The painful task of measuring racism

The Politico’s Roger Simon has a new item that raises a depressing point that probably warrants some additional scrutiny.

I was talking the other day to a prominent Republican who asked me what I thought John McCain’s strongest issues would be in the general election.

Lower taxes and the argument he will be better able to protect America from its enemies, I said.

Republicans have a pretty good track record with those two.

The Republican shook his head. “You’re missing the most important one,” he said. “Race. McCain runs against Barack Obama and the race vote is worth maybe 15 percent to McCain.”

The man I was talking to is not a racist; he was just stating what he believes to be a fact: There is a percentage of the American electorate who will simply not vote for a black person no matter what his qualities or qualifications.

The question, of course, is just how big that percentage is, and whether it includes anyone who might otherwise be willing to vote for a Democratic candidate. Simon noted an AP poll from earlier this month that “about 8 percent of whites would be uncomfortable voting for a black for president.”

That, of course, is a ridiculously large number of people who are willing to admit to a pollster that they judge people based on the color of their skin. It’s compounded by the suspicion that there are plenty more who are also motivated by race, but are too embarrassed to admit it out loud while participating in a poll.

I’m reminded of a CBS News poll Kevin Drum noted a month ago: “Most people say they personally don’t care if a presidential candidate is black or white…. However, since most people either don’t want to think of themselves as racist or else don’t want to admit it, we might take that with a grain of salt. A more accurate accounting, perhaps, comes from what all these colorblind folks think about their friends. Answer: 33% say that ‘most’ of the people they know wouldn’t vote for a black candidate. This means that either a lot of Americans are very cynical about their friends, or else a lot of Americans are stone racists.”

It’s little wonder, then, that Republicans simply expect nearly one in seven voters to oppose Obama in a general election (should he win the Democratic nomination) simply on the basis of skin color.

Simon also pointed to this Washington Post item published yesterday:

Sometimes you don’t know what you’re up against until you’re up against it.

Barack Obama’s campaign opened a downtown office [in Scranton, Pa.] on March 15, just in time for the annual St. Patrick’s Day parade. It was not a glorious day for Team Obama. Some of the green signs the campaign had trucked in by the thousands were burned during the parade, and campaign volunteers — white volunteers — were greeted with racial slurs. More episodes would follow, according to staffers and campaign surrogates.

It’s the 21st century for crying out loud.

Now, my hope is that we’re talking about lunatics who wouldn’t vote for a Democrat anyway, and may not even be registered. In this sense, knuckle-draggers wouldn’t necessarily be in a position to influence the election’s outcome.

I’m also curious to see if the duration of the campaign has any effect. People who might have initially hesitated to support an African-American candidate (or, for that matter, a woman candidate) have the chance to get over the identity questions and consider the issues and the people on their merits. In other words, Obama gets the chance to win people over, by virtue of a lengthy process.

But to think that 15% of the United States is more racist than rational, more bigoted than decent, is almost too painful to believe.

Why are you giving shillary a “free pass” on this one – they have clearly played the race card.

  • Of course, maybe clinton has to play the race card – after all, American’s that have been paying attention the past 7 years know that we don’t need a bush-clinton-bush-clinton dynasty that represents big business, neocons, and the military-industrial complex.

    She really doesn’t have much else to run on other than distracting from a clearly objectionable proposition – that somehow a couple of American familys have become our defacto monarchy.

  • Didn’t McCain have most of that 15% already. Hasn’t the Republican’t party had that since Nixon’s ‘Southern Strategy’ and Ronald Reagan’s appeal to ‘Reagan Democrats’.

    Really, how many ‘Yellow Dog’ Democrats are there left these days.

    And I’ll suggest one more thing. What percentage of Americans who harbor in their hearts residual racism (or just fear or resentment) would LIKE to vote for a rich half-white ‘black man’ and get to say “The Legacy of Slavery and Jim Crow is Buried With the Election of Barack Hussein Obama as President of the United States of America!”

