Sunday Discussion Group

The New York Times’ John Tierney’s most recent column touched on an issue that’s gaining more and more traction of late.

Republicans in Washington did not abandon their principles lightly. When they embraced “compassionate conservatism,” when they started spending like Democrats, most of them didn’t claim to suddenly love big government.

No, they were just being practical. The party’s strategists explained that the small-government mantra didn’t cut it with voters anymore. Forget eliminating the Department of Education — double its budget and expand its power. Stop complaining about middle-class entitlements — create a new one for prescription drugs. Instead of obsessing about government waste, bring home the bacon.

But as long as we’re being practical, what do Republicans have to show for their largess? Passing the drug benefit and the No Child Left Behind Act gave them a slight boost in the polls on those issues, but not for long. When voters this year were asked in a New York Times/CBS News Poll which party they trusted to handle education and prescription drugs, the Republicans scored even worse than they did before those bills had been passed.

Meanwhile, they’ve developed a new problem: holding the party together.

Tierney, of course, is not a disinterested observer. An unabashed libertarian, Tierney laments the GOP’s direction because they haven’t done enough to make him (and people who share his ideology) happy — they’ve spent too much and made the government too big.

The consequence, as Tierney sees it, is that the delicate coalition of moralists and libertarians that helped lead Republicans dominate as the majority party in DC now finds its coalition unraveling. No GOP faction is getting what it wants — and each faction holds their intra-party rivals responsible.

Tierney’s headline was, “Can This Party Be Saved?” To a certain extent, it sounds like a silly question: the party that allegedly needs “saving” currently controls every branch of the government, and up until fairly recently, was openly speculating about a “permanent” majority.”

But all of a sudden, it’s a question that doesn’t seem quite as absurd anymore.

The column coincides with a similar piece in Insight magazine, an off-shoot of Sun Myung Moon’s far-right Washington Times, which suggests in its latest issue that the rift in the GOP is big and getting bigger.

President Bush has been trying to maintain a united Republican Party amid flagging conservative support and a split with the GOP’s liberal wing.

The two wings are so far apart that party strategists no longer envision a united front for the November congressional elections. The strategists said many of the [liberal Republicans], already alienated from the White House, have been campaigning as opponents of the president in an effort to win re-election as part of an expected Democratic Party sweep of Congress.

Some of this (such as the notion that there’s a reasonably sized group of “liberal Republicans”) seems overwrought. What’s more, much of the speculation seems like pre-election rationalizing from a party that appears poised for a rough campaign cycle.

But is there something to the broader argument? If the Republican ascendancy has peaked, are we hearing the early grumblings of a party that may soon be overwhelmed by infighting?

And if so, who’ll end up winning the intra-party struggle?

The old adage of “divide and conquer” takes on a partial life of its own in this instance, with the GOP seemingly doing the dividing themselves—and leaving only the conquest for the opposition. This could, if exploited by a multiple-front offensive on the part of liberals, progressives, and disenfranchised Republican moderates, leave both the Libertarian and Funda-Vangelist factions of the GOP crippled beyond any hope of complete recovery.

That portion of the voting populace who might be described as “disenfranchised Republicans” will reject the Reich’s message of Theofascist hatred. They will strive against the message and, in doing so, possibly begin a migration towards the Left—forming what I referred to some weeks earlier as “the Conservative wing of the Democratic Party.” At the other end of the spectrum, the “Hard-Left” will slide somewhat further to the Left, thus creating a philosophical void on the Right side of the Dem-curve which can then be filled by this new “Conservative” component. And, the Democratic Mainstream becomes the Center, or Moderate, faction of the Party.

If the Democratic Party can successfully play the “Inclusiveness” card to the point of maintaining a functional coalition—without reverting to the “attack the other guy” mentality (refer to yesterday’s discussion on October 5th for a few really good examples of why the Democratic Party also has its own “fissures”)—then the GOP will be left with three disparate components—the antiquated life-membership types who can be compared to the “old guard” of the USSR, the Libertarians who will never come to power, and the Theofascists who, in all likelihood, have lost what little credibility they ever possessed beyond their “bunker-mentality” base. Between these three—each being intractably separated, and those no longer willing to compromise their unique ideologies in favor of a “grand coalition,” I really cannot see any one faction that will, in the end, actually “win” the intra-party struggle.

