The Clinton campaign’s morale problem

As yesterday’s spirited offensive should have made clear, Hillary Clinton is not about to fade away. The race for the Democratic nomination clearly isn’t going her way right now, and her overall chances may be slipping, but there’s no way in the world the senator is going to just fade away.

The NYT notes today, however, that Clinton is soldiering on amidst weakened morale and dashed hopes. She no longer uses phrases like “when I’m president,” and she’s “begun thanking some of her major supporters for helping her run for the Democratic presidential nomination,” which sounds a bit like someone who doesn’t plan on running for much longer.

Over take-out meals and late-night drinks, some regrets and recriminations have set in, and top aides have begun to face up to the campaign’s possible end after the Texas and Ohio primaries on March 4…. There is a widespread feeling among donors and some advisers, though, that a comeback this time may be improbable. Her advisers said internal polls showed a very tough race to win the Texas primary — a contest that no less than Mr. Clinton has said is a “must win.” And while advisers are drawing some hope from Mrs. Clinton’s indefatigable nature, some are burning out.

Morale is low. After 13 months of dawn-to-dark seven-day weeks, the staff is exhausted. Some have taken to going home early — 9 p.m. — turning off their BlackBerrys, and polishing off bottles of wine, several senior staff members said.

Some advisers have been heard yelling at close friends and colleagues. In a much-reported incident, Mr. Penn and the campaign advertising chief, Mandy Grunwald, had a screaming match over strategy recently that prompted another senior aide, Guy Cecil, to leave the room. “I have work to do — you’re acting like kids,” Mr. Cecil said, according to three people in the room.

Others have taken several days off, despite it being crunch time. Some have grown depressed, be it over Mr. Obama’s momentum, the attacks on the campaign’s management from outside critics or their view that the news media has been much rougher on Mrs. Clinton than on Mr. Obama.

And some of her major fund-raisers have begun playing down their roles, asking reporters to refer to them simply as “donors,” to try to rein in their image as unfailingly loyal to the Clintons.

Oddly enough, a story like this one about weak morale tends to contribute to even lower morale.

This paragraph also stood out for me:

In interviews with 15 aides and advisers to Mrs. Clinton, not a single one expressed any regrets that they were not working for Mr. Obama. Indeed, some aides said they were baffled that a candidate who had been in the United States Senate for only three years and was a state lawmaker in Illinois before that was now outpacing a seasoned figure like Mrs. Clinton.

It doesn’t surprise me at all that Clinton aides don’t regret joining Clinton’s team over Obama’s — campaigns are like that. I suspect if you’d asked 15 aides and advisers to Chris Dodd in early January, not a single one would express any regrets that they were not working for another candidate either.

But I’m not entirely sure why Clinton aides are “baffled” by Obama succeeding despite his relative inexperience. Matt Yglesias’ take was uncharitable, but accurate: “Whether or not you think the more ‘seasoned’ candidate ought to win presidential elections, it seems to me that any campaign staffer who could be genuinely ‘baffled’ by experience not proving to be a winning issue is demonstrating a scary ignorance of how things work. Is her staff baffled that Joe Biden didn’t win the nomination?”

It does also speaks to what I think has been apparent for quite some time — Clinton and her team not only underestimated Obama, they dismissed him as someone who shouldn’t have even run in the first place. Perhaps that’s why they’re baffled — they’re losing to someone whose very campaign they consider presumptuous.

In retrospect, they probably should have taken him more seriously.

Watching Hillary shake her finger and say Barack should be ashamed I felt like I was watching a mother lecture a child. Then after pondering the matter for a few hours I thought I wonder how things might have been different if Hillary had publicly taken the attitude exhibited yesterday with Bill back in the Monica days.

  • The part of the article I find interesting is the childish behavior of Mark Penn. This isn’t the first time I’ve heard of him getting in screaming matches with folks.

    He’s typical of people with a huge and fragile ego. He KNOWS he’s right, and bets the farm on him being right, and when it goes wrong, he has no plan B.

  • It’s sad to hear that Clinton’s aides have to go home at night so depressed.

    I wonder if rolling around on the giant piles of cash they’ve gotten from the campaign helps put them in a better mood? Maybe Mark Penn built a play fort out of the $2 million he got from Hillary in January.

    I say this as a lifelong Democrat — I will never, ever, ever vote for any candidate who hires any of these morons. If I see the names Mark Penn, Howard Wolfson, Harold Ickes, or any of the rest linked to your campaign, it will be a crystal-clear sign to me that you, as a candidate, have zero judgment.

  • I don’t think the Clinton campaign made any major mistake aside from not allowing enough wiggle room for a plan B. The Super Tues Strategy was logical and reasonable, except that Obama has caught lightning in a bottle. That’s not something you can plan for, especially considering his “lack of experience”.

    If Obama’s campaign is a brash start-up operation, Clinton’s has been more that of an established corporation. It wasn’t nimble enough to respond to the brash start-up on the fly. Once Obama’s strength became apparent, Clinton’s task became to turn the Titanic around in a bathtub, while Obama was free to cruise.

    I can’t fault her for underestimating Obama in her campaign’s planning stages – who didn’t? Her mistake was building a machine so large and cumbersome that it couldn’t adapt quickly enough – which could be disastrous in the general election.

  • Morale Problem? Of course she has a morale problem! This isn’t a mystery…

    Barack Obama is 11-0!!! America wants change! We don’t trust the Clintons to deliver! Hillary Clinton is one of the most negative, divisive, polarizing politicians in America!

    Clinton sold her campaign to the highest bidders (lobbyists) – not to the American people – and she will have to pay the price for that. Now, when she really needs help from “the people” they want no part. American refuses to fund the Clinton Smear Machine.

    So a 527 Group steps in to do it! No big surprise here! And the Clintons wonder why nobody trusts them???

    The Clintons are desperate and playing dirty, which only proves how crooked and pathetic they are!!! Their frighteningly cold, aloof, condescending posturing toward the “less experienced” Barack Obama smacks of HYPOCRISY!

    In 1992, when Bill Clinton was running against Bush Sr. (who had the Washington-insider experience at the time), BILL CLINTON HIMSELF DECLARED, “The same old experience is not relevant.” Bill Clinton added that the most useful training comes NOT from hanging around the White House and Congress but rather from experience “rooted in the real lives of real people” so that “it will bring real results if we have the COURAGE TO CHANGE.”

    So change was good then, but not now? Interesting.

