Skip to content
Categories:

Saturday night open thread

Post date:
Author:

A few trusted readers encouraged me to offer open threads on weekends, and that struck me as a fine idea.

So, what’s on your mind? Got any links you want to share? Stories that need a plug? Requests to make?

The floor is yours….

Comments

  • jen

    says:

    How do the Democrats get out of defensive posturing and take the initiative? How much of the population needs to be disgusted with the status quo before that happens? 98%?

  • Dale

    says:

    Here’s some ideas for “negative” campaigning from moveon.org:

    10 things you should know about John McCain (but probably don’t):

    1. John McCain voted against establishing a national holiday in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Now he says his position has “evolved,” yet he’s continued to oppose key civil rights laws.1
    2. According to Bloomberg News, McCain is more hawkish than Bush on Iraq, Russia and China. Conservative columnist Pat Buchanan says McCain “will make Cheney look like Gandhi.”2
    3. His reputation is built on his opposition to torture, but McCain voted against a bill to ban waterboarding, and then applauded President Bush for vetoing that ban.3
    4. McCain opposes a woman’s right to choose. He said, “I do not support Roe versus Wade. It should be overturned.”4
    5. The Children’s Defense Fund rated McCain as the worst senator in Congress for children. He voted against the children’s health care bill last year, then defended Bush’s veto of the bill.5
    6. He’s one of the richest people in a Senate filled with millionaires. The Associated Press reports he and his wife own at least eight homes! Yet McCain says the solution to the housing crisis is for people facing foreclosure to get a “second job” and skip their vacations.6
    7. Many of McCain’s fellow Republican senators say he’s too reckless to be commander in chief. One Republican senator said: “The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine. He’s erratic. He’s hotheaded. He loses his temper and he worries me.”7
    8. McCain talks a lot about taking on special interests, but his campaign manager and top advisers are actually lobbyists. The government watchdog group Public Citizen says McCain has 59 lobbyists raising money for his campaign, more than any of the other presidential candidates.8
    9. McCain has sought closer ties to the extreme religious right in recent years. The pastor McCain calls his “spiritual guide,” Rod Parsley, believes America’s founding mission is to destroy Islam, which he calls a “false religion.” McCain sought the political support of right-wing preacher John Hagee, who believes Hurricane Katrina was God’s punishment for gay rights and called the Catholic Church “the Antichrist” and a “false cult.”9
    10. He positions himself as pro-environment, but he scored a 0—yes, zero—from the League of Conservation Voters last year.10

  • JD Webster

    says:

    So where’s the outrage?

    “In our democracy, it’s fair to disagree with ___ _______ ___________ – hopefully, from an informed position. But attacking the man himself in a back-door bid to undercut his _________is reminiscent of the Stalinist practices of the 1930

    Let’s hope that -_________ vile attack on _________marks a turning point – that ___________ of conscience will stand up and condemn such behavior carried out in their name.”

    Said_________ in the NewYork _______ on ________.

    Which set of answers do you think correctly fills in the blanks of this quote?

    SET A: the Illinois Senator, patriotism, McCain’s, Obama, Republicans.
    Hillary Clinton, Times, July 31, 2008

    SET B: the general’s analysis, testimony, MoveOn’s, Gen. Petraeus, Democrats.
    Ralph Peters , Post, Sept. 11, 2007.
    ___________________________________________________________________

    Senator Obama would lose a war in order to win an election?

    So where’s the outrage?

  • JohnR

    says:

    So where’s the outrage? Except for Olberman and the Daily show
    unfortunately its mostly in these blogs…Don’t you encounter those people every day …absolutely no clue. Never pick up a newspaper, watch a news program….pay no attention to politics except on some subliminal level. If they do catch a news show …how much is devoted to the election..5 minutes worth of sound bites. Nasty ad here it is ..no comment no critique and then a clip of a softly worded rebuttal by some Dem functionary. I watch the news in the Gym and they have all the major networks on flatscreens with captions so I get a perspective on the big 3, Faux and CNN. Its the same shit on all of them.If its a blowout they have no story so they make the story up to generate ratings. Thats why they loved the Hillary and Bark show cause it was close, went to the bitter end and generated ratings.

