Those awful ‘elites’ and their dreaded facts and evidence

After writing five posts in five days on the increasingly-ridiculous debate over a “gas-tax holiday,” I was prepared to let the subject go. Really, I was. The NYT had an interesting item about the role of the gas-tax idea within the broader context of Clinton’s and Obama’s economic perspectives, but I read it thinking, “Must … avoid … topic ….”

But this morning, Hillary Clinton effectively taunted me into yet another post. It’s really not my fault; it’s hers.

Hillary Clinton has just started doing an Indiana town-hall meeting being broadcast on ABC, and George Stephanopoulos asked her a direct question: Could she name a single economist who agrees with her support for the gas tax holiday?

Hillary sidestepped the question, and tried to use the complete dearth of expert support for the idea to her advantage, pointing to it as proof that she’s on the side of ordinary folks against “elite opinion” — a phrase she used twice.

“I think we’ve been for the last seven years seeing a tremendous amount of government power and elite opinion behind policies that haven’t worked well for hard working Americans,” she said.

That banging sound you hear is me hitting my head against my desk.

First, Stephanopoulos’ question was pretty reasonable. The Huffington Post spent most of Thursday trying to find a single economist — left, right, center, Dem, Republican, even former Clinton administration officials — who could defend Clinton’s idea. Zero turned up. Literally, not one. That should give us a hint about the merit of the proposal.

Second, Clinton’s disgust for “elite opinion” is not only entirely out of character for her, it’s a textbook George W. Bush move. There’s just no excuse for any Democrat, especially one as sharp and knowledgeable as Clinton, to do this.

Indeed, the fact that Clinton can make these remarks with a straight face is rather disconcerting.

Seriously, “elite opinion” has been the driving force behind Bush’s failed policies? Since when? Reality shows the exact opposite — the policy experts have been warning everyone since Day One that Bush’s economic policy, his foreign policy, his environmental policy, his judicial policy, etc., are a disaster and a recipe for failure. In fact, Hillary Clinton has been citing these experts for years.

“Elite opinion” hasn’t been “behind policies that haven’t worked well for hard working Americans”; elite opinion has been pushing in the other direction. Bush hasn’t been operating with the support of policy experts; he’s been blowing off policy experts as liberal eggheads who think too much. And now Clinton appears ready to join him.

A bit later she added: “It’s really odd to me that arguing to give relief to a vast majority of Americans creates this incredible pushback… Elite opinion is always on the side of doing things that don’t benefit” the vast majority of the American people.

I suspect by the end of the week, Clinton will be railing against “The Man” who’s always “trying to keep us down.”

Consider an example. The NYT’s Paul Krugman is one of the most influential liberal thinkers in the country. He’s also been a pretty reliable ally of Hillary Clinton during the campaign. On this issue, though, Krugman has already explained how wrong Clinton is. Is it Clinton’s position that Paul Krugman is against policies that benefit most Americans? Is she now arguing that Krugman has stood behind policies that don’t work for hard working Americans?

If Clinton’s anti-intellectual, anti-expertise rhetoric sounds familiar, it’s because we’ve been listening to the Bush gang rail against elites in the exact same way for the last eight years.

Embracing intellectual obtuseness and deflecting criticism with charges of elitism is a tactic George Bush often deployed while campaigning. It’s striking to see Clinton do it because she has been a regular and harsh critic of Bush’s blindness to expert opinion. It’s even more striking to hear her aides actually sound like Bush administration officials.

When I asked Communications Director Howard Wolfson if the Clinton team could offer any intellectual ballast for the gas-tax vacation, given that so many policymakers had criticized it, he said, “The presidency requires leadershipโ€ฆ. There are times when the president does something that the group of experts, quote unquote, does not agree with. Presidents get advice and then act, and that is what Senator Clinton is doing.” Or, as George Bush used to put it: A leader leads. Even if off a cliff.

The irony is, Clinton is at her best, her most impressive, and most inspiring when she’s showing off the depth of her knowledge. Policy Wonk Clinton is absolutely amazing — she knows details and policy minutiae better than almost anyone on the national stage. Policy Wonk Clinton loves studies, evidence, and reason. Policy Wonk Clinton is a bit like Al Gore, only with better political instincts and shrewder campaign skills. She’s the type of candidate I can really get excited about.

Policy Wonk Clinton, however, has left the building, and has been replaced with Shameless Pandering Clinton, who sounds like Bush while promoting John McCain’s gas-tax ideas.

The sooner we can get the real Clinton back, the better.

The sooner we can get the real Clinton back, the better.

This is awfully reasonable (and kind) of you, as befits what you’re trying to accomplish here. But insofar as there are “real” Clintons, the ones you’re remembering had what they wanted, headed the party and won their elections, and their conduct was based upon those circumstances.

I’d argue that the way that people behave when they’re losing is at least as “real” as the way they comport themselves when things are going their way. And it has saddened me deeply to see that Hillary doesn’t just make desperate, wrongheaded mistakes when she’s losing; she clings to those egregious errors and twists reality to fit her argument in the manner of Dubya.

Frightening. Really frightening. With what she said this morning, she seems to have truly lost her mind and gone completely down the rabbit hole.

  • It’s interesting. This is the first issue where Hillary supporters and fence-sitters have been clearly disgusted by Senator Clinton.

    Outrage.

  • The irony is, Clinton is at her best, her most impressive, and most inspiring when sheโ€™s showing off the depth of her knowledge. Policy Wonk Clinton is absolutely amazing

    I feel deprived, having missed any of this. I’ve seen her in many Senate hearings, debates, speeches, and interviews. I’ve read her web page. The closest thing I’ve seen to an example of showing off knowledge was a scripted interview on CNBC where she talked about rebundling subprime loans. But even there, the open ended questions, followed by mind-numbing fawning over her brilliance after she was done, left me gagging.

  • that sound you hear is the sound of hillary crashing and burning. this is the issue that will sink her, finally.

  • Damn – shillary is either incredibly stooooooooooooooooopid or just so out of touch she hasn’t a clue what she is saying and doing. We have already had 7 years of that game.

    How dare anyone that feels entitled to the presidency, expecting Americans to support a bush-clinton-bush-clinton junta to call anyone elitist!,

    “Elitism” is what here entire campagne is based on.

  • (pulling out my hair)

    You know what pisses me off the most about Hillary? She’s is TOO FUCKING SMART for ANY of this. What the hell is wrong with her? Is she that detached from reality that she doesn’t see that she’s building herself up to be something that she’s not? If she were to somehow get the nomination the GOP will tear this “new” Hillary image to shreds.

    We’ve had 7+ years of a blueblood president who tries to pretend he’s something other than he is– his whole cowboy image is one of the fakest presidential personas ever. Now she’s doing the same, pretending that she’s some kind of “ordinary” person while her strength is that she’s (supposedly) brilliant and extraordinary.

    Next thing you know she’s going to say she knows what it’s like to live in “public housing,” you know, like the Governor’s Mansion and the White House.

  • “The way people behave wen they’re losing is at least as “real as the way they comport themselves when things are going their way.”
    Thanks, Maria, for reminding us about the very real differences in character between Obama and Clinton. I want a President with real character. That’s not Clinton!
    Please, Indiana and North Carolina – Do what you can to end this thing.

  • To EvilPoet – Funny… I was reminded of the same quote when she said something to Bill O’Reilley about “The very rich – God bless us!”

  • well, at least she didn’t claim the experts were just using “fuzzy math.”

  • Caution: what follows is an evil snark that should in no way be construed to reflect an absence of empathy towards the horse in question on my part. That said, does anyone else find it tragically symbolic that the horse Clinton was backing in the derby came in second and then was immediately put down? Almost prophetic…

  • In fact, we don’t have multiple Hillary Clintons. We have a single, complex, tragically flawed Hillary Clinton. Every observation you make about her mind, her policy knowledge, and her political instincts is true. Yet in spite of these capacities, there is the repeated willingness to promote an agenda over the truth and, when necessary for that task, to deride the facts. From tax policy to war, she promotes her own interest over the truth. How am I supposed to believe she will defend our Constitution after eight years of deliberate, pre-meditated assault by the Bush Administration?

  • I’d love to see a transcript of the behind-the scenes meetings where they decided to go this direction. I suspect much of the talking would be on the part of Mark Penn.

    She’s not just going to lose; she’s going to lose ugly, burning her reputation and the goodwill much of the Dem base has for her and for her husband. What a waste.

  • Hillary Clinton has just started doing an Indiana town-hall meeting being broadcast on ABC, and George Stephanopoulos asked her a direct question: Could she name a single economist who agrees with her support for the gas tax holiday?

    Crap, I must have stepped into the negaverse. Stephanopoulos challenging HILLARY on a question of SUBSTANCE?

  • I don’t know what I find more disheartening: That Clinton panders so shamelessly, or that she panders so badly…

  • I’m not surprised on one level. How about Hillarycare? All the congressional experts told her to work with Congress to sell her plan. She told them to stuff it and it failed, spectacularly.

    I agree with Hils that sometimes you have to blow off experts. For example “experts” like Michael O’Hanlon, Wolfowitz, Paul Bremer and Doug Feith because their opinion and advice is worth less than a rat’s ass. In other words, those with a consistent track record of failure or with a habit of really stupid bad ideas.

    On the other hand, you have to have good judgment to decide whose advice you’re going to use. So far, Hils has been showing really really bad judgment from, uh, Day One. Key ones for me:
    1) Dismissing the threat of Obama
    2) Starting the coronation before the race
    3) Squandering resources
    4) Keeping failures in key positions
    5) Not admitting mistakes
    6) Dismissive of bad news (11 straight losses, “insignificant” states, etc)
    7) Incredibly poor planning

    Hils might be a smart capable pol with a wonderful grasp of policy which means that she should be a policy wonk at a think tank not someone who should be in a leadership role.