    The ‘Vote Once for a Black Man and You Never Have to Be Called a Racist Again’ vote might be larger than you suppose. Most people don’t like being called racist…
    …even when they are.

  • Say—didn’t Poo-Litico run a story quite similar to this the day before the Ohio/Texas primaries?

  • I wish we could blame HRC, but throughout this season folks have been seriously underestimating the background level of white racism in this country. We moved to rural Ohio ten years ago, and one of the first things I discovered was that almost everyone I met was terrified of black people, and a large percentage of them routinely used the word “nigger” in casual conversation (i.e., not in moments of anger or argument). I was astounded. As for whom these folk would vote for, many of them I have met voted for Bill Clinton.

  • But to think that 15% of the United States is more racist than rational, more bigoted than decent, is almost too painful to believe.

    For me the number has always been 18-20%.
    I believe that was Cheney’s lowest favorable rating.
    In other words: We are talking Dick’s dead-enders here…

    And to answer your other question: They wouldn’t vote for Obama if he was blond and blue-eyed either.

  • What really needs to be explored (and I’m sure the DNC has) is how this breaks down in the electoral college. If that 15% shows up in every state, it is a major plus for McCain. If it is only in the states he thinks he’ll win anyway, and assuming the states are small enough, it is less of a problem (as far as elections go). If 15% of CA won’t vote for Obama because of race, that’s close to devastating. If 15% of AL won’t, that’s probably an improvement.

  • “almost too painful to believe”

    Believe it. The only salvation is that the bigots tend to be, in significant numbers, in states already lost to us.

  • The man I was talking to is not a racist; he was just stating what he believes to be a fact:

    Well we only have Roger Simon’s word for that.

  • As an Irish-American from Boston where 30 years ago there used to be parts of the city where a black man couldn’t even travel through safely, never mind live in, take my word for it that it doesn’t get better until confronted. We had to go through the battles of busing and going after redlining realtors and banks. There had to be the pioneers who would be the first to move into a neighborhood and put up with the graffiti and flat tires. But now it is significantly better. Not perfect by any means but better. So avoiding the fight won’t help, we have to go through it.

    Avoiding the fight because we are afraid that it will be difficult because it will make it harder to elect a Democrat will just put the fight off. Do you think it wiill be easier next time?

    I’m ready for the battle of the first of black president. I’m sure it will get ugly but it’s time to confront these racial demons. It’s the only way we’ll ever exorcise them.

  • The same emailers that send me racist propaganda regarding Barack Obama generally bash all democrats. Yes there is a segment of the country that is not ready for a person of a different race to be elected president. They are about to be left behind in this nation’s history. The democratic registration and turnouts have been phenomenal and the party has been greatly rejuvenated by Obama’s campaign. I cannot wait for him to be able to focus full time on McCain.

  • Now, my hope is that we’re talking about lunatics who wouldn’t vote for a Democrat anyway, and may not even be registered. In this sense, knuckle-draggers wouldn’t necessarily be in a position to influence the election’s outcome.

    Sorry. If you hold this hope in one hand and pee in the other, I can guarantee you which one will fill up first.

    Unfortunately, there are a helluva lot of middle-class, lower-middle-class/working class whites who do vote Democratic who fall in that category. Remember the list of white resentments that Obama spoke to in his speech on race? He didn’t say they are all Republicans. They don’t speak of it publicly, but they hate “affirmative action” and believe they’ve been harmed by it. Where do you think all those votes came from in California to end all state-sponsored “affirmative action”?? And I am sure they think of Obama as being representative of affirmative action (while respecting Condoleeza Rice, who really is representative of the “affirmative action nightmare” come true – an incompetent put in a position due to her race and gender ahead of her ability)

    And sadly for me – as a person of Celtic heritage – I find it completely unsurprising that the events in Scranton would happen on St. Patrick’s day. Unfortunately, I can’t think of a bigger bunch of racists than the Irish, which is ironic given that they are the whites who have been oppressed for 1,000 years for the accident of their birth.