  • Gaucho Politico

    says:

    Would making the election about McCain=Bush at every turn actually help Obama? I have always been of the opinion that people are prospective rather than retrospective voters. Taking about Bush all the time would be all about the past and make it seem like Obama is not offering anything other than, “i am not Bush”.

  • Gaucho Politico

    says:

    Also, has anyone noticed that the election is becoming more about McCain as he has gone very negative and made all the false attacks. It is drawing attention to him but not in a good way.

  • Terrorist Fist Jab

    says:

    Here’s a tip:

    Let’s start talking about Phil Gramm.

    Gramm was McCain’s “top economic adviser” until he embarrassed himself and the campaign by calling working Americans hit hard by the financial crash “whiners.” Here’s a line Obama can have: “McCain’s top adviser, Phil Gramm, a Bush Republican if ever there was one, says we’re in a mental recession. His message to Americans who are worried about losing their jobs and their health insurance: it’s all in your head! To Americans spending most of their paycheck to fill up the tank to drive to work: it’s all in your head! To families tossed out of their homes: it’s all in your head! No wonder these guys want to talk about Britney Spears.”

    Let’s have an ad with the videotape: a Texas millionaire calling us “whiners.” What a gift!

    McCain decided Gramm knew best about the economy, although his major contributions to the nation were the deregulation of the natural gas and energy markets, which gave us Enron, and the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act.

    Of course, the media probably won’t pick up on this, because, you know, the McCain campaign has “distanced” itself from Gramm, so therefore we can’t talk about him anymore, but why not give it a shot? Phil Gramm is a living specimen of Bushonomics. If Obama wins, it’s because McCain has been too busy playing soldier in the Senate to bothered with things like finance and energy, and he trusted guys like Gramm to advise him on the economy.

  • Edgar M.

    says:

    Curious to see what you all think of this. Haven’t seen much discussion on it…

    The topic is racism. Not the nasty, sly GOP form which we’ve already seen and which we’ll surely see more of as Novemeber approaches. I’m talking about a sort of “soft” racism which is certainly keeping a certain number of Dem voters from being enthusiastic supporters of Obama. I’m thinking of a conversation I had recently with my mother, 64 years old, salt of the earth, not very political but a lifelong blue-collar Pittsburgh Democrat. She voted for Hillary in the primary and I asked what she thought of Obama — she was very hesitant to talk about it, but she’s uncomfortable with him, doesn’t really “trust” him, and is concerned that if anyone criticizes Obama, “they” will make it “all about race”.

    Of course her hesitation is because he’s African-American, but she’s not a hardcore racist or anything like that — she’d never come out and say anything explicitly racist. But she grew up in an openly racist environment and although she did her best to raise us kids without that stain, there’s something that lingers there. I’m sure we all know folks like this, probably mostly in my mom’s generation.

    So I’m wondering how big an impact this will have in the end. I was just listening to CNN airing another story on “why doesn’t Obama have a bigger lead? What’s wrong with him?” and it just amazes me that the media goes to such lengths to avoid even a mention of race. I guess they’re all afraid of being accused of playing “the race card”. But it’s out there, it’s real, and it doesn’t do anyone any good to pretend it doesn’t exist. To me it seems obvious — of course his lead is slim — he’s Black! I don’t know that there’s anything we can do about it though, other than for Obama to continue to expose people to his intelligence, rationality, etc. so they can get over their “discomfort”. And of course those of us who know folks with this soft-racist tendency can continue to make our case. What do you all think?

  • Karl Rove

    says:

    “A small study of people’s reactions to the Britney-Paris ad suggested, however, that while people don’t like the ad, it caused them to doubt Obama, and small percentages who’d said before viewing the ad that they’d vote for him said afterword that they wouldn’t.”

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/46165.html

    They were going to vote for him and viewing this asinine ad changed their mind. You liberals just don’t get it: the American people are STUPID!

  • calvinthecat

    says:

    calvin would like to thank Mr. Benen for his excellent work. Absolutely outstanding. Incredible work day in and day out. calvin recommends thinking of all the positive adjectives one can think of about Mr. Benen’s work and repeat them silently and smile.

