The case for keeping the Democratic contest going — and its flaws

With about seven months to go before voters choose the next president, Democrats are not only divided over which candidate should get the nomination, they’re divided about whether the fight for the nomination has gone on long enough. Great.

We’ve heard plenty of talk this week about the need to wrap things up relatively soon, but the pushback against this approach is coming from Hillary Clinton’s supporters, Ralph Nader, and today, the Washington Post editorial board.

The WaPo’s case is built around three main points:

* There are “millions of votes are yet to be cast,” and those voters should get “a chance” to express a preference;

* An “extended contest informs the electorate” and “battle-tests” the eventual nominee;

* Dems are gaining new voters for the fall with increased registration;

There may very well be compelling reasons to keep the Democratic competition going, but if these three are the best arguments, the pitch needs a little work.

Yes, there are 10 contests left, but that’s hardly a good reason to keep a nomination fight going. Primary contests are usually over by now; we rarely weep for those states that play a minimal role in picking the next nominee. Indeed, states have a choice about moving up their primaries/caucuses if this is a priority.

Sure, primary fights “inform the electorate,” but you know what else keeps people informed? A general-election fight. As for “battle testing,” Clinton and Obama have been campaigning since early 2007. Who really believes a 14-month campaign (so far) for the nomination is insufficient?

And I’m delighted Democratic registration is up, but this is hardly a good reason to keep the process going. Indeed, if we had a nominee, that candidate would also be organizing states and registering voters. (Noam Scheiber adds there’s ample reason to believe registration numbers would have “ended up in the same place” anyway.)

Then, of course, there are the arguments against keeping the race going. Off the top of my head…

* Dems can’t take advantage of their financial edge if the party’s candidates have to spend their money fighting each other.

* In order to bring the party back together after a tough fight, Dems are going to need time. A prolonged process won’t give them the time they need (McCain, meanwhile, is mending GOP fences right and further right).

* The ongoing fight is dragging down the favorability numbers of both candidates, and has given McCain a lead in national polls.

* This is a time to start defining McCain for the general election, but instead Democratic candidates are fighting each other.

* McCain’s many humiliating gaffes — which could undermine his chances in November — are getting lost in the shuffle because the Democratic race is sucking up all the media oxygen.

* The VP vetting process will have to be dramatically curtailed.

* State organizing that needs to be done isn’t getting done: “Democrat Donnie Fowler underscored the consequences of a fight that goes on into the summer. ‘Suffice it to say that every week that goes by without a nominee is another tick on the clock where the Democratic Party is not fully able to put campaign teams together in the 15 to 20 battleground states,’ he said. ‘In the past three elections, state directors have set up shop in May . . . and that’s after a two-months process of searching, hiring, and announcing them.'”

* The intra-party disputes are getting uglier — at the national and state levels.

* If this goes to the convention, McCain will have eight months for his general-election campaign, and Dems will have eight weeks.

Consider a thought experiment. If you’re a consultant/strategist at the RNC right now, are you worried that a prolonged Democratic process is going to help Dems with voter registration and battle testing, or are you doing the Happy Dance that the Clinton/Obama fight is going to continue for the foreseeable future?

It seems pretty obvious to me.

But MI, but FL…

  • Here is another reason. According to the March 26 (Wed) Rasmussen poll:

    “Twenty-two percent (22%) of Democratic voters nationwide say that Hillary Clinton should drop out of the race for the Democratic Presidential nomination. However, the latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that an identical number—22%–say that Barack Obama should drop out.

    A solid majority of Democrats, 62%, aren’t ready for either candidate to leave the race. Nationally, Clinton and Obama are running essentially even among Likely Democratic Primary Voters in the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll.”

  • The Democrats have not decided. Why do you dismiss the Hillary voters? And if she loses you people have not figured out how to be nice yet. So, like Michelle, we will have to think about the “tone” What is good for Michelle, is good for us.

  • This angst about the rights of the remaining states’ voters might be put to better use coming up with a more reasoned primary scheme; and this could be done in conjunction Hon. Sen. Clinton’s withdrawal.

  • Pretty silly for the WaPo to state that not all voters will have a say in the primaries, as millions of voters will not have a choice if they stop the contest now…

    Isn’t that the case already in the Republican contest? How about all those poor Republicans who are no longer able to vote for Fred Thompson, Rudy Guiliani, Mitt Romney, Tancredo, Brownback and their compadres.

  • the obamabanger report by steve
    has becoming pretty predictably boring in its parroting of Obama campaign talking points.
    too bad- it used to be worth reading. Now its just one more of the echo chamber without a thought of its own.

  • Almost every aspect of a continued fight costs. About the WaPo’s comments, they have no logical position. As you note, tail end voters never effect the outcome and their comment about “getting a chance” smacks of John Yoo’s editorial in the NYT.