  • I am doubtful that the average voter will see through the pandering and will understand that the gas tax holiday is a bad idea. I will be both pleased and surprised if I’m wrong about that.

    However, I am hopeful that she will annoy enough superdelegates to end the primary season in Obama’s favor. I have a hard time imagining ways that she could more thoroughly irritate Democratic politicians who aren’t actively for her and opposed to Obama than what she’s been doing lately – elevating McCain over Obama, cozying up to Scaife, this gas tax holiday, the Tuzla lies, Clintonian vengance, etc.

    Also, it’s nice to see Stephanopolous trying to regain his reputation as a competent interviewer.

  • Hillary has now officially become the Manchurian Candidate of our generation. She went from being a victim of the vast rightwing conspiracy to it’s most enthusiastic supporter and participant. And she’s not even bothering to hide it, appearing publicly with the most heinous neocons and spouting their nonsense from her own mouth as if daring anyone to do anything about it.

    I had hoped that the evil spell that this country has been under for the last eight years would be ended when the Bush administration left the White House. Now I’m more convinced than ever that if Obama doesn’t win, we’ll be just as badly off even if the next president isn’t John McCain.

  • “The sooner we can get the real Clinton back, the better.”

    I heartily agree. Back to being a full time Senator from New York State.

  • #11 Chicago Pat I had similar thoughts watching the race yesterday.

    The 208 Great American Horse Race.

    The eventual winner, Big Brown was a novice and had only run two previous races prior to entering the big race. Coming from an outside gate that has previously doomed most previous entrants, he put himself into contention early in the race and finally took the lead coming around the final turn. He never relinquished it and won going away. The only filly in the race put up a good fight and came in second but after crossig the finishing line broke down and had to be quickly euthanized as there was nothing that could be done to save her.

  • Where are her supporters in all of this ruckus? Have they left the building? have they donned their stylish, head-to-toe black Goth sweats and snow-white Nikes, to await their rescue from the incredible stupidity of their candidate via a flying saucer conveniently tucked behind the planet Saturn? Have they hunkered down before the altar of their great Deity, the Overflowing Oil Drum of KoolAid?

    As for She-Unworthy-of-Naming, the suggestion that an informed opinion is “elitist” only furthers the belief that—to her, and to her minions—ordinary Americans are nothing more that stupid folk, meant to be led around on leashes that are tied through nose-rings. It’s getting to the point that even the idea of her becoming president constitutes the definition of torture. As with the current resident of the WH, it probably means nothing to her….

  • The subjugation of Hillary Clinton’s intellect by her ego is now complete. I’ve been trying very hard to like her, but while we’re all razzing McCain for being Bush’s evil twin, Hillary now looks like Bush’s twin sister.

    Democrats don’t need to act like Republicans to win, and this nation will be far better off if the Democrats don’t. Shame on Hillary. I next expect her to renounce evolution for political gain.

  • I believe we ARE seeing the real Clinton, I’m afraid. Push someone into a corner, and see what kind of person they turn into. Clinton’s been against the wall for some time now, what with being on the losing side of the primary race, and she’s quickly turning into the typical GOP talking points idiot. It’s sad, really. But I won’t be shedding any tears when she exits stage right.

  • She’s refuting and refusing the advice of EVERY economist?!?!?? Because educated people are now all “elites” that should be ignored???

    C’mon, Hillary, who do you think you’re kidding?

    On top of that you want to force EVERYONE in congress to go on the record on this asanine REPUBLICAN idea?

    This *might* garner you some “blue collar” votes but it ain’t gonna work on the Supers.

    I don’t even understand her strategy anymore– beyond say anything, do anything and promise anything and everything to get votes.

  • Steve, you left out the best part — right after her comments dismissing “elite opinion” she got a question from the audience, from a woman who said she made less than 25K but thought Clinton was pandering to her. “Call me crazy but I actually listen to economists because I think they know what they’ve studied.”

  • “Indeed, the fact that Clinton can make these remarks with a straight face is rather disconcerting.”…………………..Isn’t this almost verbatim as to WHY David Geffen withdraw his Clinton support sometime back. He said it was, “the EASE with which THEY lie,”that troubled him. David Geffen is uber wealthy Hollywood entrepreneur who was,at one time, a major donor and longtime Clintonista.I don’t know if he is subpoened in the imminent trial of Paul vs. Clinton FEC case involving fraud over $1million dollars to Hillary’s Senatorial campaign.THIS IS A HUGE SCANDAL ready to break for the Clintons and Ed Rendell who facilitated the deal.

  • The best part is the voter who followed George’s question, someone making $25,000 a year, who said

    An ordinary voter begged to differ, however. Stephanopoulos turned the mike over to a woman who said she supported Obama and said she makes less than $25,000 a year.

    “I do feel pandered to when you talk about suspending the gas tax,” the woman said, adding: “Call me crazy but I actually listen to economists because I think they know what they’ve studied.”

    More sense than Hillary. I think this will really be the last straw. The media has been reporting it relatively straight, because it is an easy issue, and people can see through it on their own. (Hmmmm– lower the 18c tax, why won’t they just raise prices? And how would we even know?)

  • BTW–Adversity does not necessarily shape character,but most assuredly reveals it..or…the lack thereof.

  • (Hmmmmโ€“ lower the 18c tax, why wonโ€™t they just raise prices?)

    If people actually internalize this, then the 30-year drive for school vouchers is similarly doomed.

    Same basic problem, only with a subsidy.

  • How brilliant is Hillary really, apart from her own delusions of grandeur in her calculated mythmaking? All her books have been ghost written. She failed her D.C bar exams and her one foray into executive policy making, her healthcare plan was an unmitigated disaster.

    It is no wonder that her colleagues, both present and former are less impressed with her, the more they have actually tried to work with her.

    Brad DeLong, distinguished elite wonk blogger and former Clinton Deputy Assistant Director of the Treasury, on his recurring head pounding moment (like Steve Benen’s) to Hillary, ‘Time to Pound My Head Against the Wall Once Again’,

    My two cents’ worth–and I think it is the two cents’ worth of everybody who worked for the Clinton Administration health care reform effort of 1993-1994–is that Hillary Rodham Clinton needs to be kept very far away from the White House for the rest of her life. Heading up health-care reform was the only major administrative job she has ever tried to do. And she was a complete flop at it. She had neither the grasp of policy substance, the managerial skills, nor the political smarts to do the job she was then given. And she wasn’t smart enough to realize that she was in over her head and had to get out of the Health Care Czar role quickly.

  • CB, Callimaco and tom_oftheplains might be on to something. There is a nostalgia that you (and other writers your age) have often expressed about the Clintons that I have always been uncomfortable with (albeit this may just be a difference in political outlook). I may not be much older than you or your blogging peers, but perhaps just old enough to have seen the Clinton years through a lens that wasn’t mostly a comparison to the long drought of reason brought to us by Reagan/Bush. For us, WJC was a fairly large disappointment, and not exactly something to be nostalgic about (again, unless we compare to the son of Bush).

    On the day after the the 1992 election, one of my professors started his class with a little party (replete with apple cider), and I agree than things could have been worse, but this sense of relief, was far from an endorsement of the Clintons’ brand of politics.

  • Oh, come on. Krugman’s been a voice on the good side of many issues for a long time when it hasn’t been popular. We can agree to disagree about his choice of candidate without being insulting.

    Though, after today’s performance from Anti-elitist Hillary, it will be interesting to see Krugman’s reaction.

    It’s disgusting to see Ivy League educated policy wonk Clinton holding high the banner of anti-intellectualism in a pose of populist zeal. Particularly when it doesn’t take being a rocket scientist to figure out for yourself why her gas-tax-holiday proposal is dumb.

    The real elitism is believing the common person is too stupid to see the idea as a bunch of crap.

  • Sorry for heading off topic, but the topic made me think of how Hillary is damaging herself and downticket Democrats should she be the Dem nominee in the fall, which inspired me to try to tabulate the likely advantages and disadvantages of the candidates in the general election.
    (I hope the formatting works)

    ……………………….McCain……………….Clinton………………..Obama
    Age/energy………….Too old & tired………Acceptable…………..Young & energetic
    Motivates +………….Independents………..Dem. base……………New voters, some Reps.
    Motivates -…………..Republ. base………..Repubs………………..Some whites
    Fundraising………….Terrible……………….Strong…………………Fantastic
    ‘Swiftboat’ support?…Massive pro…………Massive against……..Massive against
    Campaign org.?……..Weak………………..Lumbering…………….50 states, grass-roots
    Coat-tails…………….None…………………None…………………..Huge, IMHO
    Pander or Flip-flops…Flip-flops…………….Panders………………Neither
    Policies should be:…Unpopular……………Popular……………….Popular
    Policy reception:……Popular………………Popular……………….Mixed
    Good w/ details?……Terrible……………….Strong………………..Strong
    Good in debates?…..Terrible……………….Great…………………Good
    Good in speeches?…So-so…………………Good…………………Fantastic
    Skeletons?……………Many………………..Many…………………None
    ………………………….but never covered…..but exaggerated……but lots made up
    Media darling?……….Idolized………………Demonized………….Mixed treatment

    What have I left out or where am I wrong? I still think the national election is Obama’s to lose.

  • Motivates + means positive motivation, Motivates – refers to motivation of the opposition.
    ‘Swiftboat’ support refers to independent supporters willing to fund highly negative ads
    Policy reception refered to how voters seem to respond to the candidate’s positions, regardles off whether the policies are good or consistent.

