The premature scuttlebutt about a Clinton departure

It’s fair to say that most neutral observers, looking at the state of the Democratic race objectively, would agree that Barack Obama has become the front runner for the nomination. It’s hardly a done deal, but given the circumstances, the smart money is on the senator from Illinois.

That said, I think the talk about a Clinton withdrawal is premature, and at this point, kind of silly. This report was on the front page of the Wall Street Journal today.

Already some Clinton associates have begun lobbying for her early exit if she loses the primary by a big margin, as polls suggest she could. Several Senate colleagues who have sat on the fence are now in talks with Obama advisers about endorsing the freshman Illinois senator over his more experienced colleague.

Despite raising more than $100 million, Sen. Clinton also faces financial worries as contributions have begun to slacken. But she vows to fight on: Her campaign will pivot to focus more heavily on “Super Tuesday” Feb. 5, when 21 states vote. “We are going all the way to the convention,” Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson said.

Still, the maneuverings marked an extraordinary turn, and underscored the power of small, early-voting states to scramble all bets — especially in a year when the states’ contests are so closely scheduled. Sen. Clinton until now continued to hold wide leads in national polls; a new Gallup poll has her slipping into a dead heat. Her original campaign strategy, aimed at positioning her as the inevitable nominee who would capture the early states and wrap up the nomination before February, is now in shambles.

Well, yes, that’s true. “Inevitability” now looks pretty ridiculous, and counting on New Hampshire as a “firewall” was a mistake. She’s stumbled in Iowa, is likely to lose in New Hampshire, and according to the WSJ report, the campaign is “considering effectively ceding South Carolina.” No candidate, in either party, has won the first three big contests and gone on to lose the nomination. It would be, clearly, an incredibly difficult task for Clinton to overcome this kind of deficit.

But I still think talk of her departure is hasty.

Clinton, oddly enough, seems to have inadvertently stumbled into Rudy Giuliani’s campaign strategy: wait for Feb. 5 and see what happens. The polls in some of those states are, at this point, pretty unreliable, but there’s at least some evidence that Clinton can still compete in major contests like New York and California. If that’s true, why drop out a month beforehand?

Some indicators to keep an eye on:

* Money — Clinton has amassed quite a war chest. As long as she has resources, she’ll be competitive. If she starts struggling with fundraising, it’s a sign to wrap things up.

* Endorsements — Only 12 of the Senate’s 50 Democrats have endorsed anyone. If the dam breaks, and the senators start backing Obama, she’ll face enormous pressure to take one for the team. Until then, she’ll wait. (Most notably, watch what Al Gore and John Kerry do.)

* Polls — Clinton is likely to largely skip South Carolina because the proverbial writing is on the wall, but if she has a chance of winning states like New York and California, she has no incentive to end the contest. If the polls shift dramatically, she won’t want to embarrass herself. Until then, she’ll wait.

* Career prospects — Unlike John Edwards, who probably won’t seek public office again, Clinton has a future (and a day job) to worry about. If a prolonged campaign, featuring one defeat after another, is likely to undermine her standing in the Senate, that would be a strong incentive to stand down, but there’s no evidence she’s anywhere near that point.

Greg Sargent talked to one Clinton advisor yesterday, and learned that the campaign is worried about “long-term damage.”

“People who are close to Hillary personally are worried about what this is doing to her, what it might do to her career,” the adviser says. “This is about protecting her future. That’s the way it’s being presented. You have a number who are saying to her, `Consider the Senate career.’

“They’re worried about the way the media might characterize her — a woman being on the attack, that kind of thing,” the adviser continued. “There’s a real debate going on within the campaign.”

We’ll see how that debate unfolds. But in the meantime, it’s hard to imagine Clinton bowing out after just two contests, no matter the margin.

Stay tuned.