    The battle testing and informing part is all supposition. The battle provides grist to the Republican mill and, come on, if voters don’t know what they need to know about the candidates’policies by now, any continuation is senseless. Continuing will not bring enlightenment about the candidates’ economic positions, it will bring more Rev. Wright and Bosnia fairy tale information to “inform” the voters.

    Democrats will gain new voters when they have a candidate as well. I guess the Post assumes all attractiveness of the Democratic candidates will cease once they stop beating each other up. If a race against McCain (the New Bush) can’t bring them out, what will? As an aside, the only new Democratic voters I know are Republicans who have changed parties in order to vote in the Democratic primary. They’ll change back, then we’ll hear about new Republican voters.

  • “Primary contests are usually over by now; we rarely weep for those states that play a minimal role in picking the next nominee. Indeed, states have a choice about moving up their primaries/caucuses if this is a priority.”

    Tell that to the residents of Michigan and Florida.

  • On the bright side, even if Hillary’s channeling of Huckabee increases the odds of McCain winning, this will almost certainly be the political end of the Clintons. Once Hillary lawyers up and really starts trying to destroy the party, she’ll be lucky to get a seat on the Senate lunch menu committee for the couple of years before getting booted out by an intra-party challenger in New York.

  • You know, if BOTH Dem candidates would direct ALL their fire towards McCain, instead of each other, I would say the race should go on. Democratic voters should have been able to judge their prospective candidates on how well they attacked McCain.

    If they are NOT willing to attack McCain, then Clinton should drop out.

  • We’re fucked. This was the election that none of us could imagine a Democrat losing, but the party has become so divided that there’s no way we come together to beat McCain in November.

    All the idiots on both sides saying they won’t vote for the Democrat if it’s not THEIR Democrat – once again we’re snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

    The longer this thing goes on, the more screwed we are. If it ends today, one side will scream bloody murder and throw a tantrum and refuse to support the nominee. We’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t.

    I was feeling really hopeful about this election, but we are going to lose it to ourselves, not to John McCain. And the fact that a lot of people seem to think that’ll be okay because their candidate didn’t win is shockingly arrogant and self-centered.

    Two months (assuming this thing goes to the end) won’t be enough time to repair the cracks in the party and get people to realize any D is better than a R. We’re handing this election to the Republicans on a silver platter because some of us claiming to be Democrats can’t agree to support the winner if it’s not our winner.

    Hillary Clinton is to 2008 as Ralph Nader was to 2000. She will be remembered, and it won’t be fondly.

  • However, I will say that I see a clear distinction between the race being over early in the past, and the race ending early this year.

    In the past, when the race has ended early, one candidate has already earned the requisite delegates for the nomination (or their rival has seen the writing on the wall and conceded – I’m not totally sure of the history). That later states didn’t get to vote didn’t matter because we already had a nominee and those later votes wouldn’t change that.

    Those of us who are fans of reality know that Hillary Clinton is not going to come into the convention leading Barack Obama in probably any metric, but neither one of them will have achieved the requisite pledged delegates to end this before then, so saying that late states never count so this time isn’t any different is a little disingenuous

    While the late state voting almost assuredly isn’t going to change the dynamic (Obama with a lead) going into the convention, I have to agree that it doesn’t feel right to say “you’ve never counted before so why get upset about not counting this time?”

    This race needs to end, but the only way to do it now is that have a landslide of super delegates come out for Obama (the right thing to do), and that won’t sit well with a lot of people who will see party insiders deciding the race rather than letting all of the remaining states (minus those who don’t deserve to be counted: MI and FL) be counted.

    We’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t. This is a fine mess we’ve gotten ourselves into. I’m beginning to feel like whether Clinton becomes the nominee or not, she is going to lose this election for us all.

  • Why doesn’t MI just give Obama the uncommitted delegates? Clearly they weren’t Clinton voters right? And seat FL as is. The issue is resolved and Clinton still loses.

  • I think those of you who are assuming that we’ll go to the convention with this unresolved are underestimating the desire of the party, including the superdelegates who have the entire party’s interests in mind, to not let this drag on needlessly. After the primaries end, they will come out for Obama and it really won’t matter that Clinton can’t face reality. We will move forward as a party after June, and Clinton will simply be a political mosquito–an annoying buzz but no power.

  • Brilliant post Mr. Benen.

    And your thought experiment totally seals the deal:

    If you’re a consultant/strategist at the RNC right now, are you worried that a prolonged Democratic process is going to help Dems with voter registration and battle testing, or are you doing the Happy Dance that the Clinton/Obama fight is going to continue for the foreseeable future?