The first group will eventually die off—and they cannot rule from the grave.

The second group will never garner more than a few meager percentage points in any large-scale election, and at best will pull (maybe) 6-to-7% of the vote.

The third, although capable of garnering votes in the double-digit range, will continue to spew their vitriolic venom against a People who are, to an ever-increasing degree, able to look beyond the smoke and mirrors to see “the smallish man behind the big black curtain.”

So—rather than trying to figure out who’s going to take over the smoldering remains of the GOP once the smoke clears, maybe the greater question should be how to prevent a similar self-destruction within the Dem rank-and-file? It certainly cannot be the practice of beating one faction over the head with the ideologies of another faction, or throwing insults at one group because they seek to do something that the other group disagrees with—because, that’s what broke the GOP in the first place….

  • “Momma died today. Or maybe it was yesterday. I don’t know. I got one of them ‘internets’ from the home telling me. I decided to take the two o’clock limo, because that’s what I do. I decide.” From L’Decidere by Georges Busheois

    Oops sorry, you caught me reading…in a BOOK! Ha Ha.

    Now discussion time:

    It seems that the Republicans are still defining themselves in real-world terms. They had this sort of Ross Perot caricauture of a philosophy that appealed to the penuriousness of people held up against a perception of an all-meddling government of do-gooders. But this is the first time they’ve had real power and you know the saying about absolute power. There was always a mismatch between the pro-business people (government is where business gets its power) and the relgionists who both wanted government out of their lives and wanted that same government to get into other peoples’ lives to enforce their version of morality on the country. The Republicans are patchwork of the selfish. And George Bush was exactly what their karma demanded.

  • Dale is essentially right. All political parties are coalitions. And the Republican party is a patchwork of selfishness–from the anal-retentive super-rich to the intolerant Christo-fascist to the xenophobia and neo-racist pickup truck-driving redstaters. With apologies to Anthony Burgess, the Republicans are “a patchwork (of) red.”

  • “If the Republican ascendancy has peaked, are we hearing the early grumblings of a party that may soon be overwhelmed by infighting?”

    As a culture watcher I think of it this way:

    How long can any political entity sustain itself in the face of such blatant failures?

    Iraq is an F-
    The budget is an F-
    Katrina is an F-
    Anti-science agenda is an F-
    Drug reform is an F-
    Domestic security is an F-

    What are the props holding up this blob?
    And how can a party sustain itself under the weight of such obvious failures?

    The answer is it can’t. Especially when you realize that deep in the heart of the Republican party atom are two repulsive particles which we can fractionate out using this filter:
    Those that believe in science and those who do not.

    In America, and especially in the Republican party, these two forces are going to have it out. It is an inevitable war that can have only one ending:

    The barefoot people will lose…

    So in the end, the people who do not believe in science are going to be sent packing. They will form their own party. They will fractionate themselves out into pure tribes of believers. Then fractionate out again into more pure tribes.
    Until they are powerless as they are mean.
    These indeed will be the “children left behind” as the greater culture embraces once again science, learning, and a more pacific ilk of Christianity.

    All of this will happen…
    Do you believe me?

  • Koreye forgot immigration. But, most of all, he/she forgot the most important equation: The Democrats have not offered an original idea on any of the topics identified as failures.

    Dean and Pelosi are too busy throwing bombs. The article on Ms. Nancy in Time was a real eye opener. She admitted that she purposely avoided any bi-partisan work in Congress because politics was/is the first order of the day. Revealing.

    And that, my friend, is why the status quo continues to beat the drum. On top of that, the press was more interested in hyping a feeding frenzy with JonBenet.

  • The Republican party as a smoking ruin? I sure wish. But I’ll believe it when I see it.

    These guys have long had a knack for pulling it all together in order to keep power. Whatever the rhetoric, battling with rivals inside a ruling coalition beats screaming over scraps among the losing side, and they know it.