  • The real elitism is believing the common person is too stupid to see the idea as a bunch of crap.

    Ding. And this is “the real Clintons”–they’ll do whatever they need to do to win. Betting on the stupidity, ignorance and anti-intellectualism of the voting public worked for the other Ruling Family, so of course they’ll try it. Principles are for suckers and saps.

    Ten years ago, when sex addict Bill decided to put getting his rocks off over his duties to the country (not to mention his marriage), the same “elitists” he disparages now formed an organization called MoveOn to save his ass. Now they’re the people who “think they are better than everyone else and think they should play by a different set of rules.”

    They’re awful. The Clintons might espouse marginally preferable policies to McCain, but they’re no more likely to show the strength and leadership our country needs to meet its challenges. And I trust them even less than I do the Republicans–who merit no trust at all.

  • I used to be comforted by the knowledge that even if Hillary succeeded in tearing the party apart, alienating the black vote for years, and pushing us further towards a royal-family based government, she would at least enact sensible policies.

    But if she’s this far down the dishonest and cynical road in the primary, I have to suspect that she’ll run on an anti-abortion platform in the general, and will probably talk about how reasonable it is to teach intelligent design as well. Ugh. She’s leapfrogged Lieberman and is still running to the right.

    This is a very depressing development. In the hopefully-unlikely event that she wins the primary, we’ll have gone from a Democratic primary battle where I thought either candidate would be fine to a general election where either candidate is going to be four more years of cynical spin and a focus on corporate profits at the expense of society.

  • But there is every reason to believe the common American does believe “this crap” — there is no other explanation for 8 years of W (or, for that matter, Reagan. Or even for McCain winning the nomination.)

    Clinton is making a purely callous electoral calculation, something politicians do everyday: she saw how Bush beat Gore and Kerry, and in fact it is pretty hard to come up with a counter-example — where someone lost by being anti-intellectual and populist or won by being an egghead (Dukakis was nothing if not an egghead, after all). She realizes it is easy to paint Obama into that “thinks too much” box, and that particularly in places like Pennsylvania, Indiana, even N Carolina, that the egghead thing doesn’t play so well.

    Yes, it would be best if all candidates pushed back against this horrible anti-intellectualism among the American electorate. But it is asking a lot to expect a candidate trying to come from behind to forego what is proven to work in election after election. As long as the American Electorate is, indeed, anti-intellectual, politicians will run anti-intellectual campaigns. If Obama wraps this up, and then beats McCain, maybe next cycle anti-intellectualism wont be as attractive as a strategy (although I suspect it may take several cycles of losses for candidates to truly give up on anti-intellectualism given its long list of prior successes). The change has to come from the electorate — it needs to redeem itself for 2000 and 2004.

  • It is posts like this. these are the posts that make me call you the best and most thoughtful blogger in the business!!!!!

  • N. Wells,

    Obviously using one word to categorize each candidate in these areas is going to lead to some over-simplification, as well as disagreement based upon one’s perspective. A few comments on your table:

    I would also put independents under who Obama motivates. One key to the election is that Obama and McCain can both attract independents. This might be the key one as to why Obama can compete in the general election but Clinton will have considerable difficulty.

    For now McCain’s fund raising is terrible. I wouldn’t count on this persisting once we are in a general election campaign.

    There’s no doubt McCain has flip flopped but I’m less down on him for this than many others. First of all, since he has been in public life a lot longer there is far more time for him to have changed views on some issues. Secondly, some of the flip flops can be better understood by seeing him as a conservative in the Burke tradition. It makes sense that he would oppose the Bush tax cuts at first but that once they are established would be reluctant to make a change.

    The other explanation for this change in position on tax cuts could be pandering. While not as bad as Clinton, McCain is pandering to the significant portions of the Repubican base which cares more tax cuts than anything else. He’s also pandered to the religious right from time to time.

    On policy reception there is a difference between the primary race and general election. Clinton’s policies are better accepted by hard line Democrats than Obama’s. However the same things which bring about opposition to some of Obama’s policies in the party will help him considerably in a general election campaign.

    Regarding negative motivation, there is an editorial in the NY Times which shows that Obama’s negatives among whites have been equally balanced by increased positive support when compared to last summer. The marked change is that there is a tremendous increase in Clinton’s negatives among blacks.

    Another factor is that her positives with the Dem base really applies to a portion (although major portion) of the Democratic base. She does well with downscale and less educated Democrats. She does poorly with upscale and educated Democrats along with blacks. In a normal election year, the establishment Democrat who does better with the downscale voters will win the nomination. However adding the blacks to the upscale educated Democrats has given Obama a coalition which appears to be leading to the rare outcome of the insurgent candidate beating the establishment candiate. In many ways Clinton versus Obama is a lot like Bill Clinton versus Paul Tsongas in 1992. The difference is that Obama is more charismatic than Tsongas, allowing him to bring in the new voters, and Obama brings in the black vote.

  • Since when did “elite” refer to intellectuals or those educated informed individuals who determine policies. “Elite” has traditionally referred to those who think they are above all the other classes and consider themselves the “ruling class”, the extremely wealthy who should not be bothered with laws and rules and such. They are the class of kings and do whatever they want never concerning themselves with the plight of the people. I wouldn’t want someone just like me running things as Jon Stewart says. ” If you aren’t smarter than us, if you don’t think your better than us, then what the hell are you doing wanting to run the country?”
    I sure as hell don’t want to have a leader I can have a beer with, or a shot.

    Is this like trying to make the word “elite” have a negative connotation and then use the term to identify others with? Like Satan is normal and God is elite.

    Rep. Gov in MO (leaving office thank god, to spend more time with…you guessed it, what’d you expect…it’s MO where our republican controlled senator has a D after her name.. U know Miss “telecom immunity and support the war till it’s over” McCaskill) has decided to take the state tax off of a gal of gas for the tax holiday when most of our bridges are collapsing and our roads are ignored just to save us 3 cents on a gal of gas…brilliant, just brilliant and helps so much. Hell, I might even save $20-40 to apply to the axle that breaks from hitting the pot holes in the neglected roads. Brilliant…just brilliant. I got an idea…let’s take the &13.6 billion in profits from Exxon/Mobile and apply it to the price of gas nation wide. “These economic royalists….

  • biggerbox: Oh, come on. Krugmanโ€™s been a voice on the good side of many issues for a long time when it hasnโ€™t been popular. We can agree to disagree about his choice of candidate without being insulting.

    The same can be said about Sydney Blumenthal who, according to Peter Dreier is now acting this way:

    “A decade later, and now acting as a senior campaign advisor to Senator Clinton, Blumenthal is exploiting that same right-wing network to attack and discredit Barack Obama. And he’s not hesitating to use the same sort of guilt-by-association tactics that have been the hallmark of the political right dating back to the McCarthy era.”

    You are only as good as the latest evil you’ve loaned yourself out to…
    But let’s get back to Krugman. Here he is on May 2 with emphasis added:

    To be clear, both Democratic candidates have been saying things they shouldnโ€™t; Hillary Clinton shouldnโ€™t have endorsed the bad idea of a gas tax holiday. But I think Mr. Obama is doing much more harm to the Democratic cause by echoing Republican attack lines on such issues as insurance mandates and Social Security. And now heโ€™s demonstrating his post-partisanship by giving Republicans credit for good ideas they never had.

    That’s sophistry at worst and drivel at best. I thought Mark Kleiman had the killer comeback quote on empowering republican talking points:

    Anyone (I’m looking at you, Paul Krugman) who ever criticized Obama for “repeating Republican talking points” ought to switch sides now. It may be true that, as Krugman says, financing the tax holiday with a windfall profits tax on oil companies makes it “pointless rather than evil,” but deceiving the voters is worse than pointless, and doing so in a way that supports the idea that every problem can be fixed with the appropriate tax cut is an endorsement of the ultimate Republican talking point.

    Given Hillary’s anti-Obama gun mailer today, one wonders if Krugman is a proud pistol owner too, and will write about the joys of shooting tomorrow. As for what Blumenthal is now machinating behind the scenes, who can say? They’ve both traded in their ethics for expediency. That’s not the conscience of liberals. That’s the conscience of right-wing cads.

  • Re comment # 2 (“Itโ€™s interesting. This is the first issue where Hillary supporters and fence-sitters have been clearly disgusted by Senator Clinton.”)

    Actually there have been a steady stream of issues which have gotten more and more people off the bench.

    For much of the liberal blogosphere, her support for the war was the major issue, causing them to oppose Clinton from the start.

    Once we actually got into the primary race it was largely matters of dishonesty in her campaign which gradually got many people to oppose her. There has been a long series of events, with different people getting off the bench over different ones.

    The gas tax holiday has influenced others. Some were willing to look the other way at her tactics and dishonesty, thinking that it was acceptable if they got the policies they want. For those who did not see it before–and there has already been considerable evidence–the gas tax holiday demonstates that for Clinton policies are something whch are advocated to maximize political gain. It also shows that while she can come across as being more knowlegeable about the issues, she lacks the judgement to use this knowledge to formulate good policies.

    There were many warnings of her use of policy proposals for poltiical gain regardless of compromising princiles in the past. There’s been her support for anti-flag burning legislation and her crusade against video games. One clear sign of the Clinton’s use of policy as a political tool was during the 2004 election when Bill Clinton advised John Kerry to support the anti-gay marriage amendments in the states where they were on the ballot in order to pick up more votes. Kerry refused to compromise principles in this manner, but does anyone have any doubt that Hillary would have been willing to go along?

  • Thanks Ron. I essentially agree with most of your points. As you note, summarizing leads to oversimplification.