    You’ve ruined my Sunday. I know you didn’t mean it literally…
    But I can’t stop imagining McCain doing a happy dance.
    That’s like electro-shocking a cadaver…

  • “Doc” Dean has issued a July !st deadline.

    By July 1st, all contests in the 2008 Democratic nomination race will have concluded.

    By July 1st, all voices to be heard, will have been heard. (This excludes, of course, the contests in Michigan and Florida; an exclusion acceptable to Hillary before she found herself losing the “inevitability” mantle that she placed upon herself more than a year ago.)

    If July establishes a delegate count whereby Obama garners 2,024 votes (combining pledged delegates and supers), then Hillary can pack it in and go home. There is no way that she can bribe, cajole, and blackmail “convince” a credentials committee to overrule a legitimate delegate count. All she’s doing now is to further entrench the growing belief that she is, indeed, both a shill for the GOP and the “Foxchurian Candidate.”

    But hey—that “shrill little man-cub” on the factless “factor” is getting pretty old. Maybe Murdoch and Ailes should put him out to pasture—and put Hillary on in his place.

    It would be a good fit….

  • I tend to agree with Maria @ 14. I don’t think the Democratic Party elders are going to let this go all the way to the convention. It will be pretty much decided before the convention, but allow the media to believe it is going to the convention.

    that way the media gets to show the spectacle live on TeeVee, the Democratic party gets the free publicity, and everybody is ‘happy’ and some will be ‘pretend’ unhappy. That’s what reality TeeVee is all about. The uneducated masses want to see conflict.

    The Democratic Nomination process: best reality TeeVee in years. The media is not going to accept a so called pre-destined outcome. Obama pulls ahead a little bit; let’s bash him and insinuate far worse gossip than reality. That way Hillary pulls back even; now start bashing Hillary with her behavior and such. Wouldn’t want one candidate to decisively pull ahead of the other, that would be boring news and bad for the ratings.

    That’s America in a nutshell. Sad but true for the moment.

  • Maria

    If party players get their act together, they can certainly get the Superdelegates to cast their votes after the last primary/caucus and have a winner by the end of June. That would give the declared Democratic winner five months to tackle McCain and finally begin to draw the differences between the Democratic and Republican candidates. You’re right, the other candidate would be a pesky mosquito if s/he refused to support the winner and kept on campaigning. But if Hillary’s the loser in June, she isn’t likely to support Obama. It’s also likely she wouldn’t get any more money from contributors unless some people just love paying off others’ debts.

  • Somehow the media has brought into the line that in order for the primary to be “fair” it must last through the last state. However, it is clear that elections are often fait accompli before the last vote is cast. Having the Super delegates declare before the last vote would not cancel any elections, just confirm a win for one candidate or the other.

    Hillary can stay till the last cow comes home, but if Obama is the recipient of 2025 (or 2024) votes, then he will go to the convention as the presumptive winner. He will also be able to seat the MI and FL delegates without further ado.

    As far as building party strength, that must be weighed against the cost to the candidate in resources, time and damage done in a prolonged battle.

    Truth is, there is nothing wrong with a long campaign, if only the candidates could keep from trying to damage each other. If they both just focused on McCain, they could do the party a service. But… since that isn’t about to happen, it’s best to simply have the Supers get off the fence and declare. Then the loser can campaign on, and get the lack of attention they deserve and the winner can turn to McCain.

  • Phoebes has it right. The problem is not the length of the campaign, the problem is the sort of campaign Hillary is running. (Though there will be a long time to heal the wounds — remember all the Republicans who would ‘never vote for McCain’ who would ‘support Hillary over McCain.” They are singing a different tune, as will we once Obama is nominated — unless Hillary tries some stunt like running a third-party ticket or really did take the VP slot with McCain — which would destroy McCain’s miniscule chances.)

    We forget, tonight is Opening Day — not counting the 2 Japan games. Usually politics disappears from Opening Day until Labor Day. It won’t this year, and that is the good thing about the drawn out campaign. (And remember how exceptional this is. There hasn’t been a race still unsettled this long since, oh, maybe the ‘104-ballot’ convention of 1924.

    The bad thing, of course, is the style that Hillary is using. She is turning off voters to her, to Obama, and to the whole political process — losing the very advantage Obama’s brilliant style has brought us. And she is totally forgetting the down-ballot races, which are even more important this year.

    As for the length of the primary season, I like it. If we’d had one ‘national primary’ we’d have already celebrated Hillary’s coronation, and be cursing at her ‘I’m as a good a Republican as he is” Penn-run campaign.

    In fact — though there may be conflicts with state law that need to be resolved — I’d like to see us institute the following:

    Keep the 4 ‘early states’ as is.

    The year before the election, hold a drawing with the other 48 (the states, DC, and Democrats Abroad). Starting with the First Tuesday in February, hold six (or eight) primary/caususes every two weeks — all on the same day or staggered. The order each election would be determined by lot. That way no state would whine “but it’s always settled before you get to us.

