The Democratic debate — the fallout

April 17, 2008

At this point, it’s probably safe to say the most memorable aspect of the Democratic debate in Philadelphia was the response it garnered.

Today, for example, Barack Obama seemed to take great pleasure in mocking what transpired last night.

MoveOn.org is on the case as well.

Apparently, it’s enough to make George Stephanopoulos feel like a candidate for a change.

Stephanopoulos spoke with Greg Sargent this afternoon, and did his best to defend what transpired.

In an interview with me moments ago, Stephanopoulos strongly defended his handling of the debate. He dismissed criticism that it had focused too heavily on “gotcha” questions, arguing that they had gone to the heart of the “electability” that, he said, is forefront in the minds of voters evaluating the two Dems. “Overall, the questions were tough, fair, relevant, and appropriate,” Stephanopoulos argued. […]

Asked why we should presume that electability, rather than issues, was the dominant concern of many Dems right now, Stephanopoulos argued that it was a frequent topic of discussion on the campaign trail.

“People also take into account…how candidates handle controversy,” he said. “That’s what campaigns are about, as well.”

I’ve heard that a few times today from people defending the debate — the first 45 minutes of the debate served an important purpose, because the public wanted to hear more about the controversies than the issues.

But we know this isn’t true, precisely because the public has already said so. dnA explained:

Keep in mind those aren’t just “pressing” issues, in the sense that they are affecting all of our lives…those are the issue the voters have identified as important to them, according to Gallup’s poll in March, the top four issues being the Economy, Iraq, healthcare, and fuel prices. Soon to be joined by food prices, I’m sure.

It’s not like public priorities are some kind of mystery. ABC News conducts polls on it all the time. Presumably, Stephanopoulos and Charlie Gibson have read the results on the air.

Where do you suppose flag pins rank on the list of public concerns?

You can call and ask for Charlie and George’s voicemail
I did and told exactly how despicable and trashy what they passed of as journalism last night. Then I did the same with the president of ABC news. his name is DAVID WESTIN. call the following number. Be polite and tell them that you will no longer patronize their sponsors until they apologize and fire Charlie and George

212-456-7777

If they try and transfer you to some bullshit comments line, tell them no way. Call back. It took me 6-7 time to get through to them but I did. Enough is Enough

  • George Stephanapolous is an idiot. He only has a job on tv because he helped cover for Bill Clinton in the 90s.

  • I agree with The Commander Guy — I didn’t get the impression that either Gibson or Stephamidget were somehow biased toward one candidate or the other.

    I just got the impression they were doing what pundits always do: Ask idiotic questions that make for a good gotchya moment, and cover issues they have already deemed important, rather than what 90% of Americans think are important.

    Once again, those who claim to speak for the “average American” have no freakin’ clue what the average American really cares about or wants.

  • I think some people need to grow up. They revel in this when NBC does it to Clinton. But now that it happens to their candidate, they’re shocked, shocked to find out that gambling is going on at Rick’s Cafe in Casablanca.

  • What’s worse, as I saw noted in something Glenn Greenwald quoted, this debate was supposed to be about serious constitutional issues, at least that’s what it was advertised as.

  • Man oh man.

    It’s a good thing I didn’t watch the quote-unquote “debate”. That would have been 90 minutes I would have lost forever(or 2 hours with commercials? dunno)

    So when are we going to have a debate? You know, a discussion about a public question in an assembly involving opposing viewpoints. I really don’t believe the malarky about how Clinton and Obama’s positions are the same on many issues, so they need to stage some kind of controversy between the two to fill up air time. I guess us folks just can’t understand nuance on the hot topics of our day.

    I sure am glad that we have Gibson and Stephanopolous taking their cues now from their right wing journalistic brethren, because that frees up a lot more of my time. For instance, after work today, I know for ABSOLUTE certain that I don’t need to watch the ABC world news now. I just have to wait an extra half hour so that I can watch the BBC World News, which if you people aren’t watching, you are not receiving “world” news(at least as far as free broadcasting goes. That’s right, there are still people who don’t have cable or satellite)

  • I think some people need to grow up. They revel in this when NBC does it to Clinton.

