Sunday Discussion Group

Former Rep. [tag]Tom DeLay[/tag] (R-Eighth Ring) left the House this week, delivering a speech from the House floor in which the former exterminator did what he’s always done: he lashed out at his critics, blasted liberalism, insisted that he’s as pure as the driven snow, and encouraged Republicans to resist compromising on any part of the right-wing agenda.

Indeed, for a guy who has resigned in disgrace and under criminal indictment, DeLay practically preened like a peacock. He mentioned how “proud” he is of the infamous [tag]K Street Project[/tag], and in a Gecko-greed-is-good sentiment, DeLay criticized the “self-styled statesman who elevates [tag]compromise[/tag]” and praised bitter [tag]partisanship[/tag] as a guard against “[tag]tyranny[/tag].”

My friend Shaun called the speech “a study in arrogance, petulance and the very worst side of the partisanship whose virtues he proclaims. It’s inspired by the same kind of ‘whistling past the graveyard’ hubris that inspired the fecal-fed grin he slapped on for his mug shot when he was booked for the criminal indictment that forced his retirement.” That’s well said and an accurate description of DeLay’s remarks. I’m just not entirely sure if [tag]DeLay[/tag] was wrong.

Salon’s Tim Grieve argued, rather persuasively, that if you “take out the policy particulars” and overlook his history of [tag]criminal[/tag] [tag]corruption[/tag], DeLay’s broader message may have even been helpful to congressional Dems.

So how do Democrats pull off the same trick? How do they go from “docile minority” to empowered majority? DeLay knows — like the people gathered here know — that you don’t do it by caving in to the opposition or trying to be more like it. What you do is, you make the case that your way is a better way, and then you stand up and fight for yourself when anybody dares to say different.

“Now, politics demands compromise … and even the most partisan among us have to understand that, ” DeLay said Thursday. “But we must never forget that compromise and bipartisanship are means, not ends, and are properly employed only in the service of higher principles.

“It is not the principled partisan, however obnoxious he may seem to his opponents, who degrades our public debate, but the preening, self-styled statesman who elevates compromise to a first principle. For the true statesmen … are not defined by what they compromise, but by what they don’t.”

DeLay is a loathsome lawbreaker who saw no limits to his corrupt enterprise. But does he have a point about fighting for principles? If Howard Dean had delivered a similar address in 2004, would Democratic activists have nodded their heads in agreement?

“R – Eighth Ring”

Great.

Now I’ve got milk and cereal all over my computer.

  • I’ve come to the conclusion that the entire problem with contemporary politics is money. Are there philosophical differences between the 2 parties? Of course there are. Should Dems stand up and fight for what the left 1/2 of the country believes? Of course they should.
    The problem is that to achieve office, you have to raise a boatload of cash. This leaves both parties courting the same vested interests, which in turn, mutes the philosophical differences. As a result, we have what many see as repub vs repub-lite.
    I’d love to see the Dems stand up and brawl it out. In terms of policy and philosophy, we’re the majority party. Unfortunately, big money responds by pouring money into repub war chests, which in many cases, simply overwhelms our candidates.
    In the meantime, all we can do is too be more generous to Dem candidates across the country. Can we equal the clout of Wal*Mart or ATT&T? I’m pessimistic.

    So maybe we should take a ‘principled stand’ for public financing of elections – get the money out of politics. After that, the parties can duke it out strictly on ideology.

  • I’d contrast DeLay with FDR (and hope the comparison/contrast doesn’t stretch thought or language beyond the breaking point into absurdity).

    I agree you have the stand for something. All this triangulating will get us nowhere, partly because the media buffoons and bouffants already have a word for it: triangulating. We used to call it trying to fool all the people all of the time.

    The defining difference between today’s (DeLay’s) GOP and FDR is this: DeLay was a servant of the rich and therefore powerful, FDR was a power the rich came to fear because he spoke so well for the powerless.

    FDR wasn’t an ideologue. He experimented with government all the time, trying out new ideas and tossing them in favor of those which worked better. But, against much greater odds than we face (Depression, WWII) he achieved an America that became the envy of the planet.

    A key component of his success was that he held the rich (especially the bankers) in very low esteem, partly because he knew them so well. Another component was that he (and Eleanor) spoke so well of people unlike them, people who had nowhere else to turn for help. Another component was confidence that the job was worth doing – not for personal gain, but because government is the only instrument which can counter obscene greed.