    The wrong side has nothing worthy of comparison. Another great voice in progressive, reality-based blogger movement of which we can all be rightfully proud. Obviously calvin can’t be all wrong as Mr. Benen’s work appears on other high-quality blogs.

    From the comments, it’s obvious that this site has an audience that is pretty high-class and growing. Thanks for keeing us well-informed with topical news and great comment.

  • Karl Rove

    says:

    @16
    Let’s see a liberal say that with a straight face. We have the worst candidate and were still gonna kick your ass. By the time were done with stripping the bark off Obama Steve Benen will be supporting straightshootin’ McCain.

  • libra

    says:

    I could have told her that there’s very little difference in the motivation of women suicide bombers and the male ones, but it’s nice to have some numbers. What I’m waiting for is for the other shoe to drop and see some children suicide bombers, doing it for the same reasons the adults are. I can’t get out of my head the scores of boy and girl scouts who gave their lives (in Warsaw) fighting against the Nazi occupant…
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/02/opinion/02orourke.html?ref=opinion

    Edgar M, @11

    Yeah, I know such ‘soft bigots” myself — my own husband (84, Virginia born and bred) – is one. But they’re still Dems first. They’ll vote for Obama, albeit with some trepidation, now that Hillary’s no longer an option. So I’m not worried about them. I do admit I’m a bit worried about those who are less Dem-committed, but I’m not yet ready to lose sleep about them; hopefully, if McCain’s paid out enough rope, he’ll hang himself, for all to see.

    Not but I think it was a mistake on Obama’s part to have disavowed Wes Clark’s comments so decisively. It’s likely to put a crimp in other surrogates’ desire to stick their necks out. Not everyone has the disposition to become a suicide bomber…

  • JohnR

    says:

    @libra Thanks for the link – I forgot to read the NYT this am. The question comes to mind – would they have had enough guts to say the same thing about anyone else, as they know Obama is not going to buy into their game. I wonder what the Hillary ads would have looked like.

  • Dale

    says:

    Dear MoveOn member,

    The “Yes We Can” video by will.i.am. The 1000+ positive Obama ads created by MoveOn members. The iconic Obama “HOPE” poster created by artist Shepard Fairey.

    Barack Obama’s historic candidacy has sparked an unprecedented artistic outpouring. Now, in partnership with Shepard Fairey and his Obey Giant collective, we’re offering a new way for artists—anyone with a pen and paper qualifies—to share their talents and help elect Barack Obama at the same time.

    It’s called Manifest Hope, and it’s a new Obama art contest for 2D and 3D art, from painting to photography to sculpture. The winners will be shown at the Manifest Hope Gallery online and in Denver during the Democratic convention alongside works from dozens of established and influential artists.

    If you think you might want to enter, or want updates on the contest, please let us know here:

    http://pol.moveon.org/mh/signup/?id=13385-9315690-QoDhx.x&t=3

  • Todd

    says:

    I agree that John McCain should be outed as calling Obama a ‘traitor’ for this: “Senator Obama would lose a war in order to win an election.” I think using the word “traitor” over and over might stick in the press.

  • libra

    says:

    OK; the last link of the evening and then I’ll stop overusing the new and greatly appreciated feature. This is the culprit which might have pushed Steve over the edge; I sent it to him last nigh, bemoaning — once again — the lack of open fora on weekends. It’s not enough for a full post, but interesting all the same:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/02/technology/02fcc.html

    JohnR@19,

    I too, wonder sometimes, what anti-Hillary ads would have been like. I expect they’d have been more focused, since GOP had been collecting “stuff” on her forever, certain-sure that she’d be the nominee. I suspect that most would have been “tarring by association” – ie anti *Bill* — both because there’s, probably, more material to be mined there, and also because, using him as the target, would have made it easier to get their “base” into the state of frothing-at-the-mouth, rabid, indignation. Especially since it would have been very hard to hang any dogs on Hillary, which weren’t the exact same ones that are surrounding McCain. That is, her “sins” (AUFM vote, etc) would have also been her “shield”, from which most attacks would have ricocheted straight back to McCain.

    I think McCain’s using such stupid, crappy, stuff because a) it’s simple and doesn’t tax anyone’s brain overmuch (but is effective, in that all you have to remember are catch words like “empty suit” and “celebrity” — a synonym of “empty suit”) and b) because that’s all he’s got.

