The GOP base is unimpressed

Just to follow up on an item from yesterday, I suggested that the [tag]religious right[/tag] would not be terribly impressed with the president speaking out in support of the so-called [tag]Federal Marriage Amendment[/tag] at the last minute. Given the reactions yesterday from some leading activists, I think I understated the case.

“I’m going to go and hear what he says, but we already know it is a ruse,” said Joe Glover, president of the Family Policy Network, which opposes gay marriage. “We’re not buying it. We’re going to go and watch the dog-and-pony show, [but] it’s too little, too late.”

Of particular interest in the LA Times report, however, was not just displeasure with the [tag]Bush[/tag] [tag]White House[/tag] from the GOP base, but an under-reported division among conservatives over the anti-gay constitutional amendment itself. To be sure, most [tag]conservatives[/tag] love it, but some far-right heavy-hitters are balking — because it’s not harsh enough.

At least two prominent social conservative groups — Concerned Women for America and the Traditional Values Coalition — believe the language contains a loophole that would allow gays to seek civil unions. […]

Andrea Lafferty, executive director of the Traditional Values Coalition, and others say the second sentence leaves open the option that gays and lesbians could enter unions other than marriage; and that’s a deal breaker for them.

On its website, the Concerned Women for America says it “does not support the Marriage Protection Amendment as currently worded because the second sentence is open to differing interpretations.”

The proposed amendment reads: “Marriage in the United States shall consist solely of the union of a man and a woman. Neither this Constitution, nor the constitution of any state, shall be construed to require that marriage or the legal incidents thereof be conferred upon any union other than the union of a man and a woman.”

Apparently, under some conservatives’ reading of the wording, some states might still be able to recognize gay relationships in some legal way. That, in and of itself, is so troubling that they’re withholding their support for the amendment.

For what it’s worth, the Human Rights Campaign believes the opposite and has told amendment opponents that legal scholars believe the FMA “could forever invalidate [tag]civil unions[/tag] or other legal protections for same-sex couples, like the right to partner health benefits or fair taxation upon the death of a partner – even if state legislatures passed them and voters approved them.”

It’s just one more thing to argue over before Tuesday’s vote.

What I’ll never understand is why these people care at all about this. Are the head people making alot of money off of it? I could personally care less about this. Why don’t these moral religous people care about uninsured children, people without enough food to eat, important things?

  • Those of us who oppose this deliberate and indefensible discrimination should begin to use the word “marriage” for all couples of any gender. Once it becomes a social phemonenon it may never change the minds of the old creeps, but their children and grandchildren will throw out any narrow marriage law they manage to pass.

    An effective cultural grenade was thrown by the New York Times several years ago when it began to include gay couples in its weddings section. It’s amazing how fast this kind of gesture molds opinion and breaks down barriers.

  • I’ll repost what I wrote late last night on a related article since not many probably read it:

    It’s obvious that the Rs are making sure their “base” shows up to vote in November.
    I’d like to see a bunch of amendments introduced to this just to show how ridiculous and time-wasting it is:
    1) no divorces allowed, ever
    2) the govt will now decide whom you marry, or can’t marry
    3) no sex without the intention of procreation (outlaws contraceptives, oral sex, etc.)
    4) extra-marital affairs are outlawed

    Hey, prez and Rs, ever hear that gas prices are sky high? Have you heard that millions of folks in this country don’t have health insurance? That kids are getting a substandard education? That lots of people are homeless and/or out of work? Thousands of people are dying in wars, of hunger, and by the way, the planet is warming? Get a FRICKIN’ CLUE. You are wasting everyone’s time with this pandering. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr…

  • MN cowboy, “the poor you will have with you always.” Without poor people rich ones have no one to compare themselves to. Therefore poor people are the most imortant people.

    As for morality, no food, education, medicine is all a part of the deal. Jesus told the rich, “sell all your earthly posessions and give to the poor.” All they did was add “it” to the statement. “Sell all your earthly posessions and give IT to the poor.” See how moral they are. The poor are getting IT right in the back of the neck. Don’t you agree?

    We are staring in the face the identical thing that happened about 1,700 years ago when the Roman emperor Conatantine made a deal with the moral and took over the Roman empire. Less than 100 years later, after becoming a Christian nation, Rome fell and has never recovered despite all efforts. We are celebrating the 50th aniversary of becoming a Christian nation ourselves. It was 1956 when GOP president Eisenhower made a deal with the moral and added the term, “under God” to the pledge. Will America like Rome fall? Former governor Jerry Brown said Iraw was the final act. America is now declining.

