There will be no JFK moment

National Journal conducts a weekly “Insider’s Poll,” which, as the name implies, questions DC players about political stories of the day. As the WSJ noted, the poll is “generally a good reflection of conventional wisdom among strategists, lobbyists, consultants, pollsters and party operatives inside the Beltway.”

This week’s survey asked insiders: “Does Mitt Romney need to address the issue of his religious faith the way that John F. Kennedy did in 1960?” The results showed that 59% of Republicans, and 44% of Democrats said “Yes, and soon.”

Robert Novak recently noted the same trend. “Although disagreement remains within the Romney camp, the consensus is that he must address the Mormon question with a speech deploring bias,” Novak wrote a couple of weeks ago. “According to campaign sources, a speech has been written, though much of it could still be changed.”

I don’t doubt that Romney’s faith tradition is controversial in some conservative circles, but I haven’t the foggiest idea what he could say about it to overcome some voters’ prejudice.

The notion that Romney could deliver a JFK-like speech is rather silly, for reasons that have nothing to do with Romney’s skills. Kennedy spoke to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association on Sept. 12, 1960, and made a powerful case that his administration would be neutral on matters of faith. (It seems ridiculous in hindsight, but there was a common fear that Kennedy, as a Roman Catholic, would let the Vatican dictate U.S. policy.)

“I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute — where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote, where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the president who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.

“I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish — where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source, where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.”

Romney’s challenge is entirely different. He can’t deliver a similar speech because Republicans don’t want to hear it.

Nearly a half-century after JFK’s speech in Houston, many of today’s conservatives, particularly those in the GOP’s religious right base, abhor the very idea of church-state separation. It’s not unusual to hear figures like James Dobson and Pat Robertson reject the constitutional principle’s very existence.

If Romney were to publicly argue that “the separation of church and state is absolute,” he would be booed aggressively by conservative audiences that want more intermingling between religion and government, not less.

For that matter, the nature of the controversy is very different now than in 1960. Conservative Republicans uneasy about Romney’s faith aren’t worried that Salt Lake City will dictate policy through the White House; they’re just not comfortable with a faith tradition with which they’re unfamiliar (and in some cases, find heretical).

In this sense, as a friend of mine recently argued, Romney is “boxed in.” The “Insider’s Poll” suggests the DC establishment is waiting for a grand pronouncement. Unfortunately for the campaign, there’s a disconnect between what the insiders expect and what he can say.

For Romney to parody Jack Kennedy, he’d have to wantonly commit political suicide; social conservatives won’t buy it, and he’ll be lumped in with the RooDee crowd by the hard right.

For Romney to parody McCain, he’s automatically turn off religious moderates and left-leaners who’ll view him as “Rampstrike Jr.”

And, for Romney to stay his course, he’ll isolate everyone in the country who, at the mention of “Mormonism,” conjures up images of Warren Jeffs, inbreeding, and 14-year-old brides.

  • It should not even be an issue to be addressed. It should make absolutely no difference what “religion” he belongs to but the party of hypocrisy demands a religious explanation while supporting war as a foreign policy. The whole party has just become immersed in hypocrisy and it’s laughable to hear them clamor for an explanation of why Mit is a Mormon while claiming there is a separation of church and state.

  • What struck me about Morbo’s remark last week (“The man is boxed in, but I have no sympathy because he chose to crawl into the damn box”) was that it described not only Romney’s situation but the plight of conservatives across the board. Modern conservatism is so restrictive that all of the major Republican candidates are forced to contort themselves to fit its confines.Try as they might, none have been able to do it. Modern conservatism simply isn’t viable.

  • “It seems ridiculous in hindsight, but there was a common fear that Kennedy, as a Roman Catholic, would let the Vatican dictate U.S. policy.”

    The traditional fear of “papists” was ridiculous, a 17th century anachronism, and that helped Kennedy’s supporters subtly ridicule that fear, anti-immigrant feeling from the early 20th century was rapidly fading.

    Joseph Kennedy, Jack’s father, however, was something of a militant Catholic, and Catholic identity still meant something in American politics, Catholics often did still feel somewhat a group apart and despised. In 1960, when I went with my mother to the Catholic church in our little town of 1400 people, we had to litterally cross the railroad tracks to our town’s worst neighborhood — a kind of small-town ghetto. It can be documented that ol’ Joe was, in fact, promising the Vatican influence in the Kennedy White House, so, though the actual fears were ridiculous, there was still some residual cause for concern.

