The perils and perceptions of a ‘patriotism problem’

Time’s Joe Klein devotes his print column this week to Barack Obama and what Klein perceives as the senator’s “patriotism problem.” After watching Obama campaign in Pennsylvania, the columnist argues that it’s the one thing “missing” from Obama’s campaign pitch.

Patriotism is, sadly, a crucial challenge for Obama now. His aides believe that the Wright controversy was more about anti-Americanism than it was about race. Michelle Obama’s unfortunate comment that the success of the campaign had made her proud of America “for the first time” in her adult life and the Senator’s own decision to stow his American-flag lapel pin — plus his Islamic-sounding name — have fed a scurrilous undercurrent of doubt about whether he is “American” enough.

“In this campaign, we will not stand for the politics that uses religion as a wedge and patriotism as a bludgeon,” he said on the night that he lost Ohio and Texas. But then he added, “I owe what I am to this country, this country that I love, and I will never forget it.” That has been the implicit patriotism of the Obama candidacy: only in America could a product of Kenya and Kansas seek the presidency. It is part of what has proved so thrilling to his young followers, who chanted, “U-S-A, U-S-A,” the night that he won the Iowa caucuses. But now, to convince those who doubt him, Obama has to make the implicit explicit. He will have to show that he can be as corny as he is cool.

The argument reminds me quite a bit of a recent column from Jonah Goldberg — generally not a writer Klein would want to be compared to — who insisted to LA Times readers a few weeks ago that Obama doesn’t use the “P-word” nearly enough. “One cannot credibly talk of love of country while simultaneously dodging the word and concept of patriotism,” Goldberg said, adding, “[O]ne cannot sufficiently love one’s country if you are afraid to say so out loud.”

Neither Klein nor Goldberg said that Obama’s love of country somehow falls short, but rather, that his rhetoric isn’t nearly overt enough about it.

It’s not enough to be patriotic, and act in a patriotic fashion, Obama must overcome doubts — created by baseless reports, senseless bigotry, and an ugly smear effort — by making it plain. For Klein, running for president and talking about “this country that I love” is insufficient. These are “implicit,” not “explicit,” examples of patriotism.

I’m not sure if this is good advice or not, but either way, the subject has become unusually tiresome.

First, as Jason Linkins explained, we’ve all heard quite enough of this.

Very few things fail to impress me more than sad arguments over a Presidential candidate’s level of “patriotism.” I am sufficiently convinced that all the candidates in the race, on all sides, have sufficient affection for this country. It’s so hard to imagine that anyone would publicly declare their desire to serve in such a difficult job that questioning their patriotism is simply not a matter of discussion for serious men and women. It is the province of tinfoil hat wearing, “Manchurian candidate” suspecting loons and partisan hacks who lack the intellectual depth to wield a more substantive brickbat.

Second, the Klein-Goldberg hand-wringing is factually mistaken. As Media Matters recently documented, Obama has talked and written about patriotism at great length. The “explicit” rhetoric isn’t exactly hiding.

Indeed, it was Klein himself who wrote a month ago today that Obama delivered a speech after his March 5 defeats in which “patriotism replaced hope as a theme.”

So, Obama is talking about patriotism, valuing patriotism, and acting in a patriotic way. And yet, Time readers will read this week that patriotism is nevertheless “missing” from Obama’s message to voters.

I often get the sense that short of changing his name and wearing ridiculous costumes, Barack Obama just won’t be able to make these questions go away.

Patriotism must be a function of skin color if Mark Penn is a patriot while ex-marine pastor Wright is not. Is Barack half-patriotic?

  • It’s that damn American Flag lapel pin again. Wear one, and you’re a patriot. Don’t wear one and you’re not. Simple as that.

    Or not so simple:

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/4/14552/71615/226/489962

    Personally I will never wear an American Flag in my lapel. Every time I see one, I think of the person who started the fad among Republicans – that great patriot Richard Nixon.

  • You know, I’m sure the Republicans who have ruined this country the last seven years consider themselves “patriots”. They certainly proclaim it loudly enough and accuse any opponet as not being “patriotic”. However, that has not stopped them from enacting law after law stripping the rights away from their fellow countrymen.

    Strange how “patriotism” begins and ends at Republican boundaries.

  • If Obama is elected, will he open the U.S. borders to every ill, penniless, and criminal resident of Kenya the way George Bush has done for Mexico? He uses every opportunity to assert that the U.S. will not send illegal immigrants home. Even though the majority of them are from South America, I would think he would be even more hospitable to those from his ancestral land.


  • “As Media Matters recently documented, Obama has talked and written about patriotism at great length”

    Steve, you’re assuming Klein ‘does’ research. Don’t you know that he doesn’t have the time nor the background for research? Thankfully, he has someone like Jonah to do the heavy lifting for him.

  • Joke Line is so concerned about Obama’s “Patriotism Gap” that he has to rehash old “problems” such as Mrs. Obama’s comment (since husbands are ultimately responsible for their wives’ behavior I guess); the flag pin (which has been thoroughly mocked) and his name which I would think is his parents’ problem unless Joker is suggesting children pick their names.

    have fed a scurrilous undercurrent of doubt about whether he is “American” enough.