    Bullshit. Nobody here revels in media stupidity, no matter who it’s aimed at. Show me where someone her said “Hooray NBC – way to go after Hillary!” I won’t hold my breath while you look…

    I’m not upset that the debate last night was hard on Obama. I’m upset that the debate last night was about name calling and finger pointing, not policy ideas or solutions to national problems.

  • I liked Obama’s speech about the debate. He has a sense of humour and a sense of reality. He did a little “concern trolling” too which was hilarious.

    Hey since Obama wears a flag pin now, Obama’s Pin Laden.

  • Donald

    What the hell are you talking about? Those picayune questions were addressed to both candidates, and Hillary didn’t look any happier about them than Barack did. How could anybody answer brilliantly to those first questions? It was a travesty of a debate.

  • What’s worse, as I saw noted in something Glenn Greenwald quoted, this debate was supposed to be about serious constitutional issues, at least that’s what it was advertised as.

    Yep. And given the recent trampling of the 4th and 8th Amendments — in the FISA insanity and the revelation that the White House signed off on torture at the highest levels — there was plenty to discuss.

    But nope. We had more pressing issues — Hillary’s decade-old Bosnia memories and Obama’s second-cousin twice-removed’s college roommate’s blog posting.

  • Bollocks, Donald. The moderators were every bit as out of line in basically asking Clinton “are you a liar” as they were in asking Obama to quantify Wright’s patriotism. You can see this as an “Obama supporters” issue, but that just reflects on your own ability to understand what people are actually saying.

    The debate was a travesty, and anyone who really believes that lapel pins are more important than immigration or environmental policy — both of which were entirely omitted — has real problems with perspective.

  • this debate was supposed to be about serious constitutional issues

    Didn’t the moderators quote from the constitution a couple of times?

    Just to quote from the Constitution again, ‘In every case,’ Article Two, Section One, ‘after the choice of the president, the person having the greatest number of votes of the electors shall be the vice president.’”

    Of course, those parts were defunct due to the 12th amendment…maybe they were trying to propose we repeal the 12th amendment?

  • ABC News conducts polls on it all the time. Presumably, Stephanopoulos and Charlie Gibson have read the results on the air.

    You don’t think they pay attention to polls, do you? They are newsmen of conviction and they know what’s important.

  • Imagine Gibson asking McCain if he wet-started his jet on the Forrestal, or why he was whisked off the ship immediately afterward. Can’t imagine it? Neither can anyone else. Too busy praising him about being a hero for sitting in captivity. That’s where the bias is, and was, last night.

  • I noticed that Hillary didn’t get asked why she wasn’t wearing a flag pin and that neither George nor Charlie were wearing ones either.

    Gibson was behaving as if he were Doug Neidermeyer in Animal House:
    “WHERE IS YOUR FLAG PIN ?”

  • beep52

    What else could we expect with Sean Hannity feeding Charlie Gibson “questions”? What the hell was Hannity doing there anyway? He can stay in his own cage at Fox and comment on the responses after watching, just like everybody else. Unless, of course, Hillary requested that he be there and supply some of the Fox-listener questions/”concerns” for Barack. Isn’t she friendly with those guys?

  • Controversies eh

    Here is a list of McCain controversies I am sure George will ask him about on Sunday

    1. Improper relationship a female lobbyist
    2. Al Qaeda = Shia gaffe (4 times and counting)
    3. Campaign finance issues – accepting public funds to get on ballots and then breaking FEC spending limits
    4. Health issues
    5. Voting against MLK holiday multiple times
    6. Beating up Rick Renzi
    7. Calling wife c**t

    If George asks him one of those things I will be impressed. Short of a Hannity request I doubt any of those issues will be brought up.

  • Dale @ 9 is right of course.
    Barack’s sense of humor was absolutely marvelous. Political humor is a hard and fine line to trod. Looks like the young fella has got a knack for that too… Which is pretty damn unbelievable when you consider all his other talents.

    Two more things:

    1) I will be emailing and calling ABC along with the rest of you.
    I won’t have my candidate’s patriotism attacked. You want to do that with a 527? Fine.
    But a major news organization questioning this fine young man’s devotion to America? Despite a LIFETIME of evidence to the contrary? That’s fucking war.