    (Oops, forgot the ‘Islands” Puerto Rico, Guam, American Samoa. Lump them in with Democrats Abroad.)

    I’d like to see one other change, to remove something that is both an anachronism and a real danger, the habit of naming the VP only after the nomination is ‘official.’ Yes, this has the benefit of allowing a last-minute coalition between two challengers (Kennedy-Johnson, Reagan-Bush, Kerry-Edwards) but it also leaves open the possibility of someone being picked who turns out disastrously — I still think people underestimate the harm the Eagleton fiasco did to McGovern. He might not have won, but this made him look so incompetent he lost a lot of states he might have challenged in.

    Not at the beginning, you need that early maneuvering. But I’d like to see a DNC rule that candidates must declare their running mate by St. Patrick’s Day and would have to run as a ticket from then on — leaving open an emergency exit for some serious disaster like health or indictment.

    (If the Democrats did this, the Republicans would have to follow suit. And I guarantee you this would hurt them. Right now a lot of people are mentally getting set to vote for someone they are worried about because they are sure he’ll pick someone from their wing of the party. They might get so determined that the disappointment most of them will feel — because whoever he picks will turn off two or three of the sub-groups — will not keep them from supporting him. But if they knew now who he was going to choose, you’d see him drop in the polls fast as many Republicans would decide to sit this one out rather than vote for ‘those two.’

  • Obama’s Bible Study Class

    James Meeks – an Illinois state senator, pastor of one of the largest churches in the state and a declared Spiritual Adviser for Obama – came under fire for comments rebroadcast last week calling white American mayors “slave masters” and referring to black preachers and politicians who “protect” the “white man” as “house n-ggers.”

    “We don’t have slave masters, we got mayors,” Meeks said in an August 2006 sermon broadcast on a Chicago community television channel.
    Aside from his senatorial duties, Meeks is an Illinois Superdelegate pledged to Obama and also presides over Salem Baptist Church, described as the largest church in Illinois.

    In 2006, Meeks informed his church during a sermon he may run for Illinois governor. He was recorded telling the mostly black congregation any “white Christian” who doesn’t vote for him is a “racist.”

    Meeks is also notorious for his strong anti-homosexual platform, although Obama is campaigning for the “gay” vote. Meeks has routinely voted against pro-homosexual legislation and has been quoted during sermons referring to same-sex attraction “an evil sickness.”

    Obama told the Sun-Times that he attends Meeks’ Salem Baptist Church for Wednesday night Bible study.

    According to Illinois State Board of Elections records, Rezko’s businesses, Rezmar Corp. and Rezko Concession, contributed to Meeks’ campaign funds.

  • Primary contests are usually over by now; we rarely weep for those states that play a minimal role in picking the next nominee.

    Exactly. Why don’t we ever hear these people complaining that the entire staggered primary process is undemocratic? It’s designed so that several, if not most states will have no say in the selection of the nominee. That’s why they were speculating about the possibility of the race ending in Iowa, or after New Hampshire, or after Super Tuesday. Nobody was wringing their hands in anguish that 20, 30, or 40 states would be disenfranchised then. Nobody is arguing that Texas was deprived of the option to choose John Edwards or Dennis Kucinich.

    If they wanted a quicker nomination, they should have designed and enforced a shorter process.

  • Why not move the convention up to early June and give ourselves two extra months of a general campaign? Is there a law of nature that says the convention has to be in August?

  • Why not move the convention up to early June and give ourselves two extra months of a general campaign? Is there a law of nature that says the convention has to be in August?

    Good idea, Bernard, but I would imagine lots and lots of contracts have already secured the late date for this year.

  • “Yes, there are 10 contests left, but that’s hardly a good reason to keep a nomination fight going. Primary contests are usually over by now; we rarely weep for those states that play a minimal role in picking the next nominee. Indeed, states have a choice about moving up their primaries/caucuses if this is a priority.”

    So, the States that don’t abide by the rules don’t get a say, and the states that do abide by the rules don’t get a say. Hell, these States have the opportunity to have MORE influence than usual because the contest is going to the end, but you would insist that their clever scheduling should be nulified because you are getting tired. So not fair.

    “Dems can’t take advantage of their financial edge if the party’s candidates have to spend their money fighting each other.”

    Wrong, they get to hit up their donors for another $2300 each for the General election. In fact both Obama and Clinton probably have more general election money banked than McCain has been able to raise. The fact that the nomination battle is going longer just means they can identify more donors and do it with primary election funds.

    “This is a time to start defining McCain for the general election, but instead Democratic candidates are fighting each other.”

    And if you’d only comment on the attacks that Senator Obama and Senator Clinton are making on Senator McCain, that would be the focus of the blog and a good thing too.

