — she’ll have to start, as early as today, winning by large margins.

Update: Apparently, Newsweek’s Jonathan Alter has been making use of the same Slate Delegate Calculator, and has come to the same conclusion: “For all of those who have been trashing me for saying this thing is over, please feel free to do your own math. Give Hillary 75 percent in Kentucky and Indiana. Give her a blowout in Oregon. You will still have a hard time getting her through the process with a pledged-delegate lead.”

It doesn’t matter. the Empress will still stamp her foot and pout that “It’s my turn!! After all I put up with from that man I deserve it! It’s my turn!! Why can’t you see?”

Hillary Clinton, living proof that in America after 40 years of feminism, a strategic marriage is still the best route to power for a woman. Thus she undermines the women’s movement the way she undermined progressive politics, international trade agreements, worker’s rights to unionize, and universal healthcare in her “35 years of experience.” I think that’s a comprehensive list of “experience” we don’t need any more of.

  • Hopefully the Superdelegates will pull away from Hillary after her recent attacks on Obama. They aren’t all hacks, and they aren’t legally bound. And if it is true that Obama has a group of 50 of them waiting to give him their support, it’s over.

  • Apparently when a reporter asked Hillary’s top aides to list her foreign policy experience, there was five seconds of stunned silence, followed by some ha-hemming-and-hawing and some statement about her general life experience… Laura Bush for President? How about Barbara Bush? Nancy Reagan?

    The longer this Democratic race goes on, the more I detest Hillary and her smearing, sliming, fear-mongering and endless dirty tricks. Remember Don Segretti? One of Nixon’s dirty-tricksters. I guess that the Hillary camp has been reading all of those Nixon team memoirs to pick up some old tricks…

    Go away, Hillary. She will be the first woman to not be elected President.

  • So, if Clinton has no realistic chance of catching Obama in the delegate race before the convention, why keep fighting? Because of the superdelegates — the Clinton campaign maintains hope that she can keep the race close, and that party insiders will push her over the top this summer.

    Party insiders won’t push her over the top. It would split the party and end any chance of putting a Democrat in the White House. She’s done.

  • #4 CJ

    i hope you’re right. if, by some chance, they (the clintons) were able to back-room force their way into the nomination all that ‘hope equity’ goes right out the window. kinda like how bush squandered his 9/11 equity.

  • Message to Obama:

    Start talking aboutt Clinton friggin’ tax returns! Those blue collar workers in PA might not be so inclined to identify with Clinton when they find out that she is very rich and has made a lot of money doing business with a lot of foreigners.

    Bill Clinton is the one who has raked in the big bucks from Muslims. The libray, his foundation, his speeches, his consultancy. But nary a word in the media about it.

    Canadian financial magnates, Central Asian dictators, the company behind the Dubai port deal – Bill Clinton has his hand in lots of questionable activities. I think Hillary ought to put it on the table for Dem voters before the general election but as usual, the Clintons get a pass from the press.

  • Barring a complete collapse, she can’t catch him in pledged delegates. And, if things stay more or less as they are (roughly even, with some states favoring one and other states favoring the other), the superdelegates will simply not be willing to override the results in the pledged delegates.

    But that leaves one scenario: if HRC can convince the superdelegates that BO’s campaign is doomed in the fall, and is in the process of imploding, they might be willing to step in and override the pledged delegate totals. Therefore, in order to win, she must try to do everything possible to not just beat BO at the polls, but destroy his viability in the general election.

    Which just happens to explain her recent actions (e.g., McCain and I both have many years of experience, and all BO’s got is a 2002 speech).

    She has not persuaded me to vote for her (even though I started off this campaign with a fairly favorable opinion), but she may yet persuade me to vote for McCain. This has got to stop.

  • As somebody said in an earlier thread, Hillary is the Democrat’s version of Mike Huckabee (without the class).

  • When is the press going to stop giving Hillary Clinton a free ride? Yes, they were unfairly misogynistic in much of their early coverage but the real Clinton trouble points have been glossed over. They wouldn’t be in the fall. Things like:

    Norman Hsu (makes Rezko look like a choir boy).

    Bill Clinton’s financial conflicts of interest. Why do you think there is no tax return?