    The MSNBC Hillary Clinton “documentary” features one of Hillary’s closest friends saying (with pride), almost word for word: “Hillary learned (in Arkansas) how to win elections. Go negative and attack your opponent in a personal way!”

    I guess in “Billaryland,” you stick with what you know. Except that American politics is changing, and the Clintons are left looking like they didn’t get the memo.

    “Solutions not speeches”…” Good works, not good words”… “Time to get real”… We’re not buying it!

    Billary, please show us something you never have before – dignity and grace – get out now before you tear apart the party or saddle us with 3rd Bush term (McCain)!

  • As yesterday’s spirited offensive should have made clear, Hillary Clinton is not about to fade away.

    That’s exactly wrong. Her “spirited offensive” was purely for the benefit of her donors who have paid to see her give it one last college try. It was a requisite step toward ending the campaign. It was totally for show and a clear signal that she is about to fade away.

  • Preaching hope, inspiration, change, with no substance, no specifics, no media challenge, and media fawning, Obama is instructive of how demagogues rise to power to inflict horrors on humanity.

    Clinton’s campaign moral problem is biased media against Hillary Clinton. The NYT story is on a level with the smear article on McCain. Biased media against Hillary Clinton that has swayed voters to Obama. Biased media has shifted poll numbers in favor of Obama. This Democratic nomination process continues to be undermined by pro-Obama biased media against Hillary Clinton. If she does not win Ohio and Texas and get the Democratic nomination, it will be because of the pro-Obama biased media against her.

  • I do not understand why you cannot wait until after Obama secures the nomination to start gloating. Clinton has been leading in Ohio and Texas, despite Obama’s latest push. She is right to complain about his mailers. This is all normal campaigning. Framing it as gallant perseverence in the face of defeat makes you look silly. She may lose the nomination, but she hasn’t lost it today.

  • Only one campaign wins. Sen. Clinton has run well and taken advantage of her strengths in a hard-driving effort for the nomination. However, her supporting cast has not served her well and she is facing an exceptional candidate in Sen. Obama. She has every right to stay in the race as long as she feels she has a chance at winning legitimately.

    I hope and expect that she has the dignity and grace to bow out if it becomes apparent she can only win by lawyering and backroom deals.

  • Haik… this comment of yours didn’t draw traction yesterday and I am glad you posted it again. But I am going to argue against it here with a quote from the Times article CB links to:

    When she’s on the road and someone has a negative news story, she says, ‘I don’t want to hear it; I don’t need to hear it.’ I think she wants to protect herself from that and stay focused.

    She is a bubble manager…
    A la Bush. This has become quite clear in a spate of articles this last week.

    And that’s why Frank Rich’s column today, comparing her flailing campaign to Bush’s management of the Iraq war draws arterial blood. Bush’s insular certainty comes from the gut. Clinton’s insular certainty comes from the intellect. But the bubble that cloaks them is the same one: HUBRIS. And it is that hubris that will keep her in the trench until a bulldozer plows it over.

  • crat3,
    I think your comment is representitive of Clinton and her supporters view of Obama. You underestimate and belittle the man. It is rather silly to continue to repeat the meme that Obama lacks substance. If you go to his website or read his book, you realize that this is the case that he lacks subatance. As for the media being nasty towards Clinton,I don’t deny that is the case but media has always been nasty towards her even before Obama came onto the scene.

  • Mary,

    While I agree that the nomination contest is not over thus the gloating is unjustified, HRC cannot stop Obama’s momentum unless she wins those states in a blowout which doesn’t look likely. She needs to get at least 60% of the vote and the polls do not indicate such scenario.

  • Anyone who has ever worked for a failing company has seen much of the same dynamic. Big egos in people who have always been successful tend to point fingers, yell, and even pass blame through snide off-the-record comments. They also do things like not share financial facts with one another candidly. Ethics are rationalized, teamwork disintegrates, and key people leave. What is happening in the Clinton camp pales by comparison to the Bush administration, but on a smaller level, the dynamic is there.

  • Clinton’s campaign moral problem is biased media against Hillary Clinton…Biased media has shifted poll numbers in favor of Obama.

    I gotta call b.s. here.

    Clinton claims to be “vetted” and “battle-tested”, but the media has mostly remained silent on her refusal to secure the release of White House records from the First Lady’s office and her refusal to release her tax returns. She’s deliberately hiding this information from us while trying to persuade us that she’s “vetted”. Imagine if she were to win the nomination and then harmful information from these records were to whack us on the back of the head during the general election.

    I’m not saying that I know that these records have anything damaging in them. Nobody can know. However, without the release of these records, if being vetted one of the criteria that we should consider, then Hillary Clinton is not the person we should nominate.

  • She has every right to stay in the race as long as she feels she has a chance at winning legitimately.

    Sadly, she cannot win with dignity. The only way for her to win is with superdelegates and/or delegates from states where Obama wasn’t even on the ballot to overturn the will of the people. If Hillary won that way (which she’s prepared to do), then it would not be a win accomplished with dignity.

  • Only one campaign wins. Sen. Clinton has run well and taken advantage of her strengths in a hard-driving effort for the nomination. However, her supporting cast has not served her well…

    It’s actually condescending to Hillary Clinton to blame her staff for her troubles. In doesn’t speak well of her judgement in hiring and management skills.

    In truth, Hillary’s staff has served her very well. They have provided and continue to provide the kind of campaign she wants. When Penn and Wolfson and the rest speak, they speak for her. They’re a reflection of her.

    If anybody hasn’t served Hillary Clinton well, it’s Hillary Clinton.

  • JoeW (5) “I don’t think the Clinton campaign made any major mistake aside from not allowing enough wiggle room for a plan B.”

    How about not slating enough delegates for Pennsylvania? Or not knowing the rules for Texas primaries before announcing it as part of their fire-wall? Or alienating African Amerians even as they had tremendous black support in the polls?

  • Preaching hope, inspiration, change, with no substance, no specifics

    If by “no specifics” you mean he has a website with detailed, multi-page PDFs available for anyone to see, then yes, you’re absolutely right. I mean, some people might say that literally hundreds of pages with thickly enumerated policy papers were “specifics,” but they’d probably just be Obama cultists.

    I’m sorry you’re too lazy and/or stupid to read these materials. But don’t insult the rest of us by pretending they don’t exist.

