The ‘Dream Ticket’ strategy

A week ago, at the Democrats’ debate in Los Angeles, moderator Wolf Blitzer’s very last question to both candidates was this: “The more I speak to Democrats out there, not only to Democrats here at the Kodak Theater but all over the country, they take a look at the two of you and they see potentially a ‘dream ticket,’ a dream ticket for the White House. There may have been some nasty words exchanged, or angry words or whatever. But the question is this. Would you consider an Obama-Clinton or Clinton-Obama ticket going down the road?”

The audience not only applauded the idea enthusiastically, a fair amount of the spectators literally gave the question a standing ovation.

The candidates employed artfully-worded dodges to steer clear of making any news with their answers, but it appears some top Clinton allies are subtly making the case that if Dems really want this “dream ticket,” they ought to vote for Hillary. Longtime Clinton apparatchik Lanny Davis argued:

[The] reality is that it is highly unlikely — I would say virtually impossible — for the ticket to be Obama-Clinton; but it is at least possible that it could be Clinton-Obama. I say this not because of any bias towards Sen. Clinton. It is just a simple reality. Sen. Clinton would not likely want to be vice president — she is now holding the U.S. Senate seat of the revered Sen. Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and she hardly would enthusiastically give up that Senate seat to go back to the White House, even as vice president.

Moreover, it is very likely Sen. Obama might feel having Sen. Clinton as his vice president would be very difficult since, given her fame and political influence, it would create the appearance (if not the reality) of a co-presidency.

On the other hand, a Clinton-Obama ticket would fit into the aspirations and goals of many supporters of both candidates: Most Clinton supporters like Sen. Obama and believe he could make a good president, just not yet; and most Obama supporters would love to see him as president but might see the wisdom of waiting eight years so when he runs for president as vice president, the issue of experience and political maturity will not be a factor.

So, if you like Sen. Obama but want the dream ticket, vote for Sen. Clinton!

And then, coincidentally, Clinton campaign chairman Terry McAuliffe floated a similar argument, raising questions about a coordinated message.

Whether coordinated or not, this strikes me as far-fetched.

There are plenty of good reasons to vote for Clinton in the Democratic primaries, but hoping to achieve a “dream ticket” seems a little convoluted. Indeed, Davis’ argument seems rather silly — Clinton wouldn’t want to be the VP in 2008 because Bobby Kennedy held her Senate seat in 1968. That’s relevant, how?

More substantively, I find it hard to imagine Clinton tapping Obama as a running mate, given that she’s spent the last several months — and she’s likely to spend several more — arguing that Obama isn’t ready for the perils of national leadership. Sure, it’s campaign rhetoric, but Clinton really seems to mean it. Then, all of a sudden, she’s going to turn around and insist that Obama should be one heartbeat from the presidency? I kind of doubt it.

That said, Davis’ other point — a Clinton-Obama ticket seems more likely than an Obama-Clinton ticket — sounds about right. It’s a pretty common discussion in Democratic conversations: could these two team up? The question, at least for me, is what Clinton would bring to Obama’s ticket. Davis argues that Clinton’s stature and greatness runs the risk of overshadowing the Illinois senator. As a Clinton backer, that’s pretty much what he’s supposed to say.

But I look at it as a more practical matter: nominees look for running mates who bring something important to the table: a regional balance, an ideological balance, a key constituency, etc. I’m not sure what Clinton would give Obama, which is why the pairing seems so unlikely.

What do you guys think?

The ‘dream ticket’ is about as likely as a snow storm in July.

  • That question should never have been asked because it is clearly loaded in Hillary’s favor.

    While there may be a number of Hillary supporters who’d love to see Barack Obama’s energy in the general campaign, there is virtually no interest in Hillary as VP on the part of Obama supporters.

    Clinton/Obama is plausible, despite the campaign rhetoric. VPs have a lower bar to clear on the “ready” question, so any of Hillary’s past comments could easily be explained away.

    But, Obama/Clinton seems completely implausible (and un-wise) for a number of reasons.

    To sum up: Dream Ticket for some Clinton supporters.

    Nightmare to many Obama supporters.

  • More substantively, I find it hard to imagine Clinton tapping Obama as a running mate, given that she’s spent the last several months — and she’s likely to spend several more — arguing that Obama isn’t ready for the perils of national leadership.