    Hugh Rodham’s $400,000 Presidential pardon peddling.

    Attacking Obama’s not having a sub-committee meeting on Europe because Nato is involved, meanwhile she has skipped multiple Armed Forces Committee hearings on Afghanistan.

    I think she’s done a great job working the Refs but I think there is significantly more potential ‘Buyers Remorse’ with Clinton in the fall than there is with Obama.

  • #7 She has already convinced me to either vote 3rd party of for McCain.
    I did not vote for Clinton either time and will change my mind this time.

    Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton?
    What do we have a dual monarchy like Austro-Hungary before WW 1?

    I JUST WANT TO SCREAM!

  • #7 She has already convinced me to either vote 3rd party of for McCain.
    I did not vote for Clinton either time and will change my mind NOT (KEY MISSING WORD!) this time.

    Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton?
    What do we have a dual monarchy like Austro-Hungary before WW 1?

    I JUST WANT TO SCREAM!

  • May I suggest reading digby’s blog on Clinton’s free ride from last night’s post?
    digbysblog.blogspot.com/

  • I think it’s important to note that Slate’s delegate calculator doesn’t (to my knowledge) take into account the system by which delegates are awarded in, say, Texas. It’s possible that the final split of delegates will not reflect the popular vote, so Clinton could come away with the lead in the popular vote, but still lose in terms of delegates–or vice versa. It also doesn’t appear to take into account the fact that Texas is part primary, part caucus (or, as I was reminded by a native Texan the other day, “precinct conventions”).

    That said, I do agree with your overall analysis.

  • Don’t worry. Mary will be along any minute to assert that math has a well-known Obama bias.

  • Apparently when a reporter asked Hillary’s top aides to list her foreign policy experience…

    Did they have to ask from the bathroom?

    Ridiculous.

  • I gave TX a 50/50 result and every other state 60/40 Clinton wins. In that scenario, she’s ahead by less than 10 delegates.

    Time for some Huck-a-math?

  • Well, Hillary has a better chance than Huckabee.

    The math is about the quality of Rove’s The Math right now. Hopefully things will get cleared up today. You can spot the Lama Obama people as opposed to the regular Obama people by their certainty about the math.

  • Clinton’s BFFs have formed 527, American Leadership Project (ALP), on 2/15/08. On its website, ALP promises to disclose the names of every donor contributing $1,000 or more within 24 hours. To date, no names have been disclosed.

    ALP is already running what are probably illegal pro-Clinton ads in Texas. Given the relatively low FEC fines for illegal campagin activity and the length of time it takes the FEC to investigate complaints, ALP is willing to take the hit.

    My guess is that ALP is funded by wealthy Clinton donors who have already maxed out on donations to her campaign.

    ALP president, Roger Salazar, is a former member of the Clinton administration.

    Sleazy stuff.

  • There are 2 scenarios in which Hillary can ‘win’.

    Scenario 1: Slash & Burn – Destroy Obama & get the nomination

    Scenario 2: Slash & Burn – Destroy Obama & get McCain the Presidency & get Hillary the nomination in 2012

    Results of Scenario 1: Maybe Hillary can win the presidency with a bare electoral college victory.

    Results of Scenario 2: Maybe Hillary can get the nomination in 2012 of the remaining shell of the Dumbocrat party.

    Results of either Scenario: The destruction of the Dimocratic Party. This may be the only good thing that she can accomplish. As the collaborators in Congress (lead by Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid) & the triangulators of the DLC have continued to prove, the Dumbocrat party leadership has no soul.

    Originally an Edwards supporter, I have ‘bought into the belief’ that a ground up change can be done. All that the Repugnicans & the DLC Dimocrats can offer is ‘top down destroy all opposition’ ‘leadership’. Our country needs a change of leadership mentality & it will not get it from the Clintonistas & the DLC & the Rethugs.

    It is about time for another revolution – at least in the way that politics is done.

  • Addition to The Other Ed @ 9:

    The $35 Million question – if the Clintons were broke & $10 Million in debt 7 years ago, where did the $35 Million come from that Hillary lists in Senate records as her net worth (not including Bill’s)???