What I find amazing is that there is talk of HRC dropping out, but not Edwards. If the polls are correct, he will be a rather distant third in NH – arguably losing ground on HRC, from their dead heat for 2nd in Iowa. HRC has more money than Edwards, and to my knowledge is not polling behind him in any of the Feb 5 states. So unless he is staying in to audition for Obama’s VP, it is hard to see any real reason why she would/should drop out before Edwards.

Maybe she’s supposed to go tend to the womens work while Johnny gets to stay out late with the boys?

  • Much as I like Obama, I have to agree that it is too early to count Clinton out…yet. But if she loses all three of the early states it will be a very tough sell for her to convince the voters in the bigger states to vote for her.

    That said, this has been one of the more unusual presidential primaries I can remember. Perhaps normal conventions don’t apply.

    As they say in sports, that’s why they play the game. In other words, even the worst team in the league can beat the best under the right circumstances. And Clinton is FAR from the worst the Democrats have to offer.

  • If Hillary loses, she could become the “Al Gore” of the Senate and make important contributions. (And an important adviser to Obama. :-))

  • This is ridiculous. President Bush has already said that Hillary is going to win the Dem nomination and I have complete faith in our Commander-in-Chief. Say what you will about the guy, his predictions are always spot-on…except for when they’re not. But hey, you can’t win them all, huh.

  • What I thought was more significant from that article was the note about the Culinary Workers union possibly endorsing Obama, and the strong implication that this would win him Nevada. I’d always figured that Clinton would hold on in Nevada and at least go into Ginormous Tuesday with one win to boast on. But if Obama is 4 for 4 in the early contests (SC is pretty much acknowledged as a lock for him now), it becomes hard to see how he loses absent some horrible meltdown.

    That said, I hope at least one of Clinton and Edwards (Edwards would be my strong preference) stays in–not to malign or smear Obama but to keep him sharp and stand ready to step in if, in fact, he does collapse. Just as I didn’t want to see Sen. Clinton coronated, I don’t want to see Obama waltz away totally unchallenged.

  • there’s at least some evidence that Clinton can still compete in major contests like New York and California.

    She certainly can compete, but she won’t win, because the trend is not her friend. Given the obvious momentum, I think Obama will blow her away.

    Although he’s certainly not perfect, there’s nothing seriously wrong with Obama. Hillary’s strongest suits were her “inevitability” and her campaign smarts, and those aren’t playing anymore. All she can do now is hope for Obama to screw up badly enough to let her into the race again, or go negative, and she’s smart enough to realize that going negative is a loser unless she has something of substance, not crap like a robocall that went 8 seconds past a time limit.

  • Steve…

    I believe we are seeing the end of the Clinton candidacy TODAY, not on February 5, and here’s the reason why: Voter Turnout! The early indications have been turnout is exceedingly heavy with anecdotal evidence pointing to these new voters going for Obama.

    We’ve read for months that many state Democratic operatives have been worried about what a Hillary-led ticket might mean to all the other Dems having to run downticket. Obama is bringing multitudes into his coalition, which is the DEMOCRATIC PARTY, and all Hillary and Bill have been doing is trying to throw water on this inferno by questioning everything about him other than his choice in underwear. I feel the Party will decide TONIGHT that it can no longer afford the Clinton’s personal ambitions to be more important than the emerging tsunami of Democratic voters brought to the party by Obama. The money doesn’t matter, nor does the debate. If the Party allows the Clinton’s continual sniping of Obama they will do so at great risk to every Democrat chomping at the bit for an inspirational ride on the Obama coattails. Someone needs to remind the Clinton’s the reason Obama is able to turn “flowery words” into substantive change is because he marshalls the full force of the majority behind him first. This is just something that Hillary isn’t going to be able to do if she campaigns until 2108. Its not her fault, but it certainly isn’t her gift, while it most definitely is Obama’s!

  • What I find amazing is that there is talk of HRC dropping out, but not Edwards. -zeitgeist

    I think it’s mostly because, as far as traditional media was concerned, Edwards was never really in the race to begin with. For them, he was just a gnat who spent to much on a haircut and occasionally said something about one of the annointed front-runners.