    Although Obama has a good record with Independents, I fear McCain will do better, because I think his “maverick” label will stay intact, and independents tend to be either conservative or “a plague on both their houses” types.

    A lot of McCain’s flip-flops are since the 2000 campaign and many are in this campaign, so I think they are recent enough to hurt.

    A lot of big-money business donors will get in line behind McCain, but as long as the Democrat looks competitive, that candidate will get many business donations as well, ‘for insurance’.

    If Clinton wins, I’d expect her to get eventual less than fully enthusiastic African-American support, but at about the levels that Kerry got, which may be enough for her.

  • The elitism thing is funny for a simple reason: it requires voters to accept the opinion of someone else, essentially asking them to give up their own, potentially uninformed, opinion.

    But there is something Obama could do to totally destroy the elitism cause: throw it back in their face. Obama could say “those who want to pander to you on gas taxes think you can’t understand the bigger issues, so they simplify it for you, this is elitist. They think you are too busy to be interested in the details, too self-interested, too short sighted, too petty. They think you would decide who to vote for based on thirty cents a day, ten dollars a month, thirty dollars during the summer.”

  • I’m starting to think Obama advocates are so in love with their choice that they cannot see beyond the end of their noses anymore.

    What’s going to happen this fall if Obama is the nominee? His opposition to this token gas measure that had no chance of passing anyhow will be hammered on his head constantly, and the dumb folks who typically buy into idiotic Republican circular logic will believe it. They will.

    It’s not about who’s right, here, and as Obama was criticizing the Reverend for not seeing the big picture, Obama supporters need to start acting like saavy politicos if they plan on beating (or helping to beat) the GOP in November. There is a bigger picture to worry about here. History will not remember who won this argument.

    Let’s start thinking about the best way to beat the Republicans once and for all rather than quibble about puerile policy points that will in no way help us to take back the nation that Bush has put on the path to ruination. How’s that sound?

    One more point I’d like to make hearing Obama’s “pulling the band-aid off quick” comment on MTP this morning, and this is addressed specifically to his supporters; if Obama is the best chance the Democrats have this fall as you all rabidly advocate, and considering he unsuccessfully tried to distance himself more than once from his church controversy, why should anyone believe this guy has the political smarts to beat McCain, especially when we know they are going to throw everything they can at us? So far Hillary has been nice considering what is to come, and a problem that could easily have been overcome by good vetting and preparation is now a looming threat to Obama’s candidacy. This will surely effect Democrats’ overall chances in the fall.

    If he fairs so poorly on his own record and with a relatively “friendly” opponent (Hillary can only be so negative if she intends to get his supporters later) how can we trust such an important election to him?

    These are not rhetorical points. With a good answer I could be swayed, but thus far Obama has not presented a credible argument, or any kind of empirical formula for electoral success.

  • “why should anyone believe this guy has the political smarts to beat McCain”

    One reason is that he’s managed to beat the Clinton machine. It takes considerable political smarts for someone as new to the national scene as him to accomplish this.

    Maybe Obama will be hurt by not pandering as Clinton does. Let’s say for the sake fo discussion that Clinton’s dishonesty (on the gas tax and so many other matters) really did make her a stronger general election candiate. I still wouldn’t want her to have the nomination. Someone that capaigns like this will govern like this, making her no better than Bush and McCain in my book. I’d rather gamble on Obama than go with Clinton even if I thought Clinton had a better chance of winnnig.

    Of course I do not think that Clinton has a better chance of success. Her dishonesty and dirty campaign will make it much harder for her to beat McCain, who will be portrayed as the straight talker. In comparison to Clinton, McCain is the honest straight talker.

    I’d rather take the chance that Americans are sick and tired of Rove/Clinton politics and will back Obama while they will not back Clinton.

    “thus far Obama has not presented a credible argument, or any kind of empirical formula for electoral success.”

    He certainly has. He’s pulled in the independents and new voters, along with beating Clinton. Either candidate can win in the traditional strong Democratic areas in the general election. Only Obama has a chance of challenging McCain for the independent vote. Clinton’s strategy worked for Bill because they had a three way race. It is much riskier in a head to head battle against a Republican like McCain who also brings in independent voters.

  • N. Wells,

    If this was a nomination battle where Obama did well but came in a clear second to Clinton then I agree that she would continue to get traditional levels of black support.

    The problem this year is that there is no longer a way in which Clinton can win the nomination without giving the impression (probably correct) that the nomination was stolen from Obama. I suspect that black voters who might accept losing in a fair fight will not accept having the nomination stolen and black turn out for Clinton will be well below Kerry’s levels.

    I think Obama will do better with independents than McCain. The war will be one issue where Obama has the edge. Independents also tend to be more socially liberal than the Republicans. Unless McCain moves more towards the center (risking having the religious right stay home) this will also give Obama a big edge.

    Another factor is that Obama is bringing in many independents who did not vote in the past, increasing his edge over McCain. Like blacks, this is another group which will probably stay home if Clinton as opposed to Obama is the nominee

  • Looking back at the above from Mike Kuykendall this really is a bizarre argument coming from the Clinton camp.

    The argument is based upon a flawed assumption when they question Obama’s political abilities because he can’t beat Clinton. They ignore the key fact that Obama is beating Clinton and, barring a major change in the race, should be the nominee.

    They ignore the opposite and more relevant question: If Clinton can’t even beat Obama, who they deride as being too young and experienced, how could she possibly be competive against someone with McCain’s experience?

  • The above should say:

    They ignore the opposite and more relevant question: If Clinton canโ€™t even beat Obama, who they deride as being too young and inexperienced, how could she possibly be competive against someone with McCainโ€™s experience?

  • So far Hillary has been nice considering what is to come, and a problem that could easily have been overcome by good vetting and preparation is now a looming threat to Obamaโ€™s candidacy. This will surely effect Democratsโ€™ overall chances in the fall.

  • The sooner we can get the real Clinton back, the better.

    Steve, this IS the real Clinton

  • Oops. Got cut off. Regarding the comments in #50 about how Obama hasn’t been vetted.

    At this point in time it is Obama that has been thoroughly vetted but, ironically, Hillary has not. The GOP and right-wing have been defeaningly SILENT about her and the Clinton Administration record in general this entire primary. For pete’s sake, both Rush Limabugh and Pat Buchanan PRAISE HER now. They know her negatives are high, most people already do not trust her, and the Clinton’s baggage goes back DECADES. Plus she’s running on the Clinton Administration record as her own so she is accountable for ANYTHING and EVERYTHING done during that time. Plus none of it has been mentioned in so long that it will be treated as “new” again. Can’t say that about Wright, Ayers, flag pins, etc. There is a very good chance it will all be treated as “old” news and make them look desperate.

    The Clintons were attacked for a lot of years unfairly, however, it’s easy to forget that they also did a lot of really stupid, craven things while in power. Bill’s 11th hour pardons? Yup, plus a lot of them turned around and gave money to her senate campaign coffers. Rewarding big donors with sleepovers in the Lincoln Bedroom? She was there. Commuting the sentences of FALN terrorists is WAY WORSE than Obama’s acquaintence with Bill Ayres. Not to mention Bill’s infidelity problem. Do we know if he has cheated on her in the past 8 years? Considering he has been cheating on her since the early days of their marriage do you think he’s been faithful since he left the spotlight? That will be used to humiliate her and remind everyone of a very miserable time in our history.

    The GOP has been actively working on Hillary’s behalf because they know she is the key to getting their whole party– and a lot of independents– motivated to vote enthusiasitcally for McCain. They need her to have a halfway decent shot.

    Thanks to Hillary and the GOP Obama’s “baggage” has been revealed for everyone to see and the GOP risks looking like a bunch of demagoguing racists if they keep hammering away at Wright, etc. But the Clintons? Remember “Clinton fatigue”? It was real and will be tapped into once again.

  • Steve — “rather disturbing” her comments? You want the good Hillary, the one with “depth of knowledge”? Please. How smart is she, really? Voting to let G.W. Bush (of all people) decide if we should go to war? Voting for Kyl-Lieberman? Insisting (last year) that we’re “safer” now than we were before 9/11? Saying she’d “totally obliterate” a country under certain circumstances? Insisting (also last year) — and the people at my house laughed out loud — that surely no one would think she’d give special treatment to drug companies just because she took their lobbying money? Praising Hair Trigger McCain as presidential material over the judicious and Democratic Obama? Echoing the ruinous language and attitude of G.W. Bush, about people being “either with us or against us” on the bone-headed gas tax “relief” which would not only cost $9 billion but take money and much-needed jobs away from infrastructure repairs? All this sounds not smart at all to me.
    What’s at issue is the essential question on ends and means. Means matter. That is why we have a Bill of Rights, Miranda warnings, the right not to be spied on or held without due process. That is why torture is supposed to be against the law. Clearly, means are — not “seem” but are, awful as it is to admit — irrelevant to Clinton: ends only matter. This includes trademark Bush smears by innuendo and a patently false folksiness. So she invokes fond memories of shooting guns with her grandpa just like regular folk — at his “vacation home,” and how many Americans can afford a second home? many are right now losing their only homes. She went to Wellesley, an elite private college, then Yale, not exactly a just folks institution. She was Arkansas first lady, U.S. First Lady, and is now a member of the elite 100 U.S. Senator club, greeted at every stop with bouquets and, sometimes, poems. Certainly she thinks she’s smart; apparently, too, she thinks we’re dumb enough to agree. Primaries are useful: we see the real candidate. Like what you see?

