The dreaded septuagenarian issue

April 11, 2008

Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean hosted a press briefing yesterday to go over some new polling data from 17 swing states, and mentioned that the party would probably not go after John McCain’s age as a campaign issue.

Noting that it’s the kind of personal tactic Republicans would be far more comfortable with, Dean said, “I doubt we will bring it up in the election. He added, “There is somewhat of a higher ethical bar on what we do. We don’t have any Lee Atwaters or Karl Roves on our side.”

That said, the opportunity is certainly there.

Dean added … that in recent DNC-sponsored focus groups designed to gauge voter opinions about McCain, participants regularly brought up the Arizona Senator’s age as a potential point of concern.

Those worries fell into two main categories, Dean said. The first was a “health concern”; the second was the idea that McCain has “very old fashioned” opinions on a variety of topics. As evidence, Dean cited a focus group of conservative women in Charleston, West Virginia. When the Democratic organizers of the group told participants that McCain opposed insurance coverage for birth control pills and supported abstinence-only education in schools, they reportedly said “this guy is out of step with what modern views are.”

A Republican National Committee spokesperson insisted that age is not a concern because voters associate McCain with “judgment, character, vision and leadership.”

That’s debatable, of course, but there’s ample evidence that if they also associate McCain with 72 candles on a birthday cake, it may be a real problem for the Republican campaign.

Following up on an item from a couple of weeks ago, no one seems to want to “go there” when it comes to McCain’s age, but voters seem concerned.

* The latest NBC/WSJ poll (pdf) asked respondents if they think Americans are prepared to elect an otherwise qualified candidate, who happens to be have certain characteristics. 72% of Americans, for example, said the country is prepared to elect an African-American president, and 71% said we’re also ready for a woman president. But when asked about a candidate over the age of 70, the number dropped to 61%.

* Also last month, a WaPo/ABC poll found that more than one in four voters (27%) said McCain’s age would make them “less enthusiastic” to support him.

* A CBS/NYT poll from February asked Americans what the best age is for a president. A majority (55%) preferred someone in their 50s, while a president in his or her 40s was second (with 26%). How many preferred someone in their 70s? Less than one percent.

* Way back in February 2007, a WaPo/ABC poll asked Americans: “I’m going to read a few attributes that might be found in a candidate for president. Please tell me if each would make you more likely to vote for that candidate for president, or less likely to vote for that candidate, or if it wouldn’t matter.” No specific candidate names were mentioned. When it came to attributes like race, gender, religion, and marital status, poll respondents generally didn’t care at all. When the poll mentioned a 72-year-old candidate, 58% said they would be “less likely” to vote for such a candidate — more than the totals for a woman, African American, and/or Mormon combined.

* Around the same time, a USAT/Gallup showed that 42% of voters said they wouldn’t support an otherwise qualified 72-year-old candidate.

Dean went out of his way yesterday to suggest Dems aren’t going to exploit the age issue, and I suspect he’s right. Unless the general-election race got very ugly, I’d be surprised if the DNC and/or the Democratic nominee emphasized McCain’s personal weakness.

That said, the media may not be talking about the issue, but voters care, and it may be this year’s sleeper issue.

voters associate McCain with “judgment, character, vision and leadership.”

While I would take any statement by a group known to be lying liars with a grain of salt – to the degree that any Americans believe this about mclaim, it is because the MSM diligently “catapults the propaganda” from this criminal cabal.

Funny, however, when this same band of thugs was fraudulently hoisting an AWOL alcoholic/cocaine-addict on us and making him a “war pResident”, these people did not say nice things about mclaim at all.

  • This is gonna come up. McCain turns 72 on Katrina Day. Where we will go back in time to revisit just where GWB and McCain were and what doing when New Orleans Drowned.

    Also, everytime McCain’s VP is mentioned, it’ll be noted how much younger he is the McCain and why it is so important for this potential VP not to be a dan quayle type, but rather to be “experienced.”

  • I would be careful with this. Age might be a concern if there were any reason to believe that McCain is not physically up to the demands of being president or has health issues that could put his ability to serve a full term in jeopardy, but there doesn’t seem to be any basis for making those assertions– he’s a pretty young 72. And in the absence of any good-faith basis for tying his age to his ability to perform the duties of the office, going after him on this is just going to alienate a lot of senior citizens, which the Democrats really don’t want to do.