    He was also never the inevitable candidate. That alone makes Hillary’s slide a better story for infotainment. She’s the media’s modern day Julius Caesar, and the media who helped build her up as the inevitable candidate is Brutus, stabbing her in the back.

    I think it’s premature to talk of her bowing out now, as well, but if NH is a blowout as well as South Carolina, how much will it affect the polling in the Super Tuesday states?

  • all Hillary and Bill have been doing is trying to throw water on this inferno by questioning everything about him other than his choice in underwear.

    They’re saving that question for Romney. 🙂

  • Has an unsuccessful presidential bid ever hurt anyone else’s Senate career? Chris Dodd? Joe Biden? Ted Kennedy? Joe Lieberman? John Kerry? Why would Hillary’s post-campaign career be any different?

    All this talk is really dumb. Votes have yet to be counted in the first state primary. Hillary has tons of money left. How can she be finished?

  • Re: Dale @ #3
    If Hillary loses, she could become the “Al Gore” of the Senate and make important contributions. (And an important adviser to Obama. :-))

    Yea, like maybe she can vote for a Patriot Act part III or the repeal of the Bill of Rights or maybe even another unconstitutional AUMF (if we’re lucky). That would be great!

  • >>Hillary has tons of money left. How can she be finished?

    I believe Steve Forbes answered that question for you.
    End of the day, we don’t count money.

  • Re: JKap @ #12
    Yea, like maybe she can vote for a Patriot Act part III or the repeal of the Bill of Rights or maybe even another unconstitutional AUMF (if we’re lucky). That would be great!

    Hey, don’t go negative. 🙂

  • Greg Sargent talked to one Clinton advisor yesterday, and learned that the campaign is worried about “long-term damage.”

    This is not a way to run a campaign. She has to have more control over them. This behavior from her campaign is something I would expect from 12 year old kids, not anyone with any more sophistication.

  • RacerX –

    Although he’s certainly not perfect, there’s nothing seriously wrong with Obama.

    There’s a bit more than that. There is nothing policy-wise about Obama that would be unpalatable for someone supporting Clinton to worry about supporting – unless the person was supporting Clinton specifically because of her hawkish foreign policy (which would surprise me – but I guess it’s possible). That means that as Obama looks more and more like a winner, and Clinton more and more like a loser, switching support to Obama is mostly a no brainer.

    Edwards supporters might be less likely to see Obama as a great alternative to their chosen candidate, but Obama and Clinton line up policy-wise well enough on domestic issues that if Obama looks like a winner, Obama will get the support.

    Clinton needs this win in New Hampshire – or at the very least she needs to hold Obama to a single digit lead and beat Edwards. If she manages that she could still turn it around. But if she doesn’t, and if she’s prematurely conceding S.C. to Edwards and Obama, then the narrative is going to beat her into the ground and by Feb. 5th she’ll look like such a loser that she won’t even win NY or Cali.

  • What I’m hearing here and there is that it may end up being a money problem – that as her support drops off, she will have an increasingly difficult time raising the kind of money that has allowed her to spend at the same level as Obama – and the money, I’m sure is just pouring in for him.

    I would like them all to stay in it – there may be a newly-anointed “inevitable” nominee, but it isn’t over yet. And, I think the challenge from competitors is good – no sense in the inevtible candidate getting too complacent – because regardless of who the nominee is, the GOP is going to wage a relentlessly negative and dirty campaign. And given that we still have to worry about the mechanics of voting, the chances that voter ID issues could make a difference, I think the longer the competition goes, the better.

  • If Hillary does lose the the race for the nomination, she could return to the Senate and do great things. Like Teddy Kennedy – the “Lion of the Senate – who bounced back from losing the nomination in 1980. (Which he may not have really wanted, anyway), I’d love to see her become a force – and a possible legend – in the Senate.

  • JKap: “Yea, like maybe she can vote for a Patriot Act part III or the repeal of the Bill of Rights or maybe even another unconstitutional AUMF (if we’re lucky). That would be great!”