  • The Democrats have not offered an original idea on any of the topics identified as failures. –Jack

    I’m not sure original ideas — meaning new ideas– are what is needed for these areas of failure. I think what Democrats have are original ideas meaning going back to our original ways of doing things. Not doing things in this screwed up Bush way where every motive is an ulterior one.

    Such as in going back to containing Iraq rather than the mess of corruption and failure the US is pursuing there under Bush. Such as going back to not providing humongous tax breaks for the wealthy. Such as not appointing incompetent political operatives to run FEMA. Such as going back to the original respect for science. Such as going back to helping seniors instead of trying to help HMOs make an extra buck off them.

    So the Dems have plenty of “originality”. In a sense they are the true conservatives–conserving the fairly responsive governmental ethos that had evolved since Roosevelt.

  • So, jack, what ‘original ideas’ do you normally offer to criminals?

    Do you tell a thief how to steal better?

    Do you tell a murderer how to kill better?

    –Tell us something we don’t know, or jack it in.

  • Why should Dems offer original ideas? The way Repubs are clamoring for them probably means they have depleted their straw men reserves. An example: To fix social security, simply remove the cap. All the shrill, brutal anti-tax rhetoric since FDR would then dominate the SCLM removing the focus away from GOP failures.

    No thanks.

  • But as long as we’re being practical, what do Republicans have to show for their largess? Passing the drug benefit and the No Child Left Behind Act gave them a slight boost in the polls on those issues, but not for long. When voters this year were asked in a New York Times/CBS News Poll which party they trusted to handle education and prescription drugs, the Republicans scored even worse than they did before those bills had been passed.

    People instinctively understand the idea of ‘bang for the buck’. When it’s poor, you get ‘bloated, wasteful government’. In this category goes Ketchup flow-rate studies, truly awful model cities programs, $500 hammers for the Army, and the usual list that drives people nuts.
    When it’s good, you get popular government programs. Social Security, The GI bill, and FHA loans come to mind.
    The Dem’s record with this is checkered. After 30 years or so, enough had accumulated in the first category for repubs to bludgeon us with ‘big, wasteful government.’ The repubs had a very real opportunity to build a permanent majority, if they could master ‘bang for the buck’.
    They failed as spectacularly here as they are in the Mid East. They can only dream of owning a checkered record. I can’t think of a single repub initiative from the last 6 years that has a favorable bang/buck for working people. Forget big or small government. The repubs have become the party of purely wasteful government.

  • Look, the Repubs papered over the conflicting interests of Wall St. and Main St. with Hallmark Card patriotism and Sunday suit religiosity. They had a brand which held wide appeal during good times. They could even wink at their racist base while claiming a big tent agenda. Ah yes, good times…

    People like war, so long as they’re winning and people like being told what to do, so long as the leaders seem to know where they are going. People also know when they’ve been lied to. So the GOP is not only splitting, but their audience is deserting them in waves.

    People don’t want new ideas. New ideas got us into this shithole in the first place. Foresight, judgement and competence; prudence, compassion and dedication are not ideas, they are qualities; qualities which, since the Repux lack them alltogether, the Democrats can win by emphasising.

  • But all of a sudden, it’s a question that doesn’t seem quite as absurd anymore.

    Yeah, but does it matter? If they’ve already won (if Dems’ November gains turn out to be short-lived or don’t happen) then we’re just looking at the history of the winners and the question doesn’t even matter for us. But if you’re still going to struggle and the Dems are going to try to make the most of their present situation, the question is, what can you parlay it into.

    It’s kind of a matter of, will this just be an untied shoelace that will make the Republicans will pause their stride a sec to crouch down and tie (and then get up and keep going), or will it be one that we’ll make them trip over.

    As fa as the disappointment over the spending-strategy, I see this as a kind of “asshole v. nice guy” type thing. It’s like all those strategies the asshole uses to beat you to the girl. If there’s something interesting about you, the guy notices it and tries to have more to say about that thing that the girl found interesting. Then she ends up running off with the asshole.