    “The VP vetting process will have to be dramatically curtailed.”

    Oh, I think the American People are getting a wonderful chance to vet a potential Vice President, since the best ticket is Clinton/Obama.

    If the Democratic party thought that a full nomination calendar didn’t make sense then they should not have made the rules that the primaries run from 5 Feb through 10 June (at last allowable date) with states having to get premission to go early (Florida did ask, by the way, having been shafted by a Republican legislature and governor). Instead, this is what they gave us.

    Senator Obama is NOT going to have 2025 pledged delegates by June 3rd. Therefore the nomination is going to be decided by Super Delegates’ individual choices. Therefore there is no reason Senator Obama’s opponent shouldn’t keep trying to win them over and secure the nomination.

    Besides, going through all ten remaining contests is the only way Senator Clinton can catch up in popular vote.

  • And those ten remaining primaries include citizens who should have the chance to cast their votes. This is a close race despite the attempts of Obama supporters to portray it as a done deal. If it were not a close race, I believe Clinton would have dropped out already, just as the other candidates did when the writing was on the wall for them. Clinton is still in because she still has support.

    Bill and Hillary have been acknowledged as savvy campaigners. They have done a calculus on this that tells them there is still a chance of winning the nomination. They have access to more information than we do (including one-on-one conversations with superdelegates and other sorts of pledges). None of the attempts to smear Hillary as power mad or in league with Republicans (or Scaife) make any sense in the context of their lives and previous actions. So, I believe there is some hope and that this process must continue until it is decided unambigiously. Bill Clinton thought he could win under circumstances where someone else would have quit (e.g., Gary Hart) and was proven right. This may be another such situation.

    I agree with the people who are saying that Obama supporters are desperate to get Clinton out of the race because they are afraid of the upcoming votes. He may be at a high point with nowhere to go but down, and they may know it, hence their desperation. I want this to play out the right way.

    Of course, Obama can end this today by withdrawing himself. If he were not a self-centered, power-hungry, anything-to-win, grandiose (substitute other epithets used against Clinton) he would already have done so by now.

  • Mary said: “Of course, Obama can end this today by withdrawing himself. If he were not a self-centered, power-hungry, anything-to-win, grandiose (substitute other epithets used against Clinton) he would already have done so by now.”

    I’m still trying to figure out why Michele decided he should get in, much less stay in.

    Not that he doesn’t run a good campaign.

  • Bill and Hillary have been acknowledged as savvy campaigners. They have done a calculus on this that tells them there is still a chance of winning the nomination.”

    =====

    Unfortunately for them, it’s the same calculus Karl Rove used to predict a landslide Republican victory in 2006. It, too, was hidden from public view See, there is different math for truth-tellers and liars.

    =====

    KARL ROVE: I see several things; first, unlike the general public, I’m allowed to see the polls on the individual races and after all this does come down to individual contests between individual candidates. Second of all, I see the individual spending reports and contribution reports. For example at the end of August in 30 of the most competitive races in the country, the house races..

    ROVE: I’m looking at all of these Robert and adding them up. I add up to a Republican Senate and Republican House. You may end up with a different math but you are entitled to your math and I’m entitled to THE math.

    SIEGEL: I don’t know if we’re entitled to a different math but your…

    ROVE: I said THE math.

  • I suggest that the Democratic Party change their current spaced-out primary system to a 50-State, Same-Day Democratic Primary wherein *all* established, verifiable, and previously registered Democrats–as opposed to same-day-as-the-primary “registered Democrats”–would have an equal say in who the Democratic presidential nominee would be.

    The aforementioned proposed solution, I think, would be the most democratic of primary-voting processes to be devised, and would, at the same time, make sure to prevent voter fraud by members of the opposite party intent, on mischief, to be allowed to register as “Democrats” on the same day as the primary.

  • Nice article. Really brought out the trolls. Must’ve hit a nerve. How I long for the day when Hillary is out of this race and her moron army fades away.

  • We’re handing this election to the Republicans on a silver platter because some of us claiming to be Democrats can’t agree to support the winner if it’s not our winner.

    I ran into a lot of those people early in this process, Will. They were Obama voters. They’re singing a different tune these days…unity and stuff.

  • How Many New Democratic Voters Are Too Many?

    Complain all you want about the long nomination process. Millions of newly-energized Democratic voters is certainly one big reason that Republicans should be concerned. If Democrats are outregistering and outvoting them now, what do you suppose it will be like in November?

    If I were a Republican I’d be very concerned about this.

  • When all is said and done, I don’t think most Democrats down deep truly believe that the nomination process must end now or all is doomed for the Dems. I talk to people throughout the country on a regular basis, and those with upcoming primaries and caucuses are excited in general that their participation really matters.