    That’s a non-issue. Clinton would be able to successfully argue that the VP slot would allow him to gain the experience needed for national leadership. The idea that she might kick-off a month or so after taking office is so remote, and the VP slot is traditionally about grooming the next person for the office, so no one would blink much.

    But the analysis is pretty much right – Clinton-Obama is the ticket that is a possibility. If Clinton wins the most delegates but Obama continues to pace at her level or better, she won’t have much of a choice and will need to select Obama as her running mate if only to present a “unity ticket” to the Democratic voters themselves. But Obama-Clinton is pretty much a non-starter. Clinton isn’t going to be playing second fiddle to another candidate, and if she can’t get the majority of the delegates with the head-start she had in name recognition and campaigning then she isn’t going to bring enough to the table for that ticket to make sense and Obama would be better off finding someone else as his running mate.

    That’s a dumb reason to vote for Clinton, though. If you want Clinton as the president vote for Clinton. If you want Obama as the president vote for Obama. Trying to game things by voting for one candidate when you really want a different one is just – dumb.

  • Aren’t most VP candidates of lesser visibility, so the Presidential candidate can shine? Also, I just don’t see either of them accepting the 2nd position (3rd in the case of Obama, since Bill Clinton would be 2nd).

  • Clinton/Obama would be accepted to Clinton supporters because they actually want unity within the party, whereas any such combination would not be accepted by Obama supporters, near as I can tell. I leave to you what that means about their belief in all of Obama’s “unity” talk.

  • Walt makes a good point and warrants the question… Is the presence of Bill at the White House going to scare away some quality VP candidates for Hillary since that VP candidate will be most certainly be sitting 3rd fiddle????

  • Actually, the two of them on the same ticket might be a little too much change at once.

    Either one will make a fine President – but VP will probably be a white male Governor, like Ritter or Schweitzer, not someone who just lost the primaries.

  • I think it’s unlikely either way, but there is a clear precedent for Obama/Clinton — the 1960 Kennedy/Johnson ticket. Two senators, with the younger, more idealistic/inspirational one at the top and the more experienced, older one at VP.

  • “Clinton supporters because they actually want unity within the party…”

    Sans the candidate and her Mr. given their actions in the primaries.

  • The question was silly when Wolf Blitzer asked it.

    But with Clinton surrogates out there talking it up, it is nothing more noble than an attempt to marginalize Obama and compromise his stature and authority in the minds of voters.

    This is exactly the kind of sleazy, Rovian politicking that has turned me off of Hillary Clinton.

  • arguing that Obama isn’t ready for the perils of national leadership. Sure, it’s campaign rhetoric, but Clinton really seems to mean it. Then, all of a sudden, she’s going to turn around and insist that Obama should be one heartbeat from the presidency? I kind of doubt it.

    Are you kidding?

    (1) Voters are not likely to make that connection. Unlike with McCain, nobody thinks Hillary will keel over soon. Hillary can totally sell it.

    (2) If she gets the nomination, and if she doesn’t ask Obama, a generation of new voters will be lost. All those kids who came in for Obama would leave permanently.

    Yes, Obama probably could not pick Hillary. But Hillary could certainly pick Obama, and it would be her best choice. It would heal a major rift and it would bring together the Democratic coalition like never before. He would be a strong VP. Cheney has proven that the office can be more than it has been; Obama could make that a positive change rather than a negative one.

    I’d prefer Obama at the top of the ticket. But Hillary/Obama would allow me to retain some enthusiasm. Hillary/Bayh or Hillary/Richardson or Hillary/Edwards, not so much.

  • But with Clinton surrogates out there talking it up, it is nothing more noble than an attempt to marginalize Obama and compromise his stature and authority in the minds of voters.

    You know this to be true? Really?

    Because when Kerry’s team first allowed that they were considering Edwards, it was seen as a noble, gracious, savvy, unifying thing to do.

    When Clinton’s team does the same thing, its evil. If Clinton dashed into a busy street and saved a baby from being hit by a car, people here would find reasons to hold it against her.

    Seriously.

  • It sure would be nice to have a “Dream Ticket” after 8 years of a National Nightmare, wouldn’t it?

    I’ve been pondering a Clinton/Edwards ticket as a possibility; I think Edwards in the VP spot could do for a lot of issues what Al Gore did when he was VP, and then, of course, Edwards would be perfectly placed to run in 2016, when he will be 62. I see them both as committed to universal health care, with almost identical plans, for example, and I think maybe they could “good cop-bad cop” the industry in a way that neither Clinton nor Obama could do on their own – and it’s going to take someone who is willing to devote serious time to if we have any chance of getting it. Given that it may take years to get it done, having Edwards poised to run for the WH in 2016 would carry the universal care torch on for another 8 years.