    The Bush gang has made it policy to funnel tax dollars to religions. Billions and billions of dollars under the flag of charitable organizations taking care of the poor, letting them have IT.

    Pat Robertson’s Lear jet crashed yesterday. Representing God seem to have some fringe benefits besides salvation. Dr Schuller of “Hour of Power” drives a Rolls Royce just like the one driven by the queen of England, (actually chauferred I think). We have the best government money can buy and it’s the poor’s money that is buying it for God’s representatives it would appear.

    A lot more at http://www.hoax-buster.org.

    Do God’s representatives have a big surprise coming? Only if the wisdom of the people is actually wisdom and not stupidity. Only time will tell. The truth is there. The lie is now deemed to be moral.

  • It’s past time for the government to get out of the marriage business, for us to have true seperation of church and state. All the goverment should offer is civil unions and leave marriage to the churches (of your choice).

  • I’m curious as to what the government is going to do to me if I choose to recognize someone’s marriage, whether that marriage is between two men, two women, or a pink flamingo lawn-ornament and a blueberry bush. What are they going to do with their precious little FMA—haul me into court? Confiscate my earthly possessions, and send me to Gitmo? Drop me off in a back alley in Baghdad—or Tehran? These idiots are like “Animal House” in reverse; the Deltas are all fundie-freaks, hopped up on their kool-aid….

  • Somebody needs to ask the fundies what is their “final solution” to the gay problem? If gay marriage is banned, there will still be gays running around and shacking up. Then what? A marriage or civil union ban still doesn’t cleanse this nation of gayness.

    I’d like to see the debate on this measure move to defining marriage as between “one man and one woman” to take care of the polygamy thing and I’d like to see “man” and “woman” defined by age. If marriage is between anything other than 18+ years olds, than it would be “boy-woman” marriage and “man-girl” marriage. … or to really please the fundies, how about marriage being between one male virgin and one female virgin. Speaking of virgins, have Bush’s daughters signed a virginity pledge until marriage, and if they haven’t, why not?

  • #7, that’s beautiful. I have made the same argument with a right-wing corporate-libertarian friend who is always bashing the poor and welfare etc.

    I simply ask him, well, what the fuck do you expect to DO with all these people? Only a tiny minority are sufficiently brutal or greedy or ruthless to “lift themselves up by their own bootstraps”. What about the rest? Throwing them all in prison costs you even more money. If you let them rot in the streets they’ll create disease vectors that will infect you and your rich-ass family. If they don’t get sick they’ll foment bloody revolution and kill you and your rich-ass family. So what do you really expect to do with the poor? Line them up and shoot them?

    The answer is, well, that is the answer, isn’t it? Right-wing thinking– whether it is Grover Norquist or Pat Robertson– leads inevitably to fascism if pushed far enough.

    It’s the responsibility of society to take care of those who can’t take care of themselves. Darwinism and eugenics are for the jungle. Civilisations are defined by their ability to take care of their own.

  • FAILURE TO REALIZE THAT THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR IN ELIMINATING SIN IS THE SALVATION OF THE SOUL.

    YES JESUS LOVES US ALL, AND HE GIVES US COMMANDS SO THAT WE CAN BE WITH HIM ETERNALLY, INSTEAD OF FACING ETERNAL DAMNATION.

    PEOPLE DON’T YOU SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING. I USED TO BE GAY, BUT I FOUND THAT THE POWER OF JESUS IS MUCH STRONGER THAN MY FLESHLY DESIRES.

    GAYS SAY, I WAS BORN THIS WAY. I AGREE WE WERE ALL BORN IN SIN, WITH A NATURE THAT IS AUTOMATICALLY DECEIPTFULLY WICKED.

    THE IMPORTANT THING TO KNOW IS THAT YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN IN JESUS NAME AND YOU MUST BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.

    THERE’S NO HATRED BREWING FROM THIS CHRISTIAN’S HEART JUST LOVE AND A HOPE THAT EVERYONE CAN AND DOES FIND TRUE GENUINE RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS. YOU CAN’T WALK AWAY FROM HOMOSEXUALLITY OR SIN OF ANY SORT WITHOUT THE HELP OF THE ALMIGHTY GOD JESUS CHRIST. BE WE MUST SEEK HIM SO THAT HE CAN CHANGE OUR NATURAL EVIL DESIRES INTO TO RIGHTEOUS DESIRES.