    What I hear in most people when I talk to them is that they are anxious about the unnecessary knock-down drag-out fight they see at a time when Democrats should be walking away with (but not taking for granted) the Democratic White House victory that this country badly needs. On the one hand, we have Hillary and the Clintonistas who all believe that we should all succumb to the inevitability of her nomination and who will use whatever tactic, ethical or unethical, to achieve power. And then we have Barack who insists on taking the high road instead of putting many of us out of our misery by fighting fire with fire and taking Hillary down hard. If he survives this process and wins the White House, successfully taking the high road will probably be one of his historic legacies.

    As for Michigan and Florida, well… I feel for the Michigan Democratic Party which had this early primary forced upon it by the legislature and governor. I know the party challenged it in court and lost. I also know from conducting polling in Michigan that many voters intending to vote Democratic did not know until we informed them in the polling that there would be only one name on the Michigan ballot. I could hear them right then and there lose interest in participating in the Democratic primary. Since another court has found the law creating the primary unconstitutional and banned the distribution of any voter listings, I think that the Obama campaign’s concern about allowing all interested voters to vote in a re-do regardless of what they did in January is justified. Tell Michigan that’s a required condition, and let them figure out how to do it.

    But Florida? Puh-lease! After a history over the last 8 years of questionable elections and they want to lead off the primary process? And then they whine because they knowingly violate the process that their committee members agreed to? And the political leadership can’t agree among themselves how to resolve the issue? Why do I feel like Katherine Harris died and came back as a bunch of Florida Democratic leaders? Lunacy and idiocy! If need be, let’s go in and conduct a primary for them in June and tell them to take it or leave it. Do something to shut the brats up!

    Last but not least, shame on Hillary for working these two issues like she has a borderline personality. First, these elections mean nothing and her participation is inconsequential. Then these are civil rights issues that she must stand up for and she desperately needs the delegates. Mental health professionals avoid including borderline personality disorders in group treatments because they tear the groups apart, and meanwhile they themselves are resistant to successful treatment. Who thought that this could happen on a national level? That’s what I feel like she is doing to this country.

    People don’t really want the primary process to end. People want Hillary to cut the crap out!

  • The Clintons have a new emphasis — If we can’t think of a good reason to support Hillary over Obama, then they would have us vote for her either because she’s a woman or because she’s not black.

    Identity voting is all she has left, and this divide and conquer strategy is what we have to look forward to over the course of the next weeks or months.

    Disgraceful.

  • “Of course, Obama can end this today by withdrawing himself. If he were not a self-centered, power-hungry, anything-to-win, grandiose (substitute other epithets used against Clinton) he would already have done so by now.”

    This is getting boring, Mary.

    “…but you would insist that their clever scheduling should be nulified because you are getting tired. So not fair.”

    Lance, we get that you think Senator Clinton would be the better candidate. I think it is very obvious however, that Steve is being fair-minded is his analysis.

    If you can’t see any merits of any of his arguments about how this is harming the Democratic Party’s chances in the fall, that’s pretty sad. Worse still that you have to go and ascribe petty motives to him.

    “the obamabanger report by steve has becoming pretty predictably boring in its parroting of Obama campaign talking points.
    too bad- it used to be worth reading. Now its just one more of the echo chamber without a thought of its own.”
    (Joep)

    Steve tried to weigh arguments against each other in a even-handed way and has even defended Clinton in recent posts – joep apparently can only see the blog through ultra-sectarian eyes.

    Some people here are reminding me a lot of Republican trolls, except that they’re not as good at it.

    All the idiots on both sides saying they won’t vote for the Democrat if it’s not THEIR Democrat – once again we’re snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

    Excatly. If Democrats succeed in losing to the Republicans after Iraq, after 4,000 dead, after Haditha, after a recession, after Gonzales, after Siegelman, after New Orleans, after everything… it will be a world-historical embarassment.

    Children will sing songs about how stupid the American left turned out to be.

  • By all means she should stay in and talk about issues that are important to her.

    However she however should not talk about other democrats.

    Reality is the math is essentially impossible for her to get ahead in pledged delegates. She’s need to sweep the rest of the primaries at a rate of about 70%-30% to just catch up in pledged delegates.

  • Katie,

    Funny you should say that. I just read the following —

    (AP) Chelsea Clinton said Saturday that she didn’t realize how much sexism remained in the United States until she noticed the issue at recent campaign stops for her mother.

    “I didn’t really get how much sexism there still was in our country until I was at a rally with my mom in New Hampshire, and someone came up to me and said, ‘I just can’t see a woman being commander in chief,”‘ Clinton said during a stop in Research Triangle Park.

    First of all, I can’t imagine that somebody would actually walk up to Chelsea Clinton and say that. I can’t help but wonder if the Clinton parents’ overactive imaginations are genetic.