  • Chester, I do agree with you that Hilary Clinton is ultimately responsible for her campaign. She made strategic choices and personnel moves that appear likely to fall short of gaining the nomination. I don’t believe she has been as battle-tested as advertised. I voted for Sen. Obama in part because he has shown good judgement, foresight and the ability to execute a plan in running his campaign.

    Her campaign looks like it will fall short. Sen. Clinton has a choice: to complete the race with dignity or take us down a very bad path. Honest competition until the nomination is secured is honorable. Trying to seat Michigan in order to win is not honorable and will (imho) virtually guarantee President McCain.

  • “I wonder if rolling around on the giant piles of cash they’ve gotten from the campaign helps put them in a better mood? Maybe Mark Penn built a play fort out of the $2 million he got from Hillary in January.”

    Nah, $2 million would be a nice pile on your desk but for a decent play fort he needs at least $30 or $40 million. Gotta win to make that kinda money.

  • Obama is not an exceptional candidate. He is a blank slate onto which people have projected their hopes. He has been given a free pass by the media which has perpetuated the illusions. When you look closely at his record you see that there is no there there. He has shamelessly pandered to certain constituencies abandoning traditional democratic voters and his promise to unite people is empty because conservatives will not allow any bipartisanship, no matter who is elected. Picking the most conservative Democrat isn’t going to bring the country together or heal old wounds. It will alienate progressives and leave us with someone unable to compromise and similarly unable (by personality) to take bold steps. His promises aren’t worth s***. He is a cautious man who has done nothing bold in any of his previous positions and there is no reason to think he will suddenly become the magical agent of change he offers himself as. He is not a new kind of candidate, since he is using the same old campaign tricks against Clinton. Chicago politics are as dirty as they come, and he has succeeded in that venue.

    I personally do not see the point of voting for someone just to achieve a historical moment with the first African American president. I want someone who will undo the Bush administration and fix the problems we are facing. I think Hillary is more likely to be able and willing to do that. If she is not nominated, I won’t vote for Obama. I will vote for Ralph Nader or write in Al Gore.

    All this “Hillary has lost” garbage is just opposition campaigning, which Obama people are propagating. It isn’t accurate to call someone who is so close in the delegate count out of the race. That unfairness is just the latest in a whole string of anti-Hillary tactics. It doesn’t have to be a “blow-out” in Ohio or Texas. She has to win. She is ahead in PA. Who knows where she stands with superdelegates, people whose votes can wobble back and forth until the convention. This idea that it is somehow wrong to campaign among the superdelegates is silly. Candidates campaign everywhere with everyone. This isn’t over until we have a nominated candidate or someone concedes. Stop trying to knock her out of the race with predictions. It takes votes to do that.

  • That Hill’s campaign staff is baffled that Hillary’s highly touted experience isn’t winning out over Obama’s message means that they don’t get politics and they don’t get elections. Hillary’s advisors have misread the American public, plain and simple. Whether Barack and his crew are simply more cunning or whether he is just being who he is, he is resonating with the public in ways that Hillary never has.

    Mark Penn and crew have been trying to force a message on Americans. Elections have an awful lot to do with telling Americans what they want to hear and in this election people are pissed and they want change. Hillary telling everyone that she has more experience in Washington sounds to many like she will be more of the same, that she’s too much of an insider. If Penn and his cohort knew what they were doing, they would have read what the American public was saying, not looking for justifications to cram their message down people’s throats.

  • He is a blank slate onto which people have projected their hopes.

    Or, In Mary’s case, their deep-seated paranoias.

    I’m really starting to suspect Mary’s a troll planted by the Obama camp to make Clinton supporters look like deranged, petty and pathetic cultists who’ll only support their chosen candidate and abandon the party out of selfishness and spite if they don’t get their way.

  • Haik… this comment of yours didn’t draw traction yesterday and I am glad you posted it again.

    Well, we’re all just being pundits, after all. None of us really know, but it’s lots of fun to speculate and share opinions… and it’s nice to be noticed. Thanks ROTFLMLiberalAO @11.

  • If Penn and his cohort knew what they were doing, they would have read what the American public was saying, not looking for justifications to cram their [experience] message down people’s throats.

    Hear hear.

  • Uh, Mary re your statement “All this “Hillary has lost” garbage is just opposition campaigning, which Obama people are propagating.”

    Obama has nearly 100 more delegates than Clinton. Right now. Today. More than likely Obama will get at least a vote or two from Texas and Ohio. This means that Hillary has to not only “win” EVERY REMAINING CONTEST but she has to win by 20% MORE than Obama in every one of them JUST TO PULL EVEN to what he has TODAY.

    Don’t think that’s gonna to happen…

    As for your claim that Obama is a “blank slate”, what year did you graduate from Harvard?

  • Mary said,

    I personally do not see the point of voting for someone just to achieve a historical moment with the first African American president.

    hey, Mary, how bout voting for the democratic candidate? or is this all gonna be sour grapes? Grow up, this isn’t just about Hillary, this is about our country.

    I didn’t vote for Hillary, but if she is the candidate, I will proudly vote for her, because nothing..nothing, is more important than getting the republicans out of power…nuff said..

  • If Clinton wants to further promote the idea that one term in the US Senate isn’t enough qualification for the presidency, then how might she explain her husband’s being elected POTUS—twice—without so much as one single day of federal experience?

    She’s toast….

  • Mary’s latest screed is such a thing of insanity, I thought I’d take the time to translate it.

    Obama is not an exceptional candidate.

    Sure, the Obama cultists will tell you that we’ve never seen a single candidate win ten-out-of-ten primary contests in a row, by margins of seventeen percentage points or higher, in the history of modern primary politics. But I have it on good authority that none of these states count.

    He is a blank slate onto which people have projected their hopes. He has been given a free pass by the media which has perpetuated the illusions.

    Leave aside the endless media speculation over the dirty tactics we’ve tried to smear him with — plagiarism, lack of patriotism, empty rhetoric, whatever. In the end, this is all about tradition. Do we really want to break with past practices and run a candidate who the media won’t torpedo and undermine at every turn?

    When you look closely at his record you see that there is no there there.

    Even though I’ve been asked on this site to present specific details that I disagree with Obama on, I steadfastly refuse and will instead claim over and over again like a child that he just has no substance. Why? It’s easier than actually making a case!

    He has shamelessly pandered to certain constituencies abandoning traditional democratic voters

    Just like Jesse Jackson! Wink-wink!

    and his promise to unite people is empty because conservatives will not allow any bipartisanship, no matter who is elected.