    I am fired up and ready to boycott.

    2) If I was George Stephanopoulos I get some security.
    I suspect there are quite a few people out there more than eager to flatten him with hard left to the nose. And then sneer down at him: Does your nose love your country as much as my fist?

    Quite frankly… he has earned to be knocked on his moppet ass. Hard.

  • I was surprised that Obama agreed to a “debate” “moderated” by those two bozos. He needs better staff support, that’s all I can say. Hopefully, he’ll clean this up by January 20.

  • Hooray for David Brooks of the New York Times! Finally, Brooks has come around to this red skinned woman’s tough traditional American Indian point of view. I do enjoy watching Brooks and Shields on PBS. Those two are quite the pair to draw to.

    I much enjoyed last night’s debate between Obama and Clinton. I understand many sissified Americans are upset, as is expected. I am not sissified nor upset. This debate last night provided America a chance to observe the behaviors of both Obama and Clinton when confronted with surprise questions and confronted with tough questions. These are a type of questions which will be foremost during our general presidential election. Be sure, the republican party will raise all these issues and much more. Both Obama and Clinton must be prepared to tackle seemingly silly personal topics. Any weakness displayed in dealing with these types of questions will be votes lost.

    My personal take is Obama stuttered, stammered and stumbled over his words being taken by surprise. Obama was not prepared, not ready for unexpected topics.

    Clinton, such a wonderful performance, such wonderful dodging of personal issues! Clinton did not hesitate, she was articulate, assertive and did not miss a beat. Clinton made a point to diplomatically chastise Stephanopoulos. Clinton was clearly prepared for anything.

    This debate was a critical display of how each candidate, Obama and Clinton, will react and will conduct themselves when subjected to surprising and stressful issues.

    Obama fell apart. Clinton proved herself cold, calculating and cutthroat. Clinton is no sissy!

    My congratulations to ABC news for daring to broach issues which have sissified Americans tugging at their hair while anxiously screaming, “This is not fair!”

    All is fair in love and rock & roll.

    Job well done ABC, my feather is off to you!

    Okpulot Taha
    Choctaw Nation

  • “Where do you suppose flag pins rank on the list of public concerns?”

    I want to know why Georgie and Charlie didn’t ask Hillary why she doesn’t wear a flag lapel pin.

    I want to know why Georgie and Charlie didn’t ask each other why neither of them weara a flag lapel pin.

    I want to know why no one seems to know U.S. Flag Code (4 US Code 1)

    (Sec. 8, j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

  • I’m not upset as I always anticipate bad moderation. I get pleased when it isn’t. Boycott? C’mon. The pundits do what they’re told and are limited in their knowledge of history and middle class concerns.

    As a progressive, I’m committed not to make fun of the mentally handicapped, nor to try and get them admonished or fired.

    I also don’t buy most of the critiques I’ve heard about candidate performance. Obama didn’t strike me as tired. I thought he simply decided “look, I’m not going to get dragged into an insult match. I’ll show that I can bite back if you keep insisting, but otherwise, if you folks keep lowering the discourse to a mudwrestle, I’m going to roll my eyes, look annoyed and stick to who I am and how I intend to conduct my campaign.”

    Clinton simply looked rehearsed and stagemanaged, properly cheerful, ready for certain issues (small-town attitudes, Iraq), and did just fine. Did either gain from the ‘debate’?

    No, and neither did we.