    Yep. Because the arseholes who are running around screaming OMG OBAMA IZ AN ANGRY BLACK MOOSLIM HEZ GONNA KILL US!!! would settle down vote for him if only he’d slap a gag on the wife, put on some Patriot Bling and change his name.

    Can you say “Concern Troll”?

    Good.

  • The problem is one of semantics. Nationalism promotes the idea of superiority of one’s own country and its perceived interests over those who live within other geographic boundaries. Nationalism is usually mislabeled as patriotism, both by the media and those who espouse a nationalistic worldview. Patriots love their country and want it to act in a morally responsible way in its dealings with its own citizens and the citizens of other nations. Nationalists desire to use their nation’s government to promote their own self-interest, even if it comes at the expense of other people. Nationalists are like sports fans who blindly support their favorite teams. The difference is that who wins the Final Four will have little to no impact on the lives of a team’s respective fans, while the nationalistic actions of our government have a very real impact on the lives of millions of people throughout the globe.

  • Hey—I know lots of Germans who wore swaztika armbands; it certainly didn’t make them “Good Germans. Dolts like Klein and Goldberg aren’t that different from those guys—other than the age difference. But as with their political predecessors, no amount of common sense will ever cause them to understand that, just as you can be patriotic and not wear such a pin, you can likewise wear a thousand such pins and still be an enemy of the Republic

  • “When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.” -Sinclair Lewis

  • Lab Partner (7): Great article. Thanks. Now here’s the challenge. Every time either of us sees a post mentioning Klein, we post the link to this article. At the end of the year, we count to see who posted it more times. Good luck.

    Jason Linkin: I am sufficiently convinced that all the candidates in the race, on all sides, have sufficient affection for this country. It’s so hard to imagine that anyone would publicly declare their desire to serve in such a difficult job that questioning their patriotism is simply not a matter of discussion for serious men and women.

    This is a joke, right?

  • This is as stupid as insisting you don’t love your wife unless you hold her hand everywhere you go in public. Some people are just more demonstrative than others, and it is not a reliable indication of actual feelings. Remember the Republicans and their stupid purple fingers at Bush’s stupid State of the Onion speech? How often have you seen any of them with purple fingers since? Does this mean they no longer care about democracy in Iraq?

    Wearing a little metal flag pin on your lapel doesn’t make you a patriot any more than wearing a Fifty Cent T-Shirt will make you black if you aren’t.

  • Jess (9): Just say the US has the best legal system in the world, and no one will dispute it. Ask them to describe another one, and you get crickets. But ask them if they like our system or if they have a generally good opinion of lawyers, and most will say no. I’m not sure I would call it nationalism, but generally I agree with your distinction. And it is a problem.

  • Hmmm. It looks like Joe Klein has a serious patriotism problem. Judging by his standards, let’s see, he has that name problem – Klein – which is German and therefore he can be suspected of having a fascist background. The religion thing, his being Jewish, is contradictory to the Christian right’s assertion that this is a Christian nation. Looking at his photo at his Swampland blog, an American flag lapel pin is NOT VISIBLE. What? Is he not proud enough of this nation to make sure his flag pin is visible. In fact I challenge anyone to find a photo of him with a flag lapel pin on. He also works for a magazine that made Adolf Hitler its Man of the Year. How’s that for consorting with un-American types. Has Joe condemned and renounced that and ended his association with Time?

    Joe, you’re a fraud and your writing is bullsh*t.

  • “and your flag decal won’t get you into heaven anymore
    it’s already overcrowded from your dirty little war
    Now Jesus don’t like killing
    No matter what the reason’s for
    and your flag decal won’t get you into heaven anymore”
    -John Prine

    I’m hoping for the pendulum to swing away from the phony patriotics. As with all things Bush and Cheney, neocon, and GOP, the integrity is gone, they are corrupt and to be reviled.

  • “I often get the sense that short of changing his name and wearing ridiculous costumes, Barack Obama just won’t be able to make these questions go away.”

    Two for three, Steve. If Barack Obama really wanted the questions to go away, he could become a Republican. Or drop out. His choice, really.

    On an unrelated note, I hear Joe Klein has a baby-raping problem. The fact that I mention it has nothing to do with any of my personal or professional predispositions to disdain him as a shitty writer, lazy researcher, or all-purpose conservative tool. I’m just saying, coincidentally, that people are talking about Joe Klein as someone who apparently has a baby-raping problem; the fact that some of his political enemies might also use this as an attack on him for their own ends is completely irrelevant, so I’m not concerned at all that people will come to deride him as a shitty writer, lazy researcher, or all-purpose conservative tool *and* a baby-raper; I’m just going to say he’s got a baby-raping problem, which some people are talking about and might have a problem with, and I’ll let readers make of it what they will.

  • He also works for a magazine that made Adolf Hitler its Man of the Year.

    They used a different rubric in choosing the man of the year then. In 1938, it wasn’t an award, it was recognition that a certain person “for better or for worse….has done the most to influence the events of the year.”

    Now it’s an “honor” given out to so-called “good” people, so as not to offend anyone’s delicate sensibilities (except for the choice of Putin – that selection actually met the magazine’s original criteria for the first time in decades.)