    Of course, this does relate to the tax returns – doesn’t it…

  • Republicans are gleeful seeing Obama win. Obama is yet to face republican gunfire. Look at how Obama reacted to the 3am ad. Very defensively.

    While HIllary splits republican voters..Obama is going to come across as a leftist weak commander-in-chief..

    vote hillary if u want a democrat in the white house.

  • I think that more important than experience is integrity and I think that now more than ever that is what is lacking. I am sure that the issues Sen. Obama is experiencing now will all come to pass.
    As he is a praying man and a Christian I no he believes that ‘No Weapon held against him shall prosper.
    EE

  • Obama is getting vetted now. I’m worried that he hasn’t caught a good news cycle in two days leading up to the primaries. What can he do?

  • (21) So ya’ think that’s why Rush is telling his minions to vote for Hillary? Or maybe why Chris Matthews and the rest of MSNBC, CNN and Fox are complaining how badly “the media” is treating her? Good call TR (14)

  • Let’s open the window and let some of the Hillary hate out of the room.

    OK, now that we’ve done that, let’s get back to perceptions of the superdelegates and how it would affect their voting. If Hillary wins Texas and Ohio, goes on to win Pa., she is going to have swept up most of the big blue states, having already won New York, California, New Jersey, Massachusetts, etc. Maybe they’ll have a re-vote in Florida, the Republican Governor, Crist, already said he’d favor it. (Maybe he wants to keep the Dem race going, of course, but here we’re talking about possible scenarios.) Hillary “won” Florida once, when they were both on the ballot, if she puts together a win streak she could well do it again. She will have a strong argument that Democrats in states that have been the backbone of the Democratic vote in past elections favor her. That should count for something.

    Of course if Obama keeps his win streak going that scenario fails. But what makes all the Obama supporters assume that a majority of superdelegates will break toward Obama if Hillary puts together a series of wins in the rest of the big states?

  • Also, Obama has so called 50 super delegates in his pocket that will probably announce shortly after Tuesday and probably Bill Richardson and other partly leaders will want to settle this thing. So I don’t think it’ll go much further in spite of what Clinton is saying.

  • Dale, he can stay above the fray. While I do believe he should have a few O-Bombas to drop, my entire faith in him is based on one fact: he does not stoop. There’s certainly enough bloggers and floggers out here to do the dirty work if necessary. His message should remain clean and clear. The Hillaristas want him to wallow. I want my President above all that. For once. Just once!

    (o hell there I go swooning again!)

  • If Hillary wins Texas and Ohio, goes on to win Pa., she is going to have swept up most of the big blue states… -pfgr

    What does winning ‘blue’ states have to do with anything? I despise that blue/red black and white world anyway. Yeah, it’s digital when the votes are tallied, but a lot of those ‘red’ states have been leaning Democratic since 2006. Might be nice to put up the candidate who hasn’t dismissed them as unimportant states and try to flip some.

    I simply don’t see any of these scenarios where Clinton is on top playing out to a victory in November, and I don’t mean just for President; I mean down ballot on key Congressional races.

  • HIllaySupporter—Obama has already taken the opening salvos from MaCain, and thrown them back in his face. Hillary just babbles on about how McCain’s lifetime of experience would make him a good president. How does it feel to know that “your candidate” is shilling for the “presumptive” GOP nominee?”

    Once a GOP-enabling, common-sense-rejecting triangulator, always a GOP-enabling, common-sense rejecting triangulator, I suppose….

  • What makes all the Obama supporters assume that a majority of superdelegates will break toward Obama if Hillary puts together a series of wins in the rest of the big states?

    First, it has nothing to do with being an Obama supporter. It has to do with arithmetic.

    Florida or no Florida, she cannot overcome Obama’s lead in pledged delegates between now and the convention…even with victories in Texas, Ohio and Rhode Island.

    At the convention, the super delegate will not buy the big blue state argument…simply because its lame. The blue states will go to either candidate in November. Its the increasing number of purple states to be concerned about (Obama’s strength).

    In addition, when Obama gets to the convention with the most pledged delegates, the super delegates know perfectly well that they’ll split the party if the give the nomination to the person with the least votes and the least pledged delegates.

