Tancredo offers more fuel for terrorists’ fire

Two years ago, Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-Colo.) raised more than a few eyebrows — here and around the world — when he publicly suggested bombing Mecca. On a talk show, the host asked Tancredo how the U.S. should respond to a domestic nuclear terrorist attack. “Well, what if you said something like – if this happens in the United States, and we determine that it is the result of extremist, fundamentalist Muslims, you know, you could take out their holy sites,” Tancredo answered.

When the host asked if he was talking about destroying Mecca, Tancredo said, “Yeah.”

Not surprisingly, Tancredo’s comments were quickly disseminated in the Middle East, where audiences who are already pre-disposed to distrust the West heard that a U.S. lawmaker from the president’s political party was talking openly “taking out” the most sacred of Islamic holy sites.

And now, Tancredo’s doing it again. (via TPM)

“If it is up to me, we are going to explain that an attack on this homeland of that nature would be followed by an attack on the holy sites in Mecca and Medina,” the GOP presidential candidate said. “That is the only thing I can think of that might deter somebody from doing what they would otherwise do. If I am wrong fine, tell me, and I would be happy to do something else. But you had better find a deterrent or you will find an attack. There is no other way around it. There have to be negative consequences for the actions they take. That’s the most negative I can think of.”

The harsh approach is vital in order to prevent a worldwide collapse, Tancredo told nearly 30 people Tuesday morning at the Family Table restaurant.

I’m trying to imagine a more irresponsible, spectacularly stupid thing for a presidential candidate to say, but nothing’s coming to mind.

Fareed Zakaria recently explained one of the distinct advantages America enjoys over Europe when it comes to a radicalized Muslim population.

The crucial advantage that the United States has in this regard is that we do not have a radicalized domestic population. American Muslims are generally middle class, moderate and well assimilated. They believe in America and the American Dream. […]

This distinct American advantage — which testifies to our ability to assimilate new immigrants — is increasingly in jeopardy. If leaders begin insinuating that the entire Muslim population be viewed with suspicion, that will change the community’s relationship to the United States. Wiretapping America’s mosques and threatening to bomb Mecca are certainly a big step down this ugly road.

One of the most common conservative complaints about Democratic criticism of the war in Iraq is that “the enemy is listening.” If they hear leading U.S. politicians questioning the utility of an occupation, the right says, then perhaps terrorists will do more to feed that skepticism and force our withdrawal. As such, we need to watch what we say.

Except Tancredo is helping prove that the right doesn’t mean it — they want to stifle dissent, but only the kind that interferes with White House talking points. When it comes to rhetoric that will actually encourage terrorists and terrorism, Tancredo is offering a clear example of Irresponsible Rhetoric 101.

Tancredo is too dumb to realize it, but he’s giving terrorists exactly what they want, making it easier for groups like al Qaeda to recruit and raise money. He’s encouraging terrorism for no reason, other than to add a tough-guy veneer to his ugly xenophobia.

Could the voters in Tancredo’s district please unelect him if for no other reasons that he is adding fuel to the fire. Self preservation alone should be enough motiviation even if they agree with him.

  • It’s not clear to me whether Tancredo also considered slaughtering the first born of every Muslim family whose first-born we can lay hands on — and decided that taking out Mecca and Medina would be more effective — or whether this just hasn’t occurred to him yet.

  • “If it is up to me, we are going to explain that an attack on this homeland of that nature would be followed by an attack on the holy sites in Mecca and Medina,”

    I think that most reasonable people would see such an act as a war crime. At least Tancredo’s up-front about the kind of President he’d be.

  • CB wrote: “Tancredo is too dumb to realize it, but he’s giving terrorists exactly what they want…”

    In a sense he’s doing it doubly so: just talking about bombing Mecca is a huge recruitment drive, but actually bombing Mecca would be the biggest boon to terrorist recruiting. He’s laboring under the impression that the terrorists would be upset or deterred by the threat of destroying Islamic holy sites – my impression is that they don’t give a rat’s ass about Islam proper. They certainly don’t practice it.

    My guess is that terrorists view the bombing of Mecca much like the conservatives view another attack on the U.S.: publicly they denounce it, but it so helps them achieve their policy goals that privately that they can’t help but wish for it to come true.

  • Gee Tommy, if the instigators turned out to be radical Christianists would you recommend lobbing a few at Jerusalem?
    Putz.

    I wonder if this schmuck even knows where the two holy sites are located. Probably not but it’s no wonder the Saudis keep giving the US the finger. Between the noise from next door and dipshits like Tancredo I’m surprised they still maintain an embassy in the US.