    For all the smiling and chumminess of the last debate, I don’t for one minute think there is any love lost between Clinton and Obama, and I see the two of them as battling for control between themselves more than would be helpful.

    It sure would be nice to know who is on each candidate’s short list for VP, because I think the VP choice really matters.

  • Keith Olbermann made the argument the other night that Hillary Clinton might be a kind of “attack dog” vice president the same manner that Dick Cheney is for George Bush. There is no question that Clinton is a bit more confrontational than Obama. And, as Otto Man pointed out there is precedent for this with the Kennedy/Johnson ticket. If both candidates find party unity important they might consider an Obama/Clinton ticket, depending on the outcome of the primaries.

  • JC said: “Actually, the two of them on the same ticket might be a little too much change at once.”

    Well, I don’t think the people who want to see the first woman president and the people who want to see the first african american president are going to decide they can’t have both on one ticket.

    Stop a minute though and imagine what an early declaration of the ticket would mean to McCain’s or Romney’s choice as VP. Alan Keyes?

  • The fallacy of your arguments falls apart on examination of past selections (Quayle, Kemp, Edwards). The only realistic analysis is that the process is unpredictable and a lot will depend on how things stand at the convention (e.g., horse trading, etc.) Both tickets are plausible, though Hillary/Obama does have a better fit.

  • If Clinton dashed into a busy street and saved a baby from being hit by a car, people here would find reasons to hold it against her. — Zeitgeist

    I have to agree with you. Clinton derangement syndrome is so deep that there are those who would suggest that Bill shoved the baby into traffic just so his wife could save it to look good.

  • No way Obama will take 2nd. He will want as much distance between himself and the 2nd “coming” (pun intended) of the Clinton WHouse. If he fails to win the nomination, he will bide his time in the Senate and run in 2012 after Billery looses to McCain.

  • Clinton has no business acting like she has more experience than Obama, unless she’s referring to the experience of being stupid enough to trust Bush in 2002.

  • The Vice Presidency will revert to its historical irrelevancy under Hillary and more than likely under Obama. I do not see either finding the position to be of any intrinsic interest, other than (as mentioned above) as a stepping stone to the presidency, which has actually not been a very good stepping stone over the years (see Pappy Bush and Nixon with a hiatus in the 20th Century).

    If Clinton wins, I think Obama would better secure his credentials and reputation outside the executive branch, either as Senator and/or Governor of Illinois. In 2016, he would be formidable and, no matter who is VP, a serious contender at 54 (?).

    I don’t see Obama volunteering to subvert himself as vice president. He’d be more likely to suffer through association with Hillary than benefit.

    In my mind this is no dream ticket. When was the last truly ambitious vice president?..Nixon? Johnson? Read about Johnson as VP….grewsome.

  • 1) Obama filed a formal complaint against Clinton in Nevada for shutting voters out of caucuses.
    2) Clinton campaigned through surrogates in Mich and Fla, then accused Obama of doing the same when he ran a national ad on CNN.
    3) Clinton supporters put Obama’s drug past into the campaign on several occasions.
    4) Clinton didn’t have the “judgment” to vote no on the AUMF and then voted for Kyl/Lieberman.
    5) Clinton voted against Obama’s ethics bill.
    6) Clinton argues that Obama lacks whatever that Johnsonian magic is that got civil rights passed.
    7) Clinton’s message is “I alone”. Obama’s is “Yes, WE can.’

    I seems to me they kind of step on each other’s themes.

  • Clinton derangement syndrome is so deep…

    Remember how amused we were when Bush supporters would attribute any criticism of him to Bush Derangement Syndrome?

  • “…the wisdom of waiting eight years…”

    Presidential terms are four years. I’m getting tired of everyone assuming that an incumbent president automatically deserves to be re-elected.

    “…she’s spent the last several months… arguing that Obama isn’t ready for the perils of national leadership…”

    This has been the problem with the Clinton campaign: while Obama has been arguing that she’s not right for the Democratic nomination, Clinton has been undermining Obama’s qualifications for president. This acts as a rhetorical double-whammy: “Not only is my opponent unprepared to be president, the fact that I’ve been saying so makes him weaker in the general election.”

