This Week in God

First up from The God Machine this week is an analysis from Time’s Amy Sullivan of a new poll about voters, politics, and matters of faith. Apparently, the Bush years have had quite an effect on public attitudes, but not in a way the president and his allies probably intended.

[T]he poll found that Americans have strong views about religion and politics in the era of George W. Bush. In May 2004, half (49%) of American voters said President Bush’s faith made him a strong leader while only 36% said it made him too closed-minded. Today, voters have reversed their opinion about the role of Bush’s faith: 50% now say it makes him too closed-minded and 34% say it makes him a strong leader. Similarly, while in 2004, only 27% said that Bush’s use of faith did more to divide the country rather than unite it, today, 43% feel that way.

There is evidence of that division in the poll. By a two-to-one margin (62% to 29%), Republicans say a president should use his or her faith to guide presidential decisions. By contrast, Democrats reject this idea by a similar two-to-one margin (58% to 32%). In the same way, while three-quarters of Democrats say the president should not use his or her own interpretation of the Bible to make public decisions, Republicans are about evenly split (46% to 43%) on this. And while the overwhelming majority of Republican voters (71%) agree that religious values should serve as a guide to what political leaders do in office, 56% of Democrats disagree with this.

It remains to be seen whether Democratic voters would feel differently about any of these issues if one of their candidates took back the White House in 2008. It could be that respondents find it difficult to separate their general views on the questions from their opinions about Bush and religion. But it’s also possible that the last seven have indeed fundamentally shifted the way many Americans think about religion and politics. The answer to that key question is something the Democratic frontrunners will be working to figure out.

Perhaps, but it’s a landscape that certainly favors Democratic attitudes, isn’t it? The conventional wisdom has suggested for years — indeed, it continues to suggest now — that Dems are in deep trouble politically unless they can make strides with religious voters who perceive the party as overly secular. Sullivan seems reluctant to admit it, but Time’s poll suggests Americans are anxious to challenge this dynamic for the first time in years.

As Digby put it, “[Sullivan] insists that the Democrats are going to have trouble winning unless they can appeal to religious voters when the poll she’s citing actually says that people are dramatically turning away from these explicitly religious appeals.”

It should keep things interesting.

And The God Machine was flooded with emails yesterday from readers, believers and non, who were struck by the latest piece from Michael Gerson, a Washington Post columnist and George W. Bush’s former top speechwriter.

Gerson, who is unfailingly devout, dabbled this week in Philosophy of Religion 101 in order to argue that atheists struggle to appreciate the differences between right and wrong. Gerson seems particularly troubled by best-selling books about disbelief from Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, and Richard Dawkins.

How do we choose between good and bad instincts? Theism, for several millennia, has given one answer: We should cultivate the better angels of our nature because the God we love and respect requires it. While many of us fall tragically short, the ideal remains.

Atheism provides no answer to this dilemma. It cannot reply: “Obey your evolutionary instincts” because those instincts are conflicted. “Respect your brain chemistry” or “follow your mental wiring” don’t seem very compelling either. It would be perfectly rational for someone to respond: “To hell with my wiring and your socialization, I’m going to do whatever I please.” C.S. Lewis put the argument this way: “When all that says ‘it is good’ has been debunked, what says ‘I want’ remains.” […]

Atheists can be good people; they just have no objective way to judge the conduct of those who are not.

Gerson went on to point to the Founding Fathers, who he believed “were not indifferent to the existence of religious faith.” (Thomas Jefferson might disagree. It was he, after all, who said, “It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” Sounds pretty indifferent.)

There were many, many excellent responses to Gerson’s piece, and I see no need to reinvent the wheel. I’d encourage readers to consider posts from Hilzoy and Mark Kleiman, both of whom offer sharp, poignant critiques of Gerson’s misguided reasoning.

But I’d also encourage folks to review Christopher Hitchens, who the Post allowed to respond in print.

Here is my challenge. Let Gerson name one ethical statement made, or one ethical action performed, by a believer that could not have been uttered or done by a nonbeliever. And here is my second challenge. Can any reader of this column think of a wicked statement made, or an evil action performed, precisely because of religious faith? The second question is easy to answer, is it not? The first — I have been asking it for some time — awaits a convincing reply. By what right, then, do the faithful assume this irritating mantle of righteousness? They have as much to apologize for as to explain.

Essentially conceding that philosophy and secularism do not condemn their adherents to lives of unbridled selfishness, and that (say) the Jewish people did not get all the way to Mount Sinai under the impression that murder and theft and perjury were okay, and also that we could not have evolved unless human solidarity was in some way innate, Gerson ends weakly by posing what is a rather moving problem.