  • There is a reason why most economists are Republicans, with a few Libertarians. Those who study consumption, business trends, world markets, etc., are not people much interested in social problems. I wouldn’t expect them to have much sympathy for the individuals who endure the consequences of the trends they study. If they were interested in such things, they would be sociologists.

    Clinton is not being callous or egotistical. She is treating this as a political issue instead of an economic issue. There is a different set of concerns, a different set of rules. It isn’t that people are too unintelligent to follow the economic arguments — they clearly understand that there is more to life than economics, especially when would-be leaders insist on treating them like numbers instead of like people.

    Everyone knows you have to raise taxes sometimes, but no politician wins an election saying “We must raise taxes,” even when right about it. Obama is trying to do exactly that and it shows what an amateur he is. Schwartzenegger won by repealing a small car tax that the state needed in order to balance its budget. He is now in worse trouble than Grey Davis and will have to raise taxes soon. Obama is running the same kind of race Grey Davis did because he is too stupid to listen to the political wonks — all of whom are undoubtedly giving different advice than the economists.

    If a man can’t get himself elected, he can’t be president. If Obama would rather please the handful of economists than the millions of voters, he won’t win. That sort of choice is why people call him an elitist.

  • Susan, I agree with you. Kyl-Lieberman was the single worst vote, IMHO. I can understand the initial vote for war in Iraq. I thought it was wrong at the time, but one has to go back to what and where our country was (psychologically) at the time. It was a bad vote and there were a few people who stood up to principle (and thoughtfulness) – and who paid for it (just think Dixie Chicks in political terms). The extreme levels of nationalistic thought at the time was stunning (and pretty frightening, too). And it still is.

    All I can say about elitism is it has been changed from a bad word for being above it all to a really bad word for being smart. No, I don’t want an elitist president, but I most certainly want a very smart person with an even greater amount of common sense – and that common sense does not come in an off-the-cuff comment about preemptively nuking another country. WTF? And what happened to our country when not only do we not tar and feather supporters of torture but we embrace it and have discussions about its benefit?

    As for the Bill of Rights, well, it’s not only Republicans who suck. We are reaching a point in our country where the BoR is but a piece of crap document much like the Constitution is…for this admin does nothing but wipe its collective asses with both.

    The power vested in the POTUS has gotten to the point of despotism and we have to be very careful who winds up with that power and what they will do with it. This next election is one of the most critical in my lifetime.

    There are times that I think Hils is trying to win 2008 so that the goopers can get the WH back in 2012. I am starting to think that this is some great plan to permanently screw this country. Sorry, call me a tin hat person but I think the friendship that Clinton 1 has with Bush 1 is a little too cozy for comfort.

    And with the neocon’s and right-wing press support for Hils, it does little to quell those fears.

  • Her proposal was a checkmate to McCain’s proposal. He was going to win over the angry man at the gas pump by proposing a tax break he knew wouldn’t fly. She had the political smarts to undercut him by saying the costs for the cut would be passed on to the oil barons. This was a smart move the way I see it. It doesn’t matter that her plan won’t fly. What matters is that she one-ups McCain in the political arena.

  • You know Mary, I’ll bet we’re the closest you get to a “conversation” with people, since I am sure that no one who knows you would willingly be around you unless their work required it.

    You are a Bullshitter, as commented upon by Harry G. Frankfurt in “On Bullshit”:

    Bullshit is unavoidable whenever circumstances require someone to talk
    without knowing what he is talking about. Thus the production of
    bullshit is stimulated whenever a person’s obligations or
    opportunities to speak about some topic are more excessive than his
    knowledge of the facts that are relevant to that topic. This
    discrepancy is common in public life, where people are frequently
    impelled — whether by their own propensities or by the demands of
    others — to speak extensively about matters of which they are to some
    degree ignorant. Closely related instances arise from the widespread
    conviction that it is the responsibility of a citizen in a democracy
    to have opinions about everything, or at least everything that
    pertains to the conduct of his country’s affairs. The lack of any
    significant connection between a person’s opinions and his
    apprehension of reality will be even more severe, needless to say, for
    someone who believes it his responsibility, as a conscientious moral
    agent, to evaluate events and conditions in all parts of the world.

    And of course, being a Bullshitter yourself, it is obvious why you are attracted to the King and Queen of Bullshit – Mr. and Mrs. Billy-J

    You are so obtusely stupid Mary, that you could only be employed in academia – no place else would have you.

  • Polls are showing that the independents are going back to McCain and the kids are not voting (short attention spans). As the magic wears off, Obama is seeming less like the miracle maker and more like just another politician, especially given his own lies and pandering.

    For example, older voters don’t go for Obama because he and Michelle keep saying that Clinton’s term was no better than the Republican terms. We all know that is untrue because we were politically active then, unlike Obama’s youthful enthusiasts. He has to say that in order to undercut Hillary’s experience claims, but it is factually wrong and so clearly a lie that it undermines his credibility with those who have independent knowledge. You can keep calling Hillary a liar, but Obama lies too, for self-serving political reasons. Every time someone here calls Hillary a liar, I hear Obama telling us all that he didn’t know what Wright was saying in his sermons all those 20 years. Lies come in shades of gray, made for a variety of purposes. Adults are capable of evaluating that, so screeching that Hillary lies is an announcement of immaturity — sort of like wailing that the world is unfair.

  • Tom Cleaver, if you had an argument to counter my remarks you would have used it. If you can’t attack the message, attack the messenger. I can always tell when one of my posts hits a sore spot. People like you and Maria use uglier, more personal attacks. To get psychological, it makes you anxious when you feel like your guy might lose, so you lash out and try to destroy the threat. What I don’t understand, however, is why you are so ego-invested in Obama’s success. You might ask yourself what Obama means to you, what he stands for, because that is what is threatened here, not some obscure Illinois congressman’s next job.

  • Tom @63. Great post.

    There are times the circular logic is stunning in its ability to completely obfuscate reality. Truthiness is a glorious thing for those who can’t accept truth. The illusion of bullshit is so much better than the bitterness of reality.

    I had the unfortunate experience of knowing someone who felt that reality is something for people who lack imagination…to which I can’t help but think; Imagination is for those who can’t handle reality.

  • Mary, Obama means nothing to me but everything to our country. You see everything in the oddest of frames. I have no investment in any candidate but I have wholehearted investment in this country.

    Young people not voting. Time – and the candidate – will tell on that one. Clinton won’t get the young vote, especially with her old school, scorched earth tactics. Obama has them coming out in droves.

    While you may not see value in our youth, I do…they ARE our future. And the more involvement they have in our process the better.

  • When are you folks going to realize that Mary works for the Clintons. Nobody in their right mind would keep trying to come up with such nonsense unless they had too and were being paid to it.

  • just guessing (emphasis added):

    When are you folks going to realize that Mary works for the Clintons. Nobody in their right mind would keep trying to come up with such nonsense unless they had too and were being paid to it.

    I take it the pun was intended.

  • @ 63: You are so obtusely stupid Mary, that you could only be employed in academia

    Oh no, not academia. Not those terrible, terrible people who spend their time studying and learning and teaching. You sure you’re not with Hillary on this whole “elite opinion” issue? You goddamn retard. If we want to fix the problems that have been brought about by a proudly-ignorant President, it may just be that we’re going to need some academics.

    What in the hell is wrong with this country when ignorance is seen as the right and proper condition for people?

    No, I don’t agree with Mary either. Not everyone in your so-called “academia” is on the right side of things. But I’m sick and fucking tired of being sneered at because I worked long and hard on an advanced education.

  • zoe at 57: In addition to the list of old dirt/pseudo dirt items about the Clintons that are sure to be raised again in spades, there will be questions about recent potential conflicts of interest: close examinations of where the $109 mil came from, what was expected in return for these wildly overpriced speeches, who has donated to the library (a list Bill refuses to release), various Clinton papers that have inexplicably not been released, etc.

    The GOP will have no shortage of perceived ammunition against the Clintons. Much of it is not old news, and it will be added to the old news rather than replacing it. The things that Obama has thought were out of bounds will not be for the GOP.

    It would be a field day for the right. Fortunately, the supers know this, and have added it to their long lists of why Clinton is the weaker candidate.

  • Matt: Stay calm. Tom Cleaver’s opinion on academia does not represent the majority view here. Most of us are quite respectful of the academy and quite capable of recognizing that Mary (should she actually have fallen through the cracks of higher education rather than, as is more likely, faking a persona) is a major anomaly in her thoroughgoing irrationality and lack of utility.

  • Mary,

    You’re the worst kind of Hillary apologist– it’s impossible to have a discussion with someone who thinks Hillary is INFALLIBLE and CAN DO NO WRONG while accusing others of worshipping Obama.

    I hope they’re paying you well.

  • Interesting take from Chris Bowers on Clinton’s right-wing approach to the question of “elitism”:

    Hillary Clinton casts economists as elites whose opinions always diverge from policies that would benefit “hard working Americans.” The problem with this formulation isn’t the use of the term “elite,” but rather that by attacking academics it fits the conservative model of elite rather than the progressive model of elite. Here is a crude sketch:

    * Elites for conservatives: Liberals, academics, judges, the entertainment industry, journalists, and the arugula / Belgian endive / wine set.
    * Elites for progressives: Higher-ups in large corporations, most national media pundits, political insiders, and wealthy donors.

    Clinton’s formulation really rubs me the wrong way because casting economists as the elitists is much closer to the conservative formulation of elites who run the country than it is to the progressive formulation of elites who run the country. Clinton is trying to frame the gas tax holiday as “taking on the oil companies,” which is a working class, progressive populist position. However, when it turns into taking on academics, the framing takes a sharp turn to the right where study and science are discounted, even scoffed at.