    The only significant compromise I can think of, where FDR is concerned, was the alliance with the Dixiecrats. I don’t think anyone doubted where he stood, but compromise with the “solid south” was an absolute necessity if he was going to get the job done. LBJ corrected that once and for all with the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts – the last principled stand by Democrats.

    As I write this I cannot refrain from re-suggesting a Gore-Edwards ticket. Gore knows government the way FDR knew bankers; he grew up in government. And Edwards knows full well what government can do to lift people up. I hope (naively I’m afraid) the Democratic party never turns from the ideals FDR set for us.

  • I see it as more of a moral and ethical problem than in purely money terms, but politicians’ relationship to the greenback is definitely the most visible symbol of the rot that can creep into even the most well-intentioned soul that chooses to throw itself into the political arena.

    All one needs to do is watch “The Candidate” with Robert Redford from decades ago. Nothing has changed, except things are even nastier now than back when that was made.

    DeLay’s biggest mistake, in my view, is that he thinks that demonizing anyone who disagrees with him is quite all right. He’s taken the idea that anyone who disagrees is not only wrong but truly evil and should literally be destroyed to a level I’ve never seen or even heard of before. It’s that mind-set that’s given us the Coulters and Limbaughs and Hannitys that we have to endure so painfully these days.

    He and his fellow perpetrators are leading the country into a new dark age and that’s ok by him. As long as he wins, it doesn’t matter if the rest of the country goes up in smoke. And that’s the greatest error anyone can make.

  • You are dead spot on with the Gordon Gekko comment. That was absolutely a “greed is good” speech and, from the life sometimes imitates art department, here’s hoping that DeLay will get to practice the speech before some new friends dressed in orange prison garb. Funny, as things are playing out, he may very well see a lot of familiar faces. (The ironic part of that is that, just how street criminals learn more serious crimes in prison, I can imagine DeLay, Safavian, Abramoff, etc., hatching even worse crimes against the republic).

    I also think, if used right (I know, I’m a dreamer), the Dems could use his comments to their advantage, e.g., “If you’re against gridlock and partisanship, ask [republican candidate] if he agrees with Tom DeLay’s calls for more partisanship? The Republican’ts APPLAUDED DeLay when he walked out of Congress for the last time to deal with one or all of his various indictments. What did the Democrats do? They WALKED OUT because we don’t agree, and I don’t agree.” Point is, highlight the difference, a la the earlier Anne Coulter comments, ask the Republican’ts if they agree or disagree. If they hesitate or go halfway, call them on it and don’t let up.

  • Simply put, Tom DeLay is proof positive that America has its own version of Saddam Hussein. Comparing Saddam’s actions in his war-crimes trial to DeLay’s “farewell address” is like comparing one portion of a freshly-laid cowpie to another portion of the same cowpie—they’re both bovine excrement. Personally, I’m rather anxious to see whether this snarling little mouse withers-and-whimpers his way through the eventual penalty phase of his impending convictions. Given what he’s done, and also given the fact that the money-transfers occurred over state lines, it won’t suprise me if he eventually has to stand up to a federal racketeering/organized-crimes charge.

    What I’d have really liked the Dems to do is bust out in fits of uncontrolled laughter, from beginning to end, for his speech. It might haver been portrayed as “rude and unprofessional” by the conservative talking-heads—but the best way right now to beat these clowns into the dust is to stop pacifying them—and start crucifying them. Laughing endlessly at their once-powerful “martyr” would have been such a beginning….

  • I agree with getting the money out of politics, but I don’t agree that money decided the last two elections. What decided the last two elections was Republican vote theft. There are no two ways about that. Until that is cleared – dirty tricks, registration obstruction, electronic manipulation, the lot – the democratic will of the American people cannot be freely and accurately expressed.
    By all accounts the majority favoured the Democratic candidate in 2000 and 2004 but the election, through various documented tricks, fiddles, frauds, thefts, hacks, threats, obstructions and shreddings was awarded to the minority candidate.
    Until that is rectified (see some interesting suggestions at Firedoglake, comment #22) the majority wish of the American people, who undoubtedly want rid of the incumbent gang, will continue to be subverted, no matter how much money is poured into advertising, or how clever the triangulation, challenges or debate.

  • Albert Einstein while talking about the creative process said, in a nineteenth century metaphor, “Conviction is a good mainspring, but it is a poor regulator.” This is true of politics as well.