    Whether because Obama is, by nature, a “good human being” or because he’s been “canny” and cautious ever since he entered Columbia, there’s very little one *can* hang on him (for entirely different reasons than those applying to Hillary. He’s also very good at brushing things off his shoulder (I’d love to see McCain’s attacks juxtaposed with that gesture of his, which was supposed to have been disrespectful to Hillary, “way back when”).

  • Bernini

    says:

    Steve: Thank you for the thread addition.

    re: Edgar M’s racial question

    Edgar-
    I was in an outpatient waiting room recently at a major metropolitan hospital. Two other waiters were nearby. I was reading “Nixonland.” They picked up a daily paper that had the Obama Berlin speech photo on the cover. The husband showed it to his wife, “look at this, it’s like Nazi Germany, like he’s Hitler.” Direct quote. The couple was white, in the 60’s, perhaps your mom’s generation…? I am white, much younger, with a small child and hope against all hope that Obama is the next president. Even if it means he inherits a recession and a war.

    With “Nixonland” swirling around in my head, I wonder if the good people of Appalachia, steel town’s, and yes, inner city waiting rooms, are as much against someone having it so easy right out to the box as they are against someone for their race. The narrative arc of “we worked hard, etc” comes into play. I also wonder if that is what is behind the republican attack of Obama as a celebrity. Celebrity’s have it easy, are adored, don’t have to “work hard” like us blue collar folk. I notice that the McCain Roveites picked two white girls who could easily be pigeoned holed as “lazy” gadabouts. Subliminal.

    Obama has been spot on with his sidestepping of these thinly veiled references and I love the fact that he is out there being flexible with his policies. I look forward to the actual (3) debates but suspect that it won’t change anyone’s mind. Certainly not those who react in horror to 200,000 people cheering Obama.

    One only has to read the preface to “Nixonland”, when images of Watts and every other riot are presented as being burned into the American pysche for a entire generation. Unstability = black. And I would extrapolate that this equation was carried into into the 80’s as cities detriorated under Regan. Here we are in the aughts and we are surrounded by uncertainty. Whoever makes the better case for stability is going to win. Think about it, a black man in 2008 is in effect saying to America: “I am offering stability.” When was the last time that happened? I am a total political neophyte, but I’m going to guess the correct answer is never. I also think Obama was light years ahead of us on thinking about these complex issues and is exactly why he put the word ‘hope’ out there from the very beginning.

  • doubtful

    says:

    Orson Scott Card yaks it up about armed revolution if gays get the right to marry. -Crissa

    It was so disappointing when I first learned of Card’s bigotry because I grew up enjoying his books. I counted Ender’s Game and the entire Homecoming Series among my favorite reads.

    Now, as much as I’d like to read his work, I’ve gotta vote with my dollar. I just can’t support ignorance like that.

  • bubba the troll you all love to hate

    says:

    Hmm 200 thousand cheering Obamma… must be from france. The other day I heard jeering from a black audience…. Today I heard whining about OBammas stance change on offshore drilling. The house of cards is starting to fall.. your boy is slipping into the tank. Mark my words.. Stevie knows it he just keeps coming up with these silly topics to avoid the real topic.. What is this guys plans for the US …. he has said not one thing that he hasnt changed his stance on during this campain.. as a matter of fact if you look at his political leanings he has completely changed on everything. Thats how he works.. he sticks his finger up into the political wind and thats how he speaks for the day… Stevie.. watch that career dissapation light in your boys eyes .. its starting to really flicker each time he speaks…. as far as a one on one debate ..how come he keeps avoiding the offer… there is no way this guy will meet McCain one on one with out having 300 advisers and a real time teleprompter to help him.. he dont have it in him….
    bubba said that….

  • Karl Rove

    says:

    Our next ad: Obama is the father of two black children.

    Please Bubba-don’t call for open debates between Obama and McCain. Are ya nuts! When McCain gets flustered after not being able to answer questions about routine matters and charges across the stage to physically assault Obama even stoopid Americans will get the message. Our boy is an old loony hypocrite.