  • Matt (#71) said: Oh no, not academia. Not those terrible, terrible people who spend their time studying and learning and teaching. You sure youโ€™re not with Hillary on this whole โ€œelite opinionโ€ issue? You goddamn retard. If we want to fix the problems that have been brought about by a proudly-ignorant President, it may just be that weโ€™re going to need some academics.

    As someone with three college degrees, I know entirely too well that of which I speak. The truth is, every campus as 3-4 professors who are worth the time it takes to take their classes. The rest are otherwise-unemployable timeservers who would be living under a freeway overpass were it not for the Great God of Tenure.

  • At some point, those who do not repudiate her racist McCarthyism and dishonest divisive campaign will be exposed under the bright cleansing light of day.

    Shame on Evan Bayhโ€ฆ he is continuing the Racist baiting. Disgusting.
    They are tearing the Democratic party apart for their very remote chance of the nomination. How selfish and disgusting.

    Clintons and Rove do not have a monopoly on retribution. Obama would not think in terms of retribution. But many of his supporters are keeping score and will exact retribution to show that the Clinton McCarthyism, Racism and Rovian tactics will not go unnoticed or unpunished.

    Those who do not repudiate her campaign will find that they have limited political careers and will be on the outside looking in, wishing they had done the right thing.

    Joe Andrew joins the ranks of American and Dem hero, standing up to the threats and thugishness of the Clintons. IF SHE HAD HER WAY, SHE WOULD HAVE THE HOUSE SHE BET ON AND DIED PUT IN HIS BED. MAFIOSO CLINTO THUGS. PUTIN HAS NOTHING ON THESE TWO PUKES

    They have already come back and tried to knee cap him, slimy as their are.

    They have become the Brownshirts of the Democratic party.

    Franco Mussolini Billary Clinton. Your doing a heck of a job for McCain.

    What none of us progressives and those who are desperate for an end and alternative to the Buch/Cheney/Rove era want to admit:

    The fact that she was even a serious option in this election demonstrates how utterly weak the โ€œDemocraticโ€ Party/Leadership is. The Clintons pretty much limited, if not destroyed the Democratic Partyโ€™s effectiveness and legitimacy as a powerful leadership party since 1992 and the Gingrich Republican Landslide. The Clinton years to follow were just a slow but steady corrupt decline, and laid the ground for the reign of Little George.

    And here they are againโ€”record high negatives, devise and partisan, but not only on the broader political spectrum— coalescing the Nation against the worst Administration ever, but rather grotesque fratricide– shattering and alienating two core pillars of the Party โ€” blue collar/working class and African Americans.

    Hillary and Bill are truly selfish and awful. But the โ€œDemocratic Partyโ€ is also showing itself to be fucking lame and impotent in the extreme. If there was ever a chance for a forceful reemergence, this was it. Instead, the Democratic Party is coming across as completely incompetent, with an eager willingness to a return of cronyism and opportunist Rove politics for the sole sake of power.

    Mayor Bloomberg and Senator Hagel, please do not give up consideration of a third party run.

  • @ 73: Matt: Stay calm.

    It’s a bit of a hot button for me (you, ah, might have noticed), and the cumulative strain of the article and comment thread was too much for my tiny elitist brain to handle. It doesn’t help that I have a short fuse.

    There’s nothing magical about academia. You find the same sorts of people there that you find in any profession; the uniting theme is that education and knowledge are good things. The manner in which you use them is another matter entirely, of course, and inevitably they will be misused. But the idea of academia has been under attack in popular politics for a long time, and it makes me sick to see it.

  • Has elite come to mean someone who can actually form a thought,wears shoes, and have more than 10 teeth?

  • @ 76: As someone with three college degrees, I know entirely too well that of which I speak. The truth is, every campus as 3-4 professors who are worth the time it takes to take their classes. The rest are otherwise-unemployable timeservers who would be living under a freeway overpass were it not for the Great God of Tenure.

    Actually, I was unusually fortunate in my professors. Not all of them are winners, of course, but they can’t all be gold anywhere, in any profession.

    But doesn’t it make your blood boil to be looked down on because you think that factual knowledge might be more important than ideology? To be referred to as an elitist just because you know enough to know that the most popular idea isn’t necessarily the right one?

    (I apologize for the “retard” comment, by the way. Way out of line. But not for the rest of my rant. My wrath in this case is of the righteous variety.)

  • I understand, Matt. But when it becomes too much for you, you might try to remember that wholesale dissing of academia isn’t usually a progressive pastime.

    When liberals or self-described liberals do it, they tend to be either using GOP talking points to justify a rabidly conservative position held by a specific Democrat, as Clinton and Mary are doing now (and if Mary really is an academic, this represents a level of emotional and intellectual whoring for a candidate I’ve been privileged never to encounter before), or simply engaging in sweeping and sophomoric pronouncements about entire professions or demographics, as Tom is wont to do.

    That is to say, misguided liberals may take pot shots at academia, but rarely because of the deep-seated dislike and distrust of knowledge, learning and critical analysis that seems to power so many of today’s conservatives.

    Hmmmm, I don’t know if that makes it better or worse, come to think of it.

  • I am a “mature” woman that will absolutley have to hold my nose to vote for Hillary
    I lost all respect for her when she used GOP tactics and a smear campaign to tear down Obama. Talk about pandering she is sending out total lies about Obama here in Indiana and the sad thing is some of these “bitter” folks will believe her
    As far as I am concerned she is tearing my party apart.I think the GOP is right now she will do ANYTHING to get the nomination.
    Here is the sad part the GOP is being easy on her now because they think they can beat her. So do I.

  • Mary, like it or not, young people are allowed to vote and it does you (or the Clinton campaign) no good to act as if that’s some kind of ill-advised fluke.

    Young people are the ones dying in Iraq, their friends are dying in Iraq, and it’s their futures that they’re voting for. It is SO typical-Clinton-supporter of you to act as if the youth vote is meaningless, and it’s incredibly offensive. I don’t know where you got the impression that people under a certain age can’t possibly be informed about politics, but it’s so, so wrong. Please stop.

  • I am sick of goody two shoes Democrats who keep losing. So what if the gas tax holiday is pandering? It is a minor measure, a side show that is a useful symbol to indicate that the Democrats are on the side of common people. And it’s not like Clinton doesn’t have a long term energy plan. She and Obama both have practically identical plans to fight global warming– cap and trade. The only difference is, he plans to use the proceeds to fund renewable energy research, and she plans to use the money to cushion the impact of higher energy prices for low and middle income people. (Her renewable energy research money would come out of general funds.) Both plans are laudable but I think hers has a better chance of actually passing, because you know the Republicans would come at any plan, claiming it will increase prices for the middle class. I can just see the ads now– the Harry and Louise of global warming.

    McCain supports the gas tax holiday. How are those ads of his going to play in November, if the Democratic nominee was against it? The saints of the Democratic party who can’t abide a little good old fashioned pandering risk losing us the election–again.

  • …. yeah yeah the cunt is smart but as stated she is a cunt … and cunt trumps smart always …. need I say mo’?

  • Anyone who refers to a woman by a vile sexist term need not say more, ever. All is revealed by such terminology.

  • Heh. Out of the top 6 of the latest polls Obama is either tied with or beating Hillary– in the NYT polls he’s leading her 50-38! (Might be an outlier, obviously.) However, if you average all of them he’s still leading her by 3.

    However, there is ONE poll that has Hillary ahead by 3– FoxNews.

    Need we say more?

    Looks like Obama is likely bouncing back from his short Wright-related slip in the polls.

  • “Elitism” was coined by the Republicans long ago to mean pointy headed, intelligent,
    innovative, humanistic, nerdy individuals they needed to characterize as losers.
    Like kids in the black community who,in times past, accepted that it was not
    “cool” to be academic. This attitude deflected attention from the privileged status of many
    republican millionaire politicians, and still does. This anti-intellectual attitude may
    may well have influenced the the prevailing attitude toward providing all our children
    with a real education that prepares them as contributing members of society. Not a
    prescription program, No Child Left Behind, a sound good phrase meaning mediocre.
    We should be educating all our children to be elites.Definition: group of people considered
    to be the best in a particular society or category, esp. because of their power, talent,

  • Mostly I just read along and don’t participate in the discussions here too much. I find that most of the good folks here have already stated how I feel about things much more eloquently than I could ever dream of. But there’s something that seems incredibly obvious to me that I haven’t seen many people discuss…

    Premise #1: In most polls related to public policy, Obama crushes Hillary in a heads-up scenario.

    Premise #2: In most polls related to public policy, Obama crushes McCain in a heads-up scenario.

    Premise #3: To individuals in politics (ie. their livelihood), winning the Presidency is more important than public policy, ’cause really, how much are you going to change in 4 years anyway? But hey! “Former President Mr./Ms. ___________” is FOREVER.

    Therefore: If NEITHER can beat Obama, than maybe together than can tear him down enough to render the point moot, create a McCain v. Clinton election, and guarantee that ONE of them gets the win. But if left on their own, NEITHER have a chance.

    Sounds like a opportunity for a backroom deal to me. They are terrified of this young guy!

    Now, I’m not normally a “conspiracy theory” kind of chap, but the way Hillary and McCain seem to be getting into step together in the last few weeks is starting to make me wonder.

    It’s getting to where I would not be surprised if next week Hillary calls Obama’s ideas on healthcare “socialist”.

    Ok, sorry for the overly obvious (or paranoid) drivel. That’s it for me for another month or two…

  • Civil Disobedience, I have been saying that for a couple of weeks now. There is something very odd about Hils picking up all the gooper memes, saying McCain would be a good CIC, was prepared and all that crap.

