The central front in the ‘war on terror’?

Is al Qaeda a greater threat to U.S. interests in Iraq, or in the Afghan-Pakistan border region? In one of the more interesting exchanges of yesterday’s hearings on the Hill, Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Joe Biden asked Ambassador Ryan Crocker that question, got an honest response, and set the Bush administration’s talking points back quite a bit.

Crocker clearly didn’t want to answer the question, and did his level best to avoid it, but Biden wasn’t going to let it go: “You had a choice: Lord almighty came down and sat in the middle of the table there and said ‘Mr. Ambassador you can eliminate every Al Qaeda source in Afghanistan and Pakistan, or every Al Qaeda personnel in Iraq,’ which would you pick?” Grudgingly, eventually, Crocker conceded he would pick al Qaeda “in the Pakistan-Afghanistan border area,” which prompted Biden to respond, “That would be a smart choice.”

I suspect the White House would take issue with that assessment. As Spencer Ackerman noted, Crocker was in an untenable position: “give the correct answer and humiliate the Bush administration [or] give the administration’s answer and look like a fool.” He went with the prior.

DDay added, “The Ambassador to Iraq just admitted that Iraq is not the central front in the war on terror. He just admitted that the potential for Al Qaeda to gain a beachhead in Iraq should the United States withdraw is miniscule compared to the already-established beachhead along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border. He admitted that the global fight against terror is currently misdirected.”

It was that kind of day yesterday.

The fine folks at Democracy Arsenal had an excellent wrap-up of some of the things we learned, and didn’t learn, over the course of yesterday’s hearings, including:

* Petraeus and Crocker refuse to tell us what our long term strategy is in Iraq, holding to the weak excuse that they can’t make predictions into the future. But they have no problem making scary predictions into the future about what will happen if we withdraw. Contradiction? We think so. […]

* Iran is the new Al Qaeda. A large portion of the questioning from Martinez, Lieberman, Graham was based on trying blame Iran for what happened in Basra. But as Senator Jack Reed pointed out, the Iranians are actually supporting all of the various Shi’a groups in Iraq, including those in league with the central government.

* Petraeus and Crocker repeatedly quoted Osama Bin Laden and his deputies that Iraq was the central front in the war on terror. But as Senators Bayh and Feingold pointed out we shouldn’t take our marching orders from Al Qaeda, as their strategy is to bleed and bankrupt the United States in Iraq.

* Ryan Crocker continues to present a rosy picture of what happened in Basra last week, saying that it has strengthened Maliki’s hand. But news on the ground today seems to undermine this claim with Sadr actually picking up support from various religious leaders.

* When asked by Senator John Warner whether Iraq was making us safer, Petraeus kept hedging and stated that it would ultimately be up to history. Not very comforting. […]

* Petraeus and Crocker can’t tell us if political reconciliation, the whole point of the surge, is actually happening.

I’d just add that it was Barack Obama, late in the day, who put on his lawyer hat and walked Petraeus and Crocker towards an important point.

Near the end of the afternoon, Sen. Barack Obama, the Democrats’ likely presidential nominee but a junior member of the foreign relations committee, finally got his turn to ask questions — and he homed in on one of the administration’s key conceptual failures.

Obama built up to his point with a series of questions. Our goal, he asked, isn’t to wipe out every member of al-Qaida in Iraq (an impossible feat), but rather to reduce AQI’s threat to manageable proportions, right? Petraeus agreed. And we’re not going to erase Iran’s influence in Iraq—they’re neighbors, after all. The goal is to make this relationship somewhat stable.

That being the case, Obama continued, what is the standard of success? What level of stability in Iraq would let us reduce our presence there to, say, 30,000 troops? What does a stable-enough Iraq look like? “If the definition of success is so high — no al-Qaida in Iraq, a highly effective Iraqi government … democracy, no Iranian influence — that portends … staying 30 to 70 years,” Obama said. What’s a more achievable definition? What’s a realistic goal, and what are we doing to get there? “I’m trying to get to an end point,” he said. “That’s what all of us are trying to do.”

This is what many critics and thoughtful supporters of the war have been trying to do for five years now. The Bush administration hasn’t addressed the issue. And, ultimately, neither did Petraeus or Crocker today.