“In a world without God,” he writes, “this desire for love and purpose is a cruel joke of nature — imprinted by evolution but designed for disappointment.” Again, he substitutes the wish for the thought. We very probably are, as he admits, not the designed objects of the Big Bang or of the process of natural selection. But this sober conclusion, objective as it is, is surely preferable to the delusion that we have been created diseased, by a capricious despot, and then abruptly commanded to be whole and well, on pain of terror and torture. That sick joke is one that we can cease to find impressive, that belongs in the infancy of our species, and gives a false picture of reality that we would do well to outgrow.

And so the debate continues….

It makes me mad when, as a life-long Democrat, I’m accused of have bad – or, no – “values” by the Christian Right. My family and I ,and most other Dems, I know have GREAT “family values”. Just because we may not sit in church every week, we’ve managed to raise good kids who see the world as a place to “give back” in good works to pay for our very existence.

Look at “our” presidential candidates; not a divorce among them. And, no hypocrites, either. No preaching “family values” while getting nookie on the side. Look at Chelsea Clinton – supposedly reared by “value-less parents”. Look how well she’s turned out; compare her with those skanks, Jenna and Not-Jenna, raised by supposedly “Christian” parents.

I’m proudly a Democrat.

  • The other day a commenter remarked that Mr. Bucket paid $20 to give oral sex. If you read the article CB linked to, it sounds like Mr. Bucket- who is a Florida state GOP lawmaker (Rep. Bob Allen) did indeed offer to perform oral sex for $20, not to pay $20 to perform oral sex.

    Also the commenter remarked that the incident shows that you don’t have to be something-or-other to “work for” the GOP. But Allen doesn’t work for the GOP, he is the GOP.

  • Theism, for several millennia, has given one answer: We should cultivate the better angels of our nature because the God we love and respect requires it. While many of us fall tragically short, the ideal remains.

    Hmmm. Inquisition, Schism, hatred of the Jews, Northern Ireland, Crusades, Conquistadors, Jihad, French religious wars (Hugenots), Thirty Years war, Milhemet Mitzvah, witch trials, tribal wars, Sudan, Reformation and Counter-Reformation, ritual cannibalism, Rwanda genocide, contemporary terrorism, “Gott Mit Uns”, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Pope Benedict XVI, Sri Lanka, Jerry F-ing Falwell, East Timor, Pat F-ing Robertson, and on and on … yeah, I’d say many nominally religious people do fall tragically short.

  • Contrary to modern myth, we aren’t designed to be lone wolves. As with our near neighbors in evolution, we are communal. Communities require rules of behavior. Good behavior isn’t about religion – it’s about survival.

  • Why isn’t religion a private matter and actual morals or values a public matter for public consumption for governmental leaders? I don’t WANT to know somebody’s “innermost feelings” about their religion, just whether he or she is an honest, intelligent, decent, compassionate, and strong leader. PERIOD. NOTHING ELSE. I don’t want to know why, just what they are.

    Nobody can agree on religion, simply because it’s so personal, private, and varied, but most of us can agree on the morals and values of those we want for leaders.

  • Good behavior isn’t about religion – it’s about survival. J Flowers.

    Makes perfect evolutionary sense. Way back in the day, cavemen HAD to work together. Even in the legendary old west, people survived by helping each other; not by rugged individualism. If our forefathers, near and far, had been social darwinists, we probably wouldnt be here. I believe thats called a paradox.

  • Humans are soulful, nuturing creatures. The golden rule, treat others the way you want to be treated, which is to me the ultimate test of right and wrong, pre-dates Jesus Christ. The golden rule is found in many world religions. The golden rule not necessarily a religious statement. Michael Gerson is barking up the wrong tree.

    Many good things have been done in Christ’s name. Many bad things have been done in His name. Many good things have been done in Allah’s name. Many bad things have been done in His name.

    And so on… Humans are fallible. Humans carry grudges, prejudices, fears. Humans can act on those in different ways – self-deliberation, communication, forgiveness… or violence in word or deed.

    Sullivan’s survey results speak more to Bush’s version of Christianity rather than a rejection of Christianity/politicians’ religions itself. As an example: Barack Obama speaking of his faith, and how it influences his life, reassures me. George Bush speaking of faith, and how he has used it to influence his presidency, scares and angers me.

    Just a few thoughts,
    Hannah, liberal Christian

  • Of course, it’s karma!

    No, seriously, theist, non-theist or atheist alike cannot avoid karma, which is defined as cause, condition and result. You do not need a god, or a belief in “the God we love and respect” to know that everything you do has a consequence. We have evidence of it every day — every moment — of our lives.