    I don’t think it’s paranoid drivel, I think it’s playing out just as you said.

  • from Eleanor @90: “We should be educating all our children to be elites.Definition: group of people considered to be the best in a particular society or category, esp. because of their power, talent,”

    YES! Thank you! I’m sick of the language being butchered. But CNN, Fox, etc need their buzzwords to get the right people fired up! “They” want us all to speak english, but most of them can’t do it correctly anyway!

    I find it hilarious that the word “elite” in and of itself is a positive thing (an “elite” olympic swimmer, or an “elite” musician), but the word “elitist” is a bad thing??? Very strange language…

    Again from #90: “…accepted that it was not โ€œcoolโ€ to be academic…”

    And what could be the major downfall of our civilization. When the entertainers are consider the loftiest goal to shoot for, things often go ill. See: the Roman Empire.

  • Thanks Ms. Joanne. I forgot about the CIC argument a couple of months ago too.

    A line in one of my favorite young teen movies, “The Karate Kid” (ok, dated myself a bit) is “Pat” Morita’s line when confronting the bad guy about ganging up on Daniel: “one-to-one problem ok, FIVE-to-one problem too much ask anyone.”

    Obama v. anyone ok. Obama v. McCain, Clinton, Bush, Newt, O’Reilly, Fox and the rest of MSM (or as you rightly re-dubbed them CM) too much to ask anyone! Please Obama, DON’T BACK DOWN!

    You are among the ones with which I find myself nodding vigorously most often BTW, I like the looks and content of your “Think Left. Live Right” creation. Your writing on “water is not a right” is a must read! Stay with it!

  • And just to pile on a bit …

    Mary @ 60

    Thanks for managing to misrepresent both economists AND sociologists. Well done.

  • Re my own comments in #91… now that I’ve re-read it, #1 it is, in fact overly simplisitic and obvious. and #2 It’s not really productive to only describe the problem. As my old boss used to say, “All complaints are welcome as long as they are accompanied by a suggestion.”

    Suggestion: Keep firing away Mr. Obama & Team! Fire back as hard as fired upon. I’m a pascifist, but damnit, this is war! Take every one of these gifts from Hillary and McCain and fire them out there into every ad in every medium possible. I want to see an ad with Hillary doing that Crown Royal shot. 3AM? Really? While Hungover?

    Ok, sorry, for my explosion tonight. Now, I promise, no more frm me ’til June.

  • Civil Disobedience, thank you!

    I hope people enjoy what I put there. I want to delve into issues in-depth. Probably bore most people. ๐Ÿ™‚

    You made my night!

  • Next thing you know, Miz C will be braggin’ that she never had more than a C average in them thar ee-lite schools her parents sent her to, which makes her the best Deciderer…

    Gag me with a spoon… I’m so tired of “leaders” who are pea-cock stupid and proud of it, I could *spit*. There was Walesa in Poland (reason why I couldn’t fully rejoice in Gore’s Nobel Prize; it had been debased long ago)… there was the misery that called itself Dumbya… and now Hillary is doing her best to join the ranks of illiterate assholes (even if she has to pretend). Barf.

  • Concerns I have about Clinton:
    1) Only told part of the truth on China magnet sale agreement her husband made – Why would it be a sale with China if the jobs were supposed to stay inside the US? as she purported.
    2) Using the illegal group “Women for…. ” calling Blacks in NC, and Sidney Blumenthal digging up dirt on Obama as campaign supporters is dirty politics.
    3) Implying that Obama does not have guts to come out with a gas tax plan. He voted for a gas tax holiday in Illinois. It failed. He said he learned that it doesn’t work and wouldn’t do it again. I call that EXPERIENCE.
    4) I believe she is close to Republican in thought and actions. Maybe if you live in Washington too long, you become Washington! I don’t know.

  • I’ve just read this thread, and am genuinely surprised how very few people have risen to Clinton’s defense. Pleasantly surprised, I might add. Even two months ago, her web savvy partisans would have rallied to challenge these comments. I know whereof I speak. I’ve made known my disdain for her presidential ambitions on various blogs for years, beginning with comments posted on the blog of the late, great Steve Gilliard. To knock Hillary was to invite a spirited rebuttal, to say the least.

    I think all but her bitter-end supporters now realize the tide has run out. More to the point, the Supers have largely reached the same conclusion (or so I believe). Her first major blunder with them surely occurred when she made her ill advised “threshold” remark, followed by the silly announcement a few days later that she nonetheless considered Obama VP material. It’s been all downhill for her since with other party pro’s. From the Wright attacks (which was the final straw with Bill Richardson) to this latest gas tax idiocy, she has bled support. And for good reason, too. As someone up-thread noted, she has ran a lousy campaign. And I couldn’t be more pleased.

  • Hillary just stated very clearly on MSNBC’s Morning Joe that “more people have voted for me in primaries and caucuses than my opponent.”

    That’s a BOLD FACED LIE. Even worse, when she says it NO ONE SAYS “whaaa?”

    (banging head on table)

  • @ 84: McCain supports the gas tax holiday. How are those ads of his going to play in November, if the Democratic nominee was against it? The saints of the Democratic party who canโ€™t abide a little good old fashioned pandering risk losing us the electionโ€“again.

    Maybe we should try actually explaining issues to people rather than just assuming that they’re ignorant. Ads that explain the actual economics of the situation and highlight the fact that McCain and Clinton are both trying to use “a little good old-fashioned pandering”.

    I don’t like being pandered to. Neither do most of the people I know. Neither should you.

  • On the brightside of all of this, by the time the dust settles we’ll FINALLY be finished with the Clintons. This is the end of them. Good riddence.

  • JW — it only appears that support for Clinton has declined because people in this group viciously drive away anyone expressing support for Clinton. Her support remains at about 50% of voters, as it has been since the beginning of the primary process.

    Those of you swallowing your own rhetoric about Clinton using Republican memes to fight Obama are ignoring the fact that Obama uses Republican memes to attack Clinton. Does that mean Obama has formed a pact with McCain or other such nonsense?

    Why do you think “undecideds” break for Clinton in primary after primary? When people get a closer look at Obama they see nothing there. Even in states where he runs twice the ads that Clinton does, this happens.

    Clinton is claiming to have won the popular vote on the strength of counting FL and MI. You also get different counts depending on how you count the caucuses — where each caucus vote equates to some number of actual primary voters (had a primary been held instead of a caucus). There, Obama uses just as much “funny math” as Clinton is accused of doing. They are both being self-serving in their counting in order to attract superdelegates. You don’t just accept your own candidate’s count because you like him best, calling the other one a liar. You need to think about what is behind the numbers or you’re just spouting propaganda.

  • Evidently,Miz.Clinton’s duplicity extends tp before she married Bill.Herewith is an interesting article from Hillary’s resume’:N Y POST via Reagan Information Interchange | 8/16/99 | Jerry (Jerome) Zeif

    Hillary Rodham’s 1974 Watergate “Procedures were Ethically Flawed”

    Jerry Zeifman sent us the letter below, which is “based largely on material previously published” in his book, “Without Honor: The impeachment of President Nixon and the Crimes of Camelot.”

    August 16. 1999

    HILLARY’S WATERGATE SCANDAL

    By Jerry Zeifman
    IN December 1974, as general counsel and chief of staff of the House Judiciary Committee, I made a personal evaluation of Hillary Rodham (now Mrs. Clinton), a member of the staff we had gathered for our impeachment inquiry on President Richard Nixon. I decided that I could not recommend her for any future position of public or private trust.

    Why? Hillary’s main duty on our staff has been described by as “establishing the legal procedures to be followed in the course of the inquiry and impeachment.” A number of the procedures she recommended were ethically flawed. And I also concluded that she had violated House and committee rules by disclosing confidential information to unauthorized persons.

    Hillary had conferred personally with me regarding procedural rules. I advised her that Judiciary Committee Chairman Peter Rodino, House Speaker Carl Albert, Majority Leader Tip O’Neill and I had previously agreed not to advocate anything contrary to the rules already adopted and published for that Congress. I quoted Mr. O’Neill’s statement that: “To try to change the rules now would be politically divisive. It would be like trying to change the traditional rules of baseball before a World Series.”

    Hillary assured me that she had not drafted and would not advocate any such rules changes. I soon learned that she had lied: She had already drafted changes, and continued to advocate them.

    In one written legal memorandum, she advocated denying President Nixon representation by counsel. This, though in our then-most-recent prior impeachment proceeding, the committee had afforded the right to counsel to Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas.

    I also informed Hillary that the Douglas impeachment files were available for public inspection in our offices. I later learned that the Douglas files were then removed from our general files without my permission, transferred to the offices of the impeachment inquiry staff, and were no longer accessible to the public.

    The young Ms. Rodham had other bad advice about procedures, arguing that the Judiciary Committee should neither 1) hold any hearings with or take the depositions of any live witnesses, nor 2) conduct any original investigation of atergate, bribery, tax evasion, or any other possible impeachable offense of President Nixon – but to rely instead on prior investigations conducted by other committees and agencies.

    The committee rejected Ms. Rodham’s recommendations: It agreed to allow President Nixon to be represented by counsel and to hold hearings with live witnesses. Hillary then advocated that the official rules of the House be amended to deny members of the committee the right to question witnesses. This unfair recommendation was rejected by the full House. (The committee also vetoed her suggestion that it leave the drafting of the articles of impeachment to her and her fellow special staffers.)

    The recommendations advocated by Hillary were apparently initiated or approved by Yale Law School professor Burke Marshall – in violation of committee and House rules on confidentiality. They were also advocated by her immediate supervisors, Special Counsel John Doar and Senior Associate Special Counsel Bernard Nussbaum, both of whom had worked under Marshall in the Kennedy Justice Department.