  • Well, the Pantload should show his love of country by immediately enlisting in the Marines and volunteering to be deployed to Iraq until victory is won, after which he can go to Afghanistan and remain there until al-Queda has been destroyed and Osama killed/captured. Oh, and he can take Fred Kagan with him, Fred could stand to lose a few pounds anyway.

  • The appearance of patriotism is far more important than the real thing. I started watching the documentary “The Goebbels Experiment” last night,
    http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000EULK1O/ref=_dp_top?%5Fencoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

    and it absolutely mirrors the relentless pushing of symbolic propaganda for the sake of gaining control by demanding fealty to the state and party that ShrubCo/RoveCo/RepubCo espouses. I guess the “Experiment” was to see to what extent words and dramatic delivery of those words could be used to influence mass citizenry. And for a while it worked for Goebbels and Hitler. Up until it destroyed everything they created and the populace which followed them over the cliff.

    Goebbels was quite overt, (at least in his diaries and with his peers), as to how propaganda could be used to influence opinion. Honesty and factuality never played a part and there was no question as to whether or not that was correct. The desired influence was achieved, thus the methodology was correct.

    That is why it’s so frustrating to hear and read demands for apologies and contrite retractions when the right trips over it’s own dishonesty. Their capacity for remorse and introspective contrition is nil. They are sociopaths and the envious enablers of sociopaths.

    There is only one patriotism and that is the patriotism of The Party. All other patriotisms are suspect, inferior and likely a ruse to undermine the Homeland. Wearing a flag pin is more important than rational and effective gov’t management. It’s more important than concern for the general well being of the populace. It’s more important than respecting the constitutional laws of the land and it’s more important than basing “war” and foreign occupation on anything more than the whims and power cravings of a bunch of corporate shills.

    Goebbels would have no trouble finding his place in RoveCo/RepubCo. He would be their own rock star.

  • Shorter Klein/Pantload: Obama’s patriotism isn’t stupid enough to “play in Peoria.”

    One reason I support this guy is because he actively disdains the bullshit political atmospherics of the Bush/Clinton/Bush era, where simplicity reigns and any anti-constitutional atrocity is tolerated so long as it’s couched in the language of ultra-nationalism. Obama and his advisors have been quite outspoken in rejecting “the politics of fear”; my hope is that he’ll continue on this course in discussing a patriotism of deed and belief rather than empty symbolism and mindless parroting of slogans.

    For many candidates, unfortunately, this course would be political suicide–and I don’t doubt that some on Obama’s political team will counsel him against it. But this guy has unusual ability to talk in a serious, complex yet effective way about subjects our “leaders” usually only address in a fashion geared to six year-olds. He recognizes teachable moments, and teaches.

  • It never ceases to amaze me how many ignorant people there are . Then you have to ask yourself…. Why are they working for minimum wage ? That’s because the report that came out a few days ago which states that less than half of high school students graduate, is true. Let us put aside the fact that this article is totally slanted. With statements like ” “Yeah I worked with black people and they weren’t all that bad” I think that the young people who don’t have all these years of resentment will put Obama over the top. If you think that they are coming out in droves now, Wait until the general election …….

  • Fortunately, I have every confidence that if this actually becomes a real issue, Obama will address it as directly and devastatingly, such that the public will forever remember the lapel pin as a symbol of those who enjoy the fruits of political corruption while sending our children to die in illegal and immoral wars.

    If the right really wants to battle Obama on an intrinsically rhetorical issue where they are clearly in the wrong, their smug and hypocritical asses will get handed to them. Seems like a huge strategic mistake to me.

  • “This is as stupid as insisting you don’t love your wife unless you hold her hand everywhere you go in public.” — Mark @ 13

    I’d take it a bit further: insisting you don’t love your wife unless if you keep her at home taking care of 12 kids and having dinner on the table when you get home from your exhausting day at work.

    Most republicans are capable only of nationalism; patriotism is far too complex a subject to wrap their reptilian, binary brains around. Patriots would not have done ANYTHING that republicans have done in the last 7 years. Nothing.

  • barak would do well to listen to these criticisms from his virtual ‘team of rivals’ and make some half-time adjustments, such as wearing a flag pin. after all, they’re made in china, probably cost all of a dollar, and would do wonders wrt appealing to reagan/hillary democrats and independents.

    as it’s noted in the I Ching, (paraphrased) — in matters of fashion go with the flow, in matters of principle, do not waver.

  • All of the attacks on Obama’s wife because of “for the first time” quote annoy the hell out of me!

    First, they always misquote her!!! Even selective quoting only “for the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country” gets mangled to only ‘my lifetime’ on a regular basis.

    She is 44 years old. Her adult lifetime is basically just the last 20-25 years. What has she seen at the presidential level? The Iran-Contra Regan years + almost 20 years of Bush-Clinton-Bush… Meanness & demagogary at the political level. Incompetence, corruption, corporate ownership, & war at the governing level.

    What is there to be REALLY PROUD OF during those years? There are many things that I can be PROUD OF for & within the country, but ZERO at the presidential level that I am REALLY PROUD OF!

  • I’m so tired of lapel pin patriots I could spit.

    When I was in grad school the chickenhawks showed their patriotism by displaying flags all over the place. My wife and I decided to fight back since we regarded this as our country, too. Even though it cost us some needed money, we bought and displayed a large flag on the home we rrented (for $70 a month).