  • This is not an issue that needs to be strongly advertised anyway. Most voters are eventually going to learn that McCain is 72 – from news reports, rumors, whatever. That’s all they need to know. It’s not something like the Wright scandal or Iraq that’s subtle or debatable or whatever. Either you’re OK with a 72-year-old president or you’re not.

  • A Republican National Committee spokesperson insisted that age is not a concern because voters associate McCain with “judgment, character, vision and leadership.”

    The fact that John McCan’t has made a Judgement since 1968 and when it comes to Vision he’s so (figuratively) near-sighted he can’t see beyond next September.

    As for ‘Character’, just mention the details of his divorce from his first (very loyal) wife.

    And what is the form of his ‘Leadership’ if he can’t lead us OUT of Iraq but only INTO Iran.

    We want NONE of it.

  • I hope the Democrats don’t “formally” use McCain’s age against hiim, though I personally think he’s entering the senile stage of life. He’s made too many misstatements and wild switches in thinking for it to be intentional. There are too many people his age who are alert and have all their wits about them who wouldn’t appreciate seeing “ageism” in the campaign.

    There’s plenty to really tear him apart on without sinking to making ageist accusations. Nobody should hold back on their criticisms of him either. I think he shows up as wacko.

  • Unless the general-election race got very ugly, I’d be surprised if the DNC and/or the Democratic nominee emphasized McCain’s personal weakness.

    Unless water turns out to be VERY wet, we won’t need to swim in it. Unless that howling blizzard turns out to be VERY cold, we won’t need a coat in it.

    Imagine the ugliest possible election we could possibly have. It’ll be worse than that.

  • I think the younger voters will be motivated more by McCain’s insane ideas, we won’t need to get into the age issue. That said, it’s pretty hard to describe McCain’s persona without using adjectives like “cranky old coot”. And if voters need to be reminded that McCain would be 80 at the end of his second term (shudder) then so be it.

    The guy is just like a lot of other old men, he has a raft of things stuck in his head that are demonstrably wrong, and if confronted or questioned he shows you how many other dumb ideas he clings to. All we need to do is drag these insane ideas out of him for public display, and work the refs until they actually do their job and show the people the real McCain instead of the action hero cardboard cutout they were issued at the BBQ party.

  • Age shouldn’t be one of the least important resons to vote for or against someone. There is a party platform or at least worldview that will dictate the next four years, regardless of the actual person in the Oval Office. In fact, with Reps it really doesn’t even matter whether McCain remembers his ever-so-patriotic principles. That said, if his wrong statements, lack of innovation, flip-flopping, temper tantrums, and focus on his childhood lead people to the conclusion that age is a factor, that’s OK. At least it blunts the Reps’ overall theme that “conservatism” works and they just need to get someone who is capable.

  • “Dean went out of his way yesterday to suggest Dems aren’t going to exploit the age issue” -CB

    Excuse me Mr Dean, if you aren’t going to exploit it then why go out of your way to mention it ??

    Why not ?? I personally don’t want a guy near the football that is living past his expectancy. I think they should be linking his age to every reversal and every ‘mis-spoken’ word. The guy is old and this ‘senior moment’ non-sense needs to be at the very least, explored thoroughly.

  • Imagine the ugliest possible election we could possibly have. It’ll be worse than that

    And Obama seems uniquely able to take that kind of shit and turn it into opportunity. If this election is about change, then it’ll actually help us (maybe) if the Republicans roll out their dirtiest BS tactics. I think they actually understand that dynamic, and with McCain’s own advisers taking a pass on attacking Obama, we might be pleasantly pleased with the nature of the campaign. Sure, the wingnuts will be out with their BS, but they’ll make McCain look bad, especially among the moderates who are looking for a reason to go Dem anyway (which is a lot of them).

  • It is going to be messy. And I’m continually disappointed when the Dems take the proverbial “high road”– that’s how we lose. Politics is a dirty game, and we NEED a Lee Atwater/Karl Rove type on our side. We know the GOP is going to slime us, so we had better be ready to slime them first.