    If the girl stays with the asshole for any period of time, though, she ends up realizing that he doesn’t have the real good stuff– that’s he’s just petting her to shut her up and keep her around. For the good stuff, you’ve got to stay with the good guy.

    So when the Republicans offer spending and they don’t really mean it because they’re trying to be “compassionate” that’s why people end up being disappointed with it and it ends up not working. That’s exactly what’s happening, so that’s kind of the narrative you have to tell people so they can be able to intellectualize what’s going on.

  • There’s a faction, which is getting what it wants from the Republican Party: the new class of corporate CEOs and CEO wannabees, who have been robbing the country blind, destroying unions, threatening to abolish to personal tort, and generally screwing the middle class to inflate their own compensation. They are the financial backbone of the Republican Party. They run the corporate right-wing Media (see Disney, path to 9/11), they run the oil companies, Media companies and pharma companies, who practically own the Republican Congress.

    John Tierney and his libertarianism are just jesters in the court of Republican Power. Libertarianism is a front, window dressing to disguise the fascist, authoritarian, corporatist agenda of the real core of the Republican Party.

  • Yet on the nightly news the headline will be the “Democrats in Disarray” “Directionless Democrats” “no cohesive message”. Does Tim Russert even know about this Republican difference of opinion?

  • From Whigs to Free Soilers, the Republican party has tended to be a big tent of authoritarian-minded Americans: willing only to allow limited government to serve as an effective security blanket for their own interests. It is difficult for a party as such to allow for open dialogue, open-ended independent inquiry, and the like. Whomever has captured the moment within the party’s history has used coersion to reign in the other persuasions. Currently we are witnessing the faith-based authoritarian minded branch of the party have its way.

    With the fine mess this Administration has gotten us into, the party in control is exactly in a state of crisis: the prevailing power of the party is wavering, disinterest among the subordinate persuasions is rising, and control is possibly about to be lost. I think our brethern in the party of power are in need of some sort of therapy to make themselves right. Very shortly they may be suffering from post ’06 election trauma as they continue riding their political juggernaut!

    Vote the Rascals Out in ’06 and ’08! -Kevo

  • Who’ll win the intra-party struggle?

    I think if the Repubs either lose complete control of congress in November or take a big hit, they’ll modify and soften their positions and tactics for 2008. Slowly, very slowly, the effect of the usual divisive slime is losing its power.

    In good times (2000) people will play with their votes. In nervous times (2004) people are reluctant to change. From time to time, the U.S. simply goes mad for awhile, and the Bush era is an example. I think we’ve reached the “hangover/I’ll never do that again” time. The rational Republicans will adopt a more acceptable explanation for Iraq, as well as something that looks like a plan for extraction.

    The historic Republican base (the party of Dirkson and Rockefeller) is genuinely conservative and dislikes Bush, but is severely weakened . Now the party’s base is dominated by the growing power of younger, Hannitized cutthroats. In the short term the young crowd will fight to retain power within the party, which means the GOP as a whole will be too divided to win in 2008.

    I think a “stealth factor” may affect Republican voting. They’re glued to Bush and his disastrous policies, so they’ll have to figure out a way to counter that with non-ideological voters, and find some way to save face for having supported the idiot. Otherwise they’re going to lose.

    The Democrats, as mentioned above, will have to avoid the same fate. And they WILL have to propose “new ideas.” Clinton was a master at stealing Republican ideas and modifying them to fit Democratic and mainstream sensibilities. And as mentioned in other posts, “new ideas” are always old ideas rediscovered.

    Finally, I think the Democrats should study John Edwards’ campaigning in 2004. People, including some Republicans I know, were drawn to his optimism and easily understood message. He never sounded extreme and the Repubs had a hell of time attacking him. The party should also study the success of the “Reagan Effect.”

  • The libertarians gave up a lot when they hitched their wagon to the Republican’t party. In fear of all the Democrats had done, they listened to the lies of the “starve the beasts” theorists and found, to their (hopefully) dismay that Republican’ts want Government to be big enough to oppress all Americans who might want something other than what the rest of the Republican’t coalition wants.