    Hillary’s finished.

  • Dan Balz’s 8 questions that potentially answers today’s primaries is the same number of questions Obama fielded regarding new information about his dealings with Rezko and Canadian officials. Then Obama left in a huff (or was that a minute and a huff?). And everybody thinks McCain has a temper. Between Clinton getting emotional (crying) about how this campaign is affecting her, and Obama not able to handle himself when answering real questions that Americans have the right to have answers on instead of those he wants the media to ask, I’m still trying to figure out when either of these two will ever show any leadership, especially since being President will require one to deal with far rougher individuals than those that are in the media (Clinton never had to deal with these kind of people as First Lady, the job she says gives her an edge in experience, except she still can’t handle being in a political campaign). I’m talking about the type of people who will crush Obama or Clinton since they don’t know how to exhibit leadership.

    By the way, don’t cover for Obama saying he was “already scheduled” for another event (which wasn’t going to D.C. to do his job as a Senator). Doesn’t work that way. Presidents can blow off the media, but Obama ain’t the President yet.

  • Newsweek: “Hillary’s Math Problem. Forget tonight. She could win 16 straight and still lose…no matter how you cut it, Obama will almost certainly end the primaries with a pledged-delegate lead, courtesy of all those landslides in February. Hillary would then have to convince the uncommitted superdelegates to reverse the will of the people. Even coming off a big Hillary winning streak, few if any superdelegates will be inclined to do so. For politicians to upend what the voters have decided might be a tad, well, suicidal.”

  • Half of you talk and don’t know what your talking about and the other half of Obama supporters think they are playing tiddly-winks or something. Politics is a contact sport and the toughest usually come out on top.

    Quit your whining

  • I hope that they end getting rid of the DNC and go back to winner take all and this would have been over on Feb 5

  • SteveIL,

    You can slam Obama till the cows come home, but as others have pointed out, he’s your Democratic nominee. It’s time to make a choice between him and McCain. Should be a no-brainer.

  • Obama just ask the Sec of State in Ohio to keep polls open until 9:30 PM because of weather and she has as of yet refused claiming no legal justification

  • Presidents can blow off the media, but Obama ain’t the President yet. -SteveIL

    Well, not yet, not until January, 2009.

    Oh, and if we’re going to make up bogus standards like that, asshat, then let’s hold all your Republicans buddies to the same standards. Until they are President, they can’t ‘blow off the media.’

    Obama has answered questions about Rezko since his Senate campaign against Keyes; he’s certainly well within his rights, like any American to not answer the media’s queries, and it is especially prudent when there is an ongoing investigation.

    Even Bush understands that, but then again he’s smarter than you.

  • Obama just ask the Sec of State in Ohio to keep polls open until 9:30 PM because of weather and she has as of yet refused claiming no legal justification -Jim

    Oh, dear spaghetti monster, no! What a terrible thing! I can’t believe we allow this man to even be a citizen, let alone a contender for President of the United States.

    I mean, honestly, trying to increase access to the polls and ensure everyone has a chance to vote! Why, it’s downright Communist of him! There’s no way a Commie will get my vote, right Jim!

    Guys don’t crown your guy the nominee it isn’t over until the convention… -Jim

    Read the following with a British accent please (cockney preferably):

    Ya know Jim, ‘ere in America we fought a little war to avoid ‘crowning’ anyone, and I think that there may ‘even be some backlash against Senator Clinton because of the appearance of a pendulum dynasty.

    So I appreciate the subtle dig, I do, but mostly because it is so silly it makes me a little sad for you. Sorry Clinton didn’t win. Cheers.

  • Jim,

    Get a freaking life, child. The contingency to keep the polls open in the event of weather problems came up last week in Columbus. It wasn’t Obama that opened the can of worms; it was Strickland and his “pet SoS.”. They saw the long-range forecasts for possible ice and freezing rain today, and floated the idea to allow extra time to deal with travel problems. (That was last week, when Hillary’s lead was fading fast—and Strickland’s already announced he’ll vote Clinton at the convention, no matter how well Obama does). Now that things have turned in favor of Hillary, I imagine they’d like to close up shop right now, rather than push on until 7:30.