    It was not until two months after Nixon’s resignation that I first learned of still another questionable role of Ms. Rodham. On Sept. 26, 1974, Rep. Charles Wiggins, a Republican member of the committee, wrote to ask Chairman Rodino to look into a troubling set of events. That spring, Wiggins and other committee members had asked “that research should be undertaken so as to furnish a standard against which to test the alleged abusive conduct of Richard Nixon.” And, while “no such staff study was made available to the members at any time for their use,” Wiggins had just learned that such a study had been conducted – at committee expense – by a team of professors who completed and filed their reports with the impeachment-inquiry staff well in advance of our public hearings.

    The report was not made available to members of Congress. But after the impeachment-inquiry staff was disbanded, it was published commercially and sold in book stores. Wiggins wrote that he was “especially troubled by the possibility that information deemed essential by some of the members in their discharge of their responsibilities may have been intentionally suppressed by the staff during the course our investigation.”

    On Oct. 3, Rodino wrote back: “Hillary Rodham of the impeachment-inquiry staff coordinated the work. … After the staff received the report it was reviewed by Ms. Rodham, briefly by Mr. Labovitz and Mr. Sack, and by Mr. Doar. The staff did not think the manuscript was useful in its present form.”

    On the charge of willful suppression, he wrote: “That was not the case … The staff did not think the material was usable by the committee in its existing form and had not had time to modify it so it would have practical utility for the members of the committee. I was informed and agreed with the judgment.”

    During my 14-year tenure with the House Judiciary Committee, I had supervisory authority over several hundred staff members. With the exception of Ms. Rodham, Doar and Nussbaum, I recommend all of them for future positions of public and private trust.

    Jerry Zeifman is the author of “Without Honor: The Impeachment of President Nixon and the Crimes of Camelot,” which describes the above matters in more detail. (See http://www.iethical.org/book.htm)

  • 102 “I donโ€™t like being pandered to. Neither do most of the people I know. Neither should you.”

    I’d rather be pandered to than lose. And as I said, the proposal is a symbol of the Democrats being on the side of common people against the oil companies. It goes along with revoking the billions of dollars in subsidies they currently receive, raising CAFE standards on cars, the cap and trade system to fight global warming, 50 billion dollars for energy research, and funding to make low income homes more energy efficient. The tax holiday is nothing compared to these other measures, but some people need concrete evidence that the government cares about them, that they’re not being treated like they don’t count. So no I don’t care about being pandered to, because I care more about what happens in November. In politics the perfect is often the enemy of the good.

  • MY FELLOW “BITTER”, STUPID, WORKING CLASS PEOPLE ๐Ÿ™‚

    If you think like Barack Obama, that WORKING CLASS PEOPLE are just a bunch of “BITTER”!, STUPID, PEASANTS, Cash COWS!, and CANNON FODDER. ๐Ÿ™

    You Might Be An Idiot! ๐Ÿ™‚

    If you think Barack Obama with little or no experience would be better than Hillary Clinton with 35 years experience.

    You Might Be An Idiot! ๐Ÿ™‚

    If you think that Obama with no experience can fix an economy on the verge of collapse better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ๐Ÿ˜‰ husband (Bill Clinton) led the greatest economic expansion, and prosperity in American history.

    You Might Be An Idiot! ๐Ÿ™‚

    If you think that Obama with no experience fighting for universal health care can get it for you better than Hillary Clinton. Who anticipated this current health care crisis back in 1993, and fought a pitched battle against overwhelming odds to get universal health care for all the American people.

    You Might Be An Idiot! ๐Ÿ™‚

    If you think that Obama with no experience can manage, and get us out of two wars better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ๐Ÿ˜‰ husband (Bill Clinton) went to war only when he was convinced that he absolutely had to. Then completed the mission in record time against a nuclear power. AND DID NOT LOSE THE LIFE OF A SINGLE AMERICAN SOLDIER. NOT ONE!

    You Might Be An Idiot! ๐Ÿ™‚

    If you think that Obama with no experience saving the environment is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ๐Ÿ˜‰ husband (Bill Clinton) left office with the greatest amount of environmental cleanup, and protections in American history.

    You Might Be An Idiot! ๐Ÿ™‚

    If you think that Obama with little or no education experience is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ๐Ÿ˜‰ husband (Bill Clinton) made higher education affordable for every American. And created higher job demand and starting salaryโ€™s than they had ever been before or since.

    You Might Be An Idiot! ๐Ÿ™‚

    If you think that Obama with no experience will be better than Hillary Clinton who spent 8 years at the right hand of President Bill Clinton. Who is already on record as one of the greatest Presidents in American history.

    You Might Be An Idiot! ๐Ÿ™‚

    If you think that you can change the way Washington works with pretty speeches from Obama, rather than with the experience, and political expertise of two master politicians ON YOUR SIDE like Hillary and Bill Clinton..

    You Might Be An Idiot! ๐Ÿ™‚

    If you think all those Republicans voting for Obama in the Democratic primaries, and caucuses are doing so because they think he is a stronger Democratic candidate than Hillary Clinton. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Best regards

    jacksmith… Working Class ๐Ÿ™‚

    p.s. You Might Be An Idiot! ๐Ÿ™‚

    If you don’t know that the huge amounts of money funding the Obama campaign to try and defeat Hillary Clinton is coming in from the insurance, and medical industry, that has been ripping you off, and killing you and your children. And denying you, and your loved ones the life saving medical care you needed. All just so they can make more huge immoral profits for them-selves off of your suffering…

    You see, back in 1993 Hillary Clinton had the audacity, and nerve to try and get quality, affordable universal health care for everyone to prevent the suffering and needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of you each year. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Approx. 100,000 of you die each year from medical accidents from a rush to profit by the insurance, and medical industry. Another 120,000 of you die each year from treatable illness that people in other developed countries donโ€™t die from. And I could go on, and on…

    OBAMA AIDE: “WORKING-CLASS VOTERS NOT KEY FOR DEMOCRATS” ๐Ÿ˜ฎ

  • @ 106: In politics the perfect is often the enemy of the good.

    Maybe so, but at which point do you draw the line? If we’re reduced to that simply because it works (in the short term), why should we ever try for anything better?

    I honestly believe that, despite the Democratic Party’s recent problems, that we’re in a strong position here. I think it’s possible to raise the level of discourse in such a way that we can not only inform people about real issues, but also illuminate how badly the current administration has manipulated ignorance.

  • Elitists caw about “principle” and “raising the level of discourse” while working people suffer, and Senator Clinton is the only one interested in helping them while Senator Look How Smart I Am drones on about petty details. If you want to “try for something better,” try putting your support behind the first woman president. That, not foolish preoccupations with facts and likely consequences, is what the Democratic party should be thinking about right now.

  • You know you summed up one of the things that made me glad I switched to Obama (I switched before Hillary began her more egregeous campaign issues largely over my sense Obama would provide a more unifying personality).

    Clinton is smart. Real smart. The problem is she’s taken up the Republican idea of win-at-any-cost and embraced a lot of the worst parts of our politics – on the calculation it will work. However, that calculation misses that it plays against her strengths and reinforces our deep political issues – and she seems unable to comprehend why it isn’t carrying her to a giant victory.

    What she should have done is step down gracefully, backed Obama subtley in public (and helped use her brainpower in private), and she’d have easily gotten a Cabinet position or similar and done some good.

    But smart and stupidity are not opposite ends of a spectrum. They can exist in a pathological harmony.

  • Matt (#80) said: But doesnโ€™t it make your blood boil to be looked down on because you think that factual knowledge might be more important than ideology? To be referred to as an elitist just because you know enough to know that the most popular idea isnโ€™t necessarily the right one?

    (I apologize for the โ€œretardโ€ comment, by the way. Way out of line. But not for the rest of my rant. My wrath in this case is of the righteous variety.)

    Actually, we’re probably 98% on the same page about a desire to have the values of factual knowledge given greater weight, as they are supposed to be in academia.

    As far as the “retard” comment goes, I’ve been called much worse. You’re off the hook. ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Mary and Matt: Obviously, I disagree with you both (see #100). It must be tough being a Clinton supporter, and to have watched her piss away the formidable advantages her campaign initially brought to the table. At least in the Kerry-Bush race, the shock of defeat was a sudden one.

  • @ 114: It must be tough being a Clinton supporter

    Couldn’t tell you; I’m rooting for Obama. ๐Ÿ™‚

  • @ 114: It must be tough being a Clinton supporter

    Actually, now I’m curious. At what point did you think I was a Clinton supporter? I think I’m going to have to come up with a more distinctive name in case there are other Matts floating around. I’m the temperamental one.

  • Anybody read Matt Taibbi’s article in Rolling Stone “Jesus Made Me Puke”?
    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/20278737/jesus_made_me_puke

    Matt chronicles his undercover experiences at McCain’s honored endorser and spiritual advisor, Pastor John Hagee’s megachurch. He describes one retreat where the leader performs a sort of exorcism and casts out the various demons that live in the bodies of the faithful. The people in the retreat literally vomit them out. Here’s a great quote: “In the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, I cast out the demon of the intellect!” Retch!

    I think Hillary may have puked up the demon “intellect” and what we now get is her gas tax policy.

  • I don’t think Krugman will mind her comments. He’ll rationalize them away as being a political calculation, a necessary short-term “sacrifice” of her principles she had to make to get votes so that she can go back to being a progressive. Problem is, if she wins by slamming the elites, firing a gun, and promoting tax cuts as solutions, she gains voters who want that agenda. So she’ll keep at it, because they will be her only fans.

  • Comments are closed.