    Or, just maybe, a loss would free her from the constraints placed by our painfully misogynistic society on a woman with presidential ambitions (see a zillion posts everywhere yesterday) and finally allow the better angels of her nature turn her into the force for progressive policies that she is perfectly able to be.

    Diarist davefromqueens at dKOS nailed Hillary’s predicament perfectly well yesterday:

    “I saw Hillary run for the Senate in 2000. New Yorkers basically drafted her and supported her through thick and thin. Back then she ran a terrific campaign based on the issues with positive rhetoric and ended up beating a faux moderate congressman named Rick Lazio by ten points. She was charming, endearing, and went out and earned votes. She earned mine. If you had asked me on November 1, 2000 who my first choice for President would have been in 2008, I would have told you Hillary Clinton.

    But the Hillary of 2008 is not the Hillary of 2000. That’s why I won’t support her in the primary.

    Somewhere along the line, Hillary made a decision to abandon some of her core principles and cast votes not based on her principles but based on what she thought would make her “more electable” in 2008. Her votes on Iraq and Iran were part of the old Washington game of giving yourself political cover by having votes on all side of an issue so you can argue one way or the other depending on which way the wind was blowing x number of years down the road. Her capitulation to the same HMOs that ran ads against her in 1993 was designed to raise money for a presidential run. Somewhere inside of her I know she hates herself for doing this because she genuinely knows better and IS better. Her desire to please the Washington Cocktail Party Elitists overtook her common sense. Gore hated himself for doing this prior to 2000 before his epiphany and John Edwards hated himself for doing this in 2002 and 2003 before he too had a genuine inner transformation. Both men realize that such a strategy keeps tens of millions of Democratic voters home and gives Republicans narrow wins or close losses.”

    A talented and highly capable Hillary Clinton in the Senate finally freed to pursue her progressive beliefs could be a real force for change, especially with a Dem president. If she does, in fact, lose the race I would love to see that happen.

  • When Hillary Clinton started channeling Rudy Giuliani; “I don’t think it was by accident that Al Qaeda decided to test the new prime minister,” she said. “They watch our elections as closely as we do, maybe more closely than some of our fellows citizens do…. Let’s not forget you’re hiring a president not just to do what a candidate says during the election, you want a president to be there when the chips are down.” I knew that her campaign was walking dead.

    Now she’s channeling Giuliani’s strategy as well. Stick a fork in her.

  • Anne

    I would like them all to stay in it – there may be a newly-anointed “inevitable” nominee, but it isn’t over yet. And, I think the challenge from competitors is good

    I agree to a point – “challenge” is good, but Clinton going negative on Obama and Edwards going negative on Clinton at some point becomes more harmful than helpful.

  • hey zeitgeist, weren’t a lot of people saying Edwards was going to drop out awhile back?

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0307/3263.html

    I think he’s going to stay in it all the way because he’s pushing from the left. Hillary is pushing from the right of Obama (if there’s much difference at all) so she’s not really adding anything to the debate, is she? I hope Edwards does well, because we need the Overton Window going left, and fast.

  • Will Senator Clinton really stick it out for four more years in the Senate when the only reason she is in the Senate was so she could run for President.

    She will probably quit and try to find some other way to rehabilitate her legacy much in the mode of Al Gore.

  • Hillary has the experience to step right into Bush’s shoes and keep those wars of imperial aggression going, and what the heck, may be even bomb Iran…. Keep fascism alive. Keep health care corporate. Heil Hill.

  • zeitgeist – I completely agree, and I think this is as much a function of how long these people have been at this as anything else. I think that’s why I liked the debate the other night, because for the most part, it was substantive and adult and well worth listening to. For a change, we could tune out the fluff of cackles and haircuts and TMZ-style content. For people who are just now engaging – as opposed to those of us who have been mainlining this stuff forever – it had to have been helpful to see them in that format. The more of that we could have, the better.