    DeLay in his valedictory tries to cast himself as driven by his conviction to principle rather than a lust for power or desire of money. The question put to us is not whether this is true or not but whether Democrats should act out of conviction to principle. Of course the answer is yes. However, they should also keep in mind Albert Einstein’s aphorism about the creative process which applies to politics as well, “Conviction is a good mainspring, but it is a poor regulator.” Giving DeLay the benefit of the doubt, let us assume that he was driven by conviction to principle. His problem was not with the mainspring; it was with the regulator. Therein lies the lesson for the Democrats.

  • Steve, I think you set up a false dichotomy. “Compromise” and “standing for principles” are not an all-or-nothing choice (however much contemporary politics makes it seem that way). Should Dems be much more firm in their convictions, much more assertive in promoting and defending them? Sure. Are Dems both morally and strategically wrong to simply aspire to be Republican’ts-Lite rather than the loyal opposition? Ballot box history appears to say so.

    But that does not mean we should become The Hammer. It does not mean we should fall into this macho nonsense that has made a mess of the country (and the world) and buy into the “compromise is weakness” mantra of the overcompensating men on the Right. Compromise is not weakness — compromise is governing. Compromise is intellectual recognition that the majority of Americans are not ideologues. Compromise is about results rather than posturing — and this country has had enough posturing without results to last several lifetimes. Perhaps most important to helping thie country become much less dysfunctional is that lack of compromise is a key factor in incivility, the pox that is destroying our entire governing format.

    The real key is for leaders and governors to have a well developed mix of principles, ideas, firmness, strength as well as compromise, adaptability, pragmatism, and civility. Most of the public cares more about results than speeches. Most of the public holds beliefs that do not align purely with either party’s platform. Instance on dogmatic purity by either party — and especially the more intense wings of either party — only assures that the interest of the majority are horribly unserved.

    Clinton’s Morris-driven “triangulation” gave a bad name to the search for a “third way,” but the concept is sound. Leaders need to be creative problem solvers, not rote regurgitators of hardcore sound bites. Leaders need to try and bring about broad public backingfor their ideas, not just respond to polls. But when they cannot get broad backing, it serves no purpose other than destroying institutions to use improper ends to acheive those means (holding votes open all night while bribing colleagues, for example, is not something we should ever emulate). At the end of the day politics remains the art of the possible (look how much we’ve complained on these boards about the FMA being a waste of time because its failure was a foregone conclusion). Learing what is possible requires a willingness to work with the other side. Most — and particularly the mostly apolitical majority in this country — expect that true leaders will do so. We are not warring countries; we are the divergent voices of leadership in a single country that at some basic level needs to pull together. That cannot happen if we lock each other out of committee meetings, literally or rhetorically.

    Ideological purity is a nice hallmark of totalitarian states. We were founded, quite successfully, by men who held divergent beliefs but knew how to hash them out for the greater good. We should not hold this lost art in disdain; we should seek to reclaim it before it is entire forgotten in our increasingly failing system of democratic governance.

  • DeLay stands on principal (and interest). He has not the slightest intestest in principles that stand in the way.

    But how different is he from most successful politicians?

    The system of campaign financing by special interests is a screening device to filter out those who would choose principle over principal.

    To hear any congressperson talk of principles while they pander for special interest contributions is a joke. The ninth ring is a bipartisan requirement for office.

  • “Ninth Circle. Traitors, distinguished from the “merely” fraudulent in that their acts involve betraying one in a special relationship to the betrayer”

  • Actually, that last paragraph from DeLay is quite accurate, and we can see in the professional morons of the D.C. Democrats how right the statement is.

    I had the privilege 20 years ago to know Billy Wilder as a “fellow screenwriter,” and to be educated by him regarding my craft. Too often in Hollywood, as in Washington, people do things for “the mortgage,” not from belief. Wilder said you could always tell a movie that had been made for those reason because you didn’t believe anything about it. And for him it was always the fault of the script and the screenwriter. As he put it, “If you don’t believe in it, why should anyone else?” It was the best piece of advice I ever got about writing.

    And you can see the same thing in politics. People who believe in nothing more than staying in office comfortably, asking the rest of us to believe in them enough to sacrifice something: time, money, energy, whatever.

    And that’s why these “movement conservatives” have done what they have done. As Paul Weyrich put it to Bill Moyers on one of his last episodes of NOW: “Every morning for the past 40 years, I wake up and ask myself, what can I do to advance the cause today?”

