Sunday Discussion Group

August 7, 2005

I heard an interview the other day in which a conservative insisted that Hillary Clinton couldn’t appeal to a national audience in large part because she pushed a plan for “socialized medicine” in the early ’90s. Anyone who was even passively familiar with Clinton’s proposal had to realize that this is a ridiculous myth — Clinton’s plan didn’t socialize anything — but the comment went uncorrected by the host, as if the observation was obviously true.

It leads me to this week’s topic: what are the most persistent and irritating political myths? Perceptions that are false, but seem to be broadly accepted as true?

1. social security is going broke
2. Bush won in 2000
3. Bush won without cheating in 2004
4. the Liberal MSM

  • 1. That the GOP is pro-military.
    2. That designation as a Republican makes one righteous and above self-interest.
    3. That the people who speak for Christians (Falwell, Robertson, Dobson, et al.) actually believe in God.
    4. That politicians can ever be trusted.
    5. That our country is worthy of a republic and the freedoms our ancestors died to protect.

  • Media Matters is doing a fairly decent job with this, especially as it relates to covering H Clinton’s butt. However, they sent me an e-mail encouraging me to help on one of their pages. No one else there was doing anything productive at all. I made five posts. They deleted the two most interesting media founds I had. That was the whole point, to find media stories on this subject, and the best story I found? They deleted. Something is funky with Media Matters, but I don’t know what.

    Biggest Myths:

    1. That the Cold War was about Capitalism vs. Communism, rather than Representative Democracy vs. Totalitarianism.

    This one kills me. It is the foundation myth of the radical corporatism and libertarianism we see. Both parties are now very involved in “free trade for megacorps.”

    2. This nation was founded as a Christian nation

    I guess as long as you mean “Christian, but not Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Armenian.” but WASP, and even then, they simply didn’t discuss this imaginary “god” during the 2nd constitutional convention at all.

    3. There is a god (and the Bible is his word, Jesus his son, etc.)
    4. The South is/always was/always will be for State’s Rights. Um, FDR got 98% of the vote in South Carolina one time.
    5. The South seceded for State’s Rights, not Slavery

    Recently disproved by an academic analysis of the debates of the southern state conventions on the eve of secession.

    —

    There is one amazing fix. Condorcet voting. Ranked ballots are being used in Australia already, and other countries (Finland, I think). The Greens and Libertarians are both idiotic, patently stupid, for supporting the IRV ranked ballot system.

  • The idea that MoveOn.org “sponsored” an ad comparing Bush to Hitler. The Repugs still use that one. It’s still wrong.

  • Of the many Clinton myths that really bug me are the idea that because Clinton says that didn’t inhale that he was therefore automatically lying –
    I went to Georgetown a few years after Clinton graduated. The place was filled with Clinton types – earnest high school student government president-types who already had their carreer path in government already mapped out in their own heads. And yes, they would go to parties, the joint would come around, they would put it to their lips and delibereately pretend to toke so as to fit in, and then pass it on with no idea of rediculous the rest of us thought it looked. Clinton waited 20 years to use his plausible deniability line – and when he did, not only did no one believe him, but it seems like absolutely no one came to his defense in the least and the “did not inhale” line, which I do believe to be true, entered the lexicon as a modern day whopper.

    Don’t get me started on the whole “meaing of ‘is’ thing”….

  • I’ll second the Al Gore myths. The two in particular that come back again and again are “Al Gore invented the internet” and “Al and Tipper were the inspiration for Love Story”. He never said any such thing in either case, and both the actual quotes were accurate statements. The Love Story one even has a third level of irony: the claim was false, but he didn’t even make it! Rather, he was quoting a report in a newspaper, which had gotten it wrong.

  • 1. Rich Santorum and James Dobson are heterosexual.

    2. President Bush would be a fun guy to share a six-pack on Labor Day weekend.

    3. President Bush doesn’t drink alcohol.

    4. Congress may impeach the President, or subject him to waterboarding, but not both.

    5. Republicans have brains, hearts and genitals.

  • 1. Reagan was the greatest president ever.

    2. Democrats have no morals.

    3. There is no difference between Democrats and Republicans.

    Josh, your statement 3 is not related to politics – it is your personal opinion.

  • Maybe it’s so obvious that it goes without saying, but RepubCo still gets credit for being the party of economic understanding and disipline and the truth is the opposite. There is no national good in their policies.