    Little things like freedom of religion and freedom of speech and a free press.

    Why this was not obvious to the libertarians who signed up with the Republican’t party, I don’t know. I saw it years ago.

  • I think that Bruce Wilder has hit it on the head. Follow the money.
    The new Corporate-fascist elite will use and fund whichever party they think to win, they don’t care, as long as they stay in control .
    Until we eliminate corporate personage, we can expect no changes.

  • When the GOP unites solely for the purpose of winning elections it’s hard to beat them. They have the big money and the party discipline — not to mention their brazen willingness to break the law (illegal contributions, rigged voting machines) — to pull it off, especially compared with Democrats who often seem more interested in making their many differing ideological points, or questioning Hamletlike where the Party should be going, or simply in being “nice”, than in winning at the polls.

    But just as the GOP can be extremely effective at winning, they also are torn by other, often countervailing, extremes. The Libertarians, as such, would rather lose than give up their egocentric selfishness and purity of message. The Big Business types often detest associating with regular party low-lifes and hacks (what? no caviar and Omaha filet mignon from Ruth Chris and single-malt Scotch?). The pro-war military and related industrial types see both those groups as a threat to national purpose and preparedness (not to mention Purity of Essence). And the religious wackos would often be just as happy handling snakes, shouting “Hallelujah” and sniffing incense as they would hobnobbing with Mammon (as for the poor among you, forget that).

    Truth in packaging: I have a dog (Samoyed) and three cats (mixed), and I love them all. That said, Democrats are more like dogs – they can and do get into territorial skirmishes, but they’re mostly pack animals and, once they come to know each other, they’re lost without their friends in the group (including humans). Republicans tend to be more like cats, loners who each pursue an often separate path; “herding a bunch of cats” is an apt description of a very rare event. I think 1994 may have been such an event under Newt’s leadership, and we as a nation are now coming more into balance, with the GOP showing its true colors. I wouldn’t want to be Ken Mehlman just now. Actually, I’d never want to be that sorry son of a bitch, but especially now the rats are leaving the good ship GOP.

    Now, if the Democrats can just keep their eye on the prize.

  • For years, we’ve all been worried about what, if anything, the Democrats stand for, and sensitive to the criticism that the Democrats aren’t so much a party as an amalgam of interest groups that intermittently try to collaborate for victory and to divide the spoils of same.

    It’s now clear that all these questions apply as well or better to the Republicans, and it seems likely to me that just as the Democrats lost power just as they lost relevance to what majorities of Americans thought about and worried about and became ever more obsessed with their own interest groups, this is now happening to the Republicans.

    But it’s not just because of the parties and what they do or don’t do. Parties come to power and start to dominate because their views, coherent or not, seem to speak better to the conditions of the moment. The Republicans seemed more relevant, I guess, from about 1980-2000, as the Cold War peaked and ended and our culture seemed to change rapidly. We’re now used to the changes: bigotry and homophobia don’t really play anymore, and few if any (aside from Tierney and his Libs) now worry that government is too big or the regulatory system too constraining. What’s needed now is a better way to use our national resources in meeting economic and security challenges and forging something like a new consensus on divisive cultural issues.

    Between these two sets of forces–what’s going on in the parties themselves and what’s going on in the larger society–and as always with the caveat that unforeseeable events can change everything, the next few years should be good ones for both Democrats and the more moderate Republicans.

  • This Republican run will have very long tails:
    1. More conservative Supreme Court
    2. Increasing debt that will cripple the Dem’s abilities to do much of anything more progressive once they regain control.
    3. The war that will have US troops in Iraq for at least another 10 to 15 years.
    4. Kicking the big issues — global warming, oil dependency, social security, and Medicare — further down the road.

    All in all, I’d say that far from being failures, they have succeeded immensely in advancing the conservative agenda and crippling the federal government. So, no, this is no premature end. We’ll be living with this for quite some time.

  • Lou makes an excellent point. Add that most of the debt comes in the form of money paid out to corrupt cronies and corps with strong Repug ties and it is clear that even a setback for a couple of election cycles is nothing they can’t weather.