  • 10 Debate Questions John McCain Will Never Be Asked:
    1. Do you agree with Pastor John Hagee that war with Iran is the fulfillment of biblical prophecy?
    2. Doesn’t your legendary temper make you too dangerous to be trusted with the presidency of the United States?
    3. Doesn’t your confusion regarding basic facts about the war in Iraq, including repeatedly citing a nonexistent Al Qaeda-Iran alliance, make you unfit for command?
    4. Given your past adultery, should Americans consider you a moral exemplar of family values?
    5. Doesn’t your flip-flop on Jerry Falwell being an “agent of intolerance” show your opportunistic pandering to the religious right?
    6. Given your wealth and privileged upbringing, aren’t you – and not Barack Obama – the elitist?
    7. What is your religion, really? And has the answer in the past changed as the South Carolina primary approached?
    8. Didn’t President Bush betray you with his signing statement on the Detainee Treatment Act? You claim to be against torture, but aren’t you a hypocrite for voting “no” on the Senate waterboaring ban?
    9. Why did you flip-flop on the Bush tax cuts you twice opposed? Why do you now support making them permanent for the wealthiest Americans who need them least?
    10. With the economy tanking, shouldn’t Americans be concerned over your past statements that “the issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should?”

    For the details and background on each, see:
    “10 Debate Questions John McCain Will Never Be Asked.”

  • I MISSED “THE DEBATE???” ON PURPOSE. THE WORLD HAS HEARD ENOUGH FROM THE LIAR AND HER HUSBAND. THE ONE WHO SHE REFERRED TO AS MAKING “ELITE…” REMARKS WILL END-UP THE WINNER. HILLARY AND THOSE SURROUNDING HER WILL ALWAYS REFER TO ANYONE TELLING THE TRUTH, AS PART OF THE SO CALLED “ELITE CROWD”, MAINLY BECAUSE IN HER CAMP THE TRUTH IS NOT NECESSARY, AND ACTUALLY A HINDERANCE TO PROPER POLITCAL CAMPAIGNING.

    I ADMIT THAT SHE IS MORE EXPERIENCED ABOUT THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF THE U.S. GOVERNMENT…BUT THE EXPERIENCE SHE HAS IS ALL INVOLVED WITH MAKING AN “ART FORM” OUT OF “HOW TO LIE, CHEAT AND STEAL IN THE WHITE HOUSE”. SHE AND BILL WORKED ON THAT FOR YEARS AND YEARS.

    THE COUNTRY NEEDED CHANGE IN 1964, AND I VOTED FOR BARRY. NOW THERE IS A NEW “BARRY” TO VOTE FOR, AND FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY VOTING LIFE, I SHALL VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT. “GIVE ‘EM HELL HARRY”, WAS THE ONLY OTHER DEMOCRAT THAT GARNERED MY VOTE. 4/17/08.
    OLIVER.

  • TO BETTER EXPLAIN MY VOTING COMMENTS ABOVE, HARRY TRUMAN AND BARACK OBAMA WILL BE THE ONLY DEMOCRATS I’VE EVER VOTED FOR.

    WHEN BARRY GOLDWATER LOST IN 1964, I STOPPED VOTING. THIS WILL BE MY FIRST VOTE CAST IN 44 YEARS. SORRY MCCAIN, AND I LIVE IN ARIZONA, TOO. OLIVER 4/17/08

  • George S was SHAMEFUL in how he insulted ALL of America by generating meaningless controversy for temporary ratings blip for all the wrong reasons. ABC should immediately fire him. Charlie G should be fired for incompetence.

    THEY insulted ALL of AMERICA.

  • The sixth post whining about the debate.
    Oh how the worshipers scream and cry when the clay feet of their false god is exposed.
    But hey they post here so they once again feed their delusions in the echo chamber just like the cult they are.
    Keep on thinking that Obama won’t be exposed as the inexperienced and bad candidate that he is. Nominate him and sit back and watch his chickens come home to roost. It will be the GOP who will be partying in November.

  • Oh how the worshipers scream and cry when the clay feet of their false god is exposed.

    Who let the twelve-year-old aspiring author in here?

    Whatever. Thanks for inspiring me to donate $50 more to Obama.

  • Delilah

    The debate was lame. Everybody knows this.

    So ABC did a National Enquirer style debate and it pissed people off. People bitch and moan and gripe about B.S. And there was plenty of B.S. last night.

    Just deal with it babes.

  • Whenever Hillary complains about how the media is unfair to her is that “whining” too? When her supporters complain about her being treated unfairly by the MSM doesn’t that make them “worshippers” of a false god as well?

