They’re not going to follow us home

One of the more inane talking points embraced by supporters of the war is the notion that withdrawal from Iraq is inherently dangerous, because “the enemy will follow us home.” The president and his allies tend to repeat this, mantra like, without ever pausing to wonder if it makes sense.

It’s always been a dubious claim. For one thing, most of the violence in Iraq is the result of a civil war. Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias are not likely to “follow us home.” For another, as Fred Kaplan recently noted, “if terrorists wanted to attack American territory again (and maybe they do), their ability to do so is unaffected by whether we stay in or pull out of Iraq. It’s not as if they’re all holed up in Baghdad and Anbar province, just waiting for the fighting to stop so they can climb out of their foxholes and go blow up New York. If al-Qaida is a global network, its agents can fight in both places.”

And yet, we keep hearing the phrase, as if repeating it will make it true. McClatchy’s William Douglas took the unusual step of scrutinizing the comment’s accuracy. Guess what he found.

Military and diplomatic analysts say it isn’t [true]. They accuse Bush of exaggerating the threat that enemy forces in Iraq pose to the U.S. mainland.

“The president is using a primitive, inarticulate argument that leaves him open to criticism and caricature,” said James Jay Carafano, a homeland security and counterterrorism expert for the Heritage Foundation, a conservative policy organization. “It’s a poor choice of words that doesn’t convey the essence of the problem – that walking away from a problem doesn’t solve anything.”

U.S. military, intelligence and diplomatic experts in Bush’s own government say the violence in Iraq is primarily a struggle for power between Shiite and Sunni Muslim Iraqis seeking to dominate their society, not a crusade by radical Sunni jihadists bent on carrying the battle to the United States.

When a Heritage Foundation staffer, who opposes withdrawal, is accusing the president of relying on a “primitive” and “inarticulate” argument, you know it’s bad.

“The war in Iraq isn’t preventing terrorist attacks on America,” said one U.S. intelligence official, who spoke only on the condition of anonymity because he’s contradicting the president and other top officials. “If anything, that — along with the way we’ve been treating terrorist suspects — may be inspiring more Muslims to think of us as the enemy.”

Yes, we already knew this, but a) it’s periodically helpful to be reminded of reality; and b) I’m delighted to see it in a national newspaper chain.

Actually, there is a shred of truth to the Bush argument, but not for the reasons he says. If we pull out, binLaden may well attack us again… if he thinks it will result in our going back in, or attacking somewhere else that will sap our strength (military and economic).

Right now Bush is doing exactly what bin Laden has said he wants. He is isolating us, and destroying our strength. Bush is, not bin Laden.

So when we finally stop doing bin Laden’s work and exit Iraq, bin Laden or others may attack us again. It’s a cheap investment toward their goals; 19 guys with knives made us spend 2 trillion dollars. I’d say it would be possible that they learned what a small investment in terrorism can accomplish, especially when really stupid people are in office. So that makes me think another attack might be more likely toward the end of the Bush presidency, even if we’re still in Iraq.

But the only way to avoid that kind of attack would be to stay in Iraq forever, which is an even worse option with very forseeable consequences.

Of course if by 2008 we’re at war with Iran, al Quaeda can just sit back and train their forces for their assault on the “near enemies”, which of course includes Iran. al Qaeda would love it if we would destroy Iran, so they might even try to make us go after Iran, playing two enemies against each other, much the way we played Iraq and Iran in the 1980s.

  • “The president is using a primitive, inarticulate argument that leaves him open to criticism and caricature,”

    Well, it’s gotten him this far in life.

  • –>Yes, we already knew this, but a) it’s periodically helpful to be reminded of reality; and b) I’m delighted to see it in a national newspaper chain.

    I’ve sent e-mails to CNN and other so called national news organizations, telling them about inconsistent reporting. Unfortunately I haven’t heard back from them, other than the standard automatic reply that has absolutely nothing to do with your initial message.