  • Maybe they should cut a deal. Hillary/Barack in ’08, Barack/Hillary in ’12, Hillary/Barack in ’16 and Barack/hillary in ’16?

  • Sounds unlikely, but not as wildly implausible as Jeff Toobin’s repeated prediction that Clinton would appoint Obama to the Supreme Court.

  • What do I think? In a word, ICK!!! My dream ticket is Obama/Edwards. I just don’t trust Hillary, and her actions over the last month or so have taken that distrust and turned it into dislike. When all this began, I thought I could hold my nose and vote for her. Now I’m not sure. Danp said above that Obama and Clinton “step on each other’s themes”. I think it goes farther. The two are polar opposites. Some people like Clinton for her experience. I like Obama for his character and good judgment, which should trump experience any time. I don’t think associating himself with another Clinton presidency would do Obama any good, either short term or long term.

    As for Clinton Derangement syndrome, I don’t think it’s deranged to observe her actions, consider her history, and decide that she is just not the person you want leading this country.

  • If Clinton wins the nomination and Obama joins her, he would only appear to help himself. Would it actually hurt him? It depends on what he wants to achieve: power for power’s sake, or something more.

    As blogger Myrhaf puts it, it would not behoove the knight in shining armor to do a deal with the cynics.

  • I’m also not sure how this is materially different from Camp Obama, at the Illinois HQ, prior to Edwards dropping out mentioning that they would certainly want to consider him for Attorney General, that he’d be great at it. Of course, those hints not only encourage Edwards to drop out, they make it easier for his supporters to say “well, if he isn’t going to win anyway. . .” and soften up towards Obama, undermining — to use a term Obama supporters have used above — Edwards.

    But Its OK If Obama Does It.

  • Zeit-

    You’re nuts. Edwards was running out the clock, and everyone knew it. Obama and Hillary are in a statistical tie on SuperTuesday. I believe Obama actually leads in delegates.

    Can you see any “material difference” at the fruit stand between the apples and oranges?

  • leave to you what that means about their belief in all of Obama’s “unity” talk. -zeitgeist

    I’m inclined to think it is because they see her history and antagonistic style, the fight many say they like, as an enemy of unity. I would also suggest that it is impossible for someone of Clinton’s political magnitude to play second chair.

  • Barack will not risk getting slimed by the
    same Clinton sleaze that ruined Gore in 2000.

    You’ve got Clinton infatuation syndrome
    You’ve got Clinton derangement syndrome
    Obviously…
    They polarize the party and the country.
    And blog threads…

    They personalities are in complete opposition to his own message.
    He is far too smart to make nice with that sort of radioactivity.
    He won’t carry Clinton’s water.
    And who can blame him.
    He is the superior candidate.

  • I would also suggest that it is impossible for someone of Clinton’s political magnitude to play second chair.

    I would be more concerned about that if we were discussing Bill, but actually HRC has a long history of putting her own skills and ambitions second to Bill’s that may suggest her ego does not require being number one.

  • If Hillary wins the nomination and ends up facing McCain, I predict we will see a Clinton/Clark ticket.

    Wes Clark has been a loyal Clinton supporter for quite some time, and that will bear fruit if she gets the nomination. The reason I see him getting tapped for VP rather than SecDef is that I already see McCain running ads here in Florida billing himself as “Commander in Chief”. If Clinton wants to poke a hole in that platform, having a 4-star general and former NATO commander pretty much does the trick.

    Since politics is like poker, it would effectively be saying “I see your POW and raise you a retired general”.

  • ““…the wisdom of waiting eight years…”

    Presidential terms are four years. I’m getting tired of everyone assuming that an incumbent president automatically deserves to be re-elected.”

    Well in the vast majority of cases the incumbent president gets re-*nominated*. So if HRC wins the nomination this time around, the operating assumption will be that she’ll win. So his earliest oppty will be 2012.

  • Most Dems are going to vote for the nominee regardless of who it is, unity or no unity. (though the potential alienation of the youth and black vote is something i’m not sure the Clintons considered very carefully) They’ll say, i hate her/him all day. But they’ll vote against the Republicans…which pretty much sums up the Democrat strategy that’s worked so well over the last 20 years.

    Obama would be fool to accept the third wheel VP slot. (maybe he is, don’t know) Clinton would never do it.

