Romney flubs counter-terrorism test

ABC News’ The Note suggested this morning that Mitt Romney “looked presidential” during last night’s debate, but he also appeared “a smidge too pat in listing obscure terrorist groups.” As a substantive matter, it’s considerably worse than The Note made it sound. Chris Matthews asked Romney about his recent comments that it’s not worth the expense to “move heaven and earth” just to get Osama bin Laden. Romney responded:

“We’ll move everything to get him. But I don’t want to buy into the Democratic pitch, that this is all about one person, Osama bin Laden. Because after we get him, there’s going to be another and another. This is about Shi’a and Sunni. This is about Hezbollah and Hamas and al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood. This is the worldwide jihadist effort to try and cause the collapse of all moderate Islamic governments and replace them with a caliphate.

“They also probably want to bring down the United States of America. This is a global effort we’re going to have to lead to overcome this jihadist effort. It’s more than Osama bin Laden. But he is going to pay, and he will die.”

Putting aside the tough-guy bravado, Romney’s comments don’t stand up well to even minimal scrutiny. He wasn’t “listing obscure terrorist groups”; he was listing well-known groups badly.

As Brad Plumer explained, “The Muslim Brotherhood is a large, complex organization. Some of its radical wings may engage in various unsavory activities. But the bulk of the movement has renounced violent jihad and, in places like Egypt, made a point to participate in elections…. Not only that, but they represent a broad swath of ‘mainstream’ Islam. Lumping them in with Al Qaeda is a terrible idea.”

For that matter, the Bush administration has approved some diplomatic outreach to the Muslim Brotherhood. To hear Romney tell it, Bush is cooperating with a known terrorist group.

The reality is, Romney doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

One gets the sense that maybe Romney thought he’d show off. He’d name a bunch of Islamic groups in the Middle East and guys who work at The Note would be impressed that the former governor of Massachusetts would be able to name “obscure terrorist groups” off the top of his head.

But in Romney’s case, this is superficial and uninformed memorization. He’s articulating a national security strategy that conflates groups, sects, and agendas that have nothing to do with one another. As Spencer Ackerman summarized: “Mitt Romney’s War: the total conflation of all Islamist movements…. Suffice it to say that there is no caliphate on heaven or earth that will simultaneously satisfy Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood, which goes a long way toward explaining why there is no concerted ‘worldwide jihadist effort’ by these groups to establish one.”

Kevin Drum added:

Unfortunately…nobody seems to care. Romney sounds like he’s being tough on the bad guys, and he managed to mention a whole bunch of Middle Eastern-ish stuff without mispronouncing any of it, which probably gets him points for being on the ball. But gibberish is gibberish, no matter how good your haircut is.

I know it drives the right crazy to pose questions like this, but I wonder what would have happened if a leading Democratic presidential candidate had flubbed a serious national-security question this badly in such a high-profile setting. Would the media report it? Would Fox News ever stop reporting it?

Romney is a caveman.

  • Kind of like lumping together Iraq Iran and North Korea?
    AoE 2?

    Given Hezbollah and Hamas’ movements towards political participation and their relatively tepid anti-Israeli action regardless of an upswing in verbal taunts, is it smart policy to saber rattle?

    Even if Romney had gotten the list right, it feeds an unhealthy us versus them mentality that encourages American tendencies to equate Islam and Islamic groups with entrenched, murderous genocidal goals.

    One might have said the same about the IRA not long ago.
    Are we as convinced Shein Fein will return to massacres?

    It sells to their first clientele, the Christian supremicists. Problem is, the damage this cloying does remains long after the incendiary words are forgotten by mainstream America.

  • During the small portion of the debate that I watched last night Mr. Giuliani was asked for the difference between Shia and Sunni and responded with the quick answer referring to the difference of lineage based vs adhering to principles. He ended abruptly there though, which I think showed that he didn’t really have a grasp of what those historic differences mean in the modern world. It was the standard answer that has been advertised (in his case it appeared memorized) but no depth of analysis was applied as to what the division means to their relationships with other religions or secular societies in the world.

  • Guys, you missed the big truthiness here:
    “..This is about Shi’a and Sunni….”

    What he is saying is that virtually ALL muslims are terrorists.
    Shoot, that was too easy.

  • …the Democratic pitch, that this is all about one person, Osama bin Laden…

    Is that really the Democratic pitch, or just a straw man?

    As I understand the knock against Bush vis a vis bin Laden, it’s that the failure to capture bin Laden illustrates this administration’s general inability and/or unwillingness to do follow-up work.

  • BuzzMon, I think he was trying to say that the terrorists are both Shia and Sunni, not that all Shites and all Sunnis are terrorists.