    I LOVE GAY PEOPLE, I USED TO BE ONE, BUT I DO NOT LOVE THE PRACTICE AND IT HAS BEEN A TREMENDOUS STRUGGLE GETTING OUT OF THE LIFESTYLE, BUT GOD IS TRULY ABLE TO DELIVER YOU.

    I STARTED PRAYING AND READING MY BIBLE AND I STARTED FASTING AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK. I MADE THE SACRIFICE TO GROW MY HAIR AND GET UP AT 4am EVERY MORNING TO PRAY. GOD REQUIRED MY OBEDIENCE AND HE INSTRUCTED ME THAT I NEEDED TO STOP SPENDING THE NIGHT AT MY EXGIRLFRIENDS HOUSE. IT TOOK A WHILE TO BE OBEDIENT BUT WITH PRAYER AND FASTING AND READING MY WORD, SOON I WAS ABLE TO BE OBEDIENT.

    SINCE THAT TIME I CAN FEEL A CHANGE INSIDE THAT I HAVE NEVER FELT BEFORE. MY DESIRE TO PLEASE GOD OVER MYSELF HAS BECOME INCREASINGLY STRONGER.

    I LOVE MY JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    HE LOVES ME AND HE LOVES YOU.

    HE SAID THAT HE WANTS NO ONE TO PERISH AND THAT ALL COME TO REPENTANCE.

    PLEASE PLEASE BROTHERS AND SISTERS DONT HARDEN YOUR HEART WHEN YOU HEAR THE VOICE OF THE LORD CALLING UNTO YOU FOR SURELY THAT WILL ONLY END IN DEVASTATION.

    SATAN IS HARD AT WORK FOR HE KNOWS HIS TIME IS SHORT. THE POWERS THAT BE ARE ALREADY TRYING TO PLACE THE VERICHIP UNDER THE SKIN IN THE HAND OR HEAD. THE BIBLE TALKS OF THE MARK OF THE BEAST WHEREBY THERE WILL BE A MARK IN THE HAND OR THE HEAD WHICH WILL BE THE MARK OF THE BEAST. YOU WONT BE ABLE BUY OR SELL WITHOUT. HOW COME FEW PEOPLE SEEM TO BE RECOGNIZING THE SIGN OF THE TIMES.

    SEXUAL SIN IS THE ONLY SIN WHEREBY A MAN/WOMAN SINS AGAINST HIS/HER OWN BODY.

    KNOW YE NOT THAT YOUR BODY IS THE TEMPLE (HOUSE) OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. DO NOT DEFILE WITH SIN. TURN AWAY FROM OLD SINFUL PRACTICES AND LET THE LIGHT AND LOVE OF JESUS CHANGE YOUR HEART AND RENEW YOUR MIND.

    GET YOUR HOUSE (YOURSELF) IN ORDER.
    AS FOR ME AND MY HOUSE, WE WILL SERVE THE LORD.

    JESUS CHRIST IS ABLE TO DELIVER, SAVE AND KEEP ALL WHO CHOOSE TO SERVE HIM. MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE, THE ETERNAL CHOICE, NOT THE TEMPORAL ONE.

    I WAS IN THE BOOK STORE AND I NOTICED THAT THE ISLE WHERE THE BIBLES AND CHRISTIAN BOOKS RESTED, ALSO HOUSED THE WITCHCRAFT, NEW AGE, SATANIC BOOKS DIRECTLY ACROSS THE ISLE. SAME ISLE BUT TO OPPOSING FORCES FACING EACHOTHER. I SEEN THIS IN OTHER BOOKSTORES. I WENT INTO A RECORD STORE AND FOUND THAT THE CHRISTIAN NON SECULAR MUSIC WAS DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM THE SATANIC METAL BANDS.

    IT REALLY GOT ME THINKING ABOUT THE INVISIBLE WAR THAT IS RAGING ON. I THINK THAT THE SPIRIT REALM IS SO REAL AND POWERFUL THAT IT LEAKS OVER INTO THE NATURAL EVEN TO THE POINT OF THIS STRANGE PHENOMENON IN THE BOOK AND RECORD STORES.

    OH ITS REAL AND YOU IGNORE NOW YOU WILL FACE THE REALITY OF IT SOONER OR LATER.

    JESUS IS CALLING, WONT YOU PLEASE ANSWER WITH A RESOUNDING YES! YES! YES!

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