    With that being said, the age issue is something of a tightrope– it’ll be tough to use it as evidence of McCain’s infirmity while simultaneously not alienating senior citizens from voting Democratic. But there are ways of doing that, and Obama has already seized on some of them– e.g. referring to McCain’s “half-century of service.” Voters need to be subtly reminded of McCain’s age at every turn, and we can turn this issue into one that works for us.

  • I don’t think the DNC ought to feature Atwater- or Rove-type attacks of any kind, but it seems to me that age is an obvious factor in considering any candidate. It almost seems “ageist” to ignore it. Rather like not mentioning Uncle Zippy’s tweaky eye. It’s one of the few characteristics of a president actually specified in the Constitution (age 35). The NY Times columnist James Reston believed that younger presidents could more readily handle the stresses of the job: “It is not responsible in this violent age to pick candidates for the presidency from men in their 60s.” Most of us expect people to retire by age 65. This isn’t discrimination; it’s common sense, i.e, straight talk.

  • It strikes me that what Dean is doing is similar to a Roman rhetorical technique called praeteritio – you mention something by saying that you’re not going to mention it. That way you don’t dwell on it, and even say that mentioning such a thing is not the kind of tactic that you would use. But the idea gets communicated. [/Latin geek]

  • he’s a pretty young 72

    Think so? He seems like an incredibly old 72 to me. I know lots of people in their upper 70s and 80s who make the guy look like a crotchety, out-of-touch old fool. They think so, too–one semi-joked to me last night that McCain’s “way too old school” for him. The guy making the half-joke is 86.

  • Voters need to be subtly reminded of McCain’s age at every turn, and we can turn this issue into one that works for us.

    I think our simply repeating that his views and policies are far out of touch will do the trick. Watching McCain at campaign rallies, giving interviews and doing debates, people will be able to see for themselves that this guy’s way past the height of his game.

  • Only my opinion.

    Out of all the issues this torture thing should be on the front burner roasting the heck out of the Republican Party. Followed by the BlackWater mercenary stuff. If presented for debate style in the national election, instead of impeachment by Congress, I feel Howard Dean will with public support and the Democrats could win the American electorate through Impeachment by popular election. All with the very MSM that is supporting McCain. Using the principle of violations in the Constitution by deliberate deceit and misinformation the America Democratic Party can risk as little collateral damage as possible. But the choice is which nominee is the question. Hillary or Obama.

    For all the readers out there, here is a very good video of Naomi Wolf, author and activist that describes the horrible association and likely hood this administration has to fascism.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc

    There are many citizens raising the flag of warning that our core government currently has morphed into exactly this cultural were America is caught up in a serious change that needs to be addressed.

    My personal concern is the slight break in current Mainstream Media public reporting. ABC, MSNBC have at least two first line Journalist, Keith Olbermann and the other public channel types that support that ideal America is making a transition to a fascism state. It is incredible how McCain being tortured for five years can support any notion or debate in waterboarding.

    Naomi Wolf makes an endorsement of Barack Obama which to me is not only the wrong choice but, Obama will likely fuel the transition to fascism. From Obama’s book Audacity of hope Obama clearly talks of Islam being the traditional form of theocracy that the international community accepts. Ironically, but true as a flag waving Christian, Obama expresses his opinion completely dismissing his Christian devotion so proudly announced so often. We all know Islam condemns the Jews. Worse yet the Wahabbi Arabs hate the Jews with a considerable amount of passion. Here, in America the Arabs have been a powerful influence in America in terms of money and power since World War II. Through Bush and Company the Arabs have likely been privy to National Security Secrets the average American would flip over.

    All this complicity with media moles embedded in the war in Iraq for years have in a deceitful way reported to America misinformation which likely in an impeachment would flush out a considerable amount Democrats as well as Republicans that have failed to support the very character and basics of the Constitution. For me that’s why Pelosi refuses to impeach all those connected in the Bush administration. Why for the first time in history there is glowing evidence that an American government, Bush and Company, with policy deliberately choose to violate the Constitution. Yes far worse than WaterGate. America is in a Fascist – Gate and the electorate is unconsciously with the help of the media marching through it.