  • Oh yeah. That’ll do it. Just imagine if Saudi Arabia announced that every US military action in an Arab land would result in the bombing of a US church. That would convince the religious right to stop this war! – NOT!

    Is he really this stupid, pandering to the base, or is it a requisite synergy of the 2?

  • I’m trying to follow Tancredo-think.

    I would like to ensure we deter any more Oklahoma City bombings.

    Do we bomb our own military? Places where Vets congregate? Maybe we bomb a bunch of domestic right-wing groups? Fundie churches?

    Please please please someone ask him this.

    How is it that anyone thinks the R’s are better at protecting America?

    Although, to rise to Steve’s challenge, I can think of one “more irresponsible, spectacularly stupid thing” for a presidential candidate to say: “Bring it on.”

  • There have to be negative consequences for the actions they take. That’s the most negative I can think of.

    Tancredo isn’t just encouraging more terrorism; he’s plotting terrorism. There’s no other way to describe it. The good news is…

    …Tancredo told nearly 30 people Tuesday morning at the Family Table restaurant.

    Not even 30, just nearly.

  • Re: tAiO @ #5

    …it’s no wonder the Saudis keep giving the US the finger. Between the noise from next door and dipshits like Tancredo I’m surprised they still maintain an embassy in the US.

    Well how else would they conduct the criminal enterprise known as the Bush Laden Crime Family?

  • Devil’s advocate here…

    What SHOULD the US response to New York’s vaporization at the hands of a Muslim fundamentalist organization be?

    Catch the guys who did it and punish 5 guys for the deaths of 5 million?

    Okay if you think that’s all we should do, but there are a LOT of Americans who’d want something a bit more proportional.

    As a follow-up, would Tancredo allow residents to evacuate of does he want to kill innocent Muslims as well as a handful of guilty? How does the Christian God size up that proposal, d’ya suppose?

  • I could think of a few groups that might want to nuke Congress and blame it on the Muslims…..a two-fer, so to speak.

  • williamjoacobs – well, the answer would not be to launch a war with a country that wasn’t involved, for one. And I think whatever our response is will have to take into consideration whether we still have almost 200,000 troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, since it’s hard to take military action when there aren’t enough troops to undertake it.

    But, looking at Tancredo’s response, I think he probably strikes a chord with some average (or below average) Americans, but someone who is looking to be the president of the US needs to do better than sink to that level. It’s just more of that phony-macho “Bring it On” talk, and we’ve seen how well that’s worked out, haven’t we?

    No one’s suggesting we just turn the other cheek, but there’s nothing to be gained by saying things that do nothing but fan the flames among radical types who don’t see the distinction between what a candidate says and what the US policy is.

    Tancredo makes me realize yet another use for duct tape.

  • I’m trying to imagine a more irresponsible, spectacularly stupid thing for a presidential candidate to say, but nothing’s coming to mind.

    I can, but you have to be able to read the Necronomicon in the original.

  • Re: williamjacobs @ #10

    What SHOULD the US response to New York’s vaporization at the hands of a Muslim fundamentalist organization be?

    Well, before we set out to bomb the entire world back to the Stone Age and institute outright fascism in America (that is, without the pretense of liberty or freedom), why not start off with an independent, scientific and forensic investigation to identify the perpetrators of the attack. But this time, let’s devote more resources than the measly $15M that was allocated for the 9/11 Commission (Mike Vick made $23M in 2005, to demonstrate where our priorities are). Also, let’s insist that, should, say, a 47-story, steel-framed skyscraper that was not struck by an aircraft collapse (World Trade Center 7 collapsed at 5:20 PM ET, 9/11/2001 and it was not struck by an aircraft) because of this hypothetical attack, that that information is not entirely omitted from the report on such an investigation (WTC7 was entirely omitted from the 9/11 Commission Report).

    How’s that for starters? Or not enough fire and brimstone?

  • Catch the guys who did it and punish 5 guys for the deaths of 5 million? Okay if you think that’s all we should do, but there are a LOT of Americans who’d want something a bit more proportional.

    Were there any better suggestions about how to deal with Timothy McVeigh? Kill his relatives and neighbors, maybe? Or blow up right-wing militia sites? I think it’s instructive to think about what people do and how they react to events when it’s not just a bunch of foreigners who are the bad guys.

  • JKap, please, please just give it up.

    Had you ever visited NYC before 9/11? Did you ever notice how close WTC 7 was to the Twin Towers? Why is it not plausable in your dellusional mind that debris from the North Tower weakened the WTC 7 structure until it failed?