  • Lance (#13) – a “yellow dog Democrat” is not a racist. They are a solid Democrat – someone who would “vote for a little yellow dog” before they’d vote for a non-Democrat.

    I’m proud to be a “Yellow-Dog Democrat” – it’s why I never voted for the Clintons, and never will.

  • This is a fantastic conversation to be having. At last, racism is an open topic. That’s not to say it is an easy topic, but at least we are talking about it. I too am ready for the fight. Sure, there will be some knuckle walkers along the way, but then nothing worth fighting for comes without a fight. I cannot wait for Barack Obama to go toe to toe with John McCain.

  • While we are on the subject of affirmative action, I have to say there is something to both sides it. First, we need to acknowledge the truth that some people have been put into jobs based more on race, gender or ethnicity than on their ability. On the other hand, in situations where two more-or-less equally qualified individuals are competing for the same job, I do not have a problem with the person from the historically disadvantaged group gettng the job. That is how affirmative action is supposed to work.

    Moving foreward, we should begin to discuss what an end game looks like for affirmative action. Now hold on! Don’t get your gender appropriate undergarment of choice in a bunch. I’m not advocating an end to affirmative action any time soon, but we should at least begin to discuss what the conditions would look like when such programs would begin to be fazed out.

  • Mr. Obama, you are a black man. Members of the Weather Underground were black. The Black Panthers were also black. So is Rev. Wright and Farrakhan. You have said you don’t agree with the more extreme views of all these people, yet, you are still black? And if you’ve adequately addressed the issue, why do you think it keeps coming up?

  • What’s the percentage of Americans who would be thrilled to vote for an African American for president? What’s the percentage of Americans uncomfortable voting for a woman for president? What’s the percentage of Americans who would be thrilled to vote for a woman for president? What’s the percentage of Americans uncomfortable voting for someone older than 70 for president? What’s the percentage of Americans who would be thrilled to vote for someone older than 70 for president? What’s the percentage of Americans uncomfortable voting for someone from NY or IL or AZ or DC or from a big city or from a rural state or whatever for president?

    What’s the percentage of Americans uncomfortable voting for someone from the Republican party for president? What’s the percentage of Americans uncomfortable voting for someone from the Democratic party for president?

    All I see in the Politico article are a few anecdotes, a snippet of a statistic from a poll and a heck of a lot of hand-wringing speculation without a big picture view.

  • I’m not surprised at all. It’s definitely an issue we as a country need to deal with. (The upside to the Rev. Wright issue was Obama’s fantastic speech on race. He knows the issue personally and isn’t afraid to talk about it.)

    My cousins grew up in rural Minnesota on a farm. There didn’t know any black people. One of my cousins while in high school was able to attend a basketball camp where he got to meet some African-American kids and realized they weren’t much different than he was. It’s all a matter of personal relationships. That breaks down barriers faster than anything else.

    It’s a shame when people let fear rule their hearts. We are all susceptible, but realizing it’s within us helps us recognize its destructive nature and fight it.

  • 15% seems low to me. I am always set back when I am talking to someone I know and I get hit with something from left field. The N word in Texas is still alive and kicking, and something my Wisconsin ass had never scene before was the weird swipe of the face which I believe is a visual for spook.

    That being said, I think Obama can equalize that number by getting black people registered and voting. The numbers he brought out in Texas clearly demonstrated that they are a serious voting demographic.

    The deep south will be a huge battle come October. If Obama can continue to inspire black people, the south will get blue damn quick.

  • On a funny note re race, Obama was on The Daily Show last night (feed from Pittsburg).

    Jon (trying not to laugh) said we are concerned that should you become president “will you pull a bait & switch, sir, and enslave the white race? Is that your plan?”

    Obama, chuckling and with a wide smile and replies, “That is not our plan, Jon. But I think your paranoia might make you suitable as a debate moderator.”

    OK, that answer was spot on IMO. And hilarious.