    I’m not sure how Clinton’s supporters rationalize her latest 54% DISAPPROVAL rating– her approval numbers sink as her disapproval ratings rise. Please explain to me how she could win in November? It appears that the more she talks, the more people see her, the less they like or trust her. Sad but true.

  • Senator Obama is a Constitutional lawyer and has taught Constitutional law for 10 years. He looked disgusted with the questions and justifiably so. He should have walked off the stage. Shouldn’t somebody have asked the candidates how they would try to salvage our world image? What am I missing here when one of the questions had to do with wearing a flag pin to prove patriotism? I think that people are on to how the meida works, finally. This was not a debate and we have a perfect right to call ABC on their awful performance.

  • Well, I don’t watch any tv that is hosted by Stephanopolis or Charlie, it’s not worth the strain on my body what with the blood pressure and all. Then I missed all the discussion today because, well, there’s that working to try and pay for gas and all. But I came home and watched the clips and read this blog.

    delilah, has me laughing my ass off with her “clay feet of false gods” comment. The trademark Republican hyper seriousness is almost too much after more than seven years of it. Anyone who could listen to stuff like “they’ll follow us home”, “fight them over there”, “muslims are intent on taking over America”, “OMG, no flag pin!!!” and worst of all, “the war in Iraq is making America safer”, and then see “clay feet” in this “debate”. It’s hilarious. I’ll be partying in November for sure, whether it’s President Clinton or President Obama is the only undecided factor. I’ll be sure and drink one for you, deliliah!

    Also to Oliver James, better late than never, please turn off the caps lock and try to seem educated when you’re trying to educate us young folks.

  • I guess when you have a slim record of accomplishments then the discussion naturally gravitates towards the questions asked last night.
    You may think that many of us out here don’t wish to know more about Obama’s church or his pastor. Some of us have a hard time reconciling what he has said. Personally I believe he is lying. He either heard what was said by Wright long before it became the story last month or he doesn’t attend the church as often as he says.
    Could we get someone else besides Hillary or Obama? I don’t see either of them rising above their negatives.

  • Obama is “Mr. Vague”. I have never heard a straight answer from this man.
    I loved it when he said “He didn’t ever attack Clinton”. Right! You have allowed your campaign to do this. Can he even control his campaign, wife, Rev. Wright? If you feel he has good leadership to hire people to do a good job, then you are sadly mistaken. Obama will throw everyone under the bus except himself.

  • I am tired of this game of “Six degrees of Political Separation”, I heard HC say she would respond to attack on ANY friend of the US by Iran as act of war. This from a woman who said also that the as Pres. she would not listen to the general on the ground in Iraq. She is staring to sound like Bush.

  • lib4 said:
    Here is a list of McCain controversies I am sure George will ask him about on Sunday…
    (snip)
    If George asks him one of those things I will be impressed. Short of a Hannity request I doubt any of those issues will be brought up.

    It won’t happen. Giving the kind of truly first-class blowjob lip service that the media has been giving McCain for years requires the mouth and both hands. So there’s no way anyone in the corporate-controlled media are going to ask McCain tough questions — no way to speak and no way to type.

  • to #38: Are “White people” going to constantly ask “I wonder if Obama likes me?” as part of this discussion of about Rev. Wright. What do you think Obama is going to do to you?

  • i bliv that Obama can make a gud world leader coz of his ability to take responsibility for what he say and does.obama we wish you well in you journey 2 bridge the world and make enermies to be neighbors.

  • I guess when you have a slim record of accomplishments then the discussion naturally gravitates towards the questions asked last night.

    What? That makes no sense.

    Leaving aside the glaring fact that Obama has as strong a record of accomplishments as Hillary — Obama-Coburn, Obama-Lugar, etc. — your premise is just plain wrong.

    If he didn’t have accomplishments and needed to duck the policy issues, why would people who support him be mad that he didn’t get more policy questions? If anything, they’d like the chance to focus on this piddly crap.

  • Oh, delilah and joanie are just some of Nell’s sock puppets. I hope to hell this person is a volunteer, because I’d hate to think Clinton’s empty campaign coffers are paying for this poor a quality of trolling. Of course, they probably won’t pay the bill, so there’s that.