    Second, even if this story is true, is one or even a few jackasses indicative of widespread sexism in the campaign or in the voting booth? Actually — no.

    You’re absolutely right. The Clintons have nothing left…so they’re going to attribute calls to drop out of the race as misogyny. They’re going to tell stories about how sexism and any slights against Hillary (whether real, perceived or entirely imaginary) are actually slights against women everywhere.

    And oh by the way, Obama is “the black candidate”…in case you hadn’t noticed.

    I can’t believe I voted for this woman. As far as I’m concerned she’s an embarrassment to women everywhere.

  • I can’t believe I voted for this woman. As far as I’m concerned she’s an embarrassment to women everywhere.

    I understand your feelings, but she’s an embarrassment to herself and no one else. No need to feel even a little bit of false responsibility for her. Do men have to worry that George Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, etc. are embarrassments to males everywhere?

  • Do men have to worry that George Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, etc. are embarrassments to males everywhere?

    They’re an embarrassment to humans everywhere.

  • You have to give it to Hillary though… She’s been running her campaign very slick, if you ask me.

    It sure looks like she was covering all her bases when she agreed to the FL & MI exclusion of their delegates; yet keep her name on the ballot.

    It seems that, with all the ‘race’ and ‘gender’ talk coming from her campaign, they’re positioning themselves for a win-win situation in the aftermath.

    –> Hillary wins the nomination: it’s her sheer will power against all odds as a woman.
    –> Barack wins the nomination: it’s because of misogyny and men not wanting women to be in power.

    How would that be a win-win for her? She doesn’t need to take any responsibility for the defeat, when it happens. External locus of control – it’s always someone else’s fault. She can take the high ground and run again in the future.

  • The hillary-arious part of all this will be when down-state contests (the ones not yet held) are affected by small businesses no longer willing to offer the godless Hillistine hordes credit—given that the upstate contests (those already held) have left behind stories of unpaid bills. Good grief—there are still reports of vendors not paid for goods/services in Iowa, for crying out loud.
    May the gods help her if she’s not paying her bills for that campaign jet. Landing at a place that won’t sell you any fuel “on a tab” would end her campaign faster than a herd of angry supers….

  • doubtful: Nice article. Really brought out the trolls. Must’ve hit a nerve. How I long for the day when Hillary is out of this race and her moron army fades away.

    Yes it really was quite nice in the classic Strunk and White (Elements of Style) usage of the word:

    A shaggy, all-purpose word, to be used sparingly in formal composition. “I had a nice time.” “It was nice weather.” “She was so nice to her mother.” The meanings are indistinct. Nice is most useful in the sense of “precise” or “delicate”: “a nice distinction.”

    I am disappointed that the blogosphere didn’t pick up and promulgate Mr. Benen’s efforts here. He’s written something rather incisive. The trolls upstairs offer zero in refutation.

    Quite good stem to stern…

    Side note:
    The Elements of Style Ch 4: http://www.orwell.ru/library/others/style/e/estyle_4.htm

  • Some people here are reminding me a lot of Republican trolls, except that they’re not as good at it. ~Alex Higgins

    Maria, yes, we men should feel great shame that people like Dick Cheney share a common genitalia structure with us. Then again, i would imagine that chimpanzees feel a great amount of shame for sharing an opposable fifth digit and an oversized brain with humans.

    I don’t see how a national primary would be fair to anyone except the candidate with the most name recognition/money. I would like to see regional primaries. After a month of campaigning throughout the midwest (say) with two debates; Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota (and perhaps one or two others) all vote on the same day.

    No state would be first, and the order could be rotated. Not every region might get to vote, but if instant run-off ballots were used then it would make sense to run the whole nomination campaign. John Edwards wouldn’t have had to give up because he was only pulling 5-10% of the vote; he might well have been everyone’s second choice…which might not win him the nomination, but it would win him time to air his ideas and make whoever did win realize that adopting the best of Edwards’ ideas would behoove him/her.

    First past the post is outmoded and archaic…

  • So be it, then, Hillary supporters – have it your way. Fight the good fight all the way to the convention. It wouldn’t be accurate to say things will be just the same then as they are now, because they won’t, although Hillary will still not get the nomination unless Obama dies or something. But when President McCain takes office in 2009 for four interminable bloody years (because you just know impeachment will be off the table then, too, it’ll be “wait and see”), don’t you dare say , “Oh, it wasn’t OUR fault, nobody could have seen THAT coming”.

    That’s not true. Plenty of people can see it coming. They just can’t stop it.