    The only real difference between Ohio’s “last” administration and “this” one is how the political identity is presented. They rolled the (R) upside down, broke off the leg, and got a (d). Same big fat deficit; same pipe-dream promises; same catering to the corporate community at the expense of the poor, and the kids, and the elderly, and the families.

  • Jason in Pennsylvania, neither Obama or Hillary is any kind of pol I would vote for…I don’t vote for socialists. McCain isn’t my first choice either, but he’s a dream candidate compared to Obama and Hillary.

  • Obama has answered questions about Rezko since his Senate campaign against Keyes; he’s certainly well within his rights, like any American to not answer the media’s queries, and it is especially prudent when there is an ongoing investigation. doubtful, he hasn’t answered any new questions since Rezko’s trial didn’t start until yesterday, and it seems to be related to the Canada thing. Besides, he doesn’t have to answer legal questions regarding Rezko or possibly himself (you are right about that). However, he’s been dancing around his relationship with Rezko and should explain it in its entirety, and do so for political purposes. If there is a hint of impropriety, it doesn’t matter what happens to him legally down the road; politically, it should and will cost him votes.

    As far as Obama’s campaign against Keyes in ’04, the media had already helped Obama by wrecking the campaigns of Obama’s real opponents, who were caught up in scurrilous and unsubstantiated hints of impropriety. Neither actually had done anything wrong, but one lost big in the primary (he had been ahead in the polls) and the other bowed out of the race after the media created the “scandal”; Keyes was a bogus choice to end up running against Obama for the Senate since he wasn’t from Illinois in the first place. Hey, it’s what can happen in a campaign. Now Obama is facing the same music his past opponents have had to face. And he is showing the “leadership” he’s always shown as a politician: none at all.

  • When Clinton said she was just getting started, she apparently wasn’t kidding. Supposedly, she’s now running “fake news” ads in Ohio. Here’s the script as reported by Mark Halperin on his page at TIME:

    This is an election news update with a major news story reported by the AP. While Senator Obama has crisscrossed Ohio giving speeches attacking NAFTA, his top economic advisor was telling the Canadians that was all just political maneuvering. A newly released document from the Canadian government shows that Obama’s senior economic advisor met with the Canadian Consul General and made clear that Obama’s attack on NAFTA were just, quote, “political maneuvering,” not policy. Political maneuvering, not policy. In fact, the document shows that Obama’s advisor also assured the Canadians that these attacks against NAFTA would not continue. Obama would not want to be, quote, “fundamentally changing the agreement.” As Senator Obama was telling one story to Ohio, his campaign was telling a very different story to Canada. How will Ohioans decide whether they can believe Senator Obama’s words? We’ll find that out on election day. Paid for by Hillary Clinton for President.

    Sounds like a perfect follow-up to the bullshit of the Bush administration.

  • Obama is doomed, cannot win in November, and until recently he was not given any kind of scrutiny from the media. Now that he is the front-runner, it is obvious that he cannot handle it.

    The ads run by Clinton are MILD compared to what you should expect from McCain, so stop whining about it and remember that experience really does matter to most Americans, WAKE UP!!

    Now that I have your attention, feel free to bash me as usual for trying to inject some reality into your dreams.

  • maybe…she should stay in the race regardless.

    BTW guys I found some brilliant/awesome analysis on Obama’s Fundraising and other current happenings on the campaign. I haven’t seen anything like this mentioned anywhere in the MSM.
    Check out the article “Follow the Money” on http://savagepolitics.com/?p=165, “Bush’s Twin and the G.O.P.” http://savagepolitics.com/?p=172 and “Barack Obama’s Apotasy” http://savagepolitics.com/?p=101

    Check their “Political Analysis” and “Humor” sections for other striking perspectives and comedic analysis on both parties.

  • How about this…..forget the election today….let’s just go back to the economy when Bill Clinton was in office. Sure he screwed everything with pants BUT the economy damn sure was in a much better state than it is now THANK YOU Mr. Dumb a** Bush……He”s an embarrassment to our nation.