    Who cares if the Democrats and independents are behind him, and he has the support of the media as I’ve already insisted? Against the awesome power of Minority Whip Roy Blunt, nothing can be done! So why even try? “Hillary: Let’s Settle for Less.”

    Picking the most conservative Democrat isn’t going to bring the country together or heal old wounds.

    Yes, I know National Journal is insisting that Obama is the most liberal Democrat in the Senate by his voting record. But voting records have a well-known pro-Obama bias!

    It will alienate progressives and leave us with someone unable to compromise and similarly unable (by personality) to take bold steps.

    Like the bold progressive steps of the Clinton years, when Democrats were told to embrace NAFTA and roll back AFDC welfare coverage and limit the scope of affirmative action! Man, we were on the cutting edge of progressivism back then!

    His promises aren’t worth s***. He is a cautious man who has done nothing bold in any of his previous positions and there is no reason to think he will suddenly become the magical agent of change he offers himself as.

    But my candidate’s promises are wholly to be believed. She’ll deliver on universal health care — just like she promised to do 15 years ago!

    He is not a new kind of candidate, since he is using the same old campaign tricks against Clinton. Chicago politics are as dirty as they come, and he has succeeded in that venue.

    I have no proof or even insinuations that he’s done anything wrong, but once again I will simply smear him as dirty. Because who doesn’t love some nice guilt by association?

    I personally do not see the point of voting for someone just to achieve a historical moment with the first African American president.

    But voting for someone just because she’d be the first female president? Sure!

    I want someone who will undo the Bush administration and fix the problems we are facing. I think Hillary is more likely to be able and willing to do that. If she is not nominated, I won’t vote for Obama. I will vote for Ralph Nader or write in Al Gore.

    Listen, people, the most important thing to me is fixing the damages brought by George Bush. Which is why I will throw my vote away on a write-in candidate and not work for the Democratic ticket if my favored candidate doesn’t win the nomination.

    All this “Hillary has lost” garbage is just opposition campaigning, which Obama people are propagating. It isn’t accurate to call someone who is so close in the delegate count out of the race. That unfairness is just the latest in a whole string of anti-Hillary tactics.

    As we all know, math has a well-known pro-Obama bias.

    It doesn’t have to be a “blow-out” in Ohio or Texas. She has to win.

    Again, never mind the fact that she needs to get 60% of the delegates and the polls are predicting an even split. Math is the enemy!

    She is ahead in PA. Who knows where she stands with superdelegates, people whose votes can wobble back and forth until the convention. This idea that it is somehow wrong to campaign among the superdelegates is silly.

    Yes! Take that, imaginary strawman!

    Candidates campaign everywhere with everyone. This isn’t over until we have a nominated candidate or someone concedes. Stop trying to knock her out of the race with predictions. It takes votes to do that.

    As President Bush said, “Hiostory? We don’t know, we’ll all be dead!” So save the predictions until the race is over! Meanwhile, I’m going to do my best to persuade people to vote for Hillary by ranting and raving, and denouncing anyone who doesn’t agree with me 100% as a traitor!

  • Mary (#9) said: “I do not understand why you cannot wait until after Obama secures the nomination to start gloating. Clinton has been leading in Ohio and Texas, despite Obama’s latest push. She is right to complain about his mailers. This is all normal campaigning. Framing it as gallant perseverence in the face of defeat makes you look silly. She may lose the nomination, but she hasn’t lost it today.”

    I agree with you on your first point, Mary. I have said this before, we Obama supporters should not be strutting around and pounding our chests just yet…and, in fact, should never act in that way. Sure, Clinton is in a tough spot, but she and Obama have had a remarkably close campaign battle, as the deligate count shows, and it ain’t over yet.

    On your second point, I disagree…sort of. The mailers are for the most part accurate. She is, of course, free to dispute the tone of the mailers as not in the spirit of his (Obama’s) rhetoric, but on the facts she has zero room for argument.

    Now, having said all that, I predict that the deligate count in Texas will go to Obama. Ohio is another matter. The trend is toward Obama, but I am not sure if he will catch her there. But it will be close. And if he DOES win Texas and comes close in Ohio, then for all intents and purposes, her campaign is over. But, as I already said, no one should be gloating. This is the time for all people supporting Democratic candidates to unify to defeat McCain.

  • Here’s a humorous post from Limerick over at http://www.HotAir.com.

    ********
    Texas TV is Obamaland. Every single talk show, political show, and news round-up is ObamaROCKS! The SNL sketch of the Obama/Hillary debate wasn’t far off the mark. Obama was here, Obama was there, Obama said, Obama did, Obama Obama Obama, oh yeah, Hillary was there someplace. I don’t think I’ve even heard McCain’s name mentioned in the last four or five days here.

    Prediction: Obama takes Texas by 12-15 points. Change might be an empty suit, but it seems to be made out of Kevlar.

    Limerick on February 24, 2008 at 2:03 PM

    ********

    Although I don’t agree with this whole “woe is Hillary/media in the tank for Obama” nonsense, I do think he’ll take TX. If the media was really so against the Clintons, they’d be smacking them upside the head with all their scandals, those which occurred before and during Bill’s presidency, and AFTERWARD – What’s in those tax returns? Why did the Saudi royal family contribute $10 Million to the Clinton library (republicans could make a big deal of it to tie them to terrorists)? Etc.

    If the media spent all their time focusing on the Clinton scandals, including Bill’s bimbo eruptions (this is a co-presidency), they could have sunk Hillary’s candidacy a long time ago. Instead, the liberal media is giving them a pass and just hoping they survive the republican oppo researchers if she becomes the nominee. In addition, she loses 11 in a row, and they’re still keeping her candidacy alive by talking about a Texas-Ohio comeback! Billary should count their blessings.

  • Hillary is a Bush war-enabler. She voted to give Bush the authority to start the war on Iraq. She keeps saying that she is ready to step into Bush’s shoes on day one. (What she doesn’t say is that she will happily keep the wars of imperial aggression in Iraq and Afghanistan going indefintely…). I would be very afraid of Hillary Presidency if I lived in Iran… Hillary is one very angry woman and probably the citizens of Tehran would ending dying by the thousands in a massive air attack ordered by Hill..

  • Anitra… in post # 6…. You’re not hiding your Clinton Derangement Syndrome very well.

    “the most negative, divisive, polarizing politicians in America” betrayed your feelings…. Do you really believe that Hillary is just that? Have you already forgotten about the previous Republican congress and the current crop of republican idiots in congress, walking out on a vote, and the obstructionist Republican Senators?