    But sdh’s comment @1 scares me. It snowed here last July.

  • John S: I predict we will see a Clinton/Clark ticket

    I agree for all your reasons and two more:

    1) Clark is definitely a Clinton brownnose.
    He can’t fawn and burrow his muzzle deep enough these days.

    2) Clark is at a career dead end.
    Face it: Being Veep to Hils is about as dead end job as you can find.

    Think of the second point this way:
    The Republicans have been laughing at the left’s Bush derangement syndrome for 8 years now.
    There guy is in charge. They’ve been in love.
    Defending their adoration.
    Meanwhile their hate has been basically hibernating.
    Whereas most liberals are all hated-out…
    So if the Clintons win, the repugs are fully charged, and ready to go.
    And the country do-se-dos…
    The classic pas de deux of party apparatchiks.
    We’ll have 8 years of Clinton hate…
    Whomever is Veep will come out of it…
    Smelling like Little Rock roadkill skunk.
    Their career? Finis.

  • This tactic is really nauseating: Sure, you might like Obama, but you should vote for the Clintons because we promise (wink wink) to make him VP. Typical sliminess. Make it stop, make it stop!

  • It’s very disappointing that so many Clinton supporters here whom I respect have gone so far into the land of the Clinton Enablers. You’re seeing something that just isn’t there, and projecting your own irrationality onto Obama backers.

    Are there unhinged “Hillary haters”? Yes. Are there reality-based reasons not to trust the Clintons or to want them back at the center of national life? Absolutely. Just as there are irrational Clinton apologists and, yes, valid reasons to think they’d do a good job if returned to office.

    Dennis @ 24 has it exactly right–chalking any and all criticism of the Clintons up to “Clinton derangement syndrome” is as insulting and nonsensical as when Bush’s defenders justify his floundering with the same excuse/explanation.

    As for the “Dream Ticket,” it’s not going to happen. The Clintons won’t offer Obama the #3 slot, and he won’t take it. And there’s less than zero chance that he’d extend the vice-presidency to her (them) if he wins the nomination. Clinton will pick a bland non-entity with marginal electoral-map value like Vilsack or a double-down tough guy like Clark; Obama will select either a tough old white guy like Biden or Webb, or a “double-history” woman like McCaskill or Napolitano.

  • As someone who plans on voting for Obama today, I would LOVE for these two to run together.

    I do, however, agree that Clinton would never take a VP slot. Just wouldn’t happen. This is all or nothing for her.

    And while Obama may not want to either due to Bill, it would be horrible if he turned it down if asked — it allows him to build a resumé with foreign policy and executive experience, and sets him up wonderfully for a later run for the top spot.

    Sure, some folks think that’d be too much change at once — a woman and African American running things — but I really don’t see that. The fact so many are turning out for their events shows people are ready — they’ve just been waiting for the right people to come along.

    There’s also the fact that a Clinton/Obama ticket would TROUNCE any GOP contenders. Independents are the key to this election, and that pairing would keep them from going to McCain, who we know the media will typographically fellate, claiming him to be such a maverick and all.

    Alas, I don’t see it happening. There was too much bad blood spilled early on and I doubt that can be repaired enough to have this happen.

    **sigh**

  • Perhaps the dream team of a (choose your order) woman/black could be sold to Southerners with a theme of “Let’s get it all over with at one time and then get back to the white guys.” Their nightmare of those glass ceilings cracking can be taken care of with one swoop. For them it would be like pulling the bandaid off FAST!

    Seriously, I think Obama would go for Edwards and Clinton would go for some McCainish type politician to dampen the Clinton Derangement Syndrome on the right. My fear is that Obama would surround himself with establishment Dems from the DNC.

  • I don’t think Obama would want to be saddled with the baggage that this third Clinton term is going to bring. And don’t make a mistake, BJC isn’t going to be just hosting tea parties. He’s going to be as active or more active than his wife was. Obama would be overshadowed by BJC and wouldn’t be able to accomplish anything notable and then when he ran he’d be tainted by the GOP attacks that are going to be reminiscent of the 90’s. There’s no way Clinton will be able to perform. If anything will unite the GOP it’s standing in the way of allowing the Clinton’s to accomplish anything. We’ve already seen that they, unlike the Dems, know how to fight as the minority party.