    As Josh Narins notes above: “Both parties are now very involved in “free trade for megacorps.”

    Totally true but RepubCo is better at getting away with saying what’s good for the megacorp’s is also good for America.

  • Ross Perot’s presence in the ’92 race is the only reason Clinton got elected.

    While he certainly did scramble the dynamics (and thus make it impossible to know exactly what would have happened had he not run), the fact is that on Election Day, exit polls showed that Perot voters, asked whom they would have voted for in a two-man race, split nearly down the middle.

    The Electoral College would have been much closer, but Clinton would still have won. This site provides a fairly comprehensive (and IMO, persuasive) analysis: http://www.fairvote.org/plurality/perot.htm

  • Bush is an honest “man of the people”.

    The headline of an article in my local paper on the recent polls was, “More Americans questioning Bush’s honesty”. The first sentence was, “Less than half of Americans now say they think Bush is honest”. Shouldn’t the headline be, “Most Americans questioning…”?

  • National health insurance is socialized medicine.

    Bush is a strong leader.

    Reduced taxes produce increased tax revenues.

    The link with Iraq and Al Qaida.

    Fox News is fair and balanced.

    The ACLU is a liberal organization.

    The Supreme Court is stacked with liberal
    appointees.

    Liberals are socialists.

    A couple with local (Idaho) flavor:

    The United Nations is a communist organization

    There is no such thing as the separation of
    church and state in the Constitution

  • I want to take a slightly different tack here and not list the biggest whoppers, but rather, step back and examine how some of the myths get created in the first place.

    Sometimes the right’s mythmaking is aided by the introduction of buzzwords and catchphrases into the media, which get picked up and used ad infinitum, until even the left uses them without thinking.

    Three examples of words created by the right which have helped create Bush myths:

    1. “Red state / blue state” – I believe this concept originally came out of an article by Irving Kristol (correct me if I’m wrong – it was one of the Kristols). Setting up the states into two clearly divided “camps,” “Us versus Them,” plays completely into the Rovian concept of playing to the base and minimizing the opposition. It also fits the Bush love of reducing complicated scenarios to chewy soundbites.

    2. “Weapons of Mass Destruction” – there is a huge difference between bio and chemical weapons, which are primarily of a tactical nature, despite their lethality on a local scale, and nuclear weapons. But in making the case for war with Iraq, the neocons found it convenient to lump everything together into one dire catchphrase, so that the discovery of one container of nerve gas would justify the war (and scare people) every bit as much as a stack of nuclear bombs.

    3. “insurgents” – I wouldn’t be surprised if the first person to use this term was Rumsfeld at one of his press conferences. Webster’s defines an insurgent as someone who “rises in opposition to civil authority or established leadership.” In Iraq, this implies that the violence is being caused by people who are illegally reacting to the legitimized “authority” of (a) Paul Bremer, (b) Allawi, (c) the current leadership. In fact, there is every evidence that most of the violence is being committed by Saddamite Baathists who (as part of their plan) fell back as US toops took Baghdad (remember the day they all “vanished?”), and started to fight a guerrilla war against a foreign occupier. This is no “insurgency” against “established authority” — the Baathists are fighting the occupying US forces as they always planned to. Call these forces “guerrillas,” but not “insurgents.”

    There are many more of these phrases floating around…

  • What about the myth that Casey couldn’t speak at the 1992 convention because he wasn’t pro-choice? I hear that one all the time.

  • They’ve floated a hundred rafts of crap but one of my favorite myths is the gutting of the military that supposedly happened under Carter and Clinton. Never happened.

  • Going back in time…

    1. Washington was an honest guy

    The foundation of Washington’s wealth was acquired prior to the revolutionary war by essentially defrauding the troops under his command.

    2. Lincoln took the moral high road and freed the slaves

    Sorry, the emancipation proclamation only applied to the Confederacy. And, his letters show that he was truly a man of his time, often referring to the “vile race”.

    3. Grant was a corrupt, incompetant, drunkard

    Grant did have a drinking problem as a young soldier, stationed remotely, but there is no historical evidence that he had a drinking problem later in life. Similarly, he responded to evidence of corruption in his administration swiftly and decisively. Interestingly, even his political opposition never really questioned his personal integrity, only his judgement.