    So hell yes, DeLay is right on this one (though his examples would all be wrong):

    “It is not the principled partisan, however obnoxious he may seem to his opponents, who degrades our public debate, but the preening, self-styled statesman who elevates compromise to a first principle. For the true statesmen … are not defined by what they compromise, but by what they don’t.”

    That, ladies and gentlemen, takes BELIEF in what you are doing. And when you believe it, others do, too.

  • How do you ALWAYS know you’re “right” where compromise isn’t warranted…(answer: when you’re being paid)…? No matter how wise and righteous one is, errors in judgement/vision will be made. And as a representative of ALL the people, compromises will be part of governing over “all.”

    The current incarnation of the GOP is only advocating for the wealthy and the christianists – a small constituency – and so they lose their moral authority and their lack of compromise is not out of fairness to all, and so always leaves a bit of a smell…

    The DeLay/Bushco form of bullying partisanship is an example of what the GOP NEEDS to do to “win.” They are willing (and eager and use it as a badge of belonging – much like the christianists so eager to suffer for their christ’s sake to prove their righteousness…just sad. As an aside, why is it that conservatives seem to group themselves around clubs, organzations, parties, (military, religions, corporations) that require a blind loyalty – why are they always so eager to throw away their will and individuality…it’s just sad…) to cheat and lie and steal to win. They do not possess more than a third of the country’s allegiance without wedge issues and fear. Keeping people ignorant is tough work and only works for so long. It actually is hard work keeping people ignorant. Information just has a way of seeping in…remember Clinton’s statement, that as long as people are thinking, we will win. Truer words are rarely spoken…

    Which doesn’t mean the Dems aren’t the biggest pussies around.

  • There is such a distance between what Tom DeLay practiced and what you, CB, think he’s preaching that it’s hard to draw any lesson from his comments other than “fight on.” Now that, I think, is the message we need to take very, very seriously!

  • I like Ed Stephen’s post.

    Unfortunately the wave of time long ago swept away those who remember the ideals and language of FDR.

    I wonder if a greater percentage of poor people voted in FDR’s era?

    If significantly more turned out… how did the democratic party lose those who most need to vote for their own self-interests?

    What I am trying to say here is pretty clear:

    A class war (with Delay in charge) is being lead from the top down.

    I see no response being lead from the bottom up.
    None at all.
    Nil.

    It is as if it is unpatriotic to suggest that poor people should vote their own self-interests. Yet it is perfectly okay for the rich to vote for their self-interests.

    The answer to the original discussion is thus:

    Yes, a determined counterweight to Delay is definitely needed. Someone who speaks the dreams and hopes of the poor.

    Where is s/he?

    When a culture has a need… doesn’t such a person soon appear to answer the call? Or is that just fable?

  • Nothing wrong with compromise, but no, it’s not a guiding principle, and end in itself, but rather a means to one. However, what is the point of compromise if one of the party’s so called-principles is a morally debased one? The funny thing is that the Republicans are fighting hard and winning in a very partisan manner, for things which noone of principle should stand for. And yet, despite this, the Democrats cant find enough backbone to stand against it. That, IMO is what is wrong here.

    If the Republicans stood for lynching, should the Dems say, well, ok, we can have a little lynching, if we get x, y and z that we want. Hell no. So there is no point compromising with ideas that are taking this country into the dustbin of history.

    Its odd that Democrats have the sound principles on their side, yet noone on their team can stand for them and argue for them in a way which all these self-righteous relilgious voters can connect with. With the hoards of religious moralists out there, why is it that they stick to anti-abortion and homophobia yet cast aside all the other guiding principles which religious types are supposed to adhere to. Sounds like a bunch of hypocrites being led by a bunch of criminals.

  • Delay’s power grab was based on governmental control, not promotion of the conservative philosophy even if that’s the sheeps clothing he wrapped it up in.

    A review of a new biography of Huey Long in the 6/12/06 The New Yorker has this quote from Long, “Always take the offensive, the defensive ain’t worth a damn”.

    Not a genius level thought, but it’s been an effective touchstone for Delay, Rove, Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz, Abramoff, Skilling, Ebbers and many other corporate and political players who have achieved, (and in some cases, lost), power and wealth through hubris, persistance, connections and more hubris.