    Trouble with lapel pin patriotism is that it’s against flag etiquette. “The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, fireman, policeman and members of patriotic organizations.”

    Couldn’t be clearer, could it? What I can’t understand is why more “patriotic” right-wing groups don’t point this out to their idiot brothers and sisters, especially those in the Bush Crime Family and their congressional enablers.

  • @13.
    On April 5th, 2008 at 1:05 pm, Mark said:

    How often have you seen any of them with purple fingers since? Does this mean they no longer care about democracy in Iraq?

    Did they ever?

  • “tinfoil hat wearing, “Manchurian candidate” suspecting loons and partisan hacks who lack the intellectual depth to wield a more substantive brickbat”

    Sounds like Klien and Goldberg in a nutshell..

  • “I’m so tired of lapel pin patriots I could spit.” — Ed @ 28

    Yeah, they’re right up there with the machine gun patriots, the bomb-em-back-to-the stone-age patriots and the turn-the-place-to-glass patriots. Shit, with lines like those I could write for McCain.

  • So, Obama is talking about patriotism, valuing patriotism, and acting in a patriotic way. And yet, Time readers will read this week that patriotism is nevertheless “missing” from Obama’s message to voters. — CB

    They don’t need to read it in Time this week; they’ve heard it so many times before, that it’s taken root in people’s consciousness. In the following article, which appeared in NYTimes yesterday, at least one person said she wouldn’t vote for Obama, because he won’t wear a lapel pin.

    What the article — ever so subtly — hints at is that all those people look for any excuse, however lame, rather than admit that they don’t want to vote for a black. It really *is* about race (the town is Latrobe, PA and almost entirely white, as well as depressed economically) but nobody wants to be called a racist, so they think of other “reasons”. Lack of overt patriotism is as good a “reason” as any, to enable you to stick to your prejudices, while not appearing to be a bigot.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/04/us/politics/04penn.html?ref=politics

  • The fact remains that if Obama was to wear his Chinese made American flag pin at every event, if he espoused the “P” word ad naseum, there would be another major issue (his tie color! For god’s sake, it’s GREEN (or orange or fill in your own least fav color)! How dare he! Don’t you know that a [fill in the color] tie means he is [gay, a Muslim, black – oh, sorry, my bad] and we simply CANNOT have some of THAT right here in the good old US of KKKA! Heaven’s no.

    There is nothing Obama could (or should) do to placate these morons. His speaking, his beliefs, his record stands for itself.

  • Patriotism should not be confused with its emblems. Too often these have been turned into the tools of a nationalism that paradoxically divides rather than unites the people.

    When the flag wavers turn to the flag weary and say, “prove to us that you are American enough,” the implication is that even those who pass the test will remain less American than those requiring the test. The me-too patriot has capitulated to those who say: “It is we, not you, who understand what it means to be a real American.”

    America belongs to the American people. So when any particular group asserts a claim that they above others know what it means to be “real Americans”, they are in effect attempting to disavow the national identity of other citizens. What could be less patriotic than to abandon fellow Americans?

    Some folks are born, made to wave the flag, ouhhhh they red white and blue; and when the band plays Hail to the Chief, ouhhhh… they point the cannon at you.

  • If the lapel pin in NOT a big deal, then why doesn’t he just let Michelle pin the freakin’ thing on him and get rid of this distraction? These people are just not as smart as rumored.

  • I watched McSame in Memphis give his flip flopper speech about King yesterday, and hard as I looked, I didn’t see a lapel pin. How unpatriotic!

  • Obviously, what Obama needs to do, is wear a *large* flag pin.
    (it will start a flag pin race, much like the larger and larger SUV race among Republicans)

    the McSame campaign this fall, will undoubtedly be all about visiting flag factories,
    flag pins, photo ops featuring much singing of the National Anthem, America the Beautiful
    (hand over heart), visits with wounded OIF vets, and Vietnam/POW war-hero stories repeated over over …

  • A novel campaign concept for Obama:

    Stand up against the tyranny of China and its brutish treatment of tibet—boycott the wearing of Chinese-manufactured US flag lapel pins!

    Think it’ll work?

  • We need elected officials who are 100% American and who demand each American be 100% American, not hyphenated Americans. And, English is the American language. A person that is 100% American will learn and use the English language. The immigrants through Ellis Island learned the language.

  • I agree with those who suggest that if Obama were to put on a lapel pin now, it would be seen as hypocritical capitulation. To tell the truth, I can’t remember such a big to-do over these flag pins before the Bush administration stole its way into the White House anyway. George Washington certainly never wore an American flag pin in his…whatever they had then in place of lapels. Ditto Jefferson. Lincoln? Nope. I guess all those guys hated America, too.

    Ummm, Jim; Bush is 100% American. Not only is he not fluent in other languages, but he can barely speak English. That’s the mold for top executive material, what? If you were trying to make a point, I devoutly hope it wasn’t that Obama can’t speak English.

  • I’m convinced that if Obama were more of a flash-in-the-pan politician and wore his ‘patriotism’ on his sleeve and suddenly started wearing the lapel pin, there’d still be something ‘missing’ from his campaign, as according to Klein. In other words, nothing is missing other than a responsible press.