  • LisaJ, @38,

    IIRC, Chelsea also corroborated her mother’s account of ducking the sniper fire on the tarmac of Tuzla so my guess is: yes, she did inherit her parents’ rich imagination. And I agree with Maria, @39; you have no reason to beat yourself on the head. A lot of us (women) had been taken in by Hillary’s padded resume but we’re not responsible for her lies and so she does not reflect badly on all of us.

    Though it s true that she’s not doing other strong and/or powerful women any favours with her behaviour; they’re all likely to get measured by her yardstick and come up short in the future, after *years* of asking for no favours and getting “there” on their own merits. And people like Mary, with her “I am WOMAN! Hear me MEWL! (about it being my turn now), are making things even worse.

  • Apologies for “Swanning”…

    At the risk of sounding like a demented shill for the “electoral vote” website, I encourage everyone to read today’s entry, the first para in particular. I needed that laugh 🙂
    http://www.electoral-vote.com/

  • They’re an embarrassment to humans everywhere.

    Well, exactly. But you won’t see me feeling personally humiliated. Like all good liberals, I have plenty of guilt. I’m not wasting any of that good stuff on Clinton or Cheney.

  • Of course, Obama can end this today by withdrawing himself. If he were not a self-centered, power-hungry, anything-to-win, grandiose (substitute other epithets used against Clinton) he would already have done so by now.

    Sadly, it’s no longer possible to tell if Mary is being sarcastic.

  • Of course, Obama can end this today by withdrawing himself. If he were not a self-centered, power-hungry, anything-to-win, grandiose (substitute other epithets used against Clinton) he would already have done so by now.

    Are we supposed to not be worried that a delusional moron like you is teaching the new generation, Mary?

    Nice to see Lance baby drinking the Kool-Aid too,

    Why is it Clintonistas are so fucking dumb???????

  • “Of course, Obama can end this today by withdrawing himself. If he were not a self-centered, power-hungry, anything-to-win, grandiose (substitute other epithets used against Clinton) he would already have done so by now.”

    I don’t follow the logic of this poster. Obama is leading,why would he withdraw?

  • Why is it Clintonistas are so fucking dumb???????

    Not just fricking dumb. But dumb with mustard and relish.
    The Clinton campaign is in the red…
    They can’t possibly win the only metric that matters: total delegate count.
    Yet Bill the fornicator (serial liar) is even now out in California trying to woo superdelegates for his wife (serial liar) to overthrow the righteousness of the math. We’ve even seen little Chelsea learning to lie just like mommy and daddy the last few weeks. How cute is that?

    Yeecch…

    The chutzpah of all this defies disgrace. The Clintonistas, from top to troll, are no different than the Bushies, from pop to pol, when you come right down to it. Willfully shoehorning reality to sate a quenchless lust for power. What a nightmare. What a spectacle of mirthless shame.

  • Post 44: Lex, you sound like a typical male sexist pig by mocking the struggles that women have gone through in this country to move toward equality.

  • “The VP vetting process will have to be dramatically curtailed.”

    Oh, I think the American People are getting a wonderful chance to vet a potential Vice President, since the best ticket is Clinton/Obama.

    If ever Hillary Clinton were in a position to select her running mate for VP, I think anyone taking that job would be nuts. In the Clinton World there is no oxygen for any other but Hill and Bill or Bill and Hill. IMO, the vice presidency under Hillary Clinton would be totally unsatisfying and thankless. There would never be a share of the limelight necessary to advance one’s career to the next level. The only thing more self-destructive than being Hillary’s running mate for VP would be having Hillary be one’s running mate for VP. No thanks all the way around.

    I am an Obama supporter, and I do not feel the least bit desperate. I see all the desperation is all on the side of the “Presumptive Nominee Who (so far) Is Not To Be.” Mary (taken at her word in her posts – rather than evaluating her as a Republican troll) is a classic example of a true believer who sees her dearly held hopes and dreams slipping away. Her arguments – today alone – have moved through offensive to boring to pathetic to comical and back again. She appears to believe that she is entitled to demand Obama’s abdication of his front runner status but she is righteously indignant that others suggest the junior senator from New York recognize her predicament (she is behind in votes and perhaps more tellingly, she is not exactly flush with cash – it certainly projects an admirable image that Senator Clinton is financing her campaign in part by stiffing small businesses) and bow out.

    I don’t get what Clinton’s end game is. I do not see how she gains the nomination without rending the party, so I do not understand her vow to take this thing to Denver. If she wants to compete in the remaining states – fine. [And, Lance, rules are rules except for FL and MI, I guess?] But, once the primaries are done, we need a candidate. I expect that candidate to be Obama.

  • Are we supposed to not be worried that a delusional moron like you is teaching the new generation, Mary?

    Given Mary’s comments about the “Roades Scholarship” and “Foreign Policy” majors and her use of Wikipedia as a source to refute official Census data, I think we can safely say that Mary’s claims to be a professor are simply lies.

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