    I’m still not convinced that the Reagan legacy won’t still hold. Reagan abandoned any sense of fiscal responsiblity and spent lavishly – on greedy corporate friends. He also brought shock troops into the fold for grass roots electioneerign by publicly embracing extreme right social values.

    Like the plant in ‘Little Shop of Horrors’, neither the GOP or their dirtbag corporate masters are going to be happy with the chicken feed than passed for handouts and sweetheart deals a few decades ago. Not after tasting the all out pork fest of the last 5 years.

    Similiarly, the loon leaders on the right aren’t going to willingly go back into obscurity now that they have tasted being on National TV and having people woo them. They’ll bitch and whine to jockey for position, but where to go? Dems, whom they’ve villified? A powerless third party? I say they’ll stick with Repugs.

    Failure to stand on principle isn’t limited to the repugs. I, for one, was disgusted to see NARAL stick with Little Joe in CT. Again, it is trading principle for what is perceived as influence. Like they say, power corrupts, even when the ‘power’ is largely an illusion.

    -jjf

  • In terms of ideology, the Republican party makes no sense. But then it has never made any sense. Parties aren’t about ideology; they’re marketing tools. And the Republicans have been extremely successful since 1968 by marketing exactly one message: resentment against the country’s perceived elite. Again, never mind whether or not this perceived elite (intellectuals, educators, judges, media, etc) actually exists, has a cohesive ideology itself, or has any power. The point is the Republicans invented it, then ran against it, and (usually) won.

    This strategy appealed to a working majority of voters: evangelicals in the south, wannabe ranchers/miners in the west, angry bigots in the northeast & midwest. It’s been fraying a bit lately, as the northeastern bigots get replaced by their more open-minded offspring, but it still wins elections, and in gerrymandered, short-attention-span America, winning a few elections is enough to grant a smart party leverage to win several more.

    So the question isn’t, will the coalition hold? The real question is, will the strategy keep working? Unfortunately, I think it will, for another 5-10 yrs or so. It takes a lot to get people to switch affiliations; and a lost, pointless war or the negligent obliteration of a major city aren’t going to do it. It takes a social revolution, on the order of the empowerment of southern blacks (which made the South Republican) or the deindustrialization of the north (which broke the back of northern labor unions and made the northeast & midwest at least competitive for Republicans).

    And I don’t see epochal changes like that happening, yet. So the Republicans will keep coming up with new grounds for resentment – this fall it will be “Who lost Iraq?” – and keep winning elections.

  • Koryel – you forgot to things, and they are pretty much the most important.

    1) the rich ARE getting richer; much richer

    2) GDP still looks ok, even though the economy is in shambles.

    there are enough morons out there that voted the first time against the reality of their pocketbooks, so you sort of have to assume that it would take nearly a depression to wake these people up. As for the rich, times couldnt be better. In fact, they are the best ever.

    Now, what’s the monkey wrench in all this? It’s what I mentioned over a year ago here, that will ultimately be the undoing, and we are watching it in slow motion right now – the housing bubble bust and the ensuing major league recession.

    Stay tuned, because we have just started the descent…

  • I, too, am going to hold off popping any champagne corks to celebrate the demise of the current incarnation of Republican power. Yesterday I read two posts at Josh Marshall’s TPM site that seemed related to each other and somewhat relevant to this discussion. The first post referred to comments by a “Republican strategist” that said Republicans had not yet spent more than 20% of their funds in targeted races. The second post referred to the race between Jim Talent and Clair McCaskill for a Missouri seat in the Senate. Incumbent Talent had been trailing his Democratic challenger McCaskill by six percentage points prior to going on a spending spree in which he outspent McCaskill 10 to 1. The race is now deemed a statistical dead heat.