    Don’t see why Obama would pick HRC as a running mate. She wouldn’t want it anyway but I don’t see how he benefits by having such a big name as his VP. As we’ve seen from Dick Cheney, the VP’s office can be quite active, and not in a good way, and I don’t see HRC sitting back doing nothing. The clashes wouldn’t be worth the headache.

  • I think an Obama-Clinton makes sense (at least one I would prefer). I think Obama appeals to a broader range of Americans while Hillary is obviously a polarizing candidate. I’m not saying that that is her fault, but it is true. I think there are a lot of people who could accept her as a VP but not accept her as the president. I think Obama as president is a greater threat to the Republicans because he’s a “wedge” candidate – someone who appeals to voters who would likely vote Republican. Hillary divides.

  • I think that serious VP candidates for either candidate would include Sen. Dodd or Bill Richardson. Obama might consider Diane Feinstein.

  • Hilary hints she MIGHT give me Obama as a VP if I vote for her.
    Ed McMahon says I may have already won 10 million dollars in the Publishers Clearinghouse Giveaway.

    Ah, the active word is “may”.
    If you want Obama in the White House I strongly suggest you don’t back him as VP since it involves the unlikely event of Hilary not just getting elected, but RE-ELECTED in 2012.

    I think I’d rather lick the stamps Ed sends and send em back than put any hope behind curtain #1.

  • “Clinton campaign chairman Terry McAuliffe floated a similar argument”

    Yes! Terry McAuliffe! Just the guy to take the country in a new direction.

    Who among us can’t wait to see this guy as Chief of Staff?

    /sarcasm off.

  • Who would be VEEP for the Clintons? The Clinton’s will need a very passive VEEP as Bill and Hill will run the show. The Clintons represent partisianship to the nth degree and focus on past relationships with scores to settle. Who needs their tempestuous machine. Not America.

    Obama does not need a co-dependent relationship to succeed as President. He embodies non partisianship and is focused on healing America and moving to the future The fact he does not have all the devisive baggage the Clintons have will heal the Democratice Party as well.
    This is what America needs to be able to return to our values of freedom.

  • Obama won’t accept a VP position with HIllary, it isn’t in his best interest as he can afford to wait up to 8 years. On the other hand, Bill can’t and since he is barred from running for president, he’ll have to run for VP and then succeed when Hillary steps down for cause.

    The 22nd amendment does not mention the office of Vice President so I suppose it is technically possible for him to run as VP since he will not be elected to the position. That way there will not be a co-presidency per se.

    “1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President, when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.”

    Another choice for Bill would be to run for Congress, John Adams did it.

  • Zeitgeist,

    I understand that you are an HRC supporter. I can respect that. However, you’re talk about “unity” in the Dem party seems to be undermined by your own personal attacks on Obama. As an Obama supporter myself, I do not hate HRC. I respect her positions and think she would make a good president. However, I believe Obama would make a BETTER president. That’s why I am supporting him.

    To me, HRC represents ‘old school’ politics and a continuation of the Us vs. Them mentality perpetuated by Fox News. Obama jumps the tracks on that line of thinking and pushes that kind of rhetoric outside the box. Sure, Fox News and the Republican’ts will attack him as well, but he has engendered respect from both sides of the aisle, IMO, more than HRC has.

    But you go ahead and continue your ‘unity’ march and attack Obama.

    It’s OK if HRC Supporters do it.

  • There is virtually no chance Obama would go for this. Hillary stands for everything he is working to destroy in Washington. He wants unity and hope, over the 50+1 shit fight. He wants lobbyists not to play the same spend and win strategy they played under clinton and GWB. And he actually believes in the Constitution and people empowerment over the clinton’s belief that their 35 years is why they deserve the presidency.

    No freaking way.

    If Obama where your run of the mill, craven politician he might take it. But that is not the man Hillary is dealing with.

  • Why would anyone want a vice-presidential nominee to be someone who lost her 20 point lead for President in just 15 days? Huillary Clinton is so far on the back of the power curve that she brings nothing. As Obama said the other day, he gets all of Hillary’s voters in the national, but she wouldn’t necessarily get all of his if she is the nominee.

    The Clintons are yesterday’s news. Why would Obama want to tie an anvil around his neck and try to fly?

  • Apart from the impressive concentration of political skill that a dream ticket would mean, I have to think that given the way things have been in America, the most compelling reason I find for it is insurance one way or another in the face of the prospect of assasination. Also, I do not think, after all the rhetoric that has issued forth from our candidates, that it is too much to ask them in the end to swallow their pride, ambition, etc., and put their money where their mouth is in doing what is best for their country. If we believe these folks in their words we should well expect them to be amenable to a ‘dream ticket!’