Pressed on Obama’s search for an “end point,” Crocker could only say that it was “hard and complicated.” Brilliant.

We’ll have related fun throughout the day today.

“Is al Qaeda a greater threat to U.S. interests in Iraq, or in the Afghan-Pakistan border region?”

Neither. It’s George Bush and Dick Cheney and John McCain, plus the TeeVee “journalists” who wouldn’t know journalism if they looked it up (which, of course, they’re incapable of).

  • The hearings yesterday were indeed extremely fruitful with certain finer points of the insanity of the Iraq War being revealed and discussed. Barbara Boxer was very effective at revealing the dishonest attempt to blame Iran for our troubles. Also when Petraeus and Crocker were discussing how we pay off the Sunni tribesmen to the tune of $250,000 per day for a 125 square kilometer area, it begs a great question as to whether we are paying the Iraqis not to fight each other even as we babysit them and fight their battles for them.

    This morning, however, C-SPAN entertained Rep. Akin, a Republican. His lack of knowledge and understanding was so astounding and his attempts to misdirect all blame to Iran were such that when a caller asked about China’s funding of the war, the congressman stated that there were no funds or support coming from China to his knowledge, “the support is from Iran, Syria, and Lebanon.” Of course, par for C-SPAN, this went unchallenged and uncorrected.

  • No goals. No realistic goals. The wrong objective. The surge was pointless. Great just fucking great.

    For the money spent, it would have been easier to bribe the Iraqis to blow up their own nation. And for the lives lost? Despite what the diehard cement heads think, all in VAIN.

    A hearty FUCK YOU to all the asshole “liberal” war lovers at Salon.com who last week tried to spin their own way out of this mess. I expect this from Cons because they’re fucking stupid. Libs have no fucking excuse.

  • I have seen highlights, but the hearings themselves are too excruciating to watch. Do you think Petraeus and Crocker have any idea that the history books will remember them as spineless incompetents who helped contribute to the end of this country’s period of military dominance over the rest of the world? We simply don’t have the economic infrastructure to sustain our technological advantage much longer, and Iraq has destroyed much of our credibility for accomplishing our objectives (mainly because we don’t really have objectives other than handing the disaster off to the next administration).

  • CSPAN call-in shows – the most overrated place for news.

    I missed most of the hearings yesterday. Did anyone ask Pet-Crock whether Al Qaeda was getting support and training from Iran? Who called for the cease fire in Basra? Whether they expected alSadr to stand down or pose more significant threats in the near future? Whether the bills passed by Parliament would have any real effect?

  • It means nothing. Just a Kabuki dance. Congress holds hearings. Prathers on about how either: 1. The war in Iraq is the beachhead against terrorist. 2. A great drain on lives, money, etc. Depending on your polititcal point of view.

    Nothing changes. Congress will not turn off the money spigot to fund the war. This administration will never pull out. Thereby admitting that they were wrong. And good people, both American and Iraqi keep on dying.

    Nothing changes if nothing changes.

  • …Crocker was in an untenable position: “give the correct answer and humiliate the Bush administration [or] give the administration’s answer and look like a fool.” He went with the prior.

    And my guess is that he will soon decide that he really needs to spend more time with his family.

  • Perhaps a more pertinent question is how much support all of the nefarious actors in Iraq are getting from the US.

  • Shalimar – it is unfair and incorrect to describe Crocker and Petraeus as spineless incompetents. Crocker is an actual professional diplomat superbly qualified for any post in the Middle East. Petraeus is an excellent general, and clearly knows how to run a counter insurgency.

    The problem isn’t them, as Obama correctly noted yesterday – they are the guys who were called in to clean up a mess made by a monumental strategic mistake. They are also the guys who have to give testimony that is confined, to a considerable extent, by the mission they were given to accomplish and by the administration’s position. It would serve no good for them to just say f*&k it and quit.

    It is up to leadership to change the strategic dynamic, and no change will likely occur on that front until Bush is gone.

  • Petraeus and Crocker couldn’t provide full disclosure on many of the senators’ questions because they are not the commanders-in-chief! Their patchwork of deflection, hypotheticals and dogma were embarrassing to any individual who’s been paying attention to this president’s cockamamie foreign policy over the past five years. And, they will be but bit players for history to judge.