    RepubCo isn’t going to become a group of high minded statesmen. They will continue to play as hard and opportunistically as circumstances allow. They are only as chastened as they have to be and not one scintilla more.

    This is where the need for a firm plan by Dems is imperative. Just catapulting the angst of “being against RepubCo” may feel rightous but it moves nothing forward. It’s hard to get on the offensive when there’s nothing solid to lean into. Does the Dem philosophy provide the tools within itself to generate persuasive “offensive” tactics and enthusiasm? Or is the only means to real power in the early 21st Century just money and connection?

    W.W.F.D.R.D.?

  • Ed — Good post, but I disagree on one point you make. I would argue that America is facing greater odds today than FDR did. Although the country faced many problems during Roosevelt’s time I don’t think that the principles of our democracy itself have ever been under greater assault.

  • Democracy no longer exists . Only two parties, both are run by shameless shabbas goys for the benefit of minority parasites. That’s why this country is looking more and more like the crumbling, totalitarian of Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four (1949), where only the thought-police work properly.

    That’s why it’s so ludicrous that MAJORITY voters i e Whites are switching from red to blue, It’s like putting down a glass of cyanide and picking up a glass of strychnine, because both DEM-REP using their power not for the majority but for the parasites minority.

    Orwell’Animal Farm (1945):
    An uproar of voices was coming from the farmhouse. They rushed back and looked through the window again. Yes, a violent quarrel was in progress. There were shoutings, bangings on the table, sharp suspicious glances, furious denials. The source of the trouble appeared to be that Napoleon and Mr. Pilkington had each played an ace of spades simultaneously. Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

  • Koreyel (#16) – Working people voted in a greater numbers then. Their unions were far more active (some even violently). Today’s “workers” are mostly white collar; they think they’re in the “middle class” so they have no need to organize. They’re in for a rude awakening, imho. “When a culture has a need… doesn’t such a person soon appear to answer the call?” I don’t think so. Otherwise there wouldn’t be so many cultures in history’s graveyard.

    Marcus (#19) – I had in mind, not a threat to our democratic principles, but a threat to our existence as a nation. The Depression spawned Fascism and Nazism, both aimed at ridding the earth of capitalistic nations such as ours, at the point of a gun if necessary. And it wasn’t just the “enemy without” either – such luminaries as Charles Lindbergh and Prescott Bush (Shrub’s Grandpa) sided with the Nazis as the wave of the future. We didn’t know Keynesian methods for controlling the boom-and-bust cycles which Marx predicted would do in capitalism; in fact, we knew very little about capitalism beyond Herbert Spencer’s “war of each against all”.

    We do have more serious problems now, as you suggest — energy, environment, universal health care, employment, corralling the corporations, population control, HIV, emerging nations, etc. But at least we can identify them and propose remedies for them. They didn’t have that sense until FDR came on the scene. Now our task must be to redirect our government toward pursuit of those problems, rather than the GOP’s effort to pretend they don’t exist all.

  • North America is entering a Weimar-style economic period of recession and inflation. Historically, only a Hitler will be able to restore economic stability and prosperity. The ZOG is creating the need for the leader they fear: the jewish dilemma repeats, and there is no escape from it.

  • Delay absolutely has a point about being principled in the political arena. Say what you want about his methods, but the man got results. The Republican Party is still in a very strong position thanks in part to Delay’s “principles.”

    Had 2004 presidential candidate Howard Dean given a similar speech to party activists there’s no doubt they would have applauded long and loud. If he made the same speech as party chairman, he’d have the same response from some of the party faithful. Dean’s able to appeal to a section of the party that’s passionate about taking strong positions and sticking with them.

    But I think ultimately a move like that on Dean’s part now would fizzle. Dean isn’t in an popularly elected position, and Democratic congressional leaders would trip all over themselves to distance themselves from his comments. Nor do I think anyone within the ranks is going to step forward with a speech that galvanizes the party. The only principle that seems to lead Democrats now is political expediency, which hardly rallies the party faithful.

  • “The Enemy Within” is our good little goose-stepper “zogusa”, and you can see him using his little neo-Nazi identifyer here – ZOG (Zionist Occupation Government).

    So, little boy Nazi wannabee, does mommy know you’re using the computer? Have you every thought of using super Clearasil for that volcano face you’ve got, fatboy??? Too badcomputers are now so user friendly that sub-lemurs like you, who lack opposable thumbs and frontal lobes, can use them.

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