  • Scott (#22),

    I think your assessment of the South may be optimistic, but certainly Obama will force Republicans to work harder in places they haven’t had to before. I think the more likely blue pick-ups will be in places like Colorado which is somewhat purple, but has gone red in the past. Heck, even Nevada and Arizona have posibilities. Even some of the eastern-most southern states like the Carolinas and Florida will be in play. But the core middle-southern states will be more difficult. Places like Texas, Oklahoma, Missississippi, Louisiana and Alabama may proove more difficult to flip.

    That’s not to say Obama shouldn’t push hard everywhere. He should. Make the Republicans spend resources defending places that have been strongly in their control.

  • I assume this man Roger Simon was talking to was a black man. As we have learned in this campaign season, black people are the only ones who are allowed to talk about race. And, since 85 percent of Americans are black (I confirm this every time I look around me), that estimate of 15 percent voting against Mr. Brave New World is probably about right.

  • Well, we’re going to find out. And the polls aren’t going to tell us. And there’s always the possibility that this election could bring out a lot of anti-black people who aren’t registered, who don’t vote. Half the people in this country don’t vote.

    It’s going to be a nerve-racking election night in November. Unless Obama has a huge lead going in among registered voters, there’s the possibility of a nasty surprise.

    But there’s no alternative now. I think there’s the same hidden, unquantified gender prejudice, maybe even more so, with Hillary.

    This is a hell of a time for a great social experiment in America, when we so desperately need to defeat these right wing crazies.

    The suspense is going to be unbearable. Unless, of course, McCain and Obama are running neck and neck – then we’ll know it’s a lost cause. Obama needs to be ahead in the polls to have a chance, I think.

  • This is a hell of a time for a great social experiment in America, when we so desperately need to defeat these right wing crazies.

    Yeah, because there’s ever a time when people like you won’t view anyone other than a white man running as a “social experiment.”

  • it’ll have to happen before i’ll believe amerikans will elect a black man or a woman to the presidency. and i hate myself for it

  • dat @19 sums up my feelings. Many of that number, 15% or whatever it might be are also far less inclined to vote for a woman and a large part of them are likely not voting for democrats anyway.

    Is it a problem for Obama? Sure.

    Then again, Clinton has this very high and getting higher negative problem and the woman problem and the do you really think that Scaife endorsed her for any other reason than that he has so much mud to sling at her and he’s afraid he might not get the chance problem.

    McCain has this old thing goin’ on, as well as the nasty, angry streak problem and a few skeletons in his closet as well.

    Turns out there isn’t a perfectly appealing candidate.

  • Always hopeful said: “I think Lance is referring to the Blue Dog Democrats?”

    The phrase is ‘Yellow Dog Democrats’, which means they would vote for anything on the Democratic side of the ballot even if it were a ‘Yellow Dog’. Which just proves that Tom is not one.

    The phrase was used about Democrats in the South who always voted Democratic because of their antipathy to the Republicans for the Civil War and Reconstruction. It wasn’t until the Civil Rights laws (especially the Voting Rights Act) and Nixon’s Southern Strategy that Yellow Dog Democrats started to die off.

    Blue Dogs are a new breed and yes they are more conservative than most Democrats. They also take seats away from the Republican’ts that more Progressive or Liberal candidates couldn’t.

  • It’s painful, but I don’t think it’s important. Anyone who has a problem voting for someone because they’re black is already voting for the Republican candidate anyway, that has been the case since the Civil Rights Act when the Democrats spurned all the racists and sent them into the welcoming arms of the GOP.

  • Roger Simon also says, “The same poll, by the way, found that 15 percent of voters think Obama is a Muslim.” CB, weren’t you hoping a while back that the Wright controversy would dispel this myth? Apparently, it didn’t.

  • Roger Simon also says, “The same poll, by the way, found that 15 percent of voters think Obama is a Muslim.”

    They don’t really think that. They say they think that as an excuse to oppose Senator Obama. Like I’ve said, people don’t like to be called racist, but they don’t mind being called anti-islamic.

  • 15% is way way low. if mccain runs against obama, mccain gets 70%. if he runs against hilary, 75%, under the theory that a black penis is better than no penis at all. will america prove me wrong? never count on americans to do the right thing.