  • libra

    says:

    bubbeleh, @27,

    Nothing I can do about your overinflated self-admiration (most of us don’t bother to *hate* you; you’re not worth it) but, please, show some respect to your host… His name is “Steve”, not “Stevie”.

  • bubba the troll you all love to hate

    says:

    ♥u 2 Libra… My name is Bubba… not bubbeleh…. I think Steve can stick up for himself if he is offended… Im sure he doesnt need some sport like you to defend his good name.. not that I care what you think but I was not trying to be disrespectful to him.. Actually it was meant as a form of endearment….I love the forum and I love the chatter with y’all.. I do thank him for the platform and the lack of censorship so prevelant on many of the other liberal blogs… Steve …..thanks for the soapbox…
    Bubba Said that

  • burro

    says:

    Saturday night’s all right for writin’……….

    For the “in your faceness” of it, from Newseek 8/4/2008 in an article about Chevron in Ecuador: http://www.newsweek.com/id/149090

    The company, (Chevron), says a loss could set a dangerous precedent for other U.S. multinationals. “The ultimate issue here is Ecuador has mistreated a U.S. company,” said one Chevron lobbyist who asked not to be identified talking about the firm’s arguments to U.S. officials. “We can’t let little countries screw around with big companies like this—companies that have made big investments around the world.”

    No, No, of course we can’t.

    And that goes well with this excellent, mind clearing juxtaposition of Enron and Exxon by Hunter at DKos today:

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/2/13152/24931/498/560880

    Ahhh, the benevolence of corporations. Like Hell.

  • Terrorist Fist Jab

    says:

    I think Obama needs to say that the Republican Party of Karl Rove and Steve Schmidt is a danger to the country. In just those words. Trade in your boxing gloves for brass knuckles and start punching these guys in the mouth.

    It astounds me that Karl Rove is still viewed as some sort of inscrutable genius of power, manipulating American politics like a fat, red-faced Dr. Faustus. He is no such thing. Rove merely learned something early on that most people (especially Democrats) are too proud to admit to themselves: voting is cheap. Most people aren’t effected by who is the president, and they understand on an intuitive level that their vote will cost them nothing. Therefore, they jump at the chance to trivialize the process, to cut the candidates down to size. This is why negative advertising, despite so many protests against it, almost always moves the polls.

    (I am not saying everyone votes this way, only that enough people do so to ruin the republic for those among us, liberal and conservative, who take seriously the task of allocating society’s resources.)

    Rove’s only talent is that he recognizes this ugly truth and uses it to his candidate’s advantage.

    That’s why the Britney Spears ad worked. It wasn’t persuasive. It didn’t even make sense. It merely took advantage of two unfortunate facts, dangling in the ether. One, most Americans have brains of mush and are so weak-willed that they’re content to live in the world of petty meanness and vacuity presented by network television and gossip rags. Two, those same Americans take great umbrage at anyone claiming to function on a higher level. In the context of present American culture, it’s a very crafty advertisement. One, get down to the level of the stupidest Americans: the fat housewife leering out the window overcome with hate and jealousy toward her neighbors, her fat husband who hasn’t read a book since high school and blames his misery on everything—blacks, Mexicans, gays—but his own blinkered, neurotic mind. Two, point out that McCain sees things their way, and that Obama fellow, well, who knows?

    It works on people who are marginally more intelligent too, because, unfortunately, we live in a society that doesn’t mock stupidity and ignorance as it should, but seems to find some enviable authenticity in an unlettered bigot.

    The only way to fight back is to say “this is not good enough for America.” We’ve spent the last three decades rejecting smart, sincere men (Dukakis, Gore, Kerry) on the basis that they were gettin’ above their raisin’ with books and such. Look at what it has earned us: an economy based on needless consumption and wild speculation; a psychopathic foreign policy; a legislature full of tacky, venal scoundrels. Do we want someone with a trained mind who can comport himself as the leader of a society, someone in the tradition of Lincoln and Roosevelt, or do we want someone who can only take power by debasing the democratic process, like the Bush presidents?

  • Franklin

    says:

    This will be my only response to Bubbeleh:

    With all due respect (which is none), McCain’s flip flop list is far longer and more damning than the right-wing blogs’ lists I have seen for Obama. It is obviously true that both pander and generalize far too often, but McCain outright lies on many occasions (see his double-flop on immigration which he followed up by telling a Latino audience to “trust him”).