    When you learn that good actions bring good results and bad actions bring bad results, what more do you need to choose the good over the bad?

    No one wants to suffer, everyone wants to find happiness, all we have to discover is what actions lead to the one and what lead to the other to make the appropriate choice every time. The appropriate choice for happiness is virtue. The inappropriate choice for suffering is selfishness. God doesn’t come into it.

    Of course, if you need ‘God’ to help you along the way that’s fine, you’re free to do that. But to claim that choices between virtue and non-virtue are entirely dependent on the intervention of some mysterious, unprovable, unidentifiable entity floating around somewhere is complete nonsense.

  • When Amy Sullivan talks about Dems winning the support of religious voters, I take it to mean that we Dems shouldn’t ridicule or demean others on account of their religious convictions. Too many of us aren’t afraid to loudly voice the opinion that, “Oh, So-and-So is a contributing member of a church. He must be a dick.” The more welcoming attitude is to allow So-and-So to contribute to his church, get up early on Sunday to go there, eschew whatever flavors of sexual pleasure are not to his taste, pray at whatever intervals he likes, burn incense to whatever gods he likes, and to leave him the hell alone — until he ridicules, demeams or condemns others because we don’t do those things. THEN he’s a dick.

  • Instinctive response: Hey Gerson, suck my agnostic balls. Your eagerness to put your talents at the disposal of moral monsters has helped lead to untold, indeed unknowable misery inflicted on people of another flavor of faith–as well as to the difficult-to-argue-against conclusion that the people of America (and not just your former bosses) are the foulest of hypocrites.

    Thinking response: one doesn’t need God to justify moral behavior. The so-called Golden Rule isn’t worth following because of its supposedly divine origins; it happens to make sense on utilitarian grounds. Whether in one’s home, neighborhood or planet, treating others with kindness and respect is generally the best way to ensure that one will be similarly treated. Not stealing, not killing, honoring the family–these are actions that, under neutral circumstance, offer their own rewards. And our Enlightenment values–the values under such vicious attack from the Zombie Army of modern mutant pseudo-conservatism–suggest that moral action that arises from an informed decision has a higher value than compelled behavior enacted from fear of hellfire.

  • My spiritual beliefs are my own and not to be owned by some “religious” dogma or group. Hitchens has difficulty explaining his thoughts in the words of the common man but essentialy God people have no trouble saying “thou shalt not kill” and then go to war and kill millions. They find ways to rationalize their dogma of beliefs with the realities of life.
    Non-believers have just as strong a moral code as believers. They understand love and justice and ethics as well as believers. So why should they be judged as deficient in morality because the don’t believe as someone’s faith suggests they believe?
    Is it the “I may be bad but I’m better than you” rationalization? Or is it just another way to try to hold power over others, (I have the truth and you don’t)?
    Religions are divisive and regionalized whereas morality is universal and ethical.

  • Thanks. Always appreciate your “this week in God” segment. That last paragraph of Hitchens is great.

  • BTW…they’re are polling the party of hypocrisy filled with closet homos and closed minded religious bigots who are out to grab power in the name of Jesus. They would kill Jesus or anyone acting like Jesus today.
    Why don’t the polls include the word spiritual rather than religious. I think all people want to know is that our leaders are moral and not crooks like our present “religious” leader is.
    They just don’t want a leader that says I only believe in power and politics is my guide. We want ethics and morality not fanaticism or a closed minded seperatist with some narrow minded self righteous religious “Values”. This is the confusion in responding to this polls questioning. The terms mean different things to different people.

  • from #11 …moral action that arises from an informed decision has a higher value than compelled behavior enacted from fear of hellfire.

    Couldn’t have said it better. Jesus never said I had to be a Southern Baptist, thank God.

  • I’m happy to see that Gerson’s article generated hundreds of posts, nearly all scathing in their criticism of his puerile scribblings. Would I be unconscionably optimistic to hope that the Wapo takes note and stops inviting Gerson to share his immaturity with the world on their pages?

  • When anyone tells me that they are a christian,I ask”what kind of christian are you”? Now thats a kodak moment. Look,the republican christian right (R.C.R.) is the K.K.K. with a new twist.Remember David Duke from louisciana a K.K.K. leader who ran under the G.O.P. banner.He didn’t get far because of ties to the K.K.K. Thats the new angle,drop the old K.K.K. banner, put up the new G.O.P. banner. Don’t you just love it!

  • […] the republican christian right (R.C.R.) is the K.K.K. with a new twist. Sergio, @ 19

    That’s why the correct spelling is RepubliKKKans.

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