    Do some reading and you’ll find that Hillary is actually respected by some Republicans, because she reaches across the isle.

    I’m not going to take the time to point out the other flaws in your accusations.

    No, I am not a Hillary supporter, but before you bash someone harshly the way you do… it would be nice if you had some proof of your (Republican) talking points. Either you’ve been reading one too many Anne Coulter books, or been listening to Rush Limbaugh on your car radio.

  • The Obama Hope-ists frenzy is putting the cart before the horse in hopes of discouraging Clinton supporters from sticking with her. With the help of the media pundits’ new found Obama “insurgency” with young voters pronouncement, Hillary is supposed to bow out of the race “with dignity”. Super-Delegates who last week were being told that lining up with Hillary was undemocratic this week are being told lining up with Obama before the Convention is the democratic message. Eight years ago the Bush message was “Change” Today Obama’s message is “change”. Bush’s argument was “Washington needed “change”. Today it’s Obama’s argument “Washington” needs to “change”.

    BTW, Women need to know that if they decide that Hillary isn’t the woman qualified to be President it will be a long time before any better qualified woman appears on the political scene.

  • I agree with Chester @17. This is the campaign strategy Hillary wanted and what she promised us. If people will remember, she was the Invincible Fighter and not only owned that label, it was supposed to be her biggest strength. She could have had any advisors she wanted. She’s had these people for a long time and paid them a small fortune. This isn’t the fault of her advisors. She agreed with their advice all along the way and wrapped herself in it.

    Please let’s not insult her by pretending she’s some mindless patsy who got duped by flawed advisors. It’d be one thing if she had a good strategy that was pooly executed by underlings; though that’d be her fault too. But the strategy was flawed and unless we’re to imagine she’s too dumb to know how to run a campaign, I don’t see how the blame doesn’t lie with her. Even the media attacks were entirely predictable, and if she couldn’t handle them, she shouldn’t have been running.

    But this ties into the big theme of this campaign: Hillary needed our protection. Protection from Republicans, the media, Hillary’s fierce critics, Obama, and even her own campaign. While Obama ran on a platform of hope and making America a better place, Hillary ran on the platform that this will be a hard long slog to get her into the Whitehouse. Between these two options, the choice was clear.

  • BTW, Women need to know that if they decide that Hillary isn’t the woman qualified to be President it will be a long time before any better qualified woman appears on the political scene.

    Can you honestly believe that’s an effective argument? Really?? That’s one of the more anti-feminist arguments I’ve heard in awhile. At least the Limbaughs are trying to be offensive, but you guys do it just to get votes. I thought we were supposed to vote for Hillary because she was the best qualified candidate. Now we’re being told that we need to give her special treatment because she’s a woman. As someone who considers the feminist position to be such a no-brainer that I wouldn’t call myself a feminist, I find this idea fairly offensive. It’s one thing for someone to appeal to race or gender issues to promote their candidate (though I disagree with that); but using race or gender as scare tactics is just wrong.

    Besides, no one said she wasn’t qualified to be president. We said that Obama was a better choice. The fact that you pretend that it’s otherwise is yet another example of the desperation that has permeated Hillary’s campaign since her loss in Iowa; and one of the big flaws with it. Desperation is very unappealing. And the anti-Obama scare tactics were even worse.

  • wlgriffi wrote:

    BTW, Women need to know that if they decide that Hillary isn’t the woman qualified to be President it will be a long time before any better qualified woman appears on the political scene.

    BTW…
    You sir do a dishonor to the yin part of the yin-yang universe.
    There are at least two great woman governor’s out there who are poised to break into the national scene in a huge way:

    Janet Napolitano:
    http://www.governor.state.az.us/
    Kathleen Sibelius:
    http://www.governor.ks.gov/

    I’ll bet you a month’s worth of dunkin’-doughnuts that Barack brings Napolitano and Sibelius to DC in prominent roles that will grow their national constituencies. Both are in their second terms. That’s the good news. But it gets even better: Neither Napolitano or Sibelius has BillyBigDog baggage, and neither has ever launched into a taped screed like the Hillbilly did yesterday.

    So keep your chin up old boy.
    We will have a woman president sooner than you think.

  • independent thinker – I have said this before, we Obama supporters should not be strutting around and pounding our chests just yet…and, in fact, should never act in that way.

    Hats off to you sir/m’am. Your attitude is a breath of fresh air. I hope that it becomes contagious among Obama supporters.

  • Women need to know that if they decide that Hillary isn’t the woman qualified to be President it will be a long time before any better qualified woman appears on the political scene. — wigriffi, @35

    The day I vote for “a woman” (or “a black”) — ie, for a generic symbol — is the day I’ll apply for a brain transplant. Historical firsts are all very nice, but not what this election will be about. We need to decide which *particular* woman (or black) is best positioned to take on the hard job of cleaning up the Augean stables the Bush cabal will be leaving behind. And I happen to think that Obama will do the job more efficiently, if only because he’s more likely to bring in more Dems into Congress. IOW, he’s more likely to create a situation where he will be able to spend more time on getting legistation passed instead of spending it all on wrangling with opposition.

    Combat boots may be effective in some situations, but so are sneakers on the feet of a fleet runner.

  • Zeitgeist and a number of us are watching the gloating. While I try very hard not to judge a candidate or prophet by his followers, it is a difficult.

  • While I try very hard not to judge a candidate or prophet by his followers, it is a difficult

    It shouldn’t be. Sorry to break the news to you, but you’ve been on the same team with many of these followers you now deride. Not just for the past seven years, but many of these people were Clinton supporters in the 90’s. What does that tell you about these people? Was Bill tainted by their support? Of course not. The nomination is coming to a close. Let’s try to remember that we were all on the same team before this started.

    Oh, and it would really help if you stopped insulting us. I don’t know what you think to gain by the “prophet” bit, but that was always a big smear against us, and totally unfair. We’re not stupid. We just disagreed with you. Please treat us accordingly. That’s one of the weirdest things about the Hillary people. Sure, people from both sides insulted the other; but only the Hillary people imagined they weren’t being rude. I’m not sure when it became uncool for liberals to be idealists who are inspired by their leaders, but I liked things better the other way.

  • Zeitgeist and a number of us are watching the gloating. While I try very hard not to judge a candidate or prophet by his followers, it is a difficult.

    Let me second what the good doctor said @ 43.