    By the way, How the hell are you any different that the right wing nut jobs who don’t believe in evolution?

  • Maybe Tancreepo would advocate taking and shooting hostages too? The other Nazis preferred a ratio of 10 hostages for every one of their own. Maybe someone should ask Tancreepo if that ratio is alright with him.

  • Tancredo isn’t what I’d call “too dumb to realize it.” He is an inherently-evil son-of-a-bitch who’s coming out into the open with the very core of the Christian Extremist Agenda—a “forever war;” a “gargantuan struggle” between two theocratic behemoths whose fringe elements cannot—and will never be able to—co-exist on the same planet.

    We could, with complete accuracy, refer to the American Taliban of the Christian Right as “Tancredoban….”

  • Ah, from the brilliant, authoritarian mind of JRS Jr — finally an explanation why WTC7 was entirely omitted from the 9/11 Commission Report.

    I guess I’m delusional because WTC7 was entirely omitted from the 9/11 Commission Report? Or because it was not struck by an aircraft? Or because it was 47-stories? Or because it was a steel-framed skyscraper?

    Yes, I know I’m being entirely unreasonable asserting these empirical facts. And your name-calling speaks volumes to your credibility.

  • Others have said similar things now, but I’ll add my comment:

    williamjacobs wrote: “What SHOULD the US response to New York’s vaporization at the hands of a Muslim fundamentalist organization be? Catch the guys who did it and punish 5 guys for the deaths of 5 million? Okay if you think that’s all we should do, but there are a LOT of Americans who’d want something a bit more proportional.”

    Um, maybe I’m not up on U.S. law and general moral thinking, but ‘an eye for an eye’ was given up a long, long time ago. If a serial killer murders my entire family, we punish HIM, we don’t go and kill all of his innocent family and friends just for a sense of ‘balance.’ That’s how old-style ‘family feuds’ were started, and how a bunch of the endless wars throughout history have been perpetrated (the Israeli-Palestinian conflict comes to mind).

    The sad truth is that a handful of people can cause harm well out of proportion to their organizational size. Tim McVeigh was mentioned above. However, I don’t think you’ll find that 5 people alone will be able to build or acquire, smuggle, and detonate a nuclear device without a significant amount of outside help. If such a sad event did happen, I will hope (and pray) that our government and the American people will spend their time hunting down the perpetrators instead of bombing someone innocent out of a sense of ‘proportionality’ (which, incidentally, was the major crisis in season 2 of 24).

  • All rather vague non-answers to the question. (I’ll grant you, it’s a toughie; it’s not like I have a good one)

    Assuming we even CAN identify a culprit, (the next wingnut may not be as happy to take credit as bin Laden), can we assume we can catch the guy? Can we assume the government will finger the right one?

    If you hold a guy responsible for a terrorist attack but don’t catch him, haven’t you “turned the other cheek” involuntarily? Could America be satisfied with that? Perhaps we’d start an unrelated war out of misguided frustration. Attack a city, or country, with only the flimsiest connection to the attack, if any.

    Will the willingness to begin such a war hinge on the success or failure of resolution of the next terrorist attack? How do we minimize the damage of future jingoistic rage if not discuss it beforehand. Tancredo may not have a good answer, but the dialog, as dangerous as it is, is worth having.

  • Translation: he wants to bomb sites that are home to innocent people and the place of pilgramage for folks around the world in order to supposedly deter people based on religion.

    First, he’s essentially advocating a war crime.

    Secondly, he’s an idiot if he thinks this has any deterrent value. A bombing of Mecca would turn the world against us, destabilize the world economy (oil anyone), and mean our troops in iraq would not just be in an unstable situation – they’d be in a meat grinder. He’s a moron who doesn’t realize such actions only piss people off more.

    Third, he’s just making it easier on the terrorists. Let’s see if this one spreads across the world . . .

  • God it pains me to agree with JRS Jr about anything, but here goes. . .

    We get all over the wingnuts for not being in the Reality-Based Community, so it is always disheartening to hear those allegedly on the side of all that is good engaging in conspiracy theories to rival the Bircher’s Black Helicopter fears.

    Yes, I agree that with the current misAdministration, one has to be careful runing out any misdeed. But the idea that 9/11 was a conspiracy in which our government was involved is beyond credibility — it is no more or less than the rumor popular among Arab countries that the Mossad did it to frame the Arab states and the proof is that hundreds of Jews who work there allegedly were notified in advance and stayed home.