  • George Washington certainly never wore an American flag pin in his…whatever they had then in place of lapels. — Mark, @41

    *Much larger* lapels; coulda pinned a whole bridal bouquet to them, when they were open 🙂

  • When I saw Obama speak here in Pittsburgh, one of the things that he said that got the crowd to its feet and applauding long and hard was when he talked about teaching the constitution and how he intended to restore habeus corpus and follow the constitution and the principles the country was founded on.

    I found it pretty damn stirring in a patriotic sort of way to be surrounded by a couple thousand people cheering for that.

  • To presume that the 20 years of listening to Reverend Wright’s talks regarding hating whites, hatring other nationalities, anti-American crap that fell out of his mouth had no long term impact on Senator Obama is just that – a presumption. Psych101 will tell us that it is more than reaonable to take it that it did have an impact, and that living with Michelle Obama who has only just recently become proud of America…….well, I guess that is where Senator Obama’s problems are – it is dumb to think he became the only patriot with all the hatred around him. It is also his problem that his actions do not follow what he says….it is disjointed.

    So it has nothing to do with lapel pins, etc. It comes down to the company you keep and the judgment one shows. On both counts Senator Obama has poor judgment and certainly if the nominee will loose to McCain in the General Election. He just does not have what it takes to be a President, he does have what it takes to be a great preacher!

  • Jen…did Senator Obama happen to say HOW he was planning to do that? This is the same Senator Obama who during the debate said that the vote for the gal in Florida was wrong and being a Constitutional Law Professior he knew it was wrong but he voted for it anyway………..

    Bad judgment again….but HOW is he planning to do things. That is what I would be interested in knowing about. Anyone can say anything they want….I am interested in the plan to get it done.

  • Andy, why don’t you go listen or read the entire speech that caused all that flap. When they talk about context there’s a reason.

    God I hate half informed bigots.

  • MsJoanne. I did…and found it to be a great speech except for the hate mongering that went on. I believe there are other and more mature ways to express oneself than to resort to anti-American and racist comments. I believe most mature and educated people do. I guess that goes for your too though….it looks that you may be the bigot in all this to stoop to the name calling such as what Reverend Wright had done. You found him inspirational?

  • Anybody who runs for president, much less one who succeeds, puts themselves at great risk of being killed in the line of duty. This goes double for Obama, unfortunately. Isn’t putting one’s life on the line in the course of one’s job considered sufficiently serious—and in this case, patriotic—to remove any shadow of a doubt about one’s commitment to one’s country?

    I suppose there are exceptions to this rule. Like Dubya, for instance, who probably feels pretty sure that nobody would want to wax him since Cheney would then be president. I guess presidents who make sure to have somebody totally loathesome as a running mate might legitimately have their patriotism called into question.

    Hmm. That reminds me of Gore-Lieberman, now that I think about it. And here I thought Al was plenty patriotic. I’ll have to rethink that now…

  • Andy: Let’s reverse engineer your theory for a minute. Had you never learned of Rev. Wright, what in Obama’s behavior would lead you to ask,yourself, ‘wherever did he get those crazy ideas and bigoted attitudes?’ What has Obama ever done — on his own — to suggest he holds such views? I’ve seen nothing.

  • Andy — Isn’t it amazing that he can admit to making a mistake? Clinton has had a very hard time with that. Him, not as much.

    I’d say that restoring habeus corpus would be his first step (you know, since he mentioned it) and that going through all the bogus claims and opinions out of DOJ would be the next. I believe that he mentioned DOJ too, but I am not 100% sure, since I wasn’t taking notes.

    Re your other posts — can you show me the text in a sermon with what you consider racist remarks in it? I’ve gotta admit that I have yet to see them (though I admit that doesn’t mean they aren’t out there).

    You didn’t mention it, but I’ll spot you the HIV crap. It’s crap and goofy. (As an aside though, during the 80’s, President Reagan didn’t mention the word AIDS in public until 1985 and then *only* in response to a reporter’s question. Thousands had died by that point. I still think it’s silly to see conspiracy there, but when the head of state never even mentions the name of a disease killing thousands? Well, you can see how conspiracy theories might be stoked.)
    (http://www.aegis.com/topics/timeline/default.asp)

  • Patriotism is not a problem for a President, it never is. They, like our great President George W. Bush, are automatically the most patriotic American in the US of A. The problem is Americans who don’t blindly and obediently support this great Christian leader. They are the unpatriotic ones, and probably all Marxist Leftists anyways. Only unflinching obedience to the Bible and the Flag of the United States, and their President, are the marks of a true patriot.

  • Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it.
    – George Bernard Shaw:

  • I do not mean to exclude altogether the idea of patriotism. I know it exists, and I know it has done much in the present contest. But I will venture to assert, that a great and lasting war can never be supported on this principle alone. It must be aided by a prospect of interest, or some reward.
    – George Washington

  • Klien andf Goldberg are right: to many Americans a person is not patriotic unless they wave the symbols around and use the word in their speeches. It is really dumb of liberals to discount the importance of symbols. Of course flag pins don’t make a patriot, not do flags, or red white and blue on campaign materials. But the candidate and the campaign that fails to use patriotic symbols is making a mistake. Those symbols matter to people and they effect how people vote.