  • When I applied for a management position at a hotel where I had worked for more than 4 1/2 years, I was told that a black woman with a grand total of 8 mos. hotel experience was more qualified than I was for the job. And yeah, I was real pissed off by Affirmatiave Action. I got over it by telling them to fuck off and finding a better job.
    But I know a woman who has never voted anything except a straight Democratic ticket in over 30 years. She told me she’d never vote for a black man for President.
    I told her that her only other choice was McCain. She told me that her other choice was to not vote for anyone for President.

  • 18. On April 22nd, 2008 at 11:56 am, Charlie Gibson said:
    Mr. Obama, you are a black man. Members of the Weather Underground were black. The Black Panthers were also black. So is Rev. Wright and Farrakhan. You have said you don’t agree with the more extreme views of all these people, yet, you are still black? And if you’ve adequately addressed the issue, why do you think it keeps coming up?

    Mr. Gibson,
    With all due respect, please take a look at the following website. Perhaps the shoe fits on the other foot too. If we were not such a racist country.

    http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp

  • But to think that 15% of the United States is more racist than rational, more bigoted than decent, is almost too painful to believe.

    Ask any black person you know and they’ll tell you 15% is a horrendously low percentage. For example, let’s take a look at the comments of our good friend merl:

    39. On April 22nd, 2008 at 11:17 pm, merl said:
    When I applied for a management position at a hotel where I had worked for more than 4 1/2 years, I was told that a black woman with a grand total of 8 mos. hotel experience was more qualified than I was for the job. And yeah, I was real pissed off by Affirmatiave Action. I got over it by telling them to fuck off and finding a better job.

    Well Merl, I worked in a hotel for 3 years. When an opening came up for low level management I applied only to have my application “lost” by the GM who gave the job to his neice with no previous work experience let alone hotel experience. She always bragged to us how “lucky” she had been to do so well landing her first job. White folks have practiced this type of “Affirmative Action” for centuries and still do. Whites only seem to have a problem with it when the government makes them hire people fairly.

    You don’t mention if the black woman you worked with had a degree; an associates degree at a two year college or even a stint at a decent vocational school would probably give her an edge. You don’t mention whether she only worked at your hotel for 8 months or whether she had been employed at a different hotel before the one you worked for. You don’t mention how many other black employess, if there were any, who either worked there or even applied. But from the fact that even after moving on to a “better job” you still remember that this one black woman got a job you felt you deserved tells me that she was probably one or one of a very few blacks that worked there.

    Your racism and bigotry shows righ through when you describe how “pissed off by Affirmative Action” you were. I suppose you think you’re above such things but the fact that there are many factors you haven’t considered, namely that she may have actually been more qualified than you and Affirmative Action had nothing to do with her being hired. But I suppose it suits your ego better to believe that a black person had to be “given” a job but you “earned” yours, right?

    And even if she was hired due to Affirmative Action, she would still have to prove herself and do the actual job. Besides, you were still able to go on and find “a better job anyway”. Why begrudge her the opportunity she was given to better her life?

    That my friends is racism in a nutshell. Believing that black people don’t deserve a chance even if they earn it and nay saying their accomplishments no matter how honestly gained.

  • I just yesterday had the very same conversation with someone about the “race” issue. Being Southern,I know a thing or two about how the shade of one’sskin “colors”(pardon the pun) the conversation,and the perceptions. How do you think the Republican party became so strong-Dixiecrats,for one thing.Why do poor whites vote against their OWN self interest ,voting again and again to ennable and ennoble Republican politicians who are effectively eviscerating their jobs and homes with their TOP DOWN fiscal policies. Let’s not even talk about the disgraceful manner of treating troops and their families by Repubs. ANd,nce again,poor folk are the ones enlisting as cannon fodder. This silent prejudice is an abcess on the soul of America,and a cancer on our country.I was unaware the competency was incumbent upon color….Just for the record,I’m white.

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