  • What people keep failing to realize is that there are three political parties in America: the conservative party, the liberal party, and the southern party. The conservatives and the liberals are fairly evenly divided outside the south, and so the southern party can throw its support to one or the other as it sees its interests advanced in so doing. Essentially, the southern party is the great parasite in America.

    Before the civil war, the southern party threw its support to the Democrats for their willingness to allow slavery at least where it existed. After the civil war, the southern party remained Democratic because of opposition to the Republican “enemy.” This led to the great moral compromise of the New Deal, in which progressives won the right to establish a progressive politics and economy outside the south, in return for turning a blind eye to Southern apartheid. The Democrats then commited the “treason” (in southern eyes) of supporting civil rights in the 1960s, and the southern party threw its support to its more natural conservative allies (despite their name). But rather than merely ask to be left alone, as had been the deal with the Democrats, the southern party determined that this time the parasite had to dominate the host. Unfortunately, the laws of biology are that when the parasite becomes dominant, it kills the host, and thereby kills itself. This is what we are witnessing in the trainwreck of the American Right today. (This is also what happened to the Democratic Party in the decade of the 1850s, which resulted in the Civil War)

    Back when JFK gave his speech, the southern party was fine with whatever bullshit the northerners wanted to believe, so long as that writ didn’t run six feet south of the Mason-Dixon line. Those Baptist ministers who listened to him must have been laughing to themselves inside as they heard him say things like “I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute — where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote…” since they had been doing that forever. In fact, everything JFK said he was opposed to was what was going on in the South.

    The pirates of the southernist party have always wanted a religion that supported their view of robbery, rape, and murderous genocide being the way to succeed in the world. Romney can’t say anything against this, because only his acquiesence to it will allow him to run this time, since the parasite now believes it is the host. Look at Romney’s ads (especially the one about the danger of the “jihadists”) – he will never deliver such a speech.

  • “I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute”

    Everytime I see this JFK quotation I’m reminded of how far we’ve fallen in half a century. I can’t imagine even a Democrat saying this today. And yet, this came after 1954, when God and nation became inseparable on our coins and in our Pledge and in our public discourse, so perhaps he didn’t really mean it.

    I can’t imagine what this country would be like if it weren’t for the First Amendment, the Fourteenth, and a few key Supreme Court decisions. I shudder to think about it.

  • Yes, Tom, the South is definitely as monolithic as the Soviet Union was. (snipe)

    It would make much more sense to divide us into the liberal, the urban/suburban conservative and the rural conservative parties.

  • As soon as Mitt wraps a snake around his neck, starts ‘singing’ the gospel, declares himself a ‘born again christian’, Romney wouldn’t have a chance…. All it takes in large parts of the South is to prove how religious of a nut you are in order to be adored.

  • I’m trying to remember, from 1968, how daddy George handled his religious question. Of course, his campaign may never have gotten far enough past the “brainwashing” incident for the question to come up.

    Does anyone remember, or have an idea, about how the Romney 68 campaign worked?

  • Tom @#5, I would add that the Southern Party also very quietly makes sure of the continuing flow of federal money to their states. Every one of the Red States gets more money back from the government than it pays out in taxes. Their dislike of federal government ends at their wallets.

  • Kind of sad to look back half a century and have to admit that in some ways, those were more enlightened times than today.

  • I kinda, sorta feel a little bit sorry for Romney. He’s in a no-win situation. As a former mormon, I would never vote for a mormon candidate. For the most part, the mormon “prelate” (not their term, mind you) has more absolute control over their membership than the pope does over his billion catholics. I’d vote for a Buddhist, Taoist, agnostic or athiest over a believer in the god of Abraham any day of the week, if such an open politician existed.

  • i don’t want to vote for anybody who makes a big deal out of (or even mentions) his/her faith. you want to be a catholic, a baptist, a mormon, a rasta (or pasta) farian, fine. knock yourself out. just don’t keep telling me about it. or expect me to care that it’s saved you/cleared up your complexion/whatever.

  • Romney could get away with the speech if he was running on a D ticket.

    Sometimes it’s the little things that make my day, like a republican getting caught up in their own parties prejudices.

  • It was not entirely unrealistic to worry about dictates from Rome with a Catholic president. Even today, various Catholic bishops still put quite a bit of effort into telling politiicians and judges how to think. Note the annual Red Mass that kicks off the opening of the Supreme Court each autumn. Consider also Father Charles Coughlin, who was still well remembered by many in 1960. The lack of influence by the Catholic church was not for want of trying, but because of who JFK was, and because American catholics were becoming used to ignoring church dictates when it suited them.