  • 44 years ago, this coming August 4, I had the unfortunate and disagreeable experience of learning the hard way that there is a difference between love of one’s country and loyalty to the regime.

    In my book, ever since, “patriotism” has been spelled with a small “p” and every last one of the Moth@#fu%&ing asswipes – be they a moron like Joe Klein or an asshole like Jonah Goldberg (neither of whom, BTW, “answered the call” when the opportunity was presented to them to do so and thereby prove their alleged patriotism) – who spell it “Patriotism” has ever been other than living proof of how right Samuel Johnson was when he said:

    “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.”

    Thank God Obama seems to know this, too. I’ve never met anyone with a flag pin in their lapel who wasn’t a brain-dead drooler or a damn hypocrite (or both).

  • Hmmm… Re one such person who has been accused of being unpatriotic… well, here’s his story:

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-oped0404wrightapr03,0,2263127,print.story

    In 1961, a young African-American man, after hearing President John F. Kennedy’s challenge to, “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country,” gave up his student deferment, left college in Virginia and voluntarily joined the Marines.

    In 1963, this man, having completed his two years of service in the Marines, volunteered again to become a Navy corpsman. (They provide medical assistance to the Marines as well as to Navy personnel.)

    The man did so well in corpsman school that he was the valedictorian and became a cardiopulmonary technician. Not surprisingly, he was assigned to the Navy’s premier medical facility, Bethesda Naval Hospital, as a member of the commander in chief’s medical team, and helped care for President Lyndon B. Johnson after his 1966 surgery. For his service on the team, which he left in 1967, the White House awarded him three letters of commendation.

    What is even more remarkable is that this man entered the Marines and Navy not many years after the two branches began to become integrated.

    While this young man was serving six years on active duty, Vice President Dick Cheney, who was born the same year as the Marine/sailor, received five deferments, four for being an undergraduate and graduate student and one for being a prospective father. Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, both five years younger than the African-American youth, used their student deferments to stay in college until 1968. Both then avoided going on active duty through family connections.

    Who is the real patriot? The young man who interrupted his studies to serve his country for six years or our three political leaders who beat the system? Are the patriots the people who actually sacrifice something or those who merely talk about their love of the country?

    ~~~~~
    Any guesses?

    If you answered Rev. Jeremiah Wright… ding, ding, ding… you’re a winner.

    There’s more at the link.

  • Why is it… that people like Andy (@ 46 & @ 48) and Dr (doctor??? meet Mary, the Professor!) Ted Baehr @ 52, not only have trouble with processing reality, but also with plain English? If it’s not spelling, it’s grammar; if it’s not grammar, it’s logic and sentence structure…

    WTF??? I’ve been told that Repubs have their own Wiki and, possibly, their own dictionary of the English language (where “black” means ” viciously angry”, etc). But now it seems that they have their own version of the entire English language too… I’ve always thought Bush was an exception (possibly learning-disabled and to be pitied rather than reviled) but I’m coming around to the idea that the whole Repub movement is brain-cell deficient…

  • libra, it’s their primary verbal code, the way that jingoistic superiority is their primary mental state. If you spell a higher percentage of words properly, and use grammar correctly, then you’re not one of “them”; if you don’t believe America’s the best country ever (because, as above, you happened to be born in it), then you’re not one of “them.”

    This is why people like Karen Hughes can go on trips to places like the Middle East and report back that, “Well, holy fuck, there are families and children and normal people there, too, just like us. Who knew?” (or, perhaps, a Condi-esque “Nobody could have anticipated…”)

    Liberals (and moderates) tend to know this stuff. Conservatives tend not only to be ignorant of these things, but also to be unable even to hear about them from a liberal, because then it’s obviously one-world socialist tripe from some dirty fuckin’ hippie with a radical anti-American agenda. Liberals are by definition wrong, to them; they’re not speaking the right language, whether it’s style *or* substance – and especially if it’s both – and especially if they can’t prove that it’s wrong (because deep down, they’re afraid *they’re* wrong, and they don’t want to adjust to some foreign concept, literally or figuratively). But if one of their own vouches for something, then it’s okay for them to realize it and accept it.

    Doesn’t mean they’ll do much about it, or apply it to anything else in their lives or thinking, but that’s part of why there’s so much overlap between the crappy thinkers and the crappy writers.

  • … either way, the subject has become unusually tiresome.Mbr/>

    I can agree wholeheartedly with that. CB, I think you underestimate or forget the truly staggering dopiness of Klein and his ilk (tAIO is right. Klein ain’t nothing but a concern troll and a pretty unimaginative one at that). The lunkheads to whom Corporate Media outlets give a microphone are in love with the idea that liberals and progressives are not “regular folks,” cannot speak the language of God and Country, and are just too flat elitest to understand – let alone hold / practice / revere values and ideals that Klein and Co attribute only to the heartland.

    As Roseanne Roseannadanna would say, “It’s always something.” John Kerry was judged to be too “French” to be an American president. Shortly after the tragedy that was the 2004 election, I remembered reading a column
    [ http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/articles/041122/22glo.htm ] by Gloria Borger in which she aserted that the problem with Democrats was that they just were not “country” (as in country music) enough. Lefties simply do not know how to relate to folks the way country singers like Toby Keith relates to folks. If Democrats could just be more like a country song; if only Dems really loved their children / their parents/ their country / their God /their dogs – and sang out about it – well they would be in a better place.. The implications of this ditsy Borger drivel are pretty much of a piece of the Joe Kleine “Obama’s Got a Patriotism Problem” proposition: Democrats can’t talk the talk, so it has to follow that they do not want or know how to walk the walk.