    This fiasco we know of as Iraq today will be historically known as Bush’s Bloody Folly. Our children will read and research information not at all flattering to this current president or anyone who was affiliated with his policies. -Kevo

  • I missed most of the hearings yesterday. Did anyone ask Pet-Crock whether Al Qaeda was getting support and training from Iran? -Danp

    Although a drooling Lieberman vociferously tried to indicate that Iran was “killing our troops”, the point was made several times that Iran actually supports Maliki’s administration and al Sadr as well. Sen. Boxer made a great point of this by reading a description of Ahmadenajad’s recent visit with Maliki, lots of kissing and hand holding, pomp and such, contrasting this with “our president” having to slip in unannounced for a few hour visit in secrecy. She repeatedly asked Crocker to explain this and after his third wordy attempt, she dramatically stated, “I give up, I give up.”

    Another senator made the point that if Iranians are killing American troops and Iraqi troops, Maliki would have to know about this, yet still entertains their president. Sen. Obama made an excellent point that two things would remain after we leave whenever it is, Iran will still be next door, and al Qaeda will try to reconstitute itself in Iraq. He pointed out that we cannot solve either of these problems as long as American troops remain, and he asked Petraeus to describe an “endpoint” of acceptable success that we could withdraw troops. Petraeus reluctantly agreed that we would leave a “somewhat messy” Iraq whenever we leave.

  • I had the hearings on here all day and got to watch a lot of them.

    McCain and his enablers (Lieberman and Graham) were almost laughably looking for the bright side to all of this, engaged in pathetic cheerleading. But the Democrats — and even a few key Republicans on the FR committee like Lugar, Hagel and even Voinovich (!) — offered some polite if very pointed criticism of the policy and the assertions behind it. I was pleasantly surprised.

  • Capt Kirk: Thanks.

    TR: Why are you surprised by Voinovich? Isn’t he one of the wafflers who speaks out against the Bush war policy, and even votes against it if it doesn’t disrupt a cloture vote? You know, kind of like Warner on the war, or Specter on the Justice Dept or McCain on tax policies.

  • HRC had an excellent question for Amb. Crocker following her prepared statement. It’s on the first part of this clip:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49IUcXGJatU

    She asked if the US Congress is allowed input into the Iraqi plan since the Iraqi government is allowed input. Crocker politely said No.

    At the same time I experienced a lot of resentment that she has refused to say her vote for the AUMF was a big mistake, and in fact she confidently reiterated Bush’s lies when she spoke about it more than once. She (and others of course) gave Bush the green light to do exactly what he’s doing, conduct a war without a Congressional declaration of war any way he pleases without input from Congress.

    Doesn’t she see the irony of reaping what you sow?

  • Do you think Petraeus and Crocker have any idea that the history books will remember them as spineless incompetents who helped contribute to the end of this country’s period of military dominance over the rest of the world?
    You say that as if it were a BAD thing?

  • wvng @9:

    They may not be incompetent, but they most certainly are spineless. They are supposed to be doing what is right for the US Army in Iraq, not backstopping this incompetent administration. No one is saying they should just say f**k it and leave, but they should at least have the spine to tell the truth.

  • I saw most of the hearings and I’m not inclined to be too critical of Petraeus. For the most part he was honest and direct. Crocker, while seeming at times almost competent, mostly reverted into a constant barrage of worn out words. He was like some kind of Mechanical Reading Robot Boy for the most part of his testimony. But away from his script, he was forced to confess that even he believes AQ in Iraq was not as much a threat as AQ in Afghanistan.

    After six years of absolute disregard for common sense, yesterday was a real milestone. I could almost hear the words of Robert Duvall in Apocalypse Now, “…someday, this war’s gonna end.”

  • This is specifically a response to David Gustof, but also to all those who have been castigating the Congress for not impeaching Bush or cutting off funding:

    Your hearts are in the right place, but somehow you never learned to count.

    We have a ONE vote majority in the Senate — if we keep Joe Lieberman from bolting. We wouldn’t even have that if George Allen hadn’t had his ‘macaca moment’ — in fact we might have had him playing Hillary to McCain’s Obama. If Tim Johnson hadn’t recovered enough to serve and had resigned, or if one Democratic Senator from a state with a Republican Governor had died or resigned, we’d have Cheney as the tie-breaker in a split Senate.