    JKap, I know your response will be “why wasn’t WTC 7 at least mentioned in the report?” Again, I hate to sound like Jr, but have you been there? I happened to have cause to visit NYC about 4 months after 9/11. The building which houses Verizon’s NY headquarters was right next to WTC 7. There were huge holes in the building, and pieces of debris still visible that had impaled the structure. The buildings adjacent to the towers in nearly every direction were severely damaged; some were boarded up, some later demolished because they were unstable. The impact of two large jets, fully laden with fuel, shot high-speed debris in several directions and generated immense heat. The pancaking collapse of each floor shot debris out and created massive and repeated burts of pressure in all directions. This is not at all surprising, nor is it surprising that it severely damaged surrounding buildings.

    WTC 7 likely wasn’t mentioned because (a) WTC 7 was not unique – the same phenomenon impacted numerous adjacent buildings without “WTC” in their names; and (b) what happened to WTC 7 doesn’t materially add anything to the investigation of what happened to the towers.

    Occams Razor is useful here.

  • williamjacobs wrote: “What SHOULD the US response to New York’s vaporization at the hands of a Muslim fundamentalist organization be? Catch the guys who did it and punish 5 guys for the deaths of 5 million? Okay if you think that’s all we should do, but there are a LOT of Americans who’d want something a bit more proportional.”

    then he wrote:

    “All rather vague non-answers to the question. (I’ll grant you, it’s a toughie; it’s not like I have a good one)”

    I think most people were responding to your implication that a ‘proportional’ response is necessary, even if it targets people completely unrelated to the attack or increases the likelihood of even MORE terrorist attacks.

    I suggested that the response should be the hunting down of those responsible for the attack, not bombing someone just to make us feel better. Not specific enough? Then here’s a suggestion: All law enforcement agencies go on their highest alert level. Borders are temporarily closed off, especially shipping, and all intelligence assets are focused on finding the group or nations responsible for the attack. When a perpetrator is found, military action is taken, if warranted (against the agressor of harborer of terrorism), or police action involving international collaboration is taken if against a non-sponsored group. These are all stock answers, and probably common-sense ones to most people at this blog, I would guess. I would NEVER advocate bombing innocents just to satisfy bloodlust – that isn’t leadership, that’s the rankest cowardice I can imagine.

    “If you hold a guy responsible for a terrorist attack but don’t catch him, haven’t you “turned the other cheek” involuntarily? Could America be satisfied with that? Perhaps we’d start an unrelated war out of misguided frustration. Attack a city, or country, with only the flimsiest connection to the attack, if any.”

    You seem to be changing your hypothetical situation in order to justify a catastrophic attack of innocent people (commenters suggest rounding up the terrorists, so you reply- what if they aren’t found?) And, no, you haven’t ‘turned the other cheek’ involuntarily if you fail to catch a criminal (apparently the FBI’s 10 most wanted criminals are all people we have forgiven of their crimes, by that logic).

    Remember the outpouring of good will the world gave the U.S. after 9/11? Even Iran was holding vigils. Bush provides us the ultimate case study of the outcome of attacking someone to satisfy bloodlust. By attacking Iraq, the world has turned against us, we’ve weakened ourselves militarily, and the REAL terrorists are as strong as they ever were.

    It’s a fair question to ask what sort of response one should have to a terrorist attack. Tancredo is not the sort of ‘man’ who should even have a seat at the table.

  • By this logic, we should level the Vatican because some Catholic Priests molested some children.

    No, you punish the guilty. Only. Ever. It’s one of the principles of our Democracy and a hallmark of being an evolved being.

  • Re: Zeitgeist @ #23

    Who said anything about a conspiracy theory?

    williamjacobs’ question was what would be the U.S. response to a hypothetical future mass-terrorism attack upon the good people of America. I responded that I thought a thorough investigation is the logical first step. After all, look at what the rush to a response to 9/11 has resulted in — an illegal and amoral occupation of a sovereign nation that did not attack us and the expansion of the American Corporate Empire.

    I mentioned the $15M allocated for the 9/11 Commission — which I believe is sorely anemic (especially considering that $40M was spent by Congress investigating the truthiness of Bill Clinton’s sexual escapades).

    Furthermore, look at what that $15M did not do for us — 40% of the American Public still believe that Saddam Hussein was in on 9/11. More money should have been spent for public awareness alone.

    I mentioned the collapse of WTC7 — which I, myself, had not been aware of until just last year — thanks to the Corporate Military Industrial Media!

    No, I have not been to Ground Zero and yes, I understand WTC7’s proximity to the Twin Towers. However, WTC3 & 4 were closer in proximity.