    He’s a moron, but not THAT big of one.

  • Grumpy, if we took all the straw Republicans throw out during election cycles, we could brew enough ethanol to replace all of our oil imports for 20 yrs.

    Dems should say: “No Mitch, it’s not all about one man, but now that you mention it, your party is led by a guy who has said he doesn’t think getting bin Laden is important. Have you any idea how WEAK and STUPID that makes the Republicans look?”

  • Hey, I’ve figured out what Mitt’s campaign theme song should be:

    Don’t know much about history
    Don’t know much biology
    Don’t know much about a science book
    Don’t know much about the French I took

    “Wonderful World”, Sam Cooke

  • I keep thinking to myself I want Romney for our opponent, and then something like this comes along and the MSM takes it as him being “serious.” If this was the general election, they’d give him a pass the way they did Bush in 2000, while we can bet they’ll go after the Democrat for every little thing.

    This is why I recommend we start now: EVERY TIME someone in the MSM flubs it, e-mail them, flood their damn in-box, and whack them. Make them as gunshy of us as they are of the righties. I really think it’s the only way to get them to behave like journalists who didn’t sleep through Journalism 101.

  • Obscure??? I don’t even read much about terrorism, yet these groups aren’t unknown to me. And his use of Shia and Sunni was retarded. This really went far to show us what’s screwed up with our political system. When a major candidate can say something so totally boneheaded, and yet he’s treated like he’s a policy wonk by the gossips helping shape our the political landscape.

    But really, most people don’t even listen to pundits and whatnot. I just wish the politicians would understand that and just ignore those fools. Their primary influence is simply the hoops they make the politicians jump through, and that would go away if only they’d stop jumping.

  • Dr. B said:

    “This really went far to show us what’s screwed up with our political system. When a major candidate can say something so totally boneheaded, and yet he’s treated like he’s a policy wonk by the gossips helping shape our the political landscape.”

    Actually, it shows how incredibly far the bar has been lowered in terms of what we expect for eligibility to be the “leader of the free world.” To borrow a phrase, “soft bigotry of post-Dubya expectations.”

  • Racerx –

    Considering the makeup of “The Base” to whom these guys have to appeal, I would not put it past this being one of those “coded” messages. You know, the dog-whistle type of phrases meant to seem innocuous to most, but it hits the sweet spot for the Christianists.

    I mean, look at the quote. To educated folk, there’s the distinction between the two major groups within Islam. But to someone not as sophisticated, he names those groups, and then immediately starts naming the groups labeled as Terrorists. They are unquestioningly lumped together.

    Worse things have happened.

  • Republicans are always pushing fear, always some evil poised to attack us and Romney is just giving it a Mid-East name. Any mid-east group will do. The republicans are at the mercy of their handlers and they all have bad memories. They would not be able to tell us one thing about Iraq reconstruction which is the main reason for the disaster in Iraq. It’s not just the war it’s the war profiteer’s incompetence and corruption in Iraq’s reconstruction that are turning out enemies to the US by the thousands. Romney and others could never see us as the enemy.
    The other top issue of 2006 elections was…corruption…another area where they have no memory. Here’ a question for ya’ Romney…What do you call a thousand Republicans at the bottom of the ocean?….oversight.

  • Methinks commenter No. 9, Cleaver, should be directing everyone to have their say at Swampland here. (Warning: the post you are about to see gives at least modest praise to Mark Halperin. Seriously, how can you let that stand?)

  • “Suffice it to say that there is no caliphate on heaven or earth that will simultaneously satisfy Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood, which goes a long way toward explaining why there is no concerted ‘worldwide jihadist effort’ by these groups to establish one.”

    I think the GOP just miss having a monolithic international cabal of evildoers determined to rule the world that they can channel all their fear and hatred into.
    Like they could with the commies.
    So they have to make one up.

  • 2Manchu sez: I think the GOP just miss having a monolithic international cabal of evildoers determined to rule the world that they can channel all their fear and hatred into.

    Agreed. And if anyone tries to explain to the pinheads the basics about any of those groups, like why Saddam would never have given weapons to al Qaeda, they get really mad, because it makes their heads hurt.

    Morons, all.

  • Forgive me, CB, but I think you’ve managed a total misreading of what he’s saying. If I may paraphrase:
    – This is about Muslim ways of belief
    – This is about all the different organisations trying to radicalise that belief
    – and This is about the groups of extreme radicals, each (perhaps separately) trying to create a caliphate

    (crap rhetoric this way, but the same meaning). Read like this, it’s not only tough-sounding, but quite coherent & factual.

  • Nice stretch, firefalluk, but then what is the Muslim Brotherhood doing at the end of his list?

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