    In the House we have a bigger majority, but not a gigantic one, and much of that majority is because there are a number of extremely conservative Congressmen who call themselves Democrats and got elected as such. (And I don’t think our majority would be half as big as it is if it hadn’t been for Mark Foley and Ted Haggard, whose ‘pecadillos’ disgusted enough conservative Christians that they stayed home from the polls in a few close races.)

    Even in early 2007 two things were obvious. Barring catastrophe the numbers alone assured a larger Senatorial majority in the 2009 Congress. And the Republican party was in disarray, with no one capable — as Bush was — of holding together the various wings, or keeping them from arguing that it was ‘their turn’ to pick the candidate. It looked then — accurately as it turned out — that there was no Republican who could unite the party behind him, at least not without the sort of twists and turns that mcCain is still using — without that much success.

    The more perceptive could see that three Republican issues were losing strength. The war was growing ever more unpopular, Bushenomics was getting ready to bite us in the ass, and the social issues (read ‘the gay issue’) was losing force as the older bigots died off and the younger tolerants became old enough to vote.

    All of which meant that 2008 would be a monumental Democratic victory, with the Presidency, the Senate, and the House all strongly Democratic — if they didn’t blow it. And the only ways they could have blown it were either by ‘overreaching’ — trying and failing to do something like cutting off funding for the war (which would have also given historians and Republicans the right to say that Congress had supported it explicitly by voting down such a resolution) — or by giving the Republicans an issue that would have united them. (That’s what impeachment would have done. Bush would have been impeached — maybe — by the House, but there weren’t 17 ‘non-Democrats’ — including Joe Lie. — who would have voted to convict if there were a picture going around of Bush in the same toilet stall with Larry Craig and my pet goat. Meanwhile, the Republicans would have had a field day — spinning it into ‘payback for the Clinton impeachment’ so hard that the issues would have been forgotten.)

    Three final, quick points.
    It takes 60 votes in the Senate to force cloture against a determined Republican effort. (And yes, if they had to, they could conduct an ‘old-style fillibuster’ talking for hours at a time and keeping anything from getting done.)

    It takes 2/3 of both houses to override a veto.

    There are procedural methods for ‘forcing’ a President to go along with a vote — but remember what happened when Gingrich tried that. It gave Clinton back about half the popularity that Monica had cost him — and without a heavy Democratic spin machine at work.

    This entire long-wnded argument has been basically been saying “Be patient. You’ll get everything you want, next year. But if the Congress had rushed things without the votes, you might never have gotten them.”

  • Does any of it really matter ?
    Our Commander isn’t going to change anything of any significance.

    I think the question on most people’s minds are what are we going to do in January. Speaking of, what are we going to do in January ?

  • Neither Petraeus nor Crocker can tell us anything about future plans for finishing up this whole Iraq war mess simply because there is no desire within the current administration to end it. The plan was to:

    1. go into Iraq
    2. take over Iraq
    3. destroy Iraq
    4. pay Halliburton to rebuild Iraq
    5. start moving oil out of Iraq, through Western distributors
    6. stay in Iraq until all the oil is gone

    And there’ll be oil there for at least 20 years. Petraeus, Crocker, Bush, Cheneu, Wolfowitz, and all the others will be dead or retired by then.

    It’ll be President Chelsey Clinton’s job to get us out of there.

  • from swimming freestyle:

    “Perhaps if we look at the problem like grown-ups, not petulant kids who demand the game be played their way or no way…

    No one wants a shattered Iraq, full of sectarian militias battling each other, a nonfunctional government, and a bitter, pissed off populace. Instead of stubbornly adhering to a simplistic, “if I just wish hard enough it will happen” Bush strategy (a long term military presence to tamp down violence waiting for the Iraqi government to get it together), why not consider how we help the Iraq government function more effectively? If our current strategy is not yielding the desired results (some end point for U.S. involvement), isn’t it smart to change strategy until you find one that works?

    Isn’t that what grown-ups do?”

    http://swimmingfreestyle.typepad.com

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