    Republicans live by their very practical version of the Golden Rule:
    “He who has the gold makes the rules.”
    Wealthy, powerful, greedy interests who have fared oh so beautifully under Bush 43’s Reign of Error still compose the true base of the Republican party. The ideology is to protect and further the interests of those who have wealth and power. Powerful, wealthy people will not relinquish their grip on our government without one hell of a scrap. They will spend money to convince past Republican supporters who may now be wavering that Republicans and Republcans alone stand for truth, justice, and the American way (which includes its image as G.od’sO.wnP.arty). The Republican message is often vaunted as more “disciplined” and “resonant” than the message of Democrats, but let’s not misunderestimate the benefit of message saturation and a co-opted MSM. I’m not positive the sheep are ready to veer away from the slaughter house. The Republican appeal to the “every man for himself” streak that runs through many Americans, is difficult to counter with ideas – new or otherwise – that demand critical thought and possible self-sacrifice.

  • I hate to compare RepubCo to something as potentially noble, (if it weren’t for steroids, drugs and all that), as the Tour d’France but it seems applicable. The ShrubCo era is like a stage that has been rewarding almost beyond imagining for all things RepubCo but it’s been a slog as well. It’s taken focus and persistance and flat out lying to American’s and the world and a bold decision to subvert the Constitution with malice but they’ve done it without flinching and once they got the jist of what James Baker showed them in ’00, they took the reins and said F**k it. We’re going for it. And they have. And it’s taken a toll on the team. But the goal is the same. And they have gained a great deal of ground. They’re pretty tired, the riders are beat up and there are stragglers but when one looks at where they were in ’00 and where they are now, they have kicked ass on this stage. And even if they are pissed off at each other and cranky and a bit concerned that they may take a hit on the next stage because they’re not 100%, you can bet your ass that they know where the finish line is.

    They know what they want because they are told what they want. Their coach is the worlds richest people and biggest corporations and those people and companies ride in the chase car with a mondo bullhorn pushing and pushing and pushing RepubCo to keep their mind on the yellow jersey and not to look back and to focus on the finish line G.D. it.

    The left are chumps if we think RepubCo is softening. They can’t soften. Their keepers won’t tolerate it. What possible motive could there be for CorpCo to feel they’ve got enough. How f’n crazy is that? A regrouping to catch the collective breath and begin again? If absolutely necessary but make it snappy. What bullhorn do the teams have that have fallen far behind during this administration’s tenure? Who’s going to pony up gas money for the chase car?

    RepubCo’s goals are a perfect copy of the goals of global corporatism. CorpCo holds RepubCo’s nuts in it’s steel trap hand wearing a thin glove woven from $1,000 bills. There may be some backing and filling but the route for the right is clear. CorpCo is unconcerned about any difficulties they may be having. They need to get on their f**king bikes and ride.

    The left continues to wish for resurrection through the self destruction of the right. Until the left craves victory and the demolishing of the right with the same conviction and gut knotted perserverence that the right exibits, even the victories that come our way will be shakey because they won’t be tied to a group of larger causes. Starting with a head snapping reining in of global corporatism and it’s self serving goals. Just saying it is like saying rein in God. How intimidating would that position be to a politician of any party whose privileged position depends largely or completly on corporate donation and largesse?

    I can’t stand anything RepubCo represents but they play to win and we’re going to have to emulate that attitude with vigor if this country is to have a future the truly caring and compassionate among us can be proud of.

  • I know this might sound strange, but I would really like to know without going into too much specifics, what people who post on this website contribute to society. I don’t mean that ugly, I really want to know some things that don’t relate to politics. Do you work hard at your job and are proud of what you do for a living? Are you a father or mother who takes their job seriously as a parent? Are you a husband or wife that is dedicated to a healthy marriage? Are you a person of integrity and truth when you talk to other people? Do you seek to encourage other people when you see their faults? I have given examples but I have not touched on most of the things out there. Please resist making jokes about this post. Answer if you like to and ignore if you don’t.