    From my view there is no way any victory can be placed on the foundation of torture and secret mercenary operations in any war.

  • The fact that Americans would be less likely to want to be lead by an elder (in and of itself) is more evidence of the loss in moral character of the American people. Elders, while perhaps tending to be a little old fashioned, are generally wiser, more patient, and more knowledgeable than their younger counteparts. Elders used to be revered, not that long ago, right here in the U.S. to our betterment.

    McCain is a poor choice for president, not because of his age, but because of his own poor philosophical choices, and his own lack of integrity… which has been true all his life, not just in his old age.

    The Democrats would be wise to steer clear of this issue.

  • I mostly agree with Carped. The best thing Dems can do is follow Obama’s lead and praise McCain’s half century of service. Sprinkle a few, respectful “I was in diapers when McCain was in Vietnam…” type statements. Bring the age issue up discretely (as Dean just did).

    But if McCain’s age is mocked and ridiculed by a major Democrat, it will give free reign to the racists to go nasty. They’re going to go there anyway, but we don’t want false equivalencies being made in the press. Let the racists, cranks and Islamophobes become McCain’s baggage and President Obama will be sworn in without much trouble.

  • If the Democrats resort to using McCain’s age, it can only be because they have nothing else to go on, and believe me, there is plenty.

    What they should do, actually, is contrast his lack of appeal with young voters with that of Ron Paul, who actually gained quite a bit of traction with newer, younger voters, although not to the same extent that Obama did. Paul is the same age as McCain, even a few months older I think, but is more articulate, compassionate, and consistent in what he believes.

    Then when McCain starts complaining that people are biased against him because of his age (as he will) they can make the argument that it is really McCain’s ideas that turn people off.

    Like his flip-flop on torture, for example. I’m not sure I’ve ever been more disappointed in a politician. And I don’t think I expect that much from them to begin with.

  • I think McCain’s age is a definte liability but Obama should go subtly after McCain’s troglodyte mind set, which seems cast in stone, particularly if McCain emphasizes Obama’s inexperience..Obama must tell his audience how much the world has changed and we can no longer afford to a have someone as President with McCain’s experience which has limited the way he views the world. McCain seems to have a lot of problems with his short term memory loss as do many seniors..If I were Obama I might focus on recent changes in Europe, Pakistan and Iraq, which probably befuddle McCain and may demonstrate how he has difficulty keeping up with change.

  • Jim G said:
    The fact that Americans would be less likely to want to be lead by an elder (in and of itself) is more evidence of the loss in moral character of the American people. Elders, while perhaps tending to be a little old fashioned, are generally wiser, more patient, and more knowledgeable than their younger counteparts. Elders used to be revered, not that long ago, right here in the U.S. to our betterment.

    It’s true, elders were revered — after they stepped aside to let younger, more vigorous people take over the rigors of day-to-day leadership. Elders were respectfully consulted to provide an historical perspective that the current leaders might lack.

    Of course, the revered elders were men who had accomplished big things in their lives. I don’t see very much in the way of real accomplishments in McCain’s life. He was a screw-up as a Navy pilot. He had a period of bravery and maturity as a P.O.W., but almost as soon as he was returned to the U.S. he dumped the mother of his children for a rich, young sugarmomma. McCain has been more of a gadfly than a maverick and he has now repudiated his few bipartisan legislative achievements.

    Democrats should just leave the age issue alone. In the presidential debates, next to Obama, McCain will crash and burn like Adm. Stockdale did in the 1992 V.P. debate.

  • …if there were any reason to believe that McCain is not physically up to the demands of being president or has health issues that could put his ability to serve a full term in jeopardy, but there doesn’t seem to be any basis for making those assertions…

    No basis for making those assertions? The man is 72 years old and has had melanoma three times. McCain himself has said his selection of a vice-presidential candidate is very important given his age. There is ample evidence to question his ability to serve a full term.

    I wouldn’t talk about it directly, but I sure would draw some subtle contrasts between the older candidate and the younger candidate.

  • I’m sure Letterman and Leno will do plenty of bits about McSame’s age. I won’t help when he forgets something or gets angry, which we all know he’s prone to do.