    Unlike some of the Hillary supporters here who are threatening to sit out the general election if she’s not the nominee, I am a lifelong Democrat and will vote for the candidate that my party puts forth in the fall election no matter who it is. I was an Edwards backer, but when he dropped out of the race, I had to pick between Obama and Clinton. In what is apparently an unpardonable sin in the eyes of my party’s betters, I dared to pick Obama.

    Although you seem to believe that my preference for another candidate is somehow a result of insane Clinton hatred, I have consistently supported the Clintons in the past. I did phone banking for Clinton in the 1992 primaries, door-to-door canvassing and more calls for Clinton-Gore in the general election, and then did it all again in 1996.

    But again, I’m a Democrat. I stand behind the party, not a single candidate. I believe in what this party stands for and I think there are real differences between what we have to represent in policy, programs, and appointments to everything from regulatory bodies to the Supreme Court. I’m invested in those issues, and I choose to support Obama in this campaign because I am convinced that he presents the best chance to get large numbers of progressive Democrats elected from across the country and make the Democratic agenda a reality.

    This fall, Democrats will be working hard to get our candidate elected. If you can’t support that, feel free to stop calling yourself a Democrat. Joe Lieberman will welcome you into his holier-than-thou party of one.

  • I’m seconding # 43 Doctor Biobrain, and # 44 TR

    I was one of the many people hoping/wishing that Hillary would announce and run, back in ’06. I was a Hillary Clinton supporter until I heard that she was planning on challenging the Florida and Michigan (?) delegates to be seated at the convention. Maybe even challenging and courting the super delegates to switch their allegiance.

    Personally, I feel that this definitely comes close to being a play from the Rove book – trying to seat delegates that were excluded by the DNC.

    In an earlier post I even defended Hillary Clinton who was unfairly portrayed and accused by some posters here. Get the facts straight before blurting out Republican talking points.

    So… I have switched my allegiance to Obama. And like so many intelligent people who comment here on CB, I will vote for the Democratic nominee, regardless of who wins. No sour grapes, or throwing my vote away by staying home or voting for Nader or anybody else who feels the need to start a ‘third’ party.

    We all want the same thing: Rid the country of Republican rule. Does it really matter whether it’s done by Hillary or Obama and all the ‘good’ senators? I certainly hope you know how to answer that questions honestly.

  • Frankly, I don’t understand why there’s any mystery about Hillary Clinton’s performance to date. Little to do with campaign management, etc.

    If you look at the polls and public comment over the past years, you see she is quite widely disliked and mistrusted by the American people. She has only pockets of true constituency, nowhere near a majority of voters.

    When Obama came along many were not firmly enough committed to her to remain loyal. His intelligence, charisma and air of benevolence made the switch easy.

    I suspect my thinking is not that different from many other Democrats (and progressive Independents).

  • Just a quick thought regarding so-called media bashing of Hillary Clinton.

    Seems to me that’s not true strictly speaking. One example: the media has failed to demand that she release her tax returns. Her refusal to do what Obama and McCain have already done would normally wave a big red flag to journalists, particulary given the extensive so far unspecified financial interests of the Clintons.

  • These guys sound like the French General Staff the week after the British evacuated Dunkirk.

    Hillary has been out-thought, out-strategized, out-organized, out-fought. She was fighting The War of the 1990s while Obama was introducing 4GW war, the same way the French were fighting World War I while the Germans were introducing blitzkrieg

    It couldn’t happen to a more deserving bunch of asswipes. Mark Penn, Terry McAuliffe, all the other pinstriped D.C. pimps. Losers all.

  • No Mystery about who is the better candidate or who’s winning or who is losing.
    Senator Clinton trails by 300,000 votes and 70 delegates. She has all the large states and everyone knows that the small state wins don’t convince superdelegates unless a candidate has won at least one large state.

    Voter Suppression and fraud on the part of Republicans trying to block Senator Clintons nomination has been rampant in every state. After all, Republicans wrote a book on how to suppress the voters ( which is fraud). But this year they have a different twist to voter suppression by enlisting thousands of Republicans to be Democrat for a day, Obamas votes are not true Dem votes. They are from the “Dems for a day”. He won’t get those votes in the general.

    Repubs are stealing the election again and they are very organized. I have proof.

    Americans need to go after Karl Rove who is behind this all. We need to indict him for interfereing in the politcal system and democracy for the last 17 years. Karl Rove is the devil incarnate. He is disaster for America. In all these years he has put people Democrats) in jail just to block their run for office or remove them from office. At least he has ruined their reputation and stolen elections. He is petty and criminalistic. Why isn’t he the one who’s reputation isn’t ruined and why isn’t he the one who’s in jail? I’d like to squash his face.
    We need fairness (even if mud-slinging is present.) As long as he is around it won’t happen. Why isn’t anyone putting his arse away forever? If Democrats want the white house then Karl Rove needs to be indicted for his crimes against American democracy.

    I will not keep silent.