    … plus McCain is almost totally incoherent and often confused when it comes to his supposed expertise: foreign policy.

    I appreciate his lip service to bringing spending under control, but the last Republican president with a balanced budget was … wait for it … Gerald Ford. So forgive me if I don’t believe old Johnny.

  • raybro

    says:

    RE: 11.
    On August 2nd, 2008 at 8:16 pm, Edgar M. said:

    Edward, have a dialogue with your mom. Don’t just assume she’s set in her ways. Give here another opinion besides what the fools on TV constantly repeat. These fools sit in a studio and read what they are given for a living. What the hell do they know?

  • Bailey

    says:

    A lot of people have been going on about this stupidity of the American people deal, how most people don’t pay attention to the news at all and just follow celebrity gossip.

    I was wondering if anyone else has noticed that Obama has been on more than one People/USWeekly/etc cover in the past few months. The articles might be complete fluff, but I feel like at least some of the readers of these magazines will begin to think, “Wow, Obama has really raised a beautiful family and seems to have a great relationship with his wife and blah blah blah and maybe he is all right after all” the same way they believe that Jennifer Aniston and John Mayer are like, totally dating. It might not be policy, but it’s something to get those rusty gears turning. How many people do you know who even just scan these magazines at supermarket checkouts?

    Or maybe it will just perpetuate this whole bullshit celebrity image? On that note, these negative ads are probably the most high-brow press Britney and Paris have received in years. Their PR reps should cut McCain a check.

    Long time reader, Steve. Thank you.

  • tiredofgreed

    says:

    Not sure if this has come up before but why in the world does the Obama campaign not mention the dollar bill ad Mccains campaing produced with his face on the bill? And why doesn’t the media report it? It is what Obama was referencing in his speeches and much of the reason Mccain went after him but I rarely see the Mccain ad even mentioned. Am I missing something?

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/1/182416/6786

  • Steve

    says:

    libra, the entity @ 27 & 32 is henceforth known as Bubbles. Now, whether that’s Bubbles the Clown or Bubbles the Monkey, I’ve not quite figured out, as this Bubbles seems somewhat the hybrid; dragging its knuckles all about the place while throwing pie-plates full of shaving soap.

    Bubbles is an excellent name for an entity that has failed so miserably; so contemptuously; so utterly and completely at a pre-affective skill normally mastered by children at the age of three—but then again, perhaps asking Bubbles to successfully complete Pottie Training 101 would be a bit much….

  • GuyFromOhio

    says:

    It was so disappointing when I first learned of Card’s bigotry because I grew up enjoying his books. I counted Ender’s Game and the entire Homecoming Series among my favorite reads.

    … and the Worthington Saga, Planet Called Treason, Lost Boys – hack or not, the guy is a great writer.

    Now, as much as I’d like to read his work, I’ve gotta vote with my dollar. I just can’t support ignorance like that.

    Reminds me of how Heinlein went a little wacky in his later years. I despair when writers, actors or artists use the pulpit afforded by fans to undercut positions or issues of importance, and Cards’ words were unnecessary and surprising. Want to vote with your pocketbook but still read good stories? Get his books from the library.

  • Edgar M.

    says:

    Re: # 36

    Thanks for the tip, raybro — I have been talking to her and I’m sure in the end she’ll vote for Obama (and she’s the type who wouldn’t just stay home and skip it). In her heart she knows what’s right but new things always make her nervous. (As though the disasters of the Bush years were stable and calm?) She sees right through McCain and thinks the Republicans are good for nothing except giving more money to those who already have plenty. I’ve tried to emphasize Obama’s “post-racial” stance to get her focused on other issues.

    Now, the Old Man — well, he’s another story! That’s a tough nut to crack.

  • Wayne

    says:

    Senator Obama would lose a war in order to win an election? So where’s the outrage?

    And how about…..where’s the outrage over winning an election to start a war?

  • JD Webster

    says:

    Wayne @ 43 – Yes that is exactly the point. The question is why aren’t responsible Dems in the House and Senate calling for a bill to condemn McCain’s reckless charge against Obama.