    And if I recall pretty accurately…..The rucus used to be that “Billary” was running the country it was actually her making all the decisions. SO why not let her do it again. Maybe we will have more jobs like before, unemployment will be the lowest in history, geee I don’t think gas prices were as high as they are now, we were virtually deficit free and as I recall we weren’t fighting a civil war half way around the world that dates back thousands of year we can’t win!! WTF is wrong with you people?

    Rush out and vote for Obama….Change we need change…..He talks in circles and never gives details. He oopenly says he has no experience…. All debates he rides rides HIllarys coattails…WTF????? I’m so glad we can rest easy….we are entering 4 MORE years of hell.

    Open your eyes America. We’re so desperate for change we’ll vote anyone in office….Someone that has no experience that’s even better…..4 years I will be living in Europe on a beach somewhere drinking fine wine because this shithole won’t be woth living in….and all of you people vote Obama in…go right ahead…

  • SteveIL: “…neither Obama or Hillary is any kind of pol I would vote for…I don’t vote for socialists.

    SteveIL has shown his true colors. Red, red and red. He’s a fascist troll.

    Move along Benito.

  • SteveIL has shown his true colors. Red, red and red. He’s a fascist troll. I would say that some “liberals” probably consider their hero Joe Stalin to be a right-wing fascist. For me, I’m an American.

  • …Rezko’s trial didn’t start until yesterday… -dunderhead

    No, jury selection started. And it is always prudent not to speak to the press about an ongoing investigation/trial.

    And you’re blaming the media for ruining Jack Ryan’s campaign? I think Jack was glad to have the press about taking his wife to sex clubs despite her protests. Gave him a good reason to drop out and not have his ass handed to him by Obama, who was polling 20 points higher than him.

    Ah, you do so make me laugh.

    Now that I have your attention, feel free to bash me as usual for trying to inject some reality into your dreams. -Greg

    SHIT! Greg said Obama can’t win in November. Fuck, I’ve been sitting her thinking he could, but since Greg said he couldn’t, man, what am I going to do. Oh no, I already voted in my primary. Take it back, take it back!

    Greg’s word is all I need to base my decision on. Evidence is for pinkos.

    C’mon people, like Greg says, WAKE UP!!!!

  • For me, I’m an American. -SteveIL

    Haha. Oh man, make it stop. Metal boy here believes corporations should be immune from lawsuits it the government says it’s okay, but he claims to be an American. You don’t even know what it means to be an American you stain. You’re shtick is tired.

  • So if Clinton trails Obama by say, 150 delegates out of 1500, she should drop out?
    Wouldn’t that disenfranchise all of us who voted for her?

  • So if Clinton trails Obama by say, 150 delegates out of 1500, she should drop out? Wouldn’t that disenfranchise all of us who voted for her?

    The answer to Nell’s first question is yes, if she can’t catch up (and she can’t), then she should drop out.

    The answer to Nell’s second question is no. The person with the most elected delegates and most popular votes wins. That’s democracy sister.

  • It doesn’t matter when Obama gets elected into office he will seal his own destiny. He’ll end up like JFK and Reagan someone will eventually put a bullet in him. The economy will be in a depression and not a recession like it is now. People think that we are heading for a recession. Look around folks were in the dead center of it. Our economy is in the toilet and we elect some idiot with no experience to fix it..DESPERATE TIMES CALL FOR DESPERATE MEASURES RIGHT?….then America gets mad because were worse off than ever…then it becomes a racial thing….undoing what has been accomplished for years….Obama is doomed….if he was as smart as he claims to be, he would have waited till he had more experience…..But as I said….I will be taking up a fine glass of wine on the beach in Europe somewhere when our economy goes to hell in a hand basket in the next 4 years!!

  • And you’re blaming the media for ruining Jack Ryan’s campaign? Uh, yeah! Those allegations were made at the time of the divorce, in the heat of a custody battle. Which, by the way, Jack Ryan won. Reading is something “liberals” need to do more of, at least reading things that one can learn from, unlike anything from other “liberals”.

    I wonder what low-down, no-good, dirty SOB, possibly someone with a history of voter disenfranchisement, would have gotten the Chicago media to go look at those records of Jack Ryan’s? Hmmm, I wonder.

  • SteveIL: “I’m an American.