  • I write to you hopeful that you are not already wincing at yet another shot of Hillary Clinton flashing her “solutions” smile or at the umpteenth reiteration of “hope,” “unity,” “yes we can” ™to come from Mr. Obama. A year ago nobody expected the primary season to last much longer than a month, and yet, here we are. It is time for democrats in Ohio to make a choice, to think about what our fundamental values are, and to make an argument for why one of these two individuals hews more to these values than the other. I won’t pretend to be unpartisan about this. I am writing expressly with the intention of making this argument, but I cannot do this without first telling you what I think these values are.
    Growing up just north of you in Michigan, I tasted the politics of second-amendment gun ownership alongside struggling autoworkers’ unions, soccer-mom liberals next to evangelical conservatives and a mass of people who really just won’t care until it’s time to pull the lever, punch the card, complete the arrow or, in our technocratic times, click the mouse button. But even as a young man I could always spot a democrat in this crowd, you could tell because they were informed and passionate about staying that way. They were full of ideas that genuinely seemed geared at doing the most good at the least cost, but most importantly, they demonstrated a deep-seated belief that their own personal good is inextricably linked to the good of their neighbors, that each step we take forward we take holding the hand of a brother, a mother, a love, or a friend and that each of these people contribute in ineffable ways to our lives and to their friends’ lives and to their friends’ friends’ lives ad infinitum. In short, I believe that democrats are in possession of a profound social insight that undergirds our commitments to equality, justice, and peace.
    At the moment though, our party is at a crossroads. Two brilliant politicians are seeking our support for the presidential nomination: on the one hand a stunningly intelligent former First Lady and sitting senator from New York, on the other hand a bravura orator and freshman senator from Illinois. There are real differences between these candidates, let me be clear about that, but on the whole they share fairly common liberal views. This being the case, it would seem to be extremely difficult to choose between the two. It would seem to be, but it isn’t.
    One candidate stands in stark contrast to the other in terms of a demonstrated ability to govern, to organize and manage the massive bureaucracy that is the executive branch, dwarfs the other in terms of the breadth of their knowledge of the issues we face, and far surpasses the other in terms of political endurance in the face of an onslaught of nasty Republican attacks – not just in an election cycle, by for the past sixteen years. That candidate is Hillary Clinton.
    I could go on for pages about why Clinton’s health care plan will be more successful than Obama’s, or at least about why economists have come to that conclusion. I could tell you about all the pragmatic reasons Clinton will fare better against John McCain than Barack Obama in swing-states like Pennsylvania, Michigan, Ohio, and Florida, or about how Obama’s recent wins (well … he hasn’t won in any swing-state) have been bolstered by republican votes in democratic primaries, votes that will certainly not return to either Mr. Obama or Ms. Clinton in the general election. I could talk about the emptiness of Obama’s rhetoric, and the danger inherent in a dazzling, glossy veneer concealing political positions that Robert Samualson of the Washington Post described as “completely ordinary, highly partisan, not candid and mostly unresponsive to many pressing national problems.” (February 20, 2008) I could rave about the studied eloquence with which Hillary can speak about any issue from education to national security to the Gulf coast. I could implore you to think deeply about the benefits of a presidency – and here I am speaking of an institution, one that is highly resistant to change despite what Barack Obama promises but cannot deliver – that doesn’t repeat the mistakes of the past because the president herself has already been there and can see what challenges lie ahead of her well before they become too problematic to be dealt with. This, more than anything, is what I cannot let go of. I cannot be swayed by talk of change aimed at an institution whose very ideological architecture recoils at the idea, especially when the alternative to this is living that architecture, understanding its history, its supports and its failures, taking it in hand, surmounting it, and mobilizing it in the service of all of those goals that we democrats believe in.
    Nor can I be convinced by the head of something that borders upon a cult of personality arguing that the role of the federal government should be to inspire me, to fill me with hope. I already have hope in the future of my party and my country. As far as inspiration goes, I am inspired by good public and foreign policy, by a functional health care infrastructure, by the equal application of the rule of law, by the end of unnecessary wars, by a real commitment to the preservation of our environment, by any number of big solutions to big problems. JFK and Lyndon Johnson don’t inspire me. The Peace Corps and the War on Poverty do! The populism of Obama, the much-lauded oratory, the expression and pure pathos with which he speaks belie a troubling lack of concern with inventing innovative ways to translate that fleeting excitement – David Brooks has recently written about OCS (Obama come-down syndrome) – into lasting inspiration, the kind that comes from knowing that the woman living down the street won’t prolong a trip to the doctor because she has no insurance, from sending your children to a school where teachers can do more than drill kids in advance of Federally mandated tests, or, most crucially, from knowing that that fundamental democratic faith in the interconnectedness of all of our lives ended up as something more than a well focus-grouped campaign slogan, that it became part of our public policy, that it was legislated, that it is the law.
    This faith is precisely what is at stake in this primary election for the more it is bandied in a fleeting politics of spectacle, the politics of mass entertainment, as opposed to its embodiment in the kind of legislative politics that are Hillary Clinton’s forte, the more it loses a certain vitality, loses its necessity, its real and measurable impact on our lives, and becomes instead part and parcel of everyday electioneering and the culture industries … becomes a joke.
    Barack Obama may claim to stand for change, but the politics of insubstantial rhetoric that resulting in no real legislative accomplishment already is the status quo. What’s worse, it’s a dead-end that leads to less political participation, to a weaker Democratic party and to a weaker nation. Barack Obama may claim to stand for hope, but Hillary Clinton stands for the faithful.
    We ask that you please stand with us for real, substantial change on March 4, 2008!

  • One candidate stands in stark contrast to the other in terms of a demonstrated ability to govern, to organize and manage the massive bureaucracy that is the executive branch,

    My lord, the Hillary spammers are now pretending she was the president during the 90’s?? And the spammer before that tells us that Obama is only succeeding due to Rove’s help; which seems odd as I went to an Obama rally here in Austin the other night, and people really seemed just as fired up about Obama as I had been told. But I guess that was Rove’s doing too.

    This is simply absurd. How much longer do we really have to put up with this nonsense? And for as much as they try to pretend to be playing nice, it still comes down to the same old scare tactics and insults. They clearly think we’re all idiots. Thanks for letting us know.

  • Obama’s recent wins (well … he hasn’t won in any swing-state)

    Mark Penn? Is that you? I’m pretty sure Virginia, Missouri, Colorado, Washington, and Wisconsin all qualify as swing states for this election.

    They clearly think we’re all idiots. Thanks for letting us know.

    Agreed. For the record, Kevin, citing such true-blue progressives as David Brooks and Robert Samuelson isn’t exactly the best way to persuade an actual liberal.

    I know the Clinton backers have an image in your head that all Obama supporters are dewy-eyed eighteen-year-old college freshmen who have been sucked in by — to use Kevin’s demeaning version of the phrase — “a cult of personality” but we’re not. For the record, I’m in my late 30s.

    But if it’s a cult you’re looking for, go look in the mirror.

  • YOU MIGHT BE AN IDIOT:-)

    If you think Barack Obama with little or no experience would be better than Hillary Clinton with 35 years experience.

    You Might Be An Idiot!

    If you think that Obama with no experience can fix an economy on the verge of collapse better than Hillary Clinton. Who’s husband (Bill Clinton) led the greatest economic expansion, and prosperity in American history.

    You Might Be An Idiot!

    If you think that Obama with no experience fighting for universal health care can get it for you better than Hillary Clinton. Who anticipated this current health care crisis back in 1993, and fought a pitched battle against overwhelming odds to get universal health care for all the American people.

    You Might Be An Idiot!

    If you think that Obama with no experience can manage, and get us out of two wars better than Hillary Clinton. Who’s husband (Bill Clinton) went to war only when he was convinced that he absolutely had to. Then completed the mission in record time against a nuclear power. AND DID NOT LOSE THE LIFE OF A SINGLE AMERICAN SOLDIER. NOT ONE!