    Moveon got trashed for “General Betray Us” but McCain can accuse Obama of treason and barely a peep is heard out of the Senate in Obama’s defense.

  • MsJoanne

    says:

    # 33, the precedent gas already been set (in Equador) as they threw out an American company the government had previously entered into an agreement with to privatize their water. The California based company sued and lost. It was very bitter.

    Nine countries in SA have banded together to show the world what capitalism should look like; they are taking their oil money and lifting their poor.

    And I wonder when we will bomb them.

  • bubba the troll you all love to hate

    says:

    The only response to my post is calling me names?… and saying the McCain flip flops too… Thats all you got?!? not one word of defense for obamma in stating that he can do this or that… or he has been solid on this proposal since he got in the limelight…only the same ole bumper sticker mentality ive seen here from you people for ever… typical leftist garbage… if from now on you are going to stick up for your boy , please at least use intelligent rhetoric … maybe these name callers are just kids staying up late on daddys computer… I am not surprised however guys like Steve @39, or Libra@39…if you look at their previous post when they respond to me all they got is stupid grade school trash talk… just kids or throw back morons from the 60’s….have a nice day….
    Bubba said that…..

  • Gary Dutton

    says:

    Rove=Racism

    The attacks by McInsane/Rove on Obama are racist, pure and simple! Unfortunately, they are working – mostly on the insecure/unsure/latent racist classes, and unless the Obama surrogates/advisors take this head on there will be trouble in Nov!

    The Dems must win a decisive victory in Nov, because a close win may not stand…we all know how that goes! I’m sure the Rovian cabal already is plotting numerous ways in just how they can snatch victory from defeat!…the Supremes are no doubt poised to react!

    One other thought: The previous comments about the American public being stupid are frought with validity!

    One long-term goal of this authoritarian, right wing, facist regime has been to supress economically, and weaken/destroy the middle class in this country, while shifting all the power/$ to the “ruling” class.

    This makes it far easier for them to manipulate thinking and retain power in the future – EVEN if, and while, another political point of view might be in the majority for whatever interim interval might occur.

    Eventually they will return with a vengeance, and will not be timid about completely overturning our residual freedoms…remember many Dems. are not much different than the right wing Reps. in their political thinking or prior complicit actions in Congess.

    So the more the general population is supressed economically/politically, the less able they will be to resist outrageous breaches of democratic principles and the rule of law because they are STUPID from lack of info/education. They will/do not even realize/recognize that these things are/have already begun to happen(ed).

    This is the same reason that the intelligensia are always the first to be removed (violently or otherwise) by reactionary regimes throughout the world’s history – it’s easier to wield power unimpeded…except we do it in this country economically – welcome to the Western Hemisphere’s largest evolving 3rd world country!

  • Terrorist Fist Jab

    says:

    Re: #37

    When I see Obama on the cover of US Weekly or on Access Hollywood, I cringe. My problem is not that Democrats usually get beat up in the politics-as-celebrity game; my problem is that the game exists at all, and so many otherwise respectable politicians take eager part in it.

    This has been going on for a while, long enough to see the results. While elections have been seemingly decided on the basis of whether or not a candidate is a suitable companion to the local shot-and-beer bar, and we’re treated every for years to juvenile gossip about this guy’s taste in leisure or where that guy takes his wife on vacation, conservative revolutionaries have hollowed out the government and leaders in both parties have overseen a redistribution of the nation’s wealth to a tiny fraction of the population.

    The idea of democracy is simple: governing is mostly common sense, and we can all take part. The implication of celebrity politics is the opposite: the U.S. code is too arcane for jus’ folks, but since we have a Constitution and we have to let you vote, why not vote according to criteria you can understand, like whether or not the guy seems likable. I call bullshit on this, on I’ll eagerly work for the first candidate who has the brains to stand up and speak the truth to the nation.

    Re: #47

    Rove, like most men who manage to change the world, is a great psychologist. He understands the subtleties of the tribe. Race is one factor; so is sex, and sexual orientation, tastes… Remember how we all heard about the time John Kerry had foie gras? Viola! Never heard a word about all the hamburgers he probably ate.