    4. Hoover did nothing at the onset of the great depression

    Hoover immediately spent record levels of federal funds, but could not stop the collapse. I find Hoover’s myth particularly sad because he led a pretty remarkable life.

    5. Reagan lowered everyone’s taxes

    Only if “everyone” is limited to the wealthy. Payroll tax increases more than offset income tax cuts for many, many Americans.

    6. Bush Sr. was a Reagan conservative

    Looking at the primaries it is clear that Bush agreed more with Anderson than Reagan when it comes to fiscal policy, but his handlers reigned him in and kept his second bananna chances open.

    What I find interesting about all this is that it makes me wonder how Shrub will be remembered. Slashing taxes while waging two wars is clearly the point were the GOP abandoned any pretense of being fiscally responsible.

    But, I think that it will all hinge on indictments. If Rove, or someone else in the White House is indicted in the Plame scandal I think that history will be pretty well set. If no indictments are handed out, the squawking turds may well be able to reshape history and gloss over what is inarguably some of the most extreme incompetence we’ve seen from the WH in a long time.

    -jjf

  • I’d say it’s a myth that all democrats are for us the people. We seem to be having more and more democrats voting with the rethugs on item’s that are defineately not in American’s best interest. Cafta, bankruptcy, the lisy could go on and on.

    Howard Dean does speak for me is not a myth.

  • The war on terror.

    We’re fighting them over there so we don’t
    have to fight them here.

    Liberals are pacifists.

    The Founders were all Christians.

    Liberals are all atheists – this one is doubly galling,
    because not only is it not true, but it implies
    that atheism is something vile, which, I guess,
    leads to this one:

    The distinction between Americans and communists
    is that we are godly and they are atheists.

  • George W. Bush is a Christian…..Nothing he does would support it. If it doesn’t buy a vote he won’t even talk about it…..

    Media coverage of the War has an anti-war bias and therefore an anti-American bias…….a pure fabrication…How in the hell can you kill people and complain that the “coverage” is undermining your rationale?

    The internet has changed politics forever in this country……Mass mailing still influence the most loyal (uniformed) voters in the country….snail-mail is what is making Richard Vigurie’s of the world (operations), the religious non-profits (mailing lists) and businesses (funding) invaluable to the success of the neo-cons….look at who buys the supermarket tabloids….

  • Iraq had WMD.

    The Iraq Al Quaida link.

    W is an honest Christian.

    Reagan was a “great” president.

    James Dobson is a benevolent Christian.

    repeating – Liberals are atheists.

    The war in Iraq is a “noble cause”

    Liberals are endangering America.

    Saving the best for last…….

    The religious right is “right”!

    “1. Rich Santorum and James Dobson are heterosexual.”

    Ron Z – Love that….lmao!!!!

  • We have the best health care system / educational system / military ….. (fill in your favorite) in the world and even just looking at other systems means you hate America.

  • 1. “The liberals in Congress are responsible for all the bad things that happen in the US” (mostly those that don’t go the Republicans’ way). This was a key theme in 2004 Republican attack ads. Liberals in Congress have been systematically eliminated since the mid-90s. Whatever bad happens is the result of Repbulican incompetence and malice.

    2. “Ronald Reagan was a great president.” His truculent attitude toward government (seemingly more rhetorical than actual), repeated mindlessly in the conservative echo chamber and influencing several generations of nitwits, like Rousseau’s social theories “made madmen out of people who otherwise would only have been fools.”

  • There is one amazing fix. Condorcet voting. Ranked ballots are being used in Australia already, and other countries (Finland, I think). The Greens and Libertarians are both idiotic, patently stupid, for supporting the IRV ranked ballot system.

    Well, don’t you think IRV would be far preferable to what we have now? Condorcet also has its pitfalls . While there isn’t any perfect system (that I know of, anyhow), calling proponents of IRV idiotic and patently stupid seems, well, patently stupid. I dare say that many proponents of IRV would likely look with favor upon Condorcet and simply have never heard of it. Your comments are hardly conducive to changing their minds. Think about it.

  • I have to expound on one myth that’s been on several prior lists – that Bush is good Christian. As a Christian (albiet a liberal one), I take extraordinary exception to this assertion. Whether you believe that Jesus of Nazareth was divine or simply read his teachings as those of a moral philosopher, there is nothing of Christ in GW Bush.