    You Might Be An Idiot!

    If you think that Obama with no experience saving the environment is better than Hillary Clinton. Who’s husband (Bill Clinton) left office with the greatest amount of environmental cleanup, and protections in American history.

    You Might Be An Idiot!

    If you think that Obama with little or no education experience is better than Hillary Clinton. Who’s husband (Bill Clinton) made higher education affordable for every American. And created higher job demand and starting salary’s than they had ever been before or since.

    You Might Be An Idiot!

    If you think that Obama with no experience will be better than Hillary Clinton who spent 8 years at the right hand of President Bill Clinton. Who is already on record as one of the greatest Presidents in American history.

    You Might Be An Idiot!

    If you think that you can change the way Washington works with pretty speeches from Obama, rather than with the experience, and political expertise of two master politicians ON YOUR SIDE like Hillary and Bill Clinton..

    Best regards

    jacksmith…

  • I don’t know about the rest of you, but Jack Smith just convinced me to vote for Bill Clinton this fall.

    Also, Jack, if you’re going to write a long post with a Jeff Foxworty-ish “You Might Be An Idiot” riff, you might first want to be sure you understand the difference between “who’s” and “whose” so you yourself don’t look like an idiot.

  • Haha Jack Smith,

    You so funny.

    We have a front runner whose campaign assumed a shock and awe media blitzkrieg to be done by Feb 5. What was worse, when that changed, she still stuck to her assumptions!

    Same said front runner assumed that no one was capable of defeating her.

    Didn’t invest in the actual dirty and unglamourous work of building an organization that would be needed in both the primary and the ELECTION, but instead spent it on really shitty expensive advice and luxury hotel rooms.

    No ability to manage resources (ie funding)

    No means of energizing her supporters aside from “She’s not a Repub” or “she’s a woman.”

    She was outplanned, outthought, outfought, outrun and outmanaged.

    And if you assume that the 90s will return because of the Clintons then I’m guessing you believe that Hils has built a time machine. BTW, the Clintons set up the legislation that enabled the mess. The Telco Act of 96 (reduced regs on news ownership and advertising) and also changed financial rules to reduce the restrictions to actually getting a mortgage (ie: good intentions gone very wrong.)

  • I’ve gotten to the point where I no longer watch the news when Clinton is mentioned. Seeing her take off her mask is frightening.

    I’m tired of being told that I’m a ‘cultist’ by Clinton’s on-line supporters, and I’m tired of Penn drawing on the Rovian playbook for tactics. Is it so inconceivable that I might have actually studied their respective positions and drawn my own conclusions? Or that I regard Obama as the more electable candidate?

    What’s ‘cultish’ is willingly staying aboard a sinking ship. There’s nothing noble in that. She needs to concede after the 4th for the good of the party.

  • GENERALISSIMA CLINTON

    If Hillary has foreign policy (or any other relevant) experience that would make her ready on day one it must reside in the realm of the theoretical. As far as the practical application of this knowledge she has failed to transfer it to ‘waging war’ against her opponent. Skills transfer but you must possess them in order to make that happen. She obviously was unaware of the primary rule war which suggests one should not underestimate the ‘enemy’. She prepared as though she were attacking Grenada and found out she was engaging the likes of the old Soviet Union. She was so arrogant about her successful strategy that when it failed she had no back up plan. Clearly, she has been out maneuvered by the ‘inexperienced’ Barack Obama and her forces are now in retreat. If this were actually war instead of its somewhat lesser violent form, politics, the end result of her campaign would have us all speaking Russian.

  • dear jacksmith:

    Your entry should have begun with ‘once upon a time”

    “(Bill Clinton) led the greatest economic expansion, and prosperity in American history.”

    If president’s could control the economy why wouldn’t they? the truth is they can not and I do not give credit to Bill Clinton for a booming economy any more than I blame Herbert Hoover for the dismal economy that spawned the depression.

    “If you think that Obama with no experience fighting for universal health care can get it for you better than Hillary Clinton.”

    this is the third time Hillary is promising the above and I laud your loyalty in still believing her.

    “Hillary Clinton with 35 years experience.”

    experience doing what? Hillary’s experience lies in lying

    if you care about researching Senators Obama and Clinton’s records you can sign in to the library of congress web site and attempt to separate the myths from the facts.
    but consider this:

    Copy Cat Clinton Accuses Obama of Plagiarism

    For a woman who has never been accused of creativity or possessed an original thought this statement is truly ludicrous. Not only has she ‘cut and pasted’* dialogue and ideas SHE HAS BASED HER POLITICAL LIFE AND CANDIDACY ON THE EXPERIENCE OF ANOTHER. No candidate for president has ever entered the race with more advantages and taken less advantage of them. The mistakes made under her command has morphed the Clinton machine into the Keystone Kops. yet in spite of all this duplicity, indecisiveness, and disingeniousness she would still be the nominee if she were running against anyone but Barack Obama. Yet, what real separates Clinton and Obama is that while he is well educated and brilliant and credible; Hillary is merely well educated. I have seen bill Clinton in action and believe me Hillary is no bill Clinton

    * who xeroxes in this centurybeside Hillary’s overpriced speechwriters?

  • Out with the old, in with the new. Changing the expiration date on a bottle of sour milk won’t make it taste any better! The tactics of the Clinton campaign reek with the stench of sour milk and hot garbage in the summertime. Let the fresh winds of political change blow.
    Obama 08 Change that we can smell.

  • Will some journalist please ask the candidate -What on earth was Obama thinking when he chose Zbigniew Brzezinski (ZB ) as one of his foreign policy advisors??? http://www.nysun.com/article/71123

    ZB was one of main people responsible for convincing the US govt to arm the mujaheddin.

    Zbigniew Brzezinski (ZB) endorsed Obama for presidentt. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con
    tent/article/2007/08/24/AR2007082402127.html
    Lastyear,(ZB) was interviewed in http://www.counterpunch.org/brzezinski.html

    During the 1960’s and 1970’s he (ZB) was so focused on fighting the evil Russian empire that he completely ignored the existence of radical Islamic fundamentalism. He gave poor advice to President Carter. The ramifications of his (ZB)being so blind-sided helped to nurture the evolution and expansion of Osama Bin Ladin’s (and others) terrorist groups. In 1998, Brzezinski was interviewed by the French newspaper Nouvel Observateur on the topic of Afghanistan.
    http://www.counterpunch.org/brzezinski.html

  • Comments are closed.