  • I won’t wear a flag pin. I think it ranks right up there with public prayer. I thinkle George, Charlie & Hillary showed the American what smug, white American elitism really is. Bised you bet. They didn’t ask about Bill’s pardon of Weathermen folks. They did’t kill anyone except themselves, another Hillary exageration. They also didn’t ask about the ” Screw em Bill” remark at Camp David. Fair & balanced? No Way. This was a three ring circus using Obama as the trick pony. All it did was reinforce my determination to never ever vote for Hillary.

  • George & Charlie, like many debate mods before them, refuse to ask the candidates about their past accomplishments and how they’d apply that experience to issues they’d face as President.

    Meanwhile, a-holes on this forum claim Obama has no experience or accomplishments.

    Yeah, that’s probably just a coincidence.

    You know, in the effort it takes people to type anti-Obama (or even anti-Clinton) slurs, they COULD visit the candidates’ web sites and find out what they’ve done. Sure they might be embellishing their resumes & you can choose to investigate further, but at least, then, your opinion comes from an educated place…

    of course, this IS America; who wants educated opinions?

  • I suspect that the members of the public who might actually be interested in such drivel were also the least likely to watch the debates. That debate was truly embarrassing!

  • Yeah, the truly open-minded progressives…my “friends” in the Democratic Party. It just sends shivers up my leg that these (ahem) people might actually be in charge of the world. And hey! How about that classy BIG O? Flipping off Hillary Clinton at a NC event. Yeah. Real class. Really uplifting. Really hopeful. Really unifying. That was just completely immature – just like most of Obama’s followers in the blogosphere. How the hell do you folks live with yourselves trashing Democrats this way? And this isn’t even the WORST of the nastiness.

    The Next Generation of Leaders

    Oh how the worshipers scream and cry when the clay feet of their false god is exposed.

    Who let the twelve-year-old aspiring author in here?

    Whatever. Thanks for inspiring me to donate $50 more to Obama.

    ———

    Whenever Hillary complains about how the media is unfair to her is that “whining” too? When her supporters complain about her being treated unfairly by the MSM doesn’t that make them “worshippers” of a false god as well?

    I’m not sure how Clinton’s supporters rationalize her latest 54% DISAPPROVAL rating– her approval numbers sink as her disapproval ratings rise. Please explain to me how she could win in November? It appears that the more she talks, the more people see her, the less they like or trust her. Sad but true.

    ———-

    I am tired of this game of “Six degrees of Political Separation”, I heard HC say she would respond to attack on ANY friend of the US by Iran as act of war. This from a woman who said also that the as Pres. she would not listen to the general on the ground in Iraq. She is staring to sound like Bush.

    ———-

    to #38: Are “White people” going to constantly ask “I wonder if Obama likes me?” as part of this discussion of about Rev. Wright. What do you think Obama is going to do to you?

    ———-

    Oh, delilah and joanie are just some of Nell’s sock puppets. I hope to hell this person is a volunteer, because I’d hate to think Clinton’s empty campaign coffers are paying for this poor a quality of trolling. Of course, they probably won’t pay the bill, so there’s that.

    ———-

    I won’t wear a flag pin. I think it ranks right up there with public prayer. I thinkle George, Charlie & Hillary showed the American what smug, white American elitism really is. Bised you bet. They didn’t ask about Bill’s pardon of Weathermen folks. They did’t kill anyone except themselves, another Hillary exageration. They also didn’t ask about the ” Screw em Bill” remark at Camp David. Fair & balanced? No Way. This was a three ring circus using Obama as the trick pony. All it did was reinforce my determination to never ever vote for Hillary.

    ———-

    Meanwhile, a-holes on this forum claim Obama has no experience or accomplishments.

    Yeah, that’s probably just a coincidence.

  • The primary issue here is honesty and Clinton has been shown to be terrible dishonest. This country is in bad shape and ABC won’t bother to discuss the Bush Administrations acts of violation the Geneva Convention – yet they resort to stupid things like flags pins. The stupid President of the US, George W. Bush doesn’t bother to wear a flag pin but he’s still in good standing with ABC.
    All I have left to say is ABC? Shame on you

    • Comments are closed.