    I’m sure every political cartoonist in the nation already has a cell drawn up of cantankerous McSame. They’re just waiting for a caption.

    We should hire a cadre of Vietnamese to follow him around and see if they set him off, after all McSame has been known to use rather affectionate words to describe them.

    Elders, while perhaps tending to be a little old fashioned, are generally wiser, more patient, and more knowledgeable than their younger counteparts. -Jim G

    That’s a false assumption. I’m not going to keep my mouth shut just because someone whose parents did the nasty before mine happens to be around. If they’re wrong, I’m speaking up.

    Knowledge, wisdom, and patience are not gained through simply existing. They are earned, and I know a lot of old people who are none of the above.

    Hell, most of the old people I know are irrevocably bigoted. Is that truly the kind of wisdom we should defer to?

  • I’d like to see an ad that shows a birthday cake with a forest of candles, saying, “We wish our opponent a happy birthday”, followed by “As a birthday present, we’d like to give Senator McCain a hug”, and the image of the McCain/Bush hug.

    Ads for Obama should show him being active, running up on stage, playing basketball with some kids when the ad says something about youth or education, and so forth.

    View of the desk in the Oval Office, from low and to the front so that all you can see is a pair of feet propped up on the desk. The camera pans to a clock on the wall that says 3, and pans back. Sunlight is streaming in the window. We hear snoring, then a phone rings, and the snoring continues: “It’s after lunch and the phone rings. Somewhere in the world a crisis is happening. Who should be answering the phone?”

  • I’m glad that Dean is not going to push the age issue; I deplore all discrimination, including that which is based on age. All the same… The cost of covering every chair-seat in the White House with plastic…

  • A young 72???!!! The guy can’t even dress himself or comb his own hair. He also can’t remember peoples’ names, hence the constantly calling everyone “My Friend”. Plus he can’t keep Shiites and Sunnis and Al Qaeda straight. I admire him for his service, but it is wrong to say he is a young 72. I seriously doubt he would live out a full term.

  • I’d say his age mattered if he hadn’t been an erratic, hot-headed, forgetful jerk for decades. Besides, now that they’ve got him on the right meds, he’s not nearly so unpredictable. 😉

    I think Democrats should adopt the strategy of “not mentioning” his age as often as possible. Like saying in press sessions, “Some might raise the issue of McCain’s age, but I couldn’t possibly comment on that.”

  • No problem, Danimal– I actually will be quite “carped” a week from tomorrow night, what with all the gefilte!

    And Doubtful, as usual, I find myself agreeing with you– many, many senior citizens hold attitudes that are, to say the least, outdated. I certainly don’t want that generation’s limited mentality running the country!

  • Hell, most of the old people I know are irrevocably bigoted.

    How sad for you. Others feel differently.

  • Doubtful (#27),

    McCain is only four years older than me (god, did I just write that?). I wholeheartedly agree with you. No one deserves respect for conditions over which they have no control (like old age, or being shot down and captured).

    I have never understood elder worship. It must be a holdover from the days of ancestor worship, when we thought the souls of the departed remained in contact with their family, clan or tribe to help them out with information about their neighbors or punish the secret miscreants in the tribe. Several African tribes refer to the elders with the term “near deads”, an honorific with the focus entirely on the next life, not this one. I can appreciate seeing elders as repositories of uncommon knowledge (the flood of ’57, e.g.) and maybe even wisdom (the stuff you ponder when you’re free from drugs and sex). But, frankly, the Wikipedia’s handier and less demanding.

    Usually people who begin preaching with “in my day….” are (1) mis-characterizing their day and (2) are thoroughly ignorant of what’s going on now and have no interest in finding out. In the 1970s I read a poem by one my students, published in our campus literary magazine (now defunct). It described some flowers he had picked on the way to school. When he got home he stuffed them in a soup can. They brightened his room. The last line, which has been in my mind ever since, was “They didn’t know they were dead. Not for days.”

  • James DIllon sez:

    there doesn’t seem to be any basis for making those assertions– he’s a pretty young 72.