    Still, destruction of property is certainly a facet of terrorism, wouldn’t you agree? And here you have WTC7 omitted from the 9/11 Commission Report. Why do you feel compelled to answer why it was omitted? Let the government respond. How could that be construed as unreasonable?

  • I cannot believe the naivete of some of you. If you had evil intentions of destroying America would you be more likely or less likely to implement them if you knew there would be serious reprisals? A prospective terrorist’s knowledge that his most holy of sites would be destroyed along with an untold volume of life wouold be a formidable deterrrent. Islam, which he sought to promote, may be vaporized as well. Ronald Reagan is not credited with crumbling “The Evil Empire” by placating their wishes and making them feel safe. The United States will be much safer with Tom Tancredo than it would ever be with Hillary or Barack Hussein O.

  • Mark wrote: “I cannot believe the naivete of some of you. If you had evil intentions of destroying America would you be more likely or less likely to implement them if you knew there would be serious reprisals?”

    I can’t believe your naivete, thinking that terrorists really care about what happens to holy sites or countless innocent people. They’re perfectly willing to murder any number of fellow Muslims, why would they care if we do it, especially if it gives them an excuse to truly start a worldwide holy war? Waging war on innocent people just gives those innocents motivation to become our enemies as well.

    I can’t believe your cynicism, thinking that the murder of millions of innocent people is justified because you’re feeling scared after a terrorist attack. Your thinking sounds more reminiscent of “The Evil Empire” you cited than the thinking of any American I know. Are you sure you’re not a former/current Soviet?

  • If you hold a guy responsible for a terrorist attack but don’t catch him, haven’t you “turned the other cheek” involuntarily? Could America be satisfied with that? Perhaps we’d start an unrelated war out of misguided frustration. Attack a city, or country, with only the flimsiest connection to the attack, if any.

    williamjacobs blew up my snark-o-meter.

    I assume you’re just asking if another terrorist attack on US soil would set off another round of “Invade the Wrong Country.”

    Not in the next several decades. Please keep in mind that BushCo had to lie about Smoking Gun Mushroom Clouds in order to get backing for PonyQuest (TM). Thanks to him, people will be a tad skeptical if, after another attack and a failed attempt to nab the guy responsible, the president says we have to invade a country two or three doors over.

    That and our army is completely knackered.

    Sure, we can have this dialog now, but right now, people either get it or they don’t and the majority gets it. By the time the numbers shift back to enough don’t get it for the same stunt to work, any related dialog or lessons learned will have sunk deep into the bottomless pit of the American unconscious.

  • gg, you need to get out more and speak to more Americans. I don’t pretend to understand what each individual terrorist thinks, but I do understand rational thought. I don’t believe that those who would manage the huge undertaking of a nuclear catastrophe upon America are entirely irrational. The minions may be but the leadership is not. Knowing that crossing a certain line of terror would not be tolerated and render them paralyzed to engage us further is a strong deterent. No gg, I am not a Soviet, but I do know the threat of mutual destruction kept the peace for more than forty years with a former enemy we thought of as irrational.

  • mark wrote: “I don’t believe that those who would manage the huge undertaking of a nuclear catastrophe upon America are entirely irrational.”

    Who said they were irrational? I said that they don’t care if we bomb Mecca, or even worse would welcome it because it suits their strategic goals – much like current R’s seem to be longing for a terrorist attack on the U.S. to ‘rally the base’. Despicable though it is, expecting people to want to achieve their goals is not calling them ‘irrational.’ You don’t seem to get that not all Middle Easterners are the same, and not all of them consider their highest priority to be the protection of holy sites. Your lack of understanding of this smacks to me as a sort of simple-minded racism on your part.

    “Knowing that crossing a certain line of terror would not be tolerated and render them paralyzed to engage us further is a strong deterent.”

    Your Cold War mentality shines through here. We were able to deter the Soviets because if they attacked us, we could bomb their country. Today’s terrorists are not necessarily associated with any country. If they are, fine: mutually assured destruction works. If they’re part of a non-local organization, like Al Qaeda, then there isn’t a country to target. The best course of action available is to track down and destroy the organization, not make more enemies by shelling innocent people. But, then, you probably don’t consider anyone in the Middle East ‘innocent’, do you?

    “gg, you need to get out more and speak to more Americans.”

    I don’t deny there are people as morally corrupt and frightened as you floating around America, but I challenge you to give examples of real American heroes who advocated murdering innocent people to punish and scare the bad guys. We’re supposed to be better than that.

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