  • Clinton/Obama would be accepted to Clinton supporters because they actually want unity within the party, whereas any such combination would not be accepted by Obama supporters, near as I can tell. I leave to you what that means about their belief in all of Obama’s “unity” talk.

    If Clinton supports really wanted unity within the party, they’d be happy with either a Clinton/Obama ticket or an Obama/Clinton ticket. If Hillary really wanted unity, she wouldn’t be above being the VP.

    Pretty ridiculous to say that Clinton supporters are being gracious here while Obama supporters are not.

  • Notwithstanding my advocacy in a previous comment of the ‘dream ticket,’ idea. I have to suggest an alternative that seems notably more remote: Barak and Bill! A joke, I guess, but then Hillary could be Senate majority leader, Bill could be the first black vice-president, and change in these United States could really move into high gear.

  • A further thought: I wrote on my blog last night that for Democrats who genuinely like both candidates–and there are a lot of them, just not evidently on The Tubes–the “dream ticket” probably appeals as a way for each to shore up the other’s perceived weak point. Clinton isn’t inspirational or transformative; to many, Obama is. Obama is a fresh face and is attacked (unfairly, but never mind that for now) as insubstantial; Clinton’s certainly been around the block and wears her wonkishness proudly.

    It makes a lot more sense psychologically than it does politically.

  • I think either one should be looking to bring in someone with military cred, taking care of their “lack of experience” problem and the perception that Democrats are weaker on defense generally. I’d like it to be Wes Clark, but I’m thinking James Webb is more likely, with his Reagan and Virginia connections. A popular governor or former governor with military cred — I suppose Richardson would be among these — would also be a way to go. (Just no going near another Lieberman.)

  • Oh, and I have to agree that when anyone in a campaign talks about making someone else their VP, it’s always a put-down, unless the nomination is pretty much wrapped up. I remember when Clark came on the scene in the last election and the Dean camp started talking about interviewing him for VP. This is also why all candidates when asked if they would consider being VP say no. It’s a put down, to make people start visualizing them in a lesser position, instead of as the leader. It’s a question they can’t answer seriously until such time as they are no longer considered viable. I think Michelle Obama was having a similar problem when she said she’d have to think about supporting a Clinton ticket — it felt like one of those gotcha questions, and she was trying to temporize, not put in people’s mind the picture of a Clinton candidacy — this is especially apparent because her next words did go on to say that all Democrats would work for whoever was the candidate.

  • Gridlock @ 53 –

    I’d be interested to see where you think I have “attacked” Obama. That would be pretty unusual because I like Obama, and have said repeatedly here that I would have no problem supporting him enthusiastically in the general election. I just happen to think that Clinton’s strengths better match what I perceive to be the most pressing needs in the next term. Indeed, I am among those who would be thrilled with a “dream ticket” of Clinton/Obama.

    I’ve attacked some of Obama’s supporters (specifically and by “type”) – yep, guilty as charged – but I really don’t think I have ever attacked Obama.

    And generally my attacks on supporters have been because they petulently would rather elect a Republican than Clinton despite the nearly identical policies Clinton and Obama have proposed and despite the fact that any personal negatives one seens in Clinton (and oddly, it is usally Bill, not the one who would be President) I confidently state they are twice as prevalent in McCain. Which is to say even my disagreement is in defense of unity on the left.

    So I respectfully disagree with your assertion that I am not consistent in my unity pitch.

  • I don’t believe either ticket is plausible. Clinton wouldn’t take the second seat to Obama for the reasons you cited.

    He also wouldn’t gain much from having her as VP. She’d still be a target for the Republicans to rally against, his unity theme would be undermined by picking a partner seen as divisive by conservatives.

    Likewise, Obama’s advantages are his voice for change, his stance against the Iraq war and his ability to inspire crowds. He would lose all of that as the VP.

  • I think Bush and Cheney had it right. The President needs to be able to use the bully pulpit, be likeable, and come across well on TV. Give all the real power to the VP.

    Obama/Hillary.

  • I think either one should be looking to bring in someone with military cred, taking care of their “lack of experience” problem and the perception that Democrats are weaker on defense generally.