    It is sickening and stupid, but there you are. No matter how many of these arbitrary “patriotism” tests of the Right and Corporate Media that Obama might deign to try to pass, it will never be enough. Because, deep down, the Right, and its Corporate Media Concern Troll pals know that Dems / liberals do not really mean it when they wear a lapel pin, salute the flag, serve in the military, wish to protect legal principles such as habeus corpus and the 4th amendment, sing the national anthem, or try to support the troops by caring for them. No Dems don’t mean it because such things are the preserve of the pure, the “conservative” – the Republicans. Unusually tiresome indeed.

  • Okay Obama supporters…Call me a racist.
    I do happen to know that I have never awakened one morning in my life and consciously thought how I could make a black person’s life miserable. I am sure there is not a black person in this world that has given a thought to how they could help my life become better or make my life miserable. Look, we are all people. Stop the whinning. I am not supporting Obama because he is not qualified. Number two, I can’t get past the comments that his wife and Rev. Wright have made. Those two are very racist against me. I am tired of apologizing for being white and thinking I have to “pay up” to blacks for something I did not do. Obama’s campaign is taking advantage of this “guilt” that they are placing on people so that we SHOULD vote for Obama. Forget it!

  • YOU MIGHT BE AN IDIOT:-)

    If you think Barack Obama with little or no experience would be better than Hillary Clinton with 35 years experience.

    You Might Be An Idiot!

    If you think that Obama with no experience can fix an economy on the verge of collapse better than Hillary Clinton. Whose 😉 husband (Bill Clinton) led the greatest economic expansion, and prosperity in American history.

    You Might Be An Idiot!

    If you think that Obama with no experience fighting for universal health care can get it for you better than Hillary Clinton. Who anticipated this current health care crisis back in 1993, and fought a pitched battle against overwhelming odds to get universal health care for all the American people.

    You Might Be An Idiot!

    If you think that Obama with no experience can manage, and get us out of two wars better than Hillary Clinton. Whose 😉 husband (Bill Clinton) went to war only when he was convinced that he absolutely had to. Then completed the mission in record time against a nuclear power. AND DID NOT LOSE THE LIFE OF A SINGLE AMERICAN SOLDIER. NOT ONE!

    You Might Be An Idiot!

    If you think that Obama with no experience saving the environment is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose 😉 husband (Bill Clinton) left office with the greatest amount of environmental cleanup, and protections in American history.

    You Might Be An Idiot!

    If you think that Obama with little or no education experience is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose 😉 husband (Bill Clinton) made higher education affordable for every American. And created higher job demand and starting salary’s than they had ever been before or since.

    You Might Be An Idiot!

    If you think that Obama with no experience will be better than Hillary Clinton who spent 8 years at the right hand of President Bill Clinton. Who is already on record as one of the greatest Presidents in American history.

    You Might Be An Idiot!

    If you think that you can change the way Washington works with pretty speeches from Obama, rather than with the experience, and political expertise of two master politicians ON YOUR SIDE like Hillary and Bill Clinton..

    You Might Be An Idiot!

    If you think all those Republicans voting for Obama in the Democratic primaries, and caucuses are doing so because they think he is a stronger Democratic candidate than Hillary Clinton. 🙂

    Best regards

    jacksmith…

    p.s. You Might Be An Idiot!

    If you don’t know that the huge amounts of money funding the Obama campaign to defeat Hillary Clinton is coming in from the insurance, and medical industry, that has been ripping you off, and killing you and your children. And denying you, and your loved ones the life saving medical care you needed. All just so they can make more huge immoral profits for them-selves off of your suffering…

  • DON’T BE DUPED !!!

    Large numbers of Republicans have been voting for Barack Obama in the DEMOCRATIC primaries, and caucuses from early on. Because they feel he would be a weaker opponent against John McCain. And because they feel that a Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama ticket would be unbeatable. And also because with a Clinton and Obama ticket you are almost 100% certain to get quality, affordable universal health care very soon.

    But first, all of you have to make certain that Hillary Clinton takes the democratic nomination and then the Whitehouse. NOW! is the time. THIS! is the moment you have all been working, and waiting for. You can do this America. “Carpe diem” (harvest the day).

    I think Hillary Clinton see’s a beautiful world of plenty for all. She is a woman, and a mother. And it’s time America. Do this for your-selves, and your children’s future. You will have to work together on this and be aggressive, relentless, and creative. Americans face an even worse catastrophe ahead than the one you are living through now.

    You see, the medical and insurance industry mostly support the republicans with the money they ripped off from you. And they don’t want you to have quality, affordable universal health care. They want to be able to continue to rip you off, and kill you and your children by continuing to deny you life saving medical care that you have already paid for. So they can continue to make more immoral profits for them-selves.

    Hillary Clinton has actually won by much larger margins than the vote totals showed. And lost by much smaller vote margins than the vote totals showed. Her delegate count is actually much higher than it shows. And higher than Obama’s. She also leads in the electoral college numbers that you must win to become President in the November national election. HILLARY CLINTON IS ALREADY THE TRUE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE!