    Jesus preached acceptance, inclusion, love, forgiveness, caring for the down-trodden. He railed against those who used the trappings of religion for personal profit – i.e. the money-changers in the temple. As far as I’m aware, He never advocated discrimination against gays. He never advocated violence against those who disagreed with Him. I don’t see “Blessed are those who increase share-holder stock value” amongst the Beattitudes.

    Jesus was a liberal 🙂

  • There’s no exit from Iraq.

    Oh yes there is. It’s called the “I” word.
    Impeach and convict the whole gang
    of neocon thugs.

    Then get on our hands and knees
    and aplogize to the rest of the
    world, and beg for their help to
    stabilize the country.

    One day, if we don’t learn humility,
    we’re going to find that there truly
    is one super power left on this
    earth: it’s called the rest of the
    world outside of the United States.

  • 1) We were two weeks away from winning in Vietnam.

    2) Bush is strong on terror.

    3) Democrats would win if they stopped being so confrontational and stopped opposing President Bush.

    4) Republicans are good for the economy.

    5) Republicans are strong on security.

    6) Independents will be turned off if Democrats go on the offense.

  • This is a myth which isn’t purely political but has political implications.

    Men are better than women concerning issues of leadership and innovative idea creation.

  • That we live in a democracy. It is clear from the constitution we live in a republic, our founding fathers were scared to death of true democracy. “mob rule” as it were.
    That voting can affect change. As the adage goes, “if voting could really change anything, it would be illegal.”
    As a sidenote, why are we limited to 435 represenatives in the House ? IMO it is easy enough to exercise control over a group that size. And it gives us an illusion of debate.

  • It’s a democracy, isn’t it? Majority rules,
    right?

    Jane Fonda is a traitor.

    Liberals hate their country.

    Sexuality is a choice.

    The Constitution was founded upon
    faith in God.

    Income taxes are unconstitutional.

    Global warming is a myth.

    Nobody makes any money when crude prices
    sky rocket. It’s just supply and demand.

    Peak oil is a myth.

    Government is not the solution. It’s the problem.

    The people are wiser than their leaders.

    What’s good for the economy is good for
    the people.

    The First Amendment applies only to the
    United States Congress. The states
    are free to do as they please vis a vis
    religion and free speech.

    The common cold is caused by changing
    weather, chills and getting your feet wet.
    – just wanted to know if you got this far.
    :

  • We’re not running out of oil.

    It’s a good thing for our country that small businesses were given tax breaks to purchase Hummers. (not all in capital letters on purpose!)

    Hummers get good gas mileage.

    People who drive Hummers are not wasteful.

    It makes no difference who counts your votes. The vote counts will be honest.

    We just had two fair and honest presidential elections.

    Evolution is just a theory.

    Religious people are moral.

    George Bush is religious.

    George Bush is moral.

    George Bush would never lie.

    George Bush cares about the “little guy.”

    George Bush is no longer using cocaine.

    George Bush cares about the troops in Iraq.

    George Bush cares about the families of our military dead.

    George Bush cares about YOU!

    That last statement will help you sleep well tonight. Right?

    (If I keep this up, I’m afraid I’ll become a republican!)

  • And finally, some that never were. Bet it’s been
    a long, long time since you folks thought about
    these:

    Mahummad Ali is a draft dodger.

    Mahummad Ali is a coward.

    Mahummad Ali is a traitor.

    Mahummad Ali is unamerican.

    Never happened, did it?

    How come?

    Don’t get me wrong. I believe the man
    is a true American hero. I often wish
    that more of us could have been so
    courageous.

    What a different world it might be
    today.

  • Pound for pound, I think Ron Z picked the winners, though I disagree with number 3. I think America would be much better off if Bushie was taking a few nips every night, but I don’t think he does. For that matter, a few tokes a week and perhaps an acid trip once a year could really help him put things in perspective and clear out the cobwebs, though you didn’t hear that from me.

  • 1. That you can be both a free market absolutist and a devout Christian. It’s the basis for the Republican coalition, and it’s nonsense. Jesus was a liberal who intentionally trashed the money-changers tables as a symbolic gesture of contempt for profit (as well as a likely protest of animal sacrifice, but that’s for another post).

    2. That women will generally act more compassionately and humanely when assuming leadership. Not in my experience they don’t, nor is there empirical evidence that it’s true. Lord Acton’s axiom, “Power tends to corrupt,” isn’t limited by gender. Selling out in hope of future gain seems to be an common pattern among female politicos, just like the guys. It’s about the individual, not the gender.