    I wonder if more of the readers here at ‘Carpetbaggerreport’ and other reality based web forums were to send factual e-mails to CNN and the likes insisting they report correctly… would that help? Probably only in my dreams, but hey, what can I say….

    At least for the people who are interested in doing so, please refrain from name calling, as that is not helpful to our cause and tends to put the recipient on defense. Leave the name calling and hate spewing to the right-wingers, at least it makes it easier to recognize them.

  • It is a crude, emotional and evocative argument. Of course its untrue, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t effective.

  • The Kaplan article is one worth passing along to friends and family. I must say, I admire the writer’s discipline in limiting himself to only four bewildering Bush remarks (with so many, how would one begin to choose?), but I would add a couple points to those he selected.

    To the first, which CB refers to, I would add, or clarify, that terrorists are not like an army that needs four months to ship material before they can strike, but small semi- or fully-independent cells made up of individuals who can move about quickly with nothing more than they can carry, if need be. I would also add that terrorists are a renewable resource. One way to keep them from coming here would be to stop creating them over there.

    Regarding Iran and IEDs, I would ask if Bush intends to stop all arms sales, because by his logic, anyone who finds a US made weapon in the hands of an enemy would be justified to strike the US. My guess is that would be at least half the world.

    As for not talking with nasty regimes, what is this neo-con notion that talking with an adversary constitutes a reward? Seems more like giggly middle-school girl behavior than the macho-man imperialists they pretend to be.

    Kaplan’s final choice, Dubya’s ridiculous historical comparisons, may be the most absurd of all. Debunking those would take a 22-page chapter each. Who has time to do that when we all have to put food on our family?

  • ***primitive, inarticulate argument***

    ChimpSpeak!

    ***…we all have to put food on our family?***

    beep—a culinary fashion statement? Edible clothing? (Don’t worry; I know what you meant). As for “not having the time,” Maybe the reality-based community could apply this as “penance” to the rodents suddenly abandoning the sinking ship-of-Chimp….

  • if terrorists wanted to attack American territory again (and maybe they do), their ability to do so is unaffected by whether we stay in or pull out of Iraq. — Kaplan

    Actually, I don’t think that’s quite true. If we pulled out of Iraq we’d have the money to beef up internal security which *would* affect the terrorists’ ability to attack us at home. But Bush prefers to spend that money elsewhere…

  • James Jay Carafano: “It’s a poor choice of words that doesn’t convey the essence of the problem – that walking away from a problem doesn’t solve anything.”

    Now it’s time to dispense with this canard.

    Withdrawing from Iraq does not = walking away from a problem.

    Mr. Carafano is no better than Bush when he says crap like that.

  • This should be pounded into anyone who thinks Giulaini is anything but an idiot:

    At a house party in New Hampshire, Mr. Giuliani suggested that it was unclear which was farther along, Iran or North Korea, in the development of a nuclear weapons program.

    Got that? I guess I missed the news about Iran announcing it had a bomb, and then testing it.

    MORON.

  • GWB doesn’t want to think about withdrawal because somebody sat him down and talked LOGISTICS.

    There’s only one exit, they told him. You can’t get out through Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Turkey or that other country that has a long border with Iraq–Iran. All the soldiers and all the equipment have to go down the long Iraqi panhandle to the tiny bit of coastline in the south that has ports on the Persian Gulf.

    Then, thousands of shiploads of soldiers and materiel (unless you intend to leave hundreds of billions of dollars worth of war materiel behind) will have to be loaded and sailed down the bottle-necked Persian Gulf, before heading home.

    Even thick-skulled GWB is capable of imagining what running that gantlet will be like.

    That’s why he’s intent on letting withdrawal be the task of the next administration. A lot of American blood has been shed in an unwinnable war. And, sadly, the potential for a much bloodier leavetaking, has to be one of the things he’s most afraid will be attributed to his term as Commander in Chief.

  • For one thing, most of the violence in Iraq is the result of a civil war. — CB.
    Most of the violence in Iraq is the result of an illegal American invasion.
    Sorry to have to keep repeating this, but it is the God-honest truth. Why mince words, and why dodge the reality?