    As much as 30% of Obama’s primary, and caucus votes are Republicans trying to choose the weakest democratic candidate for McCain to run against. These Republicans have been gaming the caucuses where it is easier to vote cheat. This is why Obama has not been able to win the BIG! states primaries. Even with Republican vote cheating help.

    Hillary Clinton has been OUT MANNED! OUT GUNNED! and OUT SPENT! 4 and 5 to 1. Yet Obama has only been able to manage a very tenuous, and questionable tie with Hillary Clinton.

    If Obama is the democratic nominee for the national election in November he will be slaughtered. Because the Republican vote cheating help will suddenly evaporate. All of this vote fraud and republican manipulation has made Obama falsely look like a much stronger candidate than he really is. YOUNG PEOPLE. DON’T BE DUPED! Think about it. You have the most to lose.

    The democratic party needs to fix this outrage. I suggest a Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama ticket. Everyone needs to throw all your support to Hillary Clinton NOW! So you can end this outrage against YOU the voter, and against democracy.

    I think Barack Obama has a once in a life time chance to make the ultimate historic gesture for unity, and change in America by accepting Hillary Clinton’s offer as running mate. Such an act now would for ever seal Barack Obama’s place at the top of the list of Americas all time great leaders, and unifiers for all of history.

    The democratic party, and the super-delegates have a decision to make. Are the democrats, and the democratic party going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee to fight for the American people. Or are the republicans going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee through vote fraud, and gaming the DEMOCRATIC party primaries, and caucuses.

    Fortunately the Clinton’s have been able to hold on against this fraudulent outrage with those repeated dramatic comebacks of Hillary Clinton’s. Only the Clinton’s are that resourceful, and strong. Hillary Clinton is your NOMINEE. They are the best I have ever seen.

    “This is not a game” (Hillary Clinton)

    Sincerely

    jacksmith…

  • The whole issue of labeling someone a “Patriot” or not has become tiresome rhetoric reminscent of Nazi Germany and Communist Russia. It is insulting. He has been vetted by patriots and plebians alike. They have been hitting him on his name, his Pastor, his wife and yet he continues to keep going- why , because he is adept at not getting sucked into that 5th grader “I know you are but what am I ” playground logic which the Rovian tacticians seem to be good at but not much else.
    America is tired of that crap, and we want change. Change from the anorexic blonde harridans, change from the overfed triple-chinned drug-shopping “cigar” smokers.
    The regurgitation of Republican talking points is old. “Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice….won’t get fooled again”

    Bush ’00- strike one
    Bush ’04 – strike two
    ? If McCain gets up at bat America strikes out,

  • Ignore jacksmith (64 & 65). He posts the same comments all over the ‘sphere. Just google any distinctive word string and you’ll find a one-man-or-woman copy-and-paste machine.

    As for joanie “call me a racist” @ 63… if no one responds to you it’s most likely because one doesn’t know where to begin.

  • Joanie says: I do happen to know that I have never awakened one morning in my life and consciously thought how I could make a black person’s life miserable.

    Kudos to you.

    I am sure there is not a black person in this world that has given a thought to how they could help my life become better or make my life miserable.

    Huh. Well, since my [white] kids go to schools that are predominantly African-American and have had many black teachers and principals, I’m happy to say that I know there are lots of black people right here in my very own community that have given a lot of thought to making my life better. So sorry you haven’t had that experience. It is possible to seek experiences like that out, if you wanted. There are many outreach programs at Obama’s church that would be delighted with more volunteers, I’m sure. And yes, there are white people in the church too.

    In fact, I’m switching my youngest from a nearly “racially balanced” school with a white principal to a far less balanced school with higher “free and reduced lunch” levels; same curriculum, but I like the feel of the school and the special programs better, not to mention the fact that the new principal (black) and I share more feelings about how children should be treated and educated.

    Look, we are all people. Stop the whinning. I am not supporting Obama because he is not qualified.

    We can’t help it, we want to keep on winning.

    Number two, I can’t get past the comments that his wife and Rev. Wright have made. Those two are very racist against me.

    I’m betting they don’t even know you.

    How exactly are they racist against you? You do realize that pointing out racism isn’t racist, right? And that people pointing out a problem doesn’t mean that they think you personally are at fault, right?

    I mean, I rant and rave about education a lot, but I really don’t think the people I talk to feel personally attacked by me — nor do they think I hold them personally responsible. Even the administrators I talk to know that we are talking about a problem bigger than any of us.

    And thus endeth my likely to be entirely useless post of the day.

  • This “patriotism” issue is one of those weird Republican attempts to divert attention from the the mess Bush-Cheney has made. The fact is the party of “patriotism and “trust us” xenophobia has conducted a foreign and military policy that is both aggressive and incompetent, no mean feat when combined. By the weird logic of permanent McCarthyism it is when your incompetence is most visible and your blunders most evident, that you have to circle the wagons and take loyalty oaths. Ask Mugabe how that works. Obama is right to ignore this stuff.

  • Mr. Obama,

    Some folks will never change, even if they want to …. as a black man in america, only god can help you!

    Yvonne

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