  • We’re in the bottom of the first inning and people are speculating how the rest of the game will go? Sorry. Speculation might be cheap entertainment or some, but I wouldn’t take it seriously at this point.

  • Count me as another Obama supporter who doesn’t want to see Hillary drop out. In fact, there’s a part of me that hopes Obama doesn’t win by too much today, just so there can be enough of a “surprise” for Hillary to keep going. My fear is repeating 2004: I always felt the stampede to Kerry after Iowa meant that later primary voters didn’t really take a critical look at him; they just jumped on the bandwagon. Even though I’m glad to see Obama with such a head of steam, and even though he is OBVIOUSLY no John Kerry, I think he could only benefit from another month of competition. It will force him to sharpen his arguments, address questions about his inexperience (which is what Hillary will spend the whole time hitting him on) and give him a taste of what the general election will be like. Remember, one of the early raps on Obama was that, other than the Illinois Senate primary, he’d never really won a contested race (and even there, one of his main competitors imploded). Once the nomination is decided, the media will start casting around for new storylines, and that’s certainly one they’ll pick up, especially if the primary season turns into a post-Iowa coronation.

    Also, I don’t think any of us really knows what Feb. 5 will be like. We’ve had Super Tuesdays before, but never a Super-Duper Tuesday like this one, and these big states like NY and CA have never voted so early. Since anything could happen, I think Hillary would be a fool to pull out before then.

    Finally, I don’t get how staying in the race does any long-term harm to Hillary’s career. Yes, if she completely sheds her dignity in a series of desperate attacks (like Giuliani-esque scare tactics), people may think less of her. But the likelihood is that she’ll go back to her safe Senate seat and continue to be an influential figure, regardless of whether she campaigns for another day, another week or another month.

  • To me the rumor that Hillary will quit is like the comments about her imaginary tears – she’s a girl and doesn’t know how to play hard. Given that the Republicans have been attacking her relentlessly for decades, she knows how to play hard.

    Those who think she became a senator just to run for president also thought that Al Gore and Jimmy Carter would retire from public life to make money.

  • Like Ted Kennedy, who would have been a terrible President but has become a wonderful Senator, Hillary should look forward to becoming the Lioness of the Senate. She’s actually good at that sort of thing, and would have a damn good chance – with a generational shift away from Republican stupidity – of being able to help craft the victory of every policy she has ever favored.

  • Frankly I would prefer to see it a 2 person race rather than a three, sooner rather than later. And hopefully that would be O and E…but think it more likely to be O and C.

    I fear that a triangulation of votes may enhance outside influences at delegate time.

  • beep52 said: We’re in the bottom of the first inning and people are speculating how the rest of the game will go? Sorry. Speculation might be cheap entertainment or some, but I wouldn’t take it seriously at this point.

    Good point. Sometimes all this analysis (guessing) reminds me of the old joke: Two psychiatrists pass each other in the hall. Each says hello. Each thinks as they walk away, “I wonder what he meant by that?”

    I agree with the consensus that continued competition is important for the Dem primaries. The Super-Duper Tuesday, as Zorro calls it, is the big unknown factor this year. If we can keep the pundits from prematurely selecting a winner for everyone else, then that Tuesday make shake things up.

  • I am sad that so many people are so happy about someone going down. What I don’t understand is why? Why is there so much hatred towards Hilary? Who will most of you ‘hate” next?

  • Hillary shouldn’t quit.

    Tomorrow she should fire the idiots on her team who are talking to the press about quiting (or protecting her future), just to cut costs and streamline the campaign for the next month. 😉

    And she should really stop ‘attacking’ Obama’s inexperience. Focus on her own yes, and quote that Richardson line that experience is not lepersy.

    And she should stay in the hunt for South Carolina. Let them know she still wants their votes.

  • I wonder why no one has challenged Hilary Clinton claim to be the most experienced candidate. The sum total of her electoral experience is 6-years in the Senate as compared to Obama’s four. Other than that she’s as qualified to be President as Mamie Eisenhower or Pat Nixon.

  • This might take a wee bit, so please bear with me on the “long-windedness” of the reply.

    I am seeing several early indicators that the Clinton campaign is in serious trouble. The first indicator is that a portion of her staff have apparently conceded the fact; they were all wrapped up in the perpetual energy of the Clinton machine—the “inevitability;” the “juggernaut;” the “blitzkrieg” moment where all opposition was predicted to crumble in the early stages. leading to an overture-esque triumphal march into the convention, and on to the WH. Now, they’re scrambling like ants, trying to hold back a flash flood on biblical proportions from reaching the anthill. In short, they’ve discovered what it’s like to be just one fish in a vast ocean—and not the only fish.

    A second indicator is the little-mentioned fact that most of her money is coming from the “established” Dem machine—and that to increase funding at this point to tackle a wholly-unimagined threat would place a large percentage of those “machine cogs” in harm’s way. One case in point is the AFSCME debacle; several of the local branches in Ohio are bluntly refusing to send more money into the national coffers, choosing instead to tell their members to donate directly to the candidates of their choice. If this matrix duplicates itself on a national level, the “big Union machine” will become untenable for Clinton.

    Third on the list is the introduction of new voters on a massive level—and voters who normally avoid primaries in general. All indicators are that these “unpredictable votes” are flocking, en masse, toward the Obama banner. This is a phenomenon that can neither be diverted nor impeded; rather, it can only be weathered—ridden out like a storm at sea or a hurricane on the coast. However—unlike those storms—there is no “rebuilding” once the damage is done. A vote, once cast and counted, is not a thing that can be undone merely by bringing in some plywood, a few bricks, and a stick or two of furniture. Bluntly put, there is no “firewall” to serve as a watertight bulkhead or levee in this case. A breach of such tsunamic magnitude has the potential to be permanently disabling.

    Fourth is the notion that “we can wait until February 5th.” Such a strategy effectively tells the people of New Hampshire that their votes are meaningless—and it also says “I can win without you.” That will decimate her support, not only in NH, but also Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, and Florida. The fact that “the Party apparatchiks” (to which Clinton has been inexorably bound) have revoked the validity of the Michigan and Florida delegations will do nothing for a Dem candidate beyond the convention—because those states will vote against the status quo with their feet, come November. There will be those within the Party who see this—and they, too, will be among those who take the early steps to shut down the Clinton campaign, while there’s still an opportunity to do so in a graceful manner.

    February 5th also plays out for a second reason as to the projected demise of the Clinton campaign. Her staff’s biggest selling point is that Hillary can win with the big-vote states of California and New York. Here’s my reasoning—to tell everyone who votes on February 5th that you only need the delegates from a CA/NY combination, out of the total delegates available on that one given day, is beyond ludicrous. It is pure, political insanity. California and New York, combined, will represent less than ONE-EIGHTH the total number of delegates available on that day alone. The pomposity of such a suggestion also negates any measure of respect for the other 22 events on “Super Duper Day”—Alabama, Alaska, American Samoa, Arizona, Arkansas (as if running away to NY did the Clintons any favors in THAT state), Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, the “Democrats Abroad” primary, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Missouri, New jersey, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Tennessee, and Utah—each just brimming with potential voters who see a very real difference between “status quo” and “change.”

    I won’t bother to name the ten events in February that follow—or the 6 in March—or even the 10 that come in April, May, or June. The point is that her campaign has openly thrown its eggs into a very small basket—and that basket is beginning to look rather weak, given all the eggs that could fall through the bottom. Omelets do not do well on the grocery shelf.

    Finally, the stone-skipping exercise of her campaign—rapid changes in strategy to deal with an unpredicted threat without thinking through those changes prior to implementation, coupled with dodging back to tactics that have been historically dis-proven in similar contests—demonstrates a sense of administrative “flightiness.” This does not bode well for the “proven experience and abilities” of a presidential candidate. It’s a guaranteed smack-down for a village council candidate. How can it be any different for HRC?

    Is she toast yet? Nope—but the bread is already in the toaster, the lever’s been pushed down, and those little wire elements are starting to look awfully red right now.

    Pass the strawberry jam, please….

  • Are any of the Democrats giving any thought to the fact that if Obama and McCain become the candidates, McCain will win and we will have another Republican administration. I thought everyone wanted change!

  • Re #38,

    Yep, I’d say Clinton’s campaign is floundering. I wonder if the purge on Wednesday will get out the incompetents and hangers-on who just hoped for a job in January 2009.

    Re #39,

    Sorry, I don’t buy for a second that idea that Obama will necessarily lose to McCain.

    And I kind of hope that even McCain would be a change from the last seven years.

  • The very idea that “an Obama nomination will guarantee a GOPer victory in November” is one of the reasons HRC is getting hes a$$ whipped right now. I think that frame will work just as well in November as it is in NH today….

  • I agree with Lance. McCain may be the strongest GOP general-election candidate (though I have my doubts), but for all his faults, there is an element of sanity to him that, win or lose, would be good for both the GOP and the country. I for one don’t want to see the Republicans put forth their craziest candidate, just because he’d be easy to beat. Remember, extremist candidates who lose may be followed by slightly-less-extremist candidates who win (see Goldwater/Nixon). Or they may just win themselves (Reagan, W).

    We have a two-party system in this country, and it’s in everyone’s interest that one of those parties not be run by a bunch of raving lunatics (I know, I know, too late. Still, McCain seems the most likely to start inching the Republicans back to reality.)

    Anyway, the way this year is shaping up, being the most electable GOP candidate is kinda like being the smartest Bush appointee at DOJ.

  • To Louise @ 39:

    McCain has a lot of vulnerabilities that any smart Democratic campaign will be able to exploit–his embrace of Bush starting in 2003 the first and foremost, but his many other episodes of dishonesty and opportunism (helpfully chronicled by CB among others) as well. Nor does the generational contrast play out well for him at all.

    I think he’s both the most electable of the Republicans (with the caveat that Zorro @42 mentioned) and probably the least frightening… but he’d still need to see his opponent fall apart.

    As to Clinton’s money problems, over the weekend I was posting on another site with a Clinton supporter who also posts here, and got to looking at the opensecrets.org data on how Clinton and Obama have funded their campaigns. One interesting nugget is that 37 percent of Clinton’s total fundraising take has come from people who have given $4600–in other words, the maxed-out. These are the people to whom, theoretically, Bill et al could appeal to for one last stand–but those most open to that appeal probably have given already, and it’s hard to fathom why others would want to throw good money after an unlikely outcome at this point.

    So that aspect of it could be real. And this doesn’t seem like an operation that suddenly could shift to “lean and mean.”

  • Is there any merit to my thought that it would be good for Obama that Hillary remains as long as possible in the race……perhaps make him a better campaigner for general election? (here, today at this moment assume he goes on to get the nomination)

  • beth said: “Is there any merit to my thought that it would be good for Obama that Hillary remains as long as possible in the race……perhaps make him a better campaigner for general election? (here, today at this moment assume he goes on to get the nomination).”

    Is there any merit to the belief we anointed Kerry a bit too soon?

    Yes Beth, I’d say you have a good case to make.

  • The notion that OBAMA will lose the general and that HRC is a stronger candidate is perposterous when he is the only candidate pulling DEMOCRATS, REPUBLICANS & INDEPENDENTS. This is a fiction being spread by pro Clinton forces who do not have enough bodies to deliver to the polls so they fear monger that the other guy is unqualified, a loser, a speculative bet and that Republicans are propping him up to beat him. McCain, if he does not plummet like a rock after New Hampshire and goes on to the nomination will lose in LANDSLIDE. I believe that Goldwater was a positive force who history looks at differently. But I can imagine a campaign against McCain playing him singing “Bomb Bomb Iran”—In your gutts you know he’s nuts.

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