  • Yes, we already knew this, but a) it’s periodically helpful to be reminded of reality; and b) I’m delighted to see it in a national newspaper chain.
    Yes, CB, we’re on adjacent pages if not identical pages. But the fact remains that no amount of logical argument or incontrovertible fact can penetrate the Bush bubble. Why not cut to the chase, recognize that fundamentally the war is illegal and based on lies, and go as effectively and systematically as the political exigencies permit to draw in the purse strings. With no open-ended funding, and a stipulated withdrawal timetable, he can squeak and squeal as much as he likes but he can not perpetuate a disaster that the funds are no longer available for.
    Of course he will try to lay the blame on someone else’s doorstep, but the bulk of Americans have already wised-up to his chronic deceitfulness and are not likely now to be persuaded otherwise. They’ve seen through his fantastic illusions and want done with the whole rotten charade.
    I’m fairly convinced that the Democratic Congress are unfazed by the Bush gang’s blatant projections and wont bend to their hollow posturing. At least I hope so. They’ve got the bit between their teeth and they should not lose grip. History, the world and humanity are all on their side and they should know that and not falter.

  • LBJ made EXACTLY the same argument about pulling out of Vietnam – we’re fighting them over there, so we don’t have to fight them over here. How many Vietnamese followed the retreating American forces with the intent of continuing the Vietnam War in Springfield, or Poughkeepsie, or Flint? Zip. Not one. The mystery remains not so much that George Bush can reintroduce the same arguments in a war that has startling similarities in its unwinnability, but that so many people who call HIM stupid fell for it. A few continue to do so.

  • Bush projects his own shadow of evil and terror on the Mid-East and then grasps dictatorial power in order to “defeat” it.
    The neo-con”War on Terror” is a totalitarian con game variation of Hitler’s classic power grab-….the Reichstag Fire .
    Evil is already home and pretending to protect us.

  • Hooray, its the BushBrat Happee War Profiteer Kit (TM):

    1. Find a country where people aren’t crazy about us but they don’t hate us either.

    2. Invade it for no reason. Leave a crapload of HEX untended while you’re looting priceless antiquities.

    3. Fuck shit up really hard. Turn out all the lights! Make sure lots of people are suddenly unemployed! Torture a few prisoners while you’re at it!

    4. Continue Step 3 until someone picks up a gun.

    5. Continue Step 3 while you try to pacify the blokes with guns and since they look like all of the other blokes stamp down really hard on anyone.

    6. Continue Steps 3 and 5.

    Eventually you will have a determined enemy that knows the terrain a whole lot better than your forces and can’t be eliminated unless you frag the entire country. This will allow you to claim your forces can’t withdraw because the “enemy” is out for our blood and so you’ll just have to stay until the “enemy” is pacified. Watch your War Profiteer laugh and giggle as he rolls about in piles of cash!

  • Again, I’m left wondering how the Iraqis feel about the “fighting them over there so we won’t have to fight them over here” language. It’s like if you set fire to your neighbor’s house (while the nice family who lives there is still inside) so that the mice in his basement don’t get into your house – “I’m fighting them next door so I don’t have to fight them over here.”

  • It’s like if you set fire to your neighbor’s house (while the nice family who lives there is still inside) so that the mice in his basement don’t get into your house – “I’m fighting them next door so I don’t have to fight them over here.”

    Good analogy, I’d only add that in this instance the arsonist neighbor is who made his neighbor’s house inviting to the rodents in the first place.

  • Ah, nostalgia! Back in the Reagan years, it was “The Sandinistas can drive straight through to the US from Nicaragua.” A comic by the name of Kevin Rooney neatly punctured that one on the Tonight Show. When they get to Texas, he pointed out, every other pickup truck has a gun rack in it.

    I say, let ’em follow us home. I’m willing to bet the American public would do a better job of stopping them over here then the criminals masquerading as the American government have done of fighting them over there.

    Of course, there’s no way Exxon can make a profit off of that, so it probably won’t be happening…

  • Comments are closed.