    3. That Republicans are conservative. Look up the meaning of the word. Now read up on the poliitical meaning of the word “conservative” in the United States since 1960. Does today’s Republican Party resemble either of these definitions? Thought not.

    4. That Democrats are liberal. Same thing. Look up the meaning and history of the words. Both parties are selling something they aren’t. Which is why our politics is so screwed up

  • Virgin Birth

    Concerning B. Jersey’s list:
    Evolution is just a theory, like gravity. Scientists should honor the skeptics with the same fervor than the religious should honor the faithful. When scientific theories are taught as truths, the evolution of science ends.

  • Adding onto #36: Driving a Hummer shows that you are patriotic. ::gag::

    #30 Jim: right on, dude.

    And, this whole phrase “culture of life”. ::multiple gag::
    Culture of life to those who spout it has such a narrow definition – saving unborn white babies in the US. Forget about minority babies, forget about Iraqi citizens of all ages. Etc.

  • The economy does better when a Republican is President. Forbes magazine did a study prior to the 2004 election that showed since WW2 the economy tends to do better when Democrats are President. There was a study in a different place that showed the stock market tended to do better under Democratic Presidents.

  • I’d say it’s a myth that all democrats are for us the people. We seem to be having more and more democrats voting with the rethugs on item’s that are defineately not in American’s best interest. Cafta, bankruptcy, the lisy could go on and on.

    Howard Dean does speak for me is not a myth.

    I’d say this is a big one. How many Democrats feel powerless to afffect change even within their own party? How many of us are tired of the DINOs that chase a non-existent middle ground instead of making a stand for equal rights, common sense, and the middle class?

    I hate knowing that I have to go to the polls and vote for a Democrat who does not support anything I believe or a Republican who does not support anything I believe or leave the vote blank.

    It’s time to take back the party. If you don’t believe in Democratic ideals, why do you call yourself a Democrat?

  • Taxes are bad.

    The vilification of taxes by the right kinda irks me. It’s like saying ‘dentists are bad’ because it hurts when you go. Well, if you went to a bad dentist, maybe dentists are bad. We need taxes, we don’t always enjoy the process, but sorry, that’s what makes things go. It’s such a cheap argument.

    Liberals hate America.

    That shouldn’t even be dignified with a response any more. When it’s said, written, whatever, the person saying it should lose all credibility.

    Government should stay away from business.

    Sorry, not true. Business runs roughshod over anything in its path. Government’s there to protect the people and therefore should play an active role. Hell, I think it should even own stock and profit from certain industries (i.e. oil).

    Privitization saves money/Bueracracy is bad.

    Another fact of life. The right beats those two ideas home cause they’re easy to understand, but sorry, it ain’t true. That’s why we’re paying private contractors 10 large a week in Iraq.

    Socialized medicine reduces the quality of health care.

    Unaffordable medical care reduces the quality of health care actually. Too many MRI’s, not enough nurses and practitioners. We need to look at health care as a whole and get more and more people into the system by making it affordable.

    John Kerry was dull.

    Lots of shit is dull, turns out the inner workings of the government is dull and tedious. No problem that Kerry was dull when he spoke about dull stuff. The guy’s a hell of a lot more interesting that GWB though.

    Kosovo should and will be independent.

    We can’t redraw the borders in Europe. All hell will break loose.

  • I think Turtle Box nails it (Comment #26). That attitude is the direct source of the vast majority of the other persistent untruths mentioned by all.

    To hear Republicans speak, to even question whether or not we are the best at something means the questioner is a traitor, or unpatriotic at best.

    And needless to say, that attitude is disgusting.

  • John Kerry was dull.

    Lots of shit is dull, turns out the inner workings of the government is dull and tedious. No problem that Kerry was dull when he spoke about dull stuff. The guy’s a hell of a lot more interesting that GWB though.

    Alex–

    All well and good, but that was a campaign, not the business of government. Confusing a popularity contest with a policy debate is why Democrats are losing. You don’t show up to a popularity contest with a bunch of facts and figures, at least, not boring ones.

  • republicans are for smaller government. how small can it be if it’s in my bedroom?

  • The people are wiser than their leaders (Comment #35) – I think that one might actually be true right now…

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