    A pretty young 72???? WTF are you talking about. His arms don’t work, he’s had multiple melanomas, he’s clearly not completely mentally competent, he refuses to release his medical records, and he was NEVER the sharpest knife in the drawer, graduating 894 out of 899 in his class.

    He looks pretty damn decrepit to me. He’s the senescent senior senator in more ways than one.

  • This guys gonna croke if he’s elected. We might as well get out the dribble cup and the depends now.

  • Age matters to me and I am a grandma.

    I think MANY of the problems that are not addressed in this country have to do with lawmakers who are too old to know what life is like for families anymore.

    They may have grown up in normal households but they have been affluent and insulated for so long that they are clueless about the pressures the middle class and people in poverty face these days. They are removed from anyone but the people in power. We need a president that is about the people.

    IWe can’t go on as we have been going or I worry for this democracy.The people are hurting. Its not just him that’s old – his ideas are old and we can’t afford him.

  • Age is a legitimate subject for discussion. My father was dead at 72–of old age. Most old people have declining physical abilities and stamina. Some have wisdom, others act childish, but most are certainly slower than they once were, and less able to take in new information. I do find much to honor in many elderly people: stoicism, humor, a knowledge of how life changes, courage. But having an old person take on a job that is all about fast-moving change is not a good choice. And McCain is not someone who has ever been blessed by an overabundance of sanity in the first place.

  • My 72nd birthday comes in the same month as McCain’s. I can tell you there is no way I could last four years in the White House (assuming McCain or I would do more than just go through the motions). However, I can raise my arms and go out into the sun, so maybe you all should vote for me.

  • Eight of our first ten presidents were in their late 50s and early 60s when they became president… and that was a day when expected life spans were 45 or 50 years, and the ravages of age were daunting. They did a pretty good job.

    I agree, I don’t know why someone over 70 would even want the job (I hope to have a more relaxed lifestyle at that age)… nonetheless, the benefits of age, wisdom, patience, knowledge, can far outstrip the negatives (go to bed at 10pm).

    We should celebrate our elders, and judge each person according to his or her own philosophies, integrity, and actions.

  • Jim G (#41),

    Life expectancy can be misleading. It’s the average length of life for those of a certain age (just born or, say, fifty year olds). Like all averages, it is very sensity to extreme values. Think what one F can do to a GPA or what Bill Gates can do to “average income”.

    Life expectancy is highly influenced by infant mortality. When you read that life expectancy in Ancient Rome was 32, it doesn’t mean that most people died at that age. It means that over half the babies didn’t make it past their first year. If you survive childhood, in the ancient world or the last century, your odds of making it to “four score and ten” (70) were about as good as they are now.

  • The Republicans will bring up age on their own, only framed positively, natch. Lee Atwater dealt with Reagan’s superannuated status head on – “Hanging a lantern on it” was how Atwater referred to framing that issue before his opponents could. Democrats are walking into a minefield, and Dean gets it. If Dems proactively make McCain’s age an issue, they risk looking like bigots and hypocrites. If they wait for the Republicans to define the issue, they look weak and clueless. On the plus side for Democrats, the contrast between an energetic, dynamic Barack Obama and befuddled Grandpa Simpson could hardly be more obvious. But that’s precisely why the GOP will make age an issue. Remember Rove’s maxim: Attack your opponent’s strength. That’s what brought us the Swift Boat Liars.

  • My mom is a 69-year-old lifelong Republican, and she didn’t vote for McCain in the primary because of his age and health (“have you seen how scarred the left side of his face is?”). She knows he’ll only serve one term, and she wants to vote for someone who is prepared to serve 8 years in office.

  • I think McCain’s age is a legitimate issue, especially in a change election. If the Rethugs are going to seriously argue that Obama is unfit to be President because he doesn’t wear a flag pin on his lapel, everything is on the table. Just remind voters of how St. Ronnie used to fall asleep in cabinet meetings, or how many times he used “I don’t recall” as an excuse when any illegal covert activity came to light.

  • The largest demographic is the baby boomers – the oldest being 68 – They don’t think of themselves as being OLD but young and they are the biggest group that votes. Seventy being senile ain’t playing with them – they will be laughing their heads off come November. You go JOhn

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