    We have a government run by civilians. Generals are supposed to be subordinate – the president doesn’t need a military minder to keep them in line. Generals don’t decide when to go to war, who to go to war with or when to stop. Countries that think otherwise tend to fall to repeated coups and suspension of civil liberties.

    The fetishization of people in the military (most egregiously demonstrated by the censure of citizen groups for criticizing Petraeus) is a dangerous path and I’d be happy if the Democratic nominee avoided it entirely.

  • I do not believe he would/should accept the VP position. Why should he take on the mantle of all the Clinton baggage….his values and integrity in no way mesh with the Clintons. If he wanted to seek the presidency at a later time, that would be an issue during a campaign. She would benefit far more from having him on her ticket than he would benefit. There are a number of great women who he could tap for a VP slot if he ends up being the nominee.

  • It’s another attempt to marginalize Obama. They know the tsunami is breaking and that in another week this race is over.

  • Interesting posts above. Recalling Carpetbagger’s post of January 19, though, we come across this quote by Obama.

    “The Republican approach I think has played itself out. I think it’s fair to say the Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time over the last 10 or 15 years, in the sense that they were challenging conventional wisdom. Now, you’ve heard it all before. You look at the economic policies, when they’re being debated among the presidential candidates, it’s all tax cuts. Well, we’ve done that, we’ve tried it.”

    I continue to think this was a gratuitous slap at Bill Clinton (the 15 years reference dating the comment) and the Democratic party itself. It’s part of an effort to run a “post partisan” campaign, basically running above the Democratic Party.

    It would be totally inconsistent with this approach for Obama to select Clinton as his VP after running a campaign on that basis. Frankly after all the things he’s said about her, even the milder past vs. future argument, I don’t see how she can select him, either.

    Of course each has to support the other when a nominee is picked. But that’s not the same as signing onto the ticket and ignoring the barbs they have exchanged over the last months.

  • re: pfgr

    that 10 or 15 years goes back to right around the time the republicans took over congress.

  • My first reaction was, no way would Hillary accept a VP, and no way would Obama want to play third-fiddle to Hillary and Bill.

    However, if Clinton were to win the nomination, she might feel the need to offer the VP to Obama in order to present a supposedly healed and unified democratic front.

    If Obama were to be offered the vice-presidency, he might feel that he can’t turn it down, because letting it go to someone else (Clark, Webb, Schweizer?) might give them too big a leg-up on the post-HRC nomination.

  • Oh, horseshit. This is just spin from the Clinton campaign.

    I’ll tell you who my dream ticket is now: Obama. He’s shown a stunning good judgement in choosing advisors and I can’t wait to see what he’d build for a cabinet.

    He’s already picked Larry Lessig as his technology advisor– perfect! Next I heard a rumor that he’d pick Edwards as Attorney General. I’m salivating at that thought– Edwards actually prosecuting corporate criminals! A Justice Department that actually cares about justice! It’s astounding.

    Maybe he’ll pick Kucinich to run HHS. Maybe he’ll pick Carl Pope to run the EPA. Maybe he’ll choose Wesley Clark for SecDef. So far, the guy shows a great talent for team-building.

    The non-offensive, relentlesslly-positive tone Obama has taken throughout the campaign used to annoy me. Now I see it as very smart: he makes friends, doesn’t make enemies, and people like him. What a perfect guy to build a “Dream Team” in the Oval Office, of every Democratic and progressive star available, and bring them together in hope and inspiration. Now that wouldn’t be just campaign rhetoric– appointing Edwards as AG and maybe Lessig as CTO would be enough right there to create REAL change!

  • It is unlikely that Mrs. Clinton would accept the Vice-Presidential role for any President after spending eight years witnessing Al Gore’s plight. Also, Mr. Obama would probably not be able to endure eight years of being Vice-President to the Co-Presidency of Bill and Hillary Clinton. By the way, does a co-presidency even have or acknowledge a vice-president?

    OBAMA-HAGEL ‘08

  • Everyone, everyone. Please remember that whichever candidate you attack, you are splitting the much needed unity that the democrats need. Don’t be greedy. Do you want reactionaries in the White house for another 4 years? Consider that this politicking is just that.

    Be inspired; be engaged; vote for your favorite candidate, but don’t devolve into petty attacks. Rush Limbaugh is saying that he hates his party candidate so much that he’d prefer to see a democrat in office. Don’t sink to that level.

    I personally think both candidates are qualified and I would be proud to vote for either of them.

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