    …and Mussolini was an Italian.

    SteveIL — still fascist.

  • SteveIL — still fascist. I do enjoy when real fascists, “liberals”, attempt to put their attributes on others. And then get caught doing so. It is to laugh.

  • There is also the possibility that Obama will self destruct before the convention. He hasn’t been properly vetted. The media is just starting to investigate his past and there may be something there that will be fatal to his chances (much as was found for McCain when it was already too late to do anything about it).

    Calling Clinton’s ad “fake news” doesn’t make it an attempt to pretend to be news. It refers to previously reported news accounts that Obama would prefer to suppress. The ad does not pretend to be any reporter or any channel or any news station or program. An announcer referring to previously reported AP news accounts is not automatically “fake news” unless Obama’s folks are trying to smear Clinton’s campaign again.

  • SteveIL,

    The Palmer thing (which you must’ve just discovered since you’ve posted it multiple times in the last hour, like a Timmeh ‘gotcha’) is bunk. Palmer hand picked Obama to run for her seat, then she lost the election she left her seat for, and then she expected Obama to step aside for her. When he didn’t, she came up with some bogus petitions to try to get on the ballot and Obama challenged them in court.

    Hardly dirty politics. In fact, one might suggest the faulty petitions were a better example of dirty politics. Sorry, but in this case, Obama was clearly in the right. No ‘gotcha’ for you.

    And the Ryan records were sealed at the time of the divorce. Both Jack and Jeri had to elect to make them public, which they did. Honestly, I don’t understand why he’d want to do that when he was running for public office, unless as I said earlier, he wanted an easy out from the race to avoid the ass-thumping he was going to get from Obama.

    Blaming the media is so silly in this case, unless you’re claiming the Ryan’s worked for the media.

    The fact that Keyes was the best replacement they could find speaks volumes about how the GOP conceded that race to the far superior candidate.

    Nice try, but you’re 0 for 2. Well, 0 for 2 in that comment. You’re overall tally is so much worse, it’s embarrassing.

    And you’re not an American. You’re a sick asshole.

  • doubtful,

    I found the Alice Palmer story over two weeks ago. She didn’t believe they were bogus; and Obama took it to the courts instead of challenging her one-on-one (and she hasn’t talked to him in 12 years because of it). That is the modus operandi he seems to employ (after all, it took the media to get the courts to release Hull’s and Ryan’s records, when some unknown person told them to do so). In fact, the only one-on-one election battle Obama was in was with Danny Davis in a primary for Davis’ House seat. Know what happened? Obama lost. It was the only one that didn’t involve the courts. Go figure.

    Both Jack and Jeri had to elect to make them public, which they did. No, again. The Chicago media got an LA judge to force those records open (that is also in my post above); the Ryans, and definitely Jack Ryan, did not want those records opened. So saying otherwise is not working with the facts. See, reading only the works of other “liberals” cannot possibly teach anyone anything about anything.

    The fact that Keyes was the best replacement they could find speaks volumes about how the GOP conceded that race to the far superior candidate Actually, conservative Illinoisans, including yours truly, were pissed at the Illinois GOP for putting up Keyes at all. They didn’t even try to find a decent replacement. They did concede it, and I never denied it.

    Nice try, but you’re 0 for 2. Well, 0 for 2 in that comment. You’re overall tally is so much worse, it’s embarrassing. Actually, I’m still waiting for any “liberal” to come to the plate on anything that has to do with facts. The idea that Ryan wanted his own custody hearing records open, the ones he and the ex had sealed, is an utter display of demagoguery. And you got burned.

    And Obama is as dirty as any Chicago Democrat. Period.

  • Although I hope she does not catch up in delegates, she has the superdelegates supporting her. The old crooked institutioners are sitting ideally by and make the final vote, since the Democratic voters cannot.
    Obama has both the Clinton and the McCann camp going after him, which will make it a sure win for McCain.
    It’s ironic that even when the Republicans are down in popularity, the Democratics are unfortunately not bright enough to gather their troops to look at the long-term win by selecting Obama. Everyone is very short sited.
    I’m an Obamacan and if Obama doesn’t win neither will the Democrats.

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