  • I was about to mention the same TPM posts cited by TuiMel. They remind us that Nov is not a sure thing, not by a long shot. These next two months will be ugly, dirty, wretched. The goal of negative campaigning is not (primarily) to promote your guy over the other, but to get everyone so disgusted so that only your strongest partisans will turn out to vote. The Republicans have the strongest partisans, so they’ll be doing this strategy in every single contest they can this fall, and spending wildly out of their huge warchest to do it. They may well succeed in holding onto both houses of Congress, and if they do, that’s it, they’ve won. Because ’08 (we’ll be told) will be about “new faces” a “fresh start”; no one will want to hear any more about the failures of Bush-Cheney. They’ll laugh all the way to the Presidential Library. Yeah, I’m kind of depressed.

    Sean raises some interesting questions. I don’t think this is a “get to know you post” – I think he actually believes that people who read CBR are moral degenerates of some kind.

    Well, as it happens, I work very hard at my job, which I’m proud of; I’m devoted to my wife & son; I treat people with integrity and try not to see them only in terms of their faults.

    I’m also angry as hell at the fact that my government is being run by people who do not share my values. Some of those values are: a love of this country, its land, people and ideals; a sense of responsibility for the wellbeing of others; a determination that the people’s money be used properly, soundly, and transparently, and that running up debt in the name of the people is an outrage; respect for the freedom for every citizen to make his/her own moral, religious and economic choices; deep admiration and respect for the US military, and hence a belief that their lives should only be put at risk for an undeniable security need and with a sound strategic plan for where, why, how and how long they will be deployed. Just to name a few.

    What are your values, Sean?

  • Thanks BC. Your post is encouraging. I am in my mid 20’s so I have a long way to go. I am proud to be a husband and father who is dedicated to his family for life. I am a hard worker who believes that you have to be a person of integrity regardless of who is paying attention. I try to not promote forms of wastefulness whether it is my own resources at stake or our country’s. I am proud of our country and hope people can stand up for its future in a positive way. I believe in setting good examples to anyone who might be watching me, especially young people. I believe that admitting when I am wrong and dealing with my weaknesses is a sign of strength.

    The reason why I ask these questions is not malicious although I do admit that I would have found some pleasure in the fact that maybe no one would have been brave enough to actually give good responses. But that is probably just me WANTING to believe that people who lean to the far left politically don’t care about society in a way that they actually contribute and our proud of their country.

    I am a strong Christian conservative and truly do get encouraged when I hear a post like CB’s. Even though I don’t hold the exact same desires for this country as CB does, knowing those things he posted gives him depth and understanding far beyond his political vocabulary and knowledge. Again, I am really interested in responses to my original posts and as you can see, I am not here to make a specific rebuttal.

    thanks

  • I’m not sure if anyone’s still reading this thread. But, Sean, as you go through life I hope you’ll learn that everyone, really, has about the same core values. Their political leanings reflect their cultural background, life experiences, and also (critically) where they get their information. Sooner or later you realise that no one politician or political party has all the answers, and deep down we all want the same things.

    It’s in the interest of politicians to emphasise differences and promote conflict, since that’s what keeps them employed. But somehow this has all been pushed too far lately. It’s been devastating to me to see how coarse and personal political dialogue has become in the last ten years or so; I hope we can find our way back to remembering the core of decency and hope that we all share.

  • BC:
    I returned to see if anyone responed to Sean’s “apropos of nothing” inquiry. I give you points for responding as you did. I will not be responding, but it is not because I lack “bravery.” IMO, Sean’s posts cannot decide whether to be cloying or condescending, and for that reason, I suppose, I found them to be both. He asks us to submit ourselves to his judgement even as he admits he (probably) wants to believe people who are on the “far left” (whatever that means and whoever among us fall into that category) neither care about society nor love this country. No thanks.

  • Hi BC- I too share those same concerns about politics on both sides even though I am a conservative. I know my party has people in it that don’t have the American people’s best interests in mind. I despise any politician who is not a person of integrity and honor.

    TuiMel – I can understand how you might read into my posts the way you did. Just to clarify though, my intentions where not as bad as you think. I am guilty of putting liberals in a box sometimes and I am sure many liberals are guilty of putting conservatives in a box. I simply was admitting that I do that at times, but I am not interested in criticizing anyone who talks about what they are proud of as an American and how they contribute to our society.

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