    It is even more realistic to worry about the influence of the mormon church. We need only look at the day-to-day workings of Utah, where the wall between church and state is at its thinnest. There is no question that the mormon church and by far the majority of its membership want the church involved in politics and government, so the main question is Romney’s opinions. Even though he does not appear to have acted like a theocrat or a fundamentalist (and probably has few tendencies in those directions), he seems politically and religiously more at home with highly conservative mormon Republicans such as Jake Garn and Orrin Hatch than with moderate mormons like former Utah senator Frank Moss. In a climate where Republicans clamor for more public religion and reactionary religious leaders clamor for more secular power, I’m tending to mistrust both strongly religious Republicans and religion-friendly Republicans from churches with traditions of strong secular involvement.

  • It is very sad that even a Democratic candidate for preznit today would not be able to get away with issuing a rousing statement of support for separation of church and state.

    Do you think we might, as a nation, be rediscovering the whole reason for the separation of church and state, all over again, from first principles?

    In other words: we have a secular state so that we don’t get embroiled in brutal civil wars between different religous factions, .e. the Sunni vs. Shia component of the Civil War in Iraq right now.

    A few years ago, someone suggested, “Why don’t we give the wingnuts what they want– a theocracy– then they can kill each other off fighting over whose theology exactly will be the one in charge. Then we can be done with the bastards.”

    Is that what Romney’s campaign gives us? Will the Repugs start clawing each other to death over it?

  • Yes, Tom, the South is definitely as monolithic as the Soviet Union was. (snipe)

    It would make much more sense to divide us into the liberal, the urban/suburban conservative and the rural conservative parties.

    When you look at the Southern Republican Party, which does represent a majority of the southern white population, it is indeed as monolithic as the Soviet Union wanted everyone to believe it was – only the South is for real.

  • (Apologizing in advance for being a bit “off topic”)
    Tom Cleaver – Let me start by saying that I enjoyed your comment, and many I’ve seen before, but this one (#5) was especially interesting…coming from someone who believes that we are getting dangerously close to Civil War II in this country…this time “The Blue vs. The Red” instead of “The Blue vs. The Gray” (in fact, I’m currently writing a book about it…would love to exchange some ideas with you…however…I digress…)

    …Being from the south (20 years growing up in NC and 15 years in SC), I can say the following with absolute certainty…

    Just like in the 1840’s and 1850’s, there are many in the south that don’t “swim with the current” and happen to hold strong beliefs against the majority of the “Nascar Nation”. Then it was slavery, states’ rights issues, etc., now its church-state seperation, abortion, etc…

    I find it interesting that you chose to lump all southerners in as “pirates” who support “robbery, rape, and muderous genocide”, and earlier in another thread you went down the name calling, sterotype-propigating path, stating, in your exact words, “What is it about South Carolina and vicious rumors? 15 generations of hillbilly incest can have a major effect on the lack of depth in the gene pool.” Isn’t a comment like this the same type of behavior that you have adamantly and articulately argued against before? All of your points above have merit, but please, I must ask, from where does your intense hatred of the south arise?

    If it lies in the robotic repeaters of far-right, ultra-conservative hate that unfortunately are the majority down here, I understand that feeling! But please, good sir, please do not lump us all into one mold. It should be noted that many “Southrons” were northern sympathizers or held abolitionist beliefs, but grew tired of this same type of “lumping”. They went on to fight for the south, not because they believed in the South’s causes, but because it was their home, and they were tired of being labeled as one thing when, in fact they were not.

    On another note, how sad that politics can divide friends and brothers so easily…these robotic repeaters used to be friends and just “good people”, but have transformed since 9/11 into something resembling Gollum (JRR T never would have envisioned this analogy)) I’ve personally lost four friends that I’ve been friends with my entire life, because they now sound like a tape-recorded playback of Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, or John McCain or even one who has become Ann Coulter’s twin-sister.

    Actually on-topic now…#11 CalD and #13 MellowJohn said it perfectly. Couldn’t agree more. Thank you.

  • I just get so tired of stereotypes, regardless of which side they are coming from. We need to learn to be inclusive. The planet’s survival depends upon it.

  • Nah, no speech. You know who could use some religion? Harry Reid! Now there’s a guy who needs a little spiritual guidance. Religion is a private matter but it isn’t that difficult to see who’s got it and who doesn’t. Mr. Romney has indeed got it. He should give a speech saying he won’t take marching orders from SLC just as SOON as Hillary Clinton gives a speech saying she will stop worshipping moveon.org. Y’know? Fair is fair.

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