Republicans’ bizarre visions of healthcare

Karen Tumulty notes that Rudy Giuliani — who not only received free, taxpayer-financed healthcare when diagnosed with cancer, but also “recently turned around his chartered jet to seek emergency medical treatment” — was asked why Republican presidential hopefuls aren’t talking about healthcare in their campaigns.

“I suspect that our Democratic colleagues would get that question more often in a Democratic audience than we get in a Republican audience,” he said. “Maybe more Democrats are concerned about their health care than Republicans, maybe because Republicans have health care or maybe Republicans generally like the idea of private solutions.”

It’s a reminder that when it comes to Giuliani’s capacity to sound like a buffoon, there are no limits.

But more importantly, it’s also a reminder of why Republican candidates really aren’t talking about healthcare in their campaigns: they know their plans don’t help people.

Workers like [Dena Roach, who can barely afford her employer-subsidized premiums] want insurance that stays affordable, and the Republican presidential candidates say the best way is to give individuals tax breaks to help pay for coverage. Critics, including Democrats who advocate a broader government role, say these plans won’t hold down rising costs, much less put a dent in the 47 million uninsured Americans.

“As laid out, the candidates’ proposals don’t fully address the problems of affordability, access to coverage and cost,” Roberton Williams, principal research associate at the Washington-based Tax Policy Center, a joint venture of the Urban Institute and Brookings Institution, said in a Dec. 24 interview.

So, when it comes to GOP healthcare plans, if you overlook the fact that the uninsured will stay that way, and those with insurance will still struggle with exorbitant costs, and the fact that tax credits won’t stop insurers from raising rates, then sure, the Republicans are offering great policies.

What’s more, it’s worth remembering this LAT piece from a month ago in which we learned that Giuliani, McCain, and Fred Thompson could be denied healthcare insurance under their own healthcare plans.

All three have offered proposals with the stated aim of helping the 47 million people in the U.S. who have no health insurance, including those with preexisting medical conditions. But under the plans all three have put forward, cancer survivors such as themselves could not be sure of getting coverage — especially if they were not already covered by a government or job-related plan and had to seek insurance as individuals.

“Unless it’s in a state that has very strong consumer protections, they would likely be denied coverage,” said economist Paul Fronstin of the Employee Benefit Research Institute, who has reviewed the candidates’ proposals. “People with preexisting conditions would not be able to get coverage or would not be able to afford it.”

It offers a helpful contrast between the downsides of the two parties’ approaches to healthcare. The problem with the Dems’ plans is that they’re expensive. The problem with the Republicans’ policies is that sick people of modest means can’t get health insurance.

The Republican presidential hopefuls seem to realize that their plans leave millions of vulnerable Americans behind, but also realize that the alternative is government regulation — specifically, telling insurers that they can’t exclude people with pre-existing conditions, and can’t price these people out of coverage. Given a choice between a large gap of uninsured and government-imposed safeguards for Americans, the GOP candidates prefer the prior.

I have to assume that any voter who cares about healthcare and backs Republican candidates just isn’t paying attention.

Of course rudy and the repug gang of thieves like the current healthcare system – with the help of the MSM, they are always “catapulting the propaganda” up your ass and yet the sheeple ignore the pain, swelling, bloating, and constipation and continue to come back for more. To the criminal cabal behind this administration, its “mission accomplished” indeed.

  • An old friend of my wife came to visit last year. He is suffering from severe depression because of his untreated diabetes. He has trouble holding down even a minimum wage job because he doesn’t show up at work when he is depressed.

    I asked him why he doesn’t get his medical condition treated and he told me that he can’t afford it.

    Why don’t you go to the free clinic or get aid from the city or the local hospital charity? — I don’t believe in accepting charity and I don’t want any government handouts.

    Why don’t you want any government hand outs? — Rush Limbaugh says that everyone can make it on their own in this country and they don’t need any help from the government.

    I don’t think that is what Rush says. I think it would help you a lot if you got your medical problems under control. Then you could get a good job and afford your own health insurance. — I listen to him everyday. I know what he says and he is a really smart man.

    He left a few days later and did accept $100 from me for the work that he did. I haven’t heard from his since then.

    Maybe Guiliani is correct. Republicans don’t really care about the health care mess in this country. I know at least one DittoHead who doesn’t think we have a problem with our current health care/

  • As long as Americans’ don’t start getting “propaganda-you-ass-ectomy”, US healthcare is doing what it was designed to do:

    DIVIDE, TERRORIZE, AND CONQUOR THE MASSES AND PREVENT AN HONEST DIALOG OF THE REAL ISSUES FACING THIS NATION!

  • “But more importantly, it’s also a reminder of why Republican candidates really aren’t talking about healthcare in their campaigns: they know their plans don’t help people.”

    That puts this issue in its larger context. Republicans don’t think that the government has any business helping people. That would make government bigger, not smaller, and we all know that government needs to be small enough to drown in Grover Norquist’s bathtub.

    For the sake of truth in advertising, Republicans should rename their party “Idolaters of the Invisible Hand.” They’ve never seen a problem that they don’t believe their beloved Free Market could solve, no matter what the evidence to the contrary. Sensible economists have written volumes on why “market-based” approaches to accessing health care have never worked and never will. Every other first-world country knows that. That’s why the USA has the greatest health care in the world – but only if you can afford it. No sane person would argue that we have the greatest health care system in the world.

    And how will Republican “tax incentives” work when we adopt the zany “fair tax” national sales tax that most of them support? How will their tax incentives add to tax simplification to which they all pay lip service? (Oh, right. Consistency has never been terribly important to them.

    Anyone who believes that government has no role to play in health care or anything else except waging war should definitely vote Republican. You have an excellent crop of presidential candidates to choose from.

  • “the Republican presidential candidates say the best way is to give individuals tax breaks to help pay for coverage”

    that’s the republicans’ solution to every problem – tax breaks. of course, they fail to tell people that the only ones who really benefit from tax breaks are the very wealthy……oh, yeah, mostly republicans……..

  • Unfortunately, and for the numptieth time, the American people are not listening to reason – are not interested in hearing from elitists who took the trouble to get an education and actually know what they’re talking about. Bush was so successful (???) with that “gotta go with my gut” policy because enough of the electorate to elect Republicans time and time again thinks the same way. Giuliani in particular, and all the Republican candidates in general, can spout the worst sort of twaddle without any facts to back it up, and few if any will question it. It’s much more pleasant to believe that former mayor Giuliani can cut taxes even further while pulling wads of money from his ass to cover any shortfall, plus a generous bonus for all the happy workers in Rudyland.

  • There are a number of misconceptions at work here. The fact is that too many people are listening to what Republicans say and not watching what they do. Actions speak louder, friends and neighbors.

    They only want smaller government for Big Business and investors; that’s deregulation, no accountability and no oversight. (For a look into the outcome of this scenario, I direct your attention to the subprime mortgage crisis which threatens, no kidding, the global economy…) For citizens of modest means–that’s you and I–they want BIGGER government: More surveillence powers, more police, more prisons, the Patriot Act and so on. Consider the fact that we have, at present, a higher percentage of our population behind bars than any other nation on the face of the Earth.

    The right has no intention of offering any healthcare plan which would mitigate the raking in of outrageous profits by Big Pharma and Big Insurance, two of their largest contributors. They couch this in terns of ideology but it is not…it’s simple greed. They are being handsomely paid to maintain the status quo. They do not care about anyone or anything except themselves. Of course, they can NEVER say that out loud because no one would vote for them again for any office. Ever.
    But that’s where the truth begins. Conservatism, at its dark and ugly heart, is anti-democracy and un-American and foundationed upon deception.

    Think I’m kidding? Try a book entitled The Price of Right by Alicia Morgan.

  • Rudy says, in a shocking moment of candor: “Maybe more Democrats are concerned about their health care than Republicans, maybe because Republicans have health care or maybe Republicans generally like the idea of private solutions.”

    Yep. Rethugs have healthcare , they are in the lifeboat, and couldn’t care less to even feign concern about those on the sinking ship. True to type. Simply and honestly put.

  • I hate this debate; we are speaking completely different languages, and while I think some have made an attempt to learn enough of the other language to understand the arguments, there is no willingness to move from deeply entrenched positions.

    I don’t know what is so hard to understand about the fact that a healthy populace is more economically viable. That healthy kids learn better, and better educated kids have better lives. That not insuring everyone doesn’t save anyone any money, because the costs of caring for the chronically ill, or those who develop acute conditions, are passed on to all of us who do have insurance.

    Don’t get me wrong – people do have a responsibility to contribute to the effort, but I do not understand those who would punish children who are not responsible for the decisions or situations of their parents.

    I’m especially disgusted by the elitist attitudes of the Giuliani-types, and I would like to suggest that perhaps those who have the money to pay full price for their health care ought not to be subjecting others in their insurance plan to the risks and the costs of their very expensive medical conditions.

    Angel of Mercy makes excellent points – that the GOP favors eliminating government that helps people, but can’t make the government big enough to make sure they know every move we make, every conversation we have, books we read, places we shop, and want especially to use government in the most personal and private aspects of our lives.

    It’s all about money, and after years of feeding at the trough that the health care industry has kept nice and full in thanks for the huge profits made possible by favorable legislation, there is no way they are going to allow anything that gets in the way of that.

  • Why would someone believe the government has no business helping people when the government is of the people, by the people, for the people? They act as if the government is some alien entity when it is us.
    Simple: if water costs $100 dollars to get it to your house and only you pay it then you pay $100. If 10000 people live at your house and only 70000 can help pay the $100 it becomes extremely affordable for all and no one goes without. This is our country run by us and a few greedy people have been screwing over us for a long while now. Health care is a right in this country not a privilege.

    btw***Kucinich’s health care plan is not expensive. The actual costs are far below what we are actually paying now per person for rising health care costs. Everyone, except private ins companies, benefits, including businesses who no longer have to provide health care ins to employees which would result in pay increases and bonuses. The Kucinich plan is not complicated and could be fully functioning within 3mos…the same amount of time it would take him to get our troops out of Iraq.

    There are sinister reasons why big pharm and private health ins cos have 5 lobbyists for every member of congress and why they contribute (bribe) huge donations to all the legislators because it takes this mammoth effort to keep screwing the American Public out of billions. Now that it has been brought to our attention…WTF? $1.7Billion in compensation benefits in McGuire’s compensation package? What happened to not for profit hospitals and clinics? Why are fortunes being made off of our illnesses? Why are the same medicines being sold for $25 in other countries being sold for $125 here. Not for profit doesn’t mean ‘inefficient’.
    Republicans and many Dems of the ‘money’ party are only looking at the profits to be made and are totally insensitive to our national health. One hospital equipment supplier making billions went hysterical when another “new” supplier who demonstrated how he could save the hospitals millions a year tried to compete and suddenly the DoJ sent an appointed USA in to block and stop the business and the next thing you know there are 3 dead assistant USAs and (see Brad blog) the company is stopped in its tracks. Profiteering off our healthcare system is the republican health care plan. Its time is at an end.

  • “I have to assume that any voter who cares about healthcare and backs Republican candidates just isn’t paying attention.”

    I used to think so when I lived in New Jersey, but after nine years in Idaho, I don’t anymore. You can’t believe how many millions of working poor Americans buy into all the Republican propaganda about how evil government is and how real people do without government, except, of course, to fight wars, drugs, crime, abortion, terrorism and atheism.

    You just can’t reach these people. They don’t want anything to do with those evil Democrats, those socialists, those communists, those atheists, those godless baby killers, those tree huggers, those gay life style proselytizers, those limousine liberals, those welfare queens, those evolutionists, those egghead elitists, ad nauseum.

    They have been thoroughly indoctrinated over the last quarter century, and I mean thoroughly.

    And that’s why we can’t get anything done in this country.

  • At first I thought, Wow, what a great campaign theme — if any of Rudy, Fred or McCain is nominated, we can say that he would be denied coverage under his own plan!

    Then I realized that any mention of this would provoke the Wellstone Memorial/Cheney daughter/Kerry Joke/MoveOn ad kneejerk reaction: “How dare you use his cancer as a campaign ploy.” (reaching for the smelling salts.)

  • “It’s a reminder that when it comes to Giuliani’s capacity to sound like a buffoon, there are no limits.”

    Hahahahahah! Very true.

  • So what all of you dim wits want is a communist country where we the people have no money because we have to give it all to the government to pay for our healthcare and fund all these programs to keep everyone from doing stupid things that might hurt them or others and hand out birth control to 10 year olds (which we pay for) . Lets all follow the example of the idiots in California and teach our kids how to be gay.

    WHAT HAPPENED TO COMMON SENSE the government is not here to do everything fo us!!!!!!!!!!!

    I’m a democrat but not for long and people like you are the reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Hi:
    I am very lucky to have moved to Canada 7 years ago. My late wife was in the hospital for 13 weeks at one time and it was all paid for. The cost we pay is no more then we would pay for Medicare and a supplement. If you need immediate care or surgery, you receive it. I am able to go to my doctor as much as I need him and my pills after a small deductible are free. The US should only be so smart to get a plan as good as Canada’s.

    Len Jaffe

  • It’s a shame that politicians don’t understand common economics. That’s what’s missing in our health care system. The big claims are and should continue to be paid by insurance companies. The small claims are the ones that are being abused. Doctors do not compete and consumers do not shop for the best value. Ask any health insurance company where most of the money goes. Go ahead and ask. Solution: Deductibles in the $2,000 to $5,000 range. Get the consumer involved.

  • “I have to assume that any voter who cares about healthcare and backs Republican candidates just isn’t paying attention.”

    Quite the contrary. I care about healthcare and am backing Ron Paul. The problem I have with listening to Hilary-Obama-Edwards quibble about the details of their plans for the federal government to save everyone and make it better is that it’s a lot like arguing about how to best re-arrange the deck chairs on the Titanic as it’s going down. Our government is the biggest debtor the planet has ever seen. I find that embarrassing. We simply do not have the money to spend to do all these wonderful sounding things. If they wanted to be real and say “I will give insurance and health care to all Americans, but I will have to double or triple your yearly tax bill” then I could at least listen. Otherwise it’s really all nonsense to me. I’m by no means trying to say that the republican party is any better – Reagan started this whole spending spree, Bush, Clinton, and Bush II carried it on. We need to change.

  • The REAL issue in healthcare is the screaming LOW quality of service rendered.. If you start by looking into the qualitative scores across the board for care, you’ll find an uncomfortable truth. The New England Journal of Medicine published a study last year – http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/354/11/1147 – that places the overall rating at 54.9%. A RAND survey done a few years back gives a 55% score.

    No one, and I mean NO ONE wants to wear the fact that these abysmally low numbers represent the insurance industry controlling EVERY aspect of the medical industry – from the LIABILITY insurance restrictions that keep hospitals from authorizing care ‘outside’ protocols, to the MALPRACTICE insurance that keeps doctors following similar ‘jellybean’ trails of protocols and finally the HEALTHCARE insurance industry covering (or not, as in the case of the 17 year old killed by Cigna Insurance last week) only specific procedures – again, based on ‘protocols’. Protocols mind you, that serve only a bottom line of profit, NOT the best suited needs for the patient.

    Look to the studies!

    To see the truth, pay attention that it is the uninsured who get better care than the affluent or the insured – a statistically minor difference to be sure, but indicative of the fact that the uninsured are generally given ‘hit-and-run’ treatment by doctors who want to minimize their contact with the ‘poor’ (who are likely to not pay) and as they have no limit on what they will be charged, the MD’s do not have to deal with coverage restrictions that the insured carry.

    The demands of the malpractice and liability still are the main reason quality is as poor even for the uninsured, however.

    All three points in the healthcare paradigm controlled by insurance concerns – patients, doctors and hospitals all redundantly kept in check in order to maintain profit margins for an immoral industry of greed.

    Is it a wonder then that the quality of service is a nearly 50/50 chance of not getting what care one fully needs?

    Refusing to deal with insurers is the only option. For sure the thought terrifies many Americans that have become complacent towards maintaining their own health; Americans who smoke, eat junk food, drink gallon after gallon of soda, stuff their faces with overprocessed product egregiously called ‘food’ and sit in front of the idiot box night after night like mindless zombies instead of exercising.

    As long as insurance is touted as ‘the answer’, the true problem which is the industry’s profit demands, will never be exposed as the source of our national healthcare fiasco that it is.

    Let the hospitals and doctors what is best for their patients and let them practice *evidence* based medicine and get the quality of care up. Let the lesser numbers of people getting poor treatment give both doctors and hospitals the reason they need to demand lowered insurance rates for their own coverage. Let both become efficient and accurate in that care they give and pass those savings onto the cash paying public and so reduce costs all around.

    Let those who still want to overcharge for poor service go out of business. No one is served by a poorly run hospital or a money-hungry quack.

    As an American that paid cash to get benzene poisoning by a doctor who was hamstrung by a malpractice protocol (enforced by the hospital’s liability), I can assuredly say that medical quality is too poor for the price the insurance industry has pushed it to and too poor for what it charges the health insurance buying public.

    Americans need to screw up their courage, take a leap of faith, boycott insurance coverage. and see who is the first to blink.

    Break the industry that’s broken American healthcare: Boycott insurance.

    Deborah Terreson

  • I stood behind a woman at Starbucks today who exploded at the barista because her vanilla latte took three minutes longer than she, in her (I’m sure) vast cafe experience, expected it would take. I stood behind her, annoyed at her inappropriate display, and cursed the suburban soccer mom mentality that has infected the mainstream, demanding first rate service from someone with little motivation to give it.

    I’m not going to tell someone that their view on democratic health care policies are wrong–there could be tremendous good, I think–but let’s be honest about American culture and face the fact that waits and delays, bureaucracy and lines, will infuriate the public. I would be surprised if America is at all happy with what it gets if any of these policies are implemented.

  • wrnchbndr said:
    “I’m a democrat but not for long and people like you are the reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

    Yeah, don’t let the door hit ya on the way out, you Limbaugh-licking moron.

  • HairlessMonkeyDK said

    Yeah, don’t let the door hit ya on the way out, you Limbaugh-licking moron.

    Your screen name says it all!!!!! Ignorance is blissful isn’t. I bet you you want the government to take your hand so you can cross the street.

    You and Hillary deserve each other.

  • Ron Paul on health care: “The federal entitlement to Medicare should be abolished, leaving health care decision making regarding the elderly at the state, local, or personal level.”

    Sure, just cut off federal assistance to the elderly and poor and the magic hand of the free market and/or state and local governments will fix everything! I guess an appropriate slogan would be: “No Grandma Left Behind”.

    I think we should insist Ron give everyone access to whatever that great shit is he is smoking.

  • No, people who back Republicans and care about health care don’t necessarily feel morally obligated to further enslave 300,000,000 at the behest of several million sick people.

    This is priceless:

    “Workers like [Dena Roach, who can barely afford her employer-subsidized premiums] want insurance that stays affordable, and the Republican presidential candidates say the best way is to give individuals tax breaks to help pay for coverage. Critics, including Democrats who advocate a broader government role, say these plans won’t hold down rising costs, much less put a dent in the 47 million uninsured Americans.”

    Because everyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of economics knows that the way to “keep” prices down is to make the product “free” thereby drastically increasing demand while doing nothing to address the inevitable lack of sufficient supply (i.e. Canada) and hence a drastic increase in the cost of the remaining products. Sounds like a Jimmy Carter apologist is applying his theories about gasoline price controls to health care. I’d be willing to bet they have the same outcome. Hilarious…

    If you love the idea of universal health care, drive to Canada next time you need surgery or have an emergency. Appointments and surgeries take weeks and MONTHS longer to get. There’s a reason why people come in droves from both Europe and Canada to have elective surgeries and emergency surgeries in the US, because by the time they get them in their utopian country of universal health care, they might be dead.

    Also, consider the fact that the US is home to many more illegal immigrants per capita than in either Canada or the EU. Those are people that use benefits (particularly when they’re all completely free) but don’t pay into the system. How about an opt-in system? If you feel such a tremendous urge to help the less fortunate and want to help pay for other people’s health care, feel free. I suspect that your compassion only extends far enough that you’d only consider helping out if everyone else is forced to, also. I on the other hand would rather pay for my own, which I do now. You’d have a hard time formulating a philosophical reason why forcing me to do otherwise would be anything other than tyranny. Health care is not a right, your ability to fund somebody else’s if you feel the need is. Here’s another idea, get together on a local level and start a universal health care system for people in your county. Start small, see if it works.

    Lastly, we can’t even pay for our Social Security liabilities, how does anyone propose we pay for a little additional program like, HEALTH COVERAGE FOR ALL?

  • To melior :

    We simply don’t have the money available to take care of the promises we’ve already made to those dependant on the gov’t. Ron Paul wants to let younger people “opt out” of the system, not cut any body off.

    I bet you can’t name ONE gov’t program that works better than free market.

  • 2TomRealityFix – Medicare. The skinny is that it’s more efficient in administration.

    The overhead to run the Medicare is less than 5% of the total cost of the program while the so-called ‘free market” insurance industry boasts a miserly 40% cost for its own administration.

    But hey, those are such NICE Caribbean retirement bungalows the CEO is getting this year for his family. Luxury even.

    I think American Medicine needs to some fiscal piperazole to take care of that insurance tapeworm it’s got itself